To advertise on this site

Certified Charter Accountants in Marple

Author Topic: Moving to Marple  (Read 520 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JMC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 406
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 03:52:08 PM »
I also may be wrong but I'm fairly sure that I remember a private members bill by a Lib Dem MP (who's name I can't recall) going through the house of Lords recently. The objective being to have this liability abolished.

The Warwickshire couple that somebody mentioned were the Marchbanks. About 10 years ago they were given a bill by their local church for £10,000 for chancel repair. They offered to pay on the condition that this completely ended any future liability. The church refused to do this and a legal battle ensued which the Marchbanks lost and ended up with a liability with legal costs of £360.00.

I've just remembered the MP, it was Eric Lubbock who is Baron somebody or other. It should all be on the internet.

What else? Oh yeah, Chancel liabilities have to be applied for by the church in question until this happens they are not recorded by the land registry so they wouldn't necessarily show on any property deeds. 

I appreciate that none of this is absolutely conclusive but I hope that it helps. 
     I

You are right but wasn't the case much more expensive for the couple.  Eg church demanded £100,000 and now they also owe £360,000 legal fees. Huge huge sums. They offered the land back to the church but the church declined.

Seems a silly system these days. Many church PCC were encouraged to find potential rectors and register by the deadline.  The Church of England also has a FAQ on their homepage.

s186

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2016, 02:40:35 PM »
Found some more information.   It was assumed that purchasers of properties after 13 October 2013 would only be bound by a chancel repair liability if a notice of the liability was lodged by a Parochial Church Council and  registered at HM Land Registry before 13 October 2013 or there is reference to a liability in the title deeds of unregistered land.

https://support.landregistry.gov.uk/landregistry/topics/chancel-repair-liability-is-it-binding.


hollins

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 02:22:56 PM »
No news of whether it got a second reading.

I think this might give the current status for the passage of the bill:
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/chancelrepairs.html

I suspect some short-term insurance will probably cost a lot less than conveyancying fees, particularly as, in Marple, any potential liability is likely to be spread over a large number of properties.

Howard

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 743
    • Personal Blog
Howard

Hoffnung

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 11:40:48 AM »
I also may be wrong but I'm fairly sure that I remember a private members bill by a Lib Dem MP (who's name I can't recall) going through the house of Lords recently. The objective being to have this liability abolished.

The Warwickshire couple that somebody mentioned were the Marchbanks. About 10 years ago they were given a bill by their local church for £10,000 for chancel repair. They offered to pay on the condition that this completely ended any future liability. The church refused to do this and a legal battle ensued which the Marchbanks lost and ended up with a liability with legal costs of £360.00.

I've just remembered the MP, it was Eric Lubbock who is Baron somebody or other. It should all be on the internet.

What else? Oh yeah, Chancel liabilities have to be applied for by the church in question until this happens they are not recorded by the land registry so they wouldn't necessarily show on any property deeds. 

I appreciate that none of this is absolutely conclusive but I hope that it helps. 
     

corium

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 10:08:16 AM »
If I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, I think there was a flurry of activity c 5/6 years ago because churches had to identify & resister any potential liabilities or lose the right to claim them, this is why searches now include this aspect where at one time they didn't. I'll see if I can find an article

Snowball

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 08:10:51 AM »
I also live close to this postcode and moved here a couple of years ago. Our Solicitor spotted the potential liability and we took out insurance to cover the risk. I can't remember how much we paid but I know it wasn't a great deal in the bigger scheme of things.

admin

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5028
    • The Marple Website
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 05:57:04 AM »
That's right, we live just a little further down Woodville Drive and have never heard of such a thing.

It wasn't raised as an issue when we purchased in 1989 and we've never had a bill from the church but I suppose those things doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist.

How can you tell? I have the full deeds and can't see anything in those. How would it be identified?
Mark Whittaker

The Marple Website

Howard

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 743
    • Personal Blog
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2016, 11:32:42 PM »
Well I know there there are several people on this forum that are quite close to that postcode; me for one, and I believe Mark is as well (pinging @admin).

My house is much older than anything around Woodville drive and I don't recall anything like that coming up in the search. However, It might be that the solicitor that @s186 is using is much more thorough than the one I used 16 years ago. It would be very interesting to find out.
Howard

John Ellis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 10:32:58 PM »
This is a bit of an over-simplification of a long and complicated story going back at least to the 12th century, but here goes! Because church buildings have always needed maintenance and repair no less than any other sort and repairs inevitably cost money, during the middle ages in some parts of Europe the custom became established that the parishioners paid for the maintenance and repair of the nave of the church and the parish priest - or in certain cases cases the monastic order which provided the priest - paid for repairs to the chancel - a sort of division of responsibility.

I'm speculating now, but All Saints, Marple, although it isn't mediaeval, was built in the late 16th century as a "chapelry" or local daughter church so that local people didn't have to travel into Stockport to worship. It may well be that the right to certain tithes (a sort of church tax paid in kind) and a land grant to enable the priest to either farm himself or rent out his land (the  priest's "glebe") was provided for the sustenance of the priest-in-charge in exactly the same way as had long been the custom and practice for the priests in charge of the major parish churches. And the same traditional responsibiities would have been applied: the parishioners had the responsibility for the nave and the priest had to maintain the chancel.

And the fly in the ointment in cases like this is that if you buy a house built on land that was once part of the land provided to sustain the priest, you may well inherit his obligation to repair and maintain the chancel. Hopefully, lots of houses will have been built on what was originally the priest's glebe, so you won't be bearing the entire cost of any repairs on your own. But the fact is that parishes rarely go to all the hassle of chasing up this responsibility unless they've become totally desperate because they're confronted with absolutely enormous repair bills - galloping dry rot, roof collapsing, &c. So even if a lot of people share the responsibility, the contribution required can be fairly eye-watering.

So you need to hope that your solicitor's well clued up on the pre-purchase search process. And insurance is probably a good idea!
Rhydd i bob meddwl ei farn, ac i bob barn ei llafar ...

s186

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 05:38:42 PM »
I've lived here pretty much all my life and I've never heard of it. Whilst you might not want to give us the exact address of where you are planning to move, would you be able to give the postcode of the property?

My postcode is SK6 7QR Howard. I was reading about this online and a lot of people don't know there property has this on.

s186

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2016, 05:34:53 PM »
Thanks for information, looks like were going to have to take this insurance out then just incase. Will have to try and find out if our house is on the chancel repair liability list.

simonesaffron

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 802
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 04:37:39 PM »
Despite this being an old liability going back to the reign of Henry VIII, it is not to be disregarded. In simple terms, it is a liability for church repairs. It is also a routine component in any good Solicitors 'search' equation when dealing with a property conveyance. Your solicitor has obviously been doing the job properly.

When I say that it is not to be disregarded there is the real example of the Warwickshire couple who in 2003 inherited a farmhouse and were promptly billed £100,000.00 for repairs to their parish's medieval church.

This is an extreme and rare example of course (aren't they always) and for a relatively small sum on your house insurance you should be able to protect yourself from such a rare occurrence in the event. 

Hope this helps.   

Howard

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 743
    • Personal Blog
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 03:27:08 PM »
I've lived here pretty much all my life and I've never heard of it. Whilst you might not want to give us the exact address of where you are planning to move, would you be able to give the postcode of the property?
Howard

My login is Henrietta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 844
Re: Moving to Marple
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 02:41:48 PM »
We currently in the process of moving into Marple, we have had a Chancel Check done and it is saying our address is located within the historical boundary of the tithe district within a parish which continues to have a potential chancel repair liability. Has anyone else had this Chancel check done? We never heard anything like this before, were trying to find out whether our property is liable or not and not having much luck either
If you Google "the historical boundary of the tithe district within a parish which continues to have a potential chancel repair liability, you will find some more information about this.

As far as I know Marple falls in the parishes of St Martin's, Low Marple and All Saints, Marple. I think (repeat "I think") that All Saints Church has glebeland but not sure about St Martin's. There are also St Mary's RC church in Marple Bridge and Holy Spirit RC church in Marple. I don't now if or how the RC churches feature in the chancel repair liability rules.

Hope this helps.
Don't look for the light at the end of the tunnel -  stomp along there and turn the bl**dy thing on yourself!