Chadwick Street Car Park

[My login is Henrietta]

Lisa I sympathise with you but

The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the village.

the one planning issue that both applications will be judged on is whether they are inside or outside the District Centre. Chadwick Street is within, Hibbert lane outside.
As I see it the choice is Chadwick Street or Chadwick St & Hibbert Lane, might be an idea to let members vote on this. I know not very representative but at least it would gauge if there is any opposition on the forum to Chadwick St.

PS Which Supermarket it is on Chadwick St. is irrelevant in planning law.

Incidentally, a question I asked about the Hibbert Lane issue was parried by a Chadwick Street diversion and it was clear from earwigging at what the speaker was saying to others, that it was being used as an avoidance technique. The speaker was a college rep so what Chadwick Street had to do with him I don't know.

[rsh]

The sorting office site alone is more than big enough for what they call a "little Waitrose".

As an example there's one in Alderley Edge (featured in this article) which would fit there neatly, keeping all the existing parking and not imposing on Chadwick St at all.



Of course, whether the developers will be as modest as that with their plans is another matter, but hopefully they'll see there's no need or sense to build right up against the houses there.

[Lisa Oldham]

I do apologise... please consider my comment rephrased as....

"The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the TOWN. It makes it harder to fight, but never impossible!! "

not quite sure how that affects this and the points I am trying to make here, people have the same rights regardless of where they live!!

[Lisa Oldham]

The car park isn't a wall, isnt a neon sign isnt blocking the light .

right to light... big consideration!

It could be that something small ish is planned and their "view" is not affected, and if that is the case they may not decide to object.  However its probably a big thing and their comfort and enjoyment of their homes and the value of their property will be massively effected.

[alan@marple]

 The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the village. It makes it harder to fight, but never impossible!!

I also agree with Chicken Lady
Marple is not a village. it  has a population of 23,000, which is larger than Buxton.

I agree Marple is nothing like a village, it just sounds "tweet". How about "The Marple Urbanization"  "Marple Bridge Village" would be appropriate for the other side of the bridge.

[jethroh65]

Chadwick Street residents are the unfortunate collateral damage in all this. People living near the Ridge College are used to living next to a busy establishment with a lot of comings and goings from morning to evening, and will be protected/shielded from any new building by space and trees. None of this can be said for Chadwick Street residents who only overlook a car park currently with no room for such shielding.

The above statement is not quite correct, re:- comings and goings, the traffic from the college is mainly vehicles entering the car park at approximately 9 am and leaving at 3pm, weekdays only during term times. This is a time when the majority of people are at work anyway.
Where as Chadwick street is where the sorting office is situated and also a car park which serves the town centre 7 days a week.
If you look at the plans, a couple of trees are not going to shield the houses from the Big neon ASDA sign which is separated from Hibbert Lane by the width of a pedestrian footpath.
Yes it is no less unfortunate for the residents of Chadwick Street to have their outlook and routine disrupted by a new supermarket, but a do feel that that Chadwick st is already in a in a town environment whereas Hibbert Lane is clearly a residential area.

[Dave]

Victor's scenario is interesting but I'm not entirely convinced, simply because it assumes that Chadwick Street is a credible alternative site to Hibbert Lane - but in reality it is much smaller.

What is also interesting is that he raises the issue of the 'sequential test'.  For those who, like me, are a bit vague about this, here's a link to the relevant government document on Planning for Town Centres:   http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/147399.pdf

Chapter 2, para 2.44 is the bit you need:

c) Apply the Sequential Approach to Site Selection
2.44 A sequential approach should be applied in selecting appropriate sites for allocation within
the centres where identified need is to be met. All options in the centre (including, where
necessary, the extension of the centre) should be thoroughly assessed before less central
sites are considered for development for main town centre uses. The sequential approach
requires that locations are considered in the following order:
 first, locations in appropriate existing centres where suitable sites or buildings for
conversion are, or are likely to become, available within the development plan document
period, taking account of an appropriate scale of development in relation to the role and
function of the centre; and then
 edge-of-centre locations, with preference given to sites that are or will be well-connected
to the centre; and then
 out-of-centre sites, with preference given to sites which are or will be well served by a
choice of means of transport and which are close to the centre and have a high
likelihood of forming links with the centre.
In considering alternative sites with similar locational characteristics in terms of the
sequential approach, and having regard to the strategic objectives for the network and
hierarchy of town centres set out in their development plan documents, local planning
authorities should give weight to those locations that best serve the needs of deprived areas. [my bold type]

If Chadwick Street is deemed to be big enough for a proper 25,000 sq.ft supermarket, then the above seems to suggest that it would be the council's preferred site.  However, if, as I suspect, it's too small, Hibbert Lane comes in to the frame as an available 'edge of centre' location.  And that's where the bit in bold at the end of the above quote comes in, because the Hibbert Lane site is within easy reach of the Cross Lane area, which is officially described as a deprived area (see p3 of this document):   
https://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/IAS/Custom/Resources/JSNA_Key_themes_for_Marple_and_Werneth.pdf

[Henry_]

Lisa I sympathise with you but

The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the village.

the one planning issue that both applications will be judged on is whether they are inside or outside the District Centre. Chadwick Street is within, Hibbert lane outside.
As I see it the choice is Chadwick Street or Chadwick St & Hibbert Lane, might be an idea to let members vote on this. I know not very representative but at least it would gauge if there is any opposition on the forum to Chadwick St.

PS Which Supermarket it is on Chadwick St. is irrelevant in planning law.

Victor - if only planning is that simple. Position is only one of the many planning policies that the commitee will consider when making their decision. The only 'known' so far is that Hibbert Lane doesn't meet Stockport's policy for the location of retail and the Council wil therefore seek to refuse on this ground.

As for Chadwick Street, I have a lot of reservations at to whether it is a suitable for a new foodstore. Access and car parking being at the forefront of this on a practical level, but the impacts on surrounding local residents (who I suspect in real terms will be physically closer than at Hibbert Lane) are also a real consideration and I think Lisa has a point. As I've noted before, maybe MIA could 'save' the residents of Hibbert Lane, but they may have simply transferd these woes to those on Chadwick Street and its surrounds.

Chadwick Street residents are the unfortunate collateral damage in all this. People living near the Ridge College are used to living next to a busy establishment with a lot of comings and goings from morning to evening, and will be protected/shielded from any new building by space and trees. None of this can be said for Chadwick Street residents who only overlook a car park currently with no room for such shielding.

[Victor M]

Unfortunately until they put on a "Consultation Event",  make a public announcement or submit a planning application I don't think there is.

[hollins]

Is there any way to see precisely what Kirkland Developments intend to do with this site? Presumably they must have worked up something, as they have become the "preferred developer" and there were several other bids. I assume it wasn't entirely on the basis of most money offered ...

They might not even be intending to install a supermarket.

[Victor M]

Victor - if only planning is that simple.

Unfortunately Planning decisions are that simple. Once the college started to discuss selling the Hibbert lane site to Walmart, and at that point their consultants would have spoken to SMBC's planning dept., they took the lid of Pandora's box. A likely scenario is:-

College's consultants talk to SMBC planners.
1 SMBC planners look to see if Walmart application would pass the "Sequential Test", and decide it would.

2 SMBC planners try to see if there is other land within the District Centre that could accommodate a Supermarket thereby thawting Walmart's application.

3 Chadwick St. option ascertained as land possibly available.

4 Chadwick St. marketed as potential development site.

5 Preferred Developer appointed for Chadwick St.

Hence the position we are in now. All as a result of the College's decision not to try and discuss this with our elected representative's before making any decision.

Please note these are only my thoughts on how this whole thing developed, I haven't got access to any more privileged information than any other member of the general public

[Belly]

Lisa I sympathise with you but

The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the village.

the one planning issue that both applications will be judged on is whether they are inside or outside the District Centre. Chadwick Street is within, Hibbert lane outside.
As I see it the choice is Chadwick Street or Chadwick St & Hibbert Lane, might be an idea to let members vote on this. I know not very representative but at least it would gauge if there is any opposition on the forum to Chadwick St.

PS Which Supermarket it is on Chadwick St. is irrelevant in planning law.

Victor - if only planning is that simple. Position is only one of the many planning policies that the commitee will consider when making their decision. The only 'known' so far is that Hibbert Lane doesn't meet Stockport's policy for the location of retail and the Council wil therefore seek to refuse on this ground.

As for Chadwick Street, I have a lot of reservations at to whether it is a suitable for a new foodstore. Access and car parking being at the forefront of this on a practical level, but the impacts on surrounding local residents (who I suspect in real terms will be physically closer than at Hibbert Lane) are also a real consideration and I think Lisa has a point. As I've noted before, maybe MIA could 'save' the residents of Hibbert Lane, but they may have simply transferd these woes to those on Chadwick Street and its surrounds.

[Victor M]

Lisa I sympathise with you but

The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the village.

the one planning issue that both applications will be judged on is whether they are inside or outside the District Centre. Chadwick Street is within, Hibbert lane outside.
As I see it the choice is Chadwick Street or Chadwick St & Hibbert Lane, might be an idea to let members vote on this. I know not very representative but at least it would gauge if there is any opposition on the forum to Chadwick St.

PS Which Supermarket it is on Chadwick St. is irrelevant in planning law.

[wheels]

Agreed Chic Lady. Marple is a suburb of Stockport. Village don't make me laugh where do they think they are Prestbury

[chicken lady]

  The decision is based on many planning considerations, not just its position within the village. It makes it harder to fight, but never impossible!!

Marple is not a village. it  has a population of 23,000, which is larger than Buxton.