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Author Topic: Marple - Manchester tram-train case study  (Read 8876 times)
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Dave
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2012, 05:20:22 PM »

Some very interesting ideas there, re connecting Marple with Stockport by tram, but that doesn't mean the Marple - Manchester proposals set out here aren't good too - they are!  Marplerambler writes: 
the only obvious change for the passenger would be a change in rolling stock, yellow trams designed with few seats primarily to carry as many standing passengers as possible 

......but there are more benefits than that.  The improved frequency is an obvious one, but a major factor will also be the prospect of being able to take a direct tram from, say, Marple and travel straight through to a city centre tram stop - say St Peter's Square, for example.  Also to step off a tram at Piccadilly Gardens and then step on to one to Bury or Altrincham.  And if it really does turn out to be self-financing, with no subsidy required, then it's a no-brainer! 
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Belly
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WWW
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2012, 05:55:13 PM »

Future extension of the Hazel Grove bypass to Bredbury at a future date will incorporate a junction with the A626 making the road journey to Stockport even worse.

Not strictly true I think. My understanding was that the Hazel Grove bypass would go under the A626 - with the two roads joined together by a short link road with 'at-grade' junctions on each route.

What Marple railways really need is the relatively small investment to deliver the 'Brinnington Curve' to link the Bredbury Line to the Stockport - Stalybridge line. Delivery of this link (across unbuilt on fields just to the north of Reddish Vale) would give the town a direct rail link to Stockport - whilst not the most direct route, it would certainly be preferebale to a bus of car journey. 
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Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...
Duke Fame
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 09:40:55 PM »



Dave, this is a Mysty eyed world where we can go all the way from Marple to Bury, I mean, that's what dreams are made of.

But can't we do that already? We get a train to manky & then travel to lots of spots, why waste money on something we already have?
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Steptoe and Son
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 09:21:46 AM »

We'll all chip in and buy Duke Fame a Penny Farthing, then he can cycle round in his own little Victoriana while the rest of us take advantage of the investment and improvements that are always necessary to any infrastructure. Grin
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 02:15:18 PM »

We'll all chip in and buy Duke Fame a Penny Farthing, then he can cycle round in his own little Victoriana while the rest of us take advantage of the investment and improvements that are always necessary to any infrastructure. Grin

You know, a bit of private investment would be great. There seems to be a fewgood ideas which will pay for themselves. Why not set up a company to take over the franchise and create a private tram way. No need to pander to unions, overblown quangos like GMPTA and we can all be incentivised to make sure it works well.

 
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rsh
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2012, 04:35:07 PM »

A little more lateral thinking is required here. Does Marple need a tram service to Manchester via Bredbury or Guide Bridge?  The answer to this is no.

But you need to think about the line as less solely focused on serving Marple. Marple may not be crying out for trams, in your opinion, but stations such as Reddish North, Ryder Brow, Belle Vue, and so on are all massively underused because the service terminating at Piccadilly makes it worthless. Converting it to a tram-style service and running across the city centre, especially to somewhere like Salford Quays, would immediately bring a massive increase in custom from these stations. It's not all about us.

The report suggests that the majority of the 60% boost in passengers would come from these under-served inner city areas, as people are drawn by the frequency of the tram and the fact that it actually goes right through the city. For Marple, this would give the trickle-down effect that increased patronage from the inner-city areas means being able to justify a better, higher frequency service all the way along the line to cope with the new demand. We all benefit.

I agree the Stockport problem would be far better to solve, but perhaps we should see tram-train conversion of the existing line as the precursor to that. Stockport MBC appear to be (very slowly) progressing the case for a line from Stockport Bus Station, through Portwood and across to Bredbury, roughly following the old Tiviot Dale line/current M60. It'd be a rather expensive build, but having this ready-and-waiting converted tram-train line from Bredbury to Marple for it to connect onto could just move things along. I doubt otherwise a tram to Stockport would ever come before a tram-train to Manchester.

As it stands, the line to Manchester has to take priority because it's currently operated by life-expired diesel rolling stock that, as well as being clapped out, is going to be falling foul of new disability regulations come 2019. They could order new diesel units (not going to happen), or wait until better spare units become available from electrification projects elsewhere, or they could just go ahead and finally convert our line to tram operation - increasing income, removing the subsidy and ultimately saving taxpayers' money through a little investment.
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2012, 07:41:44 PM »

A little more lateral thinking is required here. Does Marple need a tram service to Manchester via Bredbury or Guide Bridge?  The answer to this is no.

But you need to think about the line as less solely focused on serving Marple. Marple may not be crying out for trams, in your opinion, but stations such as Reddish North, Ryder Brow, Belle Vue, and so on are all massively underused because the service terminating at Piccadilly makes it worthless. Converting it to a tram-style service and running across the city centre, especially to somewhere like Salford Quays, would immediately bring a massive increase in custom from these stations. It's not all about us.

The report suggests that the majority of the 60% boost in passengers would come from these under-served inner city areas, as people are drawn by the frequency of the tram and the fact that it actually goes right through the city. For Marple, this would give the trickle-down effect that increased patronage from the inner-city areas means being able to justify a better, higher frequency service all the way along the line to cope with the new demand. We all benefit.

I agree the Stockport problem would be far better to solve, but perhaps we should see tram-train conversion of the existing line as the precursor to that. Stockport MBC appear to be (very slowly) progressing the case for a line from Stockport Bus Station, through Portwood and across to Bredbury, roughly following the old Tiviot Dale line/current M60. It'd be a rather expensive build, but having this ready-and-waiting converted tram-train line from Bredbury to Marple for it to connect onto could just move things along. I doubt otherwise a tram to Stockport would ever come before a tram-train to Manchester.

As it stands, the line to Manchester has to take priority because it's currently operated by life-expired diesel rolling stock that, as well as being clapped out, is going to be falling foul of new disability regulations come 2019. They could order new diesel units (not going to happen), or wait until better spare units become available from electrification projects elsewhere, or they could just go ahead and finally convert our line to tram operation - increasing income, removing the subsidy and ultimately saving taxpayers' money through a little investment.

I sort of accept the idea that a tram running on the train line is a solution. The cheapest solution surely must be to put a tram link, BR terminus and huge multi storey car park between Ashburys & Ardwick, that takes out all local traffic from Picadily and links the likes of Stockport, to the tram sytem. The only new lines need to be laid parallel to Gt ancoats to link in to the bus & car park at Suedehill. That means we'd have trams running Marple to Ardwick to Victoria and Stockport to Ardiwick to Victoria, similarly from Glossop , Guide bridge and StalyBridge. In fact Our Sheffield line can start at Marple, Main Sheffield line start at Stockport and Leeds line start at Stalybridge. The latter could then up it's frequency to every 15 mins which is very much needed.
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Dave
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 08:04:29 PM »

A lot of very good sense there from rsh. But we should be grateful that Duke isn't reponsible for planning public transport - stick to riding the bike, Dukey ;-)
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Heritage
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2012, 08:46:39 PM »

"....adoption of Metrolink fares and ticketing..."

That's a significant change for Marple.....the days of the cheapie evening return into town will be gone!!
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2012, 08:52:35 PM »

"....adoption of Metrolink fares and ticketing..."

That's a significant change for Marple.....the days of the cheapie evening return into town will be gone!!

Good point, When I've used the tram, I've been stunned by the price - basically i've jumped the fare every time.
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2012, 08:53:17 PM »

A lot of very good sense there from rsh. But we should be grateful that Duke isn't reponsible for planning public transport - stick to riding the bike, Dukey ;-)

Cheeky, so where's the problem with my brilliant plan?
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Barbara
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2012, 09:25:27 PM »

'When I've used the tram, I've been stunned by the price - basically i've jumped the fare every time' 

Well done, very public spirited.  Good job we don't all think like that!!  And watch out - the inspectors were on the last two trams I have used.
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2012, 09:35:10 PM »

'When I've used the tram, I've been stunned by the price - basically i've jumped the fare every time' 

Well done, very public spirited.  Good job we don't all think like that!!  And watch out - the inspectors were on the last two trams I have used.

I'm not public spirited at all, the public have plenty of my money, I'm not giving away more than I need to.
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Dave
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2012, 10:37:47 AM »

where's the problem with my brilliant plan?

Well it's hard to know where to start, Duke.  But let's just say that if the trains from Manchester to Leeds and Sheffield started at Stalybridge and Marple respectively, hardly anyone would use them and the services would soon disappear.  Btw, there is already a 15 minute service between Manchester and Leeds. 

As for this
When I've used the tram, I've been stunned by the price - basically i've jumped the fare every time.

... if it's a joke, ho ho.  If it's a confession, you should be ashamed of yourself.   Embarrassed
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Heritage
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2012, 04:13:09 PM »

Jumping train fares is against the law, simple as that. Same principle applies to supporting local shops I guess? Okay to not pay for the fruit and veg because someone else will pay for theirs? That's how prices go up....and...hey presto! End of local shop. And that's without the criminal record.... Huh
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