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Author Topic: TRAINS  (Read 8066 times)
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rsh
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« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2012, 08:16:40 PM »

New report here (PDF) from the TfGM Committee about proposed timetable changes from December 2012.

Key point for Marple is that the second hourly Rose Hill service (xx.51 departure) will now go via the Hyde loop, rather than the far faster, direct Bredbury route as present. Obviously this benefits Woodley, Hyde Central, Hyde North with a twice-hourly service, but means both trains from Rose Hill will now take at least 32 minutes in each direction (vs. a best of 22 mins from Marple!), putting the station at a considerable disadvantage. (I don't know about anyone else, but I do begin to despair when the Pacer is chugging towards Hyde and you seem to be getting further away from Beetham Tower...)

TfGM have also negotiated for trains from Rose Hill to call additionally at Gorton, rather than those from Hadfield/Glossop as present, which will only further increase journey times. Their thinking being that Hadfield/Glossop is a busy route and this will speed up their journey times! I can understand these ideas: Rose Hill trains are often emptier and so stopping at more stations would make better use of the service. But it will also make it a very unattractive service to those living towards the end of the line. I sense many passengers switching straight back to Marple.

Several points raised here have been noted - such as the uneven scheduling of departures, requirement for extra Rose Hill evening services - but as you can read below, very little progress will be made on any of those issues. Sunday services from Marple aren't mentioned at all.

Quote
Manchester – Marple – New Mills – Sheffield (Piccadilly Eastern Lines)

In December 2011, Members approved a preferred option for this corridor which would divert the second train from Rose Hill to operate via Hyde in the off-peak. At present the second Rose Hill services operates express between Manchester and Romiley, in both directions, running non-stop through the busy stations at Bredbury and Reddish North.

The TfGM Rail Policy (approved in 2011) states that stations with less than 25,000 passengers per annum should have an intermittent service. Therefore, it is also proposed to change stopping patterns at Belle Vue (patronage 12,000 in 2009/10), the least used station on the line.

Members should note that Belle Vue is linked with Manchester city centre by a number of high frequency bus services. Strines (9, 000 in 2009/10) currently has a train every two hours. It is proposed to maintain this frequency, but to balance it with a 2 hourly service at Belle Vue.

The proposed changes will:

• Maintain frequencies at the busiest stations on the route.
• Improve the balance of times at Romiley each hour.
• Extend the journey time for one service per hour to/from Romiley by some 5 minutes, but maintain or improve other journey times.
• Provide a more balanced 2tph service from Rose Hill via Hyde
• Increase the off-peak frequency at Hyde Central, an important local centre in Tameside, to 2 tph.
• Increase the frequency at Guide Bridge (patronage 211,000 in 2009/10) to 4ph.
• Allow Rose Hill services to serve Gorton, in lieu of trains to Hadfield and Glossop, reducing journey times and crowding on that busy route.
• Reduce journey times and so boost patronage on some trains on the line via Bredbury and Reddish North.

Quote
Manchester – Marple – New Mills – Sheffield (Goyt Valley)

In the context of the wider revision of Piccadilly Eastern (Goyt Valley) services and the option of a 2 trains per hour (tph) service over the Hyde Loop a review of some calling patterns is justified. Some examples of issues to be addressed (but not all) are outlined below, together with some specific service ideas.

'Wider Marple'. The Marple/Rose Hill areas would probably benefit and patronage could be enhanced if there was wider spacing between Rose Hill and Marple departures. Therefore, if a train is missed at Marple or Rose Hill there should always be time to get to the other station. The difficulties of pathing Piccadilly Eastern (Goyt Valley) services into and out of a busy Manchester Piccadilly terminus has prevented an idea timetable being developed for the route.

Balance of calls at busier stations. The present calling pattern of trains has gaps in frequency at Reddish North (patronage 110,000 pa) and Rose Hill in the peaks. It has not been possible to resolve all the issues for December 2012, but TfGM officers will continue to work with Northern Rail to try to resolve the issues.

Gorton stops – With the introduction of 2 tph via Hyde, it is proposed that the Rose Hill services should stop at Gorton. This will open-up some travel opportunities and will to reduce journey times on the busier Glossop and Hadfield trains. Both should further boost patronage.

Two Trains per hour to New Mills. TfGM Officers working with Northern Rail were able to achieve 2tph to/from New Mills Monday to Friday, at no additional cost. TfGM Officers, working with Derbyshire Country Council, the Hop valley & High Peak Community Rail Partnership (CRP), the South East Manchester CRP and Northern Rail continue to investigate the potential for 2 tph Monday to Saturday. At present the Saturday service would require subsidy.

Early Evening Trains to/from Rose Hill. There is a gap in Rose Hill departures from Piccadilly of 2 hours from 1836 until 2036. TfGM is investigating ways to close this gap.

Later Evening Trains. It has been suggested that there is a strong need for a late evening service to Rose Hill via Hyde loop train. Whilst not part of the changes proposed for December 2012, TfGM Officers are further investigating the issue of later evening trains via Hyde.

Less well used Stations - Of the 14 stations served by Goyt Valley services, 6 have less than 50 passengers per day. The TfGM Rail Policy (approved in 2011) states that stations
with less than 25,000 passengers per annum should have an intermittent service.

Ryder Brow and Belle Vue. Belle Vue and Ryder Brow share catchment areas, and so there is justification for reviewing how best to serve the area by rail .Belle Vue is well served by very frequent buses to/from Manchester City Centre. Ryder Brow is less well served, and is in a regeneration area. There are no proposals to alter the pattern of calls at Ryder Brow, but recognising the Rail Policy criteria, it is proposed that the service at Belle Vue be 2-hourly.

Strines. This train is presently served by a train every two hours. Given the Rail Policy criteria it is proposed that this frequency be retained, and that the station be served by
alternative services to/from New Mills.

Fairfield. – There are plans for some 600 houses within 1 mile or so of the station. The developments are slow at present, but there are already 100 houses on the former station
goods yard. These are a mix of houses, but include 3/4 bedroom properties aimed at professionals. Therefore, it is proposed that Fairfield will retain a 1tph service.

Early morning services from Chinley. At present two of the trains starting from New Mills in the early morning (0613 and 0636) operate as empty stock from Stockport. TfGM Officers are working with Northern Rail to investigate the scope to start these trains from Chinley.
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Steptoe and Son
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« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2012, 09:09:22 PM »

As a daily commuter to Manchester, and a user of both Marple stations, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to post this info, it's very useful. Smiley
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hollins
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« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2012, 09:11:40 AM »

As a daily commuter from Marple (and occasional returnee to Rose Hill) I'm not impressed with the comment
"Therefore, if a train is missed at Marple or Rose Hill there should always be time to get to the other station."
On foot it is a good 20-25 minutes between stations. We don't all take cars to the station.

As far as I can see, during the main commuter times there are enough scheduled services - they just aren't long enough (and at times, not reliable). In the late evening and on Sundays there simply aren't enough services.
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Dave
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« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2012, 12:08:08 PM »

Thanks rsh, that's really useful and interesting.  But as rsh says, there's little to celebrate there as far as Marple is concerned, and as hollins says, the major problems (poor evening and Sunday services) are not addressed at all.   Sad

And as hollins also pointed out a few weeks ago on this thread, the extra carriages that appeared in December seem to be randomly used - there's no consistency from one day to the next as to which train they are on, although the 07.59 from Marple does seem to be reliably a four-carriage train at the moment. But there are still some overcrowded two-carriage services, and half empty four-carriage services - such as the 18.06 from Piccadilly to Rose Hill which I used the other day. 

Incidentally, I see from the latest LibDem newsletter that our councillors are claiming the credit for the extra rolling stock.  They may have had something to do with it for all we know, but we also know that Northern Rail were doing their best to get additional carriages anyway.  And when you consider the poor quality of the clapped-out cast-offs that we have inherited from other train companies, it's not a lot for the councilors to get excited about!   Roll Eyes
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hollins
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« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2012, 01:08:03 PM »

Quote

Early Evening Trains to/from Rose Hill. There is a gap in Rose Hill departures from Piccadilly of 2 hours from 1836 until 2036. TfGM is investigating ways to close this gap.

Well it's not exactly rocket science, is it?!
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2012, 11:43:37 PM »

Quote

Early Evening Trains to/from Rose Hill. There is a gap in Rose Hill departures from Piccadilly of 2 hours from 1836 until 2036. TfGM is investigating ways to close this gap.

Well it's not exactly rocket science, is it?!

Where does the over-staffed Quango GMTE become yet another Quango TFGM?
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2012, 10:51:23 AM »

Quote

Early Evening Trains to/from Rose Hill. There is a gap in Rose Hill departures from Piccadilly of 2 hours from 1836 until 2036. TfGM is investigating ways to close this gap.

Well it's not exactly rocket science, is it?!

I'd have thought not, I don't see why Rose Hill doesn't close and introduce a shuttle bus from Marple station
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ringi
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« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2012, 12:23:45 PM »

A few points…

Once the cycle bridge is in to Romiley, I will consider switching from Rose Hilll to Romiley.

Way can’t there be a bus between the two Maple stations timed for people that miss a train that is free for all travel card holders?  I don’t understand way the travel cards up north don’t work on all buses when all of the London ones do….

My wife would not be happy getting the train to Maple in the evening then a bus to Rose Hill unless the train remained in the station until the bus comes and that the train staff extorted passages to the bus.

A mad ideal… If the train lines were converted to a guided bus (http://www.thebusway.info/), then the guided bus could run on the lines to Maple, the hop onto the road to Rose Hill and run back along the lines from Rose Hill.  The same could be done with a tram by adding lines to the road.
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bluebelly
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« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »

simple answer privertization
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2012, 04:15:40 PM »

A few points…

Once the cycle bridge is in to Romiley, I will consider switching from Rose Hilll to Romiley.

Way can’t there be a bus between the two Maple stations timed for people that miss a train that is free for all travel card holders?  I don’t understand way the travel cards up north don’t work on all buses when all of the London ones do….

My wife would not be happy getting the train to Maple in the evening then a bus to Rose Hill unless the train remained in the station until the bus comes and that the train staff extorted passages to the bus.

A mad ideal… If the train lines were converted to a guided bus (http://www.thebusway.info/), then the guided bus could run on the lines to Maple, the hop onto the road to Rose Hill and run back along the lines from Rose Hill.  The same could be done with a tram by adding lines to the road.


I like that solution.

Guided buses were all very well when  I lived in Leeds and they were a cheap alternative to trams. The problem is, rather than give them dedicated routes away from the road, they remove a full lane of existing road for use exclusively for guided buses and this creates congestion.


Guided Buses an suburban train routes would be a lot cheaper and a better use of space than trams and trains.
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2012, 04:16:56 PM »

simple answer privertization

A full privatisation and deregulation would be the answer. New services would natuarally be created to fit the needs of passengers.

Unlikely to happen.
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amazon
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« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2012, 04:52:28 PM »

Quote

Early Evening Trains to/from Rose Hill. There is a gap in Rose Hill departures from Piccadilly of 2 hours from 1836 until 2036. TfGM is investigating ways to close this gap.

Well it's not exactly rocket science, is it?!

I'd have thought not, I don't see why Rose Hill doesn't close and introduce a shuttle bus from Marple station



Cost how often would it be used mostly morning and evening ,
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