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Author Topic: Alternative site  (Read 8697 times)
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Steptoe and Son
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2011, 01:27:54 PM »

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That is abit over the top, I thought Tina made a good point. Didn't see it as belittling anybody.

That's your opinion JMC.  I don't see Tina making any point apart from using the possible closure of the sorting office as a way of attempting to belittle the efforts of those she happens to disagree with.
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Tina
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 02:56:39 PM »

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That is abit over the top, I thought Tina made a good point. Didn't see it as belittling anybody.

That's your opinion JMC.  I don't see Tina making any point apart from using the possible closure of the sorting office as a way of attempting to belittle the efforts of those she happens to disagree with.


I'm not trying to belittle anyone!
I can just see that there will be job losses there and don't see that site as a suitable alternative to Hibbert Lane.
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Steptoe and Son
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 08:23:28 PM »

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my fear is that certain people will look the other way and not fight for the sorting office! which is a shame! Sad

Why the comment about 'certain people' then? I just don't see any need to cast aspersions
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danny
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« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 09:37:55 PM »

I'm not trying to belittle anyone!
I can just see that there will be job losses there and don't see that site as a suitable alternative to Hibbert Lane.
Just like there will be job losses at the marple campus, and Alot of people see the sorting office as a suitable alternative.
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Tina
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2011, 10:33:59 PM »

I'm not trying to belittle anyone!
I can just see that there will be job losses there and don't see that site as a suitable alternative to Hibbert Lane.
Just like there will be job losses at the marple campus, and Alot of people see the sorting office as a suitable alternative.


is it really suitable though? what about the traffic to get onto the site? chadwick street can't take the traffic, the service rd behind the shops is not suitable, all the traffic would then be sent out towards the round about at littlewoods, so the traffic arguement you all have for Hibbert Lane will be worse from the sorting office site. its like 1 rule for 1 and 1 for another, give a valued arguement for it and I will gladly listen to it.

I don't belittle people steptoe, stop trying to stir trouble because I'm not playing!
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Steptoe and Son
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« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2011, 06:35:10 AM »

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my fear is that certain people will look the other way and not fight for the sorting office! which is a shame! Sad

I'm trying nothing of the sort Tina, but I think you are playing with your comment about 'certain people'.  I do agree with your comments about the sorting office site.  The problem is that I don't see SMBC giving up the new carpark so I just don't see a major retailer being that interested in that location unless it's for an 'express' type store which I think most agree, sell goods at inflated prices.  My opinion is that MIA/those against should have stuck to opposing the Hibbert Lane proposal...getting drawn in to offering up alternative sites just confuses issues.
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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2011, 07:18:02 AM »

My opinion is that MIA/those against should have stuck to opposing the Hibbert Lane proposal...getting drawn in to offering up alternative sites just confuses issues.

That is exactly what MIA is doing - you are confusing the discussions on here with the MIA position. It is actually the council who are putting forward the Chadwick Street site a sequential alternative (which appears to have been bubbling away for many years). Marple in Action are simply opposed to a Supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site, and that's it as I understand it. People should read the Marple in Action web site for the MIA position, not the forum.
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Mark Whittaker

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Belly
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2011, 08:08:24 AM »

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my fear is that certain people will look the other way and not fight for the sorting office! which is a shame! Sad
...getting drawn in to offering up alternative sites just confuses issues.

Yes but the problem is that any planning inquiry will focus strongly on the alternative site issue. If the supermarket developer can demonstrate that there is no realistic alternative site in Marple for a supermarket, then this will put the Hibbert Lane sit in the box seat. Especially if both sides effectively agree that there is a demand / need for a new supermarket within the town.

MIA do need to understand this. The campaign line of "no new supermarket at Hibbert Lane, but somewhere else is potentially ok", is fine, but will be rigorously tested at planning appeal. There will need to be an answer to the question,  "if not at Hibbert Lane then where?". If the answer is not realistic then the case could well be lost.
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hollins
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2011, 12:25:40 PM »

I find nowhere on the MIA website where they state where else they would countenance a supermarket. Please could they state very precisely and clearly exactly where in Marple they would build another suitably-sized supermarket.

Please note that with Marple having a population bigger than Buxton, Hazel Grove or Bredbury and with a very substantial proportion of that population driving outside the town with the primary purpose (i.e. not on the way back from work) of supermarket shopping we do not want yet another "convenience" store.

At the moment Marple appears to be fast becoming a town of coffee shops, fast-food restaurants and charity shops.
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Howard
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2011, 01:58:12 PM »

I find nowhere on the MIA website where they state where else they would countenance a supermarket. Please could they state very precisely and clearly exactly where in Marple they would build another suitably-sized supermarket.

The only information on their page (http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm) that I can find reads:

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Marple in Action is NOT against another supermarket opening in Marple, but think that it should:

    Be of a suitable size to serve the population of Marple.

    Be located in the town centre, where it would be more appropriate and benefit our local shops.

    We feel that there must be better uses of the land that would benefit the whole community of Marple, such as affordable housing for young families or retired people, a community centre and/or health centre, more facilities for the youth of Marple.

They do not offer an alternative location. The only location which has been floated at all, and that was by Stockport Council in an email to the College, is Chadwick Street which is next on their list for any development in the town centre.

I do think this is a weak point in MIA's campaign. There is definitely a demand in the town for another supermarket but currently they are not offering any alternative. They may argue that it is not their place to offer alternatives but I think it is. Just saying "no" leaves them open to the accusations of NIMBYism which are so often thrown at them.
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Howard
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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2011, 03:46:51 PM »

I find nowhere on the MIA website where they state where else they would countenance a supermarket. Please could they state very precisely and clearly exactly where in Marple they would build another suitably-sized supermarket.

Please note that with Marple having a population bigger than Buxton, Hazel Grove or Bredbury and with a very substantial proportion of that population driving outside the town with the primary purpose (i.e. not on the way back from work) of supermarket shopping we do not want yet another "convenience" store.

At the moment Marple appears to be fast becoming a town of coffee shops, fast-food restaurants and charity shops.
  five charity shops when the one opens next to coop travel three banks one is closing .no wonder people go out of the area to shop .
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JMC
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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2011, 08:07:04 PM »


I do think this is a weak point in MIA's campaign. There is definitely a demand in the town for another supermarket but currently they are not offering any alternative. They may argue that it is not their place to offer alternatives but I think it is. Just saying "no" leaves them open to the accusations of NIMBYism which are so often thrown at them.

Very good point.
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JMC
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« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2011, 08:12:54 PM »


I think it's important to note that this (decline of local shops) seems to be happening even without another supermarket. I think it's due to the wider societal changes such as more people at work in the daytime and internet shopping. Big out of town stores suit the needs to get it all quick and in one place at a time that suits. Local shops cannot really compete with that unless they are certain types of shops. The nature of our economy is that competition means some thrive where others fail and many cannot compete with the big players. You cannot really blame people for going where it is cheapest, particularly in a recession.
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Lisa Oldham
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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2011, 09:30:58 AM »

In my opinion it is not MIA s job to find a suitable site within the retail development area.. thats what the supermarket developer should have done in the first place and pays their agents top whack to do.  The fact is they've gone outside the area, knowing full well that it is against stockport council planning policy and will certainly get refused but still pushed forward with the plan.   Personally I think lots of us are playing in to the hands of the supermarket here....
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Belly
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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2011, 09:56:01 AM »

In my opinion it is not MIA s job to find a suitable site within the retail development area.. thats what the supermarket developer should have done in the first place and pays their agents top whack to do.  The fact is they've gone outside the area, knowing full well that it is against stockport council planning policy and will certainly get refused but still pushed forward with the plan.   Personally I think lots of us are playing in to the hands of the supermarket here....

Yes but the problem is Lisa, is that MIA have to some extent already 'appear' to be conceding that there is the demand / need for a new store, so the argument moves on to where? If SMBC have drawn such a tight cordon round the main retail area that there is no realistic site for a new store within it, the developers can make the case that the lines should be redrawn or that there are special circumstancs to ignore SMBC's own policy and allow an 'out of centre' store. Such an approach is very common.

My problem is that if SMBC are actively sugesting that Chadwick Street is the alternative, there is a lot about that site that struggles to stack up. Its impact's would be very, very similar to Hibbert Lane and in many cases worse.

I'm not suggesting that MIA need to actively promote an alternative site for a store, but at the very least they will need to work with SMBC be confident that there are other relaistic options, when all things are considered, that makes them more attractive than Hibbert Lane. Of course there is no need to reveal this on this message board, keeping your powder dry is all part of the planning game!  Wink
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