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Marple Sixth Form College: ambitious to be an outstanding college within its community, and for its community.

Poll

Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?

I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 211011 times)

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Steptoe and Son

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1838 on: August 27, 2012, 11:12:18 AM »
Unionman, very good posting, I just wish some people would actually join the debate on the excellent issues you raised and not nit pick odd words used. Welcome to the debate.

Odd word make up the whole and are important. Don't devalue their importance.

lol

wheels

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1837 on: August 26, 2012, 02:26:36 PM »
Unionman, very good posting, I just wish some people would actually join the debate on the excellent issues you raised and not nit pick odd words used. Welcome to the debate.

Odd word make up the whole and are important. Don't devalue their importance.

amazon

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1836 on: August 26, 2012, 01:31:43 PM »
As a former employee of CAMSFC may I make a few observations?

The Corporation does indeed have a duty to maximise revenue from the disposal of college assets, but not to the extent that they need to subscribe to the abuse of financial power by ASDA so as to, in effect, over-rule local planning policies by expensive appeals. CAMSFC could simply have had a competitive bidding process for the land in question, subject to planning permission within the current planning policy, that is, for residential use. This would have discharged the legal obligations of the Corporation.

The Marple campus does have a real feel of serving local students, from Marple, Offerton, Bredbury, New Mills, Hayfield, Glossop, Chapel and other villages and towns nearby. It is local without being parochial and it is a shame that the current Senior Managers of CAMSFC do not seem to have a feel for this, nor for the responsibilities that it entails, especially to residents of Marple. Nevertheless they and the Corporation should get credit for a committment to maintaining a campus in Marple.

However my real concerns are not about the Hibbert Lane site, but about Buxton lane:

•   It is a very very wet site.
•   There is at least one filled in watercourse that runs across the site.
•   Flooding of part of the car park is a regular occurrance.
•   When, following the Disability Discrimination Act, a lift was constructed at the end of the tower block, it was subject to delays in construction, due to flooding of the excavated shaft.
•   The Tower Block, which, in the artist’s depiction of the new construction, has a central place, has a limited life expectancy. It is quite an old building for a tall block in continual educational use, and was the subject of remedial work a few years ago. A request to see the professional advice that CAMSFC has received, over the past decade, about the structural integrity and life expectancy of the block, would be a fruitful line of enquiry, I would think.

Has there been any proper expenditure by CAMSFC on a substantial, in-depth, civil engineer’s investigation of the suitability of the Buxton Lane site for the heavy duty construction, and use, that is anticipated by the college?

There is little point in obtaining funds from a redevelopment of Hibbert Lane if the new college buildings that are planned cannot be built to time and cost, or in a way that allows sustainable use into the future.

Even if it can be constructed, it will require expert project management, and I doubt that the college has the expertise to do in house. There is a distinct possibility that, if the development is allowed, that there will be delays and costly over-runs. A general question relating to whether the SMT of the college have done a financial risk assessment of project delays would be helpful.

It is easy to forget that even though it has two campuses the college is a single corporate entity. The Cheadle Estate, although not without issues, is in relatively good shape. The quality of the Marple Estate is poor and deteriorating. The Corporation relies heavily on the Principal,  Deputy and the Director of Finance and Resources, yet I fear that none has a good appreciation of the history of the estates, certainly none was in post when the old Margaret Danyers College had a tower block of its own, at the end of North Downs Road, Cheadle Hulme, which served as a point of entry to the campus, indeed the gateway is still in place.

This block was condemned about 1997/8, and subsequently razed. The new build followed. The new Cheadle Campus was eventually fenced in for security reasons and the old Downs Road site was effectively abandoned and allowed to return to green land, (although I think the hard base of the site remains to this day, below a thin covering of vegetation). Indeed I believe that its dis-use may have been a condition of the new build at Cheadle.

If so it needs to be reconsidered. The footprint of the old Downs Road site is quite large, embracing an old car park, roundabout, service road, the space occupied by the block, plus sports hall and refectory. There was also a miniature railway behind. The value of this as a residential development site could be substantial: It isn’t geniune green land, and a residential development would have little or no adverse impact on the area. Furthermore, as it is now completely seperate from the main campus at Cheadle, development could take place without any impact on teaching and learning.

The combined value of the Downs Road site and Hibbert Lane as  residential development sites could be quite close to the £13M offered by ASDA, perhaps even in excess.

No-one likes the prospect of development on their doorstep, but developing the Downs Road site is clearly the lesser of two evils, compared to ASDA driving a coach and horses through SMBC development policy, and drastically altering the make up Marple village. The college and SMBC should be requested, as a matter of urgency, to re-evaluate the development status of the Downs Road site. For those with a sense of history the prospect of an unused asset at Cheadle, dating back to the days of Magaret Danyers College, being used to help ensure the future survival of a modern Marple Campus is a nice touch!


Are you a member of Mia  'group .

Victor M

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1835 on: August 26, 2012, 01:18:26 PM »
Unionman, very good posting, I just wish some people would actually join the debate on the excellent issues you raised and not nit pick odd words used. Welcome to the debate.

wheels

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1834 on: August 26, 2012, 12:53:04 PM »
It read well until he refered to Marple as a village.I would have thought Unionman would have known of Marples industrial past and would have known it was never a village.

simonesaffron

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1833 on: August 26, 2012, 12:38:47 PM »
Interesting letter Unionman but is seems to me that you are a little bit like MIA...whistling in the dark.

Unionman

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1832 on: August 26, 2012, 11:39:19 AM »
As a former employee of CAMSFC may I make a few observations?

The Corporation does indeed have a duty to maximise revenue from the disposal of college assets, but not to the extent that they need to subscribe to the abuse of financial power by ASDA so as to, in effect, over-rule local planning policies by expensive appeals. CAMSFC could simply have had a competitive bidding process for the land in question, subject to planning permission within the current planning policy, that is, for residential use. This would have discharged the legal obligations of the Corporation.

The Marple campus does have a real feel of serving local students, from Marple, Offerton, Bredbury, New Mills, Hayfield, Glossop, Chapel and other villages and towns nearby. It is local without being parochial and it is a shame that the current Senior Managers of CAMSFC do not seem to have a feel for this, nor for the responsibilities that it entails, especially to residents of Marple. Nevertheless they and the Corporation should get credit for a committment to maintaining a campus in Marple.

However my real concerns are not about the Hibbert Lane site, but about Buxton lane:

•   It is a very very wet site.
•   There is at least one filled in watercourse that runs across the site.
•   Flooding of part of the car park is a regular occurrance.
•   When, following the Disability Discrimination Act, a lift was constructed at the end of the tower block, it was subject to delays in construction, due to flooding of the excavated shaft.
•   The Tower Block, which, in the artist’s depiction of the new construction, has a central place, has a limited life expectancy. It is quite an old building for a tall block in continual educational use, and was the subject of remedial work a few years ago. A request to see the professional advice that CAMSFC has received, over the past decade, about the structural integrity and life expectancy of the block, would be a fruitful line of enquiry, I would think.

Has there been any proper expenditure by CAMSFC on a substantial, in-depth, civil engineer’s investigation of the suitability of the Buxton Lane site for the heavy duty construction, and use, that is anticipated by the college?

There is little point in obtaining funds from a redevelopment of Hibbert Lane if the new college buildings that are planned cannot be built to time and cost, or in a way that allows sustainable use into the future.

Even if it can be constructed, it will require expert project management, and I doubt that the college has the expertise to do in house. There is a distinct possibility that, if the development is allowed, that there will be delays and costly over-runs. A general question relating to whether the SMT of the college have done a financial risk assessment of project delays would be helpful.

It is easy to forget that even though it has two campuses the college is a single corporate entity. The Cheadle Estate, although not without issues, is in relatively good shape. The quality of the Marple Estate is poor and deteriorating. The Corporation relies heavily on the Principal,  Deputy and the Director of Finance and Resources, yet I fear that none has a good appreciation of the history of the estates, certainly none was in post when the old Margaret Danyers College had a tower block of its own, at the end of North Downs Road, Cheadle Hulme, which served as a point of entry to the campus, indeed the gateway is still in place.

This block was condemned about 1997/8, and subsequently razed. The new build followed. The new Cheadle Campus was eventually fenced in for security reasons and the old Downs Road site was effectively abandoned and allowed to return to green land, (although I think the hard base of the site remains to this day, below a thin covering of vegetation). Indeed I believe that its dis-use may have been a condition of the new build at Cheadle.

If so it needs to be reconsidered. The footprint of the old Downs Road site is quite large, embracing an old car park, roundabout, service road, the space occupied by the block, plus sports hall and refectory. There was also a miniature railway behind. The value of this as a residential development site could be substantial: It isn’t geniune green land, and a residential development would have little or no adverse impact on the area. Furthermore, as it is now completely seperate from the main campus at Cheadle, development could take place without any impact on teaching and learning.

The combined value of the Downs Road site and Hibbert Lane as  residential development sites could be quite close to the £13M offered by ASDA, perhaps even in excess.

No-one likes the prospect of development on their doorstep, but developing the Downs Road site is clearly the lesser of two evils, compared to ASDA driving a coach and horses through SMBC development policy, and drastically altering the make up Marple village. The college and SMBC should be requested, as a matter of urgency, to re-evaluate the development status of the Downs Road site. For those with a sense of history the prospect of an unused asset at Cheadle, dating back to the days of Magaret Danyers College, being used to help ensure the future survival of a modern Marple Campus is a nice touch!

Harry

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1831 on: August 22, 2012, 01:30:40 PM »
I really must congratulate MIA on their inconsistency. It is second to none.

In their latest newsletter (http://www.marple-in-action.org.uk/MiA-newsletter7.pdf), which is only 2 sides of A4, they manage to refer to the college as:

Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College
CAMSFC
Cheadle and Marple VI Form College
CAMSCF
Marple & Cheadle 6th Form College

The correct name is Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College, which wasn't used at all, or an abbreviation of CAMSFC (used once, well done). Very sloppy.
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hollins

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1830 on: August 13, 2012, 10:06:54 PM »
Lets say the college does complete the deal with asda, and moves ahead with its plans to renovate the buxton lane campus. Would ASDA still allow the college to use the hibbert lane site whilst the improvement works are taking place on the buxton lane site? or would the college use porta-cabins as classrooms?

I asked this question of one of the College's representative at the consultation weekend. The college's building works on Buxton Lane would be completed before Asda started work on the Hibbert Lane site. Teaching of students would not be disrupted.

danny

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1829 on: August 13, 2012, 09:42:05 PM »
This doesn't really "follow on" with the current topic of discussion, but I'll ask it anyway...
Lets say the college does complete the deal with asda, and moves ahead with its plans to renovate the buxton lane campus. Would ASDA still allow the college to use the hibbert lane site whilst the improvement works are taking place on the buxton lane site? or would the college use porta-cabins as classrooms?
I know no-one here can give a "accurate" answer, but I figured it would be worth a shot, seeing as though I can't ask a member of college staff until I start my second year ;)

Thanks,
Dan :)
Whats that coming over the hill? Is it a monster?
Kinda... its a monster with a towel on its head!

simonesaffron

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1828 on: August 08, 2012, 11:40:44 AM »
Some of the discussion on this thread regarding predetermination seems to be based on the rules applied by the courts before the introduction of the Localism Act 2011. Section 25 of the Act, which came in to force earlier this year under the terms of a commencement order, introduced changes to the common law but with what result seems to be debatable. Councillors clearly have greater freedom to express views than before but there are certainly barristers who still see scope for future litigation on the issue.

Quite right Alstan,

There is most definately a pre-determnination case post localism to be answered somewhere. Perhaps Marple will provide the test case

Andy

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1827 on: August 08, 2012, 11:28:46 AM »
Have just listened to this radio 4 programme at work, there are a number of parralls to be drawn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lhj0s


wheels

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1826 on: August 08, 2012, 10:48:46 AM »
Indeed I think Cllr Derbyshire has already explained that in her reply

Franz

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1825 on: August 08, 2012, 10:06:02 AM »
Some of the discussion on this thread regarding predetermination seems to be based on the rules applied by the courts before the introduction of the Localism Act 2011. Section 25 of the Act, which came in to force earlier this year under the terms of a commencement order, introduced changes to the common law but with what result seems to be debatable. Councillors clearly have greater freedom to express views than before but there are certainly barristers who still see scope for future litigation on the issue.

simonesaffron

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1824 on: August 07, 2012, 02:58:43 PM »
Hello Lisa,

That is exactly what everybody is saying, why did they make such a declaration thus pre-determining their view ?

 I'm not sure what you mean about Councillors giving ..."advice on planning apps"... Councillors know little more about planning than you or I actually do, that isn't their job, that's the job of the professional Planning Officer. Councillors wouldn't give you advice on planning apps, (apart from about the process) they are just not qualified to do so.

If you take our current Councillors: Alexander was/is is a Civil Servant, Bispham also, Candler a local Gov Officer, Dowling a journalist, Ingham a Marketing Person and Wright a shopkeeper, what do any of them know about Planning?     

Councillors can comment on a planning application, in some cases they even have the power to grant or reject even if it is against the professional advice of their own planning officers. The issue with the ASDA is that no planning app has yet been received.

If you look on the Area Committee website you will see example after example going back year after year whereupon Councillors have sat in judgement on all shapes and sizes of planning applications. If you go to the AC you will see Councillors pass comment on all applications that come before them. They will only say that they can't comment if they have to declare a pecuniary interest which represents a conflict.

Lisa, polite question:

How many Area Committee Meetings have you been to in the last 5 years ?