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Poll

Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?

I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 203612 times)

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Lisa Oldham

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1823 on: August 07, 2012, 09:26:31 AM »
I agree wheels that it is not right for MIA to push councillors to declare which sde they are on.. however I also try and remember that they are just a bunch of ordinary people who might not know that councillors cant state which side they are on in Stockport.

What I do question is why some councillors have as  they cant really now be part of the decision making process without the potential of ASDA turning round and saying they were biased from the start.  Councillors have ALWAYS known this so why have they spoken out?

They know the fine line they balance on..

As to supporting and advising on planning apps.  Can you show me where they have done this?  They can maybe tell you about the process but in my experience they turn up to meetings, blow some hot air then claim they just cant get involved because of the legal position. Whether they are allowed to support more fully is maybe a different matter, Ive certainly been told the past that their hands are tied.




wheels

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1822 on: August 06, 2012, 11:32:55 PM »
I agree that councillors on the planning committees cannot comment either way about any planning application.  However, unless its changed recently, Stockport is unusual in the fact that ALL councillors sit on the local area planning committee.  This in effect means that no councillor can EVER support any voter in anything relating to planning applications in their area at all.  This means anything.. waste dump, housing, shopping app, my extension.  It also means they in effect they cannot really advise or help local campaigns.  I have always found this very frustrating and the councillors I feel can in some situations use this to their "advantage". As this is well known by all councillors, and as some of the councillors that have used this particular argument with me in the past have actually spoken out before they should about this potential app, I have always been suspicious of their reasons for doing so(speaking out).   

In most other areas there are some councillors that do not sit on the committees all the time, therefore they can stand with their residents and offer not only their personal support but their help and expertise.

I am not sure I agree Lisa I think that there is a world of difference in an elected member coming out against an application and basically excluding themselves from the decision making process and helping and assisting a community group and the situation we have here where members have aired a view even though there is no application on which to comment.

Thus those who have come out against ASAD are saying there is no application which they would ever be willing to support. This leaves the door open for any applicant to say they never got a fair hearing as elected members approached the situation with a closed mind. To say no matter what application goes in I am against it is very different to saying I have consider x application and I am against it. Thus in forcing and bullying members into declaring their view in advance of an planning application MiA are handing a golden opportunity to ASDA

simonesaffron

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1821 on: August 06, 2012, 05:40:32 PM »
I think you slightly miss the point I was  making which was that to come out against an application before it has been submitted is evidence for the applicant that they did not have a fair hearing and will weigh heavily in any appeal.

Therefore for MiA to demand an oath of loyalty from councillor is counter productive.

I think Cllr Derbyshire makes the point extremely well.

Wheels, I don't think that I have missed the point, it has been made many times before on this thread, it is called "pre-determination". It is about prejudicing your view before the facts are known. The question is why have three of our Councillors done it. Why did Councillors Candler, Alexander and Wright do it ? Whilst Councillors; Dowling, Bispham and Ingham appear not to have.

As for MIA being "counter-productive"  well no change there then. In fairness we couldn't really expect MIA to know about pre-determination at the time, they are after all hapless amateurs that have made wrong move after wrong move. In fact it has been said several times on this site that with enemies like MIA, ASDA has got all the friends it needs. Councillors though are weaned on this stuff, they are told about pre-determination the day they take office. Martin Candler will have known he was doing this when he made his statement, yet he still made it, so will Cllrs Alexander and Wright yet they still made theirs. One can only ponder as to their reasons for doing it.

Perhaps MIA should ask them?           

simonesaffron

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1820 on: August 06, 2012, 05:17:40 PM »
I agree that councillors on the planning committees cannot comment either way about any planning application.  However, unless its changed recently, Stockport is unusual in the fact that ALL councillors sit on the local area planning committee.  This in effect means that no councillor can EVER support any voter in anything relating to planning applications in their area at all.  This means anything.. waste dump, housing, shopping app, my extension.  It also means they in effect they cannot really advise or help local campaigns.  I have always found this very frustrating and the councillors I feel can in some situations use this to their "advantage". As this is well known by all councillors, and as some of the councillors that have used this particular argument with me in the past have actually spoken out before they should about this potential app, I have always been suspicious of their reasons for doing so(speaking out).   

In most other areas there are some councillors that do not sit on the committees all the time, therefore they can stand with their residents and offer not only their personal support but their help and expertise.

Lisa,

This doesn't make any sense at all.

Marple Councillors sit on Area Committee every month and regularly support/refuse recommendations for Marple voters who have put in planning applications for all kinds of work.

Lisa Oldham

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1819 on: August 06, 2012, 04:02:30 PM »
I agree that councillors on the planning committees cannot comment either way about any planning application.  However, unless its changed recently, Stockport is unusual in the fact that ALL councillors sit on the local area planning committee.  This in effect means that no councillor can EVER support any voter in anything relating to planning applications in their area at all.  This means anything.. waste dump, housing, shopping app, my extension.  It also means they in effect they cannot really advise or help local campaigns.  I have always found this very frustrating and the councillors I feel can in some situations use this to their "advantage". As this is well known by all councillors, and as some of the councillors that have used this particular argument with me in the past have actually spoken out before they should about this potential app, I have always been suspicious of their reasons for doing so(speaking out).   

In most other areas there are some councillors that do not sit on the committees all the time, therefore they can stand with their residents and offer not only their personal support but their help and expertise.

wheels

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1818 on: August 06, 2012, 03:23:11 PM »
I think you slightly miss the point I was  making which was that to come out against an application before it has been submitted is evidence for the applicant that they did not have a fair hearing and will weigh heavily in any appeal.

Therefore for MiA to demand an oath of loyalty from councillor is counter productive.

I think Cllr Derbyshire makes the point extremely well.

simonesaffron

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1817 on: August 06, 2012, 02:41:20 PM »
I see Admin has posted just about the most sensible response there has been to this from Cllr Derbyshire Leader of the Council. She makes the sound point that Councillors coming out for or against before a planning application is even lodged might be grounds for calling for a judical review.

Oh that the Marple Councillors had such sense rather than jumping in bed with what they consider to be side which will get them elected.

Equally MiAdemanding that Councillors commit themselves in advance of a planning application is good news for ASDA


Hello Wheels,

We must be fair here all Councillors did not jump into bed. Councillors Bispham, Dowling and Ingham have never uttered a sentence on the subject, I expect quite deliberately.

you are of course quite right all politicians will say whatever they feel people want to hear in order for them to be elected/re-elected. The point is do they mean it ? Councillor Alexander has spoken out against the development because of "traffic issues" and there is no doubt that there are traffic issues so I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say her concerns are genuine. Cllr Candler has some cock-eyed reason to do with Marple College being gifted the land by John Major in 1992 for educational purposes. What has 1992 and John Major got to do with a supermarket in Marple in 2012 ? It's common knowledge that Candler was hectored by MIA and that he caved in so I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. Cllr Wright just seems to agree with everything that MIA say.

As for the other three, I heard a story that Cllr Bispham was saying in the Royal Scot that if Asda fund a new swimming pool then he's for them. However I wasn't actually there myself so it could just be another story, let's face it there are enough of them about.  Just to add more speculation this is what I now think will actually happen

1/ Imminently Asda and CAMSFC will submit a joint enabling planning application. They will say that they will refurbish the College first and that once that is complete they will build their store.

2/ SMBC will recommend to reject their application on the basis that an out of district store is against their planning policy.

3/ Recommendation will come before AC whereupon swimming pool excepted all local Councillors will speak agaainst it for their own variety of reasons.

4/ Application will go to Planning Committee. IMHO, this one is not straightforward because of local political implications. If they pass it, game, set and match to ASDA the easy way. If they don't...

5/ ASDA appeal to Planning Inspectors. SMBC will say that it is against their planning policy, ASDA will say that it is only 400metres from the edge of town, that they are ensuring the College's survival, that they will provide 200 jobs and that they are meeting the supermarket needs of a town of 23,000 + residents.

6/ ASDA will hire the best legal team money can buy whereas SMBC will hire the cheapest.

Who is your money on?

There is just one possibility that could stop it...maybe - Chadwick Street.               

wheels

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1816 on: August 05, 2012, 10:36:01 PM »
I see Admin has posted just about the most sensible response there has been to this from Cllr Derbyshire Leader of the Council. She makes the sound point that Councillors coming out for or against before a planning application is even lodged might be grounds for calling for a judical review.

Oh that the Marple Councillors had such sense rather than jumping in bed with what they consider to be side which will get them elected.

Equally MiAdemanding that Councillors commit themselves in advance of a planning application is good news for ASDA

amazon

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1815 on: August 05, 2012, 06:27:37 PM »
I see from the 'Latest News' thread that Cllr Candler believes that 'There is a widespread consensus in the area that says that we don’t need a large supermarket outside the district centre.' Where does he get that information from? Has he conducted a proper opinion survey? Or does he think that a noisy campaign is the same as a 'widespread consensus? Surely such an experienced local councillor would not make such a simple mistake. Would they....?

Mr candler likes to be on anybody's side that he thinks will win .but not this time .

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1814 on: August 05, 2012, 03:30:26 PM »
I see from the 'Latest News' thread that Cllr Candler believes that 'There is a widespread consensus in the area that says that we don’t need a large supermarket outside the district centre.' Where does he get that information from? Has he conducted a proper opinion survey? Or does he think that a noisy campaign is the same as a 'widespread consensus? Surely such an experienced local councillor would not make such a simple mistake. Would they....?

Bowden Guy

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1813 on: July 14, 2012, 09:05:03 PM »
MIA do not speak for "the community". I am a member of the Marple "community" and they do not speak for me,

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1812 on: July 14, 2012, 06:10:45 PM »
Ms Cassady continually refused MIA requests to speak with the community.
MIA is the community
MIA always has had communication with the college

 OK Miss M, I'm sure I'll work it out eventually.......   ;)
yes do try !
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1811 on: July 14, 2012, 06:07:26 PM »
Ms Cassady continually refused MIA requests to speak with the community.
MIA is the community
MIA always has had communication with the college

 OK Miss M, I'm sure I'll work it out eventually.......   ;)

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1810 on: July 14, 2012, 05:47:14 PM »
Now, maybe, but certainly not 'always', otherwise there would have been no posts like this.  
Hi Duke
We have tried and tried to speak with Ms Cassidy but she is refusing to answer emails, letters, invitations to speak with the community and messages continually ignores messages given  via her PA joy Pippin  

Oh Dave how come you always try to mis interpret things.   MIA always has had communication with the college, I personally still do and I am sure other MIA members do also.   What the quote you quoted says is, and still exists, for whatever reason, is Ms Cassady continually refused MIA requests to speak with the community.  Maybe I don't have your gift of the written word so please try to be mindful when attempting to discredit forum members it's just so...... Not nice .
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1809 on: July 14, 2012, 05:14:54 PM »
Now, maybe, but certainly not 'always', otherwise there would have been no posts like this. 
Hi Duke
We have tried and tried to speak with Ms Cassidy but she is refusing to answer emails, letters, invitations to speak with the community and messages continually ignores messages given  via her PA joy Pippin