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Poll
Question: Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?
I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

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Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 133136 times)
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finetimefontaine
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« Reply #1380 on: February 22, 2012, 06:45:01 PM »

Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

However, I am sure that you agree that this is only one component in the equation. Much of what you say after that (although I do agree with your bit about the co-op) even the bit about the co-op is based on balance of probability or to be pedantic - balance of improbability which of course is just another name for speculation.

The people of Marple have been told from the onset and progressively by their elders and betters as far as CMSFC is concerned this and that etc etc will not be allowed ... nevertheless much of what was deemed to be "not be allowed" has come to pass. The latest declaration of "not be allowed" is planning permission for a supermarket by the Council. Well forgive my cynicism!

Anyway I go of track as I know that YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

Just a few more minutes of you time.  What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission?

     
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Bowden Guy
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« Reply #1381 on: February 22, 2012, 06:52:37 PM »

How can having an enhanced Buxton Lane site possibly be at a "cost" to young people? Why is the number of sites an issue at all? Surely it is the quality of provision, and the quality of the facilities, that really matter?
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Miss Marple
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« Reply #1382 on: February 22, 2012, 06:59:13 PM »

Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

However, I am sure that you agree that this is only one component in the equation. Much of what you say after that (although I do agree with your bit about the co-op) even the bit about the co-op is based on balance of probability or to be pedantic - balance of improbability which of course is just another name for speculation.
The people of Marple have been told from the onset and progressively by their elders and betters as far as CMSFC is concerned this and that etc etc will not be allowed ... nevertheless much of what was deemed to be "not be allowed" has come to pass. The latest declaration of "not be allowed" is planning permission for a supermarket by the Council. Well forgive my cynicism!

Anyway I go of track as I know that YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

Just a few more minutes of you time.  What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission

     
And do you really believe that the community believe the hype ? And believe everything we are told by the town hall suits ?   You could not be more wrong, the community is watching and if any good has ever come out of the supermarket issue, it is that gone are the days when deals were done behind closed doors. This has been a wake up call for the community and will hopefully allow us to have consultation on any other future changes which directly effect us !
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BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!
finetimefontaine
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« Reply #1383 on: February 22, 2012, 07:32:51 PM »

Miss Marple,


I don't really understand your last posting and obviously you don't really understand mine. Apologies for not explaining it better.

What "hype" is this that you refer to?

When you say "you could not be more wrong" to whom do you address this remark? Surely not to me as that is my point exactly ...I DON'T BELIEVE...that's what ..."excuse my cynicism"... infers. 

I have no idea what the community believe - I have only discussed the issue with a very tiny percentage of it and would not presume to speak for it on that basis alone.

 
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amazon
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« Reply #1384 on: February 22, 2012, 07:59:56 PM »

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.


Ok you use words better than me .but ithink the no brigade should be concerned it could drive people away from marple ,if it's left to vandals .but that's just my opinion people sometimes don't like my opinion on this forum .
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finetimefontaine
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« Reply #1385 on: February 22, 2012, 08:06:11 PM »

Quote
I believed all apps went through the local planning meeting first.. and that's when they KNOW what the app entails! The local one can then send it to a central one?   This application if I remember all the info correctly has been transferred to full planning months before an application exists!! This frees our lovely councillors to finally have an opinion as they wont be part of that committee, and lets be honest, why on earth, after their initial silence whilst I'm sure they gauged general opinion, speak out FOR a supermarket when the election is looming?


Hello Lisa,

The planning application process is complicated. There is a particular situation where the AC can decide the whole thing and it doesn't  have to go to H & P, Paul L explained at the EACM but I wasn't listening properly.

What is intriguing is why half the Councillors should speak out and half shouldn't.

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Miss Marple
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« Reply #1386 on: February 22, 2012, 08:10:12 PM »

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way


Ok you use words better than me .but ithink the no brigade should be concerned it could drive people away from marple ,if it's left to vandals .but that's just my opinion people sometimes don't like my opinion on this forum .
I value your opinion Amazon even though we sometimes go head to head !  Cheesy
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BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!
NeilCorrie
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« Reply #1387 on: February 22, 2012, 08:16:34 PM »

Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

College finances are in great shape, by ensuring 10% of staff leave the college in 2012.  The writing's on the Wall(mart) for them.  Unsure whether the axing of so many staff will lead to increased student numbers and improved student grades though. 

At least there could be a big new employer in town by then, for all those out of work lecturers.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2012_07_11m%20Part%20A.pdf
A Governor commented that the reduction in the pay bill from £11.4 to £10m was a 10% cut in one year and translated into a significant reduction in staff.
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amazon
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« Reply #1388 on: February 22, 2012, 09:12:54 PM »

[You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either.

Well here's the evidence for the College's finances being sound:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Annual_reports/Annual_Rep_08_09_lr.pdf

In addition, a fairly recent Ofsted inspection graded their financial position as 'outstanding', I believe.  So we know that the College is not disposing of the site because they are in any financial difficulty.

In answer to your question....
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

... we don't KNOW anything for sure, but that outcome is so improbable that we can safely disregard it.  This is because the College can not afford to (indeed, would not be allowed to) close courses or deliberately reduce student numbers.  So they will not sell the site unless they can get enough money for it to build sufficient replacement accommodation on the Buxton Lane site.  And no-one would buy it for £12 million or any other significant sum and then let it become a wasteland.  I understand the point about the site being bought up to be a 'land bank', but AFAIK that is usually done as a 'blocking move', when a big supermarket chain (e.g. Asda) buys up land to stop another big chain (e.g. Tesco) from opening up in competition with them.  The only supermarket in that position round here would be the Co-op.  Can anyone see them doing that?  Me neither......    Wink

Where I do agree with you, finetime, is here:
We can't know for sure until we see agreement details but what has probably occurred is that Asda have bought it subject to obtaining PP and if they don't get it ownership reverts back to MCSFC.

Asda might know something about.tesco .          we don't who bought all that land at hawk green just past the green on the left . Recently been sold
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mabel
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« Reply #1389 on: February 22, 2012, 11:05:36 PM »


Are you referring to the financial report for the year ending July 31st 2009 - surely a bit out of date by now?  Could you post a link to the more recent OFSTED report which said it was 'outstanding'?
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #1390 on: February 23, 2012, 08:05:51 AM »

It's not escaped my attention  with the pictures outside the college with the campaign 'THINK AGAIN' do they think we are fools ?


Maybe they just feel that Hibbert Lane isn't suitable for a big supermarket. They seem damned if they do & damned if they don't.
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Dave
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« Reply #1391 on: February 23, 2012, 10:17:05 AM »

Are you referring to the financial report for the year ending July 31st 2009 - surely a bit out of date by now?  Could you post a link to the more recent OFSTED report which said it was 'outstanding'?

Sorry, it wasn't an Ofsted it was a YPLA audit - so many quangos   Roll Eyes.  Here's a reference to it in the college's most recent statement about its plans:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=90

As you see, it includes the following: 'The managers of the College [achieved] excellence in financial management from “Young People’s Learning Agency” (YPLA) in a recent audit.'

What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission?

Nothing.  The college will simply soldier on as best they can in the present Hibbert Lane buildings.    I reckon the best they can hope for in his eventuality is that they could sell off part of the car park and green space for housing, which might raise a million?   That could be put to good use doing some relatively minor extensions and improvements to their existing estate, but it's nowhere near enough for them to be able to fully replace the Hibbert Lane buildings, which are outdated and unsuitable.  It was built eighty years ago as a secondary school - very different layout and requirements compared with the 21st century curriculum of a 6th form college, needless to say.  And they will have to divert precious (and diminishing) funds to repairing, heating and maintaining inefficient premises - funds which ought to be used for teaching our youngsters. 
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hollins
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« Reply #1392 on: February 23, 2012, 10:21:05 AM »


Are you referring to the financial report for the year ending July 31st 2009 - surely a bit out of date by now?  Could you post a link to the more recent OFSTED report which said it was 'outstanding'?
See:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/130515
You probably require the October 2009 report. The later one is in a limited area only (although MiA still felt like lobbying it).

I think the grades are more "Satisfactory" than "Outstanding" - but they are better than Marple Hall's.


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finetimefontaine
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« Reply #1393 on: February 23, 2012, 10:35:56 AM »

Dave,

Thanks for your efforts Dave, greatly appreciated.

As with most of the time you put forward a clear logical opinion.
 
I'm trying to resist taking a narrow, entrenched point of view but nevertheless, can't say that I'm convinced that we're not heading for an abandoned site in 1 to 3 years if Asda pull out. 
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Duke Fame
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« Reply #1394 on: February 23, 2012, 11:05:22 AM »


Hibbert Lane buildings, which are outdated and unsuitable.  It was built eighty years ago as a secondary school - very different layout and requirements compared with the 21st century curriculum of a 6th form college, needless to say.  And they will have to divert precious (and diminishing) funds to repairing, heating and maintaining inefficient premises - funds which ought to be used for teaching our youngsters. 

I know you feel it's needless to say but I had to pop into the place a few months ago and I thought it was fine. All double glazed, ceilings pretty high and classrooms / lecture theatres were not unlike that at any university.

I suspect this inefficient building is a bad excuse for poor performance. Students do pretty well at Oxbridge and those buildings are not brand new.
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