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Poll
Question: Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?
I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

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Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 138406 times)
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Lisa Oldham
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« Reply #1200 on: January 06, 2012, 11:11:52 AM »

Miss Marple... did you read my post?  You just seem to concentrate on Daves comments!
I've visited the stall too I still want a list of names and numbers, i think my reasons are acceptable and I believe its a view many others hold too, without it people do not trust any of you!  Just by avoiding the issue on here, and the lack of transparency of this organisation, the dipping into other areas without any authority ,and most of the refusal to accept that you as  group have made mistakes means I have absolutely no support for MIA at all any more!

Dave... I hate to bring this up as I know it ll start the rounds again... but I haven't seen any guarantee that the money raised will be reinvested in Marple so constantly suggesting they are doing it for the benefit of our children is not necessarily correct.. its purely a business decision lets stop pretending otherwise (I don't necessarily disagree with the reasoning behind that decision)  and what many argue is that it shouldn't be, that an educational establishment is NOT just a business but part of the community as a whole, in fact they claim to be exactly that !  Their behaviour however has been completely the opposite and I do think if there were local people who were part of our community on the governing body it would have a different ethos and feel to it, and though they might be still selling the land part of the decision making process on who to sell it to would be whats best for the area. 
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Miss Marple
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« Reply #1201 on: January 06, 2012, 12:28:14 PM »

Lisa of course MIA have made mistakes we are a group of local residents who feel passionate that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would be a mistake.  We hopefully learn by our mistakes but what must be remembered is that we have MIA members who are sympathetic to the cause and if details were released it could be detrimental to their employment ie a conflict of interests.  The action line is always there for people to contact, the stall is a regular feature in the centre, and this web site serves as a point of contact.
I am no stranger to court  and have represented people in employment law cases where cases of conflict of interests has been a big issue with at times dire consequences for an individual, so MIA respect peoples right to remain in the 'back office'
I am sure when/ if the plans are submitted  MIA will become more transparent and will be looking to increase our numbers.  I did mention at the start of this topic that MIA was formed around my kitchen table and from there we have gained a band of people from all walks of life who bring skills, knowledge and a greater understanding of planning law.
I have also mentioned that MIA has different groups of individuals who work in teams within their own area of particular practice, there are members that even I have not met.
We are not a secret organisation and I fully understand how this may appear but sadly I am also fully aware of how so people can use this to in someway try to bring MIA into disrepute.  It's going to be a long haul and like I have said before there are really only 2 or 3 members of MIA who post on here.  I have continued to post to keep people informed of developments but I am becoming increasingly disappointed in some peoples contributions striving to give MIA a negative press instead of getting of their backside and starting an opposition group if they feel that there is a need.
Please do not continue to frighten MIA members from posting as this is at this moment the only source of information that you will receive that will help everyone keep up to speed with developments .  Please be respectful of our cause. MM


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Dave
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« Reply #1202 on: January 06, 2012, 12:59:17 PM »

Dave... I hate to bring this up as I know it ll start the rounds again... but I haven't seen any guarantee that the money raised will be reinvested in Marple

It's a very good question.  In theory, camsfc governors are free to allocate funds between courses and campuses as they see fit.  So theoretically there is no guarantee that the proceeds from the sale of Hibbert Lane will be re-invested in Marple.

In practice, however, it is as close to certain as makes no difference.  The reason for this is as follows.    In order to dispose of Hibbert Lane, the college will have needed to get consent from its funding body, the Young People's Learning Agency (YPLA).   This consent will have had conditions attached.  One of the standard conditions is that the development should not lead to any loss of curriculum.   So camsfc will have to show that it can still deliver the same curriculum after the sale has been completed.

Now the only way they could do that without re-investing the proceeds at Buxton Lane would be if they could shoe-horn all the Hibbert Lane activity and the Buxton Lane activity into the existing Buxton Lane building!  Needless to say, there is not the remotest chance of their being able to do that. 


..an educational establishment is NOT just a business but part of the community as a whole, in fact they claim to be exactly that !  Their behaviour however has been completely the opposite and I do think if there were local people who were part of our community on the governing body it would have a different ethos and feel to it, and though they might be still selling the land part of the decision making process on who to sell it to would be whats best for the area.

I think that's a really important point.  It surprises me that there appears to be very little local representation on the camsfc governing body, and in my experience of colleges that's quite unusual. 
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Mrs O
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« Reply #1203 on: January 06, 2012, 01:54:29 PM »

Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.
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Mrs O
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« Reply #1204 on: January 06, 2012, 02:10:31 PM »

Truly amazing  Shocked  So let me get this straight: you guys up there on Planet MIA seriously believe that by talking to people in a tent in Market Street on Saturdays, you are getting an accurate representation of the majority view of the 23,000 residents of Marple.   Really?? 
Dave,my grandchildren have no opinion either way on the supermarket,Like a lot of the 23000 residents in Marple you keep banging on about they cannot speak on such issues.You cannot count on all 23000 having an opinion for reasons too numerous to mention.People who sign the petition have to be 18 years old,so that excludes a few thousand of your magic number. Roll Eyes
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Belly
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« Reply #1205 on: January 06, 2012, 02:23:41 PM »

Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.

The video of the meeting at the school shows the person from the 'yes' campaign getting strictly limited 'respect' from some of the attendees.

Furthermore, many of the statements made by some of the contributants duirng the meeting add up to little more than scaremongering nonsense, where 'opinion' was presented as 'fact', with no real interest in debate.

I found that meeting amusing in many respects. It went on for ages, when actually there was little or nothing of any substance to discuss, other than for the Council to state their policy position - which they did at the start. After that, it was mainly hot air, with people trying to crystal ball gaze as to what the effects of an unknown scale retail of development might be.

Don't get me wrong, I think local discussion and review of any proposals is a critical element - but the amount of vitriol and ill-informed nonsense that is doing the rounds of the community at present is not helpful or constructive. Personally if presented with 'facts' (not saying that MIA are doing this, but these are regular rumours that I hear) that a supermarket the size of Portwood was to be built at Marple, including the knocking down of the swimming baths and potentially resulting in the loss of the 6th form college in the town - I would be against it too and would gladly sign a petition / make my views clear. But I've a pretty good idea that the final scheme won't be like that at all. That said, I'm not sure what it actually will include and so I'm waiting to see the details ('facts' if you will) before making up my mind as to whether I think there is any merit in the proposals.
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Mrs O
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« Reply #1206 on: January 06, 2012, 02:29:11 PM »

Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that Smiley

This rings bells with me too, although my totally non-scientific impression, having had various chats with friends, neighbours, people I meet in shops etc, has been that opinion is fairly evenly divided.  But please let's not pretend that this is in any way representative of the population of Marple! 

As for this:
Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.

...that is just ridiculous, and a typical example of the MIA tendency to exaggerate and personalise issues.  When colleges acquire or dispose of major assets (land, buildings etc), these are matters for the Governing Body to determine.  The notion that camsfc is disposing of the Hibbert Lane site because a 'woman with too much power from Stoke dictated it' is absurd.  The reality is that the governors of the college are doing the best they can, in these difficult times, to improve their facilities for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  It's as simple as that! 
This is my personal opinion!nothing to do with MIA.I do not want a woman from Stoke and her out of area governors with too much power dictating what we do get in our town.They did not have to sell to a supermarket.(Social Conscience)?Nah! like I said before selfish! they couldn' care less especially about the people who live around the proposed supermarket site.I feel so sorry for them Sad
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Harry
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« Reply #1207 on: January 06, 2012, 02:39:05 PM »

Dave,my grandchildren have no opinion either way on the supermarket,Like a lot of the 23000 residents in Marple you keep banging on about they cannot speak on such issues.You cannot count on all 23000 having an opinion for reasons too numerous to mention.People who sign the petition have to be 18 years old,so that excludes a few thousand of your magic number. Roll Eyes

Do people who sign the petition have to be residents of Marple?
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Mrs O
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« Reply #1208 on: January 06, 2012, 02:52:05 PM »

Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.

The video of the meeting at the school shows the person from the 'yes' campaign getting strictly limited 'respect' from some of the attendees.

Furthermore, many of the statements made by some of the contributants duirng the meeting add up to little more than scaremongering nonsense, where 'opinion' was presented as 'fact', with no real interest in debate.

I found that meeting amusing in many respects. It went on for ages, when actually there was little or nothing of any substance to discuss, other than for the Council to state their policy position - which they did at the start. After that, it was mainly hot air, with people trying to crystal ball gaze as to what the effects of an unknown scale retail of development might be.

Don't get me wrong, I think local discussion and review of any proposals is a critical element - but the amount of vitriol and ill-informed nonsense that is doing the rounds of the community at present is not helpful or constructive. Personally if presented with 'facts' (not saying that MIA are doing this, but these are regular rumours that I hear) that a supermarket the size of Portwood was to be built at Marple, including the knocking down of the swimming baths and potentially resulting in the loss of the 6th form college in the town - I would be against it too and would gladly sign a petition / make my views clear. But I've a pretty good idea that the final scheme won't be like that at all. That said, I'm not sure what it actually will include and so I'm waiting to see the details ('facts' if you will) before making up my mind as to whether I think there is any merit in the proposals.

That was a public meeting and I suspect was mainly attended by people living in the immediate vicinity of the two sites.People who are about to have their enviroment changed against their wishes are unlikely to show a man who obviosly cares not a jot, any respect.The people at the meeting are only trying to protect what they have worked hard for,their property,it's value and the area they chose to live in.Would you show respect to someone who is happy to encourage what yours to be taken away?honest answer please?
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Henry_
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« Reply #1209 on: January 06, 2012, 02:54:18 PM »

Lisa of course MIA have made mistakes we are a group of local residents who feel passionate that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would be a mistake.  We hopefully learn by our mistakes but what must be remembered is that we have MIA members who are sympathetic to the cause and if details were released it could be detrimental to their employment ie a conflict of interests.  The action line is always there for people to contact, the stall is a regular feature in the centre, and this web site serves as a point of contact.
I am no stranger to court  and have represented people in employment law cases where cases of conflict of interests has been a big issue with at times dire consequences for an individual, so MIA respect peoples right to remain in the 'back office'
I am sure when/ if the plans are submitted  MIA will become more transparent and will be looking to increase our numbers.  I did mention at the start of this topic that MIA was formed around my kitchen table and from there we have gained a band of people from all walks of life who bring skills, knowledge and a greater understanding of planning law.
I have also mentioned that MIA has different groups of individuals who work in teams within their own area of particular practice, there are members that even I have not met.
We are not a secret organisation and I fully understand how this may appear but sadly I am also fully aware of how so people can use this to in someway try to bring MIA into disrepute.  It's going to be a long haul and like I have said before there are really only 2 or 3 members of MIA who post on here.  I have continued to post to keep people informed of developments but I am becoming increasingly disappointed in some peoples contributions striving to give MIA a negative press instead of getting of their backside and starting an opposition group if they feel that there is a need.
Please do not continue to frighten MIA members from posting as this is at this moment the only source of information that you will receive that will help everyone keep up to speed with developments .  Please be respectful of our cause. MM



Miss Marple, I think you are seriously underestimating this transparency issue. It's not intended to bring you into disrepute in any way or to scare your members from coming on here.

Rather, it is absolutely intended as constructive criticism. As an organisation that fundraises, you are flirting with illegality if you don't take this on board. Look here for a good starting place for this http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/Codes_and_regulation/Codes/codes-directory

Many of your members may well have conflicts of interest, but if all of them do then surely there'd be serious concerns about what you're doing. A more paranoid person than I could suspect that you have senior co-op executives working with you, as an example. Transparency would allay these fears. A donor at very, very  least should expect a written audit trail in communications and evidence of where the money was being spent.
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Belly
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« Reply #1210 on: January 06, 2012, 03:02:30 PM »

Off-topic post removed.
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Howard
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« Reply #1211 on: January 06, 2012, 03:19:10 PM »

That was a public meeting and I suspect was mainly attended by people living in the immediate vicinity of the two sites.People who are about to have their enviroment changed against their wishes are unlikely to show a man who obviosly cares not a jot, any respect.The people at the meeting are only trying to protect what they have worked hard for,their property,it's value and the area they chose to live in.Would you show respect to someone who is happy to encourage what yours to be taken away?honest answer please?

I would show respect for anyone's views, otherwise where would that leave us?

Note: This post has been reinstated 8/1/12. Admin.
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Howard
Dave
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« Reply #1212 on: January 06, 2012, 04:06:16 PM »

Do people who sign the petition have to be residents of Marple?

No, and we have it on good authority (no less than Miss M herself, as far as I can recall) that many signatories come from  outside the area. 
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Miss Marple
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« Reply #1213 on: January 06, 2012, 04:12:49 PM »

Removed - could have been done by PM.
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Dave
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« Reply #1214 on: January 06, 2012, 04:24:18 PM »

They did not have to sell to a supermarket.

As far as I know, if they don't sell to a supermarket, the college can only expect to receive about £4 million for the site, and this will mean that the entire scheme will collapse. I see from another post that you have grandchildren, Mrs O.  Are you interested in ensuring that they have decent facilities for their sixth-form education?  Or don't you care?  

(Social Conscience)?Nah! like I said before selfish!

I'm puzzled by this repeated accusation of selfishness.  There is nothing remotely selfish about serving as a school or college governor.   People who serve as college governors do so out of public-spiritedness.  They give up their time to deal with mountains of tedious bureaucracy, attend long boring meetings, and they don't get paid a penny for it.  Sometimes I wonder why any of them do it.  And then someone comes on this forum and accuses them of being selfish, of all things.   Roll Eyes

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