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Marple Sixth Form College: ambitious to be an outstanding college within its community, and for its community.

Poll

Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?

I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 206270 times)

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amazon

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #938 on: September 18, 2011, 03:03:06 PM »
Just one last thing Dave how have the rumours been disproved if anything the so called rumours are now taking shape.  Did you now that the new road has had men sizing up and when asked were not from the council, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus has also had planners sizing up, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus can only build on the car park, so if they are not building up how do they intend to house the Hibbert Lane students.  
And as I have said till I am blue in the face ......  If this is such a flipping good idea and will benefit my children your children and our children's , childrens education, why oh why did CAMSFC try to get it into planning without consultation with the community and why was Ms Cassidy so outraged when she found out that the plans had been leaked to the community, remember the two leaked emails that I posted on the web and CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed.

 exelent posting .   


  I have also got a leaked resignation letter from a governor who lives local  who stood down because he was totally against the plans which he knew would destroy our community i have also spoken at great length to another local Governor who has stood down because of the plans and how they had tried to speak to Ms Cassidy about the impact a supermarket of that size would have in a residential area .  The deputy principal of CAMSFC has also resigned after less than a year in post  And surprise surprise Mr Grant (Chair of Governors )  is also standing down soon, whats that saying about leaving a sinking ship.

So once again I would ask you all to look at the facts and ask yourself, why are CAMSFC even refusing our MPs invitations to speak to the community or enter into alternative proposals for the site with SMBC and the
councillors.  
Its very plain to me that CAMSFC have been caught out, because if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who
worked  at the college the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser and all this would have gone ahead and the first we would have known about it was when a notice was attached to a lamp post.
  So Dave I suggest that if you put more time into investigating the facts, weighing up the evidence you could develop a greater understanding of the issues and I really do feel that if you do not live near the site or will be effected by this development it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts.  


So what if people have been measuring roads and the sites? That is absolutely standard practice if you are looking to submit a major planning application - you need to survey the relevant areas to be able to make proper investigations re: infrstructure, levels, widths, etc. I would be absolutely stunned if that had not taken place. I'm afraid trying to suggest that its all a bit sinister is completely misleading.

With regards to consultation with the community - some pre-planning application consultation is encouraged but you would usually do this once you have a good idea what it is you are proposing to build. I.e. you present relatively detailed plans, visuals, facts and figures for public review and comment. CAMSFC were clearly not in any position to do this when the idea of the sheme was initially leaked (they didn't even have a purchaser for the site) so its hardly surprising that we have not had that much information from them. Since the leaks, they have had to deal with a major pressure group who see fit to  rubbish anything put out in the public domain, so its hardly surprising they have been reticient to drip feed information or engage until they get all their ducks in a row.

Ultimately, even if we do end up having to wait until notices of an application go up on lamposts, the formal planning consultation stage will be substantive (at least 3 months) and we will have plenty of opportunity to read all relevant documentation and prepare a response. Given that SMBC have already stated that major retail use would be against the local plan designation of the site and that they would refuse it, this effectively means that MIA have won the initial battle at least. If CAMSFC do ultimately take matters to appeal, its unlikley that we will have any decision until the towards the end of next year at the earliest. Its going to be a long haul for all parties.

Think what you like about Dave's responses. I find them measured, thoughtful and seeking to cut through a lot of the hysteria that has been generated regarding the proposals. If you are going to stop publishing 'rumours', due to the fact that he questions their validity, then I don't think that this messageboard will be any the worse for that and I don't feel that I would be any worse informed. If you or MIA decide to stop posting well researched and evidenced 'facts' (which I don't see Dave taking issue with) then yes, we will have all lost out.

Facts are still quite light on the ground in this saga, but supposition and "2+2=5", is very evident. The community should be able to make up their minds up on whatever scheme is finally submitted, and not a 'virtual' scheme put about by those who fear the worst. In the information vacuum, I'm still holding my breath......



tricky

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #937 on: September 18, 2011, 02:54:45 PM »
Superb post Belly
meh

Belly

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #936 on: September 18, 2011, 02:47:36 PM »
Just one last thing Dave how have the rumours been disproved if anything the so called rumours are now taking shape.  Did you now that the new road has had men sizing up and when asked were not from the council, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus has also had planners sizing up, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus can only build on the car park, so if they are not building up how do they intend to house the Hibbert Lane students.  
And as I have said till I am blue in the face ......  If this is such a flipping good idea and will benefit my children your children and our children's , childrens education, why oh why did CAMSFC try to get it into planning without consultation with the community and why was Ms Cassidy so outraged when she found out that the plans had been leaked to the community, remember the two leaked emails that I posted on the web and CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed.
  I have also got a leaked resignation letter from a governor who lives local  who stood down because he was totally against the plans which he knew would destroy our community i have also spoken at great length to another local Governor who has stood down because of the plans and how they had tried to speak to Ms Cassidy about the impact a supermarket of that size would have in a residential area .  The deputy principal of CAMSFC has also resigned after less than a year in post  And surprise surprise Mr Grant (Chair of Governors )  is also standing down soon, whats that saying about leaving a sinking ship.

So once again I would ask you all to look at the facts and ask yourself, why are CAMSFC even refusing our MPs invitations to speak to the community or enter into alternative proposals for the site with SMBC and the
councillors.  
Its very plain to me that CAMSFC have been caught out, because if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who
worked  at the college the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser and all this would have gone ahead and the first we would have known about it was when a notice was attached to a lamp post.
  So Dave I suggest that if you put more time into investigating the facts, weighing up the evidence you could develop a greater understanding of the issues and I really do feel that if you do not live near the site or will be effected by this development it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts.  


So what if people have been measuring roads and the sites? That is absolutely standard practice if you are looking to submit a major planning application - you need to survey the relevant areas to be able to make proper investigations re: infrstructure, levels, widths, etc. I would be absolutely stunned if that had not taken place. I'm afraid trying to suggest that its all a bit sinister is completely misleading.

With regards to consultation with the community - some pre-planning application consultation is encouraged but you would usually do this once you have a good idea what it is you are proposing to build. I.e. you present relatively detailed plans, visuals, facts and figures for public review and comment. CAMSFC were clearly not in any position to do this when the idea of the sheme was initially leaked (they didn't even have a purchaser for the site) so its hardly surprising that we have not had that much information from them. Since the leaks, they have had to deal with a major pressure group who see fit to  rubbish anything put out in the public domain, so its hardly surprising they have been reticient to drip feed information or engage until they get all their ducks in a row.

Ultimately, even if we do end up having to wait until notices of an application go up on lamposts, the formal planning consultation stage will be substantive (at least 3 months) and we will have plenty of opportunity to read all relevant documentation and prepare a response. Given that SMBC have already stated that major retail use would be against the local plan designation of the site and that they would refuse it, this effectively means that MIA have won the initial battle at least. If CAMSFC do ultimately take matters to appeal, its unlikley that we will have any decision until the towards the end of next year at the earliest. Its going to be a long haul for all parties.

Think what you like about Dave's responses. I find them measured, thoughtful and seeking to cut through a lot of the hysteria that has been generated regarding the proposals. If you are going to stop publishing 'rumours', due to the fact that he questions their validity, then I don't think that this messageboard will be any the worse for that and I don't feel that I would be any worse informed. If you or MIA decide to stop posting well researched and evidenced 'facts' (which I don't see Dave taking issue with) then yes, we will have all lost out.

Facts are still quite light on the ground in this saga, but supposition and "2+2=5", is very evident. The community should be able to make up their minds up on whatever scheme is finally submitted, and not a 'virtual' scheme put about by those who fear the worst. In the information vacuum, I'm still holding my breath......

Words are trains for passing through what really has no name...

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #935 on: September 18, 2011, 02:03:07 PM »
Just one last thing Dave how have the rumours been disproved if anything the so called rumours are now taking shape.  Did you now that the new road has had men sizing up and when asked were not from the council, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus has also had planners sizing up, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus can only build on the car park, so if they are not building up how do they intend to house the Hibbert Lane students. 
And as I have said till I am blue in the face ......  If this is such a flipping good idea and will benefit my children your children and our children's , childrens education, why oh why did CAMSFC try to get it into planning without consultation with the community and why was Ms Cassidy so outraged when she found out that the plans had been leaked to the community, remember the two leaked emails that I posted on the web and CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed.
  I have also got a leaked resignation letter from a governor who lives local  who stood down because he was totally against the plans which he knew would destroy our community i have also spoken at great length to another local Governor who has stood down because of the plans and how they had tried to speak to Ms Cassidy about the impact a supermarket of that size would have in a residential area .  The deputy principal of CAMSFC has also resigned after less than a year in post  And surprise surprise Mr Grant (Chair of Governors )  is also standing down soon, whats that saying about leaving a sinking ship.

So once again I would ask you all to look at the facts and ask yourself, why are CAMSFC even refusing our MPs invitations to speak to the community or enter into alternative proposals for the site with SMBC and the
councillors. 
Its very plain to me that CAMSFC have been caught out, because if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who
worked  at the college the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser and all this would have gone ahead and the first we would have known about it was when a notice was attached to a lamp post.
  So Dave I suggest that if you put more time into investigating the facts, weighing up the evidence you could develop a greater understanding of the issues and I really do feel that if you do not live near the site or will be effected by this development it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts. 
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #934 on: September 18, 2011, 01:08:11 PM »
Thanks for that Tina ! One of my first calls will be to Stockport senior planners on Monday because that's where the information has come from.  I will also speak to Ms Cassidy's PA and find out why they have mis informed you, did you give your name to CAMSFC  so I can identify you ? as  this is important and the truth needs to be out.  

Dave as we have informed you before all our information comes from leaked sources so I think the time has now come for MIA to stop posting on this site as you continually keep shooting the messenger   I am unsure of who you spoke to at the MIA stall but what you must always remember is that we have lived and breathed this since June ie reading FOI going to meetings speaking to council officials, speaking to senior planners from all areas.   I feel it is unfair to continually keep criticising the work that members of MIA do and so for that reason the posts on this subject which contain information  will now cease on the forum, which is a shame but now a necessity   Over and Out  ;D
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Tina

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #933 on: September 18, 2011, 12:48:43 PM »
Stopped by at the MIA gazebo in Market Street yesterday -  mainly, I must admit, to shelter from a downpour!  While I was browsing the leaflets, I couldn't help overhearing what one MIA person wielding a petition was saying about the college's plans - including all that stuff about the plan to use the proceeds of Hibbert Lane to develop Buxton Lane being a 'smokescreen' for the real plan, which was to move out of Marple altogether and build a new college on Jacksons Lane. And of course, people appeared to believe every word of it.........   ::)

I'm not personally a supporter of MIA, because to my mind, education has to be the overriding priority. I admit that there is a valid case to be made against the college's plans - but by peddling nonsensical rumours, which have already been disproved, MIA just discredits itself.   

MIA need to show what facts they have to prove that the college are going to take the money and run to rebuild at Jackson Lane. I have been in touch with the principal and she has told me a different story. In fact she says ...This is completely untrue we are fully committed to staying in Marple and looking at options to give the College modern and attractive buildings.

Also they are not planning to build higher on the building at Buxton Lane.

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #932 on: September 18, 2011, 11:03:08 AM »
Stopped by at the MIA gazebo in Market Street yesterday -  mainly, I must admit, to shelter from a downpour!  While I was browsing the leaflets, I couldn't help overhearing what one MIA person wielding a petition was saying about the college's plans - including all that stuff about the plan to use the proceeds of Hibbert Lane to develop Buxton Lane being a 'smokescreen' for the real plan, which was to move out of Marple altogether and build a new college on Jacksons Lane. And of course, people appeared to believe every word of it.........   ::)

I'm not personally a supporter of MIA, because to my mind, education has to be the overriding priority. I admit that there is a valid case to be made against the college's plans - but by peddling nonsensical rumours, which have already been disproved, MIA just discredits itself.   

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #931 on: September 17, 2011, 06:17:23 PM »
Another fantastic amount of signatures were gained today against CAMSFC proposed plans to build a supermarket on Hibbert Lane    So a big thank you to all who signed and to people who took away petitions to circulate to people who have not for what ever reason had the opportunity to sign.  

Once again we are looking for leaflet distributors for an event  which will be happening in Oct. If you could spare a hour just leafleting your street please contact the Action Line or send a personal message.   :-*
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #930 on: September 12, 2011, 01:16:08 PM »
Hi Dave
For obvious reasons I am not on the legal team lol  >: :D.  We are have a full MIA meeting soon and I will get the details of the alternatives for use that have been suggested
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #929 on: September 12, 2011, 12:14:51 PM »
Colleges are just like any other organisation - if necessary they dispose of land, acquire new sites, extend existing sites etc etc, in order to expand or modernise their premises.  It happens all the time - it's just perfectly normal behaviour.  We did exactly that at the last college I worked at before I retired.  In particular, many colleges have got rid of former school buildings, just as camsfc plan to, and for the same reasons - they are unsuitable and expensive to run.  I believe Stockport College is planning something similar at its former Priestnall School campus in Heaton Moor,

But are you going to answer the question about 'alternatives which have government funding'.  Sounds intriguing........

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #928 on: September 11, 2011, 11:50:56 PM »
We have people on the MIA team that have come up with alternatives which have government funding
What are those?

Does anyone know if this is the first time a public/private college/school has been sold since John Major handed lands over ?
It has happened many many times. 
Where  has it happened  I can not find a similar situation ?  But I bet I know a man who does  ;)
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #927 on: September 11, 2011, 11:05:02 PM »
We have people on the MIA team that have come up with alternatives which have government funding
What are those?

Does anyone know if this is the first time a public/private college/school has been sold since John Major handed lands over ?
It has happened many many times. 

Victor Meldrew

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #926 on: September 11, 2011, 08:30:42 PM »
Yep, thats MP's for you, Jumping on the band wagon, then wondering why the band wagon's wheels fell off...

I am absolutely sure that Andrew Stunell knew what he was saying. He's been around too long to get caught up in a bandwagon. Local MPs will be entirely pragmatic about an issue like this. Andrew Stunell will continue to publicly state that the college should find another way of funding their new building. He will do this whilst knowing full well that legally they have to accept the highest bid, no matter who it comes from, or what the planning regulations are saying about the use of the land.

Therefore he will be able to say he has supported the "no" campaign which (currently) the majority of his Marple constituents seem to want. He will also be able to say (if the sale of the land goes through to a supermarket) that unfortunately the college was following its legal obligations.

I think you are right, Howard, but I am more skeptical. Having spoken in confidence to a member of the CAMSFC Senior Management, I know the College are under a public duty to secure the highest possible sale value, something that doesn't seem to have been the case for government when Mrs Thatcher sold off  public utilities. As a government minister with the relevant brief, Andrew Stunell has lots of civil servants available to brief him on this, so ignorance is no excuse.

Also his statements about the Localism Bill he is in charge of introducing were economical with the truth in the extreme, such as the requirement for developers to consult local communities prior to the submission of planning applications; this, on its own, is of no use unless the process of appeal is changed to strengthen the capacity of local communities to successfully resist plans from developers once any plan is past the consultation stage and has become a matter of open contention between a developer and communities. A number of organisations, including CPRE, have long called for appeal powers in the planning system to be rebalanced in favour of communities, because the high % of successful appeals reveals the balance within the existing system. The CPRE analysis indicates that developers get away with this simply by putting in appeal after appeal until the community will to oppose dips - attrition.

For the same reason, the other claim our MP made - shifting the responsibility for drafting strategic plans from Local Authorities to neighbourhoods - will not alter the vulnerability of any such plans to being breached via applications from developers which run counter to them, once the appeals from developers already in possession of the land are underway.

To understand the full extent to which our MP is playing politics with us, we also need to bear in mind the forthcoming planning legislation. Everything I have read about it indicates that planning regulations & safeguards are being relaxed to facilitate development, not tightened up.

I will bow to a lawyer on this, but my own experience tells me that what binds all these threads together is the concept of superior and inferior legislation: which legislation trumps which other bits. Unless Andrew Stunell can tell us that his Localism Bill is going to be superior to planning legislation AND that it is going to be strengthened so as to give communities the opportunity to say No once and for all, rather than having to continually show that there is a demonstrable majority against the development, then he is complicit in the worst that could happen to Marple.

Andrew Stunell leads for the government on these matters and it was the government that chose to defeat two amendments to the Localism Bill that could have made a crucial difference to our prospects. One from Labour put forward a new clause  which would have required local planning authorities to adopt retail diversity schemes. Another, from a Liberal Democrat MP was aimed at allowing councils and the local community to protect the diversity and vitality of the local high street. Even so, neither would have been enough so long as the Planning appeal process remains as it is, let alone gets further liberalised, which is what is happening.

As with so much else about this government, all this runs counter to what both parties promised during the General Election - to introduce a community right of appeal in relation to planning applications.

 

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #925 on: September 11, 2011, 07:38:04 PM »
I too noticed that the MIA people avoided mentioning the likely increase in traffic, but maybe they were being quite clever.    ;)   Although not all MIA supporters seem to agree on every detail, the general line seems to be that a supermarket would be OK in the middle of the town (e.g Chadwick Street) but not on the edge of it.  So if they had objected on the grounds of an increase in traffic, the interviewer would have said something like 'why are you against an increase in traffic on Hibbert Lane, but not in the town centre?'
.

No that's not the case it was unfortunate that I was not able to make the interview due to work commitments all sides are represented Business , Community and the Civic Society   I would have spoke about traffic because that's the main thing that will effect me.  The interview was short we are not experts in this field but we learn by our mistakes.  I personally feel that David and Gillian explained very well the damage a supermarket of this scale would have on the community.   MIA is a community group which everything comes under ie community issues, house prices, traffic, road safety, shops, loss of buildings of special intrest, tourism and business.  The majority of shop owners actually live in Marple so they also have all the other things mentioned to contend with is this  development was to be built on Hibbert Lane
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!

Miss Marple

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #924 on: September 11, 2011, 06:45:17 PM »
Hi Duke
We have tried and tried to speak with Ms Cassidy but she is refusing to answer emails, letters, invitations to speak with the community and messages continually ignores messages given  via her PA joy Pippin  We have people on the MIA team that have come up with alternatives which have government funding but  unless she is willing to meet and discuss the proposals we are at a loss.  
This is only my opinion not that of MIA but my personal view is that too much money has been spent by CAMSFC in legal fees etc that for them there is no going back because they would then be answerable for wasted monies, we do know for a fact that we are two years behind their plans so there must have been some public / private monies spent that the college and corporation will be answerable for.
Does anyone know if this is the first time a public/private college/school has been sold since John Major handed lands over ?
BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!