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Poll
Question: Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?
I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

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Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 143530 times)
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Miss Marple
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« Reply #1785 on: July 08, 2012, 11:44:08 AM »

Ms Cassidy stated that plan B was housing, she stated that she did not ever think that SMBC would have refused planning permission  Lips sealed.    Sorry for having to continually repeat myself but some posters on this site never want to know the events as to how we have got to this stage.   MIA were contacted by a developer who stated that they had offered nearly 9million for housing and a very small Waitrose, but their bid had never been even considered by CAMSFC.   
MIA had to inform the developer that we could not assist in anyway as that part of things  were nothing to do with MIA as we had only formed to prevent a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
Now I am giving information which is the truth so I do not expect to have derogatory replies.  It's a shame that because of a few posters on this site more information can not be shared.   But I know i will get negative response from some on this site but hey it's brightens up their day  Undecided
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BECAUSE IT CONCERNS ME, MINE AND OTHERS !!!!!
Victor M
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« Reply #1786 on: July 08, 2012, 12:03:33 PM »

Sorry to contradict Miss M but I thought the £9M bid was considered but the college declined it in favour of higher bids from Tesco & ASDA, with the college eventually plumping for the highest bid from Walmart, which we now know was for £13M.
The Waitrose/housing bid would in all probability been accepted by the council. So the college has mortgaged the whole future of Marple for £4M, a sum that the council would probably have loaned to the college at very attractive rates. Instead we have the prospect of a decimated High St., empty petrol forecourts, traffic chaos at the Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane junction & in side roads, blighted property in the vicinity of the new Walmart, all for £4M. Was it worth it CAMSFC!
+ the building on the college could probably have been started by now.
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wheels
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« Reply #1787 on: July 08, 2012, 12:05:08 PM »

What do you mean the date time and place of the consultation was in the public domain for at least 3 weeks. Whilst the college and ASDA have scored many own goals over the year this was not one of them unless of course you feel we should have all had a personal hand delivered letter plus an email and phone call perhaps asking us ever so nicely if we would like to come to a consultation.

There can be very few people in Marple who were not aware of the event and they would mostly have been under 5.
How was it in the public domain for 3 weeks ? It was on this website and it appeared in the CAMSFC website
is that classed as being in the public domain. The leaflets were not delivered to every household in the vicinity of the college. The information as been available for 3 weeks if you happen to come across it. That is slightly different then everybody being made aware of it.
Hopefully when the actual planning application goes through it will be different.

I think you would have had to have been willful not to be aware the consultation was taking place. The fact that so many turned up indicates to me that the developers got that part of it right to suggest anything else is clutching at straws.
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wheels
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« Reply #1788 on: July 08, 2012, 12:08:11 PM »

Sorry to contradict Miss M but I thought the £9M bid was considered but the college declined it in favour of higher bids from Tesco & ASDA, with the college eventually plumping for the highest bid from Walmart, which we now know was for £13M.
The Waitrose/housing bid would in all probability been accepted by the council. So the college has mortgaged the whole future of Marple for £4M, a sum that the council would probably have loaned to the college at very attractive rates. Instead we have the prospect of a decimated High St., empty petrol forecourts, traffic chaos at the Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane junction & in side roads, blighted property in the vicinity of the new Walmart, all for £4M. Was it worth it CAMSFC!
+ the building on the college could probably have been started by now.

I would have thought as a public corporation the governors have a duty to go with the highest bidder and could be criticised if they didn't
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Dave
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« Reply #1789 on: July 08, 2012, 12:24:07 PM »

Wheels writes 'I  would have thought as a public corporation the governors have a duty to go with the highest bidder and could be criticised if they didn't'.

That is the case, and it would not just be a case of being 'criticised' - the college is simply not allowed to dispose of any assets for less than the best available price. It's as simple as that.

Miss M confirms what we would have guessed: that 'plan B' is simply to sell the land for less, and scale back their Buxton Lane plans accordingly. 
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simonesaffron
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« Reply #1790 on: July 08, 2012, 12:31:29 PM »

Sorry to contradict Miss M but I thought the £9M bid was considered but the college declined it in favour of higher bids from Tesco & ASDA, with the college eventually plumping for the highest bid from Walmart, which we now know was for £13M.
The Waitrose/housing bid would in all probability been accepted by the council. So the college has mortgaged the whole future of Marple for £4M, a sum that the council would probably have loaned to the college at very attractive rates. Instead we have the prospect of a decimated High St., empty petrol forecourts, traffic chaos at the Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane junction & in side roads, blighted property in the vicinity of the new Walmart, all for £4M. Was it worth it CAMSFC!
+ the building on the college could probably have been started by now.

I would have thought as a public corporation the governors have a duty to go with the highest bidder and could be criticised if they didn't


I'm not defending CAMSFC in fact I think their interaction with the community in this has been sly and deceitful and I wouldn't believe anything that Ms Cassidy says even now. However £4m is still a very large sum of money to borrow and repay especially when there is an alternative.
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Belly
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WWW
« Reply #1791 on: July 08, 2012, 01:00:45 PM »

Really? Im not sure I would describe it as 'sly and deceitful', I suspect more that it was 'reactive and unprepared'.

The 'facts' as far as I am aware, is that someone at the College leaked to locals that the CAMSFC was looking to sell off the Hibbert Lane site to fund future improvements. This was before the site had been 'marketed' to developers. All hell then broke loose, with the College being accused of all sorts and MIA being formed and proceding to berate the College (and Council) for being secretive and refusing to make public their detailed plans. My guess is that at this stage CAMSFC didn't have any plans for Hibbert Lane, other than to sell it for the best price they could.

The bids came in and Asda won (after six months of anti-Tesco ranting!). This then became public knowledge but still no plans, as ASDA had simply won a financial bid process and didn't have any public plans to show.

Planning and design for the site took place (including necessary and quite proper surveys of baseline conditions), this almost certainly involved initial discussions with the Council in order to get a feel for what the Council considered were the key issues and the best way of satisfactorily resolving these matters. The Plans were then finalised in draft and the scheme presented to the public.

Thats about standard for any evolving development scheme and I don't see any real deceitfulness in this.

The reason that people seem to have got the feeling that the College has been secretive is that for the first 9 months or so of this process CAMSFC were being bombarded with demands for information, when in reality they had virtually no information to give out. Once the personal slurs started, unsurprisingly, the hatches were then firmly battended down. I still think its amazing that one of the key opposition attack points seems to be to berate the College governors for not being local. Its all a bit Roystin Vasey at times for my liking.

Overall, to put it another way. If the deals had been done privately (and unknown to the public at large) and the first thing that we found out was the presentation of proposals at public consultation (i.e. within the last couple of weeks), would that have been so bad? Would it have been sly and deceitful? And what overall difference would it have made anyway? It certainly would have assisted the fight against global warming, given the amount of hot air that has been vented over the past 18 months, just for us to arrive at a place we would have been at anyway.  Embarrassed
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wheels
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« Reply #1792 on: July 08, 2012, 01:26:30 PM »


Correct Belly
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simonesaffron
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« Reply #1793 on: July 08, 2012, 01:37:28 PM »

Incorrect Belly and Wheels,

If the College were an ordinary business that provided a take it or leave it service to the community.

 that you could easily get from many other outlets. 
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Victor M
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« Reply #1794 on: July 08, 2012, 01:41:58 PM »

The difference is that had the college managed to keep it quiet, then the Chadwick St. site would not have been marketed for development and the Walmart Supermarket would have been given planning permission.
Now there is every likelyhood that Walmart will have the planning application turned down and there will be a new Supermarket on Chadwick St. That's why the college wanted to keep the lid on it.
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wheels
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« Reply #1795 on: July 08, 2012, 01:42:37 PM »

So please explain Simone how all the huffing and puffing over the last year has added one jot to what would have happened in any event.

We are at exactly the same place as if the thoughts of the Governors had never become public, that is a developer presenting outline ideas in advance of a planning application.

Please explain what has so far been achieved?Huh
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wheels
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« Reply #1796 on: July 08, 2012, 01:46:32 PM »

The difference is that had the college managed to keep it quiet, then the Chadwick St. site would not have been marketed for development and the Wilmar Supermarket would have been given planning permission.
Now there is every likelyhood that Wilmar will have the planning application turned down and there will be a new Supermarket on Chadwick St. That's why the college wanted to keep the lid on it.

That's not correct Victor the ASDA proposals do mot meet planning guidelines so would and I expext will be declined in any event.

We will then move to appeal,l that was always going to be the process and people have been mislead if they think otherwise.
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simonesaffron
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« Reply #1797 on: July 08, 2012, 02:13:23 PM »

Belly,


What I actually meant to say in my last post which was cut short due to techno inability was this:


If the College was a commercial business.

If the College provided a product that you could easily find elsewhere.

If the College didn't have charge of the hearts and minds of our children and young people.

If the College had made a statement of development at any stage.

If the College hadn't consistently refused to see our local Councillors.

If the College hadn't been the complete opposite of open and transparent.

If the College hadn't allowed itself to be completely cowed by MIA.

If the College hadn't refused to make at least one appearance at the last 13 Area Committees.

If the Community didn't consider the College as part of the community.

If we didn't expect a College to lead by good example.

If the College wasn't actually a College but in reality was actually ASDA.


Then you would have made some good points in your last post.

     
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wheels
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« Reply #1798 on: July 08, 2012, 02:33:22 PM »

But the college now is a commercial business thanks to the Tories removing it from LA control and it does have a product that can be easily accessed elsewhere so just on your first two premise alone you fall down Simone


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simonesaffron
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« Reply #1799 on: July 08, 2012, 02:35:25 PM »

So please explain Simone how all the huffing and puffing over the last year has added one jot to what would have happened in any event.

We are at exactly the same place as if the thoughts of the Governors had never become public, that is a developer presenting outline ideas in advance of a planning application.

Please explain what has so far been achieved?Huh

You're quite right right Wheels  all the "huffing and puffing" has made no difference to what has happened nor will it make any difference to what is actually going to happen. Personally apart from the intertwaddle I haven't been involved in any. I certainly haven't been on any marches nor signed any petitions, and  IMHO most people in Marple have done the same as me. I have always held the view that I will have my opinion informed when I see the planning application but that is not the same as saying that the College (and I think we should remember that it is one) has behaved in a way that a College should behave as it hasn't. It has deveoped a complete siege mentality and totally disengaged itself from the community it puports to serve.   
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