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Poll

Do you approve, oppose or not care if a supermarket were built on the Hibbert Lane site?

I object to a supermarket being built on the site.
I approve of a supermarket being built on the site.
I don't mind what is done with it.

Author Topic: Tesco / ASDA !!!  (Read 211210 times)

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Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #368 on: July 28, 2011, 11:39:32 AM »
Can someone explain the actual status of the college. It has been referred to as a commercial organisation and even a corporation. Who is it accountable to? Who funds it?  

I'm no longer involved with colleges since I retired, and things change so fast that I'm already out of date.  But basically, sixth form colleges and further education colleges became independent of local authorities in April 1993, as a result of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992.   Like all other colleges which came within the scope of the Act, camsfc is controlled by its own independent corporation, aka Board of Governors.   When the corporations were first established in 1993, the members were appointed by the Secretary of State, but after that they became their own self-perpetuating appointing bodies. They usually have a local authority rep on the Board, although it was said at yesterday's meeting that camsfc now doesn't have one, which surprises me.  

Camsfc has a rather complex history of its own, however.  It was created through a merger which took place after the initial incorporation in 1993.  This Wikipedia article has a useful brief history.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheadle_and_Marple_Sixth_Form_College

Although they are charities, and not for profit, in many respects these colleges do indeed have to behave quite like commercial organisaions, and that was always the intention, of course, when the Tory government set them up in the early 1990s.

Over the years the funding sources have changes.  At first funds came from a new quango called the Further Education Funding Council (FEFC).  Then Labour abolished that in 1998 and set up a new quango called the Learning and Skills Council, which was essentially the result of a merger between the FEFC and the former Training and Enterprise Councils (TECS).  (Bear with me, I've nearly finished  ;).

AFAIK, the funding now comes partly via local authorities, for students betweem 16 and 18, and partly from yet another new quango called the Skills Funding Aggency (SFA).

Hope this helps   ::)

NeilCorrie

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #367 on: July 28, 2011, 11:35:31 AM »
1. From a selfish point of view, I live off Buxton Lane opposite the College, one thing that as not been  
   detailed is what the proposed new extension of the college would consist of! Surely there are restrictions
   on what can be built on the existing land at the Buxton Lane campus ?
   The thought of the increased student population and associated cars etc would be a nightmare. Have
   you ever see what it's like on a open evening? You struggle to park outside your own property.

My original FOI to the college requested covenant details for all 3 sites, but their reply only covered the Hibbert Lane campus.

I've requested clarification, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg.

Concerning Peacefield school, I would heartily suggest raising FOI requests to get further information.

NeilCorrie

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #366 on: July 28, 2011, 11:27:35 AM »
Is it possible for this forum to access our email addresses and/or phone numbers to contact us on-mass to get a message to everyone

The "NOTIFY" button at the top of the forum page, "  Mark Read  |  Notify of Replies  |  Start new topic  |  Post New Poll " permits this

http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help
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The Notify button enables registered members to subscribe to email notification of replies to topics in this board.

moorendman

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #365 on: July 28, 2011, 11:07:09 AM »
Can someone explain the actual status of the college. It has been referred to as a commercial organisation and even a corporation. Who is it accountable to? Who funds it?  I am sure that many people would believe that the college is entirely under the control of the lcoal authority. Lets understand the reality. The two emails published allegedly from the principal make interesting reading - in one breath she speaks about "preserving their status in the community" and in another expressing dissappointment that certain details were being leaked to that same community. Hmmmm

Cross Laner!

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #364 on: July 28, 2011, 11:03:18 AM »

As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Point taken, however they have chosen their occupation and they are paid to do their job.  It can't be that bad as there are husband and wife teams locally and they seem to manage, if it was so bad then perhaps they would stand down.

To enter the political ring you have to take the rough with the smooth and there will be many benefits too!  Remember that Marple has 6 councillors and that most have stood for quite a while so things really can't be that bad.  When commenting on our local councillors I do so based on their public life not on them as individuals.  In every walk of life you find persons who are great at their jobs and those who are not...........  and this is evident, in my opinion, in our Councillors, some are better than others.

Lisa Oldham

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #363 on: July 28, 2011, 10:50:38 AM »
The trouble with the Marple Whispers is that most people currently think the rumour of a store is untrue.. as it was when it first cropped up and it was proven (??) not to be the case ..maybe a couple of years ago now?  So we need really to make sure everyone knows that now it is FACT.  and that we dont have much time to initially persuade the college to rethink.  Could someone maybe put an A5 flyer together making it clear that it is now reality. with an information website page?? and the phone number... Id happily print a tonne off and put them in places.. and on FB, twitter etc Though i think The Marple Twitterati are well and truly on to it already!

I know that youngsters arnt the most active of people however i think it might be useful to try and get them involved.. they do have a representative on the committee and they are in the college with the potential to cause very particular discomfort and embarrassment to the management.  

AND maybe another online petition Mark?

hollins

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #362 on: July 28, 2011, 10:46:54 AM »
Interesting quote from Mike Whittaker (with which I entirely concur): "In some respects I blame the coop for their part in this issue with a new Supermarket. If it wasn't for their greed people wouldn't seek to find a cheaper alternative for their local shop.". Apart from the issue of the College's finances, if the Co-op were forced to give up their stranglehold in the centre of town then most of the unwelcome issues would probably go away.

Note to the people on Hibbert Lane: some of us live very close to the present supermarket (i.e the Co-op) - living close to a supermarket really isn't the big issue you make of it. As for not liking the noise of the bin men ... come on, get real!

It is news to me (and no idea whether it is true, or even whether it matters) that Marple Hall is "applying for Academy Status". That wouldn't of itself mean that they will then want a sixth form. They are, however, definitely taking about 200 children from the soon-to-be-closed Offerton High School, recovering their capacity of a few years ago and presumably limiting their opportunity for any sixth-form provision. (Does this have any connection to their current building of a ring of steel around the school grounds?)

As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Belle Star

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #361 on: July 28, 2011, 10:32:10 AM »
i for one origanally voted for a supermarket, but after reading all the info thats been provided have changed my mind totally.my gran used to live in the bungerlows 15 years back .the disruption to the people near the site would be unberable. we are not bredbury, we are not romiley, we are not hazel grove we are marple,lets keep it that way!

Fantastic! Glad to see people are starting to make informed decisions - especially since both sides of the argument have been covered in this forum! Too many people seem to think it's a good idea without considering the wider implications on the community as a whole. Keep spreading the word Bluebelly  :)

Cross Laner!

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #360 on: July 28, 2011, 10:25:59 AM »
Just a thought...........

Is it possible for this forum to access our email addresses and/or phone numbers to contact us on-mass to get a message to everyone.  I don't always manage to check this forum everyday, but do pick up emails and text messages throughout each day.  This may be worth considering if there was to be a demonstration or such like??  I guess this may be to much work and that maybe we'd need to give permission and that the software may not be able to cope???

I'm also aware that there are many persons who still do not know anything about this campaigne and wonder how we can quickly get this to the whole of the community.


bluebelly

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #359 on: July 28, 2011, 10:22:33 AM »
i didnt realise that so few people, had the power to approve somthing of this magnitude. surley the council who are made up of people living in the area,would only give their approval if the people wanted the development.i for one origanally voted for a supermarket, but after reading all the info thats been provided have changed my mind totally.my gran used to live in the bungerlows 15 years back .the disruption to the people near the site would be unberable. we are not bredbury, we are not romiley, we are not hazel grove we are marple,lets keep it that way!

Dave

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #358 on: July 28, 2011, 10:15:50 AM »
Interesting points above, about competition for camsfc from Marple Hall, if Marple Hall becomes an Academy and opens a new sixth form.

However, those using this as a stick to beat camsfc with should realise that it will probably have the opposite effect - if camsfc is competing directly with Marple Hall, it will be even more important for it to have shiny new facilities (as it already does at Cheadle) in order to attract Marple students.  

As it happens, I have been a college governor (not at camsfc), so I can see the issue from their point of view.   They are legally required to act in the best interests of the college, and they will argue that in this case, those are also the best interests of the community which the college  serves.  

Incidentally, anyone who intends writing to individual college governors should be aware that members of governing bodies can only act (or react) collectively.  So they will probably get one reply, which is likely to be from the Clerk to Governors on behalf of the entire board.   And by the way, it's always a good idea to use the correct name for the college  ;)

Cross Laner!

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #357 on: July 28, 2011, 10:14:35 AM »
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasn't taken away all the local business,also if the funding is not found to develop the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the erection of crossing barriers.I don't think this should be dismissed. ;D

There would be additional employment, but not only Marple residents will be employed.  Remember Tescos have a clothing range, goodbye to M&Co, Pink Parrot, Tescos have a pharmacy, goodbye to Superdrug and possibly Boots, Tescos may put a 24 hr petrol station on site??, Tescos sell Paint, Hardware, DIY, goodbye Hollins, Homewares, DVDs, Flowers, Electrical goods, Butchery, goodbye Littlewoods & Whites, Bakery, goodbye Gregs and dare I suggest that even Archers may close, Fish Mongers.  Tescos will close down the vast majority of independent shops on Market Street -FACT.  Please don't think that competition is the way forward, open your eyes, independents cannot compete with the Majors, their buying power enables them to out price all and any 'competitors'.  There may be additional employment, but offset that against the many jobs lost in our community, we can't be sure that we wont actually be in a worse state.

Where local councillors are concerned, I wouldn't trust a word they say.  [Unsubstantiated accusations in this post have been removed. Admin].  I would keep dialogue with them, but only at arms length.  I saw 2 or 3 of them in action during the consultation period of Rose Hill Primary School and they conducted themselves appallingly.  Some of them believe that they can promise the world and not follow it through.  Marple belongs to its community and the way things are going there will be no community left for future generations.  Over recent years Marple has successfully brought its community together through Festivals etc.  These will become a thing of the past once Market Street becomes a ghost town.

NO to TESCO.     I will continue to watch this site for more information and look forward to giving my full support to MARPLE IN ACTION.  

Mike Whittaker

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #356 on: July 28, 2011, 09:51:10 AM »
quote
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness,also if the funding is not found to develope the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the errection of crossing barriers.I dont think this should be dismissed.

In reply

I would argue that the coop has taken away from local business. They control the exhanburys establishment in an aim to control price and effectively monopolise the area. They now own the Somerfield/texaco garage, again controlling more of the market. I believe Iceland is the only competition. In some respects I blame the coop for their part in this issue with a new Supermarket. If it wasnt for their greed people wouldnt seek to find a cheaper alternative for their local shop.

With regards the further education aspect. I would love to support the college that I went to as a young adult and increase its facilities, but not at the current price/sacrifice. I would rather support the Academy status of Marple Hall which will still provide higher education services in the local area.

I wouldnt trust the planning commitee to make traffic flow more effective in marple. I have seen the erection of the crossing at hibbert lane near to the junction of A626. It is one of the worst designs I have seen. It borders in my opinion on dangerous. The effect of it is that people still cross at the mouth of the road, where it is natural but dangerous to cross.
A further example of this is the "add on" outiside the Pineapple pub on Church Lane. This acts more like a traffic obstacle, than a pedestrian crossing.

Getting back to the point though, I dont dismiss that there could be benfits to employment but I feel these would be more limited than Tesco would have you believe.

it is with the future generation, my son, my daughter and everyone elses children in mind that I oppose the tesco project. They may never know what a beautiful country side town existed on the outskirts of Manchester if we dont take a stand.


Come on Nick, get real!

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #355 on: July 28, 2011, 09:41:24 AM »
If you mean the road at the back of the baths then there are a few houses for sale on there. You would think that they wouldn't bother if they have compulsory purchase orders on them but you never know. Maybe they have been offered more to keep stum.


Belle Star

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Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #354 on: July 28, 2011, 09:03:41 AM »
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness

This is taken directly from www.tescopoly.org on the "basic facts about supermarkets" page

Supermarkets destroy local jobs. Supermarket claims that new stores bring in jobs fail to consider the wider picture of independent retailer bankruptcies. A 1998 study by the National Retailer Planning Forum (NRPF) examining the employment impacts of 93 superstore openings between 1991 and 1994 found that they resulted in a net loss of more than 25,000 jobs or 276 per store opened. More information on the impact of supermarkets on jobs is available in Chapter 13 of the Competition Commission report on the power of the supermarkets.

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The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

A brilliant point and a brilliant post. Imagine if every Governor received 200 or more letters like Mike's!!!

Please, everyone who is against this proposal, GET WRITING!!!