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Author Topic: Stockport Living Streets  (Read 3993 times)

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Dave

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Re: 20 Is Plenty
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 11:52:34 PM »
There is therefore a lot of Best Practice around to help Stockport define residential roads. 

OK, then please define which roads would be 'residential' in Marple.  What concerns me is that next time I have to get up at some unearthly hour to drive to Stockport and catch an early train to London, I might have to get up even earlier because of some ridiculous new speed limit, which means that I have to crawl along at 19mph through empty roads to get to Stockport Station.    :'(

Deniseam

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Re: Stockport Living Streets
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 09:48:59 AM »
Not sure why there isn't a 20mph limit during school times outside Ludworth.  Although most of the traffic along there is virtually at a standstill in the morning there is still occasional problems.  The other day a young girl ran across the crossing before the green man lit up - luckily the van coming towards her at quite a pace managed to stop in time.  We haven't had a crossing patrol there for some years now since the last person retired. 

Living Streets

  • Guest
20 Is Plenty
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 06:35:38 AM »
Thank you all for your comments.  Newcastle, Hull, Oxford, Leicester, Bristol, Warrington - these are all towns/cities which have adopted this default limit.  Either in large sections or right arcross town. There is therefore a lot of Best Practice around to help Stockport define residential roads. 

I agree that this new urban limit is a minor irritation for drivers who are in a hurry to get away.  But there is no excuse for children ending up dead or critically injured in the streets where they live. In Hull, I understand, serious road accidents were reduced by 74% in their 20P pilot areas.  Let me know if you would like more statistics, I got loads.

Traffic calming measures are expensive and often ineffectual because drivers either ignore or do not register them. Please don't be cross with Living Streets for campaigning for the limit; be cross about the drivers who have made a formal rule absolutely necessary.

Just a thought:  the 30mph limit was put in place in the 1930s.  You can guess how many more cars, lorries and motorbikes makes up our streams of traffic today.



Aslan

  • Guest
Re: Stockport Living Streets
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 03:14:59 PM »
There's also the fact that accidents where cars hit pedestrians are not always the car drivers fault, whatever the speed limit. Amazing how many adults 'avoid' pedestrian crossings, plus those that do use them crossing whilst the traffic is on green (especially bad in front of children in my book - I make a point of waiting for the buzzer/green man when kids about, despite having non of my own) And then there's the kids that think they have right of way and run out ................. 

BRING BACK TUFFTY !!

Dave

  • Guest
Re: Stockport Living Streets
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 02:22:20 PM »
What is classed as a 'residential street'? If it is a street with houses on then does that mean that Stockport Road in Marple would be 20mph?

I wondered about this too, and eventually I found an answer (of sorts), buried in one one of those ''Living Streets' websites:   'it is possible, and highly beneficial, to aim high and ask for 20mph limits as default in built up areas, with only major roads excepted.'

It still doesn't define a 'major road', but I guess Stockport Road would count. 

Personally I have some sympathy with the philosophy of this campaign, but a blanket 20mph is simply unrealistic, and it would be so widely disregarded that enforcement would be very difficult.   Experience shows that such restrictions are most effective when the majority of people can be persuaded that they are justifiable.  For example, we now have a permanent 20mph limit near schools, even though it is only needed around 08.30 and 15.30 on about 200 days per year.  As a result, this limit is often ignored at other times, and even at these times.  The danger is that a speed restriction which doesn't command general acceptance could undermine the credibility of all speed restrictions, including the many which really are justified. 



Rudolph Hucker

  • Guest
Re: Stockport Living Streets
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 01:29:00 PM »
Oh dear. Unfortunately yet another ill thought out, knee jerk, blanket proposal to excuse bad driving. This, and the proposed 50 mph rural limit, cannot and do not address what they aim to do.

Road deaths are a tragedy and nobody would say we shouldn't aim to eliminate them everywhere we can but this logic must ultimately take us back 100 years and require us to drive preceded by a person waving a red flag unless we quickly and decisively accept the folly of it.

Road deaths are reduced by better driving standards and less distractions to the driver, not reducing speeds. Speed does not kill, bad driving does. Every government study that I've seen, and that's quite a few, concludes that speed alone is only responsible for between 3 and 5% of death and injury accidents on our roads. All the rest are down to bad driving where exceeding the speed limit may, or may not, have been evident. Research also shows that there are too many signs, road markings and obstacles on our roads taking a huge percentage of a drivers concentration away from the act of driving. Let's start campaigning against them... Too many are complacent about drivers using mobile phones while driving, even those who do not do so personally. Once people were complacent abut drunk driving - not any more (rightly). We need the same public attitude to those who drive with a mobile phone clamped to their ear.

Reducing speeds generically increases congestion (think fluid dynamics), bunches up traffic - therefore making it more difficult for traffic to cross or join the flow without a concertina effect, INCREASES both pollution and fuel consumption where a vehicles gearing means the reduced speed is taken below the peak torque revs (which this speed will), increases frustration in some (often inexperienced) drivers which, while not excusable, can make them attempt inadvisable actions and, when in fear of the consequences, one drives to the speedometer (typically reading 10% fast anyway so currently when a driver sits on an indicated 30 they are only doing 27) and not road conditions/traffic flow, takes another degree of concentration off the job of driving safely. And let us not forget, those drivers who exceed the current 30 mph limit when and how they can now, will ignore a 20 mph limit even more so. Therefore the pain/inconvenience is felt, as usual with these stupid ideas, by the conscientious, law abiding, driver not those who are the real danger on the roads.

How many road casualties does "Living Street" suggest this move will eliminate please? Percentages are all well and good but reducing the limit on residential streets will not reduce total traffic casualties by 60% as stated in the original post. It may reduce casualties on residential streets by 60% but how many residential street casualties are there in Stockport at the moment? 60% of not much, or 60% of how many?????? I'm also keen to hear the answer to the rovers excellent question - what is a residential street? oh, and why has this "transition" now become 20 mph when for years it was 30? Having said that, why isn't it 10mph - I'd rather not get hit by a car even at 20 if it's all the same to you....

20 mph limits outside schools, possible also sections of (but needn't be all) "rat runs", and at a push dead ends, but 30 mph outside my house, without question nothing other than a residential street, is fine with me - I'll take responsibility for my 2 year old with no road sense thank you.

the rover

  • Guest
Re: Stockport Living Streets
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 12:24:05 PM »
What is classed as a 'residential street'? If it is a street with houses on then does that mean that Stockport Road in Marple would be 20mph? Also think of all the other roads that we drive on, Hall Street, Hempshaw lane, etc. What about roads that are now 40mph with houses on will these be made 20mph? Something to think about?

Living Streets

  • Guest
Stockport Living Streets
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 06:41:16 AM »
I would like to tell you about Stockport Living Streets, part of national campaigning charity Living Streets.  We are calling for Stockport Council to introduce default 20mph limits across all residential streets. 

This change would drastically cut road casualties.  The transition from minor injuries with no long term impact to major injuries that ruin lives occurs at 20 mph.  Research shows that lowering the speed limit to 20 mph reduces total traffic casualties by 60%, and child casualties by 70%.  A pedestrian hit at 20 mph has a 95% chance of survival.  20mph limits can also cut CO2 emissions from traffic by encouraging smoother traffic flow, and making it safer and more attractive for people to walk and cycle around.

We are collecting signatures for our '20 Is Plenty' petition Saturdays (11am to 1pm and weather permitting) opposite Laura Ashley's - and at our stand at the forthcoming Environment Fair, this year in Great Underbank.

Please get in touch if you want to know more, join us or need support in transforming your street into a living street:  www.stockportlivingstreets.com or www.livingstreets.org.uk.

*be the change you want to see*
(Gandhi)