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Author Topic: Marple Wharf Development  (Read 23177 times)

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amazon

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2017, 05:05:04 PM »
Surprised, as I have been all to often in the past, by the bizarre collection of opinions this forum attracts when a very worthy cause presents itself.

So I presume Dave, amazon, etc you’re gleefully awaiting the “for sale” sign to go up on this residential conversion? And none of us will EVER be able to step inside? Why?! If you (clearly) don’t care about the building, why bother posting.

1000+ signatures don’t paint the same picture of public opinion...
you have had longernough to decide you want to step inside .

marpleexile

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #89 on: October 12, 2017, 12:24:52 PM »
So I presume Dave, amazon, etc you’re gleefully awaiting the “for sale” sign to go up on this residential conversion? And none of us will EVER be able to step inside? Why?! If you (clearly) don’t care about the building, why bother posting.

I've lived in Marple for (almost) all of my 43 yrs (had 4 years out in the middle somewhere). I've never stepped foot inside, nor am I aware of any opportunity to have ever stepped inside. I don't quite see what we're supposedly losing.

The building isn't being demolished, and it will have owners who have a vested interest in it's upkeep (as it'll literally be the roof over their heads). What's the problem here, other than, "change".

Dave

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #88 on: October 12, 2017, 08:11:48 AM »
Does that really mean the best financial deal? That would be insane.

Yes that is exactly what it means, and anyone who has ever been the trustee of a charity knows it perfectly well.  The same applies to public sector and semi-public sector bodies - local authorities, colleges, hospitals, academy schools etc.

So I presume Dave, amazon, etc you’re gleefully awaiting the “for sale” sign to go up on this residential conversion? And none of us will EVER be able to step inside? Why?! If you (clearly) don’t care about the building, why bother posting.

On the contrary, as I have said more than once in this thread, I would be delighted to see the building converted into a visitor centre.  The point I am making is that Marple Civic Society stated their intention back in 2010 to apply for Heritage Lottery funding to do exactly that (see http://www.marplecivicsociety.org.uk/A%20Vision%20for%20Marple_with%20front%20page%20picture_website.pdf), but then, as far as we can tell, they never got around to it.   Now someone else comes along with another scheme, which the society then tries to stop.

I think 'dog in a manger' is the phrase, isn't it?

rsh

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #87 on: October 11, 2017, 10:25:39 PM »
Surprised, as I have been all to often in the past, by the bizarre collection of opinions this forum attracts when a very worthy cause presents itself.

So I presume Dave, amazon, etc you’re gleefully awaiting the “for sale” sign to go up on this residential conversion? And none of us will EVER be able to step inside? Why?! If you (clearly) don’t care about the building, why bother posting.

1000+ signatures don’t paint the same picture of public opinion...

wheels

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #86 on: October 11, 2017, 09:55:46 PM »
By the way, I meant to ask, MCS said seven years ago that they were going to submit a Heritage Lottery Fund application for this scheme. Did they?
s

Is this the group of individuals(MCS) answerable and accountable to nobody. Those who shout loudest...... It that who you mean Dave.

amazon

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #85 on: October 11, 2017, 08:15:16 PM »
By the way, I meant to ask, MCS said seven years ago that they were going to submit a Heritage Lottery Fund application for this scheme. Did they?
Notice you are still waiting for a reply Dave

Condate

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #84 on: October 11, 2017, 07:41:12 PM »
The relevant bit is this: 'Charity land sales and leases - legal requirements. The law says you must.. try to get the best deal for your charity'.

Does that really mean the best financial deal? That would be insane. Surely it must mean the best deal which promotes the aim of the charity. Anything else would be madness.

Dave

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2017, 06:29:01 PM »
By the way, I meant to ask, MCS said seven years ago that they were going to submit a Heritage Lottery Fund application for this scheme. Did they?

Dave

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2017, 05:29:03 PM »
The business plan has been formulated by a group of about ten people, led by Councillor Sue Ingham, and Marple Civic Society is heavily involved... Because of the attitude of CRT in demanding full residential value for the warehouse we don't want to release figures as we think they will just try to rubbish them and use them to get their planning consent.

If you have so little confidence in your plan that you dare not publish it then you can hardly expect anyone else to take it seriously!

There has been a suggestion that CRT can only 'dispose of assets at their full value'. However the proposed use is fully inline with their charitably status, so this consideration simply does not apply.

It's nothing to do with the compatibility of your proposed use with the CRT's charitable status.  See https://www.gov.uk/guidance/charity-land-and-property. The relevant bit is this: 'Charity land sales and leases - legal requirements. The law says you must.. try to get the best deal for your charity'. As I said before, there are ways round that. If you read on past that bit you'll see that charities can sell for less than full market value if they get the consent of the Charity Commission. And that can be done - I've done it myself - but you have to make a good case, supported by a viable business plan (not a secret one!), and you need key political supporters onside, including your MP and your local authority.

It would be great to see that historic building transformed into a visitor centre, but you need to make a powerful public case for it, and I think you may now have missed the moment, sadly.


amazon

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2017, 04:55:17 PM »
Sorry, didn't realise there was a reply...
1. The business plan has been formulated by a group of about ten people, led by Councillor Sue Ingham, and Marple Civic Society is heavily involved. It contains the sort of uses you would expect with cafe, heritage displays, community and exercise class meeting space. Many other similar facilities have been found to be viable in other parts of Britain, but obviously this depends on the purchase price. Because of the attitude of CRT in demanding full residential value for the warehouse we don't want to release figures as we think they will just try to rubbish them and use them to get their planning consent. We do still want to talk sensibly with them, but the planning application is a gun to our heads - how can any  community group work with an organisation that does this?
2. There has been a suggestion that CRT can only 'dispose of assets at their full value'. However the proposed use is fully inline with their charitably status, so this consideration simply does not apply. And in other cases CRT does collaborate with community groups. We are at a loss to explain why they are so intransigent with Marple apart from being desperate to make as much money as possible. Any ideas?
You are wasting your time .if you do manage to obtain the building you will strugle to make it pay its way .

Blackfryers

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2017, 04:12:51 PM »
Sorry, didn't realise there was a reply...
1. The business plan has been formulated by a group of about ten people, led by Councillor Sue Ingham, and Marple Civic Society is heavily involved. It contains the sort of uses you would expect with cafe, heritage displays, community and exercise class meeting space. Many other similar facilities have been found to be viable in other parts of Britain, but obviously this depends on the purchase price. Because of the attitude of CRT in demanding full residential value for the warehouse we don't want to release figures as we think they will just try to rubbish them and use them to get their planning consent. We do still want to talk sensibly with them, but the planning application is a gun to our heads - how can any  community group work with an organisation that does this?
2. There has been a suggestion that CRT can only 'dispose of assets at their full value'. However the proposed use is fully inline with their charitably status, so this consideration simply does not apply. And in other cases CRT does collaborate with community groups. We are at a loss to explain why they are so intransigent with Marple apart from being desperate to make as much money as possible. Any ideas?

admin

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #79 on: October 09, 2017, 06:58:17 AM »
Some great pictures of Marple Wharf sent over last night by David Burridge have been added to the Virtual History Tour today:

http://visitmarple.co.uk/photos/thumbnails.php?album=lastup&cat=0



It would be good to get that petition up to 1,000 signatures before it's presented to Marple AC, less than 100 to go:

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-marple-wharf
Mark Whittaker

The Marple Website

amazon

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #78 on: October 04, 2017, 11:52:28 AM »
I’m glad to see the 500+ signatures already on the petition disagree with the shockingly negative attitude of many here.

Building some houses on that bit of wasteland, fine. But the wharf warehouse too? Isn’t that just a massive waste of a potential asset? If the Canal and River Trust were truly wanting to make a positive difference to Marple’s canals they’d use the funds from the new build houses to prop up the redevelopment of the warehouse into a heritage facility... the café of which could then bring in rolling funds, not a one-off sell off.

There are numerous case examples of them being involved with similar buildings around the country, why they have thrown in the towel here is beyond me, but I get a feeling they’ve smelt blood with the Marple property market values. Unfortunately, THEIR values shouldn’t be a race to cash in for short term gain.

Good on Marple Civic Society for (finally) being a bit louder about this. Perhaps having it almost blow up will focus everyone’s attention on it enough that Marple won’t let it be wasted after all. Projects like this don’t happen overnight, especially when the major party hardly seems cooperative (even just a quick scan of the planning documents gives this impression). It might be a struggle and it might take years, but saving this building from being closed off to the public for the rest of its existence with yet another bland residential conversion will be worth it.

If we can find thousands of pounds to build a skate park or save a single pub, surely we can come together to give Marple’s canals the centrepiece they need.

Sign the petition and add your comment to the planning application NOW.
The cafe would not bring in rolling funds no one  would use it to that extent .plenty of very good cafes in Marple .

Dave

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #77 on: October 04, 2017, 11:33:05 AM »
Projects like this don’t happen overnight

Indeed. Or even in seven years, it seems.

rsh

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Re: Marple Wharf Development
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2017, 10:42:48 AM »
I’m glad to see the 500+ signatures already on the petition disagree with the shockingly negative attitude of many here.

Building some houses on that bit of wasteland, fine. But the wharf warehouse too? Isn’t that just a massive waste of a potential asset? If the Canal and River Trust were truly wanting to make a positive difference to Marple’s canals they’d use the funds from the new build houses to prop up the redevelopment of the warehouse into a heritage facility... the café of which could then bring in rolling funds, not a one-off sell off.

There are numerous case examples of them being involved with similar buildings around the country, why they have thrown in the towel here is beyond me, but I get a feeling they’ve smelt blood with the Marple property market values. Unfortunately, THEIR values shouldn’t be a race to cash in for short term gain.

Good on Marple Civic Society for (finally) being a bit louder about this. Perhaps having it almost blow up will focus everyone’s attention on it enough that Marple won’t let it be wasted after all. Projects like this don’t happen overnight, especially when the major party hardly seems cooperative (even just a quick scan of the planning documents gives this impression). It might be a struggle and it might take years, but saving this building from being closed off to the public for the rest of its existence with yet another bland residential conversion will be worth it.

If we can find thousands of pounds to build a skate park or save a single pub, surely we can come together to give Marple’s canals the centrepiece they need.

Sign the petition and add your comment to the planning application NOW.