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31
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Dave on June 27, 2016, 01:51:08 PM »
I realise that Condate.  I was thinking more of people like this guy: 
32
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Condate on June 27, 2016, 01:03:47 PM »
I wonder what some of the people who voted Leave will say when they find out that there will be no change to EU immigration.........

For most of us, that's fine. Immigration simply wasn't the issue.

33
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Dave on June 27, 2016, 12:39:18 PM »
A legal union would exist in the EU if all laws in every member state were drawn up and enforced by the EU, and were common to every country.   That is not the case - far from it.  Most law across the EU is national law, and it varies from country to country. 

The jurisdiction of the ECJ relates solely to EU law, which as I pointed out in an earlier post, covers areas in the Treaties such as EU administration, social and market regulations, free movement and trade etc.

Incidentally, I gather Boris Johnson's article in today's Telegraph, though I have not yet seen it, suggests that if Johnson becomes PM he will seek to ensure that the UK joins the single market by becoming a member of the European Economic Area. If that happens, we will still be subject to EU law, and there will still be free movement of EU citizens in and out of the UK. 

I wonder what some of the people who voted Leave will say when they find out that there will be no change to EU immigration.........

34
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Melancholyflower on June 26, 2016, 09:52:04 PM »
Good post mikes. Thoughtful, and positive.

You say there's no legal Union, Dave. How then would you explain the function of the European Court of Justice?

As a result of its ruling on the gender equalisation of insurance premiums in 2012, every country in the EU had to accept its decision. It was widely denounced by all sectors of the UK insurance industry, and resulted in women having to pay higher insurance premiums, even though they statistically live longer than men and are a better risk for other forms of insurance, most notably motor.

If that's not legal Union, what is?
35
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Dave on June 26, 2016, 07:24:36 PM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-26/racist-incidents-have-u-k-worried-what-referendum-has-wrought

..... and I fear this is just the beginning.

I know many - probably most - Leave voters are not racist.  But some undoubtedly are - we have all seen and heard them being interviewed  in the street on radio and television news programmes.

I used to be really proud to be British.  But the way things are going, I'm starting to feel ashamed.  The racist genie is out of the bottle, and it could be very very hard to put it back again.   It's a pity this government has inflicted so many cuts on the police - I think we are about to need them. 
36
Miscellaneous / As I Remember-Memories of Local People
« Last post by MLHS on June 26, 2016, 07:18:08 PM »
Sometine during the period of some forty to fifty years ago, exact dates unknown, Mrs. Gladys Swindells, then Chairman of The Marple Antiquarian Society, which morphed into Marple Local History Society, recorded the memories of several local people. At that time some interviewees where in their 80s, thus the memories recalled, stretch back to the latter years of the nineteenth century.

The recordings have been recently transcribed by the team of Bill Beard, Ruth Hargreaves and Louise Thistleton and form the basis of the ‘As I Remember’, a new section of the Marple Local History Society website. These transcriptions are no mean feat, considering the quality of the recordings and the use of colloquialisms that have fallen from use, since the days of the recordings.
http://www.marplelocalhistorysociety.org.uk/stories-from-the-archive/memories-of-local-people.html

A local example of a valuable resource created by from the recording an oral history.

Furher afield, the British Library webpage of 'Accents & Dialects'
http://sounds.bl.uk/accents-and-dialects
37
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by CllrGeoffAbell on June 26, 2016, 06:44:09 PM »
Where can one find the online data such as Councillor Abell refers to? Is it just by Ward or even lower ie by Polling station.

I don't think it was publicly announced by individual ward, but it was my impression on the (rather long) night.  It is fascinating watching a count; it is a transparent process at each stage.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/eu-referendum-results-stockport-leave-11518208

I am of course saddened by the result and I think we'll live to regret it, but others have already articulated my thoughts well here; I won't add to them.
38
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Condate on June 26, 2016, 06:29:44 PM »
I think voters on both sides had to put up with a great deal of nonsense from both campaigns. This referendum did not show our democracy in a good light. The result was correct however. That said, it must be remembered that simply leaving the EU is not the final goal and does not automatically bring about the better Europe so many people on the leave side and indeed throughout Europe are looking for. It requires a lot of effort from the UK, but also a lot of effort from the many within Europe who want a better future than the EU could ever provide. In many ways it can be said that we in this country have done our bit and it is now for the people of the rest of Europe to complete the job.

39
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Dave on June 26, 2016, 06:24:52 PM »
EU Project = The political project (the Commission, the Parliament, the Courts etc) based in Brussels, Strasbourg and elsewhere that has political, legal and fiscal harmonisation as its core raison d'etre.

No it doesn't.  Beyond a requirement that member states are democratic and subject to the rule of law, there is no political harmonisation. In fact the treaties specify the EU's obligation to respect the national identities and the fundamental political and constitutional structures of the individual Member States.

The euro is a monetary union but NOT a fiscal one, and it never will be.  The fact that fiscal matters (i.e. tax and spending) have been left to indivdual member states in the euro zone is the main reason why it has failed.

None of the countries within these organisations [NAFTA, ASEAN] has abrogated their laws or fiscal systems to a dominant country or project.

Neither has the EU.  There is no fiscal union between any EU member states. Most laws are down to individual countries. EU laws and directives mainly relate to cross-border issues such as agriculture, fisheries and the single market. 

  All of the countries outside of Europe look at the EU Project as being one of the most bizarre aspects of Europe and can't understand why we would give up our sovereignty to Germany.

I am not nearly as well travelled as mikes, but I have been to many countries, and I have always got the impression that the EU is regarded with respect and envy across the world, as a shining example of how countries which fought one another for 2,000 years can find a way of living in peace and prosperity.   As for giving up our sovereignty to Germany, you could argue that the other eurozone countries have done that, but it's nonsense to suggest that we have, or ever would. 

our relationship has been one of trying to maintain our distinctive being and not be subjected to political, legal and fiscal union.   We had no say over the Maastricht or Lisbon Treaties.

See above.  There is no political, legal or fiscal union, and there never will be.  We were part of the drafting of the the Lisbon and Maastricht treaties, and we willingly signed them 

So it will not surprise me if other countries don't follow the UK out of the EU Project. 

Me neither.  That's one of the most worrying and dangerous things about our current situation - the break-up of the EU could re-awaken national rivalries and animosity the like of which we have not seen for decades. We could be entering some dark times.   

I would like to think that mikes' rose-tinted view of where we are bore some relationship to reality, but I fear it doesn't.  We are in the most almighty mess, and the referendum has caused damage that will take years to repair, if indeed it is ever repaired.  Hold on to your hat, mikes, because we're all in for a very bumpy ride! 

40
May 2016 Local Elections & Council Matters / Re: EU Referendum
« Last post by Cyberman on June 26, 2016, 05:44:15 PM »
Yes very well put, mikes. That's the first thing I've read that's made me feel remotely positive about this affair - the first coherent article backed by believable facts. I just hope the hit on our economy isn't so great that we are no longer worthy of partnership with these other countries. Unfortunately our manufacturing industry is now heavily reliant on European companies and I know from personal experience that they look after their own.

The reason I feel aggrieved is that I don't think the process was fair. I believe "Leave" voters were influenced by lies from the tabloid newspapers and the Leave proponents (who have now gone very quiet..). A significant number now realise this. You could say it's their own fault - but that doesn't make me feel better!
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