Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Local Elections (May 2019) and Council Matters => Topic started by: admin on March 08, 2019, 07:14:22 AM

Title: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: admin on March 08, 2019, 07:14:22 AM
It's no doubt that traffic and transport are one of the key issues for Marple folk.

Getting in and out of Marple at peak times is a nightmare. The roads are blocked, the trains are overcrowded and the parking around schools is dreadful.

Sometimes it's not much better during the day - on the junctions of Hibbert Lane / Church Lane / Stockport Road for example.

So what can we do about it?

What are the blackspots?

What are the short term improvements?

And what are the longer-term solutions and are they likely to happen?

Local Councillors and candidates in the May elections, what are your thoughts and intentions on this?

@CllrKennyBlair, @TomDowseMarpleSouth, @Malcolm Allan, @Steve Gribbon and @ColinMac, @Claire Vibert, @BeckySenior , @Aron Thornley , @Carolyn Leather  @chriswallis labour

Forum users, what are the worst problems that impact your daily life and what do you suggest is done about them.

Keep it polite as always please!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 08, 2019, 09:22:46 AM
A great thread to open on and well introduced, thank you.
For the record, given my clear reputation for complaining about things 90% of the time, I now don't even own a car, (it was kindly written off whilst parked by a speeding insurance recovery lorry coming over the brow of the hill at RoseHill Station and I chose not to replace it because it's less than useless around Marple).
I DO use public transport most weeks, even when I did own a car, getting TWO trains to the airport for my weekly commute to Aberdeen. When I get to Aberdeen I take the bus there from the airport to my place of work. During the week I walk each day to my office in Aberdeen and use the bus there again on a Friday to get back to the airport to fly home when my wife will the collect me from the airport. Aberdeen buses are cheaper, cleaner, more prolific and go where you need them to.
So what gets my goat: -
My list could go on, but I've probably provided enough to be going on with. On a positive note, my trip home on a Friday from the airport is now a breeze since the new bypass opened, proof indeed that new roads perhaps ARE the answer! Just a shame about the crazy junction at Brookside Garden Centre though, another design classic!.... (you didn't expect me to pay a compliment without any tinge of negativity did you ;) ?)
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: corium on March 08, 2019, 11:20:06 AM
Sorry if a similar post elsewhere - Jimbob & I tried to post at the same time & mine vanished somewhere!

Town Street & the bottom part of Longhurst lane are critical for buses & the emergency services to access Mellor yet regularly grind to a halt because of parked traffic.

Low cost solutions based around a pot of paint - though I realise it's not quite that simple:

1 - Remove the onstreet parking outside the Royal Scot - i.e. extend the double yellows

2- Convert at least the equivalent number of long stay spaces in Brabyns Brow car park to short stay - I view the primary purpose of Brabyns brow to support the Marple Bridge shops & services & leisure walkers, not the station users

3- Extend the double white lines at the bottom of Longhurst lane up to just before the old police houses - there is a creeping amount of parking on both sides of the road, one side was bad enough. This will affect 3 properties one of which had a parking space but chose to not use it , 2 I accept don't have any hope of provision.  This could be overcome by the use of residents permits during the day but I suspect this would be a lot more expensive.  Part of the problem is that residents park on the road because of experiences of getting blocked in, difficulties getting out etc. - if no one can park the access problem to their current provision at least partially dissolves itself.

4 - If it's permissible get the traffic wardens to book all oversized cars spillling out of the parking bays on Town street
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 08, 2019, 01:24:49 PM
Okay.  I'll state the obvious first.  The way to reduce traffic is to get people out of their cars and walking/cycling/car sharing/using public transport instead.

That's the obvious fact.

How you do that is another matter.  But first you need to understand why people are using their cars.  Where are they going?  Are there alternatives?  If there are, why are they not using the alternatives?

This in itself is not straightforward, but let's take an example that is easier than most.  Weekdays the car parks at or near Marple station are usually full.  Where have those cars come from?   

I can see some possibles.  They could have come from Mellor.  Or Compstall.  Or Chisworth/Charleworth.  Or from New Mills.

New Mills has two railway stations.  But I've heard it said that people drive to New Mills to get the train from Marple.  Why would they do this?  Well a peak time return to Manchester is £10.70, compared to £6.80 from Marple.  That's a HUGE difference to go one stop on a five minute journey.  With free parking, it's a no-brainer to drive to Marple or Rose Hill from the New Mills area.  Hey, it's £8.20 from Strines to Manchester.  The train fares are offering a massive encouragement for people to drive to the station in Marple, rather than potentially drive/walk/cycle to a closer one.  How many people are actually doing this, I don't know.  But if you could quantify it, you could see the impact on traffic.  And even a few people doing it will add to the traffic problems. 

If you lived in Mellor and wanted to get to the train you could get the hourly 375 bus to the station.  But the bus doesn't connect well with the trains.  If you wanted to get to Manchester, you could end up with a 15-20 minute wait at the station to change.  Or longer.  So what are you going to do?  Drive probably. 

Just trying to tackle the problems at the stations open up whole cans of worms that are difficult to solve. To get people from Mellor to the station you need more buses.  To get people to use New Mills instead of Marple, you need to reduce the financial incentives to use Marple.  That's either change the fares, or charge for parking.  And if you charge for parking, you then need to make most of the streets near the stations permit parking only else people will just park on the road.

I genuinely don't think there's any quick fixes on this.  Everything simple that can be done is basically a sticking plaster.  You need to get people out of their cars, and to do that you need a lot of changes to be made.

(For the record, I mostly work from home so have no commute.  When I do go to one of my employer's offices, I travel by train or bus.  I have a car.  It sits on the drive most of the time.  During the week I usually only drive to swimming pools in the evening - Avondale or Hazel Grove usually.  Neither can be easily reached by bus.  At weekend the car gets more use.  It might go to visit parents in Tameside.  Or to go shopping.  Or further afield.  At weekend I tend to go swimming in Romiley.  If the weather is good, I cycle.  I used to live in London and did not own a car.  I would be really happy if I didn't own one now..)
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: DLL on March 08, 2019, 01:29:22 PM
Reintroduce a train ... or tram from Marple & Rose Hill direct to Stockport (maybe with one or two stops enroute). Failing that bring on a bypass !!!

It took me 50 mins !! to get from Marple town centre to the junction of Hall St / St Marys Way yesterday morning. It should be a 15 / 20 min journey at best.

The situation can only get worse as more and more cars are introduced.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: amazon on March 08, 2019, 02:15:55 PM
A great thread to open on and well introduced, thank you.
For the record, given my clear reputation for complaining about things 90% of the time, I now don't even own a car, (it was kindly written off whilst parked by a speeding insurance recovery lorry coming over the brow of the hill at RoseHill Station and I chose not to replace it because it's less than useless around Marple).
I DO use public transport most weeks, even when I did own a car, getting TWO trains to the airport for my weekly commute to Aberdeen. When I get to Aberdeen I take the bus there from the airport to my place of work. During the week I walk each day to my office in Aberdeen and use the bus there again on a Friday to get back to the airport to fly home when my wife will the collect me from the airport. Aberdeen buses are cheaper, cleaner, more prolific and go where you need them to.
So what gets my goat: -
  • No obvious route to the airport by public transport, going via Piccadilly can have it's moments. Why didn't the new link road include the Metrolink?
  • Windlehurst & Hibbert Lane speed bumps, do NOTHING to improve the experience for cyclists or pedestrians, they actually make it more dangerous as motorists swerve to avoid the speed measures and the potholes, wrecking their car suspension and not keeping their eyes on the road ahead where the cyclists and pedestrians are; they're costly to maintain and are simply a way to deter motorists from using this route. The newest of these named as "Mitigation measures" following the opening of the new bypass being the most obvious deterrent that ever there was... what are they "mitigating" against... traffic!
  • Proposing to pedestrianise the main route through Marple Centre, is an honourable cause, but it only works if the vehicles have an alternative route; they don't!
  • Dan Bank has been a notorious problem for years, it and Windlehurst are the only two main routes in and out of Marple, and the latter has now been "mitigated". The new SEMMS bypass has increased traffic across from Hazel Grove to Bredbury, but our Green campaigners are adamant the £265k spend on a new cycle track along Otterspool is a better option than the full bypass we were denied, I've yet to see a cyclist on it; People need to wake up and smell the coffee, (and the fresh air), a bypass with moving traffic is far better than a congested commuter route with stationary cars belching out fumes around our schools, our homes and our pedestrianised "Village" centres.
  • Stockport Highways team, seem so intent on restricting traffic flow with their "improvements" rather than improving it. Narrower junctions, speed tables/humps/cushions, traffic light junctions with so many crossing options the traffic never gets a look in, the list goes on. All of these, stagnate traffic, cause queues and therefore increase polution and reduce air quality. Until there are tangible alternatives ACTUALLY available, the primary objective should be to improve traffic flow, not to restrict it.
  • Being charged to drop off at the airport, it's criminal and insulting, particularly when one considers the amount of investment given to the airport over the years from Greater Manchester council tax payers
My list could go on, but I've probably provided enough to be going on with. On a positive note, my trip home on a Friday from the airport is now a breeze since the new bypass opened, proof indeed that new roads perhaps ARE the answer! Just a shame about the crazy junction at Brookside Garden Centre though, another design classic!.... (you didn't expect me to pay a compliment without any tinge of negativity did you ;) ?)
And i thought you were sat in your rocking chair side of the fire complaining all the time .nice of you to introduce your self look forward to more postings from you ones we can understand .
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 08, 2019, 02:16:59 PM
Reintroduce a train ... or tram from Marple & Rose Hill direct to Stockport (maybe with one or two stops enroute). Failing that bring on a bypass !!!

It took me 50 mins !! to get from Marple town centre to the junction of Hall St / St Marys Way yesterday morning. It should be a 15 / 20 min journey at best.

The situation can only get worse as more and more cars are introduced.
do we have actual numbers for how many people want to get to Stockport from Marple, and if so, is their final destination Stockport or elsewhere?
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 08, 2019, 02:31:19 PM
I genuinely don't think there's any quick fixes on this.  Everything simple that can be done is basically a sticking plaster.  You need to get people out of their cars, and to do that you need a lot of changes to be made.
I genuinely do agree, but that can only be done once the alternatives are made more favourable, rather than making life for the motorist so miserable they are forced to make other arrangements or simply leave the area. The approach at the moment and certainly by Stockport Highways team seems to be the latter.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 08, 2019, 02:50:16 PM
I genuinely do agree, but that can only be done once the alternatives are made more favourable, rather than making life for the motorist so miserable they are forced to make other arrangements or simply leave the area. The approach at the moment and certainly by Stockport Highways team seems to be the latter.

Absolutely.  Experience shows that if you make a good, frequent system, people will use it.  They will flock to use it. 

Not long after it was it was first introduced, nearly half the rail journeys in Greater Manchester were being done by Metrolink, for example.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Steve Gribbon on March 08, 2019, 07:20:37 PM
Good afternoon

It's great that people are engaging with this forum in a positive way. I thought I would add some comments although these are not exhaustive but it does offer some insight into my thinking and what we as a Lib Dems group are involved in.

School issues: The main issues around 3 primary schools is clearly congestion.

St Marys-I have requested a meeting with the Headteacher to see if some educating of drivers can be done. @Claire Vibert this may be of interest to you as I recall you commenting that you drive your children to school and have seen the parking issues first hand.

Ludworth-I've been to Ludworth School to see the parking in the morning and have forwarded these details to the responsible Council officers asking for assistance to help neighbouring properties. The Marple North Councillors also held a local forum recently to discuss traffic with local residents which was very well received and we are looking at how to progress the concerns raised.

Rose Hill-There is presently a residents only parking scheme being put into place which I have requested an update on, this is for Elmfield Drive. Continual reports of inconsiderate/dangerous driving has forced this matter, a recent spate of protests at parent parking which I attended got onto Granada tonight.

For Marple Hall School I am visiting the eldest year soon, during this visit I am going to speak to them about their experiences and see what improvements they as responsible individuals can offer.

Rail link-I have tried to let people know of my role in TfGM as a scrutiny officer and the same for the rail/metrolink sub committee. I have spoken at length with Network Rail and they are coming to Marple soon to discuss possibilities to improve our transport links with me. I am also preparing a petition to gain public support demanding an improved infrastructure and hope that people will sign this regardless of political persuasion, this is about fighting for our area. I am also the lead for transport in the Marple Neighbourhood Forum and will be contacting GMCA for funding to improve our station facilities along with another Forum colleague.

On our Area Committee meeting as question was raised about the demand for a Stockport link, please go to 2hrs 02mins on for the reply I gave (I am very much in support of the idea) and the reasoning behind it:

https://stockport.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/407520

On the note of potential traffic calming, speed bumps will NOT be happening whilst I have any say in it. I think the evidence in Marple South show certain measures are only counter productive for the environment, vehicle and passenger welfare and speaking to Cllr Malcolm Allan and our candidate Becky Senior they are in agreement that these measures are not required.

My personal thinking has been to punish nobody for their choice of transport but to offer good a quality alternative which will only happen with effort and perseverance.

Like I said this isn't exhaustive but I hope it offers some examples of what we are trying to do to help where we live.

Kind regards

Steve
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2019, 06:05:48 PM
Steve, I clicked that link to the Area Committee, and I was impressed with what you had to say about the need for a rail link to Stockport, and the conviction with which you said it.

Traffic congestion at peak times on Dan Bank, Torkington Road, Dooley Lane, Bents Lane, Marple Road Offerton, are long-standing problems which we have all agonised about for so long, and there is no easy solution.  If there were such a solution we would have found it by now!

But a rail link (whether tram, tram-train or heavy rail) would undoubtedly go some way to alleviate the problem. And I believe it could be possible, by connecting the Marple to Manchester line at Reddish Vale with the Guide Bridge to Stockport line. 

A sample timing, derived from the actual times of current trains, works out like this:

Marple/ Rose Hill  08.00
Romiley               08.05
Bredbury             08.08
Brinnington          08.11
Reddish South      08.15
Stockport             08.20

20 minutes from Marple to Stockport (and vice versa) at any time of day.  And as the above sample shows, it provides excellent new connections for other parts of east Stockport too.   And a proper train service at Reddish South as well, at last!

Steve, if you can persuade tfgm and SMBC to conduct a feasibility study into such a scheme that would be a great step forward. 
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 09, 2019, 07:48:58 PM
Goodness where have you been all these month. Another sensible  positive voice returns.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 09, 2019, 09:34:05 PM
The big question about running a train to Stockport is whether there is capacity at Stockport station to take extra trains.  Stockport station is busy with lots of through trains.  There's only one platform for terminating trains, and whilst it is rarely used, the big question is can you get trains into it without causing problems for other services.

I don't have the answers to this, but train routing and station capacity is a very complex issue.  It isn't just as simple as connecting the lines.  There's a lot more to it.

A Metrolink connection using train-trams and a separate station could be an option though
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Dave on March 11, 2019, 05:21:44 PM
Goodness where have you been all these month. Another sensible  positive voice returns.

Thanks wheels - nice to have a friendly welcome  :)

The big question about running a train to Stockport is whether there is capacity at Stockport station to take extra trains.  Stockport station is busy with lots of through trains.  There's only one platform for terminating trains, and whilst it is rarely used, the big question is can you get trains into it without causing problems for other services.

I don't have the answers to this, but train routing and station capacity is a very complex issue.  It isn't just as simple as connecting the lines.  There's a lot more to it.

I'm sure that's so, Andrew. But where there's a will there is often a way........ And an obvious possible solution would be to open up the former bay platform at the north end of what are now platforms 1 and 2.

A Metrolink connection using train-trams and a separate station could be an option though.

Indeed, but it's really important, IMO, to provide a direct link in to mainline train services at Stockport - that will surely be one of the main reasons for anyone using a new rail connection from Marple, Romiley and Bredbury.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: corium on March 11, 2019, 07:01:53 PM
Might I suggest we focus on smallish short term developments here rather than rerun the rail argument, as passionate as I know people are about it. It would be nice to see some suggestions that can potentially be delivered within say, the elected term of those elected to serve us at the next electionss. So another starter for 10, we want people to use public transport yet if you are someone who works in Stockport on a Sunday (& these will tend to be people on a minimum wage) why is there no bus service for say an 0900 start?
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: amazon on March 11, 2019, 07:29:11 PM
Might I suggest we focus on smallish short term developments here rather than rerun the rail argument, as passionate as I know people are about it. It would be nice to see some suggestions that can potentially be delivered within say, the elected term of those elected to serve us at the next electionss. So another starter for 10, we want people to use public transport yet if you are someone who works in Stockport on a Sunday (& these will tend to be people on a minimum wage) why is there no bus service for say an 0900 start?
Could it be that a lot of the stores what are left dont open till later .
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: PhilB on March 11, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Something as simple as installing the latest technology available for SMART traffic light management could help traffic flow. Especially Dan Bank / 17 windows junctions. Where it always appears the lights are fighting each other..
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Jay on March 11, 2019, 08:11:49 PM
Something as simple as installing the latest technology available for SMART traffic light management could help traffic flow. Especially Dan Bank / 17 windows junctions. Where it always appears the lights are fighting each other..

Exactly the same problem on Hibbert Lane/Stockport Road, traffic lights fighting and backing up sometimes to Edwards Way!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 11, 2019, 10:42:09 PM
Might I suggest we focus on smallish short term developments here rather than rerun the rail argument, as passionate as I know people are about it. It would be nice to see some suggestions that can potentially be delivered within say, the elected term of those elected to serve us at the next electionss. So another starter for 10, we want people to use public transport yet if you are someone who works in Stockport on a Sunday (& these will tend to be people on a minimum wage) why is there no bus service for say an 0900 start?

There's no bus that early because Stagecoach don't see the demand for running one that early.  If they did, there would be one.

And therein your problem, and why even sorting out buses isn't a short term solution.  In every part of this country except Greater London, it's up to the bus companies to decide what services they want to run.  If they don't want to run a bus that gets in at Stockport for 9am, they won't run one.

Now Transport for Greater Manchester could subsidise Stagecoach to run those services.  They already subsidise 9 journeys a week on the 384 and 3 on the 383.  But they only have so much money.  If they subsidise more journeys on the 383 and 384, then that reduces the ability to subsidise other services.  What do you cut to add in that extra journey?

Even something that sounds simple, is not that simple.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 12, 2019, 08:45:03 AM
Something as simple as installing the latest technology available for SMART traffic light management could help traffic flow. Especially Dan Bank / 17 windows junctions. Where it always appears the lights are fighting each other..
Lights at the end of Torkington Rd and that ridiculous layout preventing people turning left because of the way the lanes are set out. Stockport Highways team at their best, but causing massive backing up, usually to way before Offerton Road in the mornings. You'd think anything to get people onto the new bypass more quickly would be a no brainer! Now that would be mitigation measures that SHOULD have been implemented, rather than using the money on speed tables along Windlehurst. Well done Stockport Highways :)
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: amazon on March 12, 2019, 10:15:22 AM
Lights at the end of Torkington Rd and that ridiculous layout preventing people turning left because of the way the lanes are set out. Stockport Highways team at their best, but causing massive backing up, usually to way before Offerton Road in the mornings. You'd think anything to get people onto the new bypass more quickly would be a no brainer! Now that would be mitigation measures that SHOULD have been implemented, rather than using the money on speed tables along Windlehurst. Well done Stockport Highways :)
Bye pass Bredbury would  help .i had just left school when that was talked about im not saying how old i am now .
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: corium on March 12, 2019, 10:47:09 AM
There's no bus that early because Stagecoach don't see the demand for running one that early.  If they did, there would be one.

And therein your problem, and why even sorting out buses isn't a short term solution.  In every part of this country except Greater London, it's up to the bus companies to decide what services they want to run.  If they don't want to run a bus that gets in at Stockport for 9am, they won't run one.

Now Transport for Greater Manchester could subsidise Stagecoach to run those services.  They already subsidise 9 journeys a week on the 384 and 3 on the 383.  But they only have so much money.  If they subsidise more journeys on the 383 and 384, then that reduces the ability to subsidise other services.  What do you cut to add in that extra journey?

Even something that sounds simple, is not that simple.

This is the sort of defeatist thinking which ensures nothing in Marple ever changes. Have a look at the bus timetables into Stockport from other directions. Everywhere else seems (based on a quick browse through the major routes) into Stockport  to manage to have a service. Are Marple workers particularly lazy? How do they get in now?  By getting people to drive them, by paying for taxis out of their minimum wage earnings - and thus adding to the traffic everyone is moaning about. I don't know but how long was it since Marple had an early  Sunday service? Have things changed since then? This is why I suggest it's worth our elected reps at least  asking the question rather than just letting things drift along as at present. The thread has been started to promote suggestions for action, not be satisfied with the status quo.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 12, 2019, 11:39:30 AM
This is the sort of defeatist thinking which ensures nothing in Marple ever changes. Have a look at the bus timetables into Stockport from other directions. Everywhere else seems (based on a quick browse through the major routes) into Stockport  to manage to have a service. Are Marple workers particularly lazy? How do they get in now?  By getting people to drive them, by paying for taxis out of their minimum wage earnings - and thus adding to the traffic everyone is moaning about. I don't know but how long was it since Marple had an early  Sunday service? Have things changed since then? This is why I suggest it's worth our elected reps at least  asking the question rather than just letting things drift along as at present. The thread has been started to promote suggestions for action, not be satisfied with the status quo.

I like to think of myself as a realist not a defeatist.

And the realism is that - thanks to cuts in grants from Central Government - councils are having to make major cuts in all manor of things.  It was announced the other week that the gym in Marple pool will no longer be open at weekends, and yesterday Life Leisure are no longer going to open most of the leisure centres on bank holidays due to funding cuts.  It was announced today that Marple fire station is going to go from 12 firefighters on the overnight shift to 9, because of funding cuts.  Police officer numbers are down.  The council's consulted on reducing park and verge maintenance.  There's a school in Reddish right now planning to close at lunchtime on Fridays because it can't afford to stay open.  Marple bus routes 305, 303 and 304 bus routes have already been axed because Transport for Greater Manchester have decided not to subsidise them.

This is the climate we're in.  Councils are strangled of investment by central government.  That impacts us all on many levels.  And it means that quite probably there isn't the cash to spend subsidising bus routes at 7am on a Sunday morning.

And - if we're really brutally honest - the problems with traffic in this town aren't really first thing on a Sunday morning.

This morning the 383/384 buses were running with up to 30 minute delays.  Why?  Because of the even heavier than usual traffic on the roads.  Why?  Because it was raining.  Everyone raced to their cars and drove them.

So here's a thing that can reduce traffic and it costs absolutely nothing.  Walk even when it's raining.

But being a realist, I feel quite confident in saying that probably won't happen.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: amazon on March 12, 2019, 02:07:10 PM
This is the sort of defeatist thinking which ensures nothing in Marple ever changes. Have a look at the bus timetables into Stockport from other directions. Everywhere else seems (based on a quick browse through the major routes) into Stockport  to manage to have a service. Are Marple workers particularly lazy? How do they get in now?  By getting people to drive them, by paying for taxis out of their minimum wage earnings - and thus adding to the traffic everyone is moaning about. I don't know but how long was it since Marple had an early  Sunday service? Have things changed since then? This is why I suggest it's worth our elected reps at least  asking the question rather than just letting things drift along as at present. The thread has been started to promote suggestions for action, not be satisfied with the status quo.
Why do we need early morning sunday service who would use it .
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: corium on March 12, 2019, 04:21:50 PM
Why do we need early morning sunday service who would use it .

As I made clear, those trying to get to work for 0900 and yes there are people who are required to do this; there are two in my house alone. Yes I know Sunday isn't a busy day. But the challenge to us all was to think about low cost & simple solutions. It's nice to sit and fantasise about the minutiae of new metrolinks, tram/ trains or whatever in yet another thread (& who is going to use them early on a Sunday morning?) but the challenge as I remember it was to think about low cost, relatively easy to implement suggestions which metrolinks are not.  So what (recent) evidence is there that there is no demand in Marple when it seems to exist in other areas of Stockport? or Are we wasting money providing unused transport elsewhere in the borough on early Sunday mornings? These (& I'm sure there are others people could think of) are the sort of questions we should be asking ourselves.

I'm not wedded to Sunday morning buses, it was just an idea which came to me, but it seems to me these are the sort of questions we should be asking in response to this challenge and to pick up an earlier comment from (I think) Andrew, to expect people to walk to say Hazel Grove or Bredbury (or perhaps cycle all the way to Stockport), which are the nearest bus pick up points I spotted on the timetables before embarking on a public facing 8/ 10 hour shift presupposes the existence of workplace shower facilities at their place of work is probably not too realistic.

I would however hope that everybody & anybodys this thread would stimulate some ideas that might actually be delivered in the short term. Just putting our heads in sand and saying things won't work or that a metrolink will solve all our problems isn't going to take a single car off the roads or remove a single inconveniently parked car this decade. So what are we going to do?
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: ringi on March 13, 2019, 05:27:40 PM
There are often car parked in Claremont Av for Marple Hall School from about 2:30 with the engine left running collecting children that are clearly able to walk.     The school seems to make no effect to send out staff to stop it.

There are also issues with parking each time the school does an event for parents with little consideration given to local who need to park when they get home from work.   Maybe the school should only be allowed to have parent events at a location with enough parking for their customers or be required to limit the event size to the size of their own carpark.

If there was an Aldi in Marple I would not be driving down Dan's Bank as often, maybe use some of the land near Rosehill Station.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Howard on March 13, 2019, 06:07:27 PM
There are often car parked in Claremont Av for Marple Hall School from about 2:30 with the engine left running collecting children that are clearly able to walk.     The school seems to make no effect to send out staff to stop it.

1) The school is there to educate children. Their responsibility stops at the school gates.
2) You don't think teachers have enough to do without acting as unpaid traffic enforcement officers?

Bring it to the attention of your local councillors and get them onto it.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Dave on March 13, 2019, 06:48:48 PM
Might I suggest we focus on smallish short term developments here rather than rerun the rail argument

OK, let's amuse ourselves doing that, but don't let's kid ourselves that introducing early morning buses on Sundays or limiting parking near schools is ever going to have a major impact on the shocking traffic congestion that we put up with round here - by which I mean between Marple and Hazel Grove, Offerton, Stockport and Bredbury.

Tackling that needs serious strategic thinking, not short-term sticking plaster measures.

Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 13, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
There are also issues with parking each time the school does an event for parents with little consideration given to local who need to park when they get home from work.   Maybe the school should only be allowed to have parent events at a location with enough parking for their customers or be required to limit the event size to the size of their own carpark.

Unless a street has parking restrictions, everyone has the right to park on the road.  Resident or visitor.  That's the way it is.  No one has the legal right to park outside, or near to their house on a public highway

Given how many school buses there are, I suspect parents picking children up are already in the minority.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Steve Gribbon on March 13, 2019, 07:18:00 PM
1) The school is there to educate children. Their responsibility stops at the school gates.
2) You don't think teachers have enough to do without acting as unpaid traffic enforcement officers?

Bring it to the attention of your local councillors and get them onto it.

I must confess I didn’t know this was an issue so thanks for bringing it up. I will get over in the next few days and see how bad it is. I get on well with a couple of staff members at MHS who I’ve met, I will have a chat with them about it too and see if anything has happened historically.

Steve

Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 14, 2019, 09:08:13 AM
OK, let's amuse ourselves doing that, but don't let's kid ourselves that introducing early morning buses on Sundays or limiting parking near schools is ever going to have a major impact on the shocking traffic congestion that we put up with round here - by which I mean between Marple and Hazel Grove, Offerton, Stockport and Bredbury.

Tackling that needs serious strategic thinking, not short-term sticking plaster measures.
well said, couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Howard on March 14, 2019, 10:25:53 AM
Marple is a victim of geography (three roads in and out of the town towards where most people work) and being a nice place to live and bring up kids or retire to.

I see there being two ways to address the traffic situation, one tactical and within the purview of local and regional government. The other is strategic and requires a complete change in mindset from the population and led by central government.

Locally and regionally, we need to invest in mass transit to make it reliable, frequent and affordable. We need to give preference to mass transit over individually-owned vehicles and make public transport more appealing and more convenient. I know that's going to upset people who feel it their inalienable right to use their own car whenever they want, and politicians will be frightened of doing so, but the only way to get people off the roads is to give them a better alternative.

The second way requires a change in thinking. In my (probably completely inaccurate) estimate, I reckon that at least 40% of office jobs can be done remotely, at least some of the time. There are technologies that allow collaboration and communication to be done seamlessly from wherever you are in the world. I wish that the government hadn't invested in the massively expensive HS2 and instead used the billions to run fibre to every property in the country (and require new house-builders to do the same). With investment in virtual and augmented reality and research into collaboration technology, we could get a lot of people (knowledge workers, students, teachers etc) off the roads yet keep them productive. It also requires training for managers and owners to help them develop policies which allow their staff to benefit from remote working yet maintain productivity.

Yes, I understand that many jobs require a physical presence, but many don't, and a change in mindset and investment, would have a far more widely-reaching effect than just locally upgrading public transport.

Maybe I'm a pessimist (perhaps, pragmatist) but I can't really see anyone being brave enough to do either of these things properly.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 14, 2019, 11:15:51 AM
I think there is merit in both approaches, (as I write this I'm working at home) but that neither in isolation is the answer. In addition, a third stream to this is to simply alleviate the known problems we have at the moment which cause congestion, using some of the suggestions that have already been made. This is also where I feel our Councillors should be focusing their efforts and perhaps can bring about actual change: -
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Melancholyflower on March 14, 2019, 01:32:41 PM
Marple is a victim of geography (three roads in and out of the town towards where most people work) and being a nice place to live and bring up kids or retire to.

I see there being two ways to address the traffic situation, one tactical and within the purview of local and regional government. The other is strategic and requires a complete change in mindset from the population and led by central government.

Locally and regionally, we need to invest in mass transit to make it reliable, frequent and affordable. We need to give preference to mass transit over individually-owned vehicles and make public transport more appealing and more convenient. I know that's going to upset people who feel it their inalienable right to use their own car whenever they want, and politicians will be frightened of doing so, but the only way to get people off the roads is to give them a better alternative.

The second way requires a change in thinking. In my (probably completely inaccurate) estimate, I reckon that at least 40% of office jobs can be done remotely, at least some of the time. There are technologies that allow collaboration and communication to be done seamlessly from wherever you are in the world. I wish that the government hadn't invested in the massively expensive HS2 and instead used the billions to run fibre to every property in the country (and require new house-builders to do the same). With investment in virtual and augmented reality and research into collaboration technology, we could get a lot of people (knowledge workers, students, teachers etc) off the roads yet keep them productive. It also requires training for managers and owners to help them develop policies which allow their staff to benefit from remote working yet maintain productivity.

Yes, I understand that many jobs require a physical presence, but many don't, and a change in mindset and investment, would have a far more widely-reaching effect than just locally upgrading public transport.

Maybe I'm a pessimist (perhaps, pragmatist) but I can't really see anyone being brave enough to do either of these things properly.

I can't think of a better summary of the wider issues.

I would add wholehearted agreement that HS2 should be scrapped and work instead should be dedicated to restoring old railway lines that worked so well pre-Beeching, and new ones to cater for housing built since Beeching. Sadly the wholesale massacre of these routes did not protect them from being built over. Marple badly needs a rail link to Stockport and I am pleased to see Steve Gribbon taking up the baton for this.

Also add that a special pet hate of mine is the constant parking on the double yellow lines outside of the Golden Dragon on Hollins Lane. These people are seemingly incapable of parking in the Asda car park and crossing the road to get their takeaways. It causes constant issues for traffic and I have never known it to be policed.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 14, 2019, 09:11:31 PM

Also add that a special pet hate of mine is the constant parking on the double yellow lines outside of the Golden Dragon on Hollins Lane. These people are seemingly incapable of parking in the Asda car park and crossing the road to get their takeaways. It causes constant issues for traffic and I have never known it to be policed.

Agree with you 100% also people parking in the same way outside Archers they just make it difficult and dangerous for people to cross the road.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: bat man on March 16, 2019, 08:04:41 AM
The traffic lights at the junction of Hibbert lane and Stockport road are out of sync with the lights at the junction of Hollins lane,this causes tail backs,can they be retuned.👍👍
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 16, 2019, 08:59:22 AM
Unusually I had to drive back into Marple yesterday during rush hour and the traffic was stacked back to just after the petrol station and Spice Tower Indian Restaurant.  It took me about 15 minutes to get home  shuffling slowly along.  I thought is this really such an inconvenience, what is so important that 15 minutes delay matters, what have I got to do that's so important.  A slight delay like this hardly merits the world is coming to an end Marple is gridlocked chants of some. It's just a very mild inconvenience we ought not to get it out of proportion.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Cyberman on March 16, 2019, 12:04:30 PM
Unusually I had to drive back into Marple yesterday during rush hour and the traffic was stacked back to just after the petrol station and Spice Tower Indian Restaurant.  It took me about 15 minutes to get home  shuffling slowly along.  I thought is this really such an inconvenience, what is so important that 15 minutes delay matters, what have I got to do that's so important.  A slight delay like this hardly merits the world is coming to an end Marple is gridlocked chants of some. It's just a very mild inconvenience we ought not to get it out of proportion.
In those 15 mins most vehicles are sitting there engines idling spewing out pollution. Not ideal for people in nearby houses, or those walking or cycling past.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: marpleexile on March 16, 2019, 02:04:46 PM
Unusually I had to drive back into Marple yesterday during rush hour and the traffic was stacked back to just after the petrol station and Spice Tower Indian Restaurant.  It took me about 15 minutes to get home  shuffling slowly along.  I thought is this really such an inconvenience, what is so important that 15 minutes delay matters, what have I got to do that's so important.  A slight delay like this hardly merits the world is coming to an end Marple is gridlocked chants of some. It's just a very mild inconvenience we ought not to get it out of proportion.

15 minutes as an occasional one off is a mild inconvenience. But if you have to do it daily (and most who do, will also have to do it going the other way in a morning), it's at least 2.5 hours a week, which is 130 hours a year. In other words, the equivalent of 16 work days sat in traffic a year!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 16, 2019, 10:08:00 PM
In those 15 mins most vehicles are sitting there engines idling spewing out pollution. Not ideal for people in nearby houses, or those walking or cycling past.

I certainly accept that a perfectly valid point. My point however is that most of us seem to think that our own time is much more valuable than it really is.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: adventurer_marple on March 17, 2019, 12:39:01 PM
I have recently seen more enforcement of the double yellow lines on Fern close near hollins lane. I have seen the same traffic warden on numerous occasions. People just park up without a care in the world and go over to Asda. There has been a few tickets issued.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Carolyn Leather on March 17, 2019, 07:11:54 PM
Sorry for the delay in posting a response to this.  I’ll start by saying that I’m not anti-car, and I acknowledge that there are always going to be journeys that need to be made by car. The problem is that there are far too many of them on the roads.  We now have only 11 years at the most to become carbon neutral if we are to prevent catastrophic climate breakdown (IPCC report 2018). We need massive investment in green public transport that is affordable and accessible as well as investment in safe cycling and walking routes. 
At a local level, I would:
Push for tram-trains to be introduced to Marple, with a link via Stockport, much sooner than was suggested in the SEMMS refresh document last year.
Support 20’s Plenty Schemes in residential areas which have been shown to decrease air pollution (unlike speed humps which increase it) and save lives when enforced.
Encourage Park and Stride schemes and road closures on certain roads during school drop-off and pick-up times.  There is increasing evidence that teenagers in particular are more receptive to learning later in the day.  If schools started later – say 9.30am – children could walk and cycle to school when the roads are quieter and the air is less toxic.  Those travelling by bus and car would have quicker journeys as they wouldn’t be stuck in rush hour traffic.  1 in 5 cars travelling in rush hour are doing the school run, so getting these off the road has to be a priority.
Encourage enforcement for pavement parking and other parking offences.  Advocate that Stockport Council introduces fines for cars parked with their engines running, particularly around schools, to improve air quality.  These measures would enhance the experience of pedestrians and encourage people to walk.
Investigate the possibility of a local shuttle bus scheme around the immediate area.  A major problem in Marple and Mellor which causes car dependency for many is the hills.  A more frequent, localized bus service would help those with reduced mobility and other health conditions to leave their cars at home and shop locally.  Marple centre is good, but it has the potential to be great.  People who arrive by foot in high streets tend to spend 6 times more than those who arrive by car.  (See Living Streets website)  Any measures that support people to leave their cars at home will boost the economy in Marple, and make it an even better place to live. 
 Encourage people to work from home where possible, and support the development of co-working spaces in Marple. 
Encourage car-share schemes
I would certainly not be voting for the A6-M60 bypass or any other major road schemes.  What I would do is make sure that the existing roads we have are well maintained.
Clearly this is not an exhaustive list, and I would work with colleagues and residents to find the most appropriate solutions to the issues we face in Marple. 

Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 17, 2019, 08:43:57 PM
if schools started later – say 9.30am –

 Ah so you want to trample over teaching staffs nationally agreed terms and condition. Have fun with that.What

I would do is make sure that the existing roads we have are well maintained.

How would you do this much of the budgets are centrally allocated over which you would have no control.


Train tram which thankfully has been kicked into the long grass is just about the worst think imaginable for encouraging the Marple public onto public transport it would result in much longer journey times, no cycle carriage facilities and no toilets. It would certain mean that many of us old wrinklies would drive to Manchester or to Disley or Stockport for a train.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 17, 2019, 10:41:02 PM
Train-tram kicked into the long grass?

That's funny as it's part of the recently published Greater Manchester Draft Delivery Plan 2020-2025
https://www.tfgm.com/2040/delivery-plan-2020-2025 (https://www.tfgm.com/2040/delivery-plan-2020-2025)

Still, hey, let's be honest.  Who on earth would want a Metrolink service running with at most a 12 minute frequency, running seven days a week, with services running late into the night, when they can have heavy trains running at most every 30 minutes, but that just happen to have toilets on them.  Because toilets are essential on a journey to the city that is at most 30 minutes long. Not that they're any use on a Sunday at Rose Hill cos there's no trains on Sundays from Rose Hill because - de, de, dah!, Northern Rail don't think there's enough demand to justify running them!

And you're right.  People will completely avoid such a high frequency service in order to drive to Manchester.  Especially given driving to Manchester takes only 30 minutes from Marple.  I mean, it's a no-brainer really isn't it?  Car's much faster.  And everyone's car has toilets too!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 17, 2019, 10:58:04 PM
Of course we can only look in wonder at the utter disaster that is the Metrolink network with its lack of toilets and cycle facilities.  Completely unused.  Runs around empty all the time.  You know, they run trams every SIX minutes on most of the lines, yet no one ever uses them!  Empty, every single one.  See, if only they'd had toilets...

Still, it means I always get a seat when I'm travelling to MediaCity...
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 18, 2019, 06:03:18 AM
Your so tight Andrew. The journey time from Shaw to Manchester changed from 17 mins to 58 mins following the introduction of the tram on their line. Certainly I during my treatment at Christies could not have done the journey to manchester without the toilets on the trains.

We old wrinklies have different needs Andrews, you have such pleasures to come. 😂
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 18, 2019, 06:44:10 AM

We old wrinklies have different needs Andrews, you have such pleasures to come. 😂

Well all I can say is that I have absolutely no idea how all the old people that travel long distances by bus with their free pass, cope.  Nor those who travel by London Underground (no toilets), or Merseyrail (no toilets), or indeed any major metro system anywhere in the world.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 18, 2019, 07:28:09 AM
Perhaps they are not coping in those areas I might suggest make up many of the daytime drivers.  Certainly I and I suspect many others would drive to Stockport to catch a train to Manchester rather than be subject to train/tram.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Dave on March 18, 2019, 11:23:49 AM
Train tram which thankfully has been kicked into the long grass

Oh no it hasn't - it's alive and kicking, and the trials in South Yorkshire have been under way, and running successfully, for about four months now. See https://www.metro-report.com/news/single-view/view/tram-train-service-to-rotherham-launched.html, and http://www.sypte.co.uk/tramtrain/

That is a two year trial, after which it will be assessed for possible wider application. So don't hold your breath - it will take time. But it's certainly not in any 'long grass'.

Re the entertaining debate between Andrew and Wheels, the lack of toilets on trams and tram trains is surely a complete red herring.  Every day in London and elsewhere, thousands of people travel long journeys on the tube without any difficulty. For example, central London to Heathrow (which no doubt many of us have done), is a one-hour journey.   Marple to Stockport will be about 20 minutes. Sure, there will always be a few people with special medical conditions for whom that is not possible, but for the vast majority (including us 'old wrinklies') it is a non-issue.

As for this: 
I and I suspect many others would drive to Stockport to catch a train to Manchester rather than be subject to train/tram.

.... that's what we are forced to do at the moment, and it's rubbish! To catch an early train from Stockport I have to leave home about an hour beforehand.  And you can't go to the loo in your car either, wheels!   ;D

Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 18, 2019, 01:36:30 PM
Entertaining as always Dave but wrong on this occasion,  which I admit is unusual,  but on this train/tram  I urge you and Andrew to reconsider for it is a truly dreadful idea.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Howard on March 18, 2019, 03:11:29 PM
Entertaining as always Dave but wrong on this occasion,  which I admit is unusual,  but on this train/tram  I urge you and Andrew to reconsider for it is a truly dreadful idea.

And, as usual, @wheels declares something with no reason or evidence given. If it's so dreadful, please enlighten us as to why that is.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 18, 2019, 03:23:01 PM
Oh dear Howard oh goodness me.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 18, 2019, 03:46:12 PM
Oh dear Howard oh goodness me.

Well that's me convinced!  Infrequent heavy rail it should be!  Death to Metrolink!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Howard on March 18, 2019, 03:52:05 PM
Oh dear Howard oh goodness me.

That's all right...take your time in answering. We can wait ;)
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Dave on March 18, 2019, 04:36:13 PM
And you can't go to the loo in your car either, wheels!   ;D

Entertaining as always Dave but wrong on this occasion,

Well you have got a well-equipped vehicle, wheels........   8)
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Howard on March 19, 2019, 03:34:17 PM
@wheels Still waiting...
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: corium on March 22, 2019, 10:17:53 AM
Two more thoughts over the last week, again conscious of what would be relatively cheap.

Do we need quite as many sets of traffic lights in the centre or could at least one set be replaced by a roundabout - perhaps the set in the middle near the baths? Wouldn't affect pedestrians per se. as their crossings would remain.  I think that the set by Asda might be better but recognise these do allow pedestrians to cross. Just thinking in terms of the effect of stop/ start traffic on the overall flow vs keeping it moving slowly but more regularly which is part of the thinking behind SMART motorways.

If we do get some form of Metrolink will it actually reduce the traffic flow...or will it encourage more people to drive into Marple to pick it up? Just a thought!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 22, 2019, 11:07:03 AM
Two more thoughts over the last week, again conscious of what would be relatively cheap.

Do we need quite as many sets of traffic lights in the centre or could at least one set be replaced by a roundabout - perhaps the set in the middle near the baths? Wouldn't affect pedestrians per se. as their crossings would remain.  I think that the set by Asda might be better but recognise these do allow pedestrians to cross. Just thinking in terms of the effect of stop/ start traffic on the overall flow vs keeping it moving slowly but more regularly which is part of the thinking behind SMART motorways.

If we do get some form of Metrolink will it actually reduce the traffic flow...or will it encourage more people to drive into Marple to pick it up? Just a thought!
And a good one!, the fewer traffic lights the better i.m.o.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 22, 2019, 01:37:28 PM


If we do get some form of Metrolink will it actually reduce the traffic flow...or will it encourage more people to drive into Marple to pick it up? Just a thought!

Or drive out of Marple to engage with heavy rail thus also creating extra car journeys. .
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Belly on March 22, 2019, 10:52:40 PM
Bloody Roundabouts - seemingly the motorists panacea for everything!

Roundabouts only work if they are big and they are very space hungry - the smallest 'proper' roundabout being 28m in diametre. Try fitting that anywhere in Marple Town Centre. They are also a nightmare for pedestrians - yet again car is king. Mini-roundabouts rarely work well where capacity on all approaches is an issue.

The reason why the swimming bath lights and Hollins lights conflict? Pedestrians using the crossings at the Hollins and taking away 'green time' for traffic at that junction. Ban pedestrians I say, getting in the way of our cars!

Marple is always going to struggle traffic wise. It only has three roads in and out and only one in the direction of where people want to travel to / from at rush hour. A chunk of the town is also quite hilly, making the bike a difficult choice for some. That said, the traffic is not really all that bad outside of peak hours. So my view is, if you want to live here and work miles away then either get in the queue that you are adding to, or try to work from home more regularly, or choose a work destination that can be accessed by train.

No point moaning about problems that we are all creating ourselves. And no point trying to pull up the drawbridge to new housing / development just to those of us who are lucky enough to already live here to carrying on making collectively poor travel choices.

That said - any new travel infrastructure would be welcome, beit Beelines, tram / trains, Brinning curve, etc. Always better to supply the carrots before applying the stick, but unfortunately Westminster doesn't seem to like investing in the north.
 
Two more thoughts over the last week, again conscious of what would be relatively cheap.

Do we need quite as many sets of traffic lights in the centre or could at least one set be replaced by a roundabout - perhaps the set in the middle near the baths? Wouldn't affect pedestrians per se. as their crossings would remain.  I think that the set by Asda might be better but recognise these do allow pedestrians to cross. Just thinking in terms of the effect of stop/ start traffic on the overall flow vs keeping it moving slowly but more regularly which is part of the thinking behind SMART motorways.

If we do get some form of Metrolink will it actually reduce the traffic flow...or will it encourage more people to drive into Marple to pick it up? Just a thought!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 22, 2019, 11:13:20 PM
Excellent post Belly. I think what we have to get people to accept is that there is a hierarchy of road space users being Pedestrians, Horse riders, cyclists,  public transport and at the bottom of the pile the private motorists.  Too often currently motorists think they should have priority there is an education process required to get motorists to understand that traffic management is not all about them.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 26, 2019, 01:00:53 PM
Excellent post Belly. I think what we have to get people to accept is that there is a hierarchy of road space users being Pedestrians, Horse riders, cyclists,  public transport and at the bottom of the pile the private motorists.  Too often currently motorists think they should have priority there is an education process required to get motorists to understand that traffic management is not all about them.
An interesting hierarchy suggestion there Wheels, I very much suspect however, that the private motorist, is more often than not commuting to work to pay their tax and makes up by far the largest contributor to the very infrastructure we all rely on. Always important to remember who pays the bills!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 26, 2019, 01:11:39 PM
No it's not Jimblob it's important to do the right thing not argue that those with money should have a louder voice. Just about everywhere else in the world pedestrians are at the top of the tree and the and motorist at the bottom when it come to traffic management. Why do you and some British individuals resist his. Road space belongs to us all, it's paid for out of general taxation. Road Fund Tax was abolished in the 1930s. You probably remember it,
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 26, 2019, 05:05:03 PM
it's paid for out of general taxation.
Exactly my point... general taxation. (I made no reference to road fund license) If I can't get to work because I'm stuck in a traffic jam, I can't pay the significant amount of income tax and council tax that pays for the very infrastructure I rely on. So it's rather frustrating when Stockport highways team (and others) waste money trying to do "the right thing", put me at the bottom of the pile and still manage to continually mess up.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 26, 2019, 06:57:37 PM
Exactly my point... general taxation. (I made no reference to road fund license) If I can't get to work because I'm stuck in a traffic jam, I can't pay the significant amount of income tax and council tax that pays for the very infrastructure I rely on. So it's rather frustrating when Stockport highways team (and others) waste money trying to do "the right thing", put me at the bottom of the pile and still manage to continually mess up.

But what gives you the right to be top of the pile?  Why is what you want more important than anyone elses needs?

Other people have to get to work, or to other places.  They do it by car, by bus, bike, foot, whatever.  Everyone has places to get to.  Everyone thinks their needs are the most important.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 26, 2019, 10:06:19 PM
Where did I state I expected to be at the top of the pile? I simply object to have been placed at the bottom by WHEELS
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 26, 2019, 10:33:12 PM
Where did I state I expected to be at the top of the pile? I simply object to have been placed at the bottom by WHEELS

Okay, why do you think you shouldn't be at the bottom of the pile?  Why do you think some other "group" should be at the bottom of the pile?

Although the notion of "group" is a bit absurd given people sit in multiple boxes.  E.g. in the course of a week I am a pedestrian, a motorist and - sometimes - a cyclist.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 26, 2019, 10:49:10 PM
At no point have I said anyone should be at the bottom of the pile. Can I ask that you read my first post to this thread  way back when it was set up where I explain that I also am a pedestrian and user of public transport. I'm simply objecting to the constant persecution of the motorist as the bad guy and the root cause of our transport woes when such accusations are unfounded, unjustified and wholly unfair
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Belly on March 27, 2019, 07:14:29 AM
At no point have I said anyone should be at the bottom of the pile. Can I ask that you read my first post to this thread  way back when it was set up where I explain that I also am a pedestrian and user of public transport. I'm simply objecting to the constant persecution of the motorist as the bad guy and the root cause of our transport woes when such accusations are unfounded, unjustified and wholly unfair
But by your own admission, motorists ARE the root cause of our transport woes - as there are too many of them on our roads at busy times, all driving their metal box (generally as single occupants) and causing congestion. If more of them chose to walk or cycle or get the bus or the train or car share or e-work then you wouldn’t have the congestion and queues and therefore nothing to moan about.

If you actually break it down, a large chunk of most drivers during peak hours are making journeys to work that don’t make a great deal of sense (in terms of location of origin and destination) and which are only possible because they have a car and so can make the journey. For them to complain that it’s then hard to make that journey, because of the thousands of others also making similar trips and clogging up the roads is an odd notion.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 27, 2019, 08:11:25 AM
But by your own admission, motorists ARE the root cause of our transport woes
I don't recall stating this anywhere either. The crux of my argument is that motorists are unfairly blamed (as you are doing now) as being the root cause. Every road "Improvement" made by Stockport highways is in favour of pedestrians and cyclists and typically penalises the motorist or is simply so badly conceived it fails to ameliorate congestion, sometimes making it worse. Many simply cannot, as you suggest...
chose to walk or cycle or get the bus or the train or car share or e-work then you wouldn’t have the congestion
as this is not a practical option. The general strategy appears to be to make choosing the car less and less favourable but this is being done without providing any viable alternatives first. Put the alternatives in place first, BEFORE you turn our roads into a no-go zone for motorists. Then and only then can you blame motorists for being the root cause of the problem if they STILL choose their car over other forms of transport.
Again, please read my first post to this thread, I frequently use public transport or walk and have taken a conscious decision to NOT run a car!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Carolyn Leather on March 27, 2019, 09:28:55 AM
There was a really interesting talk from Chris Boardman, Cycling and Walking commissioner at the GM Green Summit on Monday.  He showed what is possible when appropriate infrastructure to support cycling and walking is in place. 

One of the things he said is that 25% of cars on the road are travelling distances of less than 1km.  One of the reasons for this is that people do not feel safe walking because of dangerous junctions etc.  He showed how these could easily be sorted out with road markings, which currently the government doesn't allow. Hopefully this will change soon. Simple, cheap actions to make pedestrians and cyclists feel safer could make a huge difference to congestion on our roads.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Jay on March 27, 2019, 12:11:25 PM
Reliable public transport could be an option! What’s that saying about busses, you wait for ages for one to come along then three turn up at once!
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 27, 2019, 01:10:14 PM
Reliable public transport could be an option! What’s that saying about busses, you wait for ages for one to come along then three turn up at once!

Personally I have found the buses in Marple to be pretty reliable most of the time.  Only time it becomes an issue is when the traffic is bad.  When there are too many cars  Like rush hour...
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: wheels on March 27, 2019, 02:46:42 PM
I think the buses in marple and stockport keep very well to time this is another myth that they all come together.
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Carolyn Leather on March 27, 2019, 03:11:34 PM
The other issue is affordability.  You can drive into Stockport in the evening and park for free, or pay £4.80 for a return journey on the bus per adult.  The cost doesn't encourage people to use public transport at the moment, which needs to be addressed. 

Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: amazon on March 27, 2019, 04:08:36 PM
The other issue is affordability.  You can drive into Stockport in the evening and park for free, or pay £4.80 for a return journey on the bus per adult.  The cost doesn't encourage people to use public transport at the moment, which needs to be addressed.
If you are a regular user 0f Busses you would buy a weekly tck .
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: Dave on March 27, 2019, 05:19:05 PM
Reliable public transport could be an option! What’s that saying about busses, you wait for ages for one to come along then three turn up at once!

The problem with arguing that if buses were more reliable people would leave their cars at home, is that buses are unreliable (as andrewbowden points out) at peak times when the traffic is heavy.   So people will have to leave their cars at home first in order for the buses to become more reliable.  It's classic chicken-and-egg! 

And let's be honest, buses are not the ideal solution. Look at what has happened at Hazel Grove, where there was a huge investment in that park-and-ride car scheme, intended to persuade motorists to leave their cars and catch a 192 bus into Stockport or Manchester.   It just hasn't worked, and the car park is mostly empty (and so are the buses), because people simply don't want to go on a bus if they can help it.   But the big 'double-deck' car park at Hazel Grove station is full, because trains are quicker and more reliable than buses, so people will use them 

It puzzles me why the car park across the road at Marple station can't be extended - there's a huge area of unused rough grass at the back. If there were more capacity there, surely more people would park there and use the trains.   
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: jimblob on March 28, 2019, 08:53:13 AM
And let's be honest, buses are not the ideal solution. Look at what has happened at Hazel Grove, where there was a huge investment in that park-and-ride car scheme, intended to persuade motorists to leave their cars and catch a 192 bus into Stockport or Manchester.   It just hasn't worked, and the car park is mostly empty (and so are the buses), because people simply don't want to go on a bus if they can help it.
Has anyone ever been on the 192, it's depressing!
I have to say though, the park and ride in Hazel Grove was a great place to start to teach my daughter how to drive before she passed her test and bought a car.... YES, another car on the road!
Even using the Park & Ride for FREE parking to Stepping Hill with a shuttle bus for staff would be a better use of the space. Our hardworking NHS staff shouldn't have to pay to park at work
Title: Re: Traffic Issues in Marple - what can be done about them?
Post by: andrewbowden on March 28, 2019, 09:07:01 AM
Hazel Grove Park and Ride is also being used for a free shuttle bus to Lymm Park on Sundays and Bank Holidays
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/lyme/features/free-bus-service-from-local-park-and-ride-to-lyme

Not a massive use to Marple residents, but is an example of things you can do.