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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: Tcadams on April 22, 2017, 12:21:41 PM
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Hi,
I live just off Hollins Lane in Marple Bridge, and I've had a letter from the council through my door saying they're going to be carrying out "detailed highway surveying works" as the "initial part of a proposed highway scheme in the area"
Does anyone know what this proposed scheme might be? I've tried searching google and can't seem to find any reference to it on the council site or elsewhere.
A scheme to slow cars down on Hollins Lane and reduce parking on the double-yellows at the bottom would be great, but if it's the crazy half-rumour I heard a few months ago (that one of the councillors had suggested turning the whole of Town Street, Hollins Lane and Constable Drive into a big one way system) then that would be terrible!
Thanks
Tom
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Well something needs to be done as it's getting worse by the week. It needs to include the bottom part of Longhurst Lane, say up to the old police houses as this has been completely impassable to larger vehicles (think the 375 bus & emergency vehicles) several times in recent weeks with on at least 2 occasions I'm aware of, the 375 having to abandon the trip up the hill.
An effective & relatively simple start would be to remove the on-street parking slots opposite South 7. Though these are valuable spaces they are the biggest single cause of of the problems I see.
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Would parking enforcement CCTV mounted on the fount of the 375 bus help?
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I agree that parking on lower Longhurst Lane is an increasing problem, but many of those houses don't have drives or garages, so they have got to park somewhere, I guess.
But the main problem in Town Street is caused by delivery vans parking on double yellow lines. If the double yellows were strictly enforced Town Street would be fine.
Corium writes An effective & relatively simple start would be to remove the on-street parking slots opposite South 7. Though these are valuable spaces they are the biggest single cause of of the problems I see.
Actually there is something to be said for retaining those parking spaces, as the effect of them is to slow down traffic through the village. If those parking spaces were removed some drivers would go too fast.
As for the survey on Hollins Lane, I seem to recall that the big field at the top of the lane , bordered by Hollins Lane and Ley Lane, was zoned for new housing in that Greater Manchester strategic housing plan. If so, there would obviously be an impact on traffic on Hollins Lane.
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I agree that parking on lower Longhurst Lane is an increasing problem, but many of those houses don't have drives or garages, so they have got to park somewhere, I guess.
More houses than might appear have parking but I know some don't use it so they don't get blocked in. if you go there c 2100 there is little parked traffic & none that causes a problem suggesting that the problems are essentially the volume trying to use Marple Bridge. But I agree enforcement might be an appropriate additional first step
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Apologies Dave managed to combine my response with your quote.
Sorted - Admin :)
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The 5 parking spaces on Town street opposite South Seven are definitely part of the problem. I drive through at least once or twice a day at varying times and there are always hold ups caused by these few spaces. It also appears that often these spaces are taken by vehicles belonging to some of the local shop and business owners and their staff, the same cars and vans invariably are parked there. The small car park opposite Sherlocks hairdressers is also used by people working in Marple Bridge as it costs only £1.80 to park there all day.
The numbers of cars parked on Longhurst lane has definitely increased during the 12 years I have lived in Mellor which is possibly due to the changing demographic of the village from older people without cars to younger, more affluent families with more than one car.
There is also the problem of either abject stupidity or bloody-mindedness with a rise in the numbers of vehicles parked directly opposite each other, sometimes with wing mirrors folded in , which cause more hold ups.
The 375 bus is now bigger than it used to be despite smaller numbers using the service and Stagecoach will on occasion run a double decker on this route which is simply for their own scheduling convenience as the capacity is certainly not required on this route.
The root cause of all the problems of parking in this area however continues to be the free parking on the first Brabyns Brow car park which should be the natural place for people to park who work and shop in Marple Bridge to park. This facility is undoubtedly exploited by commuters travelling from Marple Station and there are few spaces left after 7.30 to 8 am. It is also apparent that many Derbyshire residents from New Mills and similar places take advantage of cheaper rail fares from Marple ( TFGM funded ! ) and free parking in a car park maintained by Stockport MBC using Stockport council tax revenue. A radical but effective solution would be to make that car park a 4 hour maximum stay from Monday to Friday.
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And an even better solution would be to extend the car park behind the Purple Pakora so that more rail commuters can park there, thereby freeing up space nearer the village for the rest of us.
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The 5 parking spaces on Town street opposite South Seven are definitely part of the problem. I drive through at least once or twice a day at varying times and there are always hold ups caused by these few spaces. It also appears that often these spaces are taken by vehicles belonging to some of the local shop and business owners and their staff, the same cars and vans invariably are parked there. The small car park opposite Sherlocks hairdressers is also used by people working in Marple Bridge as it costs only £1.80 to park there all day.
The numbers of cars parked on Longhurst lane has definitely increased during the 12 years I have lived in Mellor which is possibly due to the changing demographic of the village from older people without cars to younger, more affluent families with more than one car.
There is also the problem of either abject stupidity or bloody-mindedness with a rise in the numbers of vehicles parked directly opposite each other, sometimes with wing mirrors folded in , which cause more hold ups.
The 375 bus is now bigger than it used to be despite smaller numbers using the service and Stagecoach will on occasion run a double decker on this route which is simply for their own scheduling convenience as the capacity is certainly not required on this route.
The root cause of all the problems of parking in this area however continues to be the free parking on the first Brabyns Brow car park which should be the natural place for people to park who work and shop in Marple Bridge to park. This facility is undoubtedly exploited by commuters travelling from Marple Station and there are few spaces left after 7.30 to 8 am. It is also apparent that many Derbyshire residents from New Mills and similar places take advantage of cheaper rail fares from Marple ( TFGM funded ! ) and free parking in a car park maintained by Stockport MBC using Stockport council tax revenue. A radical but effective solution would be to make that car park a 4 hour maximum stay from Monday to Friday.
I know of some local residents who use that car park as well. Short stay could improve things but if workers in Marple Bridge use it all day, then it would penalise them and we'd be back where we are regarding Town Street. Tricky.
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After I put up my post , i realised that the 4 hour limit would penalise some. Perhaps some form of all day pass could be issued in limited numbers to businesses in Marple Bridge. I have often thought that an innovative scheme of passes for car parks in Stockport and other vouchers could be included in our Council tax.
Extending the car park behind the Purple Pakora would be a start but i fear would just encourage more use by rail users from outside the Marple area. Also there is question of cost, I am not sure who owns that car park. Is it Stockport MBC or perhaps Network Rail.
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The problem with station car parking is going to be a case of supply and demand. The greater the supply, the more demand there will be. There will never be enough parking capacity at a station like Marple. The car parks get full, cars spill into surrounding streets and car parks, and lo, the cycle continues.
I suspect part of the answer is to better channel passengers to the station by public transport. But that requires buses to service reliably and frequently to the places people want to go to, and would need a good integrated ticketing system (e.g. London's Travelcard system where your season ticket covers all modes of transport.) We have neither. If you were commuting from Mellor, would you wait for your hourly 375, or would you drive to the station? I know what I'd do.
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It is also apparent that many Derbyshire residents from New Mills and similar places take advantage of cheaper rail fares from Marple ( TFGM funded ! ) and free parking in a car park maintained by Stockport MBC using Stockport council tax revenue. A radical but effective solution would be to make that car park a 4 hour maximum stay from Monday to Friday.
A better solution to the New Mills (and similar) residents coming to Marple would be to extend the area covered by TFGM to include the likes of New Mills which, practically speaking, are far closer (geographically and culturally) to Manchester than they are Derby.
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A better solution to the New Mills (and similar) residents coming to Marple would be to extend the area covered by TFGM to include the likes of New Mills which, practically speaking, are far closer (geographically and culturally) to Manchester than they are Derby.
Fair point - that way there would be no incentive in driving over to Marple.
The Brabyns short stay pass idea is also worth exploring.
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I suspect part of the answer is to better channel passengers to the station by public transport. But that requires buses to service reliably and frequently to the places people want to go to, and would need a good integrated ticketing system (e.g. London's Travelcard system where your season ticket covers all modes of transport.) We have neither. If you were commuting from Mellor, would you wait for your hourly 375, or would you drive to the station? I know what I'd do.
This is a good point, it's the reason most people commute into Manchester by train in the first place. Whilst an integrated ticket system would be certainly nice to have, it woud be good if the existing public transport was joined up. For instance , the hourly 375 from Mellor arrives in Marple Bridge conveniently just after the train leaves and does not dovetail with the 383/384. There is no service after 6pm and none on a Sunday. It pointlessly terminates at nowhere in particular on Shiloh road ( carefully avoiding continuing an extra mile to Rowarth which has to put up with a twice weekly service) and then it waits on Shiloh road for a few minutes presumably to ensure that it does not link with any other trains or buses. Its route overall is tortuous, if you wanted to travel to Stockport you would need to take a supply of food and a sleeping bag as it takes so long.
The solution would be a smaller vehicle , more frequent and working on a hail and ride basis.
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Even if the bus and train timetables were integrated (in theory), in practice the traffic congestion between Marple and Stockport is so bad that you can't rely on the buses running to time, so the connections would not be reliable. For example, the 375 mentioned by Moorendman often arrives at its terminus on Shiloh Road some time after it is supposed to have started its return journey to Stockport.
Moorendman refers to a bus service to Roworth, but that stopped a few years ago because no-one used it.
I once asked Stagecoach why they run such big buses up to Mellor, when there are never more than two or three passengers. I pointed out that a minibus would be sufficient, and would use much less fuel. They replied that they haven't got any minibuses!
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Moorendman refers to a bus service to Roworth, but that stopped a few years ago because no-one used it.
Who would when it only ran twice a week!
No further questions Mlord
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This is a good point, it's the reason most people commute into Manchester by train in the first place. Whilst an integrated ticket system would be certainly nice to have, it woud be good if the existing public transport was joined up. For instance , the hourly 375 from Mellor arrives in Marple Bridge conveniently just after the train leaves and does not dovetail with the 383/384. There is no service after 6pm and none on a Sunday. It pointlessly terminates at nowhere in particular on Shiloh road ( carefully avoiding continuing an extra mile to Rowarth which has to put up with a twice weekly service) and then it waits on Shiloh road for a few minutes presumably to ensure that it does not link with any other trains or buses. Its route overall is tortuous, if you wanted to travel to Stockport you would need to take a supply of food and a sleeping bag as it takes so long.
The solution would be a smaller vehicle , more frequent and working on a hail and ride basis.
Shiloh Road is one of the most bonkers bus terminuses I have ever seen. I have often wondered why it terminates there, and if anyone ever alights or boards there (I did once. It's got a lovely view of the hills.)
It feels like it's just somewhere to stash a bus for a few minutes, and creates some "busy" work for the driver. If you study the timetable, the bus leaves Stockport and gets back again just over 2.5 hours later. Just enough time for the driver to have a rest break in the depot (or changeover) before they are out again!
An extension to Rowarth would be lovely but it's also over the county border so why would Transport for Greater Manchester bother?
Still we can dream.
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If the 375 used the "official" turning circle near the Devvy, Moor end would have no service. We use it to get up there for walking or visiting friends, though more to the the 5 ways junction at Shiloh. At this time of year quite a few walkers use it.
Though the 375 users are indeed generally sparse this is not the case earlier in the journey - try living in Moor End & getting on it at Aquinas in the rush hour - no chance! It can be pretty packed at Stepping Hill at times. Whilst using a double decker may be madness most of the time even the small bus which does run on the route, albeit rather randomly, has trouble getting through Marple Bridge so the double decker issue may be a bit of a red herring in terms of access.
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If the 375 used the "official" turning circle near the Devvy, Moor end would have no service. We use it to get up there for walking or visiting friends, though more to the the 5 ways junction at Shiloh. At this time of year quite a few walkers use it.
Though the 375 users are indeed generally sparse this is not the case earlier in the journey - try living in Moor End & getting on it at Aquinas in the rush hour - no chance! It can be pretty packed at Stepping Hill at times. Whilst using a double decker may be madness most of the time even the small bus which does run on the route, albeit rather randomly, has trouble getting through Marple Bridge so the double decker issue may be a bit of a red herring in terms of access.
I live in Moor End and can speak from my experience. I can see that the 375 would be crowded at the beginning of its long journey but thats more a question of routing, inasmuch as Stagecoach are simply trying to cover its obligations with one bus. I am not quite sure what you mean about the "Red Herring" of the double decker. I actually asked a driver of one as he struggled up Moor End road why he was there and he said it was because Stagecoach wanted to use a bus that had come free from a school run. Not good for the driver or the users of Moor End Road but expedient and cost effective for Stagecoach.
In response to Andrew's point:
An extension to Rowarth would be lovely but it's also over the county border so why would Transport for Greater Manchester bother?
The county border is not a strict demarcation , Stagecoach run buses to Hayfield and New Mills both examples of destainations outside Greater Manchester
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The county border is not a strict demarcation , Stagecoach run buses to Hayfield and New Mills both examples of destainations outside Greater Manchester
They do indeed. Difference is that those services are commercially operated, whilst the 375 is heavily subsidised for its run between Marple and Mellor (the rest of the route is commercially operated, without subsidy.)
Subsidised routes can cross the boundary however given such routes are paid for out of the taxes of Greater Manchester residents, such routes tend to be subsidised by the authorities on both sides of the border. For example, the 394 is funded by both Derbyshire County Council and Transport for Greater Manchester. Unless Derbyshire wanted in on the 375 (highly unlikely given they) there is no real incentive for TfGM to splash the cash.
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Shiloh Road is one of the most bonkers bus terminuses I have ever seen. I have often wondered why it terminates there, and if anyone ever alights or boards there (I did once. It's got a lovely view of the hills.)
It's a great starting point for a walk - for example via the Little Mill, over the 'shoulder' of Lantern Pike, down past Little Hayfield in to Hayfield, passing a few good pubs. And you can then return on the 358 from Hayfield. A fine afternoon out.
I once asked a bus driver why the 375 goes along Shiloh Road instead of turning round at Five Lane Ends, as some buses used to years ago. The driver said that in the past, when the buses had conductors, part of the conductor's job was to act as 'banksman', walking behind the bus as it turned round to ensure that it did so safely. Now that there is no conductor, the 'powers that be' deemed Five Lane Ends not to be a safe place for the bus to turn round, and given the speed at which some cars drive round that bend, you can see why.
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I am not quite sure what you mean about the "Red Herring" of the double decker.
This related to my original comment which was about the congestion at the bottom part of Longhurst Lane, sorry I didn't make this clear. Whilst a double decker certainly doesn't help, even the small shuttle type buses come to a grinding halt if there are cars parked on both sides of the road. I just didn't want the impression to be given that getting rid of double deckers would solve the problems at that point.
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Thanks to Andrew for the informative explanation about the 375. Is this sort of knowledge in the public domain or are you "in the know" professionally?
Thanks to Corium for your clarification.
To build on Dave's point, a more pubby walk starts from the Beehive in New Mills, takes in the excellent Beer Shed in New Mills then continues along the Sett Valley trail ,via the Printers Arms at Thornsett before arriving in New Mills where you can take your pick from the George, Pack Horse , Royal Hotel or Dutsons. Ten past the hour up until 11 pm your 358 chariot awaits to bring you back to Marple. Three and a half miles and Four Good beer Guide ticks ( and a shoe in for next years guide for the Beer Shed ) - whats not to like?
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Thanks to Andrew for the informative explanation about the 375. Is this sort of knowledge in the public domain or are you "in the know" professionally?
Just nosey. Amazing what you can find in the depths of the internet,!
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That's my understanding too.
People are generally using the train more (except when there is industrial action!) and bus less.
375 and 394 are subsidised services and we nearly lost the 394.
An update on that - Derbyshire CC announced they were putting some money into subsidised bus services (previously said they may cut it completely) but where and how much is still up in the air. Watch this space.
Councils have so little non-statutory spending left that bus services are a consideration.
Re Town St - I managed to pull the stop line back to help buses turn into Town St but it is of course still crowded for the next bit. Cllr Malcolm Allan is looking at the parking across Marple Bridge and a few changes will come in soon.
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@CllrGeoffAbell you mean the changes we agreed at Marple Area Committee, that I thought all three Marple North Councillors looked into and worked on?
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I've just been alerted to this debate on the forum. We ran a public survey last year of these issues and put round a proposed action plan for comment, along with a rationale for the proposals. We've been working on that plan for all this time and finally have something that will happen. This includes an increase to the long stay fees at the two pay and display car parks at the end of Town Street, and releasing some disabled bays for short stay parking on Brabyns. There are a good number of other spaces for disabled drivers and we reckon with two less on Brabyn's there are still 8 on or near Town Street. We surveyed use before proposing a change. The Town Street parking by the pub is on our list of secondary actions, once we get the first ones done. We are also in discussion with the rail authorities about extending the Purple Pakora Park but if we do that, we'd recommend converting some of Brabyns Brow from long stay to short stay.
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Thanks for the update Malcolm - really useful and encouraging. especially this bit:
We are also in discussion with the rail authorities about extending the Purple Pakora Park but if we do that, we'd recommend converting some of Brabyns Brow from long stay to short stay.
However, re this bit: The Town Street parking by the pub is on our list of secondary actions, once we get the first ones done.
... I think we should think carefully before getting rid of those parking places, because they act as a helpful traffic calming measure. Town Street has many pedestrians and the pavements are quite narrow in places, and the last thing we want is traffic speeding through the village.
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... I think we should think carefully before getting rid of those parking places, because they act as a helpful traffic calming measure. Town Street has many pedestrians and the pavements are quite narrow in places, and the last thing we want is traffic speeding through the village.
Even without the parking spaces there is no chance of this. There are already some aggressive road humps at one end, the number of oversized cars sticking out of too small parking bays, lorries, horse riders and people letting people off at the parking surgery will all regulate the speed. This is no time for half measures, it's grinding to a complete halt on an almost daily basis now.
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If it's proposed to remove the short stay parking from outside the Royal Scot and it happens it would be a disaster for local businesses not to mention the traffic calming it provides as mentioned earlier in this thread.
There is space to fit two further spaces in the car park next to the chemist.
An extension of the car park behind the PP would solve some issues.
Could the bus stop be moved from outside Browse on Town Street, maybe to opposite Sherlocks where the car park is - that would create two additional street spaces.