Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: the rover on June 20, 2012, 02:49:48 PM

Title: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: the rover on June 20, 2012, 02:49:48 PM
I remember seeing somewhere that the Sorting Office is to close? If this is so, then what will happen to the Postmen and women? Where will they have to go to collect the mail and how will this affect the post delivery? Does anybody know anything?
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 20, 2012, 02:56:27 PM
I seem to recall initial proposals were to take a unit on the Hollins.

Relocation is a feature of the Chadkirk St delevopment as I understand it.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: amazon on June 20, 2012, 03:25:54 PM
I seem to recall initial proposals were to take a unit on the Hollins.

Relocation is a feature of the Chadkirk St delevopment as I understand it.

Why should they move they still have a long lease left .
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 21, 2012, 09:42:59 AM
Why should they move they still have a long lease left .

Like any sitting tenant, they will no doubt be very happy to move if they can find acceptable alternative premises, and if their current landlord (i.e. SMBC in this case) makes it worth their while by paying them to go.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 21, 2012, 11:50:04 AM
Well yes the removal of the sorting facility will clearly make it a more marketable site. So to be welcomed I would have thought.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 21, 2012, 01:25:17 PM
I seem to recall initial proposals were to take a unit on the Hollins.

Relocation is a feature of the Chadkirk St delevopment as I understand it.

Why should they move they still have a long lease left .

If the sorting office doesn't go then the Chadwick Street site cannot be developed in the way that best supports the Council's argument against Asda. Oversimplified, you could say do you want the sorting office to leave town or do you want Asda to leave town? Yet again, even if the sorting office leaves there is no guarantee that Asda will. In reality you could end up with two supermarkets one where the sorting office is and one on Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: amazon on June 21, 2012, 02:21:10 PM
I seem to recall initial proposals were to take a unit on the Hollins.

Relocation is a feature of the Chadkirk St delevopment as I understand it.

Why should they move they still have a long lease left .

If the sorting office doesn't go then the Chadwick Street site cannot be developed in the way that best supports the Council's argument against Asda. Oversimplified, you could say do you want the sorting office to leave town or do you want Asda to leave town? Yet again, even if the sorting office leaves there is no guarantee that Asda will. In reality you could end up with two supermarkets one where the sorting office is and one on Hibbert Lane.
We need another supermarket as a alternative to the ripoff prices under stocked shelves of the coop,

Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 21, 2012, 02:57:55 PM
Its not just the Co-op the independents on Marple serve the town poorly. Shutting early, closing on Wednesdays and the customer service in some of them is dreadful.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Barbara on June 21, 2012, 03:03:26 PM
Rather a sweeping statement, Wheels!  I think we are very lucky with some of our local independent shops, and just wish some of the ones that used to be there had survived!
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 21, 2012, 03:16:31 PM
IN order to survive local traders have to compete is some way with the supermarkets. That has to be on product or service, its no good Archers for example having great bread if I can't get it when I need it say on the way home from work that just drives me to Sainsburys and there are other examples. To compete they have to look at their customer service and opening hours.

Nowadays to have a shopping centre closing down at 5pm ish is doing nothing to attract support.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: amazon on June 21, 2012, 06:44:11 PM
IN order to survive local traders have to compete is some way with the supermarkets. That has to be on product or service, its no good Archers for example having great bread if I can't get it when I need it say on the way home from work that just drives me to Sainsburys and there are other examples. To compete they have to look at their customer service and opening hours.

Nowadays to have a shopping centre closing down at 5pm ish is doing nothing to attract support.

But archers must start early morning  baking so do you think if the local shops stayed open to say seven every night they would be busy .idont think so .the coop wanted to open at six in a morning but the staff won't have it .you have to provide what people want like you say and that's a alternative to the coop I don't think the texaco garage now stays open late at the bottom of Marple .marple needs to change quick .
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 22, 2012, 04:22:14 PM
We do need another supermarket in Marple. The co-op has a monopoly and their prices are very high, their variety has none, and their sell by dates are narrow.

In my view a medium sized to small supermarket on Chadwick street would benefit the community of Marple it might bring some extra vehicular traffic but perhaps that would be the price to pay.

As well as this some of our local traders need to up their game. Some of their service is poor and some of their opening times are restrictive. Closing half-day on Wednesday is outdated practice and only drives their customers into the arms of Sainsbury's and Morrisons.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 22, 2012, 06:58:27 PM
Agreed totally. They need to look at their customer service particularly some of them are just down right rude.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 23, 2012, 11:27:16 AM
Its not just the Co-op the independents on Marple serve the town poorly. Shutting early, closing on Wednesdays and the customer service in some of them is dreadful.
Goodness me! How unreasonable of the local shop-keepers to close on Wednesdays and not to stay open until midnight.

I assume you only work(ed) a five day week and are/were allowed to go home at 5pm.

As a child of the 50s and 60s when my parents worked hard in their shops I think I can speak knowledgeably in support of "small" shop-keepers. Half day (and even all-day closing) on Wednesday or any other day isn't just an excuse for lolling in the garden or watching Jeremy Kyle. Most shop-keepers use it for business purposes - stock replenishment, visiting the suppliers, doing the books, cleaning the premises, etc. And even (now this is really unreasonable) some of them actually spend a little time with their children and attend to their needs on their day "off".

The Working Time Directive is a pipe dream to the average one-man retail business.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 23, 2012, 11:39:54 AM
We do need another supermarket in Marple. The co-op has a monopoly and their prices are very high, their variety has none, and their sell by dates are narrow.

In my view a medium sized to small supermarket on Chadwick street would benefit the community of Marple it might bring some extra vehicular traffic but perhaps that would be the price to pay.

As well as this some of our local traders need to up their game. Some of their service is poor and some of their opening times are restrictive. Closing half-day on Wednesday is outdated practice and only drives their customers into the arms of Sainsbury's and Morrisons.
The Co-op does have it's advantages. Since coming back to live in Marple I've been using the Co-op and my weekly bills have dropped considerably. There is far less temptation to buy things I might need at some time in the future and I don't waste the petrol that I did when I used to make detours to Ad-tes-bury's supermarkets.

Where I used to live there were no longer any independent bakers, delis, flower shop, cafes, sweet shops, newsagents, or greengrocers because they'd been driven out by the "big boys". Even the hairdressers, dress shops, hardware shops and jewellers were disappearing and the historical market was on its last legs because hardly anyone came into the town centre to shop anymore.

Be careful what you wish for.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 23, 2012, 04:11:25 PM
I don't know where Henrietta used to live, but many years ago I lived in Cheadle Hulme.  Since then, Waitrose has arrived in Cheadle Hulme, and this seems to have done no harm at all to the local shops.  On the contrary, many are thriving, and the excellent local butchers Pimlotts report that 'The coming of Waitrose to the centre of the village has helped keep us busy, because local people tend to shop locally.’  See http://cheshire.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/a-choice-location--we-visit-cheadle-and-cheadle-hulme-39666/
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 23, 2012, 05:08:20 PM
Its not just the Co-op the independents on Marple serve the town poorly. Shutting early, closing on Wednesdays and the customer service in some of them is dreadful.
Goodness me! How unreasonable of the local shop-keepers to close on Wednesdays and not to stay open until midnight.

I assume you only work(ed) a five day week and are/were allowed to go home at 5pm.

As a child of the 50s and 60s when my parents worked hard in their shops I think I can speak knowledgeably in support of "small" shop-keepers. Half day (and even all-day closing) on Wednesday or any other day isn't just an excuse for lolling in the garden or watching Jeremy Kyle. Most shop-keepers use it for business purposes - stock replenishment, visiting the suppliers, doing the books, cleaning the premises, etc. And even (now this is really unreasonable) some of them actually spend a little time with their children and attend to their needs on their day "off".

The Working Time Directive is a pipe dream to the average one-man retail business.




Well i lived through the 50s as well and lets not pretend it was some golden age. It was a miserable dire period better forgotten. Times have changed if local traders want my cash they have to compete with Sainsburys etc. End of stoory if they cant they go.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 24, 2012, 11:04:53 AM
I don't remember the 50's. Apparently it was a grim time; ration books, smog, no proper heating, pubs shut more than they were open, drab clothes, damp houses with musty wallpaper, capital punishment, outside toilets, Winston Churchill long past his best and rubbish music. A time when you considered yourself fortunate to even have a dad as there was a good chance that he'd been killed in the war. Shop-keepers on every corner charging high prices and opening and closing when they wanted to. That was a major reason for the advent of the supermarket, poor levels of local service in the 50's and 60's. 

I don't know what Henrietta is buying from the co-op to see her bill go down. Every time I go in it which is not often, I'm actually shocked at the sky -high prices. I vow not to go again but of course I always do.

If local businesses (which I try to use ) can't cater for local customers then local customers will go elsewhere. It doesn't matter what the shop-keepers are doing on Wednesday afternoon, that's none of my business. if they want to watch Jeremy Kyle or play with their kids, then that's entirely up to them. What is my business is that they're not open when I want to buy something that they sell - so I'll get it somewhere else.

A supermarket, the right one in the right location, not a great big, clinking, clanking Asda on Hibbert Lane would bring competition for the co-op and the local buys and there is no doubt whatsoever that one will be coming to Marple in the near future. So just accept it.

In my view this will not be the death knell for local businesses in fact it could even bring additional foot-fall into the town and extra revenues for local business...but if you close on a Wednesday afternoon.... then perhaps you should relocate... back to the 50's.     
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 24, 2012, 12:43:48 PM
All very well put Simon. :)
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 24, 2012, 03:46:31 PM
As I said - Be careful what you wish for
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: amazon on June 24, 2012, 04:02:48 PM
As I said - Be careful what you wish for
.

Please tell us what is cheaper at the coop than say Morrisons       Today

morrisons Kellogg corn flakes 759g £1.34 coop £2.70 toilet rolls from tomorow on offer at morrisons .walkers crisps also from tomorow .
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 24, 2012, 05:19:17 PM
Actually, Wheels and Simon, the 1950s were far from grim. Rationing had ended by the very early '50s (the last product came off "the ration" in 1954), there was more, and more interesting, food available - it was the beginning of a general interest in Italian, Chinese and Indian food and I tasted my first kiwi fruit (called Chinese gooseberries back then) and my first avocado in the late 1950s, courtesy of Peter Mason, the very forward thinking greengrocer on Hollins lane. Colourful and fashionable clothing was available for women and children and men could afford a decent suit from the "multiple" tailors. The general standard of housing all over the country was greatly improved over that of the pre-war period (largely due to the activities of Mr Hitler) and council housing was available for those who needed it.

The NHS was up and running and there was no need for a "post code lottery" when it came to medical treatment. Free glasses and dentistry were available. Antibiotics meant women no longer died in childbirth except on rare occasions and pneumonia, scarlet fever, diphtheria and similar ilnesses were no longer the scourge they had been pre-war due to improved treatments, drugs and vaccination. Operations were safer and techniques had improved, partly thanks to advances made made in treating wounds during the war. And no-one died because they couldn't afford the Doctor or hospital treatment.

Primary and secondary education was free to all according to his or her abilities and even university education was a posibility for "the masses" (assuming they were bright enough) with grants available for the less well off, thanks to the 1944 Education Act. Free school milk with free school dinners for those who needed them also contributed to better health in poorer children.

People were being moved out of big city slums into bright new houses in bright new towns and on out of town estates. Most houses had electricity by the 1950s. It only came to Marple in about 1936 and the war had stopped it's spread but it had become the norm by the '50s although there were still a few older cottages still lit by gas. HP was more widely available and consumer items - 'fridges, washing machines and even motor cars - were becoming reasonable expectations for most people.  Vacuum cleaners, modern detergents, the availability of cheap hot water, all lead to cleaner, healthier homes and people. These domestic improvements made it possible for more women to go out to work thus improving family incomes and because girls were getting a better education they weren't limited to jobs in the two mills in Marple or in shops or service and they could aspire to a better life than their mothers and grandmothers had had. The 50s were also the beginning of the teenager culture and a whole new music, radio, television, fashion, etc., "life style" was growing up round them.
 
In the 1950s Marple reflected these general improvements and was a bright prosperous little town. There was a thriving commercial life and residents could buy anything from a pair of shoes and a pound of butter to a car and a television set without setting foot out of what was still called "the village". There was a cinema, a theatre (The Carver), a library, a labour exchange, the council offices where you could actually speak to the official you needed, the park, the recreation ground, 5 ladies hairdressers and two barbers, two ladies dress shops, a gentlemen's outfitters and a tailor, 3 children's wear shops, shops selling household linens, wool, dress and furnishing fabrics, 4 butchers, a cafe and a "posh" restaurant, 3 radio and television shops, several grocers and greengrocers, two shoe shops and a cobblers in case you needed your shoes repaired (yes, we did that in those days, we were odd like that), a hardware/ironmongers shop, a dry cleaners, 2 banks, a building society  and a post office, several packs of Brownies and Cubs, and companies of Guides and Scouts, the Lads and Girls Brigades, Church youth clubs and Sunday Schools, a well-respected (then) secondary modern school and at the end of the 1950s the planning and building of a grammar school and a clinic catering to the health of babies, children and expectant mothers. Not bad going for the "grim Fifties"

Television may have been black and white with shades of grey but life certainly wasn't.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 24, 2012, 05:42:32 PM
As I said - Be careful what you wish for
.

Please tell us what is cheaper at the coop than say Morrisons       Today

morrisons Kellogg corn flakes 759g £1.34 coop £2.70 toilet rolls from tomorow on offer at morrisons .walkers crisps also from tomorow .
I didn't say that individual items were cheaper in the Co-op. What I actually said - if you had bothered to read it properly - was that I was tempted to buy less in the Co-op than on visits to other supermarkets - largely due to the absence of "special offers" (which aren't really special at all) in the Co-op. I go to the Co-op with a list and stick to it rather than wandering round thinking "Ooh, look at that - I might need that if I have visitors/at Christmas/if I do a cake stall at the charity show". "It" being something which emerges from the back of the cupboard years later when the use-by date is lost in the mists of time.

Anyway, The Co-op has a better ethical footprint than (particularly) Tesco which is important to me. Each to his or her own.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 24, 2012, 06:18:38 PM
You do indeed make the 50s sound dreadful.

I remember it as a time when people called their neighbours who they might have known for years Mr and Mrs. No one had first names in the 50s it was a time when you were expected to give automatic respect just because someone was old or because you were young.

Old in those days was 50/60 as we all died so young due to working conditions and poor housing.

There was a dead hand across society a do as your told attitude"they" know best.

Free thinking and individuality was stifled. No one challenged anything until the 60 when at last we began to sweep away these attitudes.Women started to take their rightful place in the workforce become economically productive. Indeed the idea of a woman having a pension in the 50s was unheard of.

People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.

No cars had radios, TV closed down at 10pm and we were all told to go to bed. The incident of smoking was massive and people smokedeverywhere.

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were.

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better.

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 25, 2012, 07:55:59 AM
 Jeez Henrietta,


You make the 50'S sound even worse than Wheels and I did !  Whatever you do, don't go into advertising or practice being a defence barrister. They will almost certainly re-introduce hanging for your client. Come to think of it they had that in the 50's. Oh well that's another "good thing" to remind everybody of in that golden age.

 Chinese gooseberries...free glasses, scarlet fever,diptheria, oh and safe operations - tremendous, council estates - fantastic, electricity, jobs in't Mill and you could even buy a pound of butter. Eutopian age.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 25, 2012, 08:17:28 AM
Oh and Simon don't be gay in the 50s driven in to the closet. No civil partnerships then never mind marriage. Oh the 50 were so good for so many people.

My personal favourite was the child abuse that went on sending boy to school in short during the winter, oh I loved those chapped legs. But it was all worthwhile for the wonderful 50s
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 25, 2012, 10:19:18 AM
The Co-op does have it's advantages. Since coming back to live in Marple I've been using the Co-op and my weekly bills have dropped considerably. There is far less temptation to buy things I might need at some time in the future

I didn't say that individual items were cheaper in the Co-op. What I actually said - if you had bothered to read it properly - was that I was tempted to buy less in the Co-op than on visits to other supermarkets - largely due to the absence of "special offers"

You have to admire this ingenious effort to make our under-stocked and over-priced supermarket seem like a good thing!  It's like saying 'I'm pleased that the bus service is getting worse and the fares are going up, because now I'll save money because I won't be tempted to go anywhere'.   ;D
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: amazon on June 25, 2012, 12:50:25 PM
We do need another supermarket in Marple. The co-op has a monopoly and their prices are very high, their variety has none, and their sell by dates are narrow.

In my view a medium sized to small supermarket on Chadwick street would benefit the community of Marple it might bring some extra vehicular traffic but perhaps that would be the price to pay.

As well as this some of our local traders need to up their game. Some of their service is poor and some of their opening times are restrictive. Closing half-day on Wednesday is outdated practice and only drives their customers into the arms of Sainsbury's and Morrisons.
The Co-op does have it's advantages. Since coming back to live in Marple I've been using the Co-op and my weekly bills have dropped considerably. There is far less temptation to buy things I might need at some time in the future and I don't waste the petrol that I did when I used to make detours to Ad-tes-bury's supermarkets.

Where I used to live there were no longer any independent bakers, delis, flower shop, cafes, sweet shops, newsagents, or greengrocers because they'd been driven out by the "big boys". Even the hairdressers, dress shops, hardware shops and jewellers were disappearing and the historical market was on its last legs because hardly anyone came into the town centre to shop anymore.

Be careful what you wish for.

Still want to know what you can find cheaper in the coop .
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 25, 2012, 11:55:58 PM
Amazon, I will try to keep this simple. I-DID-NOT-SAY-THAT-INDIVIDUAL-ITEMS-WERE-CHEAPER-I-SAID-THAT-I-SPEND-LESS-MONEY.

What don't you understand about that?
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 26, 2012, 12:02:50 AM
I don't know where Henrietta used to live, but many years ago I lived in Cheadle Hulme.  Since then, Waitrose has arrived in Cheadle Hulme, and this seems to have done no harm at all to the local shops.  On the contrary, many are thriving, and the excellent local butchers Pimlotts report that 'The coming of Waitrose to the centre of the village has helped keep us busy, because local people tend to shop locally.’  See http://cheshire.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/a-choice-location--we-visit-cheadle-and-cheadle-hulme-39666/

Hyde, actually. Morrisons and Asda have killed small shops and even the food market there
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 26, 2012, 12:07:57 AM
I don't remember the 50's.    
If you don't remember the '50s what makes you think you can pontificate on them? If you speak to people who remember the poverty and deprivation of the 1930s in the industrial areas of Britain and the privations of the war years you will find people who will support my view of the '50s. Things have moved on but the '50s were as good as it got back then.

(And as for shops opening and closing when they felt like it - there were by-laws which legislated for closing times, for example hairdressers and barbers were not permitted to open on Mondays, a "tradition" which still continues long after the by-laws were forgotten.)
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 26, 2012, 01:20:53 AM
You do indeed make the 50s sound dreadful.

I remember it as a time when people called their neighbours who they might have known for years Mr and Mrs.  And you have a problem with this?

Old in those days was 50/60 as we all died so young due to working conditions and poor housing. Haven't you looked at the gravestones in local cemetaries and church yards.? Life expectance for men in the 1950s was 65 as compared with 60 in the early 1930s (you can't count the 1940s as statistics were skewed by the war) but you can't assume that all men suddenly dropped dead on their 65th birthday! Infant mortality was reduced (check the official statistics) and TB, one of the great killers of the pre-war years and earlier was at last curable, thanks to penicillin.

Free thinking and individuality was stifled. Oh? What about John Anderson, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, The Free Thought Society, The Libertarian Society, CND and the Aldermaston marches in the late '50s and dozens of other examples

Indeed the idea of a woman having a pension in the 50s was unheard of. Oh really? Women had been eligible for an old age pension at the age of 70 since 1909 as were men, albeit a means tested pension. The Beveridge report of 1942 resulted in the founding of a "cradle to the grave" welfare state in the 1940s which gave women family allowances, maternity and widows' benefits which they benefitted from the late 1940s onward.

People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.Well poor deprived souls - before the war many people had only had days out - if they were lucky

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were. We had fires which heated the house and the hot water. There were council grants widely available for the installation of bathrooms in houses without one. We had one such in the mid fifties. Prior to that as a toddler in the very early '50s, I was bathed nightly in the kitchen sink and then, when I grew out of that, in the "tin" bath in front of the fire. People were only as dirty as they chose to be - no-one in my family smelled even without a bathroom and neither did most of the people I knew

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.Obviously you have fallen prey to the idea that the youth of the sixties invented sex - don't you believe it!

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better. Well, yes, things move on and advances are made

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish.So people didn't read, listen to the radio and watch the television?
 


Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: My login is Henrietta on June 26, 2012, 01:59:34 AM
Sorry, the last bit didn't make sense because it wouldn't let me edit properly

...................................
People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.Well poor deprived souls - before the war many people had only had days out - if they were lucky

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were. We had fires which heated the house and the hot water. There were council grants widely available for the installation of bathrooms in houses without one. We had one such in the mid fifties. Prior to that as a toddler in the very early '50s, I was bathed nightly in the kitchen sink and then, when I grew out of that, in the "tin" bath in front of the fire. People were only as dirty as they chose to be - no-one in my family smelled even without a bathroom and neither did most of the people I knew

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.Obviously you have fallen prey to the idea that the youth of the sixties invented sex - don't you believe it!

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better. Well, yes, things move on but one can't judge the past by the standards of the present

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish.So people didn't read or listen to the radio or watch television?
 
    Don't cross swords with an historian unless you're sure of the facts :P
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 26, 2012, 08:06:09 AM
You do indeed make the 50s sound dreadful.

I remember it as a time when people called their neighbours who they might have known for years Mr and Mrs.  And you have a problem with this?

Yes I do unthinking respect is unhealthy in a society. Its like calling oyur GP Dr instead of Mike or whatever.

Old in those days was 50/60 as we all died so young due to working conditions and poor housing. Haven't you looked at the gravestones in local cemetaries and church yards.? Life expectance for men in the 1950s was 65 as compared with 60 in the early 1930s (you can't count the 1940s as statistics were skewed by the war) but you can't assume that all men suddenly dropped dead on their 65th birthday! Infant mortality was reduced (check the official statistics) and TB, one of the great killers of the pre-war years and earlier was at last curable, thanks to penicillin.

Free thinking and individuality was stifled. Oh? What about John Anderson, Bertrand Russell, Ayn Rand, The Free Thought Society, The Libertarian Society, CND and the Aldermaston marches in the late '50s and dozens of other examples

Indeed the idea of a woman having a pension in the 50s was unheard of. Oh really? Women had been eligible for an old age pension at the age of 70 since 1909 as were men, albeit a means tested pension. The Beveridge report of 1942 resulted in the founding of a "cradle to the grave" welfare state in the 1940s which gave women family allowances, maternity and widows' benefits which they benefitted from the late 1940s onward.

People had annual holidays by the seaside no one traveled the world as we do now.Well poor deprived souls - before the war many people had only had days out - if they were lucky

And as for creature conforts no central heating, I recall in winter the ice would be as think on the inside of a bedroom window as outside. No showers, people had weekly baths what a dirty lot we were. We had fires which heated the house and the hot water. There were council grants widely available for the installation of bathrooms in houses without one. We had one such in the mid fifties. Prior to that as a toddler in the very early '50s, I was bathed nightly in the kitchen sink and then, when I grew out of that, in the "tin" bath in front of the fire. People were only as dirty as they chose to be - no-one in my family smelled even without a bathroom and neither did most of the people I knew

Thank goodness the 60s and I was please to be part of it began to sweep all that away this unquestioning respect. People started to freely have sex without being made to feel guilty.Obviously you have fallen prey to the idea that the youth of the sixties invented sex - don't you believe it!

Role on 2020 I say tomorrow is always better. Well, yes, things move on and advances are made

Oh and there was no internet for us to know what was going on and for people to peddle this nostalgic rubbish.So people didn't read, listen to the radio and watch the television?
 



Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 26, 2012, 08:40:14 AM
I don't know where Henrietta used to live, but many years ago I lived in Cheadle Hulme.  Since then, Waitrose has arrived in Cheadle Hulme, and this seems to have done no harm at all to the local shops.  On the contrary, many are thriving, and the excellent local butchers Pimlotts report that 'The coming of Waitrose to the centre of the village has helped keep us busy, because local people tend to shop locally.’  See http://cheshire.greatbritishlife.co.uk/article/a-choice-location--we-visit-cheadle-and-cheadle-hulme-39666/

Hyde, actually. Morrisons and Asda have killed small shops and even the food market there

....which unavoidably highlights the huge social and demographic gulf between the population of Cheadle Hulme and the good folk of Hyde.  Maybe the arrival of a supermarket in a relatively affluent commuter suburb can benefit the local independent shops (as seems to have occurred in Cheadle Hulme), whilst in a place like Hyde, devastated by the collapse of manufacturing over the past three decades and the resulting unemployment, everyone has to count every penny so carefully that local traders are wiped out by Asda and Morrisons.

If that theory holds, what are the implications for Marple?
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 26, 2012, 09:12:54 AM
I don't remember the 50's.   
If you don't remember the '50s what makes you think you can pontificate on them? If you speak to people who remember the poverty and deprivation of the 1930s in the industrial areas of Britain and the privations of the war years you will find people who will support my view of the '50s. Things have moved on but the '50s were as good as it got back then.

(And as for shops opening and closing when they felt like it - there were by-laws which legislated for closing times, for example hairdressers and barbers were not permitted to open on Mondays, a "tradition" which still continues long after the by-laws were forgotten.)

Henrietta,

You're putting up a good fight here but the battle is really nostalgia versus history in fact that's why we can "pontificate" even though we weren't there - it's known as history.

I guess most people when they were young and if they were happy (and if you weren't happy when you were young then when were you?) see that period as a golden time. So I will concede to your memories, enjoy them.

By the way, my name is Simone not Simon.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: amazon on June 26, 2012, 01:31:23 PM
Amazon, I will try to keep this simple. I-DID-NOT-SAY-THAT-INDIVIDUAL-ITEMS-WERE-CHEAPER-I-SAID-THAT-I-SPEND-LESS-MONEY.

What don't you understand about that?

It is rude to shout ,
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: rsh on June 26, 2012, 02:00:59 PM

....which unavoidably highlights the huge social and demographic gulf between the population of Cheadle Hulme and the good folk of Hyde.  Maybe the arrival of a supermarket in a relatively affluent commuter suburb can benefit the local independent shops (as seems to have occurred in Cheadle Hulme), whilst in a place like Hyde, devastated by the collapse of manufacturing over the past three decades and the resulting unemployment, everyone has to count every penny so carefully that local traders are wiped out by Asda and Morrisons.

If that theory holds, what are the implications for Marple?

In my view, people do seem to forget that the Co-op is already quite a large supermarket competing with the local shops. As "expensive" as it can be compared to other supermarkets, it must surely still already undercut most of its local competitors in Marple - butchers, grocers, bakers, etc. I fail to see that anyone who already goes out of their way to shop in those locally-owned shops, avoiding the Co-op, will suddenly be wooed by an Asda of all things. A Waitrose, well perhaps... The gamble there would be that Waitrose could give Marple more the perception of a "quality" shopping precinct, somewhere that more people might travel to visit, and allow the local traders access to more affluent shoppers in general.

Both could actually benefit the town. Asda by keeping more residents locally for their big shop who currently drive elsewhere, Waitrose by drawing more people in from outside Marple.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 26, 2012, 02:29:46 PM
I think rsh makes a lot of good points there.  As I have been arguing for a long time now, the potential impact of a new supermarket on Marple is not at all easy to predict, and the experience elsewhere has been very variable, as we have seen.

In my view, people do seem to forget that the Co-op is already quite a large supermarket competing with the local shops. As "expensive" as it can be compared to other supermarkets, it must surely still already undercut most of its local competitors in Marple - butchers, grocers, bakers, etc.

Well, yes and no!

Butchers - yes, the co-op is generally cheaper (but you get what you pay for!)
Grocers - what grocers?!
Bakers - yes, and Co-op bread is now much better than it used to be a few years ago.
Greengrocers - no contest!  Neal's and Wilson's are generally both cheaper and better.   :)
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 26, 2012, 04:00:14 PM
If my understanding of the "Marple Supermarket" issue is correct then it is highly unlikely we will get two, one on Hibbert Lane and one on Chadwick street, but we are definitely going to get one. The Council seems to be against Hibbert Lane and will be using Chadwick street  against  Asda's case. Conversely, Asda will be determined, they are not fools and have been in this position many times before and won at the end. They will be aware of the Council's stance and they will have a plan and they also have loadsamoney which the Council does not.

 Forget the pressure groups, they'll just huff and puff and scream and shout and march and hand out leaflets that people will throw in the bin and gather petitions that will be accepted graciously but ignored.The real battle will be between the Council and Asda and Asda and whosoever on Chadwick St, unless of course Asda buy Chadwick St. Then the game is up before it has started.

We know that the Hibbert lane supermarket is an Asda, probably a large one.

We don't know who is interested in Chadwick Street but the site is much smaller so the  supermarket probably will be much smaller.

One is smack in the middle of town and one is just outside it - but not by much.
 
So which one do we actually want and why?

We can't say that we don't want any, that is not really the choice that we are being given. The lid is off the box.

The final point is - if Asda do scarper defeated, then what happens to the College whom will be10/12 million  ££.'s down ?

If the unthinkable happens and the college closes the students take all spending money with them and again what happens to the Hibbert Lane site....Vandals, Travellers, Car park ?

   
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 26, 2012, 04:31:21 PM
I go along with much of what Simone writes, but I'm not sure about this bit:
If my understanding of the "Marple Supermarket" issue is correct then it is highly unlikely we will get two, one on Hibbert Lane and one on Chadwick street,

Why is it highly unlikely?   As you say, Simone, the two sites are very different, and the two supermarkets would also be very different - e.g. Asda at Hibbert lane, Sainsbury's Local at Chadwick Street.  Marple certainly has a big enough population to support both - about 23,000, which is more than Buxton, with a Morrison's, a Waitrose, a  Co-op and an Aldi.

The final point is - if Asda do scarper defeated, then what happens to the College whom will be10/12 million  ££.'s down ?

As discussed at length on other threads over the past year, the likelihood is that the college would just abandon its development plans for the time being and soldier on in the present buildings, which are not efficient and will become increasingly expensive to maintain as they get older.   
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 26, 2012, 04:57:08 PM
The population of Marple could support three supermarkets I agree Dave, but the Council's accepted plan does not allow for this and also it has specified different usage for each site. There are also other consequential effects, vehicular traffic perhaps. There is no doubt each supermarkets' case would be greatly weakened by the advent of the other and in the end it may come down to Council preference.  In addition the advent of one would make the market more restricted for the other - however I do concede that it is not impossible. 

If the college lost the money from the Asda deal then of course it would have to carry on but for how long could it do this?       
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 26, 2012, 07:19:33 PM
If the college lost the money from the Asda deal then of course it would have to carry on but for how long could it do this? 

It's an interesting question.  A few years, certainly.  The danger after that is that if they still can't raise the money for modernisation through land disposal, and there is still no government capital for sixth form colleges, they could get caught in a kind of 'pincer action': high and ever increasing running costs as a result of operating in a poor-quality and outdated converted secondary modern school, while income drops as student numbers fall because students prefer to go elsewhere where the facilities are better.   

The only way I can see camsfc actually closing its Marple sites would be if Marple Hall managed to get capital funding for a new sixth form centre - which could happen if it ever becomes an academy.   
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 26, 2012, 11:30:30 PM
I go along with much of what Simone writes, but I'm not sure about this bit:
If my understanding of the "Marple Supermarket" issue is correct then it is highly unlikely we will get two, one on Hibbert Lane and one on Chadwick street,

Why is it highly unlikely?   As you say, Simone, the two sites are very different, and the two supermarkets would also be very different - e.g. Asda at Hibbert lane, Sainsbury's Local at Chadwick Street.  Marple certainly has a big enough population to support both - about 23,000, which is more than Buxton, with a Morrison's, a Waitrose, a  Co-op and an Aldi.

The final point is - if Asda do scarper defeated, then what happens to the College whom will be10/12 million  ££.'s down ?

As discussed at length on other threads over the past year, the likelihood is that the college would just abandon its development plans for the time being and soldier on in the present buildings, which are not efficient and will become increasingly expensive to maintain as they get older.   

Correct Dave the population of Buxton is about 3000 less than Marple perhaps that will help knock on the head the idea that some people have that they live in a village rather than a suburb of Stockport.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Lily on June 26, 2012, 11:40:16 PM
I like to think that I live in a small, friendly, town rather than a suburb of Stockport.



Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 27, 2012, 07:28:40 AM
Wherever you think that you live - then you do.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Dave on June 27, 2012, 09:44:00 AM
Mmmm - that's very profound! 
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: wheels on June 27, 2012, 12:06:45 PM
Indeed. I have always thought marple was a coastal town
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: simonesaffron on June 27, 2012, 03:55:26 PM
Indeed. I have always thought marple was a coastal town

Then for you it is.
Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Lily on June 27, 2012, 04:43:20 PM
Stockport is the 'coastal town'. I was once asked where the beach is - by the driver of a passing car!!!

Mmmmmm. Stockport, Southport - easily mixed up.

Title: Re: What will happen to the Postmen/Postwomen?
Post by: Barbara on June 27, 2012, 05:26:06 PM
Sounds like the young lady who got off the train at Marple and asked me how to get to the George at Crumpsall!  :D