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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: jimblob on June 01, 2012, 02:29:04 PM

Title: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on June 01, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
What's happening on Railway Road, Rose hill? The scheme, a week in has already seen every single piece of greenery removed from the upper section of the strip. The completed scheme promises to be a compromised scheme that will actually introduce increased dangers where cyclists and pedestrians are sharing two widened sections of pavement but then have to both use a narrowed section….. a bottleneck is actually being constructed that will either force pedestrians or cyclists onto the road or cause them to collide.

Interestingly, the report submitted to the Marple Area Committee by NPS implied the entire length of the pavement would be widened and didn't show the buildings that are are near the boundaries of the plots of land that have been "acquired"... is this another Seventeen Windows? Do the buildings need planning permission? should they even be there?
The submitted plan to the Area Committee is inaccurate and yet it is upon this that the committee made its decision. Why doesn’t the NPS plan show the building? The erection of the buildings pre-date the submission date of the plan by NPS to the Area Committee on 25th May 2011. Something doesn't seem to add up.


If the land acquired isn’t reflective of the NPS drawing and presumed basis for the Committee decision and is therefore only two disjointed sections of the strip of land, why did the land acquisition and scheme still go ahead? Presumably someone saw the discrepancy, if so, who, and what was then done about it? Who took it upon themselves to accept a compromised scheme and still spend the money?

Anyone have any clues?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: sooty2 on June 01, 2012, 05:44:27 PM
Remember your quote?Having followed the Seventeen Windows blog with much interest I have just received my reply to the complaint I raised with Stockport MBC. Needless to say, my complaint is not upheld as committee decisions are final! Who's gonna stop out illustrious local authority wasting our money on unneccessary schemes to keep themselves in jobs.Well off they go again.The mad axemen followed by more money wasting destructive schemes.All the new road markings in the area, in my opinion are an eyesore  >:( (Lets hope lots of people attend the meeting about the redevelopment of Chadwick Street car park next Wednesday.God only knows how much money was spent on that when it was recently altered and the traffic direction on Trinity Street changed?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on June 02, 2012, 04:29:52 AM
You could have said all that by saying "Road and Traffic safety is not inportant to me."
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: marplerambler on June 02, 2012, 02:27:24 PM
While you are on the subject of axemen on Railway Road, have you noticed that the super horse chestnut tree facing the entrance to the pub car park has been chopped down. This was a truly splendid old tree which, each autumn, provided me with the conkers to keep the spiders away from my house. Another part of Marple's green and pleasant land has been massacred. Does anyone know if there was a tree preservation order on this tree?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on June 08, 2012, 08:41:23 AM
You could have said all that by saying "Road and Traffic safety is not inportant to me."

It isn't iNportant... it's iMportant though.
Creating a shared pavement and cycleway requires some thought and lots of space, so to create one that squeezes both parties together in the middle is plain stupid. I run and cycle regularly down Middlewood Way so safety for all forms of self-propulsion is top of my list.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on June 08, 2012, 02:03:10 PM
While you are on the subject of axemen on Railway Road, have you noticed that the super horse chestnut tree facing the entrance to the pub car park has been chopped down. This was a truly splendid old tree which, each autumn, provided me with the conkers to keep the spiders away from my house. Another part of Marple's green and pleasant land has been massacred. Does anyone know if there was a tree preservation order on this tree?

This sounds a little bit like the whining we had when the work on Dan Ban was being done snf trees ewere being taken out, even though over 60% of them were dead and who today drving along Dan Bank can tell the difference in fact it looks greener to me than it did 2 yrs ago. SO I think the lossof one tree for an enhanced facility is perfectly acceptable.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: Duke Fame on June 08, 2012, 02:09:56 PM
While you are on the subject of axemen on Railway Road, have you noticed that the super horse chestnut tree facing the entrance to the pub car park has been chopped down. This was a truly splendid old tree which, each autumn, provided me with the conkers to keep the spiders away from my house. Another part of Marple's green and pleasant land has been massacred. Does anyone know if there was a tree preservation order on this tree?

This sounds a little bit like the whining we had when the work on Dan Ban was being done snf trees ewere being taken out, even though over 60% of them were dead and who today drving along Dan Bank can tell the difference in fact it looks greener to me than it did 2 yrs ago. SO I think the lossof one tree for an enhanced facility is perfectly acceptable.

Well said Mr Wheels, I agree with you on this one.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on June 08, 2012, 02:24:39 PM
I also agree re Dan Bank.... it looks great now and has a consistentlyl wide pavement for pedestrians and cyclist to share too!

The large Horse Chestnut was indeed not at its best I understand as well as being VERY large. Whilst its departure might be seen as unnecessary, other trees I'm sure will take it's place, although sadly not the ones Solutions SK have just chopped down along the soon to be, partially widened section of the Railway Road pavement.

At least with fewer trees there, when cyclist and pedestrians confront each other head on as the midsection narrows to a regular pavement's width, there'll be more light for them to see each other and avoid collision... Or, perhaps not, there's a mystery green building in the way blocking the light that wasn't on the plan presented to the Marple Area Committee!
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on June 08, 2012, 02:31:57 PM
I cycle up Dan Bank every day on the way home from work and not only is there now a consistently wide off road lane for cyclists the ascent is less steep now I am off the road. Or at least thats how it feels  ;D
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: Stockport Classic Bus on June 08, 2012, 03:17:44 PM
Sorry folks but despite the widened road, my old bus [1958!!] still tops out at 10mph on the drag up from Otterspool lights to Marple Hall....it'll be out and about through the summer so if you get stuck behind it, please be patient and remember how life was in the days when there was no traffic to toot behind the bus!!  ;D
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on June 08, 2012, 03:19:10 PM
get yourself a bike.... it'd be quicker and also get you fitter  ;)
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: Stockport Classic Bus on June 08, 2012, 06:11:01 PM
Just struggle to get all 40 passengers on my bike....it's okay going downhill though!!
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: marplerambler on June 09, 2012, 11:49:43 AM
The Stockport Classic bus will still be going faster than the Speedwells on the 394 earlier this year (insert plug at this point - get yourself a ride on the old Stockport Corporation single decker in the Marple Carnival parade next week). On the subject of the pavement at Railway Road, the tree I referred to was not on the proposed new cycle way: it was in the garden adjacent to the pavement on the opposite side of the road. Get it straight: I am not a Luddite and I do ride a bike regularly up Dan Bank but the widening of the pavement and the removal of the trees was totally unnecessary for the cyclists. I cycled up the hill away from the traffic on the much narrower old pavement at walking pace (you have to be extremely fit to go any faster than 5mph anyway) and always moved onto the road if there was a pedestrian which was very rare anyway.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on June 18, 2012, 04:11:17 PM
£30,800 (inclusive of vat!) to acquire the two seperate strips of land on Railway Road, (all 1.5 metres wide of it) but as two seperate pieces of land of course, so no real use to anyone. A bargain I'm sure....  maybe they couldn't afford the bit in the middle!
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: chicken lady on June 18, 2012, 05:17:11 PM
I can't really see what difference it will make. I dog-walk almost daily down the middlewood way from stockport Road, have nearly been run over several times when crossing the road by the entrance to the station car park, as car drivers cannot see round the corner at Josh Robinsons yard - and are driving too fast! I have  seen kids going to and from school nearly hit as well, it's an accident waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 05, 2012, 03:03:41 PM
This will be a great improvement for cyclists and as stated above at a very reasonable cost, but my goodness its taking a long time.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 26, 2012, 03:37:55 PM
reasonable cost!

£30,000 just to acquire the land,
9 weeks of work for a team of Solutions SK workmen, equipment, materials etc....
I'm sure the cost runs well into 6 figures, but the mid-section is unchanged and remains the same width as before......

Pointless!
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 26, 2012, 03:41:15 PM
Not pointless essential.

Now its no good saying I am sure it runs into £x.

Lets have some fact.

Lets have the evidence first for the £30000 you state rather than just re-stating rumour.

I await the fact and even if it were as you suggest £100k I repeat as a CT payer. Good value. I am well pleased with it.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 26, 2012, 04:14:29 PM
well to be precise, £30,800, comprising: -

£12,000 to the freeholder for both pieces of land (the same owner), consider how much the entire Railway Pub car park is worth based on those prices!
£  2,100 to the Railway Hotel for "other costs"
£16,700 (other costs!) made to Josh Robinson excavations, still waiting to see what those are for

the fact that the mid-section remains unchanged is due to the building on Josh Robinson Excavations land, a building for which planning permission might be questionable and is currently being looked into by Stockport's planning department.

Incidentally, the plans submitted for the scheme to the Marple Area Committee didn't show the building in question and suggest that the widenining of the pavement would be of the entire length, their decision being taken on that basis. it would have made sense to proceed on that basis.

I don't yet have a total cost for the project, but at least two workmen for 9 weeks (18 man weeks) plus equipment, design costs and materials don't come cheap, especially building stone walls.

Given the mid-section is essentially a bottleneck and unchanged, in what way do you feel the cost is justified Wheels and how does this benefit the CT payer?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 26, 2012, 04:21:46 PM
you also state the work is "essential".... why?

moving Josh Robinson's gravel sales pitch from the pavement on the corner is essential in my opinion, but as the scheme stands now, he has an even larger pitch to sell his wares.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 27, 2012, 12:29:59 PM
I am amazed your able to get hold of what is essentially personal information between the Council and the land owner, a transaction that's not even covered by freedom of information requests, I've checked, so its interesting how you got such detailed figures
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 12:32:06 PM
Well the info was supplied under FOI; heh what if Stockport shouldn't have supplied the info to me. Slap their wrists!
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: chicken lady on July 27, 2012, 01:23:02 PM
I am amazed your able to get hold of what is essentially personal information between the Council and the land owner, a transaction that's not even covered by freedom of information requests, I've checked, so its interesting how you got such detailed figures

why is it "personal information between the council and the landowner"? It has been paid for using our council tax by our elected council so therefore should be our information. and still a waste of money!
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 01:24:03 PM
Couldn't agree more chicken lady  :)
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 01:24:57 PM
Wheels, you still haven't explained why the work on Railway Road was "Essential"
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: chicken lady on July 27, 2012, 01:33:03 PM

moving Josh Robinson's gravel sales pitch from the pavement on the corner is essential in my opinion, but as the scheme stands now, he has an even larger pitch to sell his wares.

I commented on this point a few weeks ago, regarding the safety of people crossing the road at the junction of the station car park and Railway Road. Not to worry though, the pedestrians will be on the road (as usual) while the cyclists sail past on their lovely new path.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 01:36:04 PM
But the work was "Essential" I'm told by Wheels, although this sounds very much like a para-phrased version of the response I got from our illustrious councillors who support the scheme, (those of them at least who felt prepared to comment because they hadn't already decelared a conflict of interest with Sustrans!).
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 27, 2012, 02:30:43 PM
But the work was "Essential" I'm told by Wheels, although this sounds very much like a para-phrased version of the response I got from our illustrious councillors who support the scheme, (those of them at least who felt prepared to comment because they hadn't already decelared a conflict of interest with Sustrans!).

So now your suggesting they should not have declared an interested and should of acted in properly?

I repeat this is an essential piece of work and should be welcomed by all road users and CT payers.

Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 02:45:35 PM
Why is it essential?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 02:50:43 PM
And no I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't have declared a conflict of interests. The very fact however that they chose not to comment because of Sustrans raises questions however about the methods of the organisation. (fact btw, not rumour)..... phrases like "I support the building of off road cycleways but not Sustrans methods. They are to cycling what the Taliban is to peace and harmony." do make one wonder what is going on.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 27, 2012, 03:26:47 PM
Why
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 27, 2012, 03:35:23 PM
I assume you mean why are Sustrans like the Taliban....  I was quoting, these aren't my words so I don't know why?
Wheels, you still haven't stated why you consider the work essential? please tell....
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: bluebelly on July 30, 2012, 08:04:52 AM
went to the car boot on sunday,if that path has cost all that money,then it is an absolute disgrace.who hands out theses contracts.....?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 30, 2012, 09:35:25 AM
I assume you mean why are Sustrans like the Taliban....  I was quoting, these aren't my words so I don't know why?
Wheels, you still haven't stated why you consider the work essential? please tell....

Why quote something you don't understand or are able to justify?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 30, 2012, 10:57:12 AM
Why keep side-stepping my question.... why was the work on Railway Road essential?
cummon Wheels.... stand by your statement

As for discussing the statement on Sustrans any further, it would be innapropriate to divulge any further information. Doesn't take a genius to work out the inference though eh?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 31, 2012, 10:36:03 AM
Still waiting wheels....  ???
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: wheels on July 31, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
It is such an obvious benefit in terms of road safety I am amazed you need it explaining or justifying.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: Jo Scarlett on July 31, 2012, 12:22:04 PM
I thought this work was also related to the new Rose Hill primary. SMBC have been advertising the pub carpark as a place to park and stride from on the school run in a bid to ease traffic around adjoining roads for local residents. With this in mind maybe some off the funding came out of a different pot?
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on July 31, 2012, 12:28:14 PM
the funding was half by Stockport MBC (ie us!) and half by Sustrans through a lottery grant through the Cycle Route 55 scheme.
Title: Re: Widening of the pavement on Railway Road - Rose Hill
Post by: jimblob on August 21, 2012, 09:29:42 AM
Well folks.... it appears the building compromising our partially widened pavement on Railway Road was indeed erected without any planning permission.....
Marple Area Commitee and NPS need to come up with some answers me thinks.... or do I mean excuses?

msg for Wheels..... knowing how keen you are on regulations (I think back to your stance on the Norfolk Arms). You have argued that the work was "essential", isn't it now essential that the legalities are correctly sorted?