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Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: marpleleaf on February 12, 2012, 07:49:49 PM
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The local council elections this May have thrown up a few intriguing issues. Marple's two wards have both been relatively safe Liberal Democrat seats, but these are far from normal times.
Yet I get no impression that the Conservatives have a sufficient organisation in Marple. The Conservative Club is a social base, not a political one. They have fielded "paper" candidates in the past, young activists with a willingness to put their names out, but with no hope of winning. Now that they have the opportunity, do they have the means?
Also, should Shan Alexander stay on in public life?
Could this election be time for an independent slate to come forward and stand up for the community?
There's a link to a longer blog on it here, I am genuinely interested to hear what other people think.
http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2012/02/local-politics-too-important-to-be-left.html
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The local council elections this May have thrown up a few intriguing issues. Marple's two wards have both been relatively safe Liberal Democrat seats, but these are far from normal times.
Yet I get no impression that the Conservatives have a sufficient organisation in Marple. The Conservative Club is a social base, not a political one. They have fielded "paper" candidates in the past, young activists with a willingness to put their names out, but with no hope of winning. Now that they have the opportunity, do they have the means?
Also, should Shan Alexander stay on in public life?
Could this election be time for an independent slate to come forward and stand up for the community?
There's a link to a longer blog on it here, I am genuinely interested to hear what other people think.
http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2012/02/local-politics-too-important-to-be-left.html
How longs a piece of string .
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Interesting post, marpleleaf. You rightly point out that our LibDem councillors are, in effect, unopposed by serious candidates from other parties. Where your argument weakens is here:
Could this election be time for an independent slate to come forward and stand up for the community?
Which begs the obvious question - what would 'standing up for the community' look like? I have no doubt that all candidates at local elections proclaim that they are 'standing up for the community'. So what would an independent candidate offer that was any different from the others?
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A party candidate *also* has to serve their group. An independent is only judged on their record and how effectively they "stand up for the community" interests.
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Agreed. But of course, a brand new candidate putting him/herself forward as an independent has no record to be judged on (yet). So what policies would such a new candidate offer the electorate to distinguish themselves from the usual lot (other than the hopelessly vague 'if elected I will stand up for you' ::))
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You rarely get an independent that isn't known in the community they want to serve and already have a community reputation. Its concern for their own community that convinces them to stand and I think makes them perfect for the job.
However, I'm also aware regular party candidates come in through that route as well and I know of a number that have been "poached" by certain parties to stand for them when they have been involved in a community action.
A few years ago I was asked by the Labour party, The Green party and the Conservative party to stand in the same local council election! I'm sure that if I hadn't been facing off blatantly against the Lib Dems then they'd have asked me too!! :D
In order to make any dent on the bizarre Lib Dem majority ( and something I was advised a few years ago when i was considering standing) someone would have to stand at least 3 times to start denting any big majority and a continual voice between elections. Think ALL candidates fail at this as we rarely hear a peep from any of them in between elections and apart from Maggie of the Green party I don't recognise any other names on the lists to vote for and maybe thats why we vote for the Devil we know ( collective we... def not me!) ?
So if anyone is thinking of going for it it wont happen overnight ... unfortunately.. but could someone do it anyway please because i am really fed up of this lot!
Then theres another thought... how about becoming a parish(if the govt haven't stopped it yet!) ?? Frowned upon by the council but very successful in Offerton, and would give us more power over what happened locally.. might even be able to keep our loos!!
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Have you given any thought to reconsidering and standing, Lisa? Maybe you could create your own party. (And we all like a party ;) Cheers.
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Please someone stand as an Independent- I think they may be surprised at the amount of local support they may gain. It could actually happen overnight as there are many very dissatisfied with the current situation.
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Have you given any thought to reconsidering and standing, Lisa? Maybe you could create your own party. (And we all like a party ;) Cheers.
Would. You be against a supermarket on Hibert lane
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Barbara... I may well not like the politicians that currently hold office.. and I think the financial rewards they get are excessive, however their hours are still long and very unsociable and that in the end was my reason for not standing, and remains so until my children and much older.. but thank you .. I quite fancy my own party too! :D
and chicky I doubt it would happen overnight.. unless that person was VERY VERY well known already, and well thought of I might add!! A political campaign is a costly a time consuming thing, which is why the lib dems, rich in this area, can afford all the nonsense expensive trash they put through my letterbox and the other parties can't! An independent would find it even harder to compete and get their word out to the wider population of Marple, most of whom are still, unfortunately, unaware of this wonderful site
and amazon... yes i would be opposed to a SUPER(sized)market.. but then... I think anyone standing as an Independent right now would have to feel that way wouldnt they? and yes I know Dave and co ... its not totally obvious or proven etc etc etc that everyones against a SUPERmarket :D
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I do think local government should be free of party political dogma. That said, I'd bf horrified if Labour got in and started destroying the place.
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Thanks for your interesting and varied responses. I went to the Local Area Meeting last night and was struck by the sheer volume of work and the utterly banality of a lot of it.
I don't understand what it is that ideologically separates the political parties on the kinds of issues that most councillors have to deal with. Their fitness for office ultimately rests on their competance and capacity for dealing with the work. There was a fairly patronising remark last night from one elected member (LibDem, obviously) about how businesses could advertise without resorting to A boards. I wouldn't expect a Conservative to come out with something as they are instinctively pro-business - and to be fair, Craig Wright countered that with a plea for common sense - but if party differences don't distinguish elected members, why then should they matter.
But now that the Lib Dems are in government and having to respond to unpopular policies they may not have camapigned on, you start to see how irrelevant the party badge is in such a context.
Lisa's point about the local parties all asking her to stand rather backs this up, so does the current spate of floor crossing at the town hall - Lib Dem to Labour, Lib Dem to Tory and Labour to being an indie.
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Mapleleaf,
Not to sure that I agree with your obvious hostility towards the LibDems. I'm no LibDemLuvver, I certainly don't think much of them nationally - but local politics is a different issue.
Political ideology is not up to much locally. Who cares if Councillors have read; JS Mill, Edmund Burke, Thomas Paine? Who cares if you can't put a cigarette paper between them politically? Who cares what political colour they are? What we need are Councillors who are part of the community, who reflect and represent the communities needs and wishes and who are prepared to stand up for them. Councillors who keep the drains running and the park benches in a good state of repair.
That's really the problem isn't it - who is prepared to stand for office? The answer is not many. We all complain and criticise (as we are entitled to do) but we won't stand - we are all; too busy, too old, too young - etc.
I'm all in favour of diversity and maybe the LibDems have had it too easy in Marple when it comes to getting elected. But they are here and they are here every year - who else is?
Last year - pre- local election, everywhere I looked I kept seeing this local LibDem Councillor (I won't mention names it's not fair when they can't fight back and we're using 'nom -de- plumes') any way he/she was everywhere, every time I turned a corner there he/she was; Canvassing, Talking to people, putting up posters. There must have been 80/90 posters in this part of Marple. I saw 2 Labour posters, 2 UKIP and 3 Conservative . Who won the election - I WONDER WHY ?
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As I said in the original post there are only two organised political bodies in Marple - the single issue Marple in Action and the local Liberal Democrats. I totally agree with you that it doesn't matter - in a way the party has become an irrelevance - my concern isn't really about how their interpretation of national policy or ideology plays out locally - because it usually doesn't. It's when a wafer thin majority, or a Labour controlled minority, sees the councillors toe-ing a Borough wide party line, that collides with what is right for the local area.
When I looked at the councillors last night and listened to them speak I thought I trusted and really liked two of them, was ambivalent about one, and felt outright hostility to two.
The conclusion seems to be that it's time to piss, or get off the pot.
Anyway, this anonymous stuff is a but cloak and dagger - Marple Leaf is the name of my webiste - I'm always happy to be known as Michael Taylor.
Cheers,
Michael Taylor
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Hello Michael
Take your points -most of em good ones.
It was Tony Benn who said that ..."as an MP you have three responsibilities in ever changing order; one to your party, one to your constituents and one to your conscience". I expect it is the same for a local Councillor and for them it's sometimes impossible to reconcile all three, all the time. Probably the best we can hope for is that on most issues (or at least the big ones) our Councillors go with the last two.
Your point about political organisation in Marple is well made but there is also the issue of voter apathy if we get a 50% turnout in Marple we're doing well - maybe that could be made to change. Or maybe we should go along to the two Councillors that you trust and try and persuade them to become independent - "The Marple Independents" they'd have some clout in the Council - wouldn't they? The way things are going they could hold the balance of power after the next local elections.
Lisa... "the financial rewards they get are excessive" - if they are I might stand myself. How much actually is it - does anybody really know? I always thought that it was a pittance for local Councillors and that's one reason why nobody will stand. It should be easy enough to find out.
Michael...On the subject of anonymity - I meant mine not yours. You've got the courage to declare - I haven't.
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As I said in the original post there are only two organised political bodies in Marple - the single issue Marple in Action and the local Liberal Democrats. I totally agree with you that it doesn't matter - in a way the party has become an irrelevance - my concern isn't really about how their interpretation of national policy or ideology plays out locally - because it usually doesn't. It's when a wafer thin majority, or a Labour controlled minority, sees the councillors toe-ing a Borough wide party line, that collides with what is right for the local area.
When I looked at the councillors last night and listened to them speak I thought I trusted and really liked two of them, was ambivalent about one, and felt outright hostility to two.
The conclusion seems to be that it's time to piss, or get off the pot.
Anyway, this anonymous stuff is a but cloak and dagger - Marple Leaf is the name of my webiste - I'm always happy to be known as Michael Taylor.
Cheers,
Michael Taylor
Hi Michael,
Intravenous here, I'm not so sure you can claim the Lib Dems are an irrelevance. They tend to be very strong in local government as they don’t have the weight of a national ideology weighing them down in the way Labour and to a smaller extent Conservatives have. Local council’s get allocated their budget and have to work to them; sadly there isn’t much incentive to find better or more efficient ways of working as they don’t have to. In not having the ideology, they tend to be able to take the action that they see as sensible (it may sometimes be wrong) rather than on some dogmatic redistributive ticket.
I’d also be surprised if Lib Dems are done nationally. They may have lost a lot of disenfranchised Labour voters but their core voter should be fairly happy with their performance in government. Vince Cable may be a bit of a liability and I’d not mention to Chris Hulne that I have a clean driving licence but a liberal small ‘L’ can’t be too upset with the coalition.
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I'm not so sure you can claim the Lib Dems are an irrelevance. They tend to be very strong in local government as they don’t have the weight of a national ideology weighing them down in the way Labour and to a smaller extent Conservatives have. Local council’s get allocated their budget and have to work to them; sadly there isn’t much incentive to find better or more efficient ways of working as they don’t have to. In not having the ideology, they tend to be able to take the action that they see as sensible (it may sometimes be wrong) rather than on some dogmatic redistributive ticket.
I’d also be surprised if Lib Dems are done nationally. They may have lost a lot of disenfranchised Labour voters but their core voter should be fairly happy with their performance in government. Vince Cable may be a bit of a liability and I’d not mention to Chris Hulne that I have a clean driving licence but a liberal small ‘L’ can’t be too upset with the coalition.
As Duke says, local councils tend to work on pragmatism. They're allocated funds which they are [supposed] to be able to top up through imposition of the council tax. Most of the way they use funds seems to be dictated to them by central government so it mainly seems to be an administrative exercise. Political dogma doesn't really come into it.
Lisa... "the financial rewards they get are excessive" - if they are I might stand myself. How much actually is it - does anybody really know? I always thought that it was a pittance for local Councillors and that's one reason why nobody will stand. It should be easy enough to find out.
On this point, my mother was a LibDem councillor for two terms during the late 1980s to early 1990s. I know that she worked her backside off, was out virtually every evening at various committee meetings as well as holding down a full time job. She received an absolute pittance - purely remuneration for expenses and a small amount for attending meetings. The myth of councillors receiving huge amounts seems to have come from the City Councils (Manchester and Liverpool being fine examples) where they supposedly worked full time and voted themselves large attendance allowances.
A local councillor's job can be pretty much full time which is why the people doing it are either retired, unemployed or run their own business and can afford to take the time off. The people doing it are clearly not representative of the general populance but unless the allowance is enough for the role to be performed full time then we'll continue to be represented by people from these backgrounds.
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Cheers all - sorry, I didn't mean that the LibDems as a party are an irrelevance, but that for the purposes of local administration it doesn't seem that relevant which party you are a member of. I'm sure Sid Lloyd and Craig Wright don't disagree on very much.
Agree that the amounts earned are a pittance, unless you are an exec member - in which case you can get a decent salary. They can claim expenses for things they go to - I see local councillors sat in all kinds of Greater Manchester meetings as "reps" of the council. No doubt counting it as time served.
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It would be my opinion that the supermarket issue has forced our elected members to be more accountable to the community Many issues prior to June 2011 would have been spoken about behind closed doors with the deals having been done with no public consultation or public impute. But having said all that the community themselves were guilty of not questioning or becoming pro active. So one could say we have the elected members we deserve because we as a community have allowed them and some of their ideas to go unchallenged but I do think things have now changed. :-\
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Hi Marple leaf what is the issue of Shan Alexander staying in Public office ? I fear I may have missed something can you enlighten us ?
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Barbara... I may well not like the politicians that currently hold office.. and I think the financial rewards they get are excessive, however their hours are still long and very unsociable and that in the end was my reason for not standing.
Lisa, the rewards are not that great as a councillor, just ex's. It's those in the employ that get the daft money. It's amazing how town clerks etc who really are just people who can't get a job in the real world manage to land a salary well beyond what is achievable for them in the real world.
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Miss Marple
Re Councillor Alexander.
In 2009 she was the driver of a car that was involved in a traffic accident wherein her passenger subsequently died. As a consequence of this she was charged and convicted of "causing death by"... I THINK IT WAS "DANGEROUS" DRIVING BUT IT MAY HAVE BEEN "CARELESS" - I'm not quite sure. Anyway the point is she has a recent criminal conviction involving a loss of life - so it is serious. Therefore should she be standing for public office?
However and conversely, she wasn't drunk, she wasn't speeding, her car was roadworthy - so you could take the view that she was involved in a tragic accident that could happen to any of us and ..."there but for the grace of god".
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Come on Duke, join the rest of us in the real 'real world': Stockport hasn't had a town clerk for almost forty years!
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Come on Duke, join the rest of us in the real 'real world': Stockport hasn't had a town clerk for almost forty years!
Who's the equivalent of Dickie Leese and Howie Bernstein? So awful at being town clerks in Manchester they need two of them. Luckily for Manks that they only take half a salary each err hang on, they both take a huge salary way beyond their ability to do the job.
The issue for me is that these town clerk jobs are renamed into something fancy and they all get paid too much. The argument being that they have a budget comparable to a large to medium commercial enterprise. The point I make is that they don't have the performance targets of a large / medium enterprise and the penalty for failure is not even comparable to a one man band.
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Michael I have just read via the link Marple Leaf and have to say that I found it most informative and more to the point 'in touch' with what's really happening in and to Marple and the community. I do agree that there is now need for a change in our local representation, having an all Liberal party can not be healthy for Marple.
The recent Supermarket issue highlighted that some councillors must have been aware of the proposals that had been spoken about within the college for years but for whatever reason decided to forget what they had been elected for, which was to represent the community, not turn a blind eye to what was going to have a devastating effect on the people living close to the site and potentially distroy our community with pollution, added Traffic and all the other things a supermarket brings especially one built in the middle of a residential area.
Yes I do think an independent should stand, one hopefully that doesn't forget what and why they were elected. I know this may put you on the spot Michael, but I would like to know if you would consider
standing as an independent and to say if you did you would have my support and many other people who now believe there is a need for change in order to protect the MARPLE that we all love .
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You can count on my vote Michael and that of my family, if you need help canvasing give me a shout more than happy to help ;D
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Michael I have just read via the link Marple Leaf and have to say that I found it most informative and more to the point 'in touch' with what's really happening in and to Marple and the community. I do agree that there is now need for a change in our local representation, having an all Liberal party can not be healthy for Marple.
The recent Supermarket issue highlighted that some councillors must have been aware of the proposals that had been spoken about within the college for years but for whatever reason decided to forget what they had been elected for, which was to represent the community, not turn a blind eye to what was going to have a devastating effect on the people living close to the site and potentially distroy our community with pollution, added Traffic and all the other things a supermarket brings especially one built in the middle of a residential area.
Yes I do think an independent should stand, one hopefully that doesn't forget what and why they were elected. I know this may put you on the spot Michael, but I would like to know if you would consider
standing as an independent and to say if you did you would have my support and many other people who now believe there is a need for change in order to protect the MARPLE that we all love .
Why don't you put up miss Marple you seem very good at thinking you can run Marple
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Michael I have just read via the link Marple Leaf and have to say that I found it most informative and more to the point 'in touch' with what's really happening in and to Marple and the community. I do agree that there is now need for a change in our local representation, having an all Liberal party can not be healthy for Marple.
The recent Supermarket issue highlighted that some councillors must have been aware of the proposals that had been spoken about within the college for years but for whatever reason decided to forget what they had been elected for, which was to represent the community, not turn a blind eye to what was going to have a devastating effect on the people living close to the site and potentially distroy our community with pollution, added Traffic and all the other things a supermarket brings especially one built in the middle of a residential area
Yes I do think an independent should stand, one hopefully that doesn't forget what and why they were elected. I know this may put you on the spot Michael, but I would like to know if you would consider
standing as an independent and to say if you did you would have my support and many other people who
now believe there is a need for change in order to protect the MARPLE that we all love .
Why don't you put up miss Marple you seem very good at thinking you can run Marple
I'm too honest mate ! But hey thanks for your support ! Lol :-*
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Michael, Yes it really is time for some new blood! I lost all faith in the present councillors when at the area committee meeting held in the Memorial Park they denied any knowledge of a proposed supermarket. Some if not all knew and chose not to tell the people of Marple.
Some personal references to local councillors have been removed from this post. Admin.
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Yes Mrs O I have also watched the Area Committee meeting in the park several times on the link on this site. The more I view it the more inconsistencies I notice from what was said by councillors and SMBC officials and what has now come to light via Freedom Of Information requests,it is quite concerning isn't it ?
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Not too sure about Miss M's comments about our current Councillors. Whiffs to me of bald assertion without any evidential component.
I am sure that they are less than perfect but I think that Marple is a pretty good place to live in and some of the credit for that must surely go to the local Councillors. They probably benefit from a swift prod now and again but that applies to all people in public office as complacency so easily becomes the name of the game.
Being all the same party has obvious drawbacks but also some benefits. There are some Area Committees throughout the land that are absolutely paralysed by warring, party - politics, they can't agree on the smallest issues and never get any business done. It takes a year to get planning permission for your house extension. This is because all Committee members have different political colours. This doesn't apply to Marple as they are all of the same party.
If an independent candidate were to present then what would probably happen is that they would take 300/400 of the Lib Dem vote and let the Conservatives in. Have you seen what the all Conservative local Councillors have done to Bramhall? In the last ten years its become like staly- vegas. They've let everybody and everything in. Bars, Restaurants, Pubs, Takeaways, Tesco. Anything as long as it brings in money.
That's not what I want for Marple.
If an independent Candidate stood - the only thing that we could be sure of was that the independent Candidate wouldn't win.
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I beg to differ on an the independent not being elected as I have said before Marple is watching the supermarket situation very closely and the. People will then decide what is in their best interest more of the same or a new broom ?
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Myself and Annette Finnie (Marple North) attended the Marple Area committee meeting on Wednesday. We were shocked that this Lib Dem dominant
council wanted to put extra costs onto businesses at a time when they are already struggling to survive. Although some of the elected Lib Dems did
ask for common sense from the member of the council, it was left to the floor to really get her to understand why charging for a licensing system for
A-Boards mainly, is a bad idea.
I would just like to say a few things on the differences between the parties. If you have ever been to a Stockport Council Meeting you will see that
the three main parties don't agree with each other on alot of things and there are really differences between the three main parities nationally and locally.
Secondly, lets take a look at the political landscape here:
Marple South - 2011 Results (Similar in Marple North)
Liberal Democrat - 1,948
Conservative - 1,493
Labour - 783
UKIP - 380
These figures show that alot of people would love to see the Lib Dem dominance in this area come to an end. Also, If we start electing some younger candidates
(like they have done in Hazel Grove) and to have a mix of parties elected in the area, we will start to see things being challenged alot more and we will also see
the view of the area from the youth in the area, hopefully some of the youth who are involved in crime will be able to relate better to a younger councillor and
hopefully look up to them.
Its time we tried something new in Marple, rather then sticking with the status quo.
Its time we have a more representative board of councillors with new ideas.
In Marple South were just 455 (based on 2011 results) votes away and in Marple North
were just 381 (based on 2011 results) votes away from giving you a new voice.
I believe the Lib Dems are complacent and feel that their six seats are safe, let's prove them wrong in May.
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Myself and Annette Finnie (Marple North) attended the Marple Area committee meeting on Wednesday. We were shocked that this Lib Dem dominant
council wanted to put extra costs onto businesses at a time when they are already struggling to survive. Although some of the elected Lib Dems did
ask for common sense from the member of the council, it was left to the floor to really get her to understand why charging for a licensing system for
A-Boards mainly, is a bad idea.
I hadn't realised this was a Lib dem policy, I was told it was an idea promoted by a Sue Stephenson rather than a Lib Dem initiative. I agree, putting even more cost on business shoulders in order to pay for council's indulgences is incredibly selfish. I'd love to see a council give a little back to businesses and encourage us to expand rather than raping us for as much money as possible.
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Myself and Annette Finnie (Marple North) attended the Marple Area committee meeting on Wednesday. We were shocked that this Lib Dem dominant
council wanted to put extra costs onto businesses at a time when they are already struggling to survive. Although some of the elected Lib Dems did
ask for common sense from the member of the council, it was left to the floor to really get her to understand why charging for a licensing system for
A-Boards mainly, is a bad idea.
I hadn't realised this was a Lib dem policy, I was told it was an idea promoted by a Sue Stephenson rather than a Lib Dem initiative.
I agree, putting even more cost on business shoulders in order to pay for council's indulgences is incredibly selfish. I'd love to see a
council give a little back to businesses and encourage us to expand rather than raping us for as much money as possible.
I'm not saying its Lib Dem policy, I am saying that the council is Lib Dem dominant and therefore they have the most power over things.
The council don't seem to want to help businesses that much, Take a look at Stockport Market for example, its freezing in there everyday.
The underfloor heating was put too low, so it doesn't work, they wont put over door blowers in or radiators in ever stall because its not in
keeping with the market heritage. Customers are complaining to the traders all the time about it, but the council don't seem to care,
more people would go to the market, stay longer and spend more money with the traders if it wasn't so cold.
Declaration of interest: My company has a stall on Stockport Market.
Just look at this:
'Nearly a third of all shops in Stockport town centre lie empty'
Cllr Dave Goddard response does not fill me with confidence, rents need to come way down. Nationally, the Conservative led
coalition is trying to help businesses with extended business rates relief, but landlords (inc. the council) need to act aswell.
Read more at: http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1481553_anger-as-stockport-tops-the-empty-shops-table
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Carl
The "A" board proposal at the AC the other night was absolutely nothing to do with the Lib Dem dominance of the Council. It was a proposal in DRAFT form put forward by a council officer - Sue Stevenson. I doubt that any local politician of any colour knew anything about the detail of it until they received the AC minutes a few days before the meeting.
If my information is correct , at Marple AC, two Councillors spoke out about it and from what I was told they were against the charges. None of them actually spoke out in support.
As far as the Conservative led coalition trying to help businesses.... I'm a local businessman and the first thing you did to "help" me as soon as you got elected was put my VAT rate up. Very helpful indeed ...
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Myself and Annette Finnie (Marple North) attended the Marple Area committee meeting on Wednesday. We were shocked that this Lib Dem dominant
council wanted to put extra costs onto businesses at a time when they are already struggling to survive. Although some of the elected Lib Dems did
ask for common sense from the member of the council, it was left to the floor to really get her to understand why charging for a licensing system for
A-Boards mainly, is a bad idea.
I hadn't realised this was a Lib dem policy, I was told it was an idea promoted by a Sue Stephenson rather than a Lib Dem initiative.
I agree, putting even more cost on business shoulders in order to pay for council's indulgences is incredibly selfish. I'd love to see a
council give a little back to businesses and encourage us to expand rather than raping us for as much money as possible.
I'm not saying its Lib Dem policy, I am saying that the council is Lib Dem dominant and therefore they have the most power over things.
The council don't seem to want to help businesses that much, Take a look at Stockport Market for example, its freezing in there everyday.
The underfloor heating was put too low, so it doesn't work, they wont put over door blowers in or radiators in ever stall because its not in
keeping with the market heritage. Customers are complaining to the traders all the time about it, but the council don't seem to care,
more people would go to the market, stay longer and spend more money with the traders if it wasn't so cold.
Declaration of interest: My company has a stall on Stockport Market.
Just look at this:
'Nearly a third of all shops in Stockport town centre lie empty'
Cllr Dave Goddard response does not fill me with confidence, rents need to come way down. Nationally, the Conservative led
coalition is trying to help businesses with extended business rates relief, but landlords (inc. the council) need to act aswell.
Read more at: http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1481553_anger-as-stockport-tops-the-empty-shops-table
You are not wrong there, business rates are ridiculous and the last national government continued to increase the rates to the point were they were non-collectable.
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Hmm, I see. So the idea is to spend even more on heating the market, while cutting the rents and business rates? Just as well these guys aren't running the council or we'd end up like Greece ;-)
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This may be a wild comment but should you and Annette have not questioned all that you are posting on this site whilst in attendance at the Area Committee meeting ? I am sure you are both more up to speed with how this works than myself but from what I saw when I was in attendance on Wed the chair asks if the public have comments or as you must be aware there is a facility to submit questions before hand. This is not a criticism, just an observation, but surely the opposition party in attendance at an Area Committee meeting would be best placed to raise the issue there directly. I was present a couple of months ago and witnessed Syd Lowe (conservative ) from another constituency going head to head with our local councillors over the Gypsy camp site issue. For an opposition party to just attend and not oppose appears a little strange to me, but there again I do not fully understand the intricacies of Area Committee, but I know what I would have done In your position ? Just a thought ?
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Hmm, I see. So the idea is to spend even more on heating the market, while cutting the rents and business rates? Just as well these guys aren't running the council or we'd end up like Greece ;-)
Ah Greece, the Ed Balls model!
Business rates are raping business out of existence. Surely it's better to cut the ridiculous non-services of councils and cut council staff than kill off real business that provide things that people really need as well as provide real jobs.
The obvious answer for the market would be to sell it to a commercial enterprise which has an interest in being consumer focussed?
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So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ? I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut ! All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities
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So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ? I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut ! All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities
I know it's not a Stockport council role but whilst we still have public sector roles that are the likes of a Nuclear-Free secretariat, there is a long way to go with the cuts.
Social workers? my experience of them was that they were hopeless and far too many of them. My Mother had 36 various social workers dealing with her 'case' it took them 8 months to come to an utterly unacceptable compromise which basically covered their individual back-sides rather than give any quality of life solution to my Mum [who was suffering with vascular dementia].
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Not too sure about Miss M's comments about our current Councillors. Whiffs to me of bald assertion without any evidential component.
I am sure that they are less than perfect but I think that Marple is a pretty good place to live in and some of the credit for that must surely go to the local Councillors. They probably benefit from a swift prod now and again but that applies to all people in public office as complacency so easily becomes the name of the game.
Being all the same party has obvious drawbacks but also some benefits. There are some Area Committees throughout the land that are absolutely paralysed by warring, party - politics, they can't agree on the smallest issues and never get any business done. It takes a year to get planning permission for your house extension. This is because all Committee members have different political colours. This doesn't apply to Marple as they are all of the same party.
If an independent candidate were to present then what would probably happen is that they would take 300/400 of the Lib Dem vote and let the Conservatives in. Have you seen what the all Conservative local Councillors have done to Bramhall? In the last ten years its become like staly- vegas. They've let everybody and everything in. Bars, Restaurants, Pubs, Takeaways, Tesco. Anything as long as it brings in money.
That's not what I want for Marple.
If an independent Candidate stood - the only thing that we could be sure of was that the independent Candidate wouldn't win.
Oh dear, they've allowed business to create wealth, we can't have that, no, absolutely not. They'll be creating jobs next.
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So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ? I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut ! All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities
I know it's not a Stockport council role but whilst we still have public sector roles that are the likes of a Nuclear-Free secretariat, there is a long way to go with the cuts.
Social workers? my experience of them was that they were hopeless and far too many of them. My Mother had 36 various social workers dealing with her 'case' it took them 8 months to come to an utterly unacceptable compromise which basically covered their individual back-sides rather than give any quality of life solution to my Mum [who was suffering with vascular dementia].
I can almost be 100% sure that your mother didn't live in Stockport, it would have been better if she had. Stockport has an excellent social services dept which prides itself in multi disciplinary working that thankfully protects dementia clients from slipping through the net.
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So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ? I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut ! All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities
I know it's not a Stockport council role but whilst we still have public sector roles that are the likes of a Nuclear-Free secretariat, there is a long way to go with the cuts.
Social workers? my experience of them was that they were hopeless and far too many of them. My Mother had 36 various social workers dealing with her 'case' it took them 8 months to come to an utterly unacceptable compromise which basically covered their individual back-sides rather than give any quality of life solution to my Mum [who was suffering with vascular dementia].
I can almost be 100% sure that your mother didn't live in Stockport, it would have been better if she had. Stockport has an excellent social services dept which prides itself in multi disciplinary working that thankfully protects dementia clients from slipping through the net.
Is was Hampshire, the problem was there were so many, whilst one made a suggestion which was plausible, there would be some other 'specialism' that would come up with the most ridiculous reason why it wasn't possible. There were 36 different social workers who's chief skill appeared to be a degree in saying "ah, we want the best for Mum". After 2 weeks of hospital, the docs said she could go home but it was in the hands of social services who work at a very slow pace. 8 months later & repeated infections later. Social services only actually allowed to go home after we insisted in kicking them into action. The last govt threw so much money at it, they were chronically over-staffed.
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Yes we do need business to create wealth and we do need a healthy job market. Economics though needs to be reconciled with the environment & the community. It isn't an easy achievement but it can be done.
What we don't want is business to the exclusion of everything else around it.
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I've been doing a little bit of research into Marple Councillor's allowances. Personally I don't really cherish a policy - view on this. I think it all depends on the individual Councillor. People should be paid for what they do and if you pay peanuts you often get monkeys - although I have to say that it has been my life's experience that sometimes, perversely, the more peanuts you pay - the bigger the monkey you actually get.
Anyway here are the "peanuts" in numerical form. In advance of this it has to be considered that each Councillor has different responsibilities from the other and therefore theoretically would have a different workload.
What follows is their individual allowance claim for electoral year 2011/2012 - May to May. Obviously we are not yet at the month of May 2012 so a little pro - rata exercise has taken place but this would have a minimal effect on the figures and would only alter them if such things such as deaths(perish the thought) or resignations/sackings etc happened.
It also has to be noted that these figures are gross figures which are taxed at source and wherein the Councillor has to run his/her own office from - with all the overhead implications that this has.
Basic allowance for all Stockport Councillors is £9554.52 per annum.
In ascending order of remuneration for year 2011/2012.
Councillors;
Kevin Dowling £9554.52
Craig Wright £9554.52
Andrew Bispham £13,318.41
Susan Ingham £14,187.09
Martin Candler £24,031.18
Shan Alexander £24,031.18
It may or not be relevant but Councillor Ben Alexander (Shan's husband) who is a Liberal Dem Councillor
for Stepping Hill - £18,000.59.
So there is £42 grand plus going into Maison Alexander.
Now we have real numbers to have an opinion on.
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Yes we do need business to create wealth and we do need a healthy job market. Economics though needs to be reconciled with the environment & the community. It isn't an easy achievement but it can be done.
What we don't want is business to the exclusion of everything else around it.
Business drives the community though. Why did Marple exist? why was there a canal here? Why did Manchester exist? it's all down to business and commerce. As Rousseau (sp) said, where there is commerce, there are manners.
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Assuming Cllrs Alexander and Candler have time-consuming 'executive' roles which preclude them holding down a full-time job as well, it's not a lot, is it. Maybe if we paid a bit more we might get better councillors?
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Thanks for the research into the expenses - excellent work.
One of my initial points was that there are only two serious and credible political groups in Marple. The Liberal Democrats and the Marple in Action campaign. I know MiA is not political with a big P and it is a single issue group, not a party, let me be clear on that. However, in their different capacities as good citizens it was David Hoyle and Mick McPhee raising the voices of opposition on the issue of the A boards. Both are leading and very visible members of MiA, but my point is this - they as independent voices with a strong community commitment are much more effective than the Conservatives in holding the members to account. I agree about Syd Lloyd - I know him as we're both Governors of a school in the area - and he's a heavyweight.
The silence on Wednesday night and the lack of visibility locally concerns me. There are big issues for Marple ahead and I don't have any confidence in the Tories locally, 1, in being the body capable of toppling Shan Alexander, who I believe deserves to be voted out and 2, should they win by stealth and on a LibDem backlash, of representing the community effectively.
I am very flattered and encouraged by the many messages of the support on this important issue. It deserves careful time and thought.
Kind regards,
Michael Taylor
Michael Taylor
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Thanks for the research into the expenses - excellent work.
One of my initial points was that there are only two serious and credible political groups in Marple. The Liberal Democrats and the Marple in Action campaign. I know MiA is not political with a big P and it is a single issue group, not a party, let me be clear on that. However, in their different capacities as good citizens it was David Hoyle and Mick McPhee raising the voices of opposition on the issue of the A boards. Both are leading and very visible members of MiA, but my point is this - they as independent voices with a strong community commitment are much more effective than the Conservatives in holding the members to account. I agree about Syd Lloyd - I know him as we're both Governors of a school in the area - and he's a heavyweight.
The silence on Wednesday night and the lack of visibility locally concerns me. There are big issues for Marple ahead and I don't have any confidence in the Tories locally, 1, in being the body capable of toppling Shan Alexander, who I believe deserves to be voted out and 2, should they win by stealth and on a LibDem backlash, of representing the community effectively.
I am very flattered and encouraged by the many messages of the support on this important issue. It deserves careful time and thought.
Kind regards,
Michael Taylor
Michael Taylor
IWhilst I’m aware that the ‘A’ board issue was presented to the business community by Sue Stevenson but Carl’s point has got me thinking. This issue is possibly indirectly from ‘above’, I suspect that when council tax increases were rightly frozen (albeit not reduced), the intention was that councils find efficiencies, stop wasteful spending etc. Some councils take a view of maximising income from elsewhere (see Dickie Leese’s council wrecking city centre trade by increasing car parking fees) and that means underhand traffic offense traps and leaching off businesses by creating an ‘A’ board licence scheme. It was interesting that Sue Stevenson didn’t suggest there was a problem with ‘A’ bards or ask the business community how it could police itself by being responsible with ‘a’ board siting, it was another way of extracting money.
I know Michael to be a reasonable chap (although slightly perturbed at the use of ‘we’ when twittering with John (bitter about being caught out) Prescott ) and if he ran as a councillor I’d give fair consideration, my big worry would be that by backing an indy in Marple, Stockport may well become Labour, the thought of that is scary.
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Local government has been so emasculated by successive national governments in recent years that it's hard to see how a Labour council in Stockport could conceivably be 'scary'. As marpleaf pointed out earlier in this very thread, there is little that 'ideologically separates the political parties on the kinds of issues that most councillors have to deal with.'
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So what are you saying Duke ? That social workers should be cut have you really any idea how many cuts to services have been made ? I agree they should start cutting at the top but it is front line not back office that's being cut ! All that said Stockport really does have excellent services compared to other authorities
I know it's not a Stockport council role but whilst we still have public sector roles that are the likes of a Nuclear-Free secretariat, there is a long way to go with the cuts.
Social workers? my experience of them was that they were hopeless and far too many of them. My Mother had 36 various social workers dealing with her 'case' it took them 8 months to come to an utterly unacceptable compromise which basically covered their individual back-sides rather than give any quality of life solution to my Mum [who was suffering with vascular dementia].
I can almost be 100% sure that your mother didn't live in Stockport, it would have been better if she had. Stockport has an excellent social services dept which prides itself in multi disciplinary working that thankfully protects dementia clients from slipping through the net.
Is was Hampshire, the problem was there were so many, whilst one made a suggestion which was plausible, there would be some other 'specialism' that would come up with the most ridiculous reason why it wasn't possible. There were 36 different social workers who's chief skill appeared to be a degree in saying "ah, we want the best for Mum". After 2 weeks of hospital, the docs said she could go home but it was in the hands of social services who work at a very slow pace. 8 months later & repeated infections later. Social services only actually allowed to go home after we insisted in kicking them into action. The last govt threw so much money at it, they were chronically over-staffed.
That wouldn't be Conservative controlled Hampshire with its outsourced Social Services Provider would it?
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Oh dear, they've allowed business to create wealth, we can't have that, no, absolutely not. They'll be creating jobs next.
It's the workers who create wealth - how about a history course on the forum
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Yes, the "workers" create all the wealth, apart from when there is no actual company to create wealth from and an individual like Bill Gates, Sergy Brin or Steve Jobs has to come along and create it. If the "workers" had been in control of this country for the past 150 years we would be still be saying "have you met my son, the handloom weaver"?"
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Mr Duke - just to be clear - the "we" over John Prescott referred to the yes campaign for a regional assembly in 2002/3, I think. I was involved in that. So was a proud son of Marple called Anthony H Wilson. It was utterly rejected by the voters of the North East and kicked into the long grass thereafter. I also think a change is coming in Stockport, one way or another.
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Oh dear, they've allowed business to create wealth, we can't have that, no, absolutely not. They'll be creating jobs next.
It's the workers who create wealth - how about a history course on the forum
Not without enterprise they didn't.
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Mr Duke - just to be clear - the "we" over John Prescott referred to the yes campaign for a regional assembly in 2002/3, I think. I was involved in that. So was a proud son of Marple called Anthony H Wilson. It was utterly rejected by the voters of the North East and kicked into the long grass thereafter. I also think a change is coming in Stockport, one way or another.
Very true, gods country knows a lame duck when we see it.
In order to work, regional assemblies would have to rip power from local councils to be worthwhile, the proposal silly enabled another layer of fudge and egos to be fed. Not surprised Tony Wilson was keen on it.
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Flipping heck ! I thought councillors expenses was for petrol allowances and parking. The funniest thing is that when 350 people turned out to that now much talked about Area Committee Meeting in the park last year. The cost of alerting the community was a pack of paper (£2.50) and half an ink cartridge and the use of my kitchen table. Even with all those expenses the best our elected members can do is get a handful of the community to attend an Area Committee Meeting Have we any idea what the expenses are for? is there a break down available anywhere
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Marpleleaf,
Things only change if people make those changes.
An Independent Candidate in Marple conjures up a multiplicity of possible election outcomes.
I agree with you about the Conservatives, they probably haven't got the political organisation to mount a serious challenge against the LibDems in marple and if they did get in then they probably couldn't properly represent the Marple Community. No offence Carl but I think you'd be eaten for breakfast in the Council Chamber. Maybe in a couple of years eh!
Marpleleaf... a bit concerned about your political judgement on Syd Lloyd as a "heavyweight". As you know he showed up at AC last year. Obviously he had no interest in Marple he was just party politicking, mischief making. He came with 2 Questions;
1/ For Shan Alexander - he seemed to be the only one in the room who didn't know she was on holday in Sri Lanka - which said little for his awareness and research - especially when he sits on the same Council as she does, he was fobbed off with the proverbial "written answer" which he probaby never got anyway.
2/ He challenged Martin Candler and easily came second best in the joust.
He might be a big fish in the small pond of school governorship but in Stockport Council, even by fellow Conservatives he is not thought be up to much.
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Flipping heck ! I thought councillors expenses was for petrol allowances and parking. The funniest thing is that when 350 people turned out to that now much talked about Area Committee Meeting in the park last year. The cost of alerting the community was a pack of paper (£2.50) and half an ink cartridge and the use of my kitchen table. Even with all those expenses the best our elected members can do is get a handful of the community to attend an Area Committee Meeting Have we any idea what the expenses are for? is there a break down available anywhere
Over in Manchester the town clerk claimed over £55k in expenses on top of his salary and that excludes the lavish receptions at the town hall he likes to throw.
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Thanks finetimefontaine for doing what I should have done and find the actual expenses figures! I'm sure in addition to this there was an article last year(?) about councillors claiming for 1st class travel and there were several, what many would consider unnecessary expenses, paid trips abroad. If I get chance I will try and find the articles!
Duke... clerks are employees.. its sad they claim excessive expenses, but we don't vote them in. the councillors we DO vote in could change this but why would they?
As for a labour led council... it would be years before that happened!! However I don't care who takes charge, the lib dems have been in power here too long and are stale and complacent.
We talk about them as part of a national party structure, which of course they are, however one local lib dem party can be completely different than the next, similarly with all the other parties.
I have been in a slanging match with 3 local lib dems at the same time as working closely with 50 other local lib dems in different parts of the country. I could also be working with tories here whilst fighting with another one somewhere else. Same with labour.
It didn't usually depend on national political policy, and it didn't depend on who was in control of the council, as we were working with several lib dem councils. Length of council control and a overwhelming majority did seem to be a factor though.
So I don't care who takes charge as long as they're fresh keen and interested in US !
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Duke... clerks are employees.. its sad they claim excessive expenses, but we don't vote them in. the councillors we DO vote in could change this but why would they?
As for a labour led council... it would be years before that happened!! However I don't care who takes charge, the lib dems have been in power here too long and are stale and complacent.
Lisa, the Town Clerk I refer to is a councillor by the name of Dickie Leese, he's got a grand title or leader of the city or something but essentially it's a town Clerk's job. I'd agree that where parties get too cosy they stop trying, the same town clerk I refer to has cost the taxpayer millions of pounds, cautioned for assaulting a 14 year old girl and still he's in such a safe seat he's not been voted out.
In an ideal world, I'd like an indy councillor, someone who's ran a business, done their bit and ready to give a little back. Even though I agree that there are some great Labour supporters as well as the bad ones, they tend not to be as grounded as the other parties and in these times that need prudence, it's a bit of a risk to let them go all fluffy kittens with out council tax money.
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Hello Lisa/Duke,
I've forgotten what this debate is about now but I have to side with Duke about Dickie. Sir Richard Leese, elected member for Crumpsall. "knighted for services to local government". Last year he was paid £53,153,27. When you are a Council Leader you are automatically elected to other bodies (all paid) E.G Police Authority, Fire Authority, TfGM, GMWDA .... THERE'S PLENTY OF THEM TO GO AROUND FOR THE SELECTED FEW. In Dickie's case this probably nets him another £53 GRAND.
MCC Councillors basic annual attendence allowance is £16,095,81 almost double what Stockport Councilors receive - why is that?
Only the half - truth though Duke about the assault. It was Dickie's teen-age stepdaughter and it was an "altercation" about her conduct. Those of us that have had teen-age stepdaughters understand what that is about. Anyway, do our Councillors have to pure as the driven snow or are they allowed to have family problems that sometimes get a little out of hand?
I don't think anybody begrudges paying a good Councillor a fair allowance but 54Grand x2 ! ... that's just a gravy train when Social Workers and Lollipop Ladies are being sacked!
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Hello Lisa/Duke,
I've forgotten what this debate is about now but I have to side with Duke about Dickie. Sir Richard Leese, elected member for Crumpsall. "knighted for services to local government". Last year he was paid £53,153,27. When you are a Council Leader you are automatically elected to other bodies (all paid) E.G Police Authority, Fire Authority, TfGM, GMWDA .... THERE'S PLENTY OF THEM TO GO AROUND FOR THE SELECTED FEW. In Dickie's case this probably nets him another £53 GRAND.
MCC Councillors basic annual attendence allowance is £16,095,81 almost double what Stockport Councilors receive - why is that?
Only the half - truth though Duke about the assault. It was Dickie's teen-age stepdaughter and it was an "altercation" about her conduct. Those of us that have had teen-age stepdaughters understand what that is about. Anyway, do our Councillors have to pure as the driven snow or are they allowed to have family problems that sometimes get a little out of hand?
I don't think anybody begrudges paying a good Councillor a fair allowance but 54Grand x2 ! ... that's just a gravy train when Social Workers and Lollipop Ladies are being sacked!
To be honest, I'm with you on both Councillor's brush with the law. I understand that we could all have a horrific accident in our car when we're going about our business and it must have been awful for the Stockport MP to lose a colleague in that way, at the same time I'm sure many a parent has lost their temper with their kids.
The huge issue I had was Dickie Leese was his TIF project and the more I looked into what he did, the more i wondered what his motivation was. As you say, the guy does very well out of having a seat at various tables and I felt there was a decent chance that had the Tif gone ahead that may have been another position he took up. His expenses claims are large, he appears to be enjoying a lot of big bashes at the town hall, it doesn't seem to have much to do with making sure the roads are kept clean, pot-holes filled in and other things that councils are supposed to do.
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So they where does all this leave Marple, the Councillor situation in general and the forthcoming May election in particular?
Perhaps, Miss Marple is right when she says that the Community gets the Councillors it deserves! Because if we are apathetic this is what will happen. When I say apathetic I don't just mean at the ballot box or in the community although that's important. What about the apathy on this website to the Councillors we have actually got?
Personally, I don't share the jaundiced view that some of us have of all our Councillors. I think that they are a mixed bag as you would expect of six different people. I've heard that at least two of them go about quietly using their influence to do things separately for people in the community. Small things that they don't have to do, things that don't win votes in clusters, don't get a mention at Area Committee or are not big issues but nevertheless things that are important to individuals in our Community. I also agree that some of them are long past their sell by date, are there for themselves and need to go quietly.
I say let's identify and keep the good one's and get rid of the bad ones.
HOW TO DO IT THATS THE QUESTION ?
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It will be interesting how many votes a candidate would get if they stood up for people that worked all day and don’t wish to have to drive outside of Maple to do their weekly food shop?
It seems all the likely candidates at present, think the small independent shops are more important than facilities with long opening hours for full time workers.
However only people with the time to use the local shops and plan their life round the opening hours of the independent shops are likely to have the time to stand.
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Absolutely agree with Ringi - anyone who stands for election with a policy against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane without even having seen any plans won't get my vote. Agreed too about the lack of choice of shops for those who are at work all day - we don't have the luxury of time or opportunity to saunter round the "independents".
If we choose not to drive to shop then we are stuck with the Co-op. £7.45 for four tiny cans of tuna, anyone? - that is outrageous. Time for some decent competition.
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£7.45 for four tiny cans of tuna, anyone? - that is outrageous. Time for some decent competition.
Some would argue that to pay a fisherman to land a Tuna, dispose of the dead Dolphin they accidently caught, get rid of all the guts and bits, put it in cans and then fly it half way around the world, £7.45 for 3/4 a kilo of tuna may be fairly good value if that fisherman needs to earn an average UK wage.
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£7.45 for four tiny cans of tuna, anyone? - that is outrageous. Time for some decent competition.
Some would argue that to pay a fisherman to land a Tuna, dispose of the dead Dolphin they accidently caught, get rid of all the guts and bits, put it in cans and then fly it half way around the world, £7.45 for 3/4 a kilo of tuna may be fairly good value if that fisherman needs to earn an average UK wage.
Not when you can get four tins of princess tuna at Iceland for three pounds .it was that price last week but they are busy this week putting up some of there prices .
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£7.45 for four tiny cans of tuna, anyone? - that is outrageous. Time for some decent competition.
Some would argue that to pay a fisherman to land a Tuna, dispose of the dead Dolphin they accidently caught, get rid of all the guts and bits, put it in cans and then fly it half way around the world, £7.45 for 3/4 a kilo of tuna may be fairly good value if that fisherman needs to earn an average UK wage.
Not when you can get four tins of princess tuna at Iceland for three pounds .it was that price last week but they are busy this week putting up some of there prices .
It's a fine line, do we want cheap protein & people in Thailand working 20 hours for less money than benefits scrounger in this country or do we want to give a fair days pay for a fair day of work?
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Dave...on your comments about both Councillors brush with the law...spot on sympathetic good understanding of human nature point of view. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
Ringi... must admit I'd never even thought of it that way before. You've certainly got a point. Gives creedence to Dave's post about paying more and getting better Councillors. Maybe if we did then people who can't stand for election because they've got to work, could stop work then they could stand. Of course the risk is that they'd have to get elected before they got paid. There's no simple answer is there?
Let's face it the Co-op in Marple lets us all down particularly those with growing families. Overpriced, narrow sell by dates, low wages for the staff, poor variety, badly stocked ... That's something I do think the Council could have done something about. Saw one of our Councillors last Sunday coming out of M & S in Handforth Dean - trolley laden...obviously wasn't shopping in Marple co-op that day. Before you ask - YES, I was shopping there too.
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£7.45 for four tiny cans of tuna, anyone? - that is outrageous. Time for some decent competition.
Some would argue that to pay a fisherman to land a Tuna, dispose of the dead Dolphin they accidently caught, get rid of all the guts and bits, put it in cans and then fly it half way around the world, £7.45 for 3/4 a kilo of tuna may be fairly good value if that fisherman needs to earn an average UK wage.
Morrison's, Tesco, Asda et al are all doing that but they are charging half the price.
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£7.45 for four tiny cans of tuna, anyone? - that is outrageous. Time for some decent competition.
Some would argue that to pay a fisherman to land a Tuna, dispose of the dead Dolphin they accidently caught, get rid of all the guts and bits, put it in cans and then fly it half way around the world, £7.45 for 3/4 a kilo of tuna may be fairly good value if that fisherman needs to earn an average UK wage.
Morrison's, Tesco, Asda et al are all doing that but they are charging half the price.
So is Iceland in Marple !
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So Finetimefontain having an Asda in Marple possibly wouldn't change your shopping habits. You must have had to drive past or be in very close proximity to an Asda Tesco Morrison's or Salisbury's on route but still went to M&S am I missing something ?
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So Finetimefontain having an Asda in Marple possibly wouldn't change your shopping habits. You must have had to drive past or be in very close proximity to an Asda Tesco Morrison's or Salisbury's on route but still went to M&S am I missing something ?
Miss Marple; Your're right on all counts...It probably would, I must have done, yet I still did, you probaby are and so probably am I...
Well call me shorty and hit me with a big stick!
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Dave...on your comments about both Councillors brush with the law...spot on sympathetic good understanding of human nature point of view. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
Ringi... must admit I'd never even thought of it that way before. You've certainly got a point. Gives creedence to Dave's post about paying more and getting better Councillors. Maybe if we did then people who can't stand for election because they've got to work, could stop work then they could stand. Of course the risk is that they'd have to get elected before they got paid. There's no simple answer is there?
Let's face it the Co-op in Marple lets us all down particularly those with growing families. Overpriced, narrow sell by dates, low wages for the staff, poor variety, badly stocked ... That's something I do think the Council could have done something about. Saw one of our Councillors last Sunday coming out of M & S in Handforth Dean - trolley laden...obviously wasn't shopping in Marple co-op that day. Before you ask - YES, I was shopping there too.
But would he shop there if we had a supermarket in marple .
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Dave...on your comments about both Councillors brush with the law...spot on sympathetic good understanding of human nature point of view. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
Ringi... must admit I'd never even thought of it that way before. You've certainly got a point. Gives creedence to Dave's post about paying more and getting better Councillors. Maybe if we did then people who can't stand for election because they've got to work, could stop work then they could stand. Of course the risk is that they'd have to get elected before they got paid. There's no simple answer is there?
Let's face it the Co-op in Marple lets us all down particularly those with growing families. Overpriced, narrow sell by dates, low wages for the staff, poor variety, badly stocked ... That's something I do think the Council
could have done something about. Saw one of our Councillors last Sunday coming out of M & S in Handforth Dean - trolley laden...obviously wasn't shopping in Marple co-op that day. Before you ask - YES, I was shopping there too.
But would he shop there if we had a supermarket in MARPLE.
Yes she would !
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Dave...on your comments about both Councillors brush with the law...spot on sympathetic good understanding of human nature point of view. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
Ringi... must admit I'd never even thought of it that way before. You've certainly got a point. Gives creedence to Dave's post about paying more and getting better Councillors. Maybe if we did then people who can't stand for election because they've got to work, could stop work then they could stand. Of course the risk is that they'd have to get elected before they got paid. There's no simple answer is there?
Let's face it the Co-op in Marple lets us all down particularly those with growing families. Overpriced, narrow sell by dates, low wages for the staff, poor variety, badly stocked ... That's something I do think the Council
could have done something about. Saw one of our Councillors last Sunday coming out of M & S in Handforth Dean - trolley laden...obviously wasn't shopping in Marple co-op that day. Before you ask - YES, I was shopping there too.
But would he shop there if we had a supermarket in MARPLE.
Yes she would !
sorry she
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Miss Marple
I may have imagined this but did you say on this site not so long ago that MIA were going to field a candidate in May's elections ?
I think that this would be superb idea. It would certainly give the Libdems a start and would put down a marker for elections in 2014 !
Any news , any progress?
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I don't remember saying that ! But no doubt someone will find the quote and prove me wrong!
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No not necessarily,
As say I could have imagined it.
From your comments then I take it that it's not going to happen - shame!
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It certainly is a shame but it looks like the LiBDems are going to have it all their own way again in Marple. As I've said before I'm not a LiBDem luvver nor hater. I think that they've got a couple of good people's Councillors but I think that they've got a couple of bad one's as well. Incidentally Marpleleaf I'd be interested to know if you trust the same two that I do but I understand if you don't want to name names.
2013 is a fallow year - no elections. We'll have total LibDem til 2014 - that can't be good for democracy.
Marpleleaf have you considerd your position yet as a possible candidate - maybe you could get an MIA nomination ? I can't remember where you stand on the supermarket - obviously you would have to be against it to get such a nomination. I've been looking at and reconsidering the political landscape. There is an outside chance that you could win or if not let the Conservatives in but even that would be better for democracy than 6 LIBDEMS for the next two years.
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I thought we had 6 representatives:
Councillor Shan Alexander
Councillor Andrew Bispham
Councillor Martin Candler
Councillor Susan Ingham (Chair)
Councillor Craig Wright (Vice-Chair)
Councillor Kevin Dowling
Is there an election this year?
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Duke,
You're right there are six Councillors - just thought that two of them didn't warrant a mention.
You've minded me of what I think is a good point and a very important one to this Community - our Councillors!
Elections are on May 3rd (Cllrs ; Shan & Martin - just trying to be friendly) and IMHO we are going to be left with very same 6 Councillors that we've got now - that's at least until May 2014. By that time most of the big issues; Hibbert Lane Asda, High - Lane Reservoir, Marple Hall bridlepath, Disley Tissues, will have been resolved one way or another.
Instead of just attacking our Councillors on this website or the same handful of people going to the AC every month with the same view of attack. Which only serves to give them a collective siege mentality, then perhaps we could use this website to be more constructive about them - tell the what we think/want - actually engage with them in a rationale way - might help improve their performance. We could start a new thread ..."MARPLE COUNCILLORS"... just a suggestion...what do you think out there...maybe you could set it up admin?
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Duke,
You're right there are six Councillors - just thought that two of them didn't warrant a mention.
You've minded me of what I think is a good point and a very important one to this Community - our Councillors!
Elections are on May 3rd (Cllrs ; Shan & Martin - just trying to be friendly) and IMHO we are going to be left with very same 6 Councillors that we've got now - that's at least until May 2014. By that time most of the big issues; Hibbert Lane Asda, High - Lane Reservoir, Marple Hall bridlepath, Disley Tissues, will have been resolved one way or another.
Instead of just attacking our Councillors on this website or the same handful of people going to the AC every month with the same view of attack. Which only serves to give them a collective siege mentality, then perhaps we could use this website to be more constructive about them - tell the what we think/want - actually engage with them in a rationale way - might help improve their performance. We could start a new thread ..."MARPLE COUNCILLORS"... just a suggestion...what do you think out there...maybe you could set it up admin?
What is the Marple AC & when is it? I may fancy comming along.
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Ah Dickie Leese.. yes.. he used to be a good man... most politicians start off that way.... :(
but its MCC.. we are powerless to stop or change what goes on over there. Yes of course its wrong, but the fact the expenses system is more generous than Stockports doesn't make it right in Stockport, doesn't make our councillors better, nicer kinder, more effective!
I can affect change here, as can you. So we should concentrate on that
"engage with them in a rationale way".. what like email issues, suggestions requests? talk to them on the phone in a rational manner, on the street ant meetings? yeah..tried that! Andrew Bispham is the only one i can say has; 1 responded to any email; 2. entered into valuable and interesting dialogue. As a result hes the only lib dem I would consider voting for. ( note theres a couple of newish councillors since I last had to email that I dont have an opinion on yet except that gauged from this site)
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What is the Marple AC & when is it? I may fancy comming along.
Perhaps you are being a little tongue in cheek here Duke - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The MARPLE AREA COMMITTEE is a committee that convenes every month to formally discuss,regulate and endorse issues that effect the political ward of MARPLE. Local Councillors are in attendance and it is open to all members of the public.
NEXT ONE...WEDNESDSAY 26/3/2012 @ 6PM - MARPLE LIBRARY
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What is the Marple AC & when is it? I may fancy comming along.
Perhaps you are being a little tongue in cheek here Duke - but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
The MARPLE AREA COMMITTEE is a committee that convenes every month to formally discuss,regulate and endorse issues that effect the political ward of MARPLE. Local Councillors are in attendance and it is open to all members of the public.
NEXT ONE...WEDNESDSAY 26/3/2012 @ 6PM - MARPLE LIBRARY
Thanks, I really didn't know.
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There is only one Lib Dem councillor that I would vote for, but for the man not his politics-Andrew Bispham. I consider him to be honourable and truthfull. even if you don't like his answer.
Councillors who do not show respect for the fallen at remembrance services and wear silly hats, have no place in my heart.
Councillors should take stock of past activies and reflect upon there achievements and failures and consider that now is the time to go and give way to more conscientious and dedicated local people who don't do it just for expenses and perks
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There is only one Lib Dem councillor that I would vote for, but for the man not his politics-Andrew Bispham. I consider him to be honourable and truthfull. even if you don't like his answer.
Councillors who do not show respect for the fallen at remembrance services and wear silly hats, have no place in my heart.
Councillors should take stock of past activies and reflect upon there achievements and failures and consider that now is the time to go and give way to more conscientious and dedicated local people who don't do it just for expenses and perks
Who are these disrespectful Councillors - how did they do this?
I certainly can't think of any politician local or otherwise who could have a place in my heart.
Who are these conscientious and dedicated people? Step forward show yourselves - Alan I THINK THATS WHERE WE CAME IN.
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There is only one Lib Dem councillor that I would vote for, but for the man not his politics-Andrew Bispham. I consider him to be honourable and truthfull. even if you don't like his answer.
Which politics don't you agree with?
Councillors who do not show respect for the fallen at remembrance services and wear silly hats, have no place in my heart.
Who was that Alan? Is the problem that a councillor didn't attend which I can sympathise with or the person wore a comedy hat?
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Duke had you been stood where I was you would have seen, on two services
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There is only one Lib Dem councillor that I would vote for, but for the man not his politics-Andrew Bispham. I consider him to be honourable and truthfull. even if you don't like his answer.
Councillors who do not show respect for the fallen at remembrance services and wear silly hats, have no place in my heart.
Councillors should take stock of past activies and reflect upon there achievements and failures and consider that now is the time to go and give way to more conscientious and dedicated local people who don't do it just for expenses and perks
Well said Alan !
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Duke had you been stood where I was you would have seen, on two services
you are going to have to enlighten me Alan, I wasn't there and as I don't really do god, I'd be rather hypocritical in doing so.
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Thanks for keeping this thread lively and well informed.
Just to get one thing out of the way. Marple in Action - of which I am a supporter - is NOT going to field candidates in the election. I have asked the question, debated it with different people in the area as an idea and agree with the importance of the campaign being single minded in being single issue and against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
I started the discussion thread to get an idea whether there was an appetite for a local independent candidate to stand in the local elections in May against Shan Alexander in my ward. My concern comes from the wards in Marple having credible representation in Stockport Council AND leading a debate in the council chamber and committees about what kind of place Marple should be in the future? - if not a supermarket on Hibbert Lane, then what? What sports facilities will Marple have if the baths are shut? What could deliver the ambition of the Civic Society's vision for the area - who could even inspire and raise it?
Here is my analysis of the local situation
1. Shan Alexander won with a majority of 600+ in 2008 and on a 50% share of the vote
2. There will be a meltdown in the Lib Dem vote nationally, this will play out locally too - but their share of the vote has held firm in Marple at around 50%
3. Shan Alexander is a tainted candidate - her criminal conviction, her fence sitting and late conversion to the College sell off issue reveals her to be of cynical judgement.
4. Change is possible.
5. The Tories could win the seat by default, but I don't know who the candidate is. They haven't joined this debate, but there has been nothing to give anyone here comfort that they are a credible force.
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Thanks for keeping this thread lively and well informed.
Just to get one thing out of the way. Marple in Action - of which I am a supporter - is NOT going to field candidates in the election. I have asked the question, debated it with different people in the area as an idea and agree with the importance of the campaign being single minded in being single issue and against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
I started the discussion thread to get an idea whether there was an appetite for a local independent candidate to stand in the local elections in May against Shan Alexander in my ward. My concern comes from the wards in Marple having credible representation in Stockport Council AND leading a debate in the council chamber and committees about what kind of place Marple should be in the future? - if not a supermarket on Hibbert Lane, then what? What sports facilities will Marple have if the baths are shut? What could deliver the ambition of the Civic Society's vision for the area - who could even inspire and raise it?
Here is my analysis of the local situation
1. Shan Alexander won with a majority of 600+ in 2008 and on a 50% share of the vote
2. There will be a meltdown in the Lib Dem vote nationally, this will play out locally too - but their share of the vote has held firm in Marple at around 50%
3. Shan Alexander is a tainted candidate - her criminal conviction, her fence sitting and late conversion to the College sell off issue reveals her to be of cynical judgement.
4. Change is possible.
5. The Tories could win the seat by default, but I don't know who the candidate is. They haven't joined this debate, but there has been nothing to give anyone here comfort that they are a credible force.
I though the conservative candidate has been active n the debate.
I think it's a little unfair, Michael. I'm not sure of Shan's politics myself but i think to highlight the criminal conviction is unfair. You give a fair bit of support to Richard Leese (which professionally i suppose you have to) but would you think it fair for the opposition to attack him on his ability to assault teenage girls? As mentioned earlier, I think both incidents must have been awful for all concerned and something that can happen to anyone.
By all means attack Shan's politics but her conviction seems to be an accident that I'm very thankful has never happened to me but i don;t think it makes her a bad person.
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Dukey - I applaud your sense of fairness. Though I have criticised her publicly, and I believe she should have stood down from public life following her conviction, I haven't exactly waged a vendetta since.
That said, I just think the cold hard politics of it means she's tainted as a candidate. Just as Cllr Leese will be when he faces his public in Crumpsall come May, but to a lesser degree as there's a difference between accepting a caution for assault and pleading guilty to the charge she copped for.
As for the Conservatives - if they started doing a bit more PR, a street surgery on a Saturday, a leaflet drop, got themselves a website and identified themselves as being full square behind the hard pressed small businesses of Marple, then they could win the seat at a canter. But then so could an independent.
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Dukey - I applaud your sense of fairness. Though I have criticised her publicly, and I believe she should have stood down from public life following her conviction, I haven't exactly waged a vendetta since.
That said, I just think the cold hard politics of it means she's tainted as a candidate. Just as Cllr Leese will be when he faces his public in Crumpsall come May, but to a lesser degree as there's a difference between accepting a caution for assault and pleading guilty to the charge she copped for.
As for the Conservatives - if they started doing a bit more PR, a street surgery on a Saturday, a leaflet drop, got themselves a website and identified themselves as being full square behind the hard pressed small businesses of Marple, then they could win the seat at a canter. But then so could an independent.
There is unrest in Shan Alexanders ward , we want to know why she kept the issue of a supermarket secret to her constituents. Shan Alexander was a council governour at CAMSFC and had a duty to the people who put her in power. Even when she stood down as a Governor she kept the secret to herself, and if we are to believe Andrew Stunnell who said he knew nothing about the sale, then that means that the delightful Shan failed to even keep her leader in the loop So the community don't stand a chance ! It's a strange old world this world of politics (small p )
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That's not fair either miss M. Why should she report to her mp? If her party didn't hold a seat in parliament, did she have to talk to the guy who lost last time?
Andrew has given you as much support as he possibly can, given his position, careful about cutting your nose off.
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Duke had you been stood where I was you would have seen, on two services
you are going to have to enlighten me Alan, I wasn't there and as I don't really do god, I'd be rather hypocritical in doing so.
It's not about God, i'ts respect and thanks
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Duke had you been stood where I was you would have seen, on two services
you are going to have to enlighten me Alan, I wasn't there and as I don't really do god, I'd be rather hypocritical in doing so.
It's not about God, i'ts respect and thanks
I think we can register respect without an imaginary friend.
So who wore the comedy hat?
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That's not fair either miss M. Why should she report to her mp? If her party didn't hold a seat in parliament, did she have to talk to the guy who lost last time?
Andrew has given you as much support as he possibly can, given his position, careful about cutting your nose off.
It would have been nice for her to have declared an interest in her college / supermarket involvement to Andrew Stunnal who looked a little confused when he learnt from MIA that Shan had been in meetings with the college over issues concerning. Supermarket. I have no axe to grind with Andrew I think you need to re read my post :-\
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So, Michael, are you going to throw your hat in the ring?
If so, what will you do to reduce council taxes?
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As you would expect there is a lot of stuff on this thread about local Councillors. I think that the consensus is that the current local Councillors are out of touch with the community of Marple. I don't know whether they are or whether they're not. I really don't know how you would measure it. I do know that being out of touch works both ways. I've seen and heard all the local Councillors on occasions and if appearances are anything to go by, then they are all individual. Surely all of them can't be out of touch with the Community the same as all of them can't be in touch to the same degree.
We all seem to hold these views about them (and I know they are there to be shot at) one of our posters actually condemns a Councillor because of the hat he/she wears - I mean, come on...!
My point is this - does anybody have any experience/contact/communication with these Councillors or do we know of anybody that has - what are our opinions actually based on. How do we know whether they are in the pub all day or that they are fighting tooth and nail for Marple behind closed Town Hall Doors. There are regular published meetings concerning all aspects of local government - all are open to the public - have any of us ever been to any? I spent a Saturday morning some time ago in Memorial Park. One of the local Councillors was holding surgery in the library. I could clearly see them. They sat there for about two hours - not one person came. - If I was that Councillor I think that I could be forgiven for thinking - ALL'S WELL IN MARPLE....maybe we're out of touch with them.
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I’ve had a quite a lot of dealings with Marple Councillors over the last 10 or 11 years due to my involvement with the Iron Bridge Restoration, Friends of Marple Memorial Park and other community projects. As a result I have got to know most of our past and present councillors fairly well. From my perspective, as a community volunteer who likes to get things done, they have always been extremely supportive and in touch with what’s going on. In my experience they’ve also always acted with the best interest of the community in mind.
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One more thing that has just occurred to me.
To state the obvious this is the Marple Community Website. Now I could be wrong and I certainly don't have the time to check every single posting that has ever been and I'm willing to be corrected. There are six local Councillors and a lot of issues that crop up in a year and probably a lot of information to be imparted and a lot of opinion to be shared. I have no way of knowing if the Marple Councillors keep in touch with this site -you would hope that they would....BUT I CANNOT RECALL EVER SEEING ONE SINGLE POSTING FROM A COUNCILLOR - NOT ONE..ABOUT ANYTHING AT ALL...I think that's very strange.
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Why is it strange? What is the point in getting into long-running debates with people on this forum who are anonymous? It would just lead to criticism, diatribes and personal attacks from the usual suspects. All of the councillors have regular surgeries and advertise, publicly, their telephone numbers. Nothing "strange" about that. Of course, if anyone thinks they could do a better job...........
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....BUT I CANNOT RECALL EVER SEEING ONE SINGLE POSTING FROM A COUNCILLOR - NOT ONE..ABOUT ANYTHING AT ALL...I think that's very strange.
And not strictly correct.....
http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=4103.0 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=4103.0)
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And that's the only one that ever I have seen.
But don't be fooled, they read the website alright, I once asked a councillor why he did not contribute, he told me
it was considered to be private use of a council funded facility and inappropriate- how convenient!
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Why is it strange? What is the point in getting into long-running debates with people on this forum who are anonymous? It would just lead to criticism, diatribes and personal attacks from the usual suspects. All of the councillors have regular surgeries and advertise, publicly, their telephone numbers. Nothing "strange" about that. Of course, if anyone thinks they could do a better job...........
These are good points that you make and I think that I agree with most of what you say. However I wasn't really suggesting that they start blogging in earnest - just a bit of information now and again. This website I would have thought is an effective way of communicating with the community that they represent and they don't seem to use it. Lets face it they shove enough leaflets through our doors - which I don't read anymore bytheway.
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And that's the only one that ever I have seen.
But don't be fooled, they read the website alright, I once asked a councillor why he did not contribute, he told me
it was considered to be private use of a council funded facility and inappropriate- how convenient!
Is this website actually a Council funded facility - I don't think that it is - are you sure? I didn't know that - can you help out here admin?
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....BUT I CANNOT RECALL EVER SEEING ONE SINGLE POSTING FROM A COUNCILLOR - NOT ONE..ABOUT ANYTHING AT ALL...I think that's very strange.
And not strictly correct.....
Fair enough Belly - I said that I was prepared to be proved wrong and I have been - apologies to Councillor Kev - but is that the only one?
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Is this website actually a Council funded facility - I don't think that it is - are you sure? I didn't know that - can you help out here admin?
No, the web site is not funded by the council.
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Is this website actually a Council funded facility - I don't think that it is - are you sure? I didn't know that - can you help out here admin?
No, the web site is not funded by the council.
It was the councillors access to the internet that was funded-not the Marple forum!!
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I can understand why a councillor doesn't get involved here. Some people get personal, even on this thread we've had an opinion of a councillor based pretty much on the quality of headwear.
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I too can't understand why councillors - or any other public servants for that matter - should or would be particularly identified in relation to a web forum. One of the strengths of UK local politics is its accessibility through established public democracy: surgeries, offices, having councillors living in one's midst etc. Having lived in other parts of the world believe me, we have it good. I can understand that people who perhaps haven't experienced life elsewhere, or who are very passionate about an aspect of their locality, might not always appreciate that. So being curious, or affronted, that councillors haven't posted comments on a private forum which doesn't pretend to represent the entire community doesn't reflect the very good local government system that we enjoy in the UK. It might not feel like that all the time though....in which case, stand for office ;)
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I too can't understand why councillors - or any other public servants for that matter - should or would be particularly identified in relation to a web forum. One of the strengths of UK local politics is its accessibility through established public democracy: surgeries, offices, having councillors living in one's midst etc. Having lived in other parts of the world believe me, we have it good. I can understand that people who perhaps haven't experienced life elsewhere, or who are very passionate about an aspect of their locality, might not always appreciate that. So being curious, or affronted, that councillors haven't posted comments on a private forum which doesn't pretend to represent the entire community doesn't reflect the very good local government system that we enjoy in the UK. It might not feel like that all the time though....in which case, stand for office ;)
One's public views sometimes depends upon who's pocket one is in
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That's the same in every country I've ever lived in!!