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Archive => Archived Boards => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: Miss Marple on October 14, 2011, 11:22:23 AM

Title: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 14, 2011, 11:22:23 AM
MIA are concerned to hear that another group has  formed with a name not that much different from MIA.  The group  we are led to believe are leafleting and   arranging meetings advocating direct action against the college.  The group state that MIA are not active enough and are planning to raise the profile of the issue nationally by a series of activist activities directed at the college.
MIA are concerned that this group maybe mistaken by some people to be members of MIA, they are not. 
MIA  tried to warn the college about sub groups forming but they decided not to listen so this is now their problem and they will have to address this issue with increased security around the areas. 
If the group is reading this thread I would appeal to you to make contact with MIA so we can discuss where you feel our group is failing with it's approach.  MIA have always respected differing views and it is hoped that this newly formed group will respect our community, property, and children's education and be mindful of these points when arranging any active  action attempts on the college. 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 14, 2011, 12:05:26 PM
Blimey.. is this dissident faction called the REAL MIA?

Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Howard on October 14, 2011, 12:07:56 PM
Blimey.. is this dissident faction called the REAL MIA?

I'll give you 9/10 for that one, Tricky. LOL moment
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: sooty2 on October 14, 2011, 12:42:14 PM
Blimey.. is this dissident faction called the REAL MIA?
I hope you both don't think it is still funny if things turn nasty >:(
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 14, 2011, 12:57:25 PM
 Seriously?

 ::)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/zxrw2b.jpg)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Rachael on October 14, 2011, 01:11:56 PM
Blimey.. is this dissident faction called the REAL MIA?

I'll give you 9/10 for that one, Tricky. LOL moment

I give it 0/10  for very bad taste :(  and as a moderator Howard, Im very surprised at you !   :'(
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Howard on October 14, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
I give it 0/10  for very bad taste :(  and as a moderator Howard, Im very surprised at you !   :'(

I was applauding the wit, not the content and I posted as me, not as moderator. I'll leave it to Mark or Lisa to drop a bomb on me  ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Smithy166 on October 14, 2011, 02:57:53 PM
@tricky, you've got to love photoshop  :D Wait, That IS photoshopped, right?
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Rachael on October 14, 2011, 03:10:22 PM
So do we know when you are "Moderator" and when you are not  .... do you have a flashing light that says " I am moderator today "  ...... ??

Either way,  ask the people who got caught up in the REAL I.R.A  bombings on our own doorstep, see  if they share the same wit .

Its one thing offending people with personal insults on here , but this is something that goes beyond anything else :(

:( :(
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Howard on October 14, 2011, 03:14:56 PM
So do we know when you are "Moderator" and when you are not  .... do you have a flashing light that says " I am moderator today "  ...... ??

When I am being "me" I will have a line under my posts from now on that says:

[not posting as moderator]

As in my response to Dave (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3874.msg19150#msg19150) a few minutes ago. Just because I have been asked to help Mark moderate the board doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.

[not posting as moderator]
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 14, 2011, 03:20:40 PM
We know from all the posts like this one....
I can assure you that if you had been in the meetings which I have been to, spokened to people at the YPLA and numerous other relevant agencies, had  sight of the documentation I have been privy to......

....that Miss M likes all the 'cloak and dagger' stuff about secret deals, leaks, rumours and conspiracies, but this one is truly surreal!   And tricky's excellent joke is surely the only sensible response!  
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Lisa Oldham on October 14, 2011, 03:43:05 PM
erm...Im not going to moderate Howard... as he said we're all allowed our opinions.. we're only here to stop abuse and offence.. I dont consider trickys joke to be particularly offensive either.

I am about to put my point of view ..not as moderator!

Direct action are NOT swear words!! its not something to fear and as someone who has been very active in and advised on lawful Direct Action I think you are all over reacting. 

Obviously I dont support unlawful DA or DA that damages property of any kind, however its just a way of saying that you're going beyond discussion and frantic letter writing and making your protest more public more in your face more unmissable and quite frankly they wont be able to ignore it!

I can understand people wanting to take their arguments beyond a committee of people who I'm sure are doing a very good job but it doesn't suit everyone and its currently not seemingly getting anywhere.

Direct action can be and is a very effective way of making agencies who are currently paying lip service sit up and worry!  I'm all for it ..as long as its lawful.. as soon as it s not then the police will be involved and will put a stop to it and rightly so.

Its difficult to avoid clashes with names.. bearing in mind its Marple ..and its Action.. and i doubt very much any DA group would would to have a close association with MIA.

MIA doesn't have any particular right to talk for the majority of people who oppose this development, neither have they any particular right to suggest people doing it their own way is wrong.  I understand VERY well its a fine line but MIA do need to be careful they don't get too autocratic.. you are just a small bunch of individuals who have decided to fight a difficult campaign.. thats it!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 14, 2011, 03:47:18 PM
Where is the evidence of this shady group? If people are getting leaflets can't someone scan one?
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: sleepless on October 14, 2011, 04:07:32 PM
Have just had a leaflet posted through my door from "Marple in Direct Action" which says "Although Marple in Actin is doing a good job it is spearheaded by local business people who cannot bring themselves into disrepute by doing anything which might be "naughty" or disruptive.  Local ersidents need to talk about hard hitting and artistic ways to express our opinion about the planned sale of the college site to a supermarket.  Let's have some fun.  Meetings Friday 8pm Hatters  Sunday 8pm Otters".  It is signed by Angela Axion. 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 14, 2011, 04:10:45 PM
Have just had a leaflet posted through my door from "Marple in Direct Action" which says "Although Marple in Actin is doing a good job it is spearheaded by local business people who cannot bring themselves into disrepute by doing anything which might be "naughty" or disruptive.  Local ersidents need to talk about hard hitting and artistic ways to express our opinion about the planned sale of the college site to a supermarket.  Let's have some fun.  Meetings Friday 8pm Hatters  Sunday 8pm Otters".  It is signed by Angela Axion. 

Maybe they can compete in a graffiti contest with the 'Vote Tesco' campaign  :o
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: marpleexile on October 14, 2011, 04:20:52 PM
Splitters!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 14, 2011, 04:27:56 PM
Splitters!

Hahaha I wondered about posting that..  ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: admin on October 14, 2011, 04:29:56 PM
Where is the evidence of this shady group? If people are getting leaflets can't someone scan one?

Here it is for the unbelievers amongst you. The lady who was at the Area Committee meeting on Wednesday talked about things like hanging hundreds of milk cartons with messages written on them from the college railings - pretty harmless but an interesting way of getting attention.

As an expert Lisa, what sort of legal direct action could have an impact on the college governors between now and Monday when they meet to decide if they will proceed with the planning application? Not that I'd want to give anyone ideas!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 14, 2011, 04:30:10 PM
Splitters!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE)  ;D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 14, 2011, 04:34:40 PM
Where is the evidence of this shady group? If people are getting leaflets can't someone scan one?

Here it is for the unbelievers amongst you. The lady who was at the Area Committee meeting on Wednesday talked about things like hanging hundreds of milk cartons with messages written on them from the college railings - pretty harmless but an interesting way of getting attention.

As an expert Lisa, what sort of legal direct action could have an impact on the college governors between now and Monday when they meet to decide if they will proceed with the planning application. Not that I'd want to give anyone ideas!

An underground group who are holding meetings in a public house  ???
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belle Star on October 14, 2011, 05:37:38 PM
We know from all the posts like this one....
I can assure you that if you had been in the meetings which I have been to, spokened to people at the YPLA and numerous other relevant agencies, had  sight of the documentation I have been privy to......

....that Miss M likes all the 'cloak and dagger' stuff about secret deals, leaks, rumours and conspiracies, but this one is truly surreal!   And tricky's excellent joke is surely the only sensible response!  

Methinks an apology to certain MM could be in order Dave?  ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 14, 2011, 05:56:17 PM
Hi Lisa can I just make something clear as not to confuse people.  MIA is no longer a small group of people sat around my kitchen table.  The campaign has now grown and includes different sub groups, there is lots going on behind the scenes with each group concentrating on their area of particular practice be that legal, technical or whatever.  I could never in my wildest dreams have imagined how fast  MIA has grown in such a short space of time and the skill base we now have at hand.  Having said all that we are still looking for new people to join a group as we now know the battle has just begun, so if you think you have expertise in any particular area please contact MIA.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: heather on October 14, 2011, 07:15:10 PM
love the reply from marpleexile and tricky was tempted to put that its now action in marple  lol
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Howard on October 14, 2011, 07:50:52 PM
Splitters!

Apart from educating our children, giving them careers advice, preparing them for employment and helping them apply for university, what have the college ever done for us?

[not posting as moderator]
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: heather on October 14, 2011, 07:53:36 PM
loving the  coments
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 14, 2011, 07:55:39 PM
We know from all the posts like this one....
I can assure you that if you had been in the meetings which I have been to, spokened to people at the YPLA and numerous other relevant agencies, had  sight of the documentation I have been privy to......

....that Miss M likes all the 'cloak and dagger' stuff about secret deals, leaks, rumours and conspiracies, but this one is truly surreal!   And tricky's excellent joke is surely the only sensible response!  
Have you nothing better to do than continually try to put me down  I do hope not ! As I am enjoying your so far off the mark remarks and insults.  Bet you wouldn't say them to my face ? Oh is that why you didn't attend the meeting ?  Bet your in the Hatters as we speak , getting the heat from the street !  Lol omg lol  :D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 14, 2011, 08:26:32 PM
Splitters!

Apart from educating our children, giving them careers advice, preparing them for employment and helping them apply for university, what have the college ever done for us?

[not posting as moderator]

 ;D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 14, 2011, 08:48:30 PM
Splitters!

Apart from educating our children, giving them careers advice, preparing them for employment and helping them apply for university, what have the college ever done for us?

[not posting as moderator]
Stole our children's future educational land.   Seems a shame that 500 children are going to be put in such a small space at Rosehill with all the road pollution from Stockport Road when they could have had a sight the size of Hibbert Lane with a fantastic car park and open space.  This is more than 2p off a tin of beans its our children's education, our children deserve better than to be all crammed into such a small space.   If CAMSFC don't want the site they should give it back to education only a fool would allow and agree to  such an asset to be sold for a supermarket

 ;D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Cripes on October 14, 2011, 09:58:41 PM
Surely anyone can set up a group however they wish? MIA or whoever else cannot dictate.... freedom of speech an all that.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 14, 2011, 10:11:26 PM
Surely anyone can set up a group however they wish? MIA or whoever else cannot dictate.... freedom of speech an all that.

Where'e the Popular Front of Marple Action?

He's over there!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belle Star on October 14, 2011, 10:13:52 PM
Surely anyone can set up a group however they wish? MIA or whoever else cannot dictate.... freedom of speech an all that.

Where is anyone 'dictating' what a new group can or cannot do?  ???
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 14, 2011, 10:19:25 PM
Surely anyone can set up a group however they wish? MIA or whoever else cannot dictate.... freedom of speech an all that.
Yes of course they can all MIA want to point out is that whatever the group do is nothing to do with MIA.   I personally feel that this maybe what the college need because they obviously don't want to talk around the table so this maybe a wake up call for CAMSFC.  The more groups forming the better in my opinion if the college will speak to them.  Remember what happened in the Miners strike when all parties stopped talks .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Cripes on October 14, 2011, 10:23:02 PM
Surely anyone can set up a group however they wish? MIA or whoever else cannot dictate.... freedom of speech an all that.
Yes of course they can all MIA want to point out is that whatever the group do is nothing to do with MIA.   I personally feel that this maybe what the college need because they obviously don't want to talk around the table so this maybe a wake up call for CAMSFC.  The more groups forming the better in my opinion if the college will speak to them.  Remember what happened in the Miners strike when all parties stopped talks .

I thought they made it fairly clear that they set themselves up because they thought MIA weren't doing enough (in their eyes). Having said that, when they cause chaos, I'll be revoking anything I've said about freedom of speech....
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: tina on October 14, 2011, 10:23:42 PM
oh wow its all happening! Is there any messages in bottles around?
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: My login is Henrietta on October 14, 2011, 11:48:30 PM
Have just had a leaflet posted through my door from "Marple in Direct Action" which says "Although Marple in Actin is doing a good job it is spearheaded by local business people who cannot bring themselves into disrepute by doing anything which might be "naughty" or disruptive.  Local ersidents need to talk about hard hitting and artistic ways to express our opinion about the planned sale of the college site to a supermarket.  Let's have some fun.  Meetings Friday 8pm Hatters  Sunday 8pm Otters".  It is signed by Angela Axion.  
I shouldn't worry about this. Only one person turned up to her meeting at "The Hatters" tonight and that person had other motives for doing so. (Basically to ask who was funding the "organisation" and why, and to find out if the set up was genuinely supporting the "No" Campaign or if it was actually part of a "Yes" Campaign attempt to discredit MIA. It was not the latter.)

I have this on good authority - from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

However, I find it disquieting that "Angela Axion" has apparently been intimidated and threatened (in front of witnesses) by a member of the college staff staff while conducting a survey among students near the college but not immediately outside it.

Part of this post concerning frogs has been removed. Admin
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 14, 2011, 11:55:18 PM
The only significant aspect of this bizarre episode is that MIA are taking it seriously!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: tina on October 15, 2011, 12:02:46 AM
Have just had a leaflet posted through my door from "Marple in Direct Action" which says "Although Marple in Actin is doing a good job it is spearheaded by local business people who cannot bring themselves into disrepute by doing anything which might be "naughty" or disruptive.  Local ersidents need to talk about hard hitting and artistic ways to express our opinion about the planned sale of the college site to a supermarket.  Let's have some fun.  Meetings Friday 8pm Hatters  Sunday 8pm Otters".  It is signed by Angela Axion.  
I shouldn't worry about this. Only one person turned up to her meeting at "The Hatters" tonight and that person had other motives for doing so. (Basically to ask who was funding the "organisation" and why, and to find out if the set up was genuinely supporting the "No" Campaign or if it was actually part of a "Yes" Campaign attempt to discredit MIA. It was not the latter.)

I have this on good authority - from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

However, I find it disquieting that "Angela Axion" has apparently been intimidated and threatened (in front of witnesses) by a member of the college staff staff while conducting a survey among students near the college but not immediately outside it.

I can clarify it was nothing to do with the yes group!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: sooty2 on October 15, 2011, 12:12:30 AM
Post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: My login is Henrietta on October 15, 2011, 12:18:09 AM
Have just had a leaflet posted through my door from "Marple in Direct Action" which says "Although Marple in Actin is doing a good job it is spearheaded by local business people who cannot bring themselves into disrepute by doing anything which might be "naughty" or disruptive.  Local ersidents need to talk about hard hitting and artistic ways to express our opinion about the planned sale of the college site to a supermarket.  Let's have some fun.  Meetings Friday 8pm Hatters  Sunday 8pm Otters".  It is signed by Angela Axion.  
I shouldn't worry about this.  Only one person turned up to her meeting at "The Hatters" tonight and that person had other motives for doing so. (Basically to ask who was funding the "organisation" and why, and to find out if the set up was genuinely supporting the "No" Campaign or if it was actually part of a "Yes" Campaign attempt to discredit MIA. It was not the latter.)

I have this on good authority - from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

However, I find it disquieting that "Angela Axion" has apparently been intimidated and threatened (in front of witnesses) by a member of the college staff staff while conducting a survey among students near the college but not immediately outside it.

I can clarify it was nothing to do with the yes group!
Yes, Tina. My informant didn't really think it was but thought she should find out before it went any further.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 15, 2011, 01:03:11 AM
Post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: My login is Henrietta on October 15, 2011, 01:28:45 AM
Post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 15, 2011, 01:51:11 AM
Post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Lisa Oldham on October 15, 2011, 02:29:25 AM
In reply to mark.. it might be a bit late because its always difficult to get people out at short notice!
Off the top of my head at 2:30 in the morning.

Well.. a permanent picket.. but that would have been better starting last week!

A mass and continual crossing of the road.. can bring traffic to a stand still and cause a little grid lock   

student walk out to join a picket

anything that will grab the attention of people and causing a little bit of mayhem!

its late... thats it!!

Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 16, 2011, 01:43:38 PM
is that why you didn't attend the meeting ?  
No, I didn't attend last Wednesday's meeting because I was doing something else.  But even if I had been free I wouldn't have wasted my time, because the meeting, in your own words Miss M, was held in order to:
ask our elected members, SMBC planning officers  and hopefully Ms Cassidy questions about the  proposal to build a supermarket in the middle of a residential area. 
There was no point in asking those questions at the moment, because there will be no concrete answers until the planning application is submitted. And sure enough, it seems to have been a complete waste of everyone's time: 
The whole point of the meeting was for the planning department to inform you there has been no planning applications made and what the process was once it is. The meeting took nearly 2 hours in which to be honest could of been wrapped up in an hour! You all asked the same questions.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: sooty2 on October 16, 2011, 02:29:34 PM
Dave,The meeting at the college was supposed to include Ms Cassidy and the governors.They kept people waiting after the invite,then declined on the 10th Oct.The venue already booked,peoples work hours rescheduled and the councillors attendance would of been a complete waste of time if it was cancelled.Every body knows we can't get answers about the plans as they have not been submitted.Nothing has changed,so some of the questions that concern the public are still unanswered due to the colleges refusal to attend.Lots of people were informed of this by word of mouth and made their own decision as to attend or not.Looking at the large number of people at the meeting it was better that some people chose not to attend as they would not of got in. But you know all this Dave don't you?
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: marpleexile on October 16, 2011, 02:54:58 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: amazon on October 16, 2011, 03:02:37 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.
              so what hapens now when will we know if they sell the land .this could go on for years .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: NeilCorrie on October 16, 2011, 03:43:46 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.

I gather the college have plans concerning some £12m about to be spent on their Buxton Lane site in Marple.  Would have been civil for them to impart that information.

Instead, I think it's pretty fair to say this has been a public relations disaster for the college, so far.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belly on October 16, 2011, 03:54:46 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.
              so what hapens now when will we know if they sell the land .this could go on for years .
It certainly could. My guess is that all that has happened is that the Supermarket operator will have purchased the 'option' to buy the College land should planning be granted for retail. Until the planning is resolved one way or the other (and if goes to appeal that won't likely be for 18 months minimum) nothing  really will change. Under the option, I suspect the college will sit back and let the supermarket do all the running - as it won't be the Colleges planning application.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: marpleexile on October 16, 2011, 04:03:05 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.

I gather the college have plans concerning some £12m about to be spent on their Buxton Lane site in Marple.  Would have been civil for them to impart that information.

Instead, I think it's pretty fair to say this has been a public relations disaster for the college, so far.

Totally agree, PR nightmare, although this was never going to go down well with the residents of Marple, and there's little that they could have done which would have resulted in better PR, merely different bad PR.

You're right, it would be nice if they could tell us about their plans for Buxton Lane (although it's irrelevant to the point in hand, a supermarket on Hibbert Lane), but they probably don't have particularly firm plans about what the redevelopment will look like, because until the land is sold, they don't know how much money they'll be getting.

I'm not defending the College particularly, it's just that in this instance they are in a no win situation. They've been slated for not turning up, but had they turned up, their answers to almost all questions would have been either "we don't know" or "there's a confidentiality agreement which means we can't tell you", which would have led to them getting slated for turning up and wasting everyone's time.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: amazon on October 16, 2011, 04:22:02 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.

I gather the college have plans concerning some £12m about to be spent on their Buxton Lane site in Marple.  Would have been civil for them to impart that information.

Instead, I think it's pretty fair to say this has been a public relations disaster for the college, so far.

Totally agree, PR nightmare, although this was never going to go down well with the residents of Marple, and there's little that they could have done which would have resulted in better PR, merely different bad PR.

You're right, it would be nice if they could tell us about their plans for Buxton Lane (although it's irrelevant to the point in hand, a supermarket on Hibbert Lane), but they probably don't have particularly firm plans about what the redevelopment will look like, because until the land is sold, they don't know how much money they'll be getting.

I'm not defending the College particularly, it's just that in this instance they are in a no win situation. They've been slated for not turning up, but had they turned up, their answers to almost all questions would have been either "we don't know" or "there's a confidentiality agreement which means we can't tell you", which would have led to them getting slated for turning up and wasting everyone time.

            going to get boring this if it goes on for eighteen months even longer . [some of use will have poped us clogs by then ] a well back to the empty coop shelves tomorrow .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 16, 2011, 04:27:07 PM
Marplexile sums it up very well. Re belly's point about the college'sitting back and letting the supermarket do all the running' I'm not sure they'll be so relaxed. We can assume that any supermarket offer for the site will be conditional on them getting planning consent. The longer an appeals process drags on, the longer the college will have to twiddle its thumbs wondering how much money (if any) it's going to have to spend round the corner at Buxton Lane. 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 16, 2011, 06:35:01 PM
But had the College attended, and been prepared to fully answer questions to the best of their ability, what could we have found out? All the College is doing is selling the land, any future development on the land, and therefore any planning applications, are the responsibility of the new landowners. So what information could the College have given us? What questions could they have answered?

The way I see it, probably the only question they would be in a position to answer, would be who is the likely new owner. And even then, despite it being an open secret that Asda are the preferred bidders, they are probably bounded by a confidentiality agreement that means they wouldn't have been able to confirm it.
   They are not bound to secrecy regarding their future plans, assurances that 12million will cover relocating all the facilities such as the laboratories and the like down to Buxton Lane.  I have been informed that to move science labs is very expensive and Andrew Bispham at the meeting on Wed confirmed that, in a previous job he worked at ICI and was involved in that type of work.   It's oh so very convenient for CAMSFC to keep harping on about confidentiality, oh yes and if it hadn't have been for one of their employers we still wouldn't know what was happening !
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 16, 2011, 07:10:21 PM
Please tell us who told you how much it costs to move school science labs Miss Marple.

Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: NeilCorrie on October 16, 2011, 07:20:07 PM
Please tell us who told you how much it costs to move school science labs Miss Marple.
The gentleman on the panel at wednesday's extraordinary area committee, who had extensive experience refurbishing science labs answered this pretty succinctly.  When SMBC upload the video on their site shortly, you'll be able to view the exchange Tricky, if you didn't manage to make it on wednesday.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: chicken lady on October 16, 2011, 07:41:06 PM
Please tell us who told you how much it costs to move school science labs Miss Marple.
The gentleman on the panel at wednesday's extraordinary area committee, who had extensive experience refurbishing science labs answered this pretty succinctly.  When SMBC upload the video on their site shortly, you'll be able to view the exchange Tricky, if you didn't manage to make it on wednesday.

And let's bear in mind that those science labs haven't been refurbished properly for years. Moving them to Buxton Lane and refurbishing, will probably cost about the same as refurbishing at Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: NeilCorrie on October 16, 2011, 07:44:36 PM
Please tell us who told you how much it costs to move school science labs Miss Marple.
The gentleman on the panel at wednesday's extraordinary area committee, who had extensive experience refurbishing science labs answered this pretty succinctly.  When SMBC upload the video on their site shortly, you'll be able to view the exchange Tricky, if you didn't manage to make it on wednesday.

And let's bear in mind that those science labs haven't been refurbished properly for years. Moving them to Buxton Lane and refurbishing, will probably cost about the same as refurbishing at Hibbert Lane.

To quote Tricky, please tell us who told you how much it costs to move+refurbish compared to refurbish Chicken Lady.  ???
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belly on October 16, 2011, 07:51:56 PM
Please tell us who told you how much it costs to move school science labs Miss Marple.
The gentleman on the panel at wednesday's extraordinary area committee, who had extensive experience refurbishing science labs answered this pretty succinctly.  When SMBC upload the video on their site shortly, you'll be able to view the exchange Tricky, if you didn't manage to make it on wednesday.

And let's bear in mind that those science labs haven't been refurbished properly for years. Moving them to Buxton Lane and refurbishing, will probably cost about the same as refurbishing at Hibbert Lane.

To quote Tricky, please tell us who told you how much it costs to move+refurbish compared to refurbish Chicken Lady.  ???

But this time if we are going to quote Tricky i think we should underline the word school in "school science labs".

I wasn't aware that CAMSFC were on a par with ICI for their science facilities - as this is the inference from the reporting of the quote. Its almost like saying that the cost of a house driveway must be the same as a motorway, as they are both roads used by cars.

My old science lab at school was nothing more than a few desks with sinks in them and a lot of shelves with odd coloured chemicals in bottles on them. Hardly cutting edge.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 16, 2011, 07:54:46 PM
which was sort of the point I was making Belly


 :)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belly on October 16, 2011, 07:59:11 PM
which was sort of the point I was making Belly


 :)

I guessed so - but it had seemed to have passed others by.   ;D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 16, 2011, 08:10:10 PM
I think that we all could have a more constructed debate if people who contributed on this matter took time out to do their own research instead of gaining it via the forum.   I am concerned  that people who debate argue, and nit pick are the very people who do not attend meetings, preferring to sit back and gain information off this site and then twist and contort it to suit there views.   Forums are strange places because you don't really know who you are communicating with, but I am getting the feeling that some people are not local but are just joining in for the hell of it, because if you were local wouldn't you attend the meetings and gain information first hand   ???
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 16, 2011, 08:24:54 PM
I'll answer that, if it was aimed at me MM

I have lived in Marple for 42 of my 43 years. I live within 1/4 mile of the Hibbert Lane site and even closer to the Buxton Lane site.

I went to both as a youngster. So I trust this meets your criteria of being local and having the right to question?

I haven't attended any meetings yet. For lots of reasons.

I would expect that any news that may occur would be posted on a forum about Marple.
 

YOU personally have stated many times that you are privy to certain information BUT when asked to share you simply won't (or can't) provide it.. why is that?

PLEASE tell us who told you how much it would cost to move the school science labs?




Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 16, 2011, 08:55:32 PM
I can not put it on the web because of legal reasons or the person has not given consent Or like the emails that were posted on this site there were no disclaimers attached so CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed, Admin sought legal advice and had to remove them.   I have copy of a governors resignation letter but can not publish it, I have had a conversation with another governour who has since resigned as she felt the plans of the college distasteful and had warned the principal of the community reaction if it ever leaked out.  
Information as you can imagine comes to MIA via different sources mainly from inside the college, people contacting the Action Line, emails sent anonymously.  A prime example was when we were leafleting outside the college yesterday, a school teacher who was enrolling her son spoke to a member of MIA in great detail about science labs and how in her school they are relocating them and that the school was struggling due to the cost. I was not really involved in the conversation but I am sure if the MIA member involved reads this they will give you figures all I do know was it was a considerable amount of money, which Cllr Bispham had
explained on Wed.
What you must remember is that since June all MIA members have worked daily on this, gathering
information, speaking to YPLA, speaking to planners, solicitors, speaking to staff, teachers, unions you name them and we have spoken to them   We have a really dedicated team of members in MIA and hopefully if you live that near the college you maybe interested to know that the information about building higher came from a governor who had seen the plans.  I have no reason to lie to you, what would that gain? All I try to do is keep the community informed, some members of MIA I think would prefer me to stop posting on the forum because of the criticism I get, but I believe that the community have the right to know what I know, or have been told. SO please bear that in mind before people continually try to belittle me, because, hey   you may thank me one day   Well here's hoping  ;)
Title: Plans for Buxton Lane
Post by: mabel on October 16, 2011, 09:06:23 PM
Although the college isn't obliged to discuss its plans to sell Hibbert Lane (although it would seem to be a courtesy to the people of Marple to do so), surely they could reveal their plans for Buxton Lane.  I fail to see how they could locate all the resources currently at Hibbert to Buxton without a considerably larger building or cutting some courses.  After all we are talking about a gym, dance studio, theatre space, library, laboratories, canteen, numerous classrooms and offices.  Is Buxton Lane some sort of tardis??
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: My login is Henrietta on October 16, 2011, 09:44:14 PM
Post overwritten. Admin
Umm, why?
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belly on October 16, 2011, 09:48:23 PM
I haven't attended any meetings yet, beacuse as no planning application has been lodged, there is no live scheme for me to consider. I've only lived here for just over 10 years, so Tricky's opinions are worth 4 of mine!

Ultimately the only information that I really need to know at this stage is that SMBC have nailed their colours to the mast and that any application for major food retail on the College site will be refused, regardless of what is in the developer submissions - in which case, the initial planning application almost becomes irrellevant, as the whole thing is going to appeal.

At the resulting public inquiry, the case will be considered by an independent government inspector, who will judge the case solely on its planning merits. Having attended a number of Inquiries, I've no doubt that this will be potentially quite a close run thing, as I'm pretty sure I've a good idea on many of the arguments that the supermarket developers will run. Ultimately at the appeal it won't matter if there are 7 or 7,000 signatures against the scheme, as Inspector's take no notice of campaigns (however well run) but stick solely to planning facts. The Inquiry is where this battle will be won or lost, make no mistake about it. Everything that comes before it will be window dressing.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belly on October 16, 2011, 09:53:43 PM
Marplexile sums it up very well. Re belly's point about the college'sitting back and letting the supermarket do all the running' I'm not sure they'll be so relaxed. We can assume that any supermarket offer for the site will be conditional on them getting planning consent. The longer an appeals process drags on, the longer the college will have to twiddle its thumbs wondering how much money (if any) it's going to have to spend round the corner at Buxton Lane. 

Very true - I would anticipate that any option would be time limited, putting the onus then on the 'developer' to get a move on.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 17, 2011, 12:11:28 AM
Belly of course your views are important it doesn't matter how long you have lived in Marple.  This is although one of only a very few land deals by a supermarket that has been found out before it has gone into pre planning so we are now watching very carefully planners, elected members and the like.   As Micheal Taylor says in the Marple Leaf  No deals behind closed doors in this case, or words to that effect and I agree 100% because Marple will be watching and will remember !
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 17, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
I haven't attended any meetings yet, beacuse as no planning application has been lodged, there is no live scheme for me to consider. I've only lived here for just over 10 years, so Tricky's opinions are worth 4 of mine!

Ultimately the only information that I really need to know at this stage is that SMBC have nailed their colours to the mast and that any application for major food retail on the College site will be refused, regardless of what is in the developer submissions - in which case, the initial planning application almost becomes irrellevant, as the whole thing is going to appeal.

At the resulting public inquiry, the case will be considered by an independent government inspector, who will judge the case solely on its planning merits. Having attended a number of Inquiries, I've no doubt that this will be potentially quite a close run thing, as I'm pretty sure I've a good idea on many of the arguments that the supermarket developers will run. Ultimately at the appeal it won't matter if there are 7 or 7,000 signatures against the scheme, as Inspector's take no notice of campaigns (however well run) but stick solely to planning facts. The Inquiry is where this battle will be won or lost, make no mistake about it. Everything that comes before it will be window dressing.


Quite so.  This underlines the sheer pointlessness of the MIA campaign.  Who is this petition addressed to?

Is it:
1. The college? Pointless, because, as MIA itself acknowledges, the college is constitutionally obliged to sell to the highest bidder.

Is it:
2. The council? Pointless, because the council has already confirmed that it will reject an application for retail use on Hibbert Lane.

Is it:
3. The Planning Inspectorate? Pointless, for the reasons given above by belly.

Which confirms that all this fuss and commotion is, in the immortal words of the Bard of Avon, 'sound and fury, signifying nothing'.   ::)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 17, 2011, 09:42:07 AM
Yes Dave ! That's in the real world and one would hope that you are right ?  What concerns me is why CAMSFC are ploughing ahead regardless?   Have you read all CAMSFC Min's regarding this?  I have and if you read them you will see just why they have to continue with regard to the consultancy fees already spent and seeking an overdraft of a million.  If you are going to read them go right back to 2006 when the were planning to sell Hibbert lane BEFORE applying to the LSC for funding
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: marpudlian on October 17, 2011, 10:43:48 AM
This is all getting silly now. Direct action? Underground movements? Secret meetings in pubs?  :o

What I don't understand is why MIA is against a supermarket on the college site in particular - yet would be open to one in the "district centre" - There would be the same traffic, same number of customers, and half the college would probably close anyway.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Smithy166 on October 17, 2011, 01:07:04 PM
I'm speaking for myself when I say this, and No-one else.
I'd be quite happy to see a new supermarket in the shopping district, which, lets face it, is better suited to having shops than some ("out in the sticks" <- figuratively speaking) Place that has a road that would not be suitable to cope with the increased volume of traffic.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: JMC on October 17, 2011, 01:17:37 PM
What I don't understand is why MIA is against a supermarket on the college site in particular - yet would be open to one in the "district centre" - There would be the same traffic, same number of customers, and half the college would probably close anyway.

I strongly agree.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 17, 2011, 01:26:15 PM
I'm speaking for myself when I say this, and No-one else.
I'd be quite happy to see a new supermarket in the shopping district, which, lets face it, is better suited to having shops than some ("out in the sticks" <- figuratively speaking) Place that has a road that would not be suitable to cope with the increased volume of traffic.


But the trouble is Cpt, Chadwick Street could only offer a retail space which is smaller than the current Co-op store. Which is fine if say something like a M&S foodstore was interested in a shop on that land etc. But this isn't even remotely happening yet.. 

And in reality, out in the sticks is only about 150yds from the district centre, a district centre whose boundary has surely changed before.. when Hollins Mill then Aeroquip was knocked down and the Ridgedale Centre was built.?

(As a matter of interest. The CAMSFC boundary is roughly the same distance from Littlewood's as the length of Market Street)


Also, Articulated trucks have travelled along Hibbert Lane for years. I used to see them all the time at Goyt Mill. I don't remember them knocking down and rebuilding the baths each time..




 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belle Star on October 17, 2011, 01:28:40 PM
What I don't understand is why MIA is against a supermarket on the college site in particular - yet would be open to one in the "district centre" - There would be the same traffic, same number of customers, and half the college would probably close anyway.

I strongly agree.

This is part of a post on the thread 'A shop that does not open when I wish to shop might as well not be there'. It has been posted on numerous other threads and I am amazed people still do not 'get' the difference between a huge superstore outside the district centre and a reasonably sized store within it  ???

MIA believe that a reasonable sized supermarket within the retail zone will bring more shoppers into the heart of Marple and not draw them away, as a huge supermarket outside the retail zone would. A reasonable sized store would simply improve choice for local residents and not bring more shoppers from the surrounding areas so traffic would not increase on the scale that it would if there was a large, out of town type store.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: amazon on October 17, 2011, 01:52:57 PM
Please tell us who told you how much it costs to move school science labs Miss Marple.
The gentleman on the panel at wednesday's extraordinary area committee, who had extensive experience refurbishing science labs answered this pretty succinctly.  When SMBC upload the video on their site shortly, you'll be able to view the exchange Tricky, if you didn't manage to make it on wednesday.

And let's bear in mind that those science labs haven't been refurbished properly for years. Moving them to Buxton Lane and refurbishing, will probably cost about the same as refurbishing at Hibbert Lane.

To quote Tricky, please tell us who told you how much it costs to move+refurbish compared to refurbish Chicken Lady.  ???

  come on tell  use you seem to know .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: hollins on October 17, 2011, 02:05:44 PM
But the trouble is Cpt, Chadwick Street could only offer a retail space which is smaller than the current Co-op store. Which is fine if say something like a M&S foodstore was interested in a shop on that land etc. But this isn't even remotely happening yet.. 

And in reality, out in the sticks is only about 150yds from the district centre, a district centre whose boundary has surely changed before.. when Hollins Mill then Aeroquip was knocked down and the Ridgedale Centre was built.?

(As a matter of interest. The CAMSFC boundary is roughly the same distance from Littlewood's as the length of Market Street)


Also, Articulated trucks have travelled along Hibbert Lane for years. I used to see them all the time at Goyt Mill. I don't remember them knocking down and rebuilding the baths each time..  

Some brilliant posts (and common sense - otherwise in short supply in this topic) from tricky.

Most large lorries would find Hibbert Lane considerably easier to navigate than Hollins Lane used by the Co-op's lorries, and certainly than any potential development on Chadwick Street.

The "retail centre" seems to be the same size as it was 100 years ago when the population of Marple was a fraction what it is now. Stockport's planners are completely inconsistent (there are plenty of shops in Marple outside the district centre - the two squabbling stores in Rose Hill being a prime example) and the head-in-the-sand planning policy for retail has been an unmitigated disaster (witness the national top-table position for empty shops held by Stockport town centre itself).

Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 17, 2011, 02:37:00 PM
What I don't understand is why MIA is against a supermarket on the college site in particular - yet would be open to one in the "district centre" - There would be the same traffic, same number of customers, and half the college would probably close anyway.

I strongly agree.

This is part of a post on the thread 'A shop that does not open when I wish to shop might as well not be there'. It has been posted on numerous other threads and I am amazed people still do not 'get' the difference between a huge superstore outside the district centre and a reasonably sized store within it  ???

MIA believe that a reasonable sized supermarket within the retail zone will bring more shoppers into the heart of Marple and not draw them away, as a huge supermarket outside the retail zone would. A reasonable sized store would simply improve choice for local residents and not bring more shoppers from the surrounding areas so traffic would not increase on the scale that it would if there was a large, out of town type store.

A reasonably sized store is doublespeak for 'another convenience store' though isn't it? There is no room for anything else in the centre of the town.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: marpleexile on October 17, 2011, 04:19:59 PM
This is all getting silly now. Direct action? Underground movements? Secret meetings in pubs?  :o

What I don't understand is why MIA is against a supermarket on the college site in particular - yet would be open to one in the "district centre" - There would be the same traffic, same number of customers, and half the college would probably close anyway.

Yes, but you sound much more reasonable if you're merely objecting to the location of the supermarket, and not it's very existence.

I don't want a supermarket in Marple, mainly because I don't think it would fit the area, and frankly just don't like the idea of it. However, I'm a realist, and unfortunately I think we're onto a loosing battle, as I think that very few (if any) of the objections will hold water when it comes to the planning process.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 17, 2011, 06:26:56 PM
What concerns me is why CAMSFC are ploughing ahead regardless? 

Maybe they believe that cutting their running costs while modernising their facilities and improving them to the best possible standard for the benefit of their future students is the right thing to do?  ::)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 17, 2011, 07:27:53 PM
What concerns me is why CAMSFC are ploughing ahead regardless? 

Maybe they believe that cutting their running costs while modernising their facilities and improving them to the best possible standard for the benefit of their future students is the right thing to do?  ::)
I couldn't agree more.  The future of our young people seems a bit lost in all this bickering.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: jethroh65 on October 17, 2011, 08:45:45 PM
What concerns me is why CAMSFC are ploughing ahead regardless? 

Maybe they believe that cutting their running costs while modernising their facilities and improving them to the best possible standard for the benefit of their future students is the right thing to do?  ::)
Yes Dave they college want to do exactly what you say!!!!

But they want to do it ................
 
Without any thoughts about residents local to the vicinity of Hibbert Lane or Buxton Lane,
Without any thoughts to the effect on local businesses,
without any thought to the increase in traffic that will occur.

In addition any successful planning will set a precedent for any future applications in Marple.

Say Asda/Tesco for example get planning for Hibbert Lane, what is to stop Asda/Tesco applying for planning for the Peacefield site, or if All Saints decides to sell their land for a new Aldi etc.

And obviously this will get the usual " NIMBY" comments, but there was no campaign for a new supermarket
prior to this proposal, so there is no desperate need for a supermarket, it is just be a proposal for a extra large "convenience" store that certain people have now jumped and the bandwagon with.



Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 17, 2011, 10:06:40 PM
Jethroh, these are all valid issues, but it is not the job of college governors to deal with them. These are planning issues, and they are for the planning authorities to address. The governors' job is to do what is, in their view, in the best interests of the college. They do not exist in order to do the planners' job for them.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: jethroh65 on October 17, 2011, 11:04:26 PM
Jethroh, these are all valid issues, but it is not the job of college governors to deal with them. These are planning issues, and they are for the planning authorities to address. The governors' job is to do what is, in their view, in the best interests of the college. They do not exist in order to do the planners' job for them.
Yes but the college must have some consideration to what effect their actions are having on their "neighbours"and given how the college came to be on the site in the first place there must be some obligations on the college that they can not consider selling to a retail company.

Basically the college is trying to play catch up now with Aquinas & Stockport College who have modernised
their facilities by means of grants or other methods.
Now because CAMSFC as not been able obtain funds due to applying too late or because of the current financial climate, they are prepared to do whatever they can legally get away with to pay for the "improvements."








Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Lisa Oldham on October 18, 2011, 12:35:42 AM
in the end successful education is about good teachers not super spec hi tech facilities.  Granted these things are to a degree required to educate to current expectations of jobs,career choices etc.. however they already have those facilities.. ie computers, networks etc.   Its amazing whats happening in the world without

I'v just been to visit Aquinas with my son. We've decided to go to Poynton if possible instead.  The college didnt feel able to offer my son the maths courses he required.. and he would have had to waste a year doing nothing, where as Poynton felt their timetabling could easily cope.  Aquinas have amazing facilities, Poynton currently have 3 mobiles stood on top of each other!!  ( though they also are building a new 6th form block next year)

Note we're not applying for Marple. There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt, what the college intend to do with the Buxton lane site ..so many questions... .all we know is they intend to sell it to a supermarket... Where is the consideration for our childrens education there? I consider it too big a risk to send him there
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 18, 2011, 09:19:29 AM
There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt,

Things will probably happen in something like this order:

1.  The college will agree a sale to a supermarket, conditional on planning consent being granted.
2.  If planning consent is granted, the deal will be finalised.  The college will then, for the first time, know what it can afford to do at Buxton Lane.
3.  The college will now commission architects' plans for a new development at Buxton Lane, and (following pre-planning discussions with planning officers) it will apply for planning consent for that.
4.  If/when planning consent for Buxton Lane is secured, the new development on that site will be constructed.
5.  When that is finished, all activity from Hibbert Lane will be moved across to Buxton Lane, and Hibbert Lane will be handed over to its new owner.
6.  Asda/Tesco (or whoever it is) will then build at Hibbert lane, and a suitable celeb (Craig Cash? Andrew Stunnell? Miss Marple  ;)) will cut the ribbon and declare it open.

In short, nothing will happen at Hibbert Lane until the college has moved into its redeveloped premises at Buxton Lane. Assuming at least one of the planning applications goes to appeal, my guess is that it will be 2015 at the earliest before we see a supermarket on Hibbert lane.  So I think MIA should settle in for the long haul - this is a marathon, not a sprint! 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: sooty2 on October 18, 2011, 10:37:42 AM
Dave,Thanks for the above prospective running order as if we don't know >:(And yes MIA are in it for the long haul.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 18, 2011, 10:55:21 AM
You may know, Mrs O, but Lisa didn't, obviously. 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 18, 2011, 11:35:47 AM
I think it was very helpful of Dave to write it down. It does highlight the fact that this is a very long haul for MIA and they would be better conserving their energies and wait for the planning application - otherwise they are very likely to run out of steam (although I will wait for them to disagree ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 18, 2011, 11:41:30 AM
in the end successful education is about good teachers not super spec hi tech facilities.  Granted these things are to a degree required to educate to current expectations of jobs,career choices etc.. however they already have those facilities.. ie computers, networks etc.   Its amazing whats happening in the world without

I'v just been to visit Aquinas with my son. We've decided to go to Poynton if possible instead.  The college didnt feel able to offer my son the maths courses he required.. and he would have had to waste a year doing nothing, where as Poynton felt their timetabling could easily cope.  Aquinas have amazing facilities, Poynton currently have 3 mobiles stood on top of each other!!  ( though they also are building a new 6th form block next year)

Note we're not applying for Marple. There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt, what the college intend to do with the Buxton lane site ..so many questions... .all we know is they intend to sell it to a supermarket... Where is the consideration for our childrens education there? I consider it too big a risk to send him there

If Poynton are building a new 6th form block next year - won't that also be disruptive? 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: jethroh65 on October 18, 2011, 12:41:39 PM
There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt,

Things will probably happen in something like this order:

1.  The college will agree a sale to a supermarket, conditional on planning consent being granted.
2.  If planning consent is granted, the deal will be finalised.  The college will then, for the first time, know what it can afford to do at Buxton Lane.
3.  The college will now commission architects' plans for a new development at Buxton Lane, and (following pre-planning discussions with planning officers) it will apply for planning consent for that.
4.  If/when planning consent for Buxton Lane is secured, the new development on that site will be constructed.
5.  When that is finished, all activity from Hibbert Lane will be moved across to Buxton Lane, and Hibbert Lane will be handed over to its new owner.
6.  Asda/Tesco (or whoever it is) will then build at Hibbert lane, and a suitable celeb (Craig Cash? Andrew Stunnell? Miss Marple  ;)) will cut the ribbon and declare it open.

In short, nothing will happen at Hibbert Lane until the college has moved into its redeveloped premises at Buxton Lane. Assuming at least one of the planning applications goes to appeal, my guess is that it will be 2015 at the earliest before we see a supermarket on Hibbert lane.  So I think MIA should settle in for the long haul - this is a marathon, not a sprint! 
On points 1 & 2 how can the deal be finalised for Hibbert Lane without the details of the development being finalised for Buxton.
Surely the college would have to have the plans drawn up and planning consent tied up for Buxton Lane.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Belle Star on October 18, 2011, 01:10:00 PM
There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt,

Things will probably happen in something like this order:

1.  The college will agree a sale to a supermarket, conditional on planning consent being granted.
2.  If planning consent is granted, the deal will be finalised.  The college will then, for the first time, know what it can afford to do at Buxton Lane.
3.  The college will now commission architects' plans for a new development at Buxton Lane, and (following pre-planning discussions with planning officers) it will apply for planning consent for that.
4.  If/when planning consent for Buxton Lane is secured, the new development on that site will be constructed.
5.  When that is finished, all activity from Hibbert Lane will be moved across to Buxton Lane, and Hibbert Lane will be handed over to its new owner.
6.  Asda/Tesco (or whoever it is) will then build at Hibbert lane, and a suitable celeb (Craig Cash? Andrew Stunnell? Miss Marple  ;)) will cut the ribbon and declare it open.

In short, nothing will happen at Hibbert Lane until the college has moved into its redeveloped premises at Buxton Lane. Assuming at least one of the planning applications goes to appeal, my guess is that it will be 2015 at the earliest before we see a supermarket on Hibbert lane.  So I think MIA should settle in for the long haul - this is a marathon, not a sprint! 
On points 1 & 2 how can the deal be finalised for Hibbert Lane without the details of the development being finalised for Buxton.
Surely the college would have to have the plans drawn up and planning consent tied up for Buxton Lane.


You're right. Ms Cassidy told us in her one and only meeting with MIA a few months ago that the sale was conditional on planning permission for both sites. My guess is they have plans ready to submit re Buxton Lane utilising the 12m that they already know they will get as they had already decided, even back then, who they were selling to. She knew that she needed 12m 'to carry out their plans' for Buxton Lane so the plans must be well advanced.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 18, 2011, 01:19:17 PM
On points 1 & 2 how can the deal be finalised for Hibbert Lane without the details of the development being finalised for Buxton.
Surely the college would have to have the plans drawn up and planning consent tied up for Buxton Lane.

Yes, it's 'chicken and egg', of course, which is quite common in this sort of situation.  On the one hand the college won't want to spend six-figure sums on architects, consultant engineers etc doing detailed designs, before they know for certain that the Hibbert Lane deal is in the bag.  But on the other hand, if they sign away Hibbert Lane and then discover they can't build at Buxton Lane after all, then they really are in a mess.

The usual answer would be to enter into preliminary discussions with planning officers at a much earlier stage (indeed, we can safely assume that they have already taken place).  The planners would normally give general advice as to whether, in principle, building on Buxton Lane would be permitted, and what type/size of building might be approved.  Maybe they might get outline planning permission at this stage.  That would probably be enough to give the college reasonable comfort that they will be able to proceed.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: amazon on October 18, 2011, 02:45:15 PM
in the end successful education is about good teachers not super spec hi tech facilities.  Granted these things are to a degree required to educate to current expectations of jobs,career choices etc.. however they already have those facilities.. ie computers, networks etc.   Its amazing whats happening in the world without

I'v just been to visit Aquinas with my son. We've decided to go to Poynton if possible instead.  The college didnt feel able to offer my son the maths courses he required.. and he would have had to waste a year doing nothing, where as Poynton felt their timetabling could easily cope.  Aquinas have amazing facilities, Poynton currently have 3 mobiles stood on top of each other!!  ( though they also are building a new 6th form block next year)

Note we're not applying for Marple. There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt, what the college intend to do with the Buxton lane site ..so many questions... .all we know is they intend to sell it to a supermarket... Where is the consideration for our childrens education there? I consider it too big a risk to send him there

If Poynton are building a new 6th form block next year - won't that also be disruptive? 
   

        No You Work round people . Marple railway station is shortly to be inproved we have been told but it wont stop people using it .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 03:34:04 PM
MIA will always be here, there is a real need for the community to have a voice and MIA will continue to enable the community to have that voice on any controversial issue which effects our community   No more deals behind closed doors on any future plans for Marple
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: marplefan on October 18, 2011, 04:09:53 PM
The more the better!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 18, 2011, 04:48:45 PM
Oh no! You mean, not content with trying to sabotage an important educational development, MIA plans to oppose any other scheme which its self-appointed and unaccountable members deem to be 'controversial'. Spare us, please....
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 04:52:55 PM
Oh no! You mean, not content with trying to sabotage an important educational development, MIA plans to oppose any other scheme which its self-appointed and unaccountable members deem to be 'controversial'. Spare us, please....
. I knew I could count on your support Dave !  Cheers Mate !    :D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: sooty2 on October 18, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
Maybe Dave would like to be involved with MIA international.London,Paris,new york? ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Howard on October 18, 2011, 07:01:57 PM
MIA will always be here, there is a real need for the community to have a voice and MIA will continue to enable the community to have that voice on any controversial issue which effects our community   No more deals behind closed doors on any future plans for Marple

It would be a shame if all MIA did was to oppose "controversial" schemes. What would be nice is if the coming together of the community that has happened since the college issue became widely known actually grew into something that was good for Marple. Then MIA can been seen to be a positive influence rather than the negative NIMBY group that some people are trying to paint it as.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Tricky on October 18, 2011, 07:48:36 PM
NIMBYS? Never


 :o

..I didn't know and neither did members of my family who live directly opposite  the college ..



......what?  ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 18, 2011, 08:21:12 PM
in the end successful education is about good teachers not super spec hi tech facilities.  Granted these things are to a degree required to educate to current expectations of jobs,career choices etc.. however they already have those facilities.. ie computers, networks etc.   Its amazing whats happening in the world without

I'v just been to visit Aquinas with my son. We've decided to go to Poynton if possible instead.  The college didnt feel able to offer my son the maths courses he required.. and he would have had to waste a year doing nothing, where as Poynton felt their timetabling could easily cope.  Aquinas have amazing facilities, Poynton currently have 3 mobiles stood on top of each other!!  ( though they also are building a new 6th form block next year)

Note we're not applying for Marple. There has been no discussion at all about the potential upheaval of students over the next few years. Where they are going to put them whilst the college is being rebuilt, what the college intend to do with the Buxton lane site ..so many questions... .all we know is they intend to sell it to a supermarket... Where is the consideration for our childrens education there? I consider it too big a risk to send him there
You also have to consider future children's education in Marple.  Hopefully if the scheme goes ahead Marple will end up with a state of the art college which will offer our children everything they need in order to succeed at 16+.  If you have seen Aquinas you will know what I mean - that is what CAMSFC should be aiming for (in my opinion).  I have said before on this forum that I consider the education of our children to be more important than if a supermarket is built on the site and presently it seems that CAMSFC have no other option other than to sell Hibbert Lane to the highest bidder and good luck to them.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 08:27:53 PM
MIA will always be here, there is a real need for the community to have a voice and MIA will continue to enable the community to have that voice on any controversial issue which effects our community   No more deals behind closed doors on any future plans for Marple

It would be a shame if all MIA did was to oppose "controversial" schemes. What would be nice is if the coming together of the community that has happened since the college issue became widely known actually grew into something that was good for Marple. Then MIA can been seen to be a positive influence rather than the negative NIMBY group that some people are trying to paint it as.
MIA is an  organised community group and will continue to act in the best interests of the community   It is and will continue to be the voice of the people !    MIA is the community !
 community.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Lisa Oldham on October 18, 2011, 08:32:06 PM
The point I was making is I have seen Aquinas.... I was NOT impressed. to add more detail to my reasons this was because I was not impressed with either the way the teachers talked to the kids, or in fact the parents, and the deciding factor for not going to Aquinas was the fact they couldn't accommodate kids that have already done their AS levels.  The facilities I have to say were very pretty.. lovely lights on the pathways outside! All very nice and shiny and grown up! I was more impressed with the tatty old facilities at Poynton!

The over all point I was making is that hi tech does not necessarily add up to top notch!!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 18, 2011, 08:44:32 PM
Two of my children went to Aquinas and I (and much more importantly, they) were very happy there and did extremely well.    However my comment was not intended to be a discussion on the merits of Aquinas versus CAMSFC versus Poynton.  The main point I was making was that it is our future children's education we should consider and not just think short term which is why I am fully supportive of the bid to sell the site and improve Buxton Lane. (I also think Aquinas has more than just sparkly lights ;))
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 09:41:06 PM
Two of my children went to Aquinas and I (and much more importantly, they) were very happy there and did extremely well.    However my comment was not intended to be a discussion on the merits of Aquinas versus CAMSFC versus Poynton.  The main point I was making was that it is our future children's education we should consider and not just think short term which is why I am fully supportive of the bid to sell the site and improve Buxton Lane. (I also think Aquinas has more than just sparkly lights ;))
.  Well given you are armed with all the information regarding both the sites and have researched all the information, ie size of development , no loss of curriculum at Buxton Lane, assured and comfortable with possible increased noise, light and general pollution researched impact of traffic congestion and feel you investigated and are full informed of the safety of all children's safety with increased traffic  I fully understand your informed support of the development of Buxton Lane and the sale of Hibbert Lane and feel that you have a valid point .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 18, 2011, 09:45:50 PM
Thank you I'm glad you recognise that
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 09:52:55 PM
Thank you I'm glad you recognise that
I am a very understanding person  ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Marplemum on October 18, 2011, 09:54:48 PM
I couldn't agree more ;)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 18, 2011, 10:05:30 PM
An interesting exchange. It makes you think: if MIA get their way, and there is no improvement of post-16 educational provision in Marple, then no doubt more and more of us will send our kids to Aquinas, or Poynton, or wherever. So not only will many (most?) of us be shopping outside Marple, but we'll be educating our kids elsewhere as well. And all this in a town with a population of 23,000. Thanks, MIA... :-(
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: thebigshed on October 18, 2011, 11:01:10 PM
An interesting exchange. It makes you think: if MIA get their way, and there is no improvement of post-16 educational provision in Marple, then no doubt more and more of us will send our kids to Aquinas, or Poynton, or wherever. So not only will many (most?) of us be shopping outside Marple, but we'll be educating our kids elsewhere as well. And all this in a town with a population of 23,000. Thanks, MIA... :-(

Thanks Dave, This comment has done more to sway my opinion towards the yes camp than anything I have read so far. With one son at CAMSFC and the other probably going in two years I think it is extremely important to be able to deliver their education from within the community and not have to send them outside of Marple.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 11:06:29 PM
Very interesting information on SMBC web site  ::)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Dave on October 19, 2011, 07:17:08 AM
MIA is the community !

Is it just me, or is this a bit creepy?   :-\
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: chicken lady on October 19, 2011, 07:54:08 AM
I think so Dave, it's getting a bit like The League of Gentlemen!  8)
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Harry on October 19, 2011, 08:33:40 AM
We should all be thankful that MIA were not in existence when Samuel Oldknow arrived. I'm sure they would have tried to prevent him from building his mill, mines, houses for his workers and new roads. In fact, everything that helped Marple to prosper.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 19, 2011, 08:57:48 AM
We should all be thankful that MIA were not in existence when Samuel Oldknow arrived. I'm sure they would have tried to prevent him from building his mill, mines, houses for his workers and new roads. In fact, everything that helped Marple to prosper.

 Great post.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 09:04:37 AM
Well at least I give some of you something to read and entertain you that's my main aim and you all bite the bait  lol omg lol  ;D
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Lisa Oldham on October 19, 2011, 11:10:43 AM
hmmm.. my point was and remains.. just because you build a lovely new shiny building it does not necessarily improve the teaching, the reputation, the quality or the ethos of the college!

Aquinas built its excellent reputation when still in the old tatty cold buildings! This is the first year where I know several parents, and kids, have come out of the open evenings uncomfortable with what they've seen.

Again Poynton has a very good reputation even though its tatty old school!
Marple Hall does very well and produces excellent results.. again its one of if not the least hi tech and more old fashioned, less updated schools in Stockport!

I may well have sent my son to Marple dependant on previous results, however there is no clear plan by the college on 1. Timescale, 2. how they are going to rehouse the kids that would normally be in the Hibbert lane site , in particular the science subjects. I don't want his education disrupted in any way. Thats my short term decision for my son!

However, I have 3 more after him and when their time comes it will depend purely on results and reputation and how the teachers interact with my children and myself.  Any pretty buildings will make little difference to our decision!
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: jethroh65 on October 19, 2011, 12:45:29 PM
We should all be thankful that MIA were not in existence when Samuel Oldknow arrived. I'm sure they would have tried to prevent him from building his mill, mines, houses for his workers and new roads. In fact, everything that helped Marple to prosper.
How will a new Asda help Marple prosper ? The Asda/Walmart shareholders will prosper still further.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 01:13:22 PM
We should all be thankful that MIA were not in existence when Samuel Oldknow arrived. I'm sure they would have tried to prevent him from building his mill, mines, houses for his workers and new roads. In fact, everything that helped Marple to prosper.
How will a new Asda help Marple prosper ? The Asda/Walmart shareholders will prosper still further.
. My point exactly !
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: hollins on October 19, 2011, 02:29:33 PM
How will a new Asda help Marple prosper ? The Asda/Walmart shareholders will prosper still further.

Here are some suggestions:
- the College will gain the advantage/necessity of modern, well-designed, teaching- and energy-efficient buildings so that Marple's students will prosper from good educational facilities;
- there will be a lot of new jobs in Marple; many people will even be able to work closer to home;
- Marple's residents won't have to drive out of Marple to a sensibly-priced supermarket, saving time, money, petrol; due to its proximity, many more will walk to the supermarket, so getting more exercise.

Certainly Walmart is a giant American company. So are Microsoft and Apple - it doesn't seem to stop people buying their software, computers and electronic gadgets. General Motors is a giant American company - it doesn't stop people buying their cars. If you have a pension then you are (indirectly) a shareholder in many companies that MiA wouldn't approve of.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 03:11:08 PM
I am sure the person who gifted the land to the people of  for education  may have seen things a little differently. :-\ 
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: JMC on October 19, 2011, 03:42:57 PM
How will a new Asda help Marple prosper ? The Asda/Walmart shareholders will prosper still further.

Even if you are against the proposal it is easy to recognise there are some benefits ;to deny any it just seems like it isn't a reasoned argument but knee jerk;

cheaper shopping for those on a low income, jobs, less people going outside Marple for big shop, people coming into Marple to do shopping, less trucks from online deliveries (very common around here), possibly being able to buy cheap clothes and electricals, money for college,more competition for Co-op etc.
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: amazon on October 19, 2011, 04:24:53 PM
We should all be thankful that MIA were not in existence when Samuel Oldknow arrived. I'm sure they would have tried to prevent him from building his mill, mines, houses for his workers and new roads. In fact, everything that helped Marple to prosper.

         quite right ther Dave anything that hapens in Marple there allways seems to be objecktions to it SW DB PP .   
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: amazon on October 19, 2011, 04:31:39 PM
I am sure the person who gifted the land to the people of  for education  may have seen things a little differently. :-\ 

         Did he say no way can this land be sold for a supermarket .what year did this person gift this land .
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: jethroh65 on October 19, 2011, 07:17:40 PM
How will a new Asda help Marple prosper ? The Asda/Walmart shareholders will prosper still further.

Here are some suggestions:
- the College will gain the advantage/necessity of modern, well-designed, teaching- and energy-efficient buildings so that Marple's students will prosper from good educational facilities;
- there will be a lot of new jobs in Marple; many people will even be able to work closer to home;
- Marple's residents won't have to drive out of Marple to a sensibly-priced supermarket, saving time, money, petrol; due to its proximity, many more will walk to the supermarket, so getting more exercise.

Certainly Walmart is a giant American company. So are Microsoft and Apple - it doesn't seem to stop people buying their software, computers and electronic gadgets. General Motors is a giant American company - it doesn't stop people buying their cars. If you have a pension then you are (indirectly) a shareholder in many companies that MiA wouldn't approve of.
Hollins comments on your statements:-
What guarantee does a new building have ensuring Marple students prosper? The college will still have the same teaching staff & teaching methods.
Re:- Marple Residents driving out of Marple- Not everyone who shops outside Marple makes a special journey to get the weekly shop, I personally get mine on a the way home from work. Anybody who drives say 5 miles to do the weekly shop would save £2 if they chose to shop at a Asda.
Jobs created - How many jobs will be lost in the Existing shops and supermarkets?
If we want more Jobs in Marple why don't we Move Bredbury Industrial Estate to Brabyns Park then everybody who travels there from Marple would save at Least £10 a week in Petrol regain an hour a day of
Leisure time. This is admittedly a tad outrageous suggestion but a new supermarket is something that would be a convenience rather than a necessity along the same sought of lines of my idea about the moving an Industrial Estate to Brabyns Park.
Hibbert Lane is not the right place for a supermarket, it will effect that area of Marple unrecognisably in respect to traffic, noise etc throughot the day,evening and weekend. Nimby yes, but fact.

In a lot of  dictionaries the meaning of " Prosper " is stated as :- "To be successful".  

So what is success having relaxed peaceful area to live in with a old 6th form Colege or the New Supermarket, State of the Art ( possibly high rise ) and it's associated Traffic, Late night opening etc etc ?

PS : I have nothing against American companies, I work for one. I was just stating who would prosper  ;)                    
              
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 07:30:39 PM
I am sure the person who gifted the land to the people of  for education  may have seen things a little differently. :-\ 

         Did he say no way can this land be sold for a supermarket .what year did this person gift this land .
. I am not sure but I intend to ask the couple  :-*
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Steptoe and Son on October 19, 2011, 07:41:15 PM
Rigged petitions, being fearful of any change, the fear of the new...derogatory points of view masquerading as sound reason..I won't be surprised if the next one trotted out is that anyone who has concerns or objections to the proposed supermarket on Hibbert Lane still thinks the world is flat !
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 07:57:01 PM
Rigged petitions, being fearful of any change, the fear of the new...derogatory points of view masquerading as sound reason..I won't be surprised if the next one trotted out is that anyone who has concerns or objections to the proposed supermarket on Hibbert Lane still thinks the world is flat !
it is flat isn't it ! Who's been scare mongering again !
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: admin on October 19, 2011, 10:44:58 PM
A number of trivial off topic posts have been removed from this thread. Admin
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 19, 2011, 10:47:06 PM
It's a shame, there is surely room for a little humour in the middle of all this serious debate?
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: jethroh65 on October 19, 2011, 11:03:31 PM
It's a shame, there is surely room for a little humour in the middle of all this serious debate?
On this point I must agree entirely with the honourable member of the YES campaign :-*
Title: Re: Warning message from MIA
Post by: Henry_ on October 19, 2011, 11:05:06 PM
I've put a jokey thread on the Miscellaneous section instead, as I'm sure that's where Mark would prefer this kind of thing to be. This was inspired by my paranoia that you're not allowed to say anything bad about our honourable founding father, and that Marple is appearing to be more and like Springfield (of Simpsons fame) every day