Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Topic started by: Harry on March 18, 2002, 12:49:50 PM

Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on March 18, 2002, 12:49:50 PM
According to a notice fixed to a telegraph pole outside the Jolly Sailor, it is proposed to build 41 retirement flats on the site. I suppose that new flats will look better than a derelict pub but it is a shame that it wasn't re-opened as a family restaurant or something similar.

Did somebody once mention that the stepped horse mounting block (or whatever its called) was protected. I wonder if it will survive.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Peter on March 18, 2002, 05:13:54 PM
Just what Marple needs more retirement flats, presumably accompanied by 41 more cars to clog the roads!!!
Yes the horse mounting steps are listed and I think enough people have made the council aware of this fact to ensure that they are saved. I'm in full agreement with you about the pub though it would have been much better left as the same use but once the pub company realised that they could make a lot more money from redevelopment the Jolly never stood an earthly.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: alastair on March 18, 2002, 07:11:15 PM
It is about time a final decision was made re:jolly sailor

I cant believe Marple needs anymore of those things and as for more car's be careful retiree's and cars LOL

Anyway am sick of Marple being the retirement capital of Manchester its my home town bring back the life it used/NEVER had
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Howard on March 18, 2002, 08:29:25 PM
I CANNOT believe that we're having MORE retirement flats. We're becoming the Eastbourne of the north!

Can you imagine the elderly residents of these flats trying to cross the road between their flats and the chippy? There has to be a serious danger there unless some kind of trafic control is put in.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on March 18, 2002, 09:56:36 PM
now, if the churches had got their act together like I told them to, there could be an excellent youth drop in centre, non-alcoholic bar and cyber cafe
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: laser blue on March 21, 2002, 04:12:07 PM
Isnt it a shame that we are about to lose what is arguably the oldest pub in Marple, yet another piece of Marple`s history gone for ever.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on March 31, 2002, 08:18:52 PM
I agree that pub to flats is a detrimental move-retirement flats? with fast food outlets and offlicenses adjacent? sounds like a poor combination. Another pub would have been ideal for this part of town; I like the idea of a youth/drop in centre as a  valid alternative-its not an option i have heard discussed around town. As usual I suppose it comes down to profit and not community enhancement.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: alastair on March 31, 2002, 10:37:37 PM
It was a major option for the bowling green but not for jolly sailor we couldnt afford the property
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Henrietta on March 31, 2002, 11:17:54 PM
Am I being a bit dense? What about vehicular access? Surely they won't/shouldn't get PP on those grounds alone.

As a "side-saddle lady" (my Email address) I welcome the news that the mounting block is to be saved. There aren't enough of them around. But surely the historical point of it is that it is attached to the pub - placed there for the convenience of the patrons. Anyway as someone said elsewhere, the demolition men will doubtless smash it up "by accident" and then "apologise".

Sad that the Jolly Sailor is set to go the same way as the old forge. (On the corner of Cross Lane where the old "new" flats now are). Once it was too late to do anything about that there was a terrible to-do about loss of Marple's historical heritage. Likewise Marple Hall and other landmarks. :angry:
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on April 01, 2002, 10:41:24 AM
Henrietta is correct about the access and planning permission. In a council report dated February this year I noted that a previous application to build 13 mews houses was refused. One of the reasons was 'the proximity of the site access to the Stockport Road/Station Road junction was dangerous and harmful to highway safety'. I can only presume that the prospective developer is to argue that 41 retirement flats will produce less traffic than 13 mews houses.

Interestingly the other reason for refusal, according to this council report, was that 'Area Committee were concerned at the loss of car parking which would arise from the redevelopment of this site'. Surely this is not a public car park, it belongs to whoever owns the pub. I could have understood this argument if it had been brought up in reference to the Bowling Green application. That was a public car park. Looking through previous council reports, this was noted but was not considered an issue. I wonder why?

If anybody wants to look through council reports, covering such things as planning permission, they are available via  They make interesting reading, partly for what isn't there.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Denise on April 03, 2002, 09:49:34 AM
Hi Harry

Got totally lost on that website you gave for Stockport.  Where exactly are the planning reports?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on April 03, 2002, 10:51:37 PM
Hi Denise,

To see council reports:

 Â go to  
 Â from the dropdown list select 'Read Council Minutes & Reports'
 Â select 'Click here to log into the system' (you will not need a user id)
 Â select the 'Continue' button
 Â select a time period from those listed
 Â you can then enter search criteria (eg. Jolly Sailor)
 Â look through the search results

Watch out for spilling mistookes and incorrect names - for example I found that Dale Road, Bowden Lane and the Seven Sisters estate are to have 20 mph limits (its actually Seven Stiles).

Happy searching.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Norris on April 16, 2002, 10:46:19 AM
Non - alcoholic bar, Steve, isn't that a contradiction in terms?! and somewhat pointless?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on April 16, 2002, 04:42:26 PM
no, not at all
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: alastair on April 16, 2002, 06:53:52 PM
What a calm and collected response there Steve,

The aims of the NON alcoholic bar was to provide a venue for UNDER 18 yr old people to visit chill out and socialise with there mates and not either

1) TRY illegally to enter drinking establishments
2) Hang around on street corners harrassing old ladies
3) Come onto web sites and upset members of the web board community

OOOps sorry Norris I forgot your over 18 arent you so therefore none of the above really count for you do they.  I understand your viewpoint of a non alcoholic bar being worthless for you (maybe it shouldnt be try not drinking once in a while).  But to the under 18's it would be an absolute benifit and bonus for Marple.

But it aint happening at the minute so dont worry your little head about a bar being non alcoholic in your area!!!
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Jay on April 17, 2002, 12:26:40 PM
I think that a non-alcoholic bar would be great for kids in Marple. I mean where have they got to go to hang around with there friends round here? Yeah you could say the street corners but they only get up to mischief and end up getting in trouble. With a Youth drop in centre they could be supervised rather than roaming the streets looking for things to do. I think the council should fund it with a 6-month trial period from that great company The Pub Co AKA the Demolition Crew! :angry: That way we could have a safer place for the kids in Marple and also the Jolly Sailor building would survive to see another day! ???
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on April 17, 2002, 09:31:10 PM
Sounds like a great idea to me. The kids round here have absolutely nothing to do. The prospective councilors are going round the doorsteps at the moment. Lets all suggest it to them. They may even agree.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Norris on April 18, 2002, 11:31:41 AM
I hear that the Jolly has been torched, and is therefore more than likely to be demolished, So isn't the FANTASTIC Non-alcoholic bar idea out of the window, the coucil won't be willing to stump up the cash to re-build a new place now will they?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on April 18, 2002, 01:24:21 PM
what did u do it with?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Norris on April 18, 2002, 02:36:04 PM
Who are you talking to? If you are talking to me than nothing as i am not living in Marple at the moment!
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on May 03, 2002, 01:11:37 PM
Currently me and friend are investigating the possibility of an "all singing-all dancing" community centre in the jolly.  We really belive that if the people of Marple can collectively form a vision for the place then we can make it happen.  We have loads of ideas will share them as soon as we have time (currently completeing my final year at uni - stress!;).  As a community anything is possible if we work together and we can stop this development if we voice our concerns and take controll ourselves.  Spred the word.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on May 03, 2002, 01:39:17 PM
Another quick post - Our email address (below - last post) should have an underscore (_) between each word but for some reason the computer seems intent on drawing a full line under the word.  Get in touch for more info.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on May 05, 2002, 07:36:49 AM
Posted on behalf of Scott Lighten & the Group described below, these are handouts they have recently distributed around the Jolly Sailor area:

Your community needs you!
Do you wish you had a real opportunity to affect your area?
Do you have alternative ideas on how the council/local area should be run? Would you like to see a space in Marple where people can meet to exchange ideas support each other?  Dare we dream of our own space for creative projects, art, music, discussion and community groups?  Dare we dream of a community social centre, owned and run by the people of Marple themselves for the benefit of all?

We dare you to dream with us - Let us discover our vision together!

Do You Wish You Had an Opportunity to Effect Your area?
A Community Social Centre could:
·   Help provide a forum for communication of ideas and issues.
·   Foster awareness of important modern issues/problems.
·   Promote a sustainable future for our children’s children.
·   Provide a platform for personal and community empowerment.
·   Create a centre of focus for service to the community.
·   Provide a cultural venue for music, art and creative projects for people of all ages.


We need your ideas and enthusiasm!  Please contact us at A_FEW_OF_THE_MANY@HOTMAIL.COM and look out for more info soon!

We are a group who believe in compassion and cooperation are the best methods of tackling social issues.  We have been developing our ideas for a community centre to help alleviate problems such as youth crime.  We see the Jolly Sailor as an ideal venue for such a project.  Currently developers want to demolish the Jolly Sailor, one of the oldest buildings in Marple.  This is an impractical money making scheme which is in no way designed to benefit the people of Marple.  The building was sold to the current owners under the pretence that they would renovate the building and retain its social function.  But instead they have done their best to make the property appear run down to encourage you to back their demolition plans.
Please back our objection by writing to the Director of Environment & Economic Development, Hygarth House 103, Wellington Rd South, Stockport SK13TT.
These have to be in by this Friday so if you would like a representative to hand deliver your letter please phone or text 07752562441.
PS sorry for the short notice planning applications are never well publicised!
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on May 06, 2002, 10:54:30 AM
A Community Centre is a good idea, but has it been thought through properly.

Who would pay for the building? I did hear that when it was proposed to open an indian restaurant the rent being asked was in the region of £40,000 a year. This is not a trivial amount of money.

Is the building in a state where it could be used again?  It has been empty now for years. The side windows have been broken leaving it open to the elements.  People have been entering the building for whatever reason. The fire brigade has put out at least one fire in there.

Has anybody been in there and inspected the damage. How much would it cost to repair?

Just my initial thoughts. Sorry if they sound negative.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on May 07, 2002, 12:02:04 AM
You're absolutely right Harry.....there are some issues to do with the building that we need to check out.  Id be happy to work full time to investigate the possibility of us getting a community center, including looking into the feasibility of the Jolly Sailor site......however I am completely bogged down with my final year Uni work until the end of May!  I have other friends on the case....but we need all the help we can get!

I feel that as long as the building is still standing, there is still a chance we may be able to use it for a good cause.....for me its all about vision.....anything is possible as long as enough people set their hearts 'n' minds on it because they really want it to happen.

As for the practicalities, there are many funding opportunities available for some of the ideas we have in mind for the place......for example if we where to do youth work involving arts and music there are several European social fund grants available for such purposes and I could get help applying for them from a place I work in Manchester that does this very successfully - Contact Theatre.

A non-alcoholic bar and internet cafe would probably fund itself once it got going, plus the more volunteer help the better - it would be for a good cause.
We had the idea to use it as a center to promote Marple itself and its local businesses, skill share and promotion of local produce not to mention using it resource center for volunteer based groups in Marple (function room for meetings/internet etc).  Perhaps we could work together in such a way as to inspire the whole of Marple to get behind a fundraising exercise aimed at one day buying the building outright! (or a different building?)....The idea of the Jolly as a community center to me was to bring the community together to achieve great things in unity......the first thing we can do together would be to make this happen.

I don’t think I am being over optimistic to suggest that with collective vision and conviction, a project like this could go ahead in Marple, we are an affluent town and this is the sort initiative our taxes should be going to but do we know we can trust politicians to spend them properly.

Hope to prepare a document soon with all our ideas....but we need yours too (ALL OF YOU!;)....what’s the next step? - Let everyone know about this and we'll get a group together.

Get in touch please!.....Jolly or not Marple needs to get together on this....
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Norris on May 09, 2002, 11:31:00 AM
Good skills Scott.

Seems that you have some great ideas and a lot of drive and enthusiasm, lets hope that you can use this to get people to support the cause.

I would be willing to help the cause but, unfortunatley, do not live in Marple anymore, however if you need any internet searching doing or anything that could be done from a distance and is not to time consuming, as i myself am trying to complete a PhD at the moment, i would be willing to help out.

Let hope more people are willing to join in the campaign! Not much response so far (i hope that they aren't just all mouth and no action!;).
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Denise on May 09, 2002, 01:08:29 PM
I've written to the council with my objections to the proposal to demolish the building and asked that they look at the other proposals being put forward.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on May 09, 2002, 02:30:07 PM
Thanks to both Denice and Norris for your still too bogged down with uni work to air any of our proposals for the Jolly site, but watch this space!

We are currently getting together a list of names of people who are interested in finding out more the possibility of the creation of community centre of some discription and maybe even helping out.  To achive this ambitious goal we'll need to work to gether as a community and share our skills.
.....please feel free to email us at.....
(underscores between each word) or
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on May 09, 2002, 08:33:46 PM
Here's an interesting document available on the SMBC web site. The Jolly is actually mentioned on page 17 in the gaps and improvements section under "Challenge 1 - Putting People First"

Follow the link below to take a look, but you'll need adobe acrobat reader installed on your PC.

Marple Community Strategy
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on May 19, 2002, 02:12:23 PM
Well done everyone....I've heard the jolly has been saved.  For now!   You'll hear more from me in little over a week when I finally regain my freedom from the oppression of a chemistry degree!
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on May 21, 2002, 11:52:42 PM
Does anyone have time to research and write an article about the history of the Jolly Sailor? It could be posted here or perhaps the lady with the Irish christian name (I forget which) could get it into her newspaper. All grist to the mill.

(Sorry I haven't time myself. I work 6 days a week, edit a newsletter, and look after a horse and an elderly mother. And that's just in a light week!;)
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on May 22, 2002, 09:03:05 PM
Unfortunate news....the jolly has suffered from two fires.  Both on different days supposedly.  Sounds familer huh?  No doubt this will play into the hands of who ever wishes to develop the site.  

The most recent planning application (refused on grounds of insufficient access) was made by McCarthy & Stone (devs) limited.  In this application the owners are listed as "Unique Pub Properties".

I do not know much about Unique Pub Properties, but i have heard that they are a part of japanese owned conglomerate who supposedly like to sell of unproductive assets to developers.  oh well....guess thats business for you.

Who knows, McCarthy and stone could be owned by the same people, long shot i guess....but you never know with these things.

The thing that bothers me are the rumours that "Kids" (maybe they mean young adults?), were somehow "given incentive" to start a fire both there and the Bowling Green......guess we'll never really know.

Updates are in manchester studing and have not been unable to see the extent of the damage myself.

Feel free to look into "Unique Pub Properites" only thing i could find on the internet is a court case they where involved in....
wouldnt mind knowing bout mccarth and stone too...
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on May 23, 2002, 09:09:46 AM
For what its worth.

The Unique Pub Company, which own approximately 970 managed pubs in the UK, is owned by Angel Street Holdings, who in turn are owned by Nomura International, a Japanese bank. The EU has just (8th May) approved the acquisition of Angel Street Holdings by Cinven Group Limited, a venture capital business.

Note:  Angel Street Holdings also controls The Voyager Pub Group, who own some 3250 leased pubs located in the UK.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on June 12, 2002, 03:13:52 PM
My apologys for not posting this infomation sooner.

 - Mccarthy and Stone are appealing against the decision of stockport council, they have opted for a public enquiry.  The date for objections to be submitted is 25th of June.  I dont have the address with me now....will post soon

- Me and a friend have posted 200 leaflets around the jolly area about froming a group to put together a strong objectors case and investigate the idea of the Jolly (or some such other site - any ideas?) as a community space of some discription.  We are holding an informal meeting at 7pm wednesday 12th (today!;)

Sorry again bout the lack of notice
youll hear from me soon
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on June 12, 2002, 03:31:03 PM the way, thought people might be interested to know that the Jolly is not too badly damaged from the two fires...could be worse anyway!

We where told by a Marple fireman that the building is still structurally sound....stairs, floors ect...
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on June 18, 2002, 04:14:41 PM
Hi all, Sorry for not telling u that the last meeting was taking place in the Jolly sailor carpark!  I shall be more carfull next time - was not ment to be a secret!

About 45 people truned up, which was a great responce considering we could only post 200 flyers to people living near the site.

It seems that almost everyone would love to see the Jolly put to good use as either a community centre or a heritage centre - both are great ideas.

what was clear though is that the residents of Marple do not want to see the Jolly left as it is, the carpark is a mess, there are piles of junk outside and the grills over the windows look unsightly.

For these reason we would like to propose a community clear up project 4 the area, i have at least 3 or 4 volunteers and prberbly alot more then that.  We can remove the rubbish and perhaps even paint the unsightly brown grills over the windows.  Somthing artfull would be nice but even if they where the same colour as the building im sure it would look better....what does everyone think?

25th of june is the final day for objections to the proposed development (41 shelterd flats for the elderly).

My objections are as follows :-

Only 11 parking spaces are planned as part of the development (leaving that part of Marple with no parking except on the streets - bad for the shops there).

No provision for low cost housing (younger residents of marple are forced out of Marple due to house prices)

Unbalences population of Marple (not healthy for a community - im not saying we have too many people form the older generations but we do need balence)

Historical building - The oldest in that part of marple (trying to get it listed - but will be difficult - can u help?)

The site of the jolly could be the only land available in marple for generations - the communitys needs should be served - not those of money making developers!

Access to site is insufficient (reason why permission was refused the first time - they are appealing and trying to buy the bungalow cottage on station rd)

will bring more traffic into marple - do we need anymore?
Tell everyone!
send you objections to -

The Planning Inspectorate, 3/26 Hawk Wing, Temple Quay House, 2 Square Temple Quay, Bristol, BS1 6NP. Quote reference - APP/C4235/A/02/1089957 by 25th of june.

we are currently looking for a place to hold a meeting of people interesting in saving the Jolly and generally getting more involved in the community and its wellbeing.  Any ideas for a venue?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Denise on June 19, 2002, 11:47:25 AM
Do I need to send my objections again to the Bristol address or will my original object be passed on?  Can anyone tell me.  I am quite willing to object again if necessary.  I like that little bungalow at the side of the car park - another building with character - looks like it has a history - always been curious about it.  Suppose they would want to knock that down as well.  Why do they never want to knock ugly, characterless buildings down?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: AlisonJ on June 19, 2002, 03:38:35 PM
Some people may be interested to know that there is some information on the history of the Jolly Sailor and the bungalow next to it in Marple library (upstairs, look for a small book on the history of Marple's pubs).  I seem to remember (from browsing through the book - not from first hand memory - I'm not that old) that the car park area was a bowling green or possibly a skating rink or something similar and the bungalow was built as part of that development.  Anyway its all in the library book if anyone gets a chance to search it out.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on June 19, 2002, 05:32:17 PM
I think AlisonJ is referring to Jack Turnbull's excellent history of local pubs, 'Last Orders Please'.

That book tells us that there was a bowling green where the car park is, from about 1870. Next to the green was built a Billiard Pavilion in 1877 under the instruction of Martha Shirley, owner of the Jolly Sailor and the lady after whom Shirley Avenue is named.

In 1910 the pavilion was granted a Singing & Dancing license and for a number of years was used for dancing, as a Scout Hut and for roller skating.

The building was converted into a house in 1972.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on June 19, 2002, 05:42:03 PM
In reply to Denise's query, I would say that the only way to be sure your objections get to the right place is to send them to the address identified by Scott.

Don't forget to quote the reference and Scott's handout also says to send 3 copies, although he hasn't mentioned it below.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Denise on June 20, 2002, 09:36:16 AM
I re-read the letter I got from the planning department in Stockport and apparently my objections already voiced in the letter have been passed on to Bristol so unless I have further points to make then I don't need to do anything else.  Interesting about the bungalow.  I somehow knew that it wasn't your common or garden bungalow.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on June 20, 2002, 02:22:08 PM
Yes thats right...Three copies.  Sorry, another important detail omitted there!

What do people think about the clean up idea?  Its not going to be till november that this gets decided and its in their advantage for it to look bad for when the planning inspector takes his site visit
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on August 09, 2002, 01:54:28 AM
I heard in the Stockport Times (pg 10) that £350k is going to be spent on Marple tourism (thanks to British Waterways). Stunell said he hopes a tourism office can also be built.
What do we do with the Jolly? Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on August 14, 2002, 05:49:45 PM
I've just heard that:

There is a NEW planning letter outside the jolly sailor regarding proposed development of retirement flats
REF 008567
Write to object to:
Director of Environmental & Economic development services
Hygarth House
103 Wellington Road South

Why this is when there is an appeal to be heard into the previous refusal on 5 November I don't understand.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on August 15, 2002, 08:30:14 AM
That seems a bit quick off the mark Mark.  ;)

Before we write to object to this new proposal, just what is it proposing? The original proposal was for 41 flats, and that was rejected, pending an appeal, mainly due to traffic considerations. Quite rightly so in my opinion. If the new proposal was for far fewer retirement flats then it will not generate the traffic entering and leaving the site and therefore may not fail for that reason (although I'm sure they can think of another, like loss of public parking).

I for one will not object to retirement flats just because they are retirement flats. I know we already have quite a few, but the population, in general, not just in Marple, is getting older. My father, in his eighties, now lives in a retirement flat and he is far better there than in a big victorian house that he couldn't care for. That house is now home for a family. So think of retirement flats as freeing up housing for younger people, and maybe home for us one day.

As an aside, I heard recently that people had been looking round the Jolly because they have been asked to quote for cleaning it up. Make of that what you will.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on August 15, 2002, 01:21:13 PM
Im glad someone noticed the new planning application.  A friend of mine will be cheaking the plans today as they should be in the library.

We are organising a meeting for next week to get together with people interested in disussing ideas for the Jolly sailor (and Almonds hotal too probably! ) and local issues.  
We will be inviting all the people who came to our last (and first! ) meeting and other community interested people we've spoken over the last couple of months.

An open invitation will be posted in the forum once we have confirmed the exact date - either wed/thus next week.  We would of given you all more notice but since there is a new planning application we feel we should meet and discuss the the issues ASAP.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on August 20, 2002, 02:29:46 PM
As previously mentioned we are  holding a community meeting for people who are interested in the plight of bulings such as the Jolly Sailor and Almonds hotel and we will also be discussing more general community issues and idea.

I can confirm that the meeting will take place on Thursday 22nd August at Marple Methodist church, Church lane

Please bring your ideas and aspirations for our community - see you there!
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on August 20, 2002, 09:05:13 PM
Duplicate applications even with appeals/Public Inquiries outstanding is a common developer tactic.  Its basically trying to bully the council into accepting the next application therefore not incurring the large cost of the appeal.  It works a lot of the time as well
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on August 20, 2002, 10:07:24 PM
Scott, can you tell us what the new plans are for? Oh, and what time is the meeting?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 22, 2002, 01:19:42 PM
I was told it was 7oclock
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on August 24, 2002, 12:43:46 AM
Sorry everyone, again ommiting important infomation!
Meeting went really well.  We are going to try and send infomation to every house in marple which will include the  following....

New proposal - 39 flats, basicly same as before but with 13 + 6 parking spaces (6 extra for businesses at 3+5 Stockport rd)
Send your objections to  - Director of Environment and Economic Development, Environment and Economic/Development services, Hygarth House, 103 Wellington Road South, Stockport SK1 3TT

Marple Area Planning Committee Decision date - provisionally 18th Sept - may be put back till 16th of Oct.  To find out when and where exactly this meeting will be held you can ring Mark Robinson @ Marple area planning office on 474 3657.  It is vital that people who care turn up to this meeting to back our objections up.  If there is no-one there to support us they may wel just pass it .... remeber the Bowling Green, Treetops - (knocked down this week)!!

Public meeting - to discuss what to do next - Tuesday 3rd sept (provisional) 7:30pm, Marple Methodist Church Hall, Church lane.

Site Clean up - First of hopefully many community events is a voluntary clean up of the jolly salior site.  Saturday 7th of September at 10am - Please bring rubber/garnening gloves

We have enough paper for aprox 2000 homes to recive a double sided sheet of A5 with the about details and background to the campain- Donations of more paper are most welcome!  (we start printing on sat 24th!;) Also volenteers who would like to help posting in your area.  Please contact the campain email address -  
Hopefully the full text of the leaflet will be available online soon - can anyone help with this?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: alastair on August 24, 2002, 08:52:42 AM
emm let me think yeah can help with the hosting of the information will check with Steve but am sure we can provide some form of hosting for such a worthy case!!


Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on August 24, 2002, 11:13:12 AM
Probably the best option is to produce your leaflet in something like Word and then convert it to adobe acrobat format for viewing on-line. This way it looks exactly the way you want it to.

If you do the leaflet and send it by e-mail, we can do the rest for you here and provide some visible links from the home page to drawn attention to it. Send to: mark(at)marple-uk(dot)com
We could then ask visitors to download, print and distribute a few in their own areas. Every little should help!
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 31, 2002, 11:57:33 AM
FYI Ive sent the leaflet to Mark today.  Apologies for delay.. Ive been on holiday
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on September 02, 2002, 07:08:17 PM
The leaflet can now be viewed by CLICKING HERE

You will then have to rotate it by clicking on the rotate button that looks like this

You can also access the leaflet from the Home Page on the main site and from the pubguide's Jolly Sailor page.

Please note that the deadline for objections to the new planning application has been extended to 17th September, so show the leaflet to as many folks as you can and ask them to make the effort to object if they'd like to save the Jolly.

Hope this will help the campaign a little.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on September 03, 2002, 05:15:47 PM
Excellent work....:D

Booking has been confimed for main hall of Marple methodist chuch at 7:30 on thursday 5th Sept.  Ill be there from 7 to put out chairs and chat - see you there!

Im off out to put posters up!  ;)

Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Peter on September 04, 2002, 11:21:08 PM
I'm sorry I can't be there as I'm working but I will certainly be there in spirit.

Good luck
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on September 05, 2002, 10:12:47 PM
sorry, bit behind ;)

Hope the meeting went well, though!

Be happy to donate webspace/mail accounts to use for the campaign if there's any need for them (either directly or by upping Mark's limits! ) or to supply 0870 numbers with answering/messaging services on in any configuration if helpful (see for details)

Look forward to hearing about it
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Lisa Oldham on September 19, 2002, 06:53:49 PM
The area committee rejected the new application last night.
WEve been awarded rule 6 status in the planning appeal from the last app so we now have to put up a full case together in the next 2 weeks...
Is there anyone out there with any relevant experience who might be able to help?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: admin on September 19, 2002, 07:33:10 PM
What does being awarded rule 6 status mean?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Water Rat on September 19, 2002, 10:35:22 PM
It comes just before rule 7 - go and have another beer!  You will need it.

Seriously though the Town and Country Planning Act was amended in 2000 with a new set of rules - organised through John Prescott's office.

These state ... and I potentially bore you ..

Rule 6 - Hearing Statements, and Other Comments
8. Under Rule 6:

(i) within 6 weeks of the starting date, the appellant and the local planning authority shall ensure that two copies of their written hearing statement have been received by the Secretary of State, and one copy has been received by any statutory party (Note: As defined by Rule 2 of the Rules). The hearing statement differs from the statement of case for inquiries in that it contains full particulars of the case that the appellant and the local planning authority wish to make at the hearing, including copies of any documents to which they wish to refer;

(ii) within such period as the Secretary of State may reasonably require, the appellant and the local planning authority must ensure that the Secretary of State has received two copies in writing of further information about the matters contained in their hearing statement as he may specify; this further material should also be copied to any statutory party;

(iii) within 6 weeks of the starting date, any statutory party and any third party who was notified at the application stage shall ensure that three copies of any comments they wish to make to the Secretary of State have been received by the Secretary of State;

(iv) within 9 weeks of the starting date, the appellant and the local planning authority must ensure that two copies of any comments either party wishes to make on: the other's hearing statement, the comments made by any statutory party or third party who was notified at the application stage, or comments made by any other party, are received by the Secretary of State. At the same time one copy of these documents should be sent to any statutory parties. The Secretary of State shall send a copy of the hearing statement and further information received from the appellant or the local planning authority to the other of those two parties, and shall send written comments made by third parties to the local planning authority and the appellant. The local planning authority shall make available for inspection copies of the pre-hearing statements and other associated documents on request and shall specify in their hearing statement where and when the documents may be inspected; and

(v) as soon as practicable after receipt, the Secretary of State shall send to the Inspector, any hearing statement, document, part of any document or written comments received by him within the relevant period specified for receipt. In the case of a non-transferred appeal, the Secretary of State, and in the case of a transferred appeal, the Inspector, may in determining the appeal disregard any comments which are received after the relevant period specified for receipt.


What more can I say.  Hope that this helps.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on September 20, 2002, 08:25:10 PM
Please could somebody explain to me why people are so upset about the proposed demolition of a complete eyesore when very few can bothered to do anything about the real problems in Marple?

Marple has been in a state of serious decline for many years, just look at the boarded up shops, litter and mess everywhere, the lack of anything even slightly cultural and the gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences.

The traffic in and out of Marple is a nightmare and the local councillor (who refused to do anything about the new lights in offerton other than to blame the local MP) has turned out to be a complete pervert who was only interested in teenage boys himself!

Come on, if you're going to get angry about anything, choose one of the above topics.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: alastair on September 21, 2002, 01:12:57 AM
Try reading the latest addition of The Community News Marple, it has a great article by Peter about the lack and loss of great sites of interest in Marple.  An a Lead article about the debate over the Jolly Sailor.

My Question to you Ellie is this if we dont save the Jolly, one of the oldest pubs in the local area how do we start changing are own community.

If you guys need any help at all with anything technical like websites email or phone lines etc then let us at Hosting4U know we will help with anything (we are local to help local people)

Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Peter on September 21, 2002, 11:31:07 AM
At the risk of paraphrasing a song Ellie, what have YOU done today to try to reverse the decline, (apart from talking that is)?
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on September 21, 2002, 06:05:27 PM
I'm sure that like me, she paid her council tax. I agree with every word she has said. Marple residents need to wake up to the fact that Marple is in a terrible state. I have written to the council on numerous occasions but have received no action and seen no improvement.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Howard on September 21, 2002, 09:59:55 PM
>boarded up shops
Far fewer than a few years ago - look at the top end of Market Street with well attended coffee shops and cafes. A very welcome addition to the local businesses

>litter and mess everywhere
Show me a town centre in the UK that doesn't have litter and mess. This is a national problem not a local one. If you look at towns in Germany, Sweden etc which people traditionally think of as "clean" then look at the sky-high rates/local taxes they pay then you'll know why. If you want to keep your taxes low, which seems to be the main consideration for most British people, then live with it. Writing to a council starved of funds by central government when that council has areas with much bigger problems than Marple (Brinnnington etc) won't get you anywhere.

>the lack of anything even slightly cultural
One of the only still viable local cinemas not put out of business by the multi-plexes (The Regent). A thriving local amateur theatre (The Carver), one of the best brass bands in the country which regularly plays in local venues (the Methodist Church, the Conservative Club). A fanstic local Carnival. How many of these do you use or attend?

>and the gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences.
CCTV is used in Marple and has actually done a good deal to keep trouble away from the centre of Marple. Perhaps if the Jolly were turned into some sort of youth/community centre that could be monitored and controlled then this fear of crime would disappear.

The traffic in and out of Marple is a nightmare
It certainly is - and one of the reasons why it is is that people want to live here. It's a nice place to live - more people=more traffic. We need to compaing for better public transport from the railways and look at other ways of working. Have you signed the broadband petition so we can hit the trigger point to get the local BT exchange ADSL enabled? My working life has been transformed by having broadband installed - I only need to leave Marple during the day if I'm seeing a customer, other than that I can work from home.

and the local councillor (who refused to do anything about the new lights in offerton other than to blame the local MP) has turned out to be a complete pervert who was only interested in teenage boys himself!
Personal attacks - the last refuge of the small minded. What has someone's sexual preferences go t to do with their performance as a local councillor?

Stop whining about the place and do something about it. I moved away from Marple for ten years and lived in Ashton-under-Lyne in that time. If you think Marple has all the problems you listed above, I invite you to visit other towns in the region - you'll find them multiplied by ten. I moved back to Marple as soon as I could because I like living here. As most people think - it's a nice place to live.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Peter on September 22, 2002, 09:40:58 AM
Well said!
Now this debating is what the forum is really about.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on September 22, 2002, 01:39:13 PM
gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences

Having been a youthworker in Marple in a previous existence, I've seen this one from the other side!  If people were to get off their backsides and provide for/invest in young people this would be far less of an issue!  That's entirely why I was campaigning to get something done with the Bowling Green or Jolly and create a youth/community centre 3 years ago before moving down to Amersham.  Having seen simialr projects and the effects they have had I still belive it's the right way to go.

In the Summer 0f 2000 we took a group of Young People into the centre of Manchester for Message 2000 - along with thousands of other young people from across the country they spent 2 weeks out in various parts of Manchester, working on deprived estates, cleaning up local areas, working with the homeless, etc.  One team worked on a particularly notorious estate in Salford... during that time there was NO crime at all - not just a slight drop, nothing - something which the police struggled to understand.

Young People are not as bad as you make out.  Yeah, there are problems sometimes, but give them somewhere to go, provide things for them, show them love and concern - anything, but get off their case and encourage them to develop in more positive ways and you won't be disappointed.  

We currently work with over 80 11-14s every Saturday night - the kids we have are regarded as being the worst in the area and schools are shocked that we have them all together in one building all at once and are alive to tell the tale!  But because we're prepared to get out there and do things for them, to get out of our comfort zones and take risks, they are there - week in, week out - and off the streets.

It's your call  ???
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Harry on September 26, 2002, 01:23:21 PM
Just to add my 2 cents worth.

> boarded up shops There seem just as many as ever to me. Maybe Market Street has less than before but Stockport Road has plenty. Marple CycleSport is about to close, that will be another one empty for years. But I really don't know what we could fill these empty premises with. What do we need that we don't already have that would generate enough business to be viable (and don't say a Tanning Salon). Could be a business opportunity here.

Marple CycleSport is close to the Jolly, perhaps a shop selling Zimmer frames and support stockings  ;)

>and the gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences  Thats a bit strong. Groups of scallies, maybe yobs, maybe vandals, but I've not heard of anybody being mugged or abused. Am I out of touch? Are people being mugged in Marple?

On the subject of vandals. Why, oh why, do they keep replacing the glass in the bus shelters. It gets broken just about every week. Why not put in plexiglass. Throw a brick at that and it bounces back. Then again, if I owned the company supplying the glass I could think of lots of reasons.

>The traffic in and out of Marple is a nightmare True. And it will only get worse as the planners seem intent on squeezing as many dwellings on the land as possible, without doing anything to improve the roads. It seems that whenever a house with land becomes empty it is replaced by a block of flats. A bungalow is currently being replaced by flats on Station Road. Is this just a way for the council to raise money - more dwellings, more council tax. Is it true that the farm opposite Seventeen Windows is being sold with planning permission for houses? How many?

Yes there are lots of places that are worse than Marple. I chose to live in Marple, I wasn't born here. But I can see that it is slowly declining. Go and take a look at Marple Hall School. Notice the paint peeling off the woodwork, the open windows (because they don't shut), the cracks in the tennis court tarmac. This used to be a school to be proud of. Its now indicative of the area, in decline. Why?  Go and take a look at a school in one of the 'deprived' areas. You will often see that it has all the best facilities - that is where the money is going. Reddish school has, or is getting, a swimming pool. The sports facilities in Ordsall are fantastic. Marple Hall had to beg for years to get astroturf, and they still don't have floodlights.

When the councillors come round looking for re-election next time, give them a hard time about it. The 'nice' places need money spending on them as well as the 'deprived' areas.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: Scott on September 30, 2002, 03:29:43 PM
Very interesting reading all of your comments and i aggree with most of them.  

Having lived in manchester for the past four years in the city center, rusholme and burnage/levenshume i feel privaleged to have experience of both modern innercity and suburban living.  

In my hopefully balenced perspective i see marple as a wonderfull place to live, we have many amenitys such as local shops, cinima, swimming pool and a theatre.  I also think it is very valuble to our commuinity that Marple has its council/housing association estates which make it a more balenced place to live, especially for our children who will go to marple hall and meet kids from all walks of life, some of which will be disruptive and antisocial but this is healthy for young minds who hopefully will ask the question why?  what aspects of our society lead to these problems?

As for the Jolly Sailor, well....our vision was to come up with a plan for the communitry to somehow buy the place for the good of Marple.  A youth center, family entertainment venue, heritage center, tourist promotion,  all are good ideas.  Funny how as soon as we started to investigate the possibillitys we found out that mccarthy and stone wanted to knock the place down!

So here we are, several months down the line and at a critical point.  Our rule 6 appeal statements need to be in by friday.  This menas that theyhave to be sent on thusday morning therfoe leaving us till wednesday night to type them up.  Me and about three/four other people are looking over the councils/mccarthy and stones stateents to see what we can say at the appeal but its not exacly been comming together very well.  The statements can be obtained from the council in stockport (i think) and i have copys (but unfortunatly cant use a scanner to put them online).

Main issues appear to be: (taken from M&S appeal statments)

1) Whether or not the proposed access arrangment and car parking would be detrimental to highway safety. (dangerous junction, not enough carparking spaces etc)

2) Whether or not the proposed development would materially harm the amenitys of tge occupiers of existing adjacent residential properties

3) whether or not it is appropriate for the council to seek an element of affordable housing within the development of the site as proposed and if so, whether the appelent's failure to priovide such justifies a refusal of consent.

There are other issues, such as the general siutability of a maccarthy and stone development.  It has been suggested that the document "retirement living - at its very best", which is produced by mccarthy and stone would be a good thing to pick over.  We have tryed to do this, a google search found it for us a week or so ago but strangely since then all trace of it has dissapeared!  Also, we cannot access mccarthy and stone sites from out pc!  Perhaps just a strange coincidence...guess we'll never know!

Anyway, im really scared that we are not going to be able to make a good case for the appeal.  I know that we have a good case, but its how we make it and provide evedence to back it up that i am worried about!  

Anyone who has legal knowledge or knowledge about the process (water rat?) and anyone atall who is interesting in helping us on our final push can come to a meeting in the strawberry gardens pub in marple bridge (sorry its not in central marple!;) on tuesday 1st october (tomorrow! sorry for short notice again!;) at 7:30pm.

Ill going to try and post as much info as possible in the meantime and will set up a new disscussion page specifcly for the appeal.
Title: Jolly Sailor
Post by: on September 30, 2002, 06:20:06 PM
I think Scott means the Spring Gardens on Compstall Rd, Marple Bridge.