Marple Community Forum & Noticeboard

Local Community => Local Issues => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: Miss Marple on June 07, 2011, 07:21:49 PM

Title: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 07, 2011, 07:21:49 PM
Just heard from a friend who works at the college that the Big Boys from Tesco have already been into the college (Willows) on Hibbert Lane and are in talks with planning.  I do not know how true it is but I have been told that Tesco are requesting a roundabout where the newsagents is on the new road.  This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 08, 2011, 08:33:19 AM
I hope you're information source is wrong Miss Marple but I doubt it. Very clever of Tesco to wave the carrot of a new swimming pool, probably incorporating small sports centre as well. Marple has the oldest pool in the borough and this development would safe guard the facility. Also if the college is demolished Marple will also lose the dry sports facility. As for the extra traffic the development would create!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on June 08, 2011, 08:45:04 AM
Oh my! This has made me feel sick! How can we find out if this is true?

A very worried Stationery Supplies! :-[
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 08, 2011, 11:08:37 AM
I do not know how we find out but we need to act quick !  This forum can be a useful tool to either bring about change or stop ill thought out changes, its called people power.  I intend to contact one of my employees and ask him what he knows about it because since the last elections Mr Stunell has become extremely quiet
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on June 08, 2011, 12:28:13 PM
Thanks Miss Marple, I've put out a few 'feelers' myself!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on June 08, 2011, 04:58:54 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 08, 2011, 05:05:08 PM
..... This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P

I can't see whats wrong with us getting a nice new swimming pool to replace the old one we have now. Why would anyone object to this?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on June 08, 2011, 05:21:14 PM
After making some enquiries on the Marple grapevine, otherwise known as the Co-op, I have been told the word is that the college has put contracts in place for the next three years, including one with a cleaning company. Don't know how accurate this info is but there we are, this is the story that seems to be doing the rounds at the moment.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 08, 2011, 05:39:40 PM
Don't forget that the college has two buildings in Marple and they are only considering shutting one of them.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 08, 2011, 06:18:26 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
          Who told you the library was not well used .a crazy posting .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on June 08, 2011, 06:20:34 PM
This rumour has an air of the real thing about it.  The sweeteners, I'm sure SMBC would think, are tempting...the swimming pool building is old and the Stockport Rd/Hibbert Lane junction is a bit of a joke...get them both done for free!  I don't think existing contracts would stand in the way of Tesco either, they would just 'compensate' as necessary.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on June 08, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tonyjones on June 08, 2011, 08:19:43 PM
IF tesco are planning to build a store on the Hibbert Lane site they are probably looking at trying to get customers from:
 Disley and High Lane who will travel through Hawk Green,
 New Mills who will travel along Strines Road and through the centre of Marple
 Marple Bridge, Compstall and Romiley who will travel up Brabyns Brow and through the centre of Marple.

The centre of Marple around stockport Road will become grid locked.

Apart from traffic concerns the real issue is what will happen to all the local shops who will loose custom.

Marple does not want or need a tesco store coming in to grab all the business it can.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 08, 2011, 08:23:32 PM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)
YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH !!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on June 08, 2011, 09:12:02 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
Why would council tax go down?It never has,never will and the tax banding is for Stockport not Marple ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on June 08, 2011, 10:07:34 PM
Why would council tax go down?It never has,never will and the tax banding is for Stockport not Marple ::)

Maybe not but it would free up millions of pounds to spend on more essential services. And I mentioned Stockport as a whole.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 09, 2011, 04:24:17 PM
IF tesco are planning to build a store on the Hibbert Lane site they are probably looking at trying to get customers from:
 Disley and High Lane who will travel through Hawk Green,
 New Mills who will travel along Strines Road and through the centre of Marple
 Marple Bridge, Compstall and Romiley who will travel up Brabyns Brow and through the centre of Marple.

The centre of Marple around stockport Road will become grid locked.

Apart from traffic concerns the real issue is what will happen to all the local shops who will loose custom.

Marple does not want or need a tesco store coming in to grab all the business it can.
why does everybody shop at TESCO .NEW SWIMING BATHS NEW ROAD LAYOUT TO COMPLIMENT DAN BANK . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplex on June 09, 2011, 06:37:15 PM
Well I have to say that I would be totally in favour of this proposal if they do indeed build a new swimming pool that includes a gym.

At the moment I travel to Morrison's in Bredbury at least once a week which a 8 mile round trip and I travel to the gym at the Mooreside in Disley 3 times a week which is a 16 mile round trip.  If we had a Tesco's in Marple and swimming including gym I would save about £600 a year in petrol.  People only seem to talk about the extra traffic coming into Marple but I am far more interested in the  mileage that I would save. I also calculate that I would save over 40 hours of driving time a year.

I also don't see how it can affect local shops. We all currently shop at the supermarket so what difference does it make to local shops if we shop at Tesco's in Marple or Morrison's in Bredbury or wherever.  It would bring more employment to Marple which is another good thing. If fact if it brings people into Marple then that can be a good thing for local businesses.  I do however think that our friends at Spar and Premier would suffer though, but I don't think that would be any great loss!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on June 09, 2011, 09:36:58 PM
What have you all got against the Co-op?!!!  It is not at all bad, and the movement as a whole is seeking to improve all the time.  I do, from time to time, go to other supermarkets, and I do use the local shops, particularly Wilsons, but I support the Co-op as much as I can.  (I await the brickbats!!)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on June 09, 2011, 09:53:32 PM
tescos on hibbert lane a good idea ??? are you lot bonkers stupid idea,even more huge hgvs and traffic clogging up marple,we allready have a co-op x2 iceland etc,we dont need any more superstores thanks.
all for the bribe of a little swimming baths/gym we allready have one,get our handsomely paid idle councilliors to improve the one we have and theres a gym in the mill.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 10, 2011, 09:20:07 AM
MarpleX there is also a Gym at the current swimming pool, small but perfectly adequate. If you went there you would save on the petrol and the membership is cheaper than the Moorside. Unfortunately swimming pools are very expensive both to build and run so any thoughts that the council would be able to provide the funds are gone these days. We missed the boat many years ago when the new pools were being built at Romiley & Hazel Grove.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mike W on June 10, 2011, 11:50:26 AM
I've no idea whether there's any truth in this rumour, but I'd be inclined to treat any promises of swimming pools or leisure facilities with a huge dollop of salt.  Some years ago, I lived in the immediate vicinity of a proposed major supermarket development.  Before planning permission was granted, the company concerned (not Tesco, I should say) made extensive promises about the leisure and community facilities that would be built to replace those being lost to the development.  They even organised an exhibition so that local residents could view plans and models of the new facilities.  Perhaps needless to say, once permission was granted and the supermarket built, none of the promised facilities ever materialised.  It's very hard for local authorities to enforce planning conditions retrospectively, unless they're prepared to engage in costly and potentially risky legal action. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 10, 2011, 07:55:06 PM
Tesco have got "form" regarding their empty promises of swimming pools, leisure facilities etc.

For one example see the excellent Tescopoly site (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=340&Itemid=111)

We lost our fight against Tesco in 1990 as the developers offered to provide Adur with a swimming pool, which turned out to be just a building with a hole in it so the council had to plumb and tile the pool and furnish/decorate the building! This year it could no longer afford to run this pool and has leased it to a private enterprise.

Or the promise of building a proper ice skating rink before the existing one gets demolished to make way for the store (a temporary one was built, meanwhile Tesco press on with further expansion of the new store regardless) Tescopoly site again (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1329&Itemid=105)

I don't have a right lot of confidence in Stockport Council outsmarting the mighty Tesco monopoly machine, based on their previous skirmishes, see example  Independent newspaper article (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesco-bullies-councils-to-get-its-way-523197.html).

In Portwood, Stockport, Tesco built a Tesco Extra hypermarket which failed to comply with planning conditions. At 120,000 sq ft, the store was 20 per cent larger than the size limit that Stockport Borough Council had imposed on it when it granted planning permission.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 10, 2011, 08:50:12 PM
I think there's a lot of truth in this as apparently the college's staff were told about these plans some time ago but told not to mention it before the council elections.  Perhaps some of our local councillors have a vested interest in this - maybe it's time to ask them. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 11, 2011, 06:11:44 AM
"Miss Marple" has passed on this message from Cllr Andrew Bispham concerning the Tesco rumours. I should add that MM's real name, email address and phone number were provided to Cllr Bispham but I have removed/replaced them for this public post.


From: "Cllr Andrew Bispham"
Date: 10 June 2011 22:17:07 GMT+01:00
To: “Miss Marple”
Subject: Hibbert Lane.

“Miss Marple”,
 
This is a rumour which keeps circulating but as far as I am aware there is absolutely nothing in it. Should the collage vacate, the land at Hibbert Lane is designated as housing land in the structure plan and therefore is not available for a supermarket. If they have looked, this is what they have been told.This is also the first that I have heard about a roundabout. But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of a good rumour. 
 
Try these, the council are going give permission for genetically modified crops on Arkwright Road rec and the military are going to start dumping low level nuclear waste in Chadkirk Mill. Both of these are totally untrue but it would be interesting to see what comes back after they have done the rounds for six weeks.
 
Enjoy your weekend.
 
Andrew
 
 
From: autosend@stockportcouncillors.info [mailto:autosend@stockportcouncillors.info]
Sent: 10 June 2011 22:01
To: Cllr Andrew Bispham
Subject: You Have been sent a message from stockportcouncillors.info
 
Councillor Andrew Bispham
You Have Received A Message From “Miss Marple”

Tesco
Have you any information about Tesco coming to Marple on Hibbert lane and a roundabout being put where the swimming baths and newsagents is I have heard that all the councillors are aware but wanted nothing said until after the election. When replying be mindful that I put replies on web site for all other interested residents.

 Regards “Miss Marple”

Phone Number #########
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 11, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
In Portwood, Stockport, Tesco built a Tesco Extra hypermarket which failed to comply with planning conditions. At 120,000 sq ft, the store was 20 per cent larger than the size limit that Stockport Borough Council had imposed on it when it granted planning permission.
[/quote]

To be fair to the Council on this one. They did punish Tesco for this and a significant chunk of the Portwood building lies idle. Just have a look the next time you are in there - there is a chunk of retail area down the side near the front door which is not being used after Stockport Council realised what had happened and applied the relevant enforcement action.

There is a long way to go before a store could be built anyway and its not as easy as you might think, but if the demand is there,  I have no doubt that Marple is a candidate for a store. Afterall 30,000+ residents (if you include the outlying settlements) being served by a succession of small co-ops is ripe for something.

I also think that the concerns re: traffic chaos are probably completely overblown, as with a bit if creativity and spending (which the Council could easily extract from any developer through the planning system - and in my experience Stockport Council are one of the better North West Councils for achieving this) I'm sure a solution could be delivered.

I'm no supporter of any new store (if indeed there is any liklihood of one being promoted) but if proposals do come forward, one has to be rationale when reviewing things. The planning system is not there to support the retention of the status quo comewhat may, but rather seeks to decide whether a proposed land use is reasonable for the location proposed. If it is, then planning permission will be granted, with conditions controlling things. If its not then the application will be refused. Emotion plays no part in the long run, as even if you can 'get at' your local council to oppose matters, any impartial government inspector would simpy overturn any such decision made for political reasons at appeal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplex on June 11, 2011, 02:16:56 PM
The college has Governors meetings (or something similar) which has a few students in attendance.  My son who attends the college has been told by a student that attends the meetings that plan is to sell the Hibbert Lane site to Tesco's and to extend the Burton Lane site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 11, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
Not sure why Councillor Bispham is unaware of this as there is a councillor on the governors at the college - I just had a look on their website and there's a list of the governors.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 11, 2011, 04:27:09 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept so we are not  just left with a cut and sealed decision ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 11, 2011, 04:42:59 PM
The college should have a policy where the minutes of the Governor's meetings can be made available to the public, might be an idea to ask for a copy of the minutes of the last few meetings. If the Governor's have deemed that the minutes are not available to the public then they may be attempting to hide something.
However is the land is designated as housing on the Structure plan then it would be very hard to get the land designated for Retail development.
No doubt the college will try and sell the land to the highest bidder, but the question we should be asking our local councillors is "If the land is sold off by the college what is happening about the dry sports facility, located on the current site,  that is available to the general public after 4:00 pm."
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 11, 2011, 05:05:23 PM
From the last Finance and General Committee Meeting at Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College:

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47

Quote
Item 6
STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
The Chair reported that the consultants were making good progress with property matters. More information on progress would be brought to the next meeting of Corporation.

The next Corporation meeting was scheduled for 1st March but the minutes are not on-line.

It says on the page:

Minutes of Corporation and Committee meetings held since January 2008 are available on this page. Minutes and papers (except those currently deemed confidential) can also be viewed by arrangement at the Cheadle campus of the College. Please contact Carole Jeffery, Clerk to the Corporation, at the Cheadle campus either in writing or by telephone on 0161 486 4670 or mobile 07841 500547.

Item 12 in another set of minute from the Estates Committee meetings almost exactly a year ago mention several times reports deemed confidential due to commercial sensitivity:

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf

Away you go Miss Marple..........
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 11, 2011, 05:17:09 PM
If only there was a Marple councillor in the management team at the college. :-\

Oh wait, here we are : Councillor Shan Alexander ;D

(http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/UserData/7/1/1/Info00000117/bigpic.jpg)

Declaration of interests here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6).

Profile and contact details here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on June 11, 2011, 05:44:37 PM

By invitation to the CAMSFC Estates Committee meeting 2010 meeting was Mark Krassowski of Walsingham Planning listed as consultants for Item 12.  The info below is from the Walsingham Planning website 

Mark’s experience includes acting for retailers such as Sainsbury, Tesco, Lidl, B&Q, Wickes and Dixons, wholesale operator Costco and shopping centre owner and developer Westfield Shoppingtowns. Mark has also promoted numerous retail schemes for landowners and developers on town centre, edge of centre and out of centre sites.

To be fair , Walsingham Planning also do education projects so to find out exactly what's going on, perhaps it is time for our Councillors to answer some questions on the issue and those invited to the estates meeting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 11, 2011, 06:28:30 PM
I have emailled local councillors, Stockport Express local reporter and our MP and have asked them for a speedy reply as to what they know.  When their replies are in :-\ I am thinking of arranging a meeting with them  so that residents can find out first hand what is happening to the college site, be it housing or a Tesco.  I am slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that our representatives think that they can speak on our behalf! WELL they can not without consultation  So if a meeting was to be held could I count on support from members of the forum to attend ?  I think it's important that residents have their say and I hope you do too?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 11, 2011, 09:23:30 PM
If only there was a Marple councillor in the management team at the college. :-\

Oh wait, here we are : Councillor Shan Alexander ;D

(http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/UserData/7/1/1/Info00000117/bigpic.jpg)

Declaration of interests here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6).

Profile and contact details here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117).


Cllr Alexander is not listed on the Cheadle and Marple College web site as a governor or committee member and I suspect the info you have linked to may be out of date.
You would note that it is dated 2006. There is a Cllr. Margaret McLay listed as a Governor and I think she may have taken over Cllr Alexander's role some time ago.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=44
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 11, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept so we are not  just left with a cut and sealed decision ?
            Dont littlewoods the buchers have a form in the shop .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 11, 2011, 09:34:24 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept .......

Why are so many people set on objecting to something they know nothing about?

Wait until you see some proposals and, if you don't agree with them, object then.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 11, 2011, 09:52:53 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept .......

Why are so many people set on objecting to something they know nothing about?

Wait until you see some proposals and, if you don't agree with them, object then.

  Don't think they are Miss Marple is objecting Seventeen windows ,Dan Bank now tesco . you go in the coop big gaps on the shelves go in Monday very few veg .people dont want that they want to be able to buy what they want .a Tesco would give them that .i know it would come at a price ,closeyer  of some shops . but its happening over the country .you cant stop progress .sorry if i upset some people saying this .
   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 11, 2011, 10:16:26 PM
I am slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that our representatives think that they can speak on our behalf!

Imagine their impertinence! Surely when the community elect someone to act / speak on their behalf then you can hardly be shocked when they do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 11, 2011, 10:46:19 PM

Cllr Alexander is not listed on the Cheadle and Marple College web site as a governor or committee member and I suspect the info you have linked to may be out of date.
You would note that it is dated 2006. There is a Cllr. Margaret McLay listed as a Governor and I think she may have taken over Cllr Alexander's role some time ago.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=44

Agree, good point.  Bit of a shambles this "register of interests" lark.  Shan's says she's still a governor at CAMSFC, Margaret's doesn't mention her governorship at CAMSFC, and another Marple councillor Kevin Dowling just doesn't list whether he has interests or not.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 12, 2011, 01:27:29 AM
I am slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that our representatives think that they can speak on our behalf!

Imagine their impertinence! Surely when the community elect someone to act / speak on their behalf then you can hardly be shocked when they do.
Think you missed my point !  I am talking democratic not totalitarian  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 12, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
Also from the last minuted Corporation Meeting meeting it states that Councillor Margaret McLay [Governor] (MMY) was present at the meeting from Item 6.4. Item 6.4 was deemed confidential on the grounds of commercial sensitivity and minuted separately. Miss Marple I'm sure you would like to point this out to Cllr Bispham, for info Margaret McLay was a Lib Dem councillor for Romiley until the last elections in May when she lost her seat.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 12, 2011, 04:13:00 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept .......

Why are so many people set on objecting to something they know nothing about?

Wait until you see some proposals and, if you don't agree with them, object then.
That's what I am trying to do Harry!  It's called having an informed choice !!!  Which is not a phrase you hear so much especially in Stockport.  Armed with knowledge and the right to active consultation, mountains have been known to be moved,  armchair  politics is exactly why nothing ever gets done, and then most of us have that 'OH MY GOD ' type moment !   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 13, 2011, 09:27:16 PM
Miss Marple has had another reply from Cllr Bispham:

From: "Cllr Andrew Bispham"
Date: 13 June 2011 19:03:21 GMT+01:00
To: "Miss Marple"
Subject: Hibbert Lane Site.

"Miss Marple",

Following your e mails at weekend I have asked about the Hibbert Lane site today. As I said at weekend, nothing has changed. The land is designated as housing land and if a supermarket chain were to put in an application for a store, it would, or certainly should be, refused. In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities.          

The above notwithstanding, the following is a possible scenario which I have given to residents before.

Assume the site is purchased, a planning application is submitted, and is then refused by Stockport MBC. The applicant would then immediately appeal to the Secretary of State against such a decision as the owner of the site has a right to dispose of it or develop it as they see fit. Having invested heavily in purchasing the site they have an enormous interest in that investment.

The appeal could go two ways. Either the decision is upheld or dismissed.

A) If it is upheld the next step would be the High Court and the case would be decided by the courts.

B) If however it is dismissed, the store chain would then get planning permission from the Secretary of State to do as they wished. Stockport MBC would then in all probability have costs awarded against them for delaying a legitimate application. Not only would you get your store, but as ratepayers, you would have the privilege of paying to build it.

In addition, Stockport MBC would not be able to place conditions on the applicant as they didn't grant permission.

Here are some salient points to the above.

At no time in the above have any local councillors been involved in the procedure.

An application of this sort would never be decided at a local level.

All planning applications succeed eventually. Planning is exactly like playing poker. Only when you give up do you fail.

Planning is an expensive game, barristers, lawyers and planning consultants are not cheap, if an applicant is prepared to spend thousands on winning, then objectors have to be prepared to spend the more to defeat them.

Regards, Andrew Bispham
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alan@romiley on June 13, 2011, 11:18:55 PM
Sound advice from Councillor Bispam, he I would trust!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 14, 2011, 04:26:41 PM
I disagree with Cllr Bispham statement that "No local councillors have been involved in the procedure", Margaret McLay who was a Lib Dem councillor for Romiley until the last elections in May when she lost her seat has been present at meetings where the possible use of the land has been discussed.
Or is Romiley not local?
The minutes have not been published by the college due to their commercial sensitivity, which I suspect is a ruse by the college to stop residents objecting and putting off bids from various organisations in advance of planning permission being sought.
The college would want to get the best price for the land so they should open it up to competitive bids, so why are they keeping the minutes secret for nearly 2 years!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 14, 2011, 05:40:57 PM
That's a good point Victor?  I am awaiting other replies from councillors and our MP. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 14, 2011, 07:14:10 PM
The Tescopoly site regarding objections to a store in Poynton makes interesting reading http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=857&Itemid=107
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 14, 2011, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: Councillor Bispham
All planning applications succeed eventually. Planning is exactly like playing poker. Only when you give up do you fail.

While I appreciate his candid opinion on the proposal, it's heartening to see the Poynton folk weren't quite so defeatist as the councillor.  Local folk should be entitled to a say in their environment and the success or failure of a development shouldn't just come down to who has the fat wallet.

After they won their battle with Tesco, their campaign website was taken down, but it's still possible to view a copy of it via archive.org here (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120171000/http://www.poyntonagainsttesco.co.uk/).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on June 15, 2011, 01:37:43 PM
I don't really care whether it is Tescos, Sainsbury's, Aldi or whoever, it is high time that the Co-op in Marple had some competition: their prices are terrible, their shelves are often empty (especially of fruit and vegetables) and a sizable minority of their staff are very impolite.

Tescos wouldn't bring any more traffic - the same number of people will do the same amount of shopping ... they just won't have to drive into Stockport or Hazel Grove to do it. I can't imagine many people from outside deliberately driving into Marple because a new supermarket has opened there. Nor can I imagine any decent small shop in the centre of Marple suffering: the supermarkets simply don't sell the same things.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 02:06:44 PM
Sorry don't agree, you only have to look at the impact that Morrissons had on Bredbury to realise that a large supermarket like Tesco would decimate Marple and clog it up with traffic. Marple's roads can't handle what's thrown at them now. It would be like the rush hour but 12 hrs a day.
Also a new Tesco would move the centre of Marple down to Hibbert Lane, all the students would go to the Tesco for lunch and half the shops would shut as a result.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplex on June 15, 2011, 02:38:05 PM
I am going to keep an open mind and as with most things there are going to be winners and losers. I have to say however that at the moment I am very much in favour of a new Tesco's in Marple.

Quote
all the students would go to the Tesco's for lunch
What is wrong with that? they have to go somewhere, where do they go now?

Quote
It would be like the rush hour but 12 hrs a day
At the moment people are driving through Marple going to Stockport & Bedbury, etc. A store in Marple would result in less driving for residents and people in surrounding area's instead of driving through would stop in Marple.  It would also mean less traffic in Bredbury!

Quote
half the shops would shut as a result
I disagree, the shops in Marple are not competing with the Supermarkets. We are all going to the Supermarkets now anyway in Stockport & Bredbury or wherever. In fact because residents would be more likely to stay in Marple and people from the surrounding area instead of driving through actually stop in Marple the local shops could actually see a boom in business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 03:17:21 PM
In answer to the above comments

1  By going to the local shops in keeps Gregg's etc in business, without the student income they would close.

2  The people driving to other supermarkets from Marple aren't clogging up Marple, they are adding to the congestion in hazel Grove, Bredbury etc.

3  At present a large number of people either walk or drive to the co-op, which is centrally located, and doing so pass local shops where they buy other things from (Butchers, Bakers, hardware store etc.) If there was a Tesco built they would drive to that store, park up, shop and then drive home. Not visiting any local stores because they are too far away
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 03:25:26 PM
1  By going to the local shops in keeps Gregg's etc in business, without the student income they would close.

If the college can't sell the land to build a supermarket then the college could close. You have a self defeating argument.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 03:29:37 PM
Re the posts from hollins and marplex:

Good points, well made. I'm in full agreement with you both.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 04:05:38 PM
Not if they sell the land for a housing development, OK will cause an increase to the local traffic but it is the lesser of the two evils.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 04:59:14 PM
Not if they sell the land for a housing development, OK will cause an increase to the local traffic but it is the lesser of the two evils.

Wrong.  A housing development would not realise anything like the return that a supermarket would. That is why they want to sell it to a supermarket.

We are already going to have more traffic when the development on the Klondike site is finished. I understand that is about 99 homes, so probably about 200 cars trying to get out of Marple in the morning and back in the afternoon.

If the Hibbert Lane site was sold for housing I should think they could squeeze something like 300 hutches\\\\\\ houses on there. That would be another 600 cars. All trying to get out and back at the same times.

At least a supermarket spreads the traffic throughout the day. And some of us would walk there instead of driving to Bredbury or Hazel Grove.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 05:39:38 PM
The land is already designated as housing, it would generate a considerable amount of money for the college to continue to operate on 2 sites (Marple & Cheadle). At the end of the day the land originally belonged to the people of Marple, do you not think that the college has got a moral obligation to make sure that any land they dispose of does not destroy Marple?
Also Tesco would want more than 600 car journeys a day to make the site viable, more like 9000 a day.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on June 15, 2011, 05:44:08 PM
there's a lot of guessing going on in this thread

 ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on June 15, 2011, 05:44:17 PM
Anyone who believes that a Tesco would not impact on our local shops is kidding themselves. Most people who shop locally also make  a weekly trip to another out of Marple Supermarket. But although there is a strong desire in many cases to use local shops, a Tesco in Marple would suckup some of that local shop income. The two delis would undoubtedly suffer, at least one more baker would close, the butchers would suffer, the fish van would probably stop coming twice a week, the bookshop would lose trade and so on.

Traffic would increase in Marple as people from High Lane, Disley, hayfield and New Mills would all have an alternative to the Tesco's at Glossop or Whaley Bridge. What is the problem with the Coop? Whilst they dont always have the range of the largest Tesco's their prices are not unreasonable and are probably a saving taking into account petrol costs. I personally have never had a problem with any staff in the Coop and actually recognise many of them. My wife and I shop at Tesco's on a regular basis but also try to spend locally as we recognise that a balanced society needs its local shops too. If everyone in Marple and the surrounding areas made a conscious effort to spend £5 or£10 a week locally then local businesses would thrive.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 06:15:04 PM
there's a lot of guessing going on in this thread

There certainly is. I have no idea why people are saying 'Tesco'. That is pure speculation. There are quite a number of possible options.

Some people seem to think that our college is not in a similar position to others. It may not be in as much debt, but it will be in debt.

See http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1423020_100-workers-face-the-axe-as-stockport-college-faces-5m-debt-crisis



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on June 15, 2011, 06:18:34 PM
I agree Moorendman, a tesco (or any other large supermarket) will undoubtedly impact on local traders, and on the traffic.
In my humble opinion, Marple is getting too big, and has lost the "village" feel that it had when I moved here 22 years ago. One of the lovely and unique things about Marple is the variety of small local shops, and although I do the bulk of my shopping in Sainsburys, I visit the local butchers, fishman and greengrocers weekly, as well as the deli for special cheeses, gifts etc. The quality of meat and fresh veg is a million times better than from supermarkets.
And I use the co-op for extras at least weekly, ok so it's not huge, but it stocks the basics and I have never found the staff to be any worse than in any supermarket.
Just my opinion though


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 15, 2011, 08:02:05 PM
If Tesco is pure speculation ( which I very much hope it is ) why have Littlewoods Butchers started a petition in opposition  ???  I do not go to Littlewoods as I am a veggie, does anyone know where they gained their information from?   I am still awaiting replies from councillors, planning and our MP but to date the only person who has had the decency to reply is Andrew Bispham.   Would it not  seem more environmentally friendly to address the failings of the Co op by speaking or complaining about their poor stock and second rate veg ? Than to have huge lorries transporting goods into Marple which are already in abundance in other small local shops.    I sometimes think the worlds gone mad because on one hand we are recycling like crazy to protect the environment and then we fail to consider the effects to the place we live in by allowing unnecessary developments such as allowing a multi billion land grabbing company like Tesco to bully their way in.
What I also dont understand is if the population is growing and more housing is required why do we not require schools and colleges in Marple !  Oh I have got it now !!!  We close the schools and college, build more houses and a new supermarket !  Then have to take our children to an out of area school by car ?  THATS WHY I AM NOT IN POWER I CAN NOT THINK LOGICALLY !  SHAME  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on June 15, 2011, 08:36:52 PM
Well said moorendman!  We all shop in the big supermarkets from time to time - but the Co-op is not at all bad, and often has offers to rival the others.  Plus free delivery, and local staff that you get to know over time.  I shall be very interested to eventually find out what is the actual truth, rather than all these rumours!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 15, 2011, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: Councillor Bispham
All planning applications succeed eventually. Planning is exactly like playing poker. Only when you give up do you fail.

While I appreciate his candid opinion on the proposal, it's heartening to see the Poynton folk weren't quite so defeatist as the councillor.  Local folk should be entitled to a say in their environment and the success or failure of a development shouldn't just come down to who has the fat wallet.

After they won their battle with Tesco, their campaign website was taken down, but it's still possible to view a copy of it via archive.org here (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120171000/http://www.poyntonagainsttesco.co.uk/).
Dont they now have a lagest waitrose now in Poynton .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rsh on June 17, 2011, 01:40:31 AM
Tescos wouldn't bring any more traffic - the same number of people will do the same amount of shopping ... they just won't have to drive into Stockport or Hazel Grove to do it. I can't imagine many people from outside deliberately driving into Marple because a new supermarket has opened there. Nor can I imagine any decent small shop in the centre of Marple suffering: the supermarkets simply don't sell the same things.
Agreed with that. It's strange that a village the size of Marple has had that single Co-op for so long. While I'd hate us to be overrun with chains like Hazel Grove, it probably ends up being to the detriment of Marple and its local shops that so many people end up driving out of the town to do their shopping.

Having said that, because the land is raised from the road anything built there would really dominate the environment. One of Tesco's standard white boxes (like at Whaley Bridge, about the size I presume they'd want for Marple) would look absolutely terrible, for example. Hopefully if any of this is true, people wouldn't waste too much energy on an outright "no" (which might get overturned) but push 'em to design something with at least an ounce of building quality...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on June 18, 2011, 08:58:59 AM
If Tesco is pure speculation ( which I very much hope it is ) why have Littlewoods Butchers started a petition in opposition  ???  I do not go to Littlewoods as I am a veggie, does anyone know where they gained their information from?

It is our understanding that the petiition in Littlewoods Butchers was placed there by one of their customers - it is not being run or managed by Littlewoods themselves.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on June 18, 2011, 09:01:06 AM
One of the lovely and unique things about Marple is the variety of small local shops. and although I do the bulk of my shopping in Sainsburys, I visit the local butchers, fishman and greengrocers weekly, as well as the deli for special cheeses, gifts etc. The quality of meat and fresh veg is a million times better than from supermarkets.

Couldn't agree more.  The quality of produce from your local independents is far better than that usually found in the supermarkets.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 25, 2011, 07:04:53 PM
Well said moorendman!  We all shop in the big supermarkets from time to time - but the Co-op is not at all bad, and often has offers to rival the others.  Plus free delivery, and local staff that you get to know over time.  I shall be very interested to eventually find out what is the actual truth, rather than all these rumours!!
             Glad you dont think its not bad today sat 25 june very few veg alot of the shelves big gaps in them i went with a list of five items icame back with two . if you call that not bad . ROLL ON TESCO .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 25, 2011, 09:23:26 PM
A Tesco Extra would be a great idea in the Bridge possibly use the Norfolk  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 27, 2011, 02:25:04 PM
Not big enough
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 04:05:16 PM
Not big enough
We could ask for it to be on two floors  ;D. In fact Tesco Extras are only small stores.  Hey I might suggest it to them !  It will save on  the increased traffic into Marple and everyone in the Bridge will be happy with the well stocked shelves. Do you know I amaze myself sometimes with my insight and forward planning ideas  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on June 27, 2011, 04:19:36 PM
you certainly amaze us with your ideas..






and by amaze I mean bewilder  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 27, 2011, 06:52:50 PM
good fun  :)[ no trees would need removing if this went ahead ] 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 27, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
Tesco Extra are their largest stores. As in the Stockport one.

I think you mean Tesco Express, which are convenience stores.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 10:15:20 PM
Tesco Extra are their largest stores. As in the Stockport one.

I think you mean Tesco Express, which are convenience stores.
Yes that's the one Harry thank you !  You can tell I don't get out of Marple much  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
you certainly amaze us with your ideas..






and by amaze I mean bewilder  ;)
Awh cheers mate !   I try my best  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 11:29:46 PM
good fun  :)[ no trees would need removing if this went ahead ] 
Now your on my wave length Amazon !!!  I can see your warming to the idea  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 12, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Contacted planning dept today to be told there have been no plans as yet submitted but that they could be in pre planning and if they are there would be now way of knowing !   The best advise they could give was to keep a look out for a public notice which will be posted within the site area !  I have contacted a couple of local councillors and The press so I am waiting for their response  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 12, 2011, 11:56:50 PM
I have contacted a couple of local councillors and The press so I am waiting for their response  ???
I suspect you have asked councillors to look for something that isn't there, tesco would not permission on a green field site. I'd like to see traders open later and likes of tesco would have too much competition.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 13, 2011, 07:42:09 AM
Over the last few weeks I have been doing some digging with various local contacts and here are the facts.

The college wants to sell the Hibbert Lane site to raise funds to redevelop the Buxton Lane site.

If the land was sold for housing it would raise about £4M, if sold for retail development around £12M would be generated.

The college principal does not want this discussed with even the staff as last time this happened the general public became aware very quickly.

A company (I don't know who) have already been round the site looking at the useability of the site.

If any councillor voiced opposition to any proposed development then they would not be allowed to vote when the development came before the local area committee.

I would suggest that the only effective way that local people can voice their opposition to the site being used for Retail development is by signing a local petition, if there is enough support for this can it be arranged to be on-line using this site? With the new planning guidelines being introduced planners have got to take into account local views and this just might be enough to frighten off any developer.

And before anyone asks I'm not at liberty to name any of my sources, but I haven't hacked into anyone's mobile messages!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on July 13, 2011, 07:46:44 AM
I was told by a member of staff  at the college, that they want the money to build a new college on Buxton lane, but staff have not been told and are not allowed to know, who the interested parties are  for buying the land on Hibbert lane .

Confirming what Victor M is saying  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 13, 2011, 09:13:47 AM
I would suggest that the only effective way that local people can voice their opposition to the site being used for Retail development is by signing a local petition, if there is enough support for this can it be arranged to be on-line using this site? With the new planning guidelines being introduced planners have got to take into account local views and this just might be enough to frighten off any developer.

As said 'planners have got to take into account local views'. So the petition should not be just for those against, but also for the many who are for this development. Lets get a balanced view.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 13, 2011, 09:22:27 AM
I think people should also realise that by objecting to these proposed plans they are actively trying to prevent the college from generating £8m (1) of much needed finance.

If the college were to close, where would our young people go to further their education?


(1) If Victor's figures are correct, as i suspect they are.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 11:49:25 AM
Credit where credits due Councillor Bispham is the only councillor to date who has replied.  I think an on line petition would be a good idea but first the residents who will be directly affected by the proposed development need alerting to the possible proposal.   I have suggested a public meeting at the library when a little more is known and to advertise this with posters and door to door alerting.  There is a freedom of information act which probably would not work where there are issues of commercial confidentiality   COME ON OTHER LOCAL COUNCILLORS !!!! why are you not showing any intrest in matters which may directly affect or local area . It's the one time I wish that there was a local election looming.  Not to worry though there is a Local Area Committee Meeting in Marple  at the end of this month where all our local councillors will be along with our MP I hope by then we will have enough information to put to them.  NB if anyone sees a notice put up by the planning dept in that vicinity can you let me know ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 02:40:21 PM
Just out of interest has the Marple  Business forum  gained  the views of local traders and if so is it positive or negative regarding Tesco  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 02:57:44 PM
Just contacted Marple 6th Form College and asked about the proposed development.  I have been told that Christina Cassidy (principle) Mike Shaw (deputy principle) or Andrew Hubert (finance ) will contact me Asap about the matter.  Don't think I will hold my breath  :-\. But who knows   It sounded very much like I was not the first caller as I was told that they would be very happy to discuss the development  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 13, 2011, 05:05:32 PM
With regard to the College closing, from what info I have been able to gather there is no question mark at present over student numbers, the college at present has enough students to fund itself. Questions need to be asked of the Governing body as to why they didn't apply for funding earlier, while it was still available, and why £12M needs to be spent on new buildings. The college also has a moral responsibility to the people of Marple that they don't change the fabric and infrastructure to the detriment of the local area.

With regard to involving Marple local councillors and MP, if they make any negative comment at all about the proposed development before the planning meeting then they will be barred from voting, and I think speaking at that meeting. Please bear this in mind when trying to involve them. They may well appear to be uninterested, when in fact they are only trying to keep their powder dry.

As for a balanced view, great all those in favour of such a development organise a separate petition!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 13, 2011, 05:31:56 PM
With regard to the College closing, from what info I have been able to gather there is no question mark at present over student numbers, the college at present has enough students to fund itself. Questions need to be asked of the Governing body as to why they didn't apply for funding earlier, while it was still available, and why £12M needs to be spent on new buildings.

The college will only discover how many students they will have in the next academic year, after enrolment, which starts at the end of August. Until then its just guesswork.

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 13, 2011, 05:44:57 PM
Miss Marple has received a reply from Cllr. Susan Ingham that she has asked me to post on her behalf:

From: "Susan Ingham"
Date: 13 July 2011 15:11:10 GMT+01:00
To: "Miss Marple'"
Cc: Cllr Shan Alexander, Cllr Kevin Dowling, Cllr Martin Candler, Cllr Craig Wright, Cllr Andrew Bispham

Subject: RE: Tesco coming to Marple

Dear "Miss Marple"

Thank you for your recent email. I'm replying as Chair of the Area Committee and (on) behalf of the Marple Councillors.

My understanding of this situation is this;

The College needs to sell the Hibbert Lane Campus to raise funds to enhance the facility on Buxton Lane. We don't know who they may sell the land to, only that they are in the process of identifying suitable buyers.

There are currently no planning applications for any development on that site, either housing or supermarkets.

From a planning point of view the Hibbert Lane land is designated for housing.  Retail developments are only permitted within the District Centre and the Hibbert Lane Campus does not fall within the District Centre. As such any planning application to build a supermarket on that site would be opposed by Planning as being against the District Planning Policy.

I hope that answers your question.

Kindest regards
Sue Ingham
Chair of Marple Area Committee
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 13, 2011, 06:00:31 PM
A hot topic at the moment is the rumour that Cheadle and Marple College may sell the Hibbert Lane campus site to a large supermarket chain. Some are for this and others against it and it looks like staying a hot topic for some time to come. This is a straw poll to establish the consensus of registered users on the forum. If you are a visitor to the site and wish to vote you will need to register. All registrations are manually approved, so please be patient. If you register using a yahoo, gmail, msn or similar type of email address it will take longer as additional checks are conducted due to so many spammers using these types of email accounts.

In order not to sway the votes you cannot see the poll results until you have voted  :-X

The poll has now been merged with the "Tesco" topic.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 06:08:52 PM
There is also the issue of possibly pulling down the original Willows building which was built in 1934. I feel that to continue to loose these buildings for example The Bowling Green. The Liberal Club. The Jolly Sailor. West Towers. To name just a few would result in Marple loosing it's unique quality and possibly ending up like Milton Keynes   I say enough is enough and to people who have chosen to move to Marple from elsewhere surely it was  something to do with it's uniqueness that you choose to move here.  I would doubt very much if people who were born and breed here are happy to see all our wonderful childhood memories being wiped of the face of the earth in an attempt to make money under that old chestnut called progress. And seriously how much more traffic can Marple take, be it Tesco or Housing the roads are bad enough ! I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on July 13, 2011, 07:19:29 PM
"To name just a few would result in Marple loosing it's unique quality and possibly ending up like Milton Keynes   I say enough is enough and to people who have chosen to move to Marple from elsewhere surely it was  something to do with it's uniqueness that you choose to move here.  I would doubt very much if people who were born and breed here are happy to see all our wonderful childhood memories being wiped of the face of the earth in an attempt to make money under that old chestnut called progress. And seriously how much more traffic can Marple take, be it Tesco or Housing the roads are bad enough ! I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !"


Marple won't lose it's unique quality and end up like Milton Keynes, I know MK quite well and it is soulless, something Marple hopefully never will be.
However I chose to move to Marple 22 years ago and we have loved it here, but life moves on, the kids have left and its time to move on, maybe to somewhere a bit more rural. You can't stop progress, Marple is not a village, it's a large town, and not really where I want to spend the rest of my life. As for Marple having nothing for young people, I disagree. Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, Tennis Club, Cricket Club, Football Clubs, Rugby Club, Carver theatre, Cinema, Swimming Pool, Parks - and probably more that I don't know about!  Good lord what more do you want?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 13, 2011, 07:24:57 PM
Just out of interest has the Marple  Business forum  gained  the views of local traders and if so is it positive or negative regarding Tesco  ???

The views of the members of the Marple Business Forum are currently similiar to the views expressed in this topic - some for it, some against and a large number holding their opinion until more facts are know.

The only facts we know at present are:
- The college would like to sell the Hibbert Lane site in order to raise funds.  Obviously, they would like to raise as much funding from the sale as possible.
- Any planning application entered for retail developement on the land should be rejected by SMBC.  Although, if an application went to appeal what would happen is anyones guess.

The only thing that we can surmise with reasonable certainty is that something is going to happen to the land - the college can't afford to keep it and nobody is going to buy it to do nothing with.

So whether it's domestic, retail or industrial some development will happen eventually.

The Marple Business Forum intends to discuss this matter at it's September meeting and come up with a stance and contingency plan for what might happen to the land (please note that this will be a closed meeting open to current members only).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 08:21:30 PM
Why is everything always a closed meeting !  What do people talk about that they don't want people to hear. I thought only the Masons did that ?    And more to the point what do shop keepers talk about that is MI 5 stuff and deemed too secretive for the public  !  Oh my god its not the price of FISH is it  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on July 13, 2011, 08:54:36 PM
With regard to the College closing, from what info I have been able to gather there is no question mark at present over student numbers, the college at present has enough students to fund itself. Questions need to be asked of the Governing body as to why they didn't apply for funding earlier, while it was still available, and why £12M needs to be spent on new buildings.

The college will only discover how many students they will have in the next academic year, after enrolment, which starts at the end of August. Until then its just guesswork.

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

As there isn't really a lot of competition in terms of sixth form colleges in the local area I think the question should be why the college is short of money, especially if they ARE recruiting enough students. Also I've noticed that a lot of other colleges (like the one in Hyde) have had nice new buildings without selling their land to Tesco so what's happened with the one in Marple?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on July 13, 2011, 09:03:52 PM
"To name just a few would result in Marple loosing it's unique quality and possibly ending up like Milton Keynes   I say enough is enough and to people who have chosen to move to Marple from elsewhere surely it was  something to do with it's uniqueness that you choose to move here.  I would doubt very much if people who were born and breed here are happy to see all our wonderful childhood memories being wiped of the face of the earth in an attempt to make money under that old chestnut called progress. And seriously how much more traffic can Marple take, be it Tesco or Housing the roads are bad enough ! I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !"


Marple won't lose it's unique quality and end up like Milton Keynes, I know MK quite well and it is soulless, something Marple hopefully never will be.
However I chose to move to Marple 22 years ago and we have loved it here, but life moves on, the kids have left and its time to move on, maybe to somewhere a bit more rural. You can't stop progress, Marple is not a village, it's a large town, and not really where I want to spend the rest of my life. As for Marple having nothing for young people, I disagree. Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, Tennis Club, Cricket Club, Football Clubs, Rugby Club, Carver theatre, Cinema, Swimming Pool, Parks - and probably more that I don't know about!  Good lord what more do you want?

Chicken lady ,  if ever there was a post that I could have written, then you have done it for me  ...... I totaly agree with you x x  my children have more things to do here than really  what they know to do with , its fab !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 13, 2011, 09:28:42 PM
Why is everything always a closed meeting !  What do people talk about that they don't want people to hear. I thought only the Masons did that ?    And more to the point what do shop keepers talk about that is MI 5 stuff and deemed too secretive for the public  !  Oh my god its not the price of FISH is it  :-\

I'll tackle your questions one-by-one:
- It isn't - this will be the first one I can remeber the Marple Business Forum ever having
- Nothing - you'll hear what our stance on this subject is after the meeting
- Their not
- Secrecy has nothing to do with it - the purpose of the meeting is for the members to come to a unified decision on the stance they want their local trade body to take on this one subject.  Therefore, it can only be open to members.
- No
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tina on July 13, 2011, 09:40:42 PM
is it just me or do others shake their head when Miss Marple posts on here? I'm all for tradition but life moves on and  for the future generations buildings have to be knocked down or built.  I was born here in Marple and will no doubt die here, I have no plans to leave.

I would like another supermarket in Marple, I think it is something we need. I'm not saying I think it should be on Hibbert Lane but in Marple. I try to shop local but refuse to do my weekly shop in the co-op.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: madgranite on July 13, 2011, 10:06:55 PM
Dear all,

I'm a new member to the forum and have recently got wind of the Tesco saga through my neighbours in Hawk Green.  I am totally against Tesco (or any other) supermarket moving into Marple.  Have you heard anything more by way of petitions, etc? I have been on the Stockport Council planning pages and cannot see any submissions (yet). Tesco cannot be allowed to get their grubby hands on Marple...

Brett
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on July 14, 2011, 12:05:32 AM
Although I would prefer to see more council housing being built on the site of the college, I fully support the prospect of a new Tesco.

Marple needs another supermarket.
Competition is healthy for businesses.
More people will come to Marple.
Jobs will be created.
The swimming pool will close (it is just a drain on finances).

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cross Laner! on July 14, 2011, 02:51:51 PM
In response to 'marpudlian' ........

More council housing is not the answer, this would only create problems for our community.  Affordable housing is what is required, this would enable the young families of Marple to stay in Marple and bring their own children up here.

How can you say that the swimming pool is a drain on resources....... do you go often?  Every morning the 3 or 4 local primary schools use the pool to provide swimming lessons for the children.  Most afternoons the pool operates swimming lesssons, most having waiting lists.  During the day there are swimtots and public swimming for everyone and as a user of the pool I can confirm that these sessions are well attended.  Within the swimming pool complex there is also a VERY well attended gym.  There are sessions for all ages and persons rehabilitating from injuries etc attending both the pool and gym.

I for one, feel that there are many benefits to living in Marple, we have our own cinema, we have our own shopping centre, we have parks and canals, we have our own swimming pool and all these places make Marple a great place to live.   Whilst I agree that the pool probably does cost more to run than it should do, that's simply down to poor management from the local authority as a little money spent every year would have helped to keep it in a good state of repair, instead of it now needing a total overhaul.  The pool creates a place to meet for many and I often see people during the day sitting having a coffee after they've been for a swim.

As for building a TESCO in Marple -  I would strongly object to this.  I agree that competition is good for retailers, but it would kill off many retailers on Market Street and I doubt would have a huge impact on the Coop.  I wish the Coop hadn't moved across the road to Hollins Lane from Market Street, as this split peoples shopping habits and took custom off the retailers on Market Street.  I use Tesco for my main shop but am happy to go to Stockport or Handforth or use internet shopping rather than have one on my doorstep with the additional traffic it would bring into Marple.

A separate topic has been created for discussion of closing Marple swimming pool (and library). Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Trader on July 14, 2011, 03:18:27 PM
I was interested in the various replies re Tesco but amazed to think that some people imagine that having a Tescos or other larger supermarket would not impact on the future of local businesses either within Marple or the surrounding area.  Why do people think that local villages are declining - mainly because these large supermarkets have opened up, stock everything that local businesses sell and buy at a far cheaper price than local shop-keepers can purchase them for as they buy in bulk!!  Local traders cannot compete with these people.  They may bring money and improvements to the area but they also force out the local traders - once your local traders have disappeared there will be no bringing them back - they cannot compete!! Think very seriously before this is approved it may bring money to the college which in a way I don't blame them but Marple village will decline more than it is now.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on July 14, 2011, 04:08:08 PM
Truth is though that people shop differently nowadays..

I've lived in Marple almost all my 43yrs but Mrs Tricky and I simply don't have the time to shop in the same way as people (with no other choice) once had to do.

Most local traders, whilst I wish them well, simply can't offer the flexibility in opening hours that I, and so many people, require.

We mostly 'shop' online after the kids have gone to bed, and then we have it delivered at a time that suits us. This, to me, just seems so civilised! (& I hate shopping to be fair)


I'm not totally sure why I should feel I have to pay more for my goods just because they are sold to me by someone who has a shop in the village. Sorry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 14, 2011, 09:47:56 PM
Just been speaking to a friend and local resident of Marple  who attended the last area council meeting in Marple.  My friend and a group of concerned residents had attended the meeting due to wanting the councillors to take action on Church Lane in Marple where HGVs are mounting the pavement as they try to negotiate the small one way road which is often lined with parked cars.   The residents were requesting various options to stop the heavy traffic but were informed that at present no monies were available to undertake any kind of modifications.   Later outside the meeting my friend and a group of residents were speaking to a council official from the Highways Dept who informed them quite openly that Tesco had already put forward proposals to purchase the Hibbert Lane site and if granted Tesco would fund road improvements in the area.  My friend wants to point out that this was said outside the meeting to a small group of around 6 local residents and not in the meeting or in front of the Councillors  :-\.  Seems like it may already be done and dusted  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 14, 2011, 09:56:39 PM
Off-topic post overwritten. Please stay on topic. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 07:54:43 AM
Truth is though that people shop differently nowadays..

I've lived in Marple almost all my 43yrs but Mrs Tricky and I simply don't have the time to shop in the same way as people (with no other choice) once had to do.

Most local traders, whilst I wish them well, simply can't offer the flexibility in opening hours that I, and so many people, require.

We mostly 'shop' online after the kids have gone to bed, and then we have it delivered at a time that suits us. This, to me, just seems so civilised! (& I hate shopping to be fair)

I'm not totally sure why I should feel I have to pay more for my goods just because they are sold to me by someone who has a shop in the village. Sorry.

That is a fair point, both myself and the Duchess of Fame get home at 7.30 - 8pm & the shops are all shut except the co-op.

Perhaps the traders ass'n need to organise themselves for havinga late night Thursday where all the food shops open late. This would perhaps put Tesco off on a commercial basis ratehr than a NImby basis
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 08:06:26 AM
Off-topic posts overwritten. Please stay on topic. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 10:28:12 AM
I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !

That's just unrealistic. There are two options:

i - The college continues as it is (although perhaps selling part of the unused grounds may help)
ii - It sells the plot for commercial development.

For most, (i) is favorable. Certainly the grounds to the left of the college seem wasted and the college could raise funds by selling this for housing, business or even a small supermarket. There doesn't seem to be the pressure on the finances for the college in the same way Stockport College has got itself into a mess. The reason is more likely to be that it hasn't got itself into grandiose schemes. However, if the "objection group" suggest a level of development that they feel is acceptable, perhaps the college may go for the path of least resistance.

(ii) appears most likely, For me a 'big' supermarket is not needed, the co-op pretty much do all that is required and Tesco are hardly likely to offer better prices + they have a store just off the A6. There will be significant traffic and I think that is where the best objection lies. I’d prefer a mix of housing and light industrial / business premises on the site if it were to be sold.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 15, 2011, 11:00:30 AM
I have just received a telephone call from Andrew Hubert (Finance ) Ridge College who stated that no formal proposals have been submitted to the council but that they have been involved with various interested developers.   I have asked if he would agree to attend a public meeting whereby all local residents can hear what proposals have been made from interested parties   Mr Hubert agreed that it would be possible to attend a public meeting but will have to check this out with the principal of the school who is not around until next week,and that he would get back to me.
It is hoped that the Libaray would be a possible venue I will await the agreement of the principal prior to booking the room
I have also contacted our local reporter who has been following the development on this site and I hope that we can work closely with all relevant people to ensure that Local People have a say in what's happening in our community, Village , Town or whatever
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 15, 2011, 11:15:16 AM
Sorry forgot to ask if people on the site are interested in attending the meeting ( you can remain anonymous ) if so will you post and let me know or send me a personal email
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 01:34:47 PM
Sorry forgot to ask if people on the site are interested in attending the meeting ( you can remain anonymous ) if so will you post and let me know or send me a personal email

I'd certainly attend but I do think we must not jump to conclusions, he's indicated to you that there are a number of interested parties. The assumption is it's goign to be some huge Tesco. I think it's an excellent opportunity to offer an opinion as to what would be acceptable in terms of development. It's fairly obvious that the college would like to cash in their chips in some way and that is not going to be some altrusitic action that doesn't raise any money.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 15, 2011, 08:08:50 PM
Hi Duke Fame I agree with what you are saying but the only concern I have are the words ' No Formal' to me, but I could be wrong, means that the proposals are not in the formal planning stage but that they could be in pre planning, which no one will get to know about until they are at the formal planning stage.  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 16, 2011, 01:21:25 AM
Isn't it strange that the Peacefield school site hasn't been snapped up,or has it?It is obviously very well situated for the redevelopment of CAMSFC If the Hibbert Lane site is sold.Does anyone know who owns the Hibbert Lane campus land?The LEA,SMBC or the college itself maybe.I for one hope it is not SMBC or it could be a case of Signed ,Sealed, Delivered  Tesco's  yours!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 07:02:24 AM
Isn't it strange that the Peacefield school site hasn't been snapped up,or has it? It is obviously very well situated for the redevelopment of CAMSFC If the Hibbert Lane site is sold.Does anyone know who owns the Hibbert Lane campus land?The LEA,SMBC or the college itself maybe.I for one hope it is not SMBC or it could be a case of Signed ,Sealed, Delivered  Tesco's  yours!

A group of concerned residents got together last night to discuss the rumours about the sale of the college site. The first step agreed was to write to a number of organisations including the college and the council to try and establish some hard facts about the situation. These will include questions about the present ownership of the campus land and the history of ownership and transfer details. When the letters have been sent they will be published on the web site for everyone to see, as will any replies that are received.

With regard to the Peacefield site - I have been told by a number of sources that this land cannot be built on for 10 years and believe this to be true, although I must admit I don't understand the reasons why this is the case. I have been told that MESS (www.marple-uk.com/mess) would like to turn the Peacefield site into allotments because there is a huge waiting list for these in the area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 08:55:00 AM
That's great !!!  The more people asking questions and organising themselves must be better than just waiting for the deed to be done.  I thought at one point I was talking to myself , well done for getting involved  Can you keep us all up to speed by printing the minuets of the meetings and all correspondence on the site so everyones informed as to how it's developing   And thanks for the straw poll which speaks for itself ! Fantastic stuff !  I'm off to lie down now with a damp tea towel on my head it's been hard convincing people that I am not in the early stages of dementia  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 09:49:28 AM
That's great !!!  The more people asking questions and organising themselves must be better than just waiting for the deed to be done.  I thought at one point I was talking to myself , well done for getting involved  Can you keep us all up to speed by printing the minuets of the meetings and all correspondence on the site so everyones informed as to how it's developing   And thanks for the straw poll which speaks for itself ! Fantastic stuff !

I'm not sure why you thought you were talking to yourself as you were invited to last night's meeting and decided not to attend. I think that was a shame. Some aspects of a campaign like is now getting underway would be far better if coordinated together rather than independently - such as requests made under the freedom of information act for example. It can be a problem if two sources request the same information and they can also be played off against each other. I still think it would be of all-round benefit for you to become involved with this group and I know that you would be welcomed as this was discussed too.

Whatever you decide with regard to that, the group has agreed to try and support you as much as it can even if you choose to "go it alone". However, it is important to be well prepared for meetings with the college and council, especially in public. The people that attended last night are well placed to try and encourage the support that is almost certainly going to be needed from many of our local community groups and will hope to do so once some facts have been established.

As regards keeping everyone up to speed - I did say in my earlier message that all correspondence will be published on-line and letters will be made available as soon as they have been drafted and agreed. An open and transparent approach will be taken. I hope you will continue to share any information that you obtain too, as you have done to date.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 16, 2011, 10:27:54 AM
Post overwritten as it has no relevance to the topic. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 16, 2011, 11:55:45 AM
The meeting was obviously a closed shop as I cannot see an open invitation.Yes I realise short notice,venue etc,Why was Miss M asked to attend?That in itself is not a problem as she has suggested a meeting on this forum.If it is not a too personal question? did you have a previous engagement?or would you prefer an on mass' protest/meeting? I think it is worth considering the thought that while everyone involved is "Going for Tesco" Morrisons,Asda etc could be sneaking in the back door unchallenged. A back door server you could say :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 12:48:45 PM
The meeting was obviously a closed shop as I cannot see an open invitation.Yes I realise short notice,venue etc,Why was Miss M asked to attend?That in itself is not a problem as she has suggested a meeting on this forum.If it is not a too personal question? did you have a previous engagement?or would you prefer an on mass' protest/meeting? I think it is worth considering the thought that while everyone involved is "Going for Tesco" Morrisons,Asda etc could be sneaking in the back door unchallenged. A back door server you could say :o

The meeting was arranged at short notice and had to be held in the home of one of the residents organising it because an alternative venue could not be found. An open invitation was not a practical option, nor particularly desirable at this stage because so few facts are available. The first objective is to try and find out some facts that can then be shared with the wider community. It was suggested that Miss M be invited because of her obvious interest in doing something about this issue, which is plain to see from her forum posts. I approached Miss M through the forum and she agreed that I could pass on her details so that invite could be sent. A similar invite was sent to Victor M for the same reasons but unfortunately he had a prior engagement and could not attend.

I think your other questions are addressed to Miss M.

With regard to your final point - that's a good one and it is recognised that although Tescos is always cited in the rumours the others are possible candidates too. The approach to seeking information will take that into account.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 03:07:33 PM
Yes Trixie, I was invited to last nights meeting but unfortunately could not attend because I  had a prior engagement with an Owl, it's the highlight of my month!  I do and will support the group and intend if a mutually convenient time is arranged  to attend the next meeting when that date is known. My opinion is , and it is only an opinion, that it is irrelevant at this stage to use the Freedom of Information act and wait for replies to letters.  It is nearly 2 months ago when I was alerted to the information that Tesco was interested in purchasing the sight. Heaven knows how much lead Tesco has on us now    We could in my opinion never stop Tesco from purchasing the site (see Andrew Bispham's early email) but what we could do is start letting Tesco or whoever know  that we have public opposition to them developing the site.  I am mindful that not everyone has access to the Internet or even a computer so the old fashioned way of getting the message out to the community has to be done the hard way IE door to door, signatures and just raising public awareness.  Having said all that the group that has set up can compliment this by doing the ground work on who owns this and that as it is all very useful information and will eventually prove a powerful tool but ,  my first intention is to start raising awareness via the local press and it is hoped that via the free paper all interested parties can be party to what's happening.  I have no intention whatsoever of entering into talks with Tesco about what we could get in exchange for allowing Tesco to move in which may in fact not go down well with some people.  My stance is that Tesco and the likes are not welcomed here and no matter what they promise in return for the disruption and loss of small shops would ever Change my opinion.  There has been some very informative posts on this subject like the one that highlighted the power of the community in Poynton and the one that showed that all the promises of new facilities and assurances from Tesco were after planning was granted forgotten.  I hope this has answered your question Trixie but Remember this is only my opinion and will not be shared by some of the community . :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 16, 2011, 04:46:02 PM
Miss Marple - in your next communication with our good friends at Cheadle+Marple College, could you ask them to publish the recent Corporation+Committee meeting minutes ?

They all (Audit Committee, Corporation Committee, Estates Committee, Finance & General Committee, Search + Governance Committee, Teaching Committee) used to get published at least 4 times a year, but nothing has been made available at all this year.  See Minutes page (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47).

The last published minutes of the Estates Committee (17th June 2010 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf)) were particularly interesting, so could be worthwhile reading the subsequent ones.

The college are of course obliged legally to make such minutes available, see Instruments + Articles (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/instrument-and-articles.pdf), so I'm sure it's just an oversight rather than a veil of secrecy descending upon any nefarious motives.

Quote
(3) The Corporation shall ensure that a copy of the draft or signed minutes of every meeting of the Corporation, under paragraph (1), shall be placed on the institution’s website, and shall, despite any rules the Corporation may make regarding the archiving of such material, remain on its website for a minimum period of 12 months.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 05:35:33 PM
Miss Marple - in your next communication with our good friends at Cheadle+Marple College, could you ask them to publish the recent Corporation+Committee meeting minutes ?

They all (Audit Committee, Corporation Committee, Estates Committee, Finance & General Committee, Search + Governance Committee, Teaching Committee) used to get published at least 4 times a year, but nothing has been made available at all this year.  See Minutes page (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47).

The last published minutes of the Estates Committee (17th June 2010 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf)) were particularly interesting, so could be worthwhile reading the subsequent ones.

The college are of course obliged legally to make such minutes available, see Instruments + Articles (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/instrument-and-articles.pdf), so I'm sure it's just an oversight rather than a veil of secrecy descending upon any nefarious motives.

Quote
(3) The Corporation shall ensure that a copy of the draft or signed minutes of every meeting of the Corporation, under paragraph (1), shall be placed on the institution’s website, and shall, despite any rules the Corporation may make regarding the archiving of such material, remain on its website for a minimum period of 12 months.

Spot on SGK - the absence of minutes on the college web site is one of the things that will be included in the first letter to the College Principal, however your highlighting of the Instruments + Articles is a useful reference that we had not spotted. Any other suggestions are welcome too.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 05:45:11 PM
Thanks SGK I have already requested those and the reasons why they were not published and awaiting the Principals return.   Fantastic how you have laid it all out Cheers  ;D. Looks like they do have something to hide ??
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 16, 2011, 06:02:32 PM
I'm sure Marple is safe in your hands Miss Marple  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 07:19:08 PM
I'm sure Marple is safe in your hands Miss Marple  ;D
Oh I am not sure about that Johnny Boy but I will do everything I can to oppose a land grabbing and land bagging giant like Tesco from destroying what's left of Marple And I hope I can count on your support  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 07:48:53 PM
I have just been reading back through the Previous  posts on this topic and was shocked to note that The Business forum states that it's SEPTEMBER !! When they are going to get round to discussing the contingency plans if Tesco purchases the land   Now I'm not a butcher, baker or candle stick maker but even I'm shocked at their laissez-faire attitude towards the possible demise of small business in Marple so sorry but I will have to ask!   Business Forum what is your stance on Tesco coming to town and do you REALLY think something as important as this can wait till September  :-\. Just a thought  :-X
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 16, 2011, 07:53:50 PM
I see nothing at all from the estates committee amongst others have published this year.You'd think they would of put out a "pacifier" knowing of the unrest around Marple. Very odd me thinks?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 08:10:58 PM
Another question I would like to ask The Business Forum, if it's not deemed a secret !!  What shops are affiliated to the Business forum ? are they just the ones who would not be affected by Tesco coming to town  because this all seems mighty strange to me, because if I was a shop keeper I would be worried! Very very worried ! :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on July 16, 2011, 08:37:40 PM
I am a forum member and am worried.

I attended the meeting Admin went to on Friday night.

I am following this thread with interest and agree with Admin that we all need to work together to find the facts.

All forum members are listed on the forum website.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 16, 2011, 08:42:01 PM
For what it's worth, I see there's a Freedom Of Information request out there, see this link (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supermarket_plans_in_marple_on_e)

Quote
Dear Stockport Borough Council,

Please could you furnish me with details of correspondence between Tesco, Turner and Townsend, Walsingham Planning, Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College and the council (officers and elected officials) and within the council with regard to plans for a supermarket on the existing college site in Marple?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 08:57:00 PM
Oh your fantastic !  Looks like Mr Corrie took it upon himself to speed things up.  Well at least that's saved one job.  Oh it's coming together nicely, I think you should change your name on the Forum to Inspector Clouseau  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 09:22:43 PM
I have just emailed Mr Corrie in the hope that he will reply and join us in the campaign, here's hoping :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
I am a forum member and am worried.

I attended the meeting Admin went to on Friday night.

I am following this thread with interest and agree with Admin that we all need to work together to find the facts.

All forum members are listed on the forum website.


Of course we will all work together I just need to know what peoples interests are that's why I am asking the questions,  it's just that I am worried as to why The Business Forum isn't worried. But hey I might have got this all wrong and September may be a slip of the pen, here's hoping  :-X
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on July 16, 2011, 10:28:35 PM
Travelling on the bus today I overheard a conversation between two guys about this very subject, from what I could gather they took it as read that Tescos would be taking over and that the Buxton Lane site would be developed and expanded. So...it may be that this is the "word on the street", so to speak.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 16, 2011, 11:02:10 PM
Miss Marple,

I apologise if we've offended you in some way.  The tone of your posts towards the Marple Business Forum are overly aggressive and I'm not sure whyy.

In answer to your questions:
- The MBF does not have a 'laissez-faire attitude' towards the possible development of the Hibbert Lane site.  In fact, a member of the MBF has been monitoring this situation for over 5 years since it first came to light (as can be seen from previous threads on this Forum - the first one appearing 5 years & 4 months ago).

- The MBF currently has 134 members covering a wide spectrum of business classifications and sizes.  All members are listed on the MBF website.

- The MBF has not ever performed in secret.  I don't know where this has come from.

- The September meeting was chosen to discuss this issue in particular for pratical reasons.  The August meeting is normally poorly attented due to other commitments (holidays, staff holidays, children off school, buying periods, company year ends, etc).  It was felt that a subject this important should be discussed at a time convient to as large a portion of the membership as possible.  Also, by holding the meeting in September it gives time for clarifications and facts to be sort so that the debate can be held from a posistion of knowledge not rumour.

- Regarding the MBF's stance on this issue, as previously stated we are waiting until the facts are known and a debate within the organisation can be held before making a public declaration of our collective thoughts.  Clearly individual members have their own positions but we are not currently able to give a collective opinion for all 134 members.

I will be suggesting at the next meeting (in August) that a representitive of the MBF sits on the group that Admin mentioned in an earlier post (Mark - I trust this would be acceptable and welcomed by the group).  We can then co-operate to give a common message, strategy and course of action.  Furthermore, we can throw the weight of our membership, resources and sources of information behind the group (which, without wanting to be immodest, are considerable).

There are a huge number of benefits to being an organisation with a wide variety and large numbrer of different members - unfortunately that sometimes means we can't move as quickly as someone acting alone.  However, rest assured that once we are in a position to act you will be pleased by the speed, efficiency and strength that we show.

Please don't take our current position as indifference to the issue - but we must follow the rules of the organisation.  We can't speak for our members without first asking our members their opinions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 16, 2011, 11:14:36 PM
I thought the Buxton Lane campus was where Tescos were going to build us a new swimming pool?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 11:30:29 PM
You have known for five years and four months ?  Well I bet the local community didn't because I didn't know and neither did members of my family who live directly opposite  the college   So if The Business forum has been aware that there was a possibility that Tesco could be bagging land why oh why didn't you try to inform the community. Because it would appear that Mr Corrie who is at this moment seeking information under the freedom of information Act didn't know.   I am sorry if you feel my manner is aggressive but I think ANGER and CONFUSION would sum up my feelings right now !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 16, 2011, 11:35:42 PM
Miss Marple - this very forum has been discussing it for over 5 years ! 

See http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1003.0 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1003.0)



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 11:49:45 PM
Yes I know there have been rumours on this site, but we are lay people. I am talking about The Business Forum monitoring the situation for five years and not doing some digging, they must know what happens in Business especially where Tesco is concerned.  Its just a shock to me and I am now concerned that it's all been agreed and it's been left too late . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 17, 2011, 12:27:42 AM
why didn't you try to inform the community

We didn't try and inform the community because we were told about the issue BY the community - it was first picked up off this very forum.

Of course we have consistently been seeking more up to date information, clarifications, information and 'digging' - that is what I meant by monitoring.

Where has this idea of a developer 'bagging land' come from?  This is something that hasn't been mentioned before.

You have answered your own question in your last post. Until recently the only thing that was known was the college wished to sell the site to raise funds.  All talk previously of developers was rumour (to quote) with no basis in fact.  Only now that the college have started talking to potential developers is there any truth to them and something to act on.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 17, 2011, 07:10:28 AM
If you do a search for "Tesco" from the front page of the forum you will find 27 topics going as far back as September 2005. Some of them are relevant to the situation today and others are not. Over the years the rumours have changed very little and I understand have been denied by the college in local newspapers (I don't know if anyone has the means to locate any old newspaper articles relating to this but I know that the Stockport Times / Express are monitoring this thread with interest - perhaps you folks can help with that? )

Here is a quote from 2006 for example:
As Peter mentioned below, he forwarded this thread to our Local Councillors. He has received the following reply from Councillor Shan Alexander:

Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College
The leisure Centres are closing to the public with effect from 31 December 2006. With membership and bookings declining in the face of increased competition it has not been possible to cover the cost of running the leisure Centres for a number of years. This decision has not been taken lightly. Given that the core business of the college is the provision of 16 to 19 education the college has reluctantly decided to take this decision to close this facility to the public. The Leisure centres will be still available to the students. There are very new and excellent facilities available at Marple Hall School.

Sale of land
Cheadle and Marple 6th form College has no intention of selling any land at present. They have asked for a feasibility study on the buildings at both sites. This is to look at the viability or otherwise of running a college on one site and to look at building a college of the future, fit for purpose to achieve the highest standards for students, teacher and all concerned. There has been no planning application sent to the planners at the council.

There is remarkably little outward change in the situation since that time, we don't really know any more hard facts at all but the situation must have moved on. The college have done quite a good job of keeping a lid on it so far but the issue has been festering away and the time now seems right to prick it. That things have come to a head  ;) are in no small way down to your anger and frustration Miss Marple but there is no benefit in alienating local organisations that are capable of getting behind you in a big way once they get moving.

Regarding MBF attending future meetings of the group of residents now also getting up a head of steam: I don't think that will be a problem as there were 5 members of Marple Business Forum and 3 from Marple Civic Society at the meeting on Friday. None were representing the views of those organisations but will obviously feed back what is going on to their members. In fact a key aim of this group is to gather information for the Business Forum to consider at their meeting in September and for the Civic Society to do the same.

So, lets not spend our time bickering and falling out on here but pool information and pull together to discover exactly where things are up to and what we can do about it as a community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 17, 2011, 09:17:57 AM
I see that as well as the previously mentioned FOI request (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supermarket_plans_in_marple_on_e) served on the council, another has been served on the college itself.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/building_of_supermarket_on_exist (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/building_of_supermarket_on_exist)

Quote
Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,

Please could you furnish me with details of correspondence between supermarket chains, Turner and Townsend, Walsingham Planning, Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College staff, Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College governors, and within the college with regard to plans
for a supermarket on the existing college site in Marple?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie.

I wonder if it's worth someone raising one regarding the college's understanding of the covenant in place after they inherited the land from the old "Marple Ridge" college?  As it was generously donated by the people of Marple many years ago, I suspect there could be some clause in there expressly discouraging/banning the "garage sale" of the land to house builders or commercial interests.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 09:22:27 AM
Admin I have emailed you two Freedom of information requests that Mr Corrie has sent to both the college and SMBC requesting information  (if anyone is interested you can click on the link provided by SGK and you can follow what's happening by registering on the site).  Admin I have read with intrest your reply and disagree totally, the reason being is that even Mr Corrie has tried to gain information by submitting an application for the right to freedom of information to SMBC and from what I can see the Business Forum is still waiting to have a meeting even though if represents hundreds of small businesses in and around Marple  I have not fallen out with anyone but I feel that people are delusional with their obsession about having meetings after meetings. Do you all really think that Tesco will be shaking in their boots if The Business Forum have a meeting !   If I was representing Business in Marple I would have had a contingency plan 5yrs ago when I got even the slightest hint of Tesco sniffing around  These are Business people ,mixing with other Business people, they must know more about what can happen to their lively hoods when someone like Tesco elbows their way in than anyone on this site.
I feel that I have posted enough on this subject so like everyone else I intend now  to just follow it with intrest  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 09:41:56 AM
You will be missed  :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 17, 2011, 10:48:26 AM
Well said Mark.

Regarding MBF attending future meetings of the group of residents now also getting up a head of steam: I don't think that will be a problem as there were 5 members of Marple Business Forum and 3 from Marple Civic Society at the meeting on Friday.

I wasn't aware of this, but it is positive news - it would appear that the MBF potentially have a working group on the issue right there. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 12:54:21 PM
Yes I know there have been rumours on this site, but we are lay people. I am talking about The Business Forum monitoring the situation for five years and not doing some digging, they must know what happens in Business especially where Tesco is concerned.  Its just a shock to me and I am now concerned that it's all been agreed and it's been left too late .  

Miss M, I think you need to step back for a moment. The business forum is no more clued up than anyone else.

I understand that the current situation is that the college has two sites, one of which it wants to monetarise. One of the ways to do this MAY be to sell the site to a supermarket chain.

You need to find out the reality of the situation rather than make things up and filling in gaps yourself and perhaps others need to stop taking things as fact from what is overheard on a bus.

If some public meeting can be arranged, establish the real facts and create a line in the sand, for which the opposition can be drawn. I think the stance of refusing to debate with Tesco themselves is both jumping the gun & not going to achieve anything

I'm not a business forum member in Marple but am elsewhere. These groups are not secretive but members do pay to join and they hope to be more powerful as a group rather than individuals. They should be treated as an ally rather than a group to be attacked for being supposedly a secret cult.    
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
I am a new member but have been following this post before I joined. What I want to now is why the business forum didn't know about Tesco when at the start of this topic someone says that Littlewoods butcher have a pertition going and that was before June. And they are members of the Business forum I checked
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 17, 2011, 02:10:24 PM
At this stage sending letters to the college and others associated with the proposed purchase is pointless,  even if they do respond to your requests the information will be of little or no importance.
It would appear that Tesco are on the home straight and the good people of Marple who have genuine concerns and objections to the proposed purchase are not even off the starting blocks and in persuing this course of action alone will waste what little time if any we have left.

If Tesco wants to BUY the land and the college wants to SELL the land then there is nothing that anybody can do to prevent it.

If the sale goes ahead even without planning permission for a supermarket then there are only 2 possible outcomes both of which in my view will be bad for Marple.

1. Planning permission for the supermarket is granted even after a lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. It will however have minor compromises attached to the original proposals which will sereve to enable the people of Marple to claim victory but more importantly promote customer loyalty to the new store. However the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

2. Planning permission for the supermarket is declined due to the lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. Tesco still own the land and buildings and after many years of neglect and vandalism (bowling green, jolly sailor, anyone) the idea of a nice new supermarket doesn't seem that bad after all and the very same people that opposed the original application will be begging Tesco to redevelop the site. Again the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

I hope I have demonstrated that the fight right now isn't about the plans for a supermarket it is more about trying to deter Tesco from buying the site and a couple of letters here and there requesting information just isn't going to achieve that. What is needed is more direct action which involves the community as a WHOLE which will send a clear message to Tesco BEFORE THE SITE IS PURCHASED!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 02:21:54 PM
At this stage sending letters to the college and others associated with the proposed purchase is pointless,  even if they do respond to your requests the information will be of little or no importance.
It would appear that Tesco are on the home straight and the good people of Marple who have genuine concerns and objections to the proposed purchase are not even off the starting blocks and in persuing this course of action alone will waste what little time if any we have left.

If Tesco wants to BUY the land and the college wants to SELL the land then there is nothing that anybody can do to prevent it.

If the sale goes ahead even without planning permission for a supermarket then there are only 2 possible outcomes both of which in my view will be bad for Marple.

1. Planning permission for the supermarket is granted even after a lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. It will however have minor compromises attached to the original proposals which will sereve to enable the people of Marple to claim victory but more importantly promote customer loyalty to the new store. However the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

2. Planning permission for the supermarket is declined due to the lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. Tesco still own the land and buildings and after many years of neglect and vandalism (bowling green, jolly sailor, anyone) the idea of a nice new supermarket doesn't seem that bad after all and the very same people that opposed the original application will be begging Tesco to redevelop the site. Again the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

I hope I have demonstrated that the fight right now isn't about the plans for a supermarket it is more about trying to deter Tesco from buying the site and a couple of letters here and there requesting information just isn't going to achieve that. What is needed is more direct action which involves the community as a WHOLE which will send a clear message to Tesco BEFORE THE SITE IS PURCHASED!!

A few things quoted as fact there, is that definitely the case?

I think you analysis given the FACT that Tesco are definitely buying the plot is correct.

May I suggest, if these FACTS are right that the best way to fight Tesco would be to boycott their store. Activate the whole of Marple his them in the pocket. Where possible, shop locally, encourage the business forum to have a late Thursday where all the shops open til 9.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 17, 2011, 02:46:57 PM
At this stage sending letters to the college and others associated with the proposed purchase is pointless,  even if they do respond to your requests the information will be of little or no importance.

Not sure I agree, having read the advice on the Tescopoly "Every Little Hurts" site, who seem to be veterans of such skirmishes.

Take a look at I’ve heard a rumour that a new supermarket will open in my area (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=714) on there.  There's some interesting success stories (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=392&Itemid=123) on there too, before anyone starts thinking Marple Tesco is a "done deal".

I wonder at what stage we should register our campaign on their site?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 17, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
Quote
Activate the whole of Marple hit them in the pocket.

That would in my view be a little too late, it already seems difficult to activate/unite the residents of Marple to take action. Already groups have formed with different opinions on this website as to which is the best course of action if we are to believe these rumours are FACTual.

Quote
shop locally

People will be shopping locally at Tesco (keep up man)

Quote
have a late Thursday where all the shops open til 9

Not much use is Tesco decide to open 24hr which many do.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 03:03:45 PM
I would register Now don't wait any longer can you do it SGK
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 03:14:13 PM
I no !!!!!  But I just could not help it.   What a fantastic post Sky Guy it would be my opinion for what it's worth both you and SGK  are on the ball and can see the outcome if we continue to avoid direct action.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 03:20:12 PM
Quote
Activate the whole of Marple hit them in the pocket.

That would in my view be a little too late, it already seems difficult to activate/unite the residents of Marple to take action. Already groups have formed with different opinions on this website as to which is the best course of action if we are to believe these rumours are FACTual.

Quote
shop locally

People will be shopping locally at Tesco (keep up man)

Quote
have a late Thursday where all the shops open til 9

Not much use is Tesco decide to open 24hr which many do.



It's hardly too late, the College is still in hte hands of the college with the campus being used as intended now and in the next academic year.  

I suggest the shopping locally in existing shops so that Tesco's market research tells them of strong existing competition. Opening at times where Tesco may feel they have a USP will ward them off further.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
Each time I visit this topic I see at least 6 or 7 guests viewing the Tesco topic.  Can I ask if you would register on the forum and enter in to the debate if Tesco coming to Marple will effect you or if you have tried to stop Tesco moving into your area and failed or succeeded.   Your views, help, advice, guidance support (for or against ) would be very welcome.  So please become part of the debate  ??? We need you !!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 17, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
ADMIN

May I suggest that if another meeting is held it is advertised on this site so that anyone wishing to attend is able to do so.

As I stated in a previous post the outcome of all of this will only be positive IF the community as a WHOLE is involved, informed and most important acts as one.

Regards

SkyGuy
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 04:36:13 PM
I agree we must ALL get together to oppose this at a large meeting open to all concerned residents mainly the ones who will be directly effected by any developments on the site.  MBF are invited when a venue is arranged if they would like to take up the offer ! At least we all be aware of the action plan ! This needs now to move up a gear   Admin would do you want me to see if we could book a room at the Library OR do you want to do this.  I have also contacted the campain in site thanks SGK to see what advice they have from experiences
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 17, 2011, 05:36:11 PM
Admin would do you want me to see if we could book a room at the Library OR do you want to do this.

Welcome back Miss M, you carry on and arrange a meeting as soon as you're ready, don't let me slow you down.

ADMIN May I suggest that if another meeting is held it is advertised on this site so that anyone wishing to attend is able to do so.

Of course Sky Guy. Any public meetings arranged will obviously be publicised on this site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 05:52:06 PM
Will do , and will start raising public awareness tomorrow  :o. Over and Out   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 06:03:38 PM
Hi I am just checking to see if the business forum had answer my question.  Admin do you mean that you are going to meetings that are not open to the public ? Why ? sky guy asked for the next one to be a public one   ? And why are you not supporting miss marple getting a public netting
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 17, 2011, 06:22:30 PM
Having had a break from the forum for a while, I was interested to drop in (well it's too wet to walk the dog!), and read this lively thread. Most points of view seem to be well represented, although I do strongly agree with Harry, who seems to be a bit of a lone voice:

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

Both of the college buildings, inherited from Marple Ridge School, are leftovers from the worst period of school building, in the mid-twentieth century.  The College has done its best with its limited means to improve them, but honestly the best thing they could do is just to knock them both down and build a really good, up-to-date, energy-efficient purpose-built college which we could all be proud of and which our kids would queue up to attend, instead of getting on the bus to Aquinas.

Unfortunately, we live in straightened times, just in case anyone hasn't noticed, and I doubt whether there are any significant capital funds available from the Skills Funding Agency at the moment.  (Aquinas got under the wire in the nick of time, just before the demise of the late and unlamented Learning and Skills Council). So selling off the Hibbert Lane site for 12 million would probably do the job. 

One final and unrelated point, for Miss Marple: there is no need to panic about this: the wheels of the planning process, and of college governance,  grind exceedingly slowly.  The Business Forum will no doubt consider the matter in September and there is no reason to rush that through in August.  Better to have all members present and come to a proper and considered consensus.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 17, 2011, 07:03:06 PM
Jonnyboy, I believe you are referring to Post 35.

For the sake of clarification, the petition that was in Littlewoods Butchers (which appeared at the beginning of June) was not organised by the MBF. Nor was it to the best of our knowledge organised by any MBF member.  It is not known where this petition came from nor what has happened to it since.

It came to light at the begining of June, through a number of sources, that there were reports that the college were now talking with a number of potential developers (not just the chain reffered to in this thread).

As Mark said:
The college have done quite a good job of keeping a lid on it so far but the issue has been festering away and the time now seems right to prick it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 07:22:39 PM
Having had a break from the forum for a while, I was interested to drop in (well it's too wet to walk the dog!), and read this lively thread. Most points of view seem to be well represented, although I do strongly agree with Harry, who seems to be a bit of a lone voice:

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

Both of the college buildings, inherited from Marple Ridge School, are leftovers from the worst period of school building, in the mid-twentieth century.  The College has done its best with its limited means to improve them, but honestly the best thing they could do is just to knock them both down and build a really good, up-to-date, energy-efficient purpose-built college which we could all be proud of and which our kids would queue up to attend, instead of getting on the bus to Aquinas.

Unfortunately, we live in straightened times, just in case anyone hasn't noticed, and I doubt whether there are any significant capital funds available from the Skills Funding Agency at the moment.  (Aquinas got under the wire in the nick of time, just before the demise of the late and unlamented Learning and Skills Council). So selling off the Hibbert Lane site for 12 million would probably do the job. 

One final and unrelated point, for Miss Marple: there is no need to panic about this: the wheels of the planning process, and of college governance,  grind exceedingly slowly.  The Business Forum will no doubt consider the matter in September and there is no reason to rush that through in August.  Better to have all members present and come to a proper and considered consensus.

I do agree that things aren't as urgent as suggested. The college will close down and important "lesson planning" will take place over the next 8 weeks.

I doubt if the building is really that difficult to operate a college from, but I do accept that the college is looking to cash in their chips in terms of realising the value of a building they no longer use to capacity.

I'm not sure where you get £12m from, without planning permission, the site is only worth the value of the buildings that stands on the site.

The worry is that as a college, the council get's nothing. As a commercial premises, the rates income could keep the council in self awareness officers for years.

I think everyone needs to accept that if the college wants to cash in, it's not going to remain a school. It's going to be a "something else" as it would help if we're clear as to what 'something else' is acceptable and what is not. I feel a large supermarket will decimate the other businesses in the town and whilst there is already many empty units (high rents & high business rates as much to blame), a Tesco would create a ghost town with sporadic charity shops.

I think in clarifying the objection you need to realise a few things. The individual nimby moans of Miss M or the Duke & Duchess of Fame are not going to count for much. Real objections on traffic levels etc will be more relevant.

Also the business forum should campaign to get rid of parking charges in Marple. Putting expanding foam in machines works well. As Tesco lands, they will bring free parking on top of flexible opening. Businesses should face this head on and offer something similar.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 17, 2011, 07:57:20 PM
As suggested by one of your members in an earlier posting (#116) I've added a further FOI (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg) to my collection (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/neil_corrie).

Quote
Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,

I believe there are restrictive covenants relating to college campus land, in both Marple and Cheadle.

Can you provide me with the following information under the Freedom of Information Act?

1. When were these covenants applied to the college campus land?

2. Who applied them to the college campus land?

3. What is specified within these covenants and why?

4. How would these convenants impact any sale or change of use of the land?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 08:02:23 PM
Hi Neil. Glad you have decided to join the Forum.  I sent your Freedom of Information requests to Admin who if you OK it can be printed on here now  Great Stuff
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 17, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
Each time I visit this topic I see at least 6 or 7 guests viewing the Tosca topic.  Can I ask if you would register on the forum and enter in to the debate if Tosca coming to Marple will effect you or if you have tried to stop Tosca moving into your area and failed or succeeded.  Your views, help, advice, guidance support (for or against ) would be very welcome.  So please become part of the debate ??? We need you !!
             If the coop were to build a larger supermarket on that site would one or two of you still want to object
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 18, 2011, 12:05:29 PM
I'm not sure where you get £12m from, without planning permission, the site is only worth the value of the buildings that stands on the site.
The £12m is from post no 80.  I don't know how realistic it is, and obviously such a valuation would depend on planning consent for a supermarket.

Quote
The worry is that as a college, the council get's nothing.
I believe colleges pay business rates.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 18, 2011, 12:22:32 PM
If you’ve not seen this – its worth watching – a DISPATCHES DOCUMENTARY RE TESCO

Tesco - The Supermarket that's eating Britain - Dispatches Channel 4 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1381639014893922585&hl=en-GB#)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bluebelly on July 18, 2011, 12:44:12 PM
is it just tescos or is it any supermarket .
god help us if the spar and premier buy the land..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 01:03:49 PM
A local action group has now been formed surprisingly enough called  ' MARPLE IN ACTION '. The contact details will be circulated later this week.  The group comprises of concerned local residents who want to find out what the land at the college is being sold for and to who, and most importantly we want all local residents who will be effected by any development to know  that changes are coming no matter who is purchasing the college.   The local press are going to work alongside ' MARPLE IN ACTION'. And hopefully run  a story next week, what's happening at Stepping hill  Hospital is hot news this week.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on July 18, 2011, 02:42:06 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 03:29:56 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.

I am sure that you are right, some members of the MBF may support this, I have no idea who are for and who are against.  Marple in Action is for residents who will be directly effected by developments on the site ie traffic, noise and light pollution and damage to the environment  It would be my view that if you are passionate about a supermarket giant moving in to Marple,is to start your own group in favour of them moving into the area.  I am no fool and I am fully aware that some people who do not live near the site would be in favour, but that's not what his group is about .  So good luck if you are considering  starting your in favour group
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 07:03:10 PM
Each time I visit this topic I see at least 6 or 7 guests viewing the Tosca topic.  Can I ask if you would register on the forum and enter in to the debate if Tosca coming to Marple will effect you or if you have tried to stop Tosca moving into your area and failed or succeeded.  Your views, help, advice, guidance support (for or against ) would be very welcome.  So please become part of the debate ??? We need you !!
            If the coop were to build a larger supermarket on that site would one or two of you still want to object
Yes ! Even if they offered me twice the divvy !    It's about change in the infer structure , additional traffic, loss of small shops, where else could I get a wimberry tart from if Archers were forced to close.  I'm a veggie but Marple without Littlewoods !  UNTHINKABLE  :o.  If you want it in the Bridge it's yours !  Hey the slogan maybe.    TAKE IT TO THE BRIDGE   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 18, 2011, 07:56:25 PM
There is already a supermarket giant in Marple. Its called the Co-op. They probably sell more meat than the two local butchers and more veg than the local greengrocers.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 08:20:15 PM
There is already a supermarket giant in Marple. Its called the Co-op. They probably sell more meat than the two local butchers and more veg than the local greengrocers.
The coop was in Marple even before my favourite shops !   Now if you think the coop is a supermarket giant   Harry !  In the words of the great song !   " You Ain't Seen Nothing yet  b b b BABY " ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 18, 2011, 09:26:07 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.

               Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing   there three  supermarkets in the grove asda sainsburys marks sparks not a ghost town for shops there .miss marple would apear to be against change in marple we had [ seventeen windows still waiting for reply back from i think mr stunnel on this ] Dan bank fantastic improve ment and now tesco . . o yes the wall on strines that was built and just finished a few months ago .i think miss marple had a go at that to .     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 18, 2011, 09:52:47 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not take such an aggressive tone with other users or you'll get yourself banned. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 18, 2011, 10:27:05 PM
All I'm trying to get across to my fellow forumite's is that you cannot really grasp the problems and negative issues which go hand in hand with a large store like Tesco opening in a rural setting. I previously lived near a tesco store and the noise from lorries re-supplying the store 24hours a day and general disruption in the area was unbearable. Coupled along with the fact that my property devalued and my travel time to work almost doubled, and the fact is that I didn't even live in the immediate vicinity. So I would simply say to all my fellow forumites to take heed.  ???




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 18, 2011, 10:48:09 PM
I see that minutes for each of the Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Corporation and Committee meetings have been published today.
http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47)

The only committee whose minutes are not published are those of the Estates Committee.  Most curious.  Regular readers of this forum will remember how the last Estates Committee set of minutes  (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf) were of particular interest.
Quote
STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
ESTATES STRATEGY
A meeting of Finance & General Committee was convened to run concurrently with that of Estates Committee whilst the Estates Strategy was presented, see highlights below.

Stephen Coulthard (Project Manager Turner & Townsend Consultants), Peter Scarborough (Bond Bryant Architects) and Mark Krassowski (Walsingham Planning) joined the meeting and delivered a presentation on the Estates Strategy (copy of Estates Strategy Final Presentation circulated for information – confidential on grounds of commercial sensitivity).

Governors had already received a pack containing the full Property Strategy from Turner and Townsend and a Report from Walsingham Planning (both deemed confidential on grounds of commercial sensitivity). SCD took Governors through the presentation, initially covering the funding led approach and the space needs for each campus. PSH and MKI contributed in their particular areas. The Cheadle campus was approximately the right size, but the Marple campus was oversized for the curriculum delivered. In terms of the suitability and condition of the existing accommodation, the 2000 build at Cheadle was best, followed by Buxton Lane, then the remainder of the Cheadle campus, with the worst being Hibbert Lane.

And please, let's not forget Turner+Townsend Consultant's speciality : Tesco - store development programme (http://www.turnerandtownsend.com/859/_11127.html).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 18, 2011, 11:20:34 PM
Further to my last post, the college advises me that the Estates Committe no longer meets.  Such activities now fall under the remit of the Finance + General Committee.  Which is published (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47), the brief section on property development is pasted below.

Quote
14 STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
CCY reported that a meeting was planned in the near future with the Chief Executive of the Local Authority. This would lead to a greater crystalisation of the options.  Principalship  confirmed that following this it  would be in a position to deliver a firm presentation  with a clear and financially sustainable option for progress to the upcoming strategic planning meeting with Governors and senior managers. The Acting Chair reminded the Principalship of the importance to the Governors of seeing a way forward that was realistic and affordable
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 18, 2011, 11:34:33 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.

               Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing   there three  supermarkets in the grove asda sainsburys marks sparks not a ghost town for shops there .miss marple would apear to be against change in marple we had [ seventeen windows still waiting for reply back from i think mr stunnel on this ] Dan bank fantastic improve ment and now tesco . . o yes the wall on strines that was built and just finished a few months ago .i think miss marple had a go at that to .     

There is a little bit of crying wolf by miss m but i do think the antis have a point here.

True hazel grove has aldi m&s sains and asda. That said, i dont see any independant food shops tbough and it is generally tAtty although i confess not reAlly knowing what is was like before the sains opened.

My issue with a large supermarket is really the effect on existing traders. A tesco will benefit from free parking, cheap rates and economies of scale. It will also shift the emphasis of the shopping area away from the precinct. The coop does have an unfair advantage but its still part of the existing shopping area.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 01:06:43 AM
Awh Amazon !  That's nasty !  If your going to call me get it right !  You forgot Seventeen Windows  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 19, 2011, 06:04:13 AM
Further to my last post, the college advises me that the Estates Committe no longer meets.  Such activities now fall under the remit of the Finance + General Committee.  Which is published (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47), the brief section on property development is pasted below.

Quote
14 STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
CCY reported that a meeting was planned in the near future with the Chief Executive of the Local Authority. This would lead to a greater crystalisation of the options.  Principalship  confirmed that following this it  would be in a position to deliver a firm presentation  with a clear and financially sustainable option for progress to the upcoming strategic planning meeting with Governors and senior managers. The Acting Chair reminded the Principalship of the importance to the Governors of seeing a way forward that was realistic and affordable

The meeting referred to with the LA CE is very important and it's possible that the college have held off publishing these minute until after it has taken place. I would suggest campaigners try to find out if this meeting has occurred. If it hasn't there is an opportunity to make the council's CE aware of the community's objections and remind him of the first 10 minutes of the Dispatches programme. If it has occurred then maybe a record of it can be obtained via the council using the FOI act.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on July 19, 2011, 12:04:11 PM
Amazon wrote: 
Quote
Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing

That may be the case in Glossop which has a strong set of well known and independent shops. People travel for miles for instance to use Mettricks the Butchers. Alternatively you could point to Whaley Bridge and the Tesco effect there. It is also possible that the Whaley bridge Tesco has impacted on New Mills which will shortly have tumbleweeds blowing down the road!! The number of shop closures in New Mills is gathering pace and I for one cannot see a way back for it.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 19, 2011, 12:56:53 PM
Amazon wrote: 
Quote
Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing

That may be the case in Glossop which has a strong set of well known and independent shops. People travel for miles for instance to use Mettricks the Butchers. Alternatively you could point to Whaley Bridge and the Tesco effect there. It is also possible that the Whaley bridge Tesco has impacted on New Mills which will shortly have tumbleweeds blowing down the road!! The number of shop closures in New Mills is gathering pace and I for one cannot see a way back for it.

A very good point, and a reminder of the subtle and unpredictable nature of the supermarket effect.   It is assumed by many on this thread that a big supermarket can only have a detrimental effect on local businesses.  It would certainly have an effect, but the effect in some cases may be positive.  The Hibbert Lane site of camsfc is a very short walk from Market Street - closer, for example, than the Whaley Bridge Tesco is to the local shops there. I can see people driving to a big supermarket in Hibbert Lane, parking for free, hitting the supermarket and then walking down to visit specific local shops and/or cafes.

It's the Co-op that needs to worry about this, of course. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 01:24:35 PM
I know what your saying Dave but I was speaking to a friend today who lives near a large supermarket (coop is a baby in comparison ) she didn't understand what all the fuss was about, she says that she works odd hours and last night at 1am  did a 'one stop shop' and purchased everything she needed including paint, knitting wool , food , and all her holiday clothes and suit cases and even a book for the journey she thinks it's great ! But sadly she knows no different ! But having said that there is nowhere else for her to shop as the small shops have all gone and her shopping precinct is mainly charity shops   She thinks it's great when she visits me I have to pull her away from all the small specialist shops in Marple she's like a child in a sweet factory   I hope my grandchildren have the opportunity of choosing/ordering a book from a book shop, sitting in the street in the sunshine having a coffee, choosing a pen from a stationary shop or a special card, using their pocket Money to go into a toy shop and buy a little something, going into a record shop and choosing a CD , then calling in for some fish and chips. And being able to go into a local baker and purchase true FRESH bread not some concoction that's been re heated   All fantastic stuff that we take for granted and have enjoyed I am sure for many years  So I say long may it continue !  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 19, 2011, 01:56:49 PM
Awh Amazon !  That's nasty !  If your going to call me get it right !  You forgot Seventeen Windows  ;)
          I Have voted against it on your poll  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 02:04:58 PM
Awh Amazon !  That's nasty !  If your going to call me get it right !  You forgot Seventeen Window's ;)
         I Have voted against it on your poll ;)
. It's not my poll !  But cheers Amazon !  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 19, 2011, 04:09:21 PM
I have heard this afternoon that the College Govenors met last night to consider bids for the land. Bids were received from Sainsbury's, Tescos and Waitrose. The two being consider are Sainsbury's and Tesco as Waitrose did not bid high enough.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 19, 2011, 04:15:31 PM
Waitrose did not bid high enough.

Phew, that's a relief.  If Mrs Dave was let loose in Waitrose we'd soon be in financial meltdown!   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on July 19, 2011, 05:01:26 PM
Waitrose did not bid high enough.

Phew, that's a relief.  If Mrs Dave was let loose in Waitrose we'd soon be in financial meltdown!   ;D

Haha that was my first thought..

(obviously not about Mrs Dave!)

Good Job M&S weren't interested too..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on July 19, 2011, 05:02:13 PM
Dave, I think you are only reading the part of my post about Glossop and New Mills that you feel supports a positive contribution by the potential arrival of Tesco in Marple. This was not my intention and I think it is rare that any local shops benefit from their arrival. I would not want to see Tesco in Marple as I firmly believe that a Tesco would mean the closure of more locla shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 05:03:45 PM
Dave, I think you are only reading the part of my post about Glossop and New Mills that you feel supports a positive contribution by the potential arrival of Tesco in Marple. This was not my intention and I think it is rare that any local shops benefit from their arrival. I would not want to see Tesco in Marple as I firmly believe that a Tesco would mean the closure of more locla shops.
Mulligans has a for sale sign up and that just for starters !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 19, 2011, 05:17:37 PM
Amazon wrote: 
Quote
Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing

That may be the case in Glossop which has a strong set of well known and independent shops. People travel for miles for instance to use Mettricks the Butchers. Alternatively you could point to Whaley Bridge and the Tesco effect there. It is also possible that the Whaley bridge Tesco has impacted on New Mills which will shortly have tumbleweeds blowing down the road!! The number of shop closures in New Mills is gathering pace and I for one cannot see a way back for it.

A very good point, and a reminder of the subtle and unpredictable nature of the supermarket effect.   It is assumed by many on this thread that a big supermarket can only have a detrimental effect on local businesses.  It would certainly have an effect, but the effect in some cases may be positive.  The Hibbert Lane site of camsfc is a very short walk from Market Street - closer, for example, than the Whaley Bridge Tesco is to the local shops there. I can see people driving to a big supermarket in Hibbert Lane, parking for free, hitting the supermarket and then walking down to visit specific local shops and/or cafes.

It's the Co-op that needs to worry about this, of course. 

I think you have a rather rose tinted view of how lazy people can be, walking went out with the arc for some. Look at a school gate these days.

The key is three-fold. Parking for free, rates and opening hours. Local businesses could have a late evening and they should organise themselves to get the public to support a late opening. They need to get the council to remove parking charges. They also need to overcome the business rates issue, Coop pay £150/sqm compared to a precinct shop paying £260/sqm.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 19, 2011, 05:27:06 PM
Dave, I think you are only reading the part of my post about Glossop and New Mills that you feel supports a positive contribution by the potential arrival of Tesco in Marple. This was not my intention and I think it is rare that any local shops benefit from their arrival. I would not want to see Tesco in Marple as I firmly believe that a Tesco would mean the closure of more locla shops.
Mulligans has a for sale sign up and that just for starters !

Not sure you can blame that on Tesco.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on July 19, 2011, 05:52:08 PM

               Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing   
You clearly don't spend as much time as I do in Glossop. There are empty shops and others which are not doing very well at all and are on the verge of going out of business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: waste_knot on July 19, 2011, 08:03:00 PM
Hello, I've just joined the forum, having been pointed here by someone raising an FOI on SMBC re Tesco developments. I'm sorry, I haven't had the time to read this entire thread, so apologies if any of this has been said before. It seems to me that there is an urgent need for action and planning on this issue. I'm not suggesting we start a "no" campaign group, but as a resident of Marple I think we must do our best to ensure that the town centre is protected from unfair competition, and that land in Council ownership is used for community benefit, not for private profit.

Is there any organised group dealing with this issue, e.g. the business forum? If so, please get in touch as I'd like to help, if not, let's get something started! The disposal of council land must be subject to council control, so let's start with the councillors and SMBC: first and foremost to ensure any development of the Hibbert Lane site benefits Marple. If the land does get sold, then we must get thoroughly involved in the planning process.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 08:05:06 PM
Spoke to Mr Hubert (finance) Ridge College Marple who says that he will have to await the principles return from London before he can enter into talks with 'Marple in Action'.  Press running an article on the proposed sell out next week.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 08:07:59 PM
Marple in Action are in have started  an organised campaign please send me a personal email and I will inform you of details of the next meeting
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 19, 2011, 08:36:55 PM
Now that the intended land-grab by Tesco/Sainsburys is finally public knowledge, I've posted a FOI request to get minutes of that recent meeting between college staff and our local council.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tesco_or_sainsburys_buying_up_co (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tesco_or_sainsburys_buying_up_co)

Quote
Dear Stockport Borough Council,

It is now public knowledge that the local college (Cheadle + Marple
Sixth Form College) intend to sell their existing campus in Marple
to either Tesco or Sainsburys.

Further to my earlier request (ref 4521) could you please furnish
me with minutes of the meeting recently held between the council's
Chief Executive and representatives of Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form
College).

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie

If anyone feels the need to submit any FOIs themselves, do note that both Tesco and Sainsburys are subject to FOI rules and have to respond in a timely manner, due to the fact that they often run an opticians/pharmacy.

Quote
Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 09:18:26 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on July 19, 2011, 09:25:18 PM
maybe he hasnt ?

forgive me if it suggests on here he has
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 09:44:07 PM
Is the Busisness forum planning to move their contingency meeting forward ?  Just a thought  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 19, 2011, 09:46:49 PM
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on July 19, 2011, 10:16:21 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\
Not quite sure then why when the staff at the college were told of the plans they were asked to keep quiet about it until after the local council elections. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 19, 2011, 10:18:48 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\

Strange indeed, their own minutes of 1st March 2011 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/F&G%2001_03_11m%20Section%20A.pdf) having specifically said "a meeting was planned in the near future with the Chief Executive of the Local Authority".  Oh well, FOI submitted nevertheless, nothing ventured, nothing gained.....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 10:34:25 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\
Not quite sure then why when the staff at the college were told of the plans they were asked to keep quiet about it until after the local council elections. 
Yes that's right Mable  that's where I got the information from, but sadly it was given to me after the local elections
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 19, 2011, 10:43:17 PM
The disposal of council land must be subject to council control,

This is not council land.  Sixth form colleges are autonomous bodies, independent of local authorities.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 10:46:21 PM
I have just re emailed all our local councillors to ask as to why they were not up to speed on this even when they had been alerted months ago.  Every councillor gave me assurances that the land could only be used for housing  :-\. You couldn't make it up could you.   Andrew Stunnel has not as yet replyed to the email I sent him 8 weeks ago.   There is an Area Council Meeting I think at the end of the month  I hope this fiasco is high on the agenda
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 11:04:57 PM
Is Marple College a member of the Business Forum ?  A little birdie just told me it is  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 12:08:59 AM
Is Marple College a member of the Business Forum ?  A little birdie just told me it is  ???

Take a look at the list on the web Shiela, they have a list of members.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 20, 2011, 07:28:39 AM
Just had a thought folks on all these major stores moving to marple,tesco, asda, morrisons have been mentioned. If the good people of marple don't put a stop to this we'll probably end up with a retail park on the roman lakes!!! Woe is me!!! Say no....while you still can!!! Have a nice day!  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:09:39 AM
Can someone from the Business forum please  tell me if Ridge College is a member of that body. I think it would be of interest to know given this latest development,   :o. I don't want to look on the members list, I would just like an answer if that's possible from somebody from the Business forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 20, 2011, 08:14:56 AM
Every councillor gave me assurances that the land could only be used for housing  :-\. You couldn't make it up could you.   

There may be nothing wrong with what the councillors said.  I believe the whole area around Hibbert Lane is zoned for housing in the SMBC Structure Plan, or whatever it's called.  But that doesn't prevent someone applying for planning consent for retail use.  Whether the application is likely to succeed is another matter, of course........

On another question, I have had a look at the Business Forum website, and camsfc does not appear to be listed as a member, surprisingly. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:27:23 AM
Every councillor gave me assurances that the land could only be used for housing  :-\. You couldn't make it up could you.  

There may be nothing wrong with what the councillors said.  I believe the whole area around Hibbert Lane is zoned for housing in the SMBC Structure Plan, or whatever it's called.  But that doesn't prevent someone applying for planning consent for retail use.  Whether the application is likely to succeed is another matter, of course........

On another question, I have had a look at the Business Forum website, and camsfc does not appear to be listed as a member, surprisingly.  
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to tell me if the college is a member or not

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:30:43 AM
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to confirm that the college is not a member of the Business Forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 20, 2011, 09:19:45 AM
Is Marple College a member of the Business Forum ?  A little birdie just told me it is  ???

No, the College is not a member of the MBF.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 11:53:55 AM
Hi thanks for that, but can you tell me when the College stopped being a member of the Marple Business Forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 20, 2011, 12:06:12 PM
I have searched all the records I received when I took over my current role and there is no record of the college at all (in either current or lapsed members lists).

The records I have date back to 2006.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 12:59:03 PM
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to confirm that the college is not a member of the Business Forum

Miss M, I suspect people have more to do that jump to your demands all day. If the business forum is like the one I am a member of, it is not a full time body but just a vehicle for businesses to meet once a month, raise current issues and try to promote the area for business ends. Even if the college were a member, I'm not sure to what difference it would make to you.

I'm quite supportive of joining up with an organised and responsible strategy to object to a large supermarket in Marple. I would be very concerned to be backing a self-appointed spokesperson who is becoming a reactionary acting on either half-truths, rumour and in some cases imaginary occurances.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 20, 2011, 01:07:11 PM
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.

FYI - the MBF have bought forward their meeting on this issue to Wednesday 3rd August.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:08:43 PM
I have searched all the records I received when I took over my current role and there is no record of the college at all (in either current or lapsed members lists).

The records I have date back to 2006.

Hi  many thanks for that it's very useful information !  What a team !!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:09:29 PM
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.

FYI - the MBF have bought forward their meeting on this issue to Wednesday 3rd August.

FANTASTIC !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:16:20 PM
Hi Duke Fame  say what you like I can take it, but just don't call me PETER  :D.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:21:36 PM
Hi Mabel I have sent you a personal email not sure if you have noticed it.  Can you contact me cheers !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 02:00:31 PM
Hi Duke Fame  say what you like I can take it, but just don't call me PETER  :D.

Don't take it personally, it's great to be passionate but passionate can easily spill over to illogical. You've been involved in a lot of campaigns and I must admit, my first reaction was "here we go again" but hidden beneath the rhetoric, there are some valid concerns. Whoever leads the campaign needs to focus on what is valid rather than simply appear to having an emotional attachment to the past and be against change for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 20, 2011, 02:08:58 PM
Hi, I've been following the Tesco stuff and finally decided to aded a few comments of my own ...

I thought we lived in a democracy, so how come a small group of people (ie the College Governors) can irrevocably change the face of Marple without any public consultation whatsoever. The bids for the sale of the Hibbert Lane campus are all from large supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsbury’s Waitrose), not one from a housing developer. This part of Marple is not zoned for retail use by the Council, but there are Councillors who are Governors, how did this happen?

Surely we need more affordable housing for young families and retired people in Marple, and this would be an ideal spot, perhaps alongside a community centre which we desperately need, and a health centre. As adjacent land is zoned for housing use by the council surely this would be a more acceptable solution.

In High Peak the council give guidance on land values for different class uses, these are of course approximate, but a helpful indication of what the land would sell for with the relevant planning permission. Land with planning permission for housing sells for more than twice that with retail/leisure permission. I have asked Stockport council, but they do not give these guidelines as land costs vary so widely across the Borough.  BUT it seems strange to me that on land zoned for housing by the council and that could possibly be more valuable for that use, not a single known bid has been received. I suppose the argument is that the land is worth what someone is prepared to pay. So come on all you housing developers lets have some bids.

I agree that we probably do need another supermarket to serve the size of population we have in Marple, but this should be of the right scale and located amongst the other shops. The empty Hanbury’s site would be ideal, or as I hear the Iceland company is up for sale, replace that, or even on the Somerfield (which is now a second Co-op) Texaco site. One of the arguments that the large supermarkets will use is that there is no competition to the Co-op in Marple – and they are right in this respect. If the Co-op could be persuaded to forego their stranglehold on Marple and a suitable sized development in the retail zone could happen then this would be of benefit to households IN MARPLE and would increase footfall for the whole town centre which would benefit the independent shops.

If a larger supermarket is built on Hibbert Lane this will pull in people from outside Marple, causing more congestion on the roads, which no doubt will be enlarged to accommodate the increased traffic flows – pity the poor householders on Hibbert Lane, and what will happen to the value of their property?  It will pull shoppers away from Market Street which will mean the decline of the independent shops there. I’m sure there will be a pedestrian walkway in the proposal, but let’s face it would you walk from Hibbert Lane to Market Street, having loaded up with a weekly shop, especially in winter or if it’s raining – I doubt it. Also consider the effect on the local economy, money spent in local shops gets re-spent in other local shops up to six times, whereas money spent in supermarkets leaves the local economy. I am aware that job creation will be a consideration, but independent shops and businesses as a whole are the biggest employment sector in the UK. Don’t even get me started on how much data supermarkets gather by using clubcards, check out CRUCIBLE database on Google – talk about big brother. You might be interested to know that in under six miles from Marple centre there are approximately 60 supermarkets and convenience stores.

Whilst I understand the College need money, I think we should demand a halt to proceedings until all avenues have been explored and the residents and businesses in Marple have been consulted. It seems to me that the citizens of Marple are suffering for the college’s bad housekeeping.

BE UNDER NO ILLUSION - once the land has been sold to Teso, Sainsbury’s or Waitrose, whether planning permission is refused or not – a supermarket will be built and MARPLE WILL CHANGE FOREVER.  The large supermarkets know the appeal process inside out and there are only so many objections the planning dept can raise and afford to raise (the appeal process costs millions of taxpayers money), so it’s only a matter of time before they finally get the permission to build. Believe me I have seen it happen in other places, and there is plenty of evidence on the Tescopoly website - and for those of who you who think Tesco et al are the friendly shop on the corner – follow the link on this forum to the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary about the supermarket that ate Britain.

Let us band together and call for a public consultation about the use of this land before it’s too late – and a public enquiry into the state of the College’s finances, because it’s that that’s created this situation and they are and should be accountable.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 20, 2011, 02:39:54 PM
Hi catwoman, and welcome to the forum!

I don't know anything about land valuation (except that it is a complex business!).  However, surely if land for housing was really worth more than retail land, the college would be selling it to a housing developer, not a supermarket!  

And according to this earlier post:
If the land was sold for housing it would raise about £4M, if sold for retail development around £12M would be generated.
....retail land is worth more than housing land.

As for the college's financial position, I know nothing about it, but I doubt whether there has been any 'bad housekeeping'.  The whole of further and higher education is under severe financial pressure because of the governement's current squeeze on spending.  There are waves of staff redundancies, the Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) has been scrapped, and there is virtually no capital funding available for major rebuilding projects, even in cases, such as this one, where a new building is obviously needed.  So colleges have to go out and find the cash as best they can.  Camsfc is fortunate in that unlike some other colleges, it does have saleable land which it can dispose of to finance its plans.  

You ask for a 'public consultation', but that is exactly what will happen anyway, once the planning application has been submitted.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 04:09:46 PM
Hi, I've been following the Tesco stuff and finally decided to aded a few comments of my own ...

I thought we lived in a democracy, so how come a small group of people (ie the College Governors) can irrevocably change the face of Marple without any public consultation whatsoever. The bids for the sale of the Hibbert Lane campus are all from large supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsbury’s Waitrose), not one from a housing developer. This part of Marple is not zoned for retail use by the Council, but there are Councillors who are Governors, how did this happen?

As Dave says, the college need to get the best deal they can get. The former government spent too much on various projects and left the economy in the clarts. If the college wants to spend money, it must either sell assets or find a lender fund new buildings. It has surplus assets so that is what they will look to do.

If there is unlikely to be planning permission granted for a supermarket, the land is worth no more than a farmer's field to Tesco. The realistic worry is that whoever buys the plot may well get knocked back for planning. They will then leave it to be a mess until finally the opposition is worn down as anything is better than a wasteland.

This is why I keep saying the opposition has to be logical, valid and without emotion.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 20, 2011, 04:13:14 PM
Hi Dave, and thanks for the Welcome.

Re your comments about land values - I'm only saying what I found from High Peak, that land values there for housing use (with pp) are twice as much as retail use - and commenting that this was interesting. It could be that its very different in Marple, but we don't know for sure because there aren't substantiated figures available - I am making enquiries though! You would hope that college would have checked this out, but again we don't know for sure.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 20, 2011, 04:35:26 PM
As an established member of the whole community the college also has a moral obligation to the Marple community, just as they would expect a public outcry if the college closed so they must realise they have an obligation not to sell land, that once belonged to the community, to an organisation that would be a detriment to the area.
The college appears at the moment not to care about the community that supports it, and that is worrying, they don't seem willing, or able, to publicise any of their rationale over their decision to sell the land to a major supermarket.
They don't want, or are unable, to state what all the options were, e.g.
was the Cheadle site looked at?
How much money do they require?
What is their long term objectives for the college?
Just saying they want money for redevelopment is not enough.
The longer they stay quiet on the matter the more devious I think they are, just the timing of all this smells (just when the college closes for their Summer break).

Come on people of Marple UNITE against this proposal, the fight will be long and hard but we can prevail.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 20, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
We know from previous posts in this long thread that camsfc commissioned a property strategy from Turner and Townsend, who are a very large, reputable multi-national property consultancy.  That document will have been drawn up over many months, and will undoubtedly have included a comparative assessment of a number of options.  The one now being pursued by the college will not have been arrived at without due consideration.  In particular, T&T will have done detailed work on comparative land valuations, assuming various types of planning consent.

Re Duke's point about what happens if a planning application is refused, I suspect that Tesco or Sainsbury's would be seeking to reach some kind of conditional agreement with the college - for example, that any deal would be subject to planning consent acceptable to the purchaser. 

Re Victor's point about the college's 'moral obligation to the community', far from not caring about the community that supports it, the college governors seem to me to be doing their best for us, in seeking to provide a decent learning environment for the next generation.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on July 20, 2011, 04:59:23 PM
Thank you Catwoman for a well thought out and reasoned posting - gives us all plenty of room for thought without the hysterics! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 05:39:31 PM
Re Victor's point about the college's 'moral obligation to the community', far from not caring about the community that supports it, the college governors seem to me to be doing their best for us, in seeking to provide a decent learning environment for the next generation.

That is one take on it although I think in isolation, the college doesn't really need to consider externalities as long as they safeguard the future of the college being able to meet the needs of it's customers.

I am slightly puzzled as to why the college are needing to expand now. As Dave pointed out, the government were throwing money at new school buildings and refurbs. A business I am involved in was supplying kit to rebuilds and many of these rebuilt schools (according to our engineers) were replacing perfectly modern buildings. It's surprising therefore that the college didn't put in an application back then.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 05:42:59 PM
Hi Dave, and thanks for the Welcome.

Re your comments about land values - I'm only saying what I found from High Peak, that land values there for housing use (with pp) are twice as much as retail use - and commenting that this was interesting.


I think the size of the plot is the difference. It's not often that a hypermarket sized plot becomes available, it's that scarcity that makes is valauble.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 20, 2011, 05:51:39 PM
We know from previous posts in this long thread that camsfc commissioned a property strategy from Turner and Townsend, who are a very large, reputable multi-national property consultancy.  That document will have been drawn up over many months, and will undoubtedly have included a comparative assessment of a number of options.  The one now being pursued by the college will not have been arrived at without due consideration.  In particular, T&T will have done detailed work on comparative land valuations, assuming various types of planning consent.


If that is the case why did they not publish it with the minutes of the meeting!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 06:18:25 PM
Thank you Catwoman for a well thought out and reasoned posting - gives us all plenty of room for thought without the hysterics! 
Well said Barbara !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:09:32 PM
Well I have had a really interesting day .  I have emailed all the councillors to ask what they know ? They are still saying that only housing can be built on the college site I do hope so  :-\.   It was interesting to hear that they were already dealing with concerned residents, so at least this Forum has alerted residents.  'Marple in Action' has now joined forces with another group so that's a very positive move !  AND wait for it !!  I have had three voice messages from TESCO !! Asking for me to contact them.   NOW THAT IS 'MARPLE IN ACTION'  !   :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 20, 2011, 08:27:43 PM
Am finding it really encouraging to see the campaign start to gather some momentum.  

I'm not particularly familar with Twitter or Facebook, but I wondered whether it's worth people "tweeting" a message along the likes of "#Tesco hoping to build huge supermarket on #marple college campus, see http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/".  Or perhaps admin could create a "http://www.marple-uk.com/notesco" which directs to a "MARPLE IN ACTION" summary page with a link to the forum and details of local councillor / MP contact information ?  And on the facebook aspect, start a new group on there, which people can join, which in turn points them at this site too ?

No doubt there's some other approaches outside the social-media world, like petitions and posters in Marple shops that are worth pursuing.

And finally, HAS ANYONE TOLD BRYCE  :o ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 20, 2011, 11:05:49 PM
Rather suprised that Tesco would bid for a piece of land that's only designated for residential use, so have submitted FOI to Tesco (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/marple_planning).

Quote
Dear Tesco Stores Limited,

Please could you furnish me with details of correspondence between
Tesco, Turner and Townsend, Walsingham Planning, Cheadle & Marple
Sixth Form College and the council (officers and elected officials)
and within the council with regard to plans for a supermarket on
the existing college site in Marple?

Furthermore, in light of the designation (by the local council) of
the college side as residential use only, what reassurances have
Tesco had concerning the use of the college campus land for
commercial use ?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 11:41:48 PM
Rather suprised that Tesco would bid for a piece of land that's only designated for residential use, so have submitted

You know they don't have to reply
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 21, 2011, 08:40:43 AM
I have put a link to this website on my facebook page and a brief statement regarding the possible future plans of the college. I have over 2,500 friends on there and I'm hoping it will help get more support and get the word out to Marple residents that might not know about it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 21, 2011, 08:41:16 AM
I am slightly puzzled as to why the college are needing to expand now.

As I understand, it's not about growth, it's about replacing outdated, poor-quality and unsuitable buildings.

As Dave pointed out, the government were throwing money at new school buildings and refurbs.  It's surprising therefore that the college didn't put in an application back then.

I think that refers to the last government's PFI scheme, known as Building Schools for the Future (BSF).  However, that was for schools.  Camsfc is a sixth-form college, which would not have been eligible for any funds from BSF. 

A business I am involved in was supplying kit to rebuilds and many of these rebuilt schools (according to our engineers) were replacing perfectly modern buildings.

Mmmm...... Apparently Marple Hall School's buildings were deemed to be not grotty enough to qualify for BSF, so there must be some pretty grotty premises around! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 11:13:20 AM
Have you got a better idea Duke Fame ?  You know !  Every little helps !

Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

I was wrong as it happens, there was a reply. Tesco said 'Thank you for using Tesco delivery service, you can amend your order online'
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 11:19:55 AM
I am slightly puzzled as to why the college are needing to expand now.

As I understand, it's not about growth, it's about replacing outdated, poor-quality and unsuitable buildings.

As Dave pointed out, the government were throwing money at new school buildings and refurbs.  It's surprising therefore that the college didn't put in an application back then.

I think that refers to the last government's PFI scheme, known as Building Schools for the Future (BSF).  However, that was for schools.  Camsfc is a sixth-form college, which would not have been eligible for any funds from BSF. 

A business I am involved in was supplying kit to rebuilds and many of these rebuilt schools (according to our engineers) were replacing perfectly modern buildings.

Mmmm...... Apparently Marple Hall School's buildings were deemed to be not grotty enough to qualify for BSF, so there must be some pretty grotty premises around! 


Aquinas used Building Schools for the Future monies as did 2 we were involved in Birmingham & no doubt others.  Marple Hall looks pretty slick as a school to me. Essentially it doesn't matter too much, the college is going to have to raise any money it needs from other sources as there is very little funding right now. Gordon Brown managed to waste it all when he was the only chancellor in history who successfully managed to  spend his way out of a boom.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on July 21, 2011, 11:40:33 AM
Mmmm...... Apparently Marple Hall School's buildings were deemed to be not grotty enough to qualify for BSF, so there must be some pretty grotty premises around! 

MHS's buildings were actually sound enough that they didn't need knocking down. They got an extensive refit of wall panels & windows. There has also been a lot of internal conversion; the old lower school/girls' gym was converted into a library for both buildings and the old libraries converted to other uses.

It's not an ideal learning environment but it does the job without having to go to the expense of starting all over again.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 21, 2011, 11:48:24 AM
Gordon Brown managed to waste it all when he was the only chancellor in history who successfully managed to  spend his way out of a boom.

I like that. Very good!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 21, 2011, 12:02:44 PM
Aquinas used Building Schools for the Future monies

No it didn't - it came from the Learning and Skills Council, now defunct - just like BSF!  I believe the previous government had planned to open up BSF to sixth form colleges, but they were overtaken by events in May last year! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 12:29:57 PM
Aquinas used Building Schools for the Future monies

No it didn't - it came from the Learning and Skills Council, now defunct - just like BSF!  I believe the previous government had planned to open up BSF to sixth form colleges, but they were overtaken by events in May last year! 

Yes they did.

As for events last year, we can be very thankful
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 12:39:19 PM
Have you got a better idea Duke Fame ?  You know !  Every little helps !

Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

I was wrong as it happens, there was a reply. Tesco said 'Thank you for using Tesco delivery service, you can amend your order online'

. No couldnt have been that !   I shop local !  Don't you  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 12:56:20 PM
I have put a link to this website and a brief statement regarding the possible future plans of the college. I have over 2,500 friends on there and I'm hoping it will help get more support and get the word out to Marple residents that might not know about it.
That's fantastic stuff!  That technology wouldn't work for me as I only have 4 friends on face book ;). Well done for doing this the more people that know about this the better  WHAT A TEAM !  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 04:53:15 PM
Everything is now coming together and 'Marple In Action' will be able to give more details of the plan of action over the weekend.   We have gained the interest  of local councillors with who we will be speaking to over the next couple of days.  One LARGE Marple Business has been in touch and is closely watching the developments.  It's amazing how many local people have not heard about the proposed development so if you can, spread the word, I think that SGK and Come on Nick get Real have brought some new and welcomed ideas and I am sure we will be using that kind of technology to get our message across.   As I have always said, this Forum will be the first to know all the latest developments and planed action from 'Marple In Action '. Please register on the forum if you think you can help in anyway all participation, enthusiasm and shoe leather welcome
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 09:24:32 PM
Have you got a better idea Duke Fame ?  You know !  Every little helps !

Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

I was wrong as it happens, there was a reply. Tesco said 'Thank you for using Tesco delivery service, you can amend your order online'

. No couldnt have been that !   I shop local !  Don't you  :-\


If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!

Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.

Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:

www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>

In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.

Kind regards

[cid:78c62857-d7e5-43bf-b9f8-c5816e996efd]

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 09:27:07 PM
You said Tesco's have left you two messages on your phone, did you speak to them? This seems so much more of a breakthrough than your other news.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 21, 2011, 09:39:50 PM
Quote from: Duke Fame
Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

Quote from: Duke Fame
If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!
Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.
Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:
www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>
In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.
Kind regards

Hi Duke,

It's the equivalent of an "out of office" reply.  It's the stock response automatically initially returned by Tesco via that site.  If you look a bit further you'll see that Tesco are obliged to respond, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco) : "Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.".

And if you take a look further, you'll see they have responded to some other FOI requests (same URL), particularly the ones where people have been concerned about Crucible (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/sep/20/freedomofinformation.supermarkets) and its privacy implications.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 09:45:58 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on July 21, 2011, 10:11:07 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.

After reading this,  I wont be posting much  now  on this website, Im sorry Mark, but I honestly have read enough, not just on this topic but others too,  its reading things like this that are driving people away and not posting anymore .

Im sick of the bickering,  Im sick of feeling that if you have an opinion that differs to some of the stronger posters on this board, then its classed as nonsense ( thats not necessarily from me, but from talking to other local people, and I have mentioned this in the past ) .

The whole Tesco issue is supposed to be bringing people together no matter what their opinions are on the matter , often I have had my mind changed on a subject by discussions and other peoples valid and thoughtfull opinions, on this, i feel its either one way , or no way .

You have worked so hard on this website, and commited so much of your own time , but I feel that the hard work you are doing  is being over run by sometimes what seems hysteria and one upmanship , this website is your hard work, and I sometimes feel, that its been taken advantage of to make a point .( nobody shoot me  its my own personal opinion )

Good luck with the campaign against Tescos for who ever gets involved , I actually voted for " I dont mind "  ... and Im certainly not going to feel guilty for it either .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 10:25:30 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on July 21, 2011, 10:43:48 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.

Reference to overwritten post removed. Admin.

Passionate about it ... you carry on   .... but to be a good campaigner, you must not alienate people who initially may support you , but then back out because they cant stand the aggro it creates, this is a community where everyones opinions matter, to get people on side, you need to be very open minded   .

Because you care  .... believe me, I care, I care about my children, where they live, their community ( I do enough in it off my own back believe me , but thats another story ) , but  I also am not blinkered that this is a modern world we are living in, and for their future, sometimes, just sometimes, we have to accept change  .... most people dont work nine to five anymore, I work day times, but also evening times .... its rare im even able to shop nine to five  .... sad but true !  I wouldnt want the demise of local shops anymore than you would , so dont imply that others dont care because they may support, sit on the fence or whatever when it comes to something that you feel passionate about,  because quite simply YOU are not being fair  .

I'll leave you to it Miss Marple , Good luck :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tina on July 21, 2011, 11:53:16 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.

Reference to overwritten post removed. Admin.

Passionate about it ... you carry on   .... but to be a good campaigner, you must not alienate people who initially may support you , but then back out because they cant stand the aggro it creates, this is a community where everyones opinions matter, to get people on side, you need to be very open minded   .

Because you care  .... believe me, I care, I care about my children, where they live, their community ( I do enough in it off my own back believe me , but thats another story ) , but  I also am not blinkered that this is a modern world we are living in, and for their future, sometimes, just sometimes, we have to accept change  .... most people dont work nine to five anymore, I work day times, but also evening times .... its rare im even able to shop nine to five  .... sad but true !  I wouldnt want the demise of local shops anymore than you would , so dont imply that others dont care because they may support, sit on the fence or whatever when it comes to something that you feel passionate about,  because quite simply YOU are not being fair  .

I'll leave you to it Miss Marple , Good luck :)


I have to agree with this, it has become uncomfortable reading. I fully respect peoples opinions and wouldn't force my views on anybody. Not everybody wants a new supermarket in Marple ( I do ) I shop local, but do my main shop online at asda. its cheaper than the co-op and delivers at my convenience as a single mother with no car it suits me... If there was another supermarket in Marple I would shop there.
another thought...think of the jobs what would be made available for all the local people.
That is just my opinion and not forcing it on anyone, just adding to the debate
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tina on July 21, 2011, 11:58:11 PM
I know I'm not alone having home deliveries as there is always tesco, asda, and sainsbuy van's driving around Marple at different times everyday. So you all dont shop local for your main shop and the shops in Marple have not closed down beacause of it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 22, 2011, 12:15:16 AM
Tina I totally agree with you and believe me I am fully aware that the coop has a monopoly in Marple  I can honestly say that I am not against anyone for what views they hold. One of the things that should happen is that the coop should allow Hanburys to be sold to another retailer so that there is competition for the coop    I think that it's just the way I come across on the forum that gets peoples backs up and that's strange because  it's a funny old world but I think  you do know me because I think I know you .  Well Memo to self !  Think before you post !  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tina on July 22, 2011, 07:54:13 AM
Tina I totally agree with you and believe me I am fully aware that the coop has a monopoly in Marple  I can honestly say that I am not against anyone for what views they hold. One of the things that should happen is that the coop should allow Hanburys to be sold to another retailer so that there is competition for the coop    I think that it's just the way I come across on the forum that gets peoples backs up and that's strange because  it's a funny old world but I think  you do know me because I think I know you .  Well Memo to self !  Think before you post !  ;)





Miss Marple, I think that is the first rational post you have wrote in a while.
I agree about the old Hanbury's building. It is again sitting empty, which is a shame for Marple.
If you keep your post's rational without getting too emotionally involved then you might get more people on board with your MARPLE IN ACTION. Just because I want another supermarket doesnt mean I am against all of you who dont.
Re me knowing you? I don't know if I do, and if I do I would tell you myself how I feel about this whole topic and any other topic on this forum, I don't hide behind a pseudonym. I am Tina always have been and always will ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 22, 2011, 08:05:30 AM
This is a very good point Tina. Reading the posts of the people supporting a new supermarket it seems that a large proportion do so because of a big dissatisfaction with the Co-Op and I must admit that I understand that.

The Co-Op have not done themselves any favours in the eyes of the community with their policy of holding on to the former Hanbury’s building and deliberately keeping it closed so that no competitor can move in. And now that they also own the Texaco supermarket they have a monopoly in Marple. After prolonged protests and lobbying by the council and the community several years ago they made a show of using the Hanbury’s building as an electrical store for a while but it always seemed to be a bit of a half-hearted attempt to me.

I’ve been told that the Co-Op have recently renewed the lease on the Hanbury’s building for another 5 years and, surprise, surprise, soon after they closed it again. So it would appear that the electrical shop was simply a cynical exercise to pacify the protests until they could renew the lease and continue their supermarket monopoly unhindered.

A new supermarket chain wishing to move onto the college site will use the lack of competition in the area as a justification for their plans. If there was a competing store in the Hanburys location, which is inside the district centre, it would probably be of overall benefit to local shops and local people. Perhaps the Co-Op needs to take a long hard look at its strategy before it is swallowed whole?   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 22, 2011, 10:08:17 AM
I know I'm not alone having home deliveries as there is always tesco, asda, and sainsbuy van's driving around Marple at different times everyday. So you all dont shop local for your main shop and the shops in Marple have not closed down beacause of it.

I think Tina is making a key point here.  Nowadays, people tend to do a big (weekly?) supermarket shop (or order online), and I'll lay a bet that a lot of us do this away from Marple - at Morrison's or Sainsbury's, for example.  Then we top this up locally as required, at the Co-op and at all the small local shops. 

A new major supermarket in Hibbert Lane would undoubtedly lead to more of us staying in Marple for our main supermarket shop, rather than clogging up the roads in Offerton or Bredbury.    So it could actually have the effect of reducing traffic congestion!

Small shops have continued to survive in Marple, despite the Co-op, and despite the fact that many of us do our main shop elsewhere.  If we all used a new supermarket in Marple instead, the increase in 'footfall' (to use the jargon), could actually benefit local shops.  For example, in Stockport and Wilmslow people park for free in one of the town supermarkets, do some shopping there, and then leave the car where it is and go off to shop for other things at smaller local shops. 

The real problem with huge supermarkets is when they are built away from town centres.  Think of Cheadle Royal or Handforth Dean. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 10:36:00 AM
I've spent the last couple of days reading through this topic and thought I'd air my views!  I registered some time ago but generally prefer to read and digest what is being said.

My observations:
The site is probably worth close to the values estimated in previous posts.  I know the site at the old St Thomas Hospital in Stockport was up over £12m some time ago, and that was with listed buildings on it and a lot of work needing to be done; the site in Marple would be more desirable in my opinion in terms of both housing (desirable area) and also retail due to the lack of immediate competition in the area as far as Hazel Grove and Bredbury.
I have some knowledge of College 'mergers' and understand that as an organisation Cheadle and Marple will need to alleviate debts and raise funds, and don't doubt that the retail sale is the most lucrative way of achieving this.  Part of the problem is that the organisation's longer term goals may involve liquidation of the saleable assets and redirection of some operations to another campus, ie Cheadle.  I think that this is possible over time, and reduction in the Student population in Marple (whatever you think of them!) will be detrimental to local trading.
The Co-op is not satisfactory as a retailer in the area due to pricing and supplies, however as a company they operate far more ethically than Tesco, irrespective of the Hanbury's policy.  I think the local spirit in Marple remains and the aspirational nature of this forms at least a small part of the pbjection to Tesco moving into the area.  The council have been stung at Portwood by Tesco in terms of their ignorance of planning permissions, and regardless of how well they have imposed a restriction n use of some of the buildings, Marple could not afford Tesco deliberately overbuilding.
Competition is required that the local shops are failing to deliver, and this seems to be as a result of Council policy (ie. Paid car parking, high rates etc).  The pedestrianised area has been dying for some time, with weekends in particular seeming empty.  The prevalence of 'pound shops' down Market Street does nothing to retain the heritage or pull of the area.
The area is by no means 'a large town'. Stockport is a large town, with a vast differential in population and geography.  Marple is a small town or large village at best, and simply the infrastructure in Marple, regardless of the strengthening on Dan Bank, simply does not lend itself to a large supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  I note that Glossop has been quoted as an example of the large supermarket working in conjunction with local shops to good effect - this is largely due to the number of other shops on the retail park that draw in a wider catchment due to their specialist nature and size, and Marple cannot support such a development meaning that the supermarket proposal on Hibbert Lane would be standalone.  It is also noteworthy that the traffic in Glossop, for a variety of reasons, backs up beyond the roundabout at Hattersley on a daily basis and the area has been crying out for a bypass for a long time.  I for one already bemoan traffic in and out of the area and would not welcome an increase; I don't see any real opportunity to alleviate traffic congestion in Marple from the current situation, never mind the state it will be in should a large supermarket open. 

I have no nostalgia as such for the area having only lived here the past decade, and (apologies to MBF!) no great affiliation to the local shops, however I still strongly oppose the development of the site as a large supermarket for congestion reasons, despite 24hr opening etc it is clear that the large supermarkets at Bredbury, Stockport, Hyde, Hazel Grove etc. are all supplied by good transport links, close to motorway networks or major A roads.  The Coop ha developed it's monopoly a despite it's inadequacies it is appropriately sized for the residency of Marple in terms of footfall in the store, and I think with a more aggressive strategy and some breaks from the council the local shops could offer better competition than is currently the case.

I understand that change is upon us, that the era is of large supermarkets monopolising the local economy, however I feel quite simply that Marple geographically does not lend itself at all to this strategy, and that any support garnered for the proposal on the basis on inadequacies in local provision can be addressed in other ways.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 11:01:05 AM
Apologies Dave, I think I was writing as you posted!

I think your argument is flawed, on the basis that Handforth Dean and Cheadle Royal, whatever minor traffic issues have been generated as a result of putting breaks in the A34, have had no massive impact on a local residential population. Again, the existence of such a major dual carriageway nearby makes it completely incomparable to the effect this would have on Marple.

While I agree that Marple traffic would remain in Marple, you have completely and totally disregarded the effect of people coming into Marple to use a major supermarket.  Bredbury can cope, as it is immediately next to the M60, but should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
This would, irrespective of opening hours, primarily be at rush hour.
Logically, at present, with Marple mainly a residential area, the flow of traffic is outbound from 7-10am, and inwards from 4-6pm.  Build a major supermarket in Marple, and all that traffic backing up Bents Lane and down Marple Road is no longer filtering off... They (and more besides) are with you all the way into Marple.  That is the time you want traffic to subside, when you're on the way home from a long day as opposed to when you're going shopping, when it's less of a concern.

I think it's naive and illogical to realistically suggest that traffic congestion would improve in the area by introducing a massive supermarket, drawing  wide catchment from surrounding areas, that was previously absent.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 22, 2011, 02:47:46 PM
Just finished a Lengthy  conversation with Mr Hubert ( college ) who informed me that they will be speaking to the press  middle of next week when the Principal returns from Annual leave to give a press release on the developments
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: ericthehamster on July 22, 2011, 03:00:35 PM
Can I just "like" Marple_Syrup's measured comments?

I am really against Tescos moving in for various reasons (I haven't shopped with them for ages, and recommend people read "Shopped" by Joanna Blythman).

I also agree competition isn't necessarily a bad thing (and am disappointed to note what the Co-op have been doing with the Hanbury's store, I am a big supporter of the Co-op generally). However, it isn't fair competition when you are talking about Tescos and the other Big Boys. Whilst it might be appropriate to have another supermarket in the current Hanbury's location (and with that smaller footprint), a large Supermarket slightly removed from the small town centre is just out of keeping with the size and aspect of Marple. I am not sure Hibbert Lane could take the extra traffic (and it wouldn't be just locals shopping there - a large Tescos is likely to attract shoppers from quite a large catchment).

I'm not sure if anyone has already posted this (so apologies for the repetition) - this is a good source of information about Tescos generally, and fighting their unfair practices:

http://www.tescopoly.org/

BTW - one of the original commenters suggested that the cinema, library and swimming pool were hardly used? As a regular user of all three, I can refute that suggestion!  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 05:10:27 PM
Just finished a Lengthy  conversation with Mr Hubert ( college ) who informed me that they will be speaking to the press  middle of next week when the Principal returns from Annual leave to give a press release on the developments

Any developmennts from the messages Tesco left you?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: Duke Fame
Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

Quote from: Duke Fame
If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!
Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.
Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:
www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>
In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.
Kind regards

Hi Duke,

It's the equivalent of an "out of office" reply.  It's the stock response automatically initially returned by Tesco via that site.  If you look a bit further you'll see that Tesco are obliged to respond, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco) : "Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.".

And if you take a look further, you'll see they have responded to some other FOI requests (same URL), particularly the ones where people have been concerned about Crucible (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/sep/20/freedomofinformation.supermarkets) and its privacy implications.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.

I realised that, it just tickled me
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
This is a very good point Tina. Reading the posts of the people supporting a new supermarket it seems that a large proportion do so because of a big dissatisfaction with the Co-Op and I must admit that I understand that.

The Co-Op have not done themselves any favours in the eyes of the community with their policy of holding on to the former Hanbury’s building and deliberately keeping it closed so that no competitor can move in. And now that they also own the Texaco supermarket they have a monopoly in Marple. After prolonged protests and lobbying by the council and the community several years ago they made a show of using the Hanbury’s building as an electrical store for a while but it always seemed to be a bit of a half-hearted attempt to me.

I’ve been told that the Co-Op have recently renewed the lease on the Hanbury’s building for another 5 years and, surprise, surprise, soon after they closed it again. So it would appear that the electrical shop was simply a cynical exercise to pacify the protests until they could renew the lease and continue their supermarket monopoly unhindered.

A new supermarket chain wishing to move onto the college site will use the lack of competition in the area as a justification for their plans. If there was a competing store in the Hanburys location, which is inside the district centre, it would probably be of overall benefit to local shops and local people. Perhaps the Co-Op needs to take a long hard look at its strategy before it is swallowed whole?   

I think there is a danger of 2nd guessing the co-op’s intentions. I can’t see  the shop being an attractive proposition to any business really. Yes it’s the right size to be a Tesco metro but without parking & with a big store on it’s doorstep, it makes little sense. It’s also too big for taking an advantage on Sunday opening (although the floor space could be re-designed to be smaller). I can see it being a big co-op pharmacy or even FuneralCare.
You are right though, Tesco will play the competition card. Co-op’s new stranglehold in Marple is exactly what will be used in favour of a Tesco. I must say, I am at a loss as to what food shopping you can’t do at the Co-op or pick up in the Marple Precinct.  I know the choice of fresh olives may be a bit limited at 9.30 at night but is it really that important?
I admit to using Morrisons or Aldi but it’s as a result of going past when going elsewhere than actually making a special trip out of marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 22, 2011, 06:13:19 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping? 

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 22, 2011, 06:29:37 PM
Hanburys used to be a handy little supermarket and was well used. The Co-op probably put their rent up to get rid of them!

I don't know how the co-op can justify selling things that are sometimes 40p, 50p dearer than other supermarkets. You can get 4 pints of milk from Iceland for £1, co-op sell it for £1.59 and just now the co-op have a punnet of strawberries half price at £2, the usual price of £4 is just ridiculous. The co-op also had a big box of laundry powder that was supposedly reduced from £10 to £5 which I bought, I go down that aisle today and guess what, they are selling it for £5, so was never actually reduced at all. I am also tired of always seeing the same things on BOGOF. Plus, everyday items in their now petrol station are 40p, 50p dearer than the co-op! Lets hope that the co-op take it seriously and reduce their prices.

If Tescos does arrive in Marple and offering food at realistic and common sense prices, then co-op will become a ghost town and instead of customer there will only be tumble weed moving down the aisles.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 08:00:14 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping? 

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can! 

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 22, 2011, 10:12:02 PM
Having followed this debate with great interest, I contacted Miss Marple to offer my support to Marple In Action and was invited to a meeting which took place earlier today. As no-one else has updated the forum, I thought I'd just let everyone know what was discussed at the meeting and what will be happening going forward.

A representative of Co-op head office was present, along with the Marple store manager, 3 local councillors and a cross section of traders and concerned residents.

There is enough evidence to suggest that two of the large supermarkets are definitely in talks with the college. The Director of Finance and Business of the college sent a fax to MM stating "the college anticipate making a statement next week to the press and will contact you accordingly".

It was decided at this stage to focus on raising awareness within the community as we all feel that not enough people are aware of the proposals. We are arranging a leaflet-drop for those areas which we feel will be most affected by the arrival of a large supermarket in Hibbert Lane.

There is an open Area Committee meeting next Wednesday where local councillors will be available to answer questions from the public. Andrew Stunell, our local MP, will also be there and we feel that this will be an invaluable opportunity to put our questions/objections to all our local representatives. The meeting will be held in Marple Library at 6pm on Wednesday the 27th and we would like as many people to attend as possible.

It was also discussed that a dedicated "campaign" webpage would be created, accessed via this website. Admin has kindly agreed this and more details will follow.

Marple In Action will be holding another meeting in a fortnight (details to follow). ANYBODY who would like to attend and show their support is welcome. Spread the word!!!

Look forward to seeing you all there
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 22, 2011, 10:14:52 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: ericthehamster on July 22, 2011, 10:25:12 PM
Thanks Belle - couldn't make meeting today, and won't be able to make Wednesday but e-mailed the details to all my local friends.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 10:31:40 PM
Hanburys used to be a handy little supermarket and was well used. The Co-op probably put their rent up to get rid of them!

I don't know how the co-op can justify selling things that are sometimes 40p, 50p dearer than other supermarkets. You can get 4 pints of milk from Iceland for £1, co-op sell it for £1.59 and just now the co-op have a punnet of strawberries half price at £2, the usual price of £4 is just ridiculous. The co-op also had a big box of laundry powder that was supposedly reduced from £10 to £5 which I bought, I go down that aisle today and guess what, they are selling it for £5, so was never actually reduced at all. I am also tired of always seeing the same things on BOGOF. Plus, everyday items in their now petrol station are 40p, 50p dearer than the co-op! Lets hope that the co-op take it seriously and reduce their prices.

If Tescos does arrive in Marple and offering food at realistic and common sense prices, then co-op will become a ghost town and instead of customer there will only be tumble weed moving down the aisles.

It [Hanburys] clearly wasn’t used well enough as it would still be running. Indeed you welcome tumbleweed in the aisles of the Co-op, as has happened to the old supermarket it will close, the result will not be competition.

I’m relatively new to Marple so don’t know the dynamics. This shop that is available to let was once Hanburys but the building was owned by the Co-op who rented it to Hanbury’s but put up the rent to have force a monopoly? Is that definitely right? I’m surprised as tenants usually have so much protection.

Your milk example isn’t a good one, Co-op specifically source from UK farmers who charge about 27p a litre of milk. It’s then packaged and distributed as well as the unsold milk wasted so I’d guess that even at £1.58 the profit is around 32%. Iceland are either sourcing from Jonny Foreign or running a loss leader to get the punters in to buy intensively farmed chicken etc. Co-op’s USP is the fair-trade thing so this is why you are paying 50p more for Milk. Even if you want the choice, you said yourself, it’s only a short walk to Iceland.

I have to say, the Petrol Station prices seem to be identical as the main co-op but selected to ensure the best value sizes are not available. Guess what, the Tesco petrol stations are the same.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 10:38:02 PM
Thanks for the update Belle, I'd like to have been invited.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 22, 2011, 10:54:16 PM
Marple in Action are in have started  an organised campaign please send me a personal email and I will inform you of details of the next meeting

Duke Fame - there was an open invitation for all forum users by Miss Marple a little while back. This is how I became aware of the meeting, along with other forum members who attended. Watch this space for details of the next meeting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 11:17:08 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....

If I have been ignorant, please forgive me.  I made an assumption on the basis that they are looking at paying £12m for a very large site.  Am not sure what Dave is basing his analysis on, but my theory, that IF it is a large store then traffic would be vey badly affected, is based in reality.
I'd suggest that if it was a relatively small to moderately sized store, there would be much less opposition and also perhaps a different site considered than a geographically large site requiring extensive demolition and rebuilding, running costs into tens of millions. 
Again, it feels like you're nitpicking at minor points (woe betide the mention of the word Extra to make you disregard the rest of my post) but in essence... Large-ish supermarket=more traffic.  Don't think I can say any more on it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 23, 2011, 12:05:06 AM
Just to say a huge thank you to all who attended tonights meeting at such short notice.  Next Wed will be an important meeting whereby questions can be put to our MP.   A Representative from The Coop head office was present so I took the opportunity after the meeting to inform her about comments which had been raised on the forum IE empty shelves and over priced goods which she will be feeding back to head office.  The coop were also informed that they really needed to allow Hanburys to be used by another retail company and that the current situation had in a way been brought about by their monopoly in Marple.  
It will be interesting to see how the MBF votes in their meeting in Aug, it would be nice if we were all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Once again thank you for attending the meeting and I have noted the apologies of those who due to such short notice were unable to attend  WHAT A TEAM !
I hope we can succeed in our objective because it would be awful if we lost our local shops.  Marple without Whites the butchers  bacon  ( salted and cured)  unthinkable   ;)  Fantastic stuff

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 23, 2011, 09:18:50 AM
Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

1.  I'm no expert, but my impression is that the Hibbert Lane campus of camsfc is much smaller in area than that of the nearest Tesco  'Extra' (Portwood), or indeed the Bredbury Morrisons or the Hazel Grove Sainsbury's.  Given the need to have a decent sized car park, my guess is that a new supermarket on that site would be no bigger than the Tesco at Whaley Bridge, and would probably not be a 24-hour mega-store, simply for reasons of lack of space.

2.  Another guess: the vast majority of the customers at Tesco's Whaley Bridge come from Whaley Bridge, New Mills and Disley.  The combined populations of those three places add up to less than that of Marple!  My view remains that  most customers at a new supermarket in Marple would be from Marple and the immediately surrounding villages, and that the net effect on traffic congestion in Offerton and Bredbury would be a reduction.   :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 23, 2011, 10:11:45 AM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....

If I have been ignorant, please forgive me.  I made an assumption on the basis that they are looking at paying £12m for a very large site.  Am not sure what Dave is basing his analysis on, but my theory, that IF it is a large store then traffic would be vey badly affected, is based in reality.
I'd suggest that if it was a relatively small to moderately sized store, there would be much less opposition and also perhaps a different site considered than a geographically large site requiring extensive demolition and rebuilding, running costs into tens of millions. 
Again, it feels like you're nitpicking at minor points (woe betide the mention of the word Extra to make you disregard the rest of my post) but in essence... Large-ish supermarket=more traffic.  Don't think I can say any more on it.

Hope you don't think I was having a pop.

In reality almost 20 pages of forum comments have been generated about a scheme that, in reality no-one knows much about - except that it might be a supermarket of some description. My view is not to panic too much about things that have yet to be put forward and wait to see what the details are.

Whatever the proposal, if the site is allocated for housing, any supermarket developer is going to have a fight on its hands to go against the development plan and get permission. It could be a long and drawn out process, with no guarantee of success.

On a differet tack, some of the comments criticising the Council about lack of information are very unfair. There is no compulsion on the Council to reveal pre-planning discussions at this stage, particularly as I suspect much of these are likely to have taken place in commercial confidence. Until a planning application is formally lodged it is not a 'live' scheme and details are likely to remain sketchy. Residents will then have 8 (more likely 16 weeks) to review the details and make our comments. By all means get organised and ready, but don't shoot the messeger, you may need their help at some stage.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 23, 2011, 10:25:56 AM
Hi Belly last nights meeting was very informative, we heard experiences of how really it could be too late once a supermarket say Tesco purchases the site.  There were people at the meeting who gave experiences of Tesco just purchasing the land, refused planning, demolishing the buildings and opening the land up as a free car park with just a chain fence round , full of holes and left in a state of disrepair.  It was left like that until local residents were begging the LA to have the eyesore developed, then Tesco in this instance gained planning permission a built their store.   All I do know is no one can stop Tesco purchasing the Land but what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College.  Neil Corrie is attempting to find out this information via FOI and other people at the meeting are possibly at this min trying to find the answer
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 23, 2011, 11:58:34 AM
Hi Belly last nights meeting was very informative, we heard experiences of how really it could be too late once a supermarket say Tesco purchases the site.  There were people at the meeting who gave experiences of Tesco just purchasing the land, refused planning, demolishing the buildings and opening the land up as a free car park with just a chain fence round , full of holes and left in a state of disrepair.  It was left like that until local residents were begging the LA to have the eyesore developed, then Tesco in this instance gained planning permission a built their store.   All I do know is no one can stop Tesco purchasing the Land but what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College.  Neil Corrie is attempting to find out this information via FOI and other people at the meeting are possibly at this min trying to find the answer
Tesco did something similar were I used to live
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 23, 2011, 02:17:55 PM
Irreverent post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 23, 2011, 02:37:43 PM
what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College. 

The college will be the owner of the land.  Sixth form colleges are 'owned' by autonomous corporations, which are completely independent of local authorities, although they usually have one or two local councillors on their boards.  You can read the minutes of past corporation meetings on the camsfc website. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 23, 2011, 10:47:09 PM
what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College. 

The college will be the owner of the land.  Sixth form colleges are 'owned' by autonomous corporations, which are completely independent of local authorities, although they usually have one or two local councillors on their boards.  You can read the minutes of past corporation meetings on the camsfc website. 

You are right Dave but there are stories that the land now owned by the college was gifted to the people of Marple in the past, rather like Memorial Park and the Recreation Ground. Both of those have covenants on them preventing the land being used for certain specified purposes and these can be quite powerful. It was the covenant on Memorial Park that prevented the park keepers cottage being sold for profit, or leased for business use. What people are trying to discover is whether there are similar covenants on this land and if the stories are true. There are also rumours that the green field and the car park areas cannot be built on. Opponents of the sale to a supermarket need to establish the truth about these rumours to determine if these things will help to fight the sale. Even if they don't, the facts may give support to the argument that the college has a moral obligation to consult with the community before it sells the land.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry on July 24, 2011, 08:49:33 AM
I think establishing whether or not there is a covenant on the land that restricts future use will be a key factor in the campaigning group's efforts to halt the Tesco plan. It is heartening that covenants were evoked re park keepers cottage in Memorial Park - I wonder if the local council enforced that? It would be great if the person from the action group responsible for checking out the covenant will have the info available in time for the area committee meeting, where council officials are present, so they can ask the council people exactly how they will enforce the covenant on the college land if there is one.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 09:24:51 AM
Hi Guy
People from Marple in Action will be looking at that, there is a wide range of knowledge within the group so it is hoped that the information will be sourced before  the councillors meeting on Wed evening. It was mention last night from someone living near ,the college that there is a possible link to Macnair gifting the land, but at this moment in time this is all hearsay   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 24, 2011, 09:29:07 AM
Might be worth asking Cllr Bispham, Miss M - in his letter to you of 13 June he wrote 'In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities', so it sounds as though he may know something about it, or at least know where to find out?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 09:47:21 AM
Hi Dave I did ask Mr Hubert about this and he said that all the covenant involves is that the college has to provide some form of sports facility and youth activity , like a youth centre which he pointed out they already had but to his knowledge the youth club was no longer in use ( maybe it should start being used)   My gut feeling is that we are way behind the supermarkets in all this and the promise of the new swimming
 pool and gym facility which has been promised by a supermarket  for the Buxton Road College may address the covenant, it shouldn't work like that I know but money is a powerful tool.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 09:50:42 AM
Might be worth asking Cllr Bispham, Miss M - in his letter to you of 13 June he wrote 'In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities', so it sounds as though he may know something about it, or at least know where to find out?
Since the knowledge of the bids for the college nearly all my emails to councillors are not answered
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 24, 2011, 10:39:10 AM
At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, this is a complex issue, and we need to research it thoroughly, and learn from what has happened elsewhere when a new supermarket has been built close to local shops.  And it's important to differentiate between what happens when a supermarket is built close to a town centre, as may happen here, and what happens when they are built at 'out-of-town' shopping centres - the issues and the impact seem to be very different. 

Here's a short but quite relevant thread from another forum, started by someone in Bolsover, and it looks to be a fairly similar situation to our own.  http://www.civicvoice.org.uk/forums/viewthread/46/

And this link is to a research report conducted by Southampton University. It costs £50 to read the full report, but you can read the executive summary for free.  But beware - it seems to have been commissioned by Tesco! http://www.riben.org.uk/report/Executive_summary.pdf

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 12:08:29 PM
There has been a lot of interest from local people who I have directed to this site   If anyone new to this forum is following  this thread feels that they have the skills, knowledge or can offer legal assistance please register on the forum and pass on your details to either myself or Admin. You can do this by sending a personal message if you do not want to share information on an open forum.  PLEASE IF YOU CAN OFFER ANY SUPPORT DO SO BECAUSE TIME IS TICKING BY   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 12:22:10 PM
Might be worth asking Cllr Bispham, Miss M - in his letter to you of 13 June he wrote 'In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities', so it sounds as though he may know something about it, or at least know where to find out?
Since the knowledge of the bids for the college nearly all my emails to councillors are not answered
UPDATED.

I have just received an email from Sue Ingham Cllr that she thinks that the meeting was on 27th June but she was not in attendance.  Ms Ingham states that the councillors had the meeting to clarify the colleges position with regards to the sale of the land.
Cllr Bispham has also replied this morning
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 24, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
Hi

The town where Tesco had been trying to get planning for a number of years is Prestatyn. Below is the 'positive spin' put on the planning permission approval in a press release from January 2011. It demonstrates how long the big supermarket developers will bide their time (15 years) and how much the proposed development increased in that time, and affect it had on public opinion when left vacant for that length of time. The land  was turned into a temporary free car park (not a very nice one - more of an eyesore).

Denbighshire County Council’s planning committee gave the green light yesterday to a proposal to build a Tesco store and a number of retail units which could house big High Street names such as Boots, Next and Debenhams, near Prestatyn town centre.
The five hectare development, which will also include a petrol filling station and car parking for nearly 800 cars, will be sited on former industrial and commercial land between High Street and Nant Hall Road.
A bid to redevelop the site has been on the table in some shape or form for more than 15 years.
The latest version is a combination of two developments originally approved on two adjoining sites, one by Tesco and the other for Somerfield, who inherited the Kwik Save complex.
The Tesco plan was first approved in 2000 but there then followed a lengthy legal wrangle, with Stadium Prestatyn Ltd receiving permission in 2008.
The Yorkshire-based firm built Parc Llandudno, and the massive Meadowhall complex in Sheffield.
Approval, supported almost unanimously by councillors, was subject to a number of conditions, which include an assurance that work would begin within two years and work is carried out to preserve listed railway buildings.
Prestatyn East councillor James Davies acknowledged concerns raised by town residents about the impact a scheme of this scale would have on the existing road network and on people living in the Parc Bodnant estate but, gave the plan his support.
Another Prestatyn member Julian Thompson-Hill said the saga had gone on for too long.
“The blight we have had on Prestatyn in the last 15 years has been absolutely dreadful and we do need to get this resolved,” he added.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 24, 2011, 02:29:46 PM
That's very interesting catwoman, and relevant in two respects:

1.  Prestatyn is another place where many people drive about five miles away to do their major food shopping - in their case, to Rhyl, as opposed to Bredbury or Hazel Grove in our case.  (Rhyl has three major supermarkets: Asda, Morrison's and Sainsbury's)
2.  That development, like the possible one here, is close to the town centre, not 'out-of-town'.   

The question is, will that be good for other shops in Prestatyn, or not.  The local MP seems to think it will - here's the next bit of the press release, which for some reason you left out ;-)

Vale of Clwyd MP Chris Ruane welcomed the news that planning permission had been granted.  The development would be “good” for the town’s business association and the extra footfall generated should “help others prosper“, he said.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 24, 2011, 07:59:38 PM
Apologies, I thought I had copied and pasted the press release
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
I have emailed the councillors to put the sale of the college under any other business so that the subject will be dealt with on the night in line with council rules
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 10:25:04 PM
Marple on Action began a leaflet drop yesterday in Marple to alert the community to the  possible sale of the college to a supermarket.  The leaflet gave information as to how to contact this site and details of the Area Committee Meeting on Wed
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 24, 2011, 11:26:33 PM
That's good news on the leaflet drop, hopefully means a good turnout for the meeting this week.

Was thinking about how big the existing Hibbert Lane buildings are compared to the Tesco Extra in Stockport (the one where Tesco ignored planning agreements and built it 20% larger than agreed (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesco-riding-roughshod-over-planning-rules-mps-are-told-518601.html)), so that we could gauge roughly how big the store might be in Marple, if it were to get approved etc.

Answer : fairly similar.  The Hibbert Lane site might actually be bigger, in terms of existing building size.  Note that the Stockport site has a rather large car park, far bigger than the Hibbert Lane site could accomodate.

The Stockport site benefits from being near to a motorway, so no issues with traffic congestion.  Hibbert Lane, on the other hand, doesn't have such road infrastructure nearby.

Hibbert Lane (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=hibbert+lane,+uk&hl=en&ll=53.390933,-2.06706&spn=0.002703,0.004903&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.945758,80.332031&t=h&z=18)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7480/hl4h.jpg)

Stockport (Portwood) (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=stockport&hl=en&ll=53.415786,-2.152945&spn=0.005403,0.009806&sll=53.390933,-2.06706&sspn=0.002703,0.004903&t=h&z=17)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3339/stock2m.jpg)

(Both images found using maps.google.com and using 100ft scale)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 25, 2011, 09:17:44 AM
That's really interesting, sgk.  If you look at the entire Hibbert Lane site on Google maps, it's surprisingly big - it actually looks to be a similar size to the entire Tesco Extra site at Portwood, including the huge car park.  And although the present camsfc car park is much smaller than Tesco's , there's a sizeable grassy area behind it which could easily become part of an enlarged car park.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 25, 2011, 11:51:43 AM
That is interesting. Being a former CAMSFC student I know the size of the building is fair and have a feeling they would do as big store as they could get away with.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 25, 2011, 08:31:57 PM
We've had a response from the college concerning two Freedom Of Information requests.

Covenants relating to the college campus (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#incoming-196517)

Building of supermarket on existing college site (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/building_of_supermarket_on_exist#incoming-196518)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 25, 2011, 08:49:37 PM
Concerning that "shown on the plan attached to the 1919 Conveyance (we do not have a copy of the plan)" line in the FOI response, the best image I can find right now is the 1934 plan on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html (http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html).

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2457/hlold.jpg) (http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2457/hlold.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 26, 2011, 09:11:59 AM
Thanks Neil - more fascinating stuff there!

This bit is particularly interesting:  Not to erect or suffer to be erected on such part of the land adjoining Macclesfield Canal any Mill Manufactory or any building to be used as trade works.
...... as it reveals that the 1925 conveyance was for a bigger area of land than the one now occupied by camsfc, which does not extend all the way to the canal.  That must be the land now occupied by the housing on Mount Drive. 

And this bit at the end of the response: There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site
.....can't be anything to do with the 1925 covenants.   They must refer to conditions placed by SMBC on the transfer of the land from the local authority to Ridge Danyers College (as it was called then), back in the 1990s.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 26, 2011, 04:47:03 PM
Tomorrow nights meeting will now be first on the agenda.   So please make the effort to come along. Marple in Action has delivered over 2,500 leaflets informing everyone as much as they can about tomorrow nights council meeting.  If there are any local shops reading this it is important for you to come along and show opposition to any development on that site that will see the demise of our community and loss of local shops not to mention the increase in traffic
We need to show whatever supermarket giant that we are united in wanting to retain our village type way of life. 
Looking forward and hoping to seeing a huge turnout tomorrow night  ;D

SPREAD THE WORD
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 26, 2011, 07:16:02 PM
looks like word is spreading around Marple which is great!  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 26, 2011, 07:24:52 PM
I was near Hibbert Lane roundabout the other day and this absolutely massive articulated truck came up Hibbert Lane and did a full turn on the roundabout to go back down Hibbert Lane. Everybody around stopped in their tracks because the sight was so astonishing. I have never seen a truck so big in Marple, I think it was something to do with Travis Perkins.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 26, 2011, 07:47:02 PM
Marple in Action has delivered over 2,500 leaflets informing everyone as much as they can about tomorrow nights council meeting. 

For those who have not seen the leaflet yet, is it worth posting a copy of it (or link to picture of it) here and via the "just the facts" thread ?  And have you a few copies for the speakers and audience tomorrow ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 26, 2011, 08:01:57 PM
Local blogger and Marple fan "MarpleLeaf" has posted some opinions on the supermarket situation and possible implications for Marple folk on his blog (http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/07/supermarket-on-hibbert-lane-in-marple.html).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 26, 2011, 08:30:39 PM
I haven't seen any leaflets, could someone post it?

The email above is good but the part about the health centre; who would fund this? There are lots of things we would all like on that land but we won't ever get it just by suggesting it.  Also the term 'lovely' seems out of place and it doesn't mention the fact that the two supermarkets we already have are both co-op. It is a good argument but not really convincing enough. The supermarket could offer to sort out the traffic round the area, they need to come up with counter arguments for things like that too and cover everything.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 26, 2011, 08:42:32 PM
I was near Hibbert Lane roundabout the other day and this absolutely massive articulated truck came up Hibbert Lane and did a full turn on the roundabout to go back down Hibbert Lane. Everybody around stopped in their tracks because the sight was so astonishing. I have never seen a truck so big in Marple, I think it was something to do with Travis Perkins.
            Just shows a tesco lorry would do it easy .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 26, 2011, 08:42:41 PM
The leaflet was simply to raise awareness of the meeting tomorrow and to introduce people to this website so that they could acquaint themselves with the story so far. Apologies if you didn't receive a leaflet; there's only so many hours in a day due to work commitments etc  ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on July 26, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
I was near Hibbert Lane roundabout the other day and this absolutely massive articulated truck came up Hibbert Lane and did a full turn on the roundabout to go back down Hibbert Lane. Everybody around stopped in their tracks because the sight was so astonishing. I have never seen a truck so big in Marple, I think it was something to do with Travis Perkins.
            Just shows a tesco lorry would do it easy .

40' trailers used to go to Goyt Mill regularly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on July 26, 2011, 09:12:03 PM
i object to any supermarket or housing being built on this site,theres litrally thousands of houses for sale around marple etc,cant see how building more will improove anything.
dont let them build on any fields in marple,i grew up in heaton moor and watched all the feilds and farms dissapear under bricks and morter,whats next a drive through mcdonalds on hawk green field ??? you think im kidding....... i aint
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 26, 2011, 10:08:50 PM
Marple in Action has delivered over 2,500 leaflets informing everyone as much as they can about tomorrow nights council meeting.

For those who have not seen the leaflet yet, is it worth posting a copy of it (or link to picture of it) here and via the "just the facts" thread ?  And have you a few copies for the speakers and audience tomorrow ?

Hopefully I've attached a pdf of the leaflet!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 26, 2011, 10:34:41 PM
There will be three other  people plus myself attending the meeting tomorrow with the Principle and Mr Hubert finance  I thought it best to take along members of other concerned groups for this important meeting. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 26, 2011, 10:36:57 PM
Hopefully I've attached a pdf of the leaflet!

Thanks Belle Star : for those without a PDF viewer, here's a pic of said leaflet.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9190/flyery.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9190/flyery.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marveld on July 27, 2011, 10:02:21 AM
Can someone please help me out here?  Susan Ingham, chair of the Area Committee, has stated:
.
Quote
It is true that the College intend to sell the Hibbert Lane Campus and as an independent commercial organisation they are free to do whatever they believe is in the College’s best interest and the Council has no jurisdiction in that respect.  As I understand it they have been in talks with various supermarkets and developers, but nothing has been agreed at this stage. As far as planning permission goes, the Council Planning department is clear that the land in question is designated as housing.  No retail development would be given consent outside the District Centre. The Hibbert Lane campus falls outside the District Centre and therefore any a planning application to develop a retail site is likely to be refused.
.
A key word that I picked up on was likely. If the Council Planning department is clear that the Hibbert Lane Campus is only designated for housing, why is it only likely that a retail site would be refused? Can someone ask Councillor Ingham (or another Councillor) at the meeting tonight, under what circumstances the Council would go ahead and grant retail permission? (I am unable to attend)
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bartlett on July 27, 2011, 10:07:47 AM
I unfortunately live next to the field in question.  It bad enough when the bin men come to the college at 4 a.m. on Thursday mornings.  The sound travels across the field so imagine what it like when there will be deliveries every day.

I also heard whilst doing my shopping that they are thinking of knocking down the baths and another shop to accommodate the lorries.  I can only imagine this is why they spent so much money on dan bank.

I have had a letter from Andrew Stunell confirming that no planning permission has been applied for yet!  How much money does this council need.  There is something that quite shocked me in that they receive the same council tax from me as they do from every residential flat in Marple, so taking into account that there are four residential flats areas in Marple they take on average £200,000.00 per year in council tax alone from these flats and then when the bad weather comes they do not clear the pavements or the walkways so that they can get out and buy food to survive.  Mr Stunell was sent emails and nothing happened.

I also feel sorry for all the local shops.  How are they going to survive when it is difficult enough to park in Marple but that you also have to pay.  If Tesco does build here it will be free car parking so why wouold anyone go into Marple.  We need to support our local shops and not let this happen to them.

I the people who live on the other side of the precinct want a supermarket, then have it near you and not next to my house where it will devalue my property and cause major polution to the area.

Why not move Marple Hall School to the College (as it use to be a school) and knock down Marple Hall School and built it there.  We could at least have a good swimming pool and leisure centre instead of what we have now.  After all the money that should have been spent on Marple was spent on Romily baths instead.  Surprise this is where Mr Stunell lives.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: pjarvis98 on July 27, 2011, 10:53:21 AM
..... This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P
Have you looked up in the ladies changing rooms, thick mould growing everywhere! tiles falling off the walls while I'm trying to change my children for lessons. A new pool would be fantastic but not at the expense of a tesco!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 27, 2011, 11:13:35 AM
I think that anyone who opposes the building of a new supermarket in Marple but drives to a supermarket outside Marple to do their "big shop" is on shaky ground here.

Why does everyone assume that the small shops in the centre of Marple will suffer if or when a new supermarket comes? Does everyone do their supermarket shopping for heavy groceries and their visits to the hardware shop at the same time? I (and I suspect many working people with a family) would continue to do a large supermarket shop on one evening and a visit to the local shops on a different day. Do people go to a supermarket to buy nails, screws, wood or paint ... or do they go to Hollins? I think that the local shops would actually benefit from having less vehicular traffic in the centre of Marple. I would shop at a new supermarket but use the other non-grocery shops at least as much as before.

The only business to suffer would be the Co-op and, to be honest, their "ethical" credentials have gone out of the window by refusing to let any competing supermarket take over the Hanbury's store, whilst their retailing credentials have been lost by their pricing and their complete inability to keep their shelves stacked.

As for the College, they have to expand because the government has decreed that all young people now have to stay in education until age 18. They also have to replace some dated buildings with very little available cash. Are we going to oppose a good sixth-form education for our children?

We could oppose a new supermarket on the grounds of some nostalgic attachment to "small shops" or we could move forward, making sure that the benefits (to the environment, education, well-being of local citizens) are greater than the losses. Better to be part of the design and planning of a new development than just to oppose it "on principle".
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on July 27, 2011, 11:22:09 AM
If Tesco promise new facilities, don't hold your breath. The article below (taken from Tescopoly website) shows how long they took to build the promised doctor's surgery in Burnage when they built their store there in 2005.

I grew up in Burnage and am now saddened to see how the once thriving shops in the area have gone downhill mainly I believe due to the Tesco store. I don't want this to happen here. And don't get me started on traffic and pollution issues.

To Hollins - Tesco sell much more than food. Many small shops selling hardware, electricals and clothing will see a reduction in footfall.

http://menmedia.co.uk/southmanchesterreporter/news/s/1028230_doctors_are_running_out_of_patience (http://menmedia.co.uk/southmanchesterreporter/news/s/1028230_doctors_are_running_out_of_patience)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 27, 2011, 12:05:15 PM
Members from 'Marple in Action' will be going to speak with the Principal later this afternoon to gather information if possible as to what the land is going to be used for.  Marple in Action have worked extremely hard over the past week and feel that we have now got to the stage whereby the community needs to support us by coming along to tonights meeting.   Please please do not rely on information just being put on this site because it's now about showing the councillors, planning dept and any supermarket with an interest, who will more than likely be monitoring this site with intrest, that they are not welcome.  The only way to show this is to attend the meeting, it's bums on seats now that will drive this campaign forward.  An hour of your time will prove more useful than any poll or web site,  the press will be there this evening, so if you care as much as I do about Marple and our village type way of life.  You must attend tonight please !  Let's show all that need reminding that It's Not Happining !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bartlett on July 27, 2011, 12:32:52 PM
Jane Horrocks is clearly not worried about biting the hand that used to feed her, as she's been rather harsh on Tesco customers in a new interview.

Speaking to the Radio Times, the actress admitted she doesn't usually shop in the supermarket chain, despite having appeared as the face of Tesco for a decade.

The 47-year-old actress bought her house in south-west London - which she calls "Tesco Towers" - with the money she earned appearing in the ads, admitted she found it "scary" to shop there.


"There's always a set type of people doing their shopping according to the time or the day, whether it's pensioners holding everyone up or screeching kids.

''Or sometimes you can have rather a lot of chavs in, and that gets a bit scary."
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 01:14:45 PM
I think that anyone who opposes the building of a new supermarket in Marple but drives to a supermarket outside Marple to do their "big shop" is on shaky ground here.

Why does everyone assume that the small shops in the centre of Marple will suffer if or when a new supermarket comes? Does everyone do their supermarket shopping for heavy groceries and their visits to the hardware shop at the same time? I (and I suspect many working people with a family) would continue to do a large supermarket shop on one evening and a visit to the local shops on a different day. Do people go to a supermarket to buy nails, screws, wood or paint ... or do they go to Hollins? I think that the local shops would actually benefit from having less vehicular traffic in the centre of Marple. I would shop at a new supermarket but use the other non-grocery shops at least as much as before.

The only business to suffer would be the Co-op and, to be honest, their "ethical" credentials have gone out of the window by refusing to let any competing supermarket take over the Hanbury's store, whilst their retailing credentials have been lost by their pricing and their complete inability to keep their shelves stacked.

As for the College, they have to expand because the government has decreed that all young people now have to stay in education until age 18. They also have to replace some dated buildings with very little available cash. Are we going to oppose a good sixth-form education for our children?

We could oppose a new supermarket on the grounds of some nostalgic attachment to "small shops" or we could move forward, making sure that the benefits (to the environment, education, well-being of local citizens) are greater than the losses. Better to be part of the design and planning of a new development than just to oppose it "on principle".

Some very sensible points here.  The only thing I would take issue with is the reference to the College's plans being about growth.  Actually I don't believe they are - it's mainly about replacing some outdated  and unsuitable old school buildings.  They were built, on the cheap, in the mid-20th century for an 11-16 secondary school.  Surrounded by largely unused playing fields, they now provide unsatisfactory accommodation for a 16-18 6th form college, which requires completely different facilities.   Go and see the excellent Cheadle campus of camsfc - it's an eye-opener, and will make you realise how much Marple young people are being educated as second-class citizens.  And as for the Marple councillor (who shall be nameless) who announced to the Stockport Express that 'the land was given to the college to provide further education', and that selling it to a supermarket would be a 'scandal', that is an extraordinary thing for a councillor to say.  ::) How exactly does HE propose that we should improve the educational facilities for the children and grandchildren of the people who voted for him?   Or does he think second-best is good enough for the likes of us? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 27, 2011, 02:49:29 PM
Quote

Go and see the excellent Cheadle campus of camsfc - it's an eye-opener, and will make you realise how much Marple young people are being educated as second-class citizens.  

Why was the Cheadle campus modernised and not the Marple one? Or is there a hidden agenda to close or reduce the number of courses at the Marple site.
When the colleges were combined it was because the Marple College was seen as having a long term future and sufficient student numbers, while the Cheadle college was struggling for pupils. The wider Marple community might now have to pay for the mismanagement by the Governing Body, they appear to have taken their eyes off Marple and concentrated too much on Cheadle. Anyone know where the Governors come from, I know the Principal lives in Stoke.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 03:01:30 PM
Like the Marple campuses (campi?), the Cheadle campus of camsfc was originally housed in former school buildings.  In the 1990s, one of them was found to be structurally unsafe, due to decaying reinforced concrete.  It was therefore demolished, and replaced with a nice new building which opened about ten years ago.  That's all.  No hidden agendas, mismanagement or conspiracies - boring isn't it  ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 27, 2011, 09:26:12 PM
Representatives of Marple in Action today attended a meeting with Ms Cassidy (Principal) and Mr Hubert (Finance) of CAMSFC. We were told that they have considered many options for the sale of the Hibbert Lane site and that YES they were now only considering the supermarket option. They would not disclose which supermarkets have made bids but confirm there are 2 in the running and they have a "favourite". The sale will be subject to planning permission for both the supermarket on Hibbert Lane AND the redevelopment and extension of the Buxton Lane campus but they expect to sign a contract mid-October after their next Governors Board Meeting. Apparently they have taken advice on the likelihood of obtaining planning permission, bearing in mind the site is currently zoned for residential use, and have been advised by their legal team that this change of use would not be in breach of planning law!
Following on from this, we attended the Marple Area Committee meeting and were amazed by the turnout from local residents. Approximately 300 people forced the Councillors to abandon the Senior Citizens Hall and hold their first ever open air meeting in Memorial Park. The Councillors knew less than the people of Marple! So, thank you to those who gave up their valuable time to voice their concerns over this most important and now urgent of local issues. You, the people of Marple, have delivered a clear message to the Councillors that MARPLE is indeed IN ACTION!!! This is only the beginning. Keep spreading the word, and keep all eyes on this website as we develop our own webpage and action plan, and for news of the next meeting.
WHAT A TEAM!!!   ;)

(http://www.marple-uk.com/front.png)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 27, 2011, 09:51:53 PM
Like the Marple campuses (campi?), the Cheadle campus of camsfc was originally housed in former school buildings.  In the 1990s, one of them was found to be structurally unsafe, due to decaying reinforced concrete.  It was therefore demolished, and replaced with a nice new building which opened about ten years ago.  That's all.  No hidden agendas, mismanagement or conspiracies - boring isn't it  ;)



But now we are in a position that to modernise the Marple site there is no straightforward 'replace with a nice new building'.  Despite a merger supposedly making financial sense, the Marple site has to lose the main functioning arm of the college in this area in order to raise the capital to rebuild completely.  Wilst this is clearly not 'mismanagement', it's safe to say that as a result of a merger supposedly offering improved conditions to a good student population in Marple, the wider community will now suffer.
Dave I know you're one of the few to have spoken against it, and respect your opinions, but we are told tonight that the site is very large, at 9 acres, and that from Marple In Action it is looking like the site will be sold to a big retailer, following the meeting with the College today.
Whatever way you look at it, the College's requirement for funds has not been aided by this merger, and the sale of the site to raise capital may longer terms have a negative effect.  If the proposed academy status is granted to Marple Hall and they start providing sixth form, reduced operations on the Marple campus could spell a move of a lot of services to Cheadle.
Looking at Tameside College as a case in point, the merger there with Hyde Clarendon and Ashton sites has had a massive impact on the Hyde centre.  It was a well established provider of A levels, merged with a slightly more affluent neighbour, and then sold land off to Greater Manchester Police to raise funds.  Now it's a fraction of the provider it was, and Ashton booms.  Obviously this is a side issue.  You are obviously pro supermarket.  I disagree strongly with your summation that it will be sufficiently small to have a positive effect on traffic, and disagree that everything is hunky dory with the way the finances have been handled after the merger.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 27, 2011, 10:33:06 PM
Having witnessed the fantastic support by the people of Marple at the Area Committee Meeting tonight makes me hopeful that we could succeed in overturning this ridiculous proposal.

I have said in a previous post that the only way to prevail is by the concerted action of the community as a whole working as one. I am pleased to say that this seems to be happening and I only hope that the people of Marple have the staying power and the will to continue on what may become a long and drawn out process. The College must now take note of public reaction and respond accordingly.

Well done Marple!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 27, 2011, 10:57:37 PM
First of all, I would like to say as a founder member and foot soldier of Marple in Action a huge thankyou to every one of you,who gave up their time to support our objection to a major supermarket  blighting our small town.The response has been phenomanal. We in Marple have almost everything we need. I personally could not or want for more.I gained a lot of feedback from people who live near the proposed supermarket.Their concerns were that their homes would no longer be looking over a field, who can blame them,I for one would not like the prospect of floodlights at night attracting possible anti-social behaviour as happens on a regular basis at Morrisons at Bredbury.Like a moth to a flame.A member of my family suffered terrible problems whilst living on Smithy Green due to youths passing her property to congregate on the morrisons car park.Those people often had their cars vandalised nightly.She has since moved out of that area.Marple Syrup, you have raised some valid points concerning the Hyde college.If the Marple college was to close after the sale of the Hibbert Lane site all this would of been a nonsense at the expense of local business,property devaluation and general unrest amongst us. tonight saw approx 3OO people.From Acorns grow might Oaks!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 27, 2011, 10:58:17 PM
The wider Marple community might now have to pay for the mismanagement by the Governing Body, they appear to have taken their eyes off Marple and concentrated too much on Cheadle. Anyone know where the Governors come from, I know the Principal lives in Stoke.

Conveniently, there is no longer a councillor on the board of governors (despite the College website insisting Cllr Margaret McLay (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=44) is still a governor), so I've submitted a FOI to find out the accurate list.

Current governors (draft list, awaiting true list from college via FOI)

Lawrie Grant        Chair
Trevor Jones        Deputy Chair
Christina Cassidy   Principal
Adrian Clare        Governor
Ian Doughty         Parent
Stephen Downs       Governor
Sandra Dunn         Staff
Anand Dutta         Governor
Mike Gledhill       Governor
Cllr Margaret McLay Governor
Phil Masey          Student
Karen Moore         Governor
Ian Powell          Staff
Richard Young       Governor

    
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 27, 2011, 11:04:53 PM
Nice work Neil, Thanks for your commitment.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 11:14:31 PM
I attended the open-air meeting in the park this evening.  Unfortunately I had to leave after an hour, but until that point a senior officer from SMBC Planning Dept was dealing clearly and calmly with the issues.  It would be nice to report that everyone else was clear and calm, but sadly that was not the case   >:(

The planning officer was keen to emphasise that if a planning application for a big supermarket were to be submitted, it would be very unlikely to be approved.

The prevailing mood seemed to be strongly opposed to the idea of a new supermarket in Marple, and the councillors who were present were more or less cornered into agreeing to oppose the idea.  There appeared to be about 300 people there.  That leaves a mere 23,100 residents of Marple who were not present - let's hope their opinions are taken into account as well! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 27, 2011, 11:23:46 PM
Come of it Dave,There are  probably 2O,OOO who unaware of the Major supermarket threat! It was a small number of us who alerted as many people as we could in less than five days.Not bad going eh?  Duck,take cover Trix!! note to ones self.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 27, 2011, 11:37:15 PM
Marple in Action are aware that some people may not have use of the Internet  to gain up to date information so we now have a dedicated phone number 07790419494 whereby concerned residents can leave a message and someone will ring back and take details to add to our mailing list , this number will also be published in the  press  It was also noted that some of our residents with mobility issues   who attended tonights  meeting had difficulty so it is hoped that for the public meeting which is to be held very soon, we will have organised a car pool.  Once again thank you all for your involvement tonight!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 27, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
I am concerned as most people on this forum are but agree we need to have cohesive and structured arguments to respond-simply stating "we do not want it" will not get us anywhere.  Arguments re pollution, traffic and safety for the community as a result, detriment to property prices in the surrounding areas, detriment to the village community etc all need to be considered.

See attached link for likely response from Tesco to any objections we may raise-may be useful to think of replies in the interim!

http://www.tesco.com/talkingtesco/response/?page=article25

Apologies to anyone who has already read this or if it is already posted on the forum.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 27, 2011, 11:54:11 PM
At today's meeting someone queried where the councillors lived, and whether they would be impacted.

Quick plot using Google Maps (http://maps.google.com) and the publicly available councillor addresses at Stockport Council website (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeMailingList.aspx?EM=1&ID=0) is below.  Click the image for a larger (readable) version.

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7724/councillors2.png) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7724/councillors2.png)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 27, 2011, 11:58:29 PM
Local blogger MarpleLeaf raises some interesting points on his blog (http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/07/anger-rises-over-marple-college-sell.html) following tonight's meeting, and some pictures of the crowds in attendance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 28, 2011, 12:25:21 AM
Not able to attend the meeting tonight, so many thanks for all the reports and links published on this forum.

A couple of points/questions:-

1. From a selfish point of view, I live off Buxton Lane opposite the College, one thing that as not been  
   detailed is what the proposed new extension of the college would consist of! Surely there are restrictions
   on what can be built on the existing land at the Buxton Lane campus ?
   The thought of the increased student population and associated cars etc would be a nightmare. Have
   you ever see what it's like on a open evening? You struggle to park outside your own property.

2. Two years now since Peacefield school was closed and nothing built or planned as yet on the land.
    Call me suspicious but is there a link?

3. When Peacefield was rumoured to be closing I sent out many e mails to local councillors and our MP.
    I did not get a response from any Councillor, but I did get a response from our MP.
    To be honest during the Peacefield/Dale closure process the attitude of our council members was lousy.
    With them all being Lib Dem's they all seemed more interested in sticking to the Party line than helping or
    conversing with local community.
    The good thing about this campaign is that it seems to have started relatively early in the process
    before the plan is set in stone.

4.  Regarding the need for a another big supermarket in Marple, it's not needed. We have managed so far
    without and I personally would rather travel 4 miles for a weekly shop & then drive home to the
    relatively nice quiet area I have chose to live in.
    

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Coollattin on July 28, 2011, 12:33:16 AM
If ever you needed an indication of how much in touch with the views of Marple residents the council are, the choice of Marple Library for tonight's meeting should give you a clue. To make matters worse, I found their use of the war memorial as a podium disrespectful  :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 12:48:45 AM
And this is how it works.  Manningtree (leafy little town) and their Tesco battle.  This isn't a pessimistic "we're doomed" posting, merely an overview of Tesco/Council tactics, so we're forewarned.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 01:45:37 AM
Yes we have been burning the midnight oil, but we needed to plan our next course of action which will be mass demonstrations outside the college   Dates and times will be circulated
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 28, 2011, 04:05:40 AM
This post contained copies of two emails sent by Christina Cassidy to her staff earlier this year on April 7 and then on May 9.

I received a request to remove them from Andrew Hubert of Cheadle and Marple College at 1.20pm today (28 July 2011). Andrew provided a copy of the CAMSFC Disclaimer that the he says accompanied the original emails when they were sent out to college staff, which I have pasted below:

CAMSFC DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is intended to be addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the College. If you have received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying or disclose of its contents to any other person is strictly prohibited, please notify the sender immediately, by responding to this message and then deleting it from your system. The College nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email.

I have sought advice regarding the legal position on this and have been advised to comply with the college's request. Admin.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mike Whittaker on July 28, 2011, 07:46:04 AM
I attended the meeting last night and I am completely opposed to a retail development on the hibbert lane campus. I live on hibbert lane opposite the existing college car park.
I have written a personal letter to the college explaining my lack of support for their actions and I urge every other resident to do the same.

The big issue for me is the sale of the land. Once sold I believe, as someone pointed out at last nights meeting, that it will only be a matter of time before something is built or the site becomes derelict and an eyesore.

The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

As I see it we have until October to make a real impact with the college. They are clearly thinking with their hands in their pockets rather than with their heads.

Below is a copy of my letter to the governors, write you own. Hand deliever it, send it to each of the governors and put the ball in their court. Remember a pro forma letter or template letter gets a proforma/template response.

Hopefully they will see sense, they clearly are prepared for any confrontation from members of the public (in the form of legitimate demonstration), as demonstrated by MIA's meeting with them yesterday.



Ridge Danyers College
Marple
Stockport
Cheshire

28/07/2011
Dear Governor

I am Michael Whittaker and I am a local resident living on Hibbert lane, Marple. I live opposite the Hibbert Lane campus of Ridge Danyers College.

I am aware that you are currently in negotiations with third parties, specifically supermarket businesses, in regards to the sale of the Hibbert lane Campus. I understand that this sale is to fund the expansion and development of the Buxton Lane Campus. I understand at this time that this is the only option you are looking at to get the monies you require for the expansion project.

I understand the necessity for the development of the educational facilities that you supply, as I was a student of yours some 10 years ago now, but I am deeply disappointed by the way in which you are willing to get the funds.

I believe that ethically and morally the sale of this land, for the reason stated, would not be in keeping with why you were given the land in the first place. I believe this land was given to you to use as a resource for something beneficial for Marple. It was given to you in good faith on the premise of it being used for education.

In selling it to a supermarket chain I believe you are acting in an unethical and immoral way, which will be to your material gain and to the detriment of Marple.

I am completely opposed to the Hibbert lane site becoming a Supermarket or retail site. I feel that this would be detrimental to Marple in a lot of ways. Examples of this include effects on local residents, local businesses and traffic.

To be more specific, I believe that a supermarket will mean increased traffic in the Marple area and Hibbert lane in its immediacy. This will have a direct effect on commuters and I include my wife and myself in that as we commute to Stretford and Didsbury through peak times when the proposed development would be open. I believe that this would be dangerous to the residents of Marple and your own students. It wasn’t that long ago that one of your students was knocked down outside my house by a car. It is already a busy road.

I have two young children under 4 years old. It is already dangerous for them to cross the road. We do not need the extra traffic.

I am also concerned that our volunteer emergency services personnel will be massively hindered in “turning out” to emergency calls from members of the public. If you were not already aware Marple Fire station is staffed by retained fire-fighters on nights and weekends. This dedicated group of people live within our community. Some on or around Hibbert lane, all of them within a Marple boundary set to enable them to attend the station in the case of an emergency within a set period of time. A retail outlet would directly effect this as the peak time for any retail establishment will be at nights and weekends. I can tell you as an ex fire fighter, it is already hard enough work getting to the station in the event of an emergency at these times, it will only be made worse by the inclusion of retail consumer traffic. Literally lives could be put at risk.

I believe that a supermarket, the likes of Tescos, Asda, Sainsburys etc would be detrimental to the already struggling local businesses within the town centre. I believe it will have a direct effect on them including closure of many of them as a supermarket will offer the same or similar products for cheaper prices. This will decay Marple town centre and ruin what is a community business area.
In my case, as a resident, I will be disturbed by HGV movements in relation to deliveries to the proposed site, increased traffic and noise.  I will be disturbed by the environmental lighting used to light the premises or car park. I will be upset by the site of a large supermarket on my front door step. I do not want a supermarket on my front door step.

I fully understand the need to develop the Buxton Lane campus but implore you to see sense and look to sell to the likes of a property developer or similar. Marple does not need a supermarket but it does need housing. I can accept this. The community will accept this. I understand that you may not get the same amount of money from this avenue, but you would retain both my wifes support and mine.
As it stands should your board meet in October as planned and move to agree to this sale I regret you will have lost our support.

I will oppose the plans for retail development should you continue to support this. I will do this by erecting a large sign outside my house, on my land to voice this. I recognise that other residents will also be doing this also. I will also support Marple In Action.
I will oppose your planning application in respect of your expansion of the Buxton Lane campus. I will do this by continuing to follow the planning application process and voicing my views at area committee meetings.

I will support the Marple Hall Academy bid in an effort to increase competition for your college.

I will ensure that my two children do not attend your college, as I did, and instead go to another college\Marple Hall Academy.

I will ensure that given any issue arising from either the expansion of your Buxton lane campus or your students themselves I will be reporting to the relevant authorities. I have previously tolerated littering, abuse, poor driving, illegal parking and damage to my property.

I will personally make life as difficult as possible for Ridge Danyers in respect of any support that you may require in the future.

You need to know that these feelings are echoed by many other residents in Marple. On Wednesday 27th July 2011 an area committee meeting was held at 1800hrs in Marple Memorial Park. So strong was the support, that the venue was not big enough and council committee members were forced to take unprecedented action in speaking on the war memorial to a crowd of around 200 residents of all ages.

 I do not believe that this is a lost cause and again implore you to see sense and do the right thing. You still have the chance to vote no to this course of action in the Board meeting. You still have time to explore other avenues to fund your project.

You alone have the power to keep Marple the community spirited village it has grown into. You alone can take our interests on board and look to fund your new project ethically and with our support.

I wish to remain in Marple as it is a beautiful place to live, it is a great community. You need to realise that you are part of this community and should you choose to do something detrimental then you may find yourself without the community behind you. 

I am willing to meet with you to discuss this further if you deem it necessary. I would like a reply/acknowledgement of my letter in a timely fashion.


Yours Sincerely

Michael Whittaker
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on July 28, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness,also if the funding is not found to develope the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the errection of crossing barriers.I dont think this should be dismissed. ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bartlett on July 28, 2011, 08:45:11 AM
I have also today written to the college.

I understand from a source that * the houses behind the baths have received compulsory purchase orders.  These are not given by the college but by the Government.  *

[* unsubstantied accusations have been removed from this post. Admin]

Last night they just wanted us to think that all would be alright as they would not grant planning.  The fact that he would not be dealing with the planning and that it would be dealt with higher up than him was just false hope.

I wonder if anyone who is reading this who lives where the baths is can confirm that they have received such order.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 28, 2011, 09:03:41 AM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness

This is taken directly from www.tescopoly.org on the "basic facts about supermarkets" page

Supermarkets destroy local jobs. Supermarket claims that new stores bring in jobs fail to consider the wider picture of independent retailer bankruptcies. A 1998 study by the National Retailer Planning Forum (NRPF) examining the employment impacts of 93 superstore openings between 1991 and 1994 found that they resulted in a net loss of more than 25,000 jobs or 276 per store opened. More information on the impact of supermarkets on jobs is available in Chapter 13 of the Competition Commission report on the power of the supermarkets.

Quote
The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

A brilliant point and a brilliant post. Imagine if every Governor received 200 or more letters like Mike's!!!

Please, everyone who is against this proposal, GET WRITING!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 28, 2011, 09:41:24 AM
If you mean the road at the back of the baths then there are a few houses for sale on there. You would think that they wouldn't bother if they have compulsory purchase orders on them but you never know. Maybe they have been offered more to keep stum.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mike Whittaker on July 28, 2011, 09:51:10 AM
quote
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness,also if the funding is not found to develope the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the errection of crossing barriers.I dont think this should be dismissed.

In reply

I would argue that the coop has taken away from local business. They control the exhanburys establishment in an aim to control price and effectively monopolise the area. They now own the Somerfield/texaco garage, again controlling more of the market. I believe Iceland is the only competition. In some respects I blame the coop for their part in this issue with a new Supermarket. If it wasnt for their greed people wouldnt seek to find a cheaper alternative for their local shop.

With regards the further education aspect. I would love to support the college that I went to as a young adult and increase its facilities, but not at the current price/sacrifice. I would rather support the Academy status of Marple Hall which will still provide higher education services in the local area.

I wouldnt trust the planning commitee to make traffic flow more effective in marple. I have seen the erection of the crossing at hibbert lane near to the junction of A626. It is one of the worst designs I have seen. It borders in my opinion on dangerous. The effect of it is that people still cross at the mouth of the road, where it is natural but dangerous to cross.
A further example of this is the "add on" outiside the Pineapple pub on Church Lane. This acts more like a traffic obstacle, than a pedestrian crossing.

Getting back to the point though, I dont dismiss that there could be benfits to employment but I feel these would be more limited than Tesco would have you believe.

it is with the future generation, my son, my daughter and everyone elses children in mind that I oppose the tesco project. They may never know what a beautiful country side town existed on the outskirts of Manchester if we dont take a stand.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cross Laner! on July 28, 2011, 10:14:35 AM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasn't taken away all the local business,also if the funding is not found to develop the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the erection of crossing barriers.I don't think this should be dismissed. ;D

There would be additional employment, but not only Marple residents will be employed.  Remember Tescos have a clothing range, goodbye to M&Co, Pink Parrot, Tescos have a pharmacy, goodbye to Superdrug and possibly Boots, Tescos may put a 24 hr petrol station on site??, Tescos sell Paint, Hardware, DIY, goodbye Hollins, Homewares, DVDs, Flowers, Electrical goods, Butchery, goodbye Littlewoods & Whites, Bakery, goodbye Gregs and dare I suggest that even Archers may close, Fish Mongers.  Tescos will close down the vast majority of independent shops on Market Street -FACT.  Please don't think that competition is the way forward, open your eyes, independents cannot compete with the Majors, their buying power enables them to out price all and any 'competitors'.  There may be additional employment, but offset that against the many jobs lost in our community, we can't be sure that we wont actually be in a worse state.

Where local councillors are concerned, I wouldn't trust a word they say.  [Unsubstantiated accusations in this post have been removed. Admin].  I would keep dialogue with them, but only at arms length.  I saw 2 or 3 of them in action during the consultation period of Rose Hill Primary School and they conducted themselves appallingly.  Some of them believe that they can promise the world and not follow it through.  Marple belongs to its community and the way things are going there will be no community left for future generations.  Over recent years Marple has successfully brought its community together through Festivals etc.  These will become a thing of the past once Market Street becomes a ghost town.

NO to TESCO.     I will continue to watch this site for more information and look forward to giving my full support to MARPLE IN ACTION.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 10:15:50 AM
Interesting points above, about competition for camsfc from Marple Hall, if Marple Hall becomes an Academy and opens a new sixth form.

However, those using this as a stick to beat camsfc with should realise that it will probably have the opposite effect - if camsfc is competing directly with Marple Hall, it will be even more important for it to have shiny new facilities (as it already does at Cheadle) in order to attract Marple students.  

As it happens, I have been a college governor (not at camsfc), so I can see the issue from their point of view.   They are legally required to act in the best interests of the college, and they will argue that in this case, those are also the best interests of the community which the college  serves.  

Incidentally, anyone who intends writing to individual college governors should be aware that members of governing bodies can only act (or react) collectively.  So they will probably get one reply, which is likely to be from the Clerk to Governors on behalf of the entire board.   And by the way, it's always a good idea to use the correct name for the college  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bluebelly on July 28, 2011, 10:22:33 AM
i didnt realise that so few people, had the power to approve somthing of this magnitude. surley the council who are made up of people living in the area,would only give their approval if the people wanted the development.i for one origanally voted for a supermarket, but after reading all the info thats been provided have changed my mind totally.my gran used to live in the bungerlows 15 years back .the disruption to the people near the site would be unberable. we are not bredbury, we are not romiley, we are not hazel grove we are marple,lets keep it that way!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cross Laner! on July 28, 2011, 10:25:59 AM
Just a thought...........

Is it possible for this forum to access our email addresses and/or phone numbers to contact us on-mass to get a message to everyone.  I don't always manage to check this forum everyday, but do pick up emails and text messages throughout each day.  This may be worth considering if there was to be a demonstration or such like??  I guess this may be to much work and that maybe we'd need to give permission and that the software may not be able to cope???

I'm also aware that there are many persons who still do not know anything about this campaigne and wonder how we can quickly get this to the whole of the community.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 28, 2011, 10:32:10 AM
i for one origanally voted for a supermarket, but after reading all the info thats been provided have changed my mind totally.my gran used to live in the bungerlows 15 years back .the disruption to the people near the site would be unberable. we are not bredbury, we are not romiley, we are not hazel grove we are marple,lets keep it that way!

Fantastic! Glad to see people are starting to make informed decisions - especially since both sides of the argument have been covered in this forum! Too many people seem to think it's a good idea without considering the wider implications on the community as a whole. Keep spreading the word Bluebelly  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 28, 2011, 10:46:54 AM
Interesting quote from Mike Whittaker (with which I entirely concur): "In some respects I blame the coop for their part in this issue with a new Supermarket. If it wasn't for their greed people wouldn't seek to find a cheaper alternative for their local shop.". Apart from the issue of the College's finances, if the Co-op were forced to give up their stranglehold in the centre of town then most of the unwelcome issues would probably go away.

Note to the people on Hibbert Lane: some of us live very close to the present supermarket (i.e the Co-op) - living close to a supermarket really isn't the big issue you make of it. As for not liking the noise of the bin men ... come on, get real!

It is news to me (and no idea whether it is true, or even whether it matters) that Marple Hall is "applying for Academy Status". That wouldn't of itself mean that they will then want a sixth form. They are, however, definitely taking about 200 children from the soon-to-be-closed Offerton High School, recovering their capacity of a few years ago and presumably limiting their opportunity for any sixth-form provision. (Does this have any connection to their current building of a ring of steel around the school grounds?)

As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 28, 2011, 10:50:38 AM
The trouble with the Marple Whispers is that most people currently think the rumour of a store is untrue.. as it was when it first cropped up and it was proven (??) not to be the case ..maybe a couple of years ago now?  So we need really to make sure everyone knows that now it is FACT.  and that we dont have much time to initially persuade the college to rethink.  Could someone maybe put an A5 flyer together making it clear that it is now reality. with an information website page?? and the phone number... Id happily print a tonne off and put them in places.. and on FB, twitter etc Though i think The Marple Twitterati are well and truly on to it already!

I know that youngsters arnt the most active of people however i think it might be useful to try and get them involved.. they do have a representative on the committee and they are in the college with the potential to cause very particular discomfort and embarrassment to the management.  

AND maybe another online petition Mark?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cross Laner! on July 28, 2011, 11:03:18 AM

As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Point taken, however they have chosen their occupation and they are paid to do their job.  It can't be that bad as there are husband and wife teams locally and they seem to manage, if it was so bad then perhaps they would stand down.

To enter the political ring you have to take the rough with the smooth and there will be many benefits too!  Remember that Marple has 6 councillors and that most have stood for quite a while so things really can't be that bad.  When commenting on our local councillors I do so based on their public life not on them as individuals.  In every walk of life you find persons who are great at their jobs and those who are not...........  and this is evident, in my opinion, in our Councillors, some are better than others.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on July 28, 2011, 11:07:09 AM
Can someone explain the actual status of the college. It has been referred to as a commercial organisation and even a corporation. Who is it accountable to? Who funds it?  I am sure that many people would believe that the college is entirely under the control of the lcoal authority. Lets understand the reality. The two emails published allegedly from the principal make interesting reading - in one breath she speaks about "preserving their status in the community" and in another expressing dissappointment that certain details were being leaked to that same community. Hmmmm
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Is it possible for this forum to access our email addresses and/or phone numbers to contact us on-mass to get a message to everyone

The "NOTIFY" button at the top of the forum page, "  Mark Read  |  Notify of Replies  |  Start new topic  |  Post New Poll " permits this

http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help)
Quote
The Notify button enables registered members to subscribe to email notification of replies to topics in this board.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 11:35:31 AM
1. From a selfish point of view, I live off Buxton Lane opposite the College, one thing that as not been  
   detailed is what the proposed new extension of the college would consist of! Surely there are restrictions
   on what can be built on the existing land at the Buxton Lane campus ?
   The thought of the increased student population and associated cars etc would be a nightmare. Have
   you ever see what it's like on a open evening? You struggle to park outside your own property.

My original FOI to the college requested covenant details for all 3 sites, but their reply only covered the Hibbert Lane campus.

I've requested clarification, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg).

Concerning Peacefield school, I would heartily suggest raising FOI requests to get further information.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 11:39:32 AM
Can someone explain the actual status of the college. It has been referred to as a commercial organisation and even a corporation. Who is it accountable to? Who funds it?  

I'm no longer involved with colleges since I retired, and things change so fast that I'm already out of date.  But basically, sixth form colleges and further education colleges became independent of local authorities in April 1993, as a result of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992.   Like all other colleges which came within the scope of the Act, camsfc is controlled by its own independent corporation, aka Board of Governors.   When the corporations were first established in 1993, the members were appointed by the Secretary of State, but after that they became their own self-perpetuating appointing bodies. They usually have a local authority rep on the Board, although it was said at yesterday's meeting that camsfc now doesn't have one, which surprises me.  

Camsfc has a rather complex history of its own, however.  It was created through a merger which took place after the initial incorporation in 1993.  This Wikipedia article has a useful brief history.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheadle_and_Marple_Sixth_Form_College

Although they are charities, and not for profit, in many respects these colleges do indeed have to behave quite like commercial organisaions, and that was always the intention, of course, when the Tory government set them up in the early 1990s.

Over the years the funding sources have changes.  At first funds came from a new quango called the Further Education Funding Council (FEFC).  Then Labour abolished that in 1998 and set up a new quango called the Learning and Skills Council, which was essentially the result of a merger between the FEFC and the former Training and Enterprise Councils (TECS).  (Bear with me, I've nearly finished  ;).

AFAIK, the funding now comes partly via local authorities, for students betweem 16 and 18, and partly from yet another new quango called the Skills Funding Aggency (SFA).

Hope this helps   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 11:40:49 AM
Our campaign is featured in the Stockport Express.  Don't be shy about adding comments via the Stockport Express website, perhaps pointing people towards this forum.

Glad that at least one of our Councillors is speaking up for us, and not sitting on the fence !!

Residents rally over fears of new superstore (http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1453738_residents-rally-over-fears-of-new-superstore)

Quote
Residents are opposing plans to sell off a plot of college land in Marple – fearing it might be used for a supermarket.

Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College says its Hibbert Lane campus is ‘no longer viable’ following cuts in government funding.

The college says it is considering ‘a number of options’, but neighbours say they believe that may include talks with one or more large supermarket.

Resident Lucille Bartlett said: "We do not want this. We do not need this. We have giant supermarkets in surrounding neighbourhoods as Hazel Grove and Bredbury."

Councillor Craig Wright said: "If it is sold to a supermarket it will be an absolute scandal. That land was given to the college to provide further education."

Residents are setting up a group, called Marple in Action, to bring people and businesses together to oppose any supermarket plan.

Many residents also plan to attend tonight’s meeting of the Marple area committee, which takes place at Marple Library at 6pm, to ask questions about the plans.

Paul Lawrence, director of place development at the council, said they are aware that discussions are taking place in respect about the site.

But as the land is owned by the college, the council does not have any jurisdiction over who it is sold to – although it will have to give planning permission for any development.

The college had been expecting funding for a new building on the Hibbert Lane site, but that was withdrawn last year.

A spokeswoman for the college said: "There are a number of options that are being considered in line with the need to provide a facility which will also become the focal point of the college’s community.

"We would like to stress that no contracts have been signed and that any decision is subject to planning."
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 11:43:54 AM
As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Very well said, hollins.  I realise that some people have very strong feelings on this issue, but I find it quite sad that some people resort to accusing councillors of 'lying'.   :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 28, 2011, 11:52:35 AM
As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Very well said, hollins.  I realise that some people have very strong feelings on this issue, but I find it quite sad that some people resort to accusing councillors of 'lying'.   :(
Agreed about accusing the councillors of lying is wrong, but from my experience of the Marple primary school merger the councillors are very selective of what information they impart to the people who have elected them to their position.
Like all jobs or "position" some people are better at than others. Some people become councillors to help the community and others are in it for the Kudos.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on July 28, 2011, 12:02:54 PM
Quote
Councillor Craig Wright said: "If it is sold to a supermarket it will be an absolute scandal. That land was given to the college to provide further education."

Glad that at least one of our Councillors is speaking up for us, and not sitting on the fence !!

Councillor Craig Wright has been the owner of a local business (Harmony Decor, I believe) before he sold up. Having had several discussions with him I know that he would be one of the most vocal opponents of a new supermarket because of the effect it would have on the local traders. We would definitely have an ally there from the point of view of the impact on local shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
Hello

I was at the meeting last night and offered some assistance. Im an acoustic consultant and have done a lot of work in relation to planning applications and noise, including supermarkets.

In terms of this potential application, the Planning Director was being truthful and honest. The problem lies elsewhere.

In terms of planning, the potential owner need to demonstrate that there will be minimal or no impact on local residents, over a number of categories.  Just thinking out loud, at least three issues immediately spring to mind; noise pollution, light pollution and additional traffic.

The main document they use is the Core Strategy (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningpolicy/ldf/dpd/corestrategy).

Its a lengthy document, but basically as was said last night, applications for a different use are opposed. So supermarket at the College site would definitely be refused. The problem is wheterh this is then referred elsewhere.

But all is not lost.

Traffic must be a major contention.

And noise is also likely to be significantly excessive.

In terms of what I can do, i can take measurements at locations around the site, at various times (will depend on proposed opening hours, which are currently unknown, but given the size of the site, its entirely possible that it could be late/24 hour. Noise levels in Marple are currently very quiet at night, particalary after 11pm, at around 30dBLAeq. I also have a lot of data relating to deliveries (the noisiest and hardest to treat) and car parks/traffic. I can undertake calculations to (probably) show that noise levels are excessive, and hence it should easily be blocked on those grounds alone. marple is just not going to get significantly noisier any time soon, so this should be a long term solution.

In terms of the survey, im not proposing to do anything just yet, but see what happens. Legally, im not sure if im allowed on the site, and i doubt the college will be supportive, so id need access to any houses with gardens that back onto the site for an hour or so. Im sure given the level of support someone can do this. i can take measurements on the pavement legally outside the front of other affected houses. I can also calcualte expected traffic noise levels. But the deliveries, at around 70-80dBLAeq, will be significantly higher than existing background, at around 30-40dBLA90.

Also, in terms of the equipment, depending on how work are about this, I may need to hire some equipment. Is there a fund/etc for this whole issue? Very early days yet, just thinking out loud.

Traffic would also be increased exponentially, and the infrastructure is just not suitable.

Tesco/whoever will have planning consultants and presumably acoustic/traffic etc companies working for them. Id also be happy to review any documents.

Noise is dealt with by Stockport Environmental Health by the way. They give guidance to the planning team, based on survey data and reports provided by the applicant. It is also possible to submit a report (i.e. ours) demonstrating that it will be excessive. I know a few people there and theyre decent people. Its there job and perogative to protect residnets from noise, as its them who get called out if/when theres a problem.

Other areas to consider would be light pollution (significant), conservation (any bats round this area?, theyre a protected species, we can force them to get an independent bat survey (!) believe it or not, seen them before), quality of air, right to light (blocking up windows), and privacy (people in car park seeing in to peoples rooms).  Theres probably even more.

Bit busy at work atm, but some food for thought, feel free to ask any questions.

I understand the main issue is the long term (expected) plan of Tescos buying the site and sitting on it. Theres really very little you can do about that, apart from lobbying the college, but i really can see planning permission for any large supermarket ever being granted there. All is not yet lost!

If either of the two ladies who i spoke to want to get in touch please do via the email i gave you last night.

Ben
:)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 28, 2011, 12:09:06 PM
It seems to me that the College Governors hold all the cards here. Fourteen people, or thirteen if its correct the Cllr McKay has stood down, hold complete control over the decision to which 'large supermarket' the land is sold to. How crazy is this. It is going to affect the community of Marple forever. We need to find out just who these people are. From the college website and the profiles that are available (for just some of them) they appear to be business people or academics with little if any connection to Marple. Does anyone know who they are and how they can be reached?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 12:13:17 PM

This post contained copies of two emails sent by Christina Cassidy to her staff earlier this year on April 7 and then on May 9.

I received a request to remove them from Andrew Hubert of Cheadle and Marple College at 1.20pm today (28 July 2011). Andrew provided a copy of the CAMSFC Disclaimer that the he says accompanied the original emails when they were sent out to college staff, which I have pasted below:

CAMSFC DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is intended to be addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the College. If you have received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying or disclose of its contents to any other person is strictly prohibited, please notify the sender immediately, by responding to this message and then deleting it from your system. The College nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email.

I have sought advice regarding the legal position on this and have been advised to comply with the college's request. Admin.


Quotations from confidential emails have been removed from this post. Admin

The college have made a concerted effort to conceal information from the public until such time as it is a "done-deal" and too late for our objections to make a difference.

Shame on you CAMSFC  >:(

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 28, 2011, 12:13:54 PM
Hi acoustic man,
I live on Hawk Green, just around the corner from Hibbert Lane. We have bats and a hawk and badgers! Any use?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 12:15:40 PM
As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Very well said, hollins.  I realise that some people have very strong feelings on this issue, but I find it quite sad that some people resort to accusing councillors of 'lying'.   :(

I agree that lying is a strong term.
Having said that, I have had precious few dealings with the members of the local area committee until this issue.  What concerns me is that at both the meeting with Marple In Action, and also at the meeting last night, their initial stance is 'we know very little, there are no facts'.  During the progress of the debate it then invariably emerges that they can indeed quash rumour with. The facts they do know.  We were told at the Marple In Action meeting that they had no knowledge of any actual bids, and solely that three weeks ago they had been told that the college was in discussion with three retailers.  At the meeting last night, we understand that the council has actually seen some Market research indicating that Marple sidings on the whole shop outside the area.  Clearly there has been some misinformation and the initial stance of having no informatio at all is not correct.  The posts from Sky Guy and Miss Marple above clearly evidence that the college has been talking in more detail to the Council than the LAC would have had Marple In Action believe at last week's meeting, when their statement of the facts as they knew them were absolutely scant, and adamant that the first they had heard was three weeks ago, at the end of June. 
There is a general feeling that they are inclined to withhold information as opposed to dealing with the issues.  I appreciate that the Director of Planning was very good, spoke clearly about the stance on the designation of the land and I think we all appreciate that the wider issue is largely beyond his control.  Despite this, I watched the faces of the LAC with interest (Craig aside, who seems to represent our view despite his verbal approach at times, which can be required as people get heated) and I was concerned that when goods points were made with regard to the Tesco at Burnage for example, they grimace and shake their heads in a very negative fashion.  The general feeling is not one of 'we're with you but our powers are limited as follows', it appears me more to me that they are against protestation from the residents, and this breeds a feeling that we are not represented and results in the over-egged accusations of lies. 
They should have come out and put on the table EVERYTHING they did know.  That didn't happen, you have to eke it out of them piece by tiny piece.  Not good, and if nothing else I know where my votes will not be going in the future.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 12:18:13 PM
It seems to me that the College Governors  ... Does anyone know who they are and how they can be reached?

Waiting on the college to give an accurate list of governors, via FOI, as their site seems incorrect, but if anyone can get it from elsewhere, great.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/current_governors (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/current_governors)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 12:19:07 PM
Hi acoustic man,
I live on Hawk Green, just around the corner from Hibbert Lane. We have bats and a hawk and badgers! Any use?

Yep :)

Not my area of expertise but these are all good lines of enquiry. We could do with organising a list of 'Marple In Action' skills.

I live in hawk green too btw, off goyt avenue.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cross Laner! on July 28, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
Some really intresting points from Ben, so much better to be fully informed.

If Cllr McKay has stood down? do we know if the Governing Body is obliged to have a representative Cllr on their board - what is the legal standing on this?  I still struggle to understand how the college GB can have so much weight in an issue as big as this?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 12:40:55 PM
There is a data base for all peoples email addresses or phone numbers  Please send me a personal email via this site with your email address on and I will add you the list.  Marple in Action is not about a small group of people ! Marple in Action is YOU and we want you to become involved because we realise that people on this site have a wealth of skills that will help drive this campaign forward.  For example one local resident has got her children's local school behind this campaign due to child safety on the road.  There was another resident at last nights meeting who had information about the concerns of our local fire service to increased traffic ( if you are reading this please post what information you have or send a personal email please )  There is soon to be a MASS demonstration which you will be informed of which will be taking place in August it is so important that we attend to show the college, councillors and which ever supermarket that IT'S NOT HAPPENING !  There is soon to be a bill board drop please let us no if you would allow us to put a bill board on your garden?  Especially is you live near the college  ! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 12:50:46 PM
Spoke to boss, in principle happy about use of equipment etc for noise surveys. My time would be out of hours and therefore free.

However, hes of the opinion noise may not be as much of an issue. It can be conditioned such that deliveries could only happen during hours specified eg 0800-1700h. Daytime levels are quite loud, relatively. I can do a spot check no problem, but if theyre restrcited to daytime deliveries that could be a massive blow to the noise side of things.

Theres also a problem in that I as an individual do not carry anything like the weight of the company i work for, and may get discredited if im not very careful, by highly paid teams of Tesco's consultants. Whether the company would be prepared to do it/underwrite my work as it were remains to be seen, id have to talk to the directors.

This will definitely need a bit more consideration. However, happy to help in this area, and anywhere else. Boss is of the opinion traffic will be the major influence in terms of planning refusal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lissb66 on July 28, 2011, 01:15:29 PM
Obviously, those who do not object to these supermarket plans are not adversely affected, perhaps it will not affect the value if their property, perhaps it is far enough away for them not to be worried about the traffic on their road increasing. I presume that that also care very little for maintaining the community they currently live in.
Question to those who do not mind or agree with the plans…. What if it was in your street? What if the 24 hour supermarket was opposite your house, what if the new traffic lights/roundabout was outside your front door?
Isn’t this a case of NIMBY (not in my back yard) attitude?
I did not attend the meeting last night, but I understand that the councillors were notably silent – Shouldn’t they be acting on our behalf?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 01:18:15 PM
I know Dave will try and shoot me down, but I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  Not one.  Never mind even a large A road.  The bridge on Windlehurst Road, the narrow Church Lane, the junction at Hibbert Lane/Stockport Road... It's the most unsuited set up to a large supermarket I can think of.  The way the Coop effects traffic around Hollins Lane is bad enough already when there are deliveries etc... I simply cannot agree that things would improve should a supermarket be built.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 01:19:27 PM
lAST NIGHTS MEETING IS ON UTUBE.  Oh my god ! I wish someone had let me know they were filming I would have had a shampoo and set  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 01:25:00 PM
lAST NIGHTS MEETING IS ON UTUBE.  Oh my god ! I wish someone had let me know they were filming I would have had a shampoo and set  :D

Links ! (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=youtube#q=marple+tesco+site:youtube.com&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&prmdo=1&tbs=qdr:d&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=vid&ei=-VQxTt7uI4er8AOggd2gDg&ved=0CD8QqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e66c6e0adf04fb7&biw=846&bih=837)


 ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 01:35:16 PM
lAST NIGHTS MEETING IS ON UTUBE.  Oh my god ! I wish someone had let me know they were filming I would have had a shampoo and set  :D

Links ! (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=youtube#q=marple+tesco+site:youtube.com&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&prmdo=1&tbs=qdr:d&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=vid&ei=-VQxTt7uI4er8AOggd2gDg&ved=0CD8QqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e66c6e0adf04fb7&biw=846&bih=837)
Oh I don't know how to do that , but I know a man who can. There are five videos on

 ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 01:40:33 PM
quite right, heres the others;

Link 1 (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX4lqCodS_fk&rct=j&q=marple%20council%20meeting%20%20site%3Ayoutube.com&tbm=vid&tbs=qdr%3Ad&ei=YVgxToSgCcfX8gOL59SgDg&usg=AFQjCNF6Du65s1UQ6T9KKlJ559CZ12sbWg&cad=rja)

Linkl2 (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuhZTtgj4tAo&rct=j&q=marple%20council%20meeting%20%20site%3Ayoutube.com&tbm=vid&tbs=qdr%3Ad&ei=YVgxToSgCcfX8gOL59SgDg&usg=AFQjCNH28mTQdMwSFrZSk6EaLhLzYBdQDA&cad=rja)


to make a link;

Click the little world symbol (hover over and a 'Insert Hyperlink' tooltip pops up

In the first square brackets that pops up, after url add '=link' where link is what you want to link to; its easiest to just copy and paste from the address bar of the site what want to link to.

Add some text between the two sets of square brackets in the middle, this is what will go blue and become a link.

Code: [Select]
[url=www.example.com]Example Text[/url]

will produce

Example Text (http://www.example.com)

with a link to www.example.com.

Sorry cant make it any simpler than that with this forum software ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on July 28, 2011, 01:41:03 PM
By the way. There were a number of people using Twitter at the meeing last night. Those of you using it should use the #nototesco and #marple hashtags. You should also subscribe to the list run by local resident Michael Taylor which is @MarpleLeaf/marple-tweeters

If you want to be added to his directory of local people using Twitter then message him at @MarpleLeaf
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on July 28, 2011, 01:47:04 PM
Local campaign resources.....

http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=708&Itemid=167

Maybe Tesco and A.N.Other are offering the College a 2 for 1 or double points deal :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lexymunro on July 28, 2011, 01:48:06 PM
I'm sending one of these letters to each governor at CAMSFC and would urge you all to do similar.

Marple Campus  
Hibbert Lane  
Marple  
Stockport  
SK6 7PA

28th July 28, 2011

Re:  Proposed Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus

Dear Lawrie Grant

I am writing to you regarding the information, which is now in the public domain, that CAMSFC is proposing to enter into a deal with one of the major supermarkets.

As a resident of Marple during my childhood, and more recently as a parent of two young children, my family and I are STRONGLY opposed to the Hibbert Lane Campus becoming a supermarket on the following grounds:

•   We, along with many other local residents, chose to live in Marple because of its quiet village nature and its thriving local centre comprising small, friendly shops.  The presence of a large supermarket would unquestionably change this.

•   We are very worried about the inevitable drop in house prices.

•   We are seriously concerned about the impact of increased traffic in the area, including air and noise pollution and safety to other road users, including pedestrians and cyclists.  As it is Marple is choked with traffic at peak times.  There simply isn’t room.

•   Aesthetically the whole area would be changed into just another faceless town.

•   Whilst the college requires upgrading, its reputation would be irrevocably damaged by the adverse publicity, which will undoubtedly be huge.

I urge you to reconsider your plans and put community goodwill and the 25 000 residents of Marple at the heart of your decisions.  I believe, as a community institution, that you have a moral responsibility to do this.  Indeed, I woud direct you to your own website and following claim:

"The Marple campus is close to the centre of the attractive village of Marple and both our sites, at Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane, are surrounded by extensive grounds to give a great feeling of space and freedom."

We are all well aware of what happens when the large supermarkets appeal planning decisions, so I feel very strongly indeed that the buck stops with you, the governors, and you alone.  Please do the right thing, for Marple, and globalisation as a whole, and sell to a developer who will help retain Marple’s unique character.

I look forward to a response.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor Meldrew on July 28, 2011, 02:06:30 PM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness

This is taken directly from www.tescopoly.org on the "basic facts about supermarkets" page

Supermarkets destroy local jobs. Supermarket claims that new stores bring in jobs fail to consider the wider picture of independent retailer bankruptcies. A 1998 study by the National Retailer Planning Forum (NRPF) examining the employment impacts of 93 superstore openings between 1991 and 1994 found that they resulted in a net loss of more than 25,000 jobs or 276 per store opened. More information on the impact of supermarkets on jobs is available in Chapter 13 of the Competition Commission report on the power of the supermarkets.

Quote
The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

A brilliant point and a brilliant post. Imagine if every Governor received 200 or more letters like Mike's!!!

Please, everyone who is against this proposal, GET WRITING!!!

You are spot on about the loss of jobs which result in new supermarkets, which has been proven time and time again. Not only that, but the quality of jobs and the salary level paid to workers also plummets. Many people, unfortunately, just buy the myth that 'big and shiny new' means progress.

We get bulk & locally unavailable shopping items online, usually fortnightly, which leaves us free to shop locally for as much as possible, so I can't understand why some people on here argue that a new supermarket is good because it will save them petrol from driving to supermarkets 4 + miles away. They don't need to drive anywhere - the 21st century is here.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
.... I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  Not one.  Never mind even a large A road.

Without even thinking about it, the following come to mind:

Tesco, Glossop
Morrisons, Bradford
Morrisons, Chesterfield
Asda, Hazel Grove
Sainsburys, Hazel Grove

None of the above are near a motorway or dual carriageway. Some of them are on already overcrowded roads.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 02:30:12 PM
.... I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  Not one.  Never mind even a large A road.

Without even thinking about it, the following come to mind:

Tesco, Glossop
Morrisons, Bradford
Morrisons, Chesterfield
Asda, Hazel Grove
Sainsburys, Hazel Grove

None of the above are near a motorway or dual carriageway. Some of them are on already overcrowded roads.

Oh! I missed an obvious one.

The Co-op, Marple

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 02:31:18 PM
I know Dave will try and shoot me down, but I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  

An invitation I can surely not refuse, marple-syrup!  For starters, how about the Co-op!   Also Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove, Tesco's in Glossop, Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme and Poynton, Morrison's and Waitrose in Buxton.

If Cllr McKay has stood down? do we know if the Governing Body is obliged to have a representative Cllr on their board - what is the legal standing on this?

I think they are advised that it is good practice, but not a legal requirement.  This is simply because in practice it would be unenforceable.

 
I still struggle to understand how the college GB can have so much weight in an issue as big as this?

Welcome to the future, Jo!  The present government, just like the previous two, is is hell-bent on reducing the powers of local authorities, and one of the ways they have done this is by taking colleges and then, increasingly, schools, away from local authority control. Hence the various forms of non-LA controlled schools that we now have - foundation schools, academies, and (coming soon), 'free schools'.  These will all be very much like camsfc - no local accountability, only a freestanding board governors who can do whatever they like.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 28, 2011, 02:50:11 PM
I know Dave will try and shoot me down, but I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  

An invitation I can surely not refuse, marple-syrup!  For starters, how about the Co-op!   Also Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove,

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove are both directly on a dual carriageway
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 02:58:19 PM
And the a6 is obviously comparable in your minds to Hibbert Lane, or even to Stockport Road?
And Poynton, Bradford, Cheadle Hulme, even Hazel Grove are SO FAR RREMOVED FROM A MOTORWAY OR DUAL CARRIAGEWAY AS MARPLE?  Which was actually my question.  And I mentioned the Co-op myself!!
 Dave your speciality in particular is picking one word to undermine the essence of the argument.  If you seriously believe that the road network in Marple, meaning Hibbert Lane, Stockport Road, Wndlehurst Road, and Church Lane... ie. Every road that could be used to travel to the proposed supermarket... Is similar to the A6 in Hazel Grove, Macclesfield Road through Poynton, or the A57 that passes directly past the Glossop Tescos, you are absolutely deluded man.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 03:01:57 PM
Unless I'm very much mistaken, Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove are both directly on a dual carriageway

You are very much mistaken.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 03:08:19 PM
And the a6 is obviously comparable in your minds to Hibbert Lane, or even to Stockport Road?
And Poynton, Bradford, Cheadle Hulme, even Hazel Grove are SO FAR RREMOVED FROM A MOTORWAY OR DUAL CARRIAGEWAY AS MARPLE?  Which was actually my question.  And I mentioned the Co-op myself!!
 Dave your speciality in particular is picking one word to undermine the essence of the argument.  If you seriously believe that the road network in Marple, meaning Hibbert Lane, Stockport Road, Wndlehurst Road, and Church Lane... ie. Every road that could be used to travel to the proposed supermarket... Is similar to the A6 in Hazel Grove, Macclesfield Road through Poynton, or the A57 that passes directly past the Glossop Tescos, you are absolutely deluded man.

All the stores mentioned are just as far from a motorway or dual carriageway as Marple. In fact they are further away. Marple is only 3 miles from a motorway.

As for the A6 and A57, they are far more congested than the A626 and were before the supermarkets were built. Both are at a crawl at most times of the day. The A626 is only busy at rush hour.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mr Marple on July 28, 2011, 03:12:04 PM
Should Tesco be successful Marple will change and not for the better!

Marple will lose alot of its peaceful nature and the roads will become chockablock and will require alot of maintenance which costs money that the government doesn't have.

I can only hope that we, Marple residents, can give Tesco a good struggle.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Janneke on July 28, 2011, 03:20:22 PM
Apparently Poynton residents opposed Tesco successfully. Does anyone know anyone there?
They have of course got a Waitrose now, but it would be really interesting to know how they went about it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on July 28, 2011, 03:28:23 PM
In the paper, well virtual...
http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1454010_supermarket-land-row-meeting-moved-to-park-after-room-proves-too-small-as-hundreds-attend
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: dawn on July 28, 2011, 03:38:34 PM
I also heard that the baths and shop will be going so that a round-a-bout can be put there. I too am hoping that this was just a rumour  :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 03:40:09 PM
Apparently Poynton residents opposed Tesco successfully. Does anyone know anyone there?
They have of course got a Waitrose now, but it would be really interesting to know how they went about it.

The tescopoly website has some details of the Poynton defeat.  From my understanding Tesco wanted to demolish a listed old cinema, which was a complete non-starter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 03:59:13 PM
And the a6 is obviously comparable in your minds to Hibbert Lane, or even to Stockport Road?
And Poynton, Bradford, Cheadle Hulme, even Hazel Grove are SO FAR RREMOVED FROM A MOTORWAY OR DUAL CARRIAGEWAY AS MARPLE?  Which was actually my question.  And I mentioned the Co-op myself!!
 Dave your speciality in particular is picking one word to undermine the essence of the argument.  If you seriously believe that the road network in Marple, meaning Hibbert Lane, Stockport Road, Wndlehurst Road, and Church Lane... ie. Every road that could be used to travel to the proposed supermarket... Is similar to the A6 in Hazel Grove, Macclesfield Road through Poynton, or the A57 that passes directly past the Glossop Tescos, you are absolutely deluded man.

All the stores mentioned are just as far from a motorway or dual carriageway as Marple. In fact they are further away. Marple is only 3 miles from a motorway.

As for the A6 and A57, they are far more congested than the A626 and were before the supermarkets were built. Both are at a crawl at most times of the day. The A626 is only busy at rush hour.



Don't want to turn this debate away from what we should be talking about, but Hibbert Lane is 4.7 miles from the M60 network.  The Sainsburys at Hazel Grove is only three miles from the centre of Stockport, and a lot closer to the main links out towards Macclesfield. 
So stop nitpicking Harry, especially if you're wrong.  Onto the element of traffic, The A626 at rush hour, when it matters to me, can be backed up beyond Lisburne Lane in Offerton.  Dooley lane is simply un-negotiable.
The A6 is by no means crawling through the day... When was the lt time you travelled on it, as I do daily in my work?
Do you think Marple is suited to a big new supermarket on Hibbert Lane then?  If you think the A626 is pleasant now, then you'll suffer more than most when Tesco arrives, Mark my words!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 28, 2011, 04:04:59 PM

Welcome to the future, Jo!  The present government, just like the previous two, is is hell-bent on reducing the powers of local authorities, and one of the ways they have done this is by taking colleges and then, increasingly, schools, away from local authority control. Hence the various forms of non-LA controlled schools that we now have - foundation schools, academies, and (coming soon), 'free schools'.  These will all be very much like camsfc - no local accountability, only a freestanding board governors who can do whatever they like.


This is true and not beofre time in my opinion. THey are however, providing far more power to parish councils just removing power from hte town halls which have abused their powers somewhat in the past and we don't have to look too far to see it happening now.

School autonomy is not rally an issue, they must runt their organisation as efficiently as possible within the boudaries of the law. They will have to get plans past planning and that is where the pressure must be exhorted. In addition, how about parents withdraw their kids and send them to Aquinas until the plans are withdrawn.

 I don't really see the college's case for new buildings, Oxford & Cambridge are the best in the country and they get by with reet old buildings.

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 04:21:10 PM
I don't really see the college's case for new buildings, Oxford & Cambridge are the best in the country and they get by with reet old buildings.

I like it - nice point, though no doubt tongue-in-cheek!  Trouble is, as you must realise, Duke, the issue with the camsfc buildings is not their age - they are between 50 and 80 years old, AFAIK - as their poor quality of construction and unsuitable design.   Oxbridge colleges may have been built centuries ago, but they were very well built (to say the least!) and they are still being used for exactly the same purpose.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 28, 2011, 05:05:53 PM
Can I just remind everyone that it within the College that this problem has started. I have it on good authority from one of the Marple in Action group who attended the meeting with the College yesterday  that the College applied for some funds to the then Learning and Skills Council in 2008 and were 2 weeks late with the application which has resulted in the current financial problem. I think someone at the College needs to be held accountable for this mess.

This now means that the rest of Marple has to suffer the consequences because of a late application. Now we are being held to ransom by thirteen college governors, some of whom have absolutely no connection with Marple, so they aren't going to be very sympathetic about what happens here.

At the risk of repeating myself, how has this been allowed to happen. They and Principal should resign in shame and a new board of governors should be elected, people who are competent and could help to sort this out.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 06:27:08 PM
I have received a huge amount of interest via the mobile number I left on a post.   This has been given for people who have not got Internet and has been past on to them via this web site  I am hoping that this will be the so called hot line for people to contact Marple in Action and it will be widely advertised   Once again the number is 07790419494 please leave your name, telephone number and a brief message and someone will contact you back and will keep you informed About our next mass protest which will take place very soon. The turn out last night was fantastic, made me proud to live in such a supportive community BUT ! The next protest meeting will need to be even bigger, as Sky Guy said it's going to be a long journey, so we need to spread the word and keep one another informed and also remember to keep our older residents informed so that they can have their voice heard.  It was very difficult trying to deliver leaflets to the whole of Marple so sadly some people were not aware of the meeting, so next time if people could volunteer to do their street, office , school, park, shops etc it would be fantastic.  So we can get your names ready for our next leaflet drop can you phone the number above or send a personal email via this site which is very easy to do and I am sure one of our group will give an example of how to do it after this post.  I hope that does not sound patronising but if you are new to the furrow it may be something you have not done before.   So please help deliver leaflets which will inform of the next protest, hope to hear from you soon  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: neil f on July 28, 2011, 06:45:19 PM

I will deliver in Hawk Green,Let me know when and how to get then.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 06:53:10 PM
Thanks I will let you know as soon as the date has been arranged 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: BidingTime on July 28, 2011, 07:30:07 PM
Its very hard to understand how anyone could think the roads of Marple would cope with the additional traffic a Tesco would bring  ???

The A626 is busy all the time (except maybe in the middle of the night) and to say it is only busy at rush hour does not make sense,eveyone knows how backed up that road is FOR HOURS (not just one hour rush hour) every morning (term time obviously worse) and how busy it is coming into Marple at anytime.
Add in extra traffic visiting the store,HGVs,deliveries all day/prob most of the night and its very hard to believe that Marple will not end up as a grid-locked/even noisier/more polluted town than it already is.

I suggest anyone who says Marple can cope with massive additional traffic tries to leave Marple every morning between 7.30am and 9.30 am and return anytime between 3pm and 6pm........do that for a full year in ALL weathers and then see if you have the same opinion.

The traffic issue is also before you bring in any affect on housing anywhere near the store/on routes towards it,chances of more anti-social behaviour at night in the area .........again imagine yourself in a house near the Hibbert lane site and see how you would feel about it.

If people drive to the proposed Tesco to shop they are not going to walk from Hibbert Lane into Marple to see the smaller shops or cafes etc .....why would they when Tescos will prob have a Cafe ? people very rarely walk anywhere now for any distance and they are not going to think after shopping......."Ohh i'll just walk down this congested un-interesting road to see a few shops or a canal"  
The majority will drive to Tesco-shop-drive home,job done.

As far as i can see for people that live in Marple the negatives far outweigh the positives,the only positive is it would give you more choice......why would anyone who lives in Marple think just that was worth all the traffic/housing problems added together with the very probable decline of a community feel with many local independant shops probably being forced to close.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on July 28, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
Lets open a community biscuit factory,now what shall we call the marple biscuit :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 09:49:48 PM
Two leaked emails that Ms Cassidy and Mr Hubert asked to be taken off this site have been seen digested  circulated and distributed to all that need to know.   THEY CAN RUN BUT THEY CAN NOT HIDE   Correction They tried to hide a lot  of information.   SHAME ON YOU !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 10:10:22 PM
Have we got any idea yet of the mail or email address of any of the governors of the college. Please send a personal email asap  :(. Can anyone let us know who the supermarket is all very useful stuff that someone out there may know  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wardy123 on July 29, 2011, 12:59:33 AM
Unacceptable post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 29, 2011, 07:25:12 AM
Now we are being held to ransom by thirteen college governors......They and Principal should resign in shame and a new board of governors should be elected, people who are competent and could help to sort this out.

And how exactly do you suggest they could 'sort this out' catwoman?  Unless they have a magic wand, they will need to raise the same money, and they will have to raise it in the same way.  A reputable (and no doubt expensive) property consultants, Turner and Townsend, have identified this as the way to raise the capital they need to finance their building, and that won't change. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lissb66 on July 29, 2011, 10:27:35 AM
Message for Dave.....

Care to enlighten us as to where you live? if it is in Marple at all? Is it anywhere near the planned supermarket site?  Actually I don;t care where you live, I am willing to bet it is not near Hibbert Lane!... It is all very well playing devils advocate and making a good arguement however the more valid arguements are those who are directly affected by this. Do you have to back bite every comment? It seems like you are just enjoying the arguement! Have a think about how this feels for those who have been kept in the dark, those who invested their lives in purchasing a property in the affected areas by increased traffic, noise, poloution, crime, light and devaluation of property? Have some empathy for god's sake!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 29, 2011, 10:56:04 AM
......affected areas by increased traffic, noise, poloution, crime, light and devaluation of property?

Increased crime?  Where did this one come from?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on July 29, 2011, 11:00:39 AM
 Ironically, if an indoor venue for the next mass meeting concerning flogging off the Hibbert Lane site to the known unknowns, is the best place available, in central Marple, the College itself in the Sport Hall or similar? Judging from the numbers that turned up on Wednesday, this may even be a tight fit.

And a big thank you to the lady and gentlemen from the Marple Action group, who attended a meeting at the college and brought the news, however unpalatable that was  >:(

Imagine the kerfuffle if this was 1828 and a certain Mr.Charles Warmsley announced his attention to build a Mill, finishing in 1830 which  will stand 5 storeys high, the weaving sheds and offices will more than treble this area, for the mill footprint. Noise, deliveries...In Marple with a population of 2,000 !

(thanks to Peter Clarke..http://www.marple-uk.com/hollins.htm)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lissb66 on July 29, 2011, 11:11:29 AM
Harry,
Another devils advocate.. Not a Hibbert Lane resident either I am guessing?
Yes! Increased crime, it is known that supermarket car parks tend to attract anti social behaviour, car crime, thefts etc.. Even if you want to argue this point, (which I am sure you enjoy doing) that does not detract from from the other issues of noise, traffic & congestion, 24 hour floodlights, and devaluation of property to mention a few.
Like I said before, have some empathy for those who are directly affected by this and STOP NIT PICKING!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 29, 2011, 11:23:43 AM
Message for Dave.....

Care to enlighten us as to where you live? if it is in Marple at all? Is it anywhere near the planned supermarket site?  Actually I don;t care where you live, I am willing to bet it is not near Hibbert Lane!... It is all very well playing devils advocate and making a good arguement however the more valid arguements are those who are directly affected by this.

Yes I live in Marple, but not near Hibbert Lane.  And I have every sympathy for those who live near the site - in my view that is the one group of people who really do have good reason to oppose this plan, and they have by far the strongest case against it.  If I lived there I would probably feel just the same.  But as I have said before, I am not convinced by some of the other arguments, such as that the development would have a major adverse effect on local businesses.  And I do have a lot of sympathy for the college, which is just doing its best to improve its facilities for the benefit of the community. 

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 12:32:37 PM
Why would anyone think that the residents of Marple should bail out a PRIVATE company  For goodness sake they got the land given to them !  We are not speaking about a state run school !  THIS IS A PRIVATE BUISNESS !!!!!    Well I know what we should do, all the residents of Marple should have a whip round for all the failed shops in Marple, let's say we start with Grenaby Farm and Mulligans. Shall we pull those two shops down and set those failed Business up in the Trafford Centre in a brand new store.   No it's not practical is it ?  So how can a private company like the college be allowed to distroy  our community to get what they want, because I bet any money the likes of Mulligans and Grenaby didn't expect anything.   SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT !   Please enlighten me !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 29, 2011, 12:35:55 PM
Just a point of information for those people new to the forum.

Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College is not affiliated to the Council or to any local education authority, it operates autonomously much in the way a private limited compoany does.

The Principal and Board of Governors do not have to consult with anyone about what they do. They don't have to take any notice of what the planning department are saying to them about unsuitability of the site for a supermarket and refusal of planning applications. If they (the college) think they can get the money they want to carry out their plans from a supermarket developer they can just go ahead and do it. They don't have to consult with the community or anyone else.

Hey - this doesn't sound very fair to me. ???

Perhaps we should invite the Governors to the next public meeting and ask them to explain their position and how they think this is 'good community relations'.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 29, 2011, 02:13:16 PM
Harry,
Another devils advocate.. Not a Hibbert Lane resident either I am guessing?
Yes! Increased crime, it is known that supermarket car parks tend to attract anti social behaviour, car crime, thefts etc.. Even if you want to argue this point, (which I am sure you enjoy doing) that does not detract from from the other issues of noise, traffic & congestion, 24 hour floodlights, and devaluation of property to mention a few.
Like I said before, have some empathy for those who are directly affected by this and STOP NIT PICKING!!!!


Not true I'm afraid - I bet the police visit the area around the Co-op's car-park rather less than they do certain areas of Marple. Perhaps you should visit the Co-op car park at night ... it is extremely quiet except when the clientele of the cinema emerge after the night's film.
It has night-time (not 24-hour!) floodlights: they aren't a problem; in fact, they help to keep the area crime-free.

Many pubs are a bigger source of anti-social behaviour, drugs and crime but I don't see many people on this forum advocating their closure (and neither would I).

Noise? Well you should try Brabyns Park when there is a dog show there.

I don't live on Hibbert Lane but I bet I live closer to the Co-op than most of the people posting from that road. It isn't a problem. In fact, if the Co-op improved its retailing then it would actually be quite convenient.


Why would anyone think that the residents of Marple should bail out a PRIVATE company  For goodness sake they got the land given to them !  We are not speaking about a state run school !  THIS IS A PRIVATE BUISNESS !!!!!    Well I know what we should do, all the residents of Marple should have a whip round for all the failed shops in Marple, let's say we start with Grenaby Farm and Mulligans. Shall we pull those two shops down and set those failed Business up in the Trafford Centre in a brand new store.   No it's not practical is it ?  So how can a private company like the college be allowed to distroy  our community to get what they want, because I bet any money the likes of Mulligans and Grenaby didn't expect anything.   SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT !   Please enlighten me !

This is a private business but, unlike the shops that you mention, the College can't charge its users (6th-form students) directly ... at least, not yet! Nor can it change its income no matter how well it does its job (teaching) - unlike the shops which can choose to set their own prices and can expect to do well out of good retail practice.

I can see a big difference.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 29, 2011, 02:23:26 PM



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 29, 2011, 02:34:35 PM
SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT !   Please enlighten me !

Er, well, for a start, colleges provide education, free of charge; shops sell goods for profit.  Grenaby Farm and Mulligans closed because people were voting with their feet and going elsewhere to buy what they sold.  On the other hand, Camsfc is the only provider of 16-18 education (e.g. A levels) in Marple.  If it were allowed to close our children and grandchildren (huge numbers of them) would have to go elsewhere, and there isn't anywhere to go - there is certainly no spare capacity at Aquinas.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 02:41:56 PM
Perhaps we should invite the Governors to the next public meeting and ask them to explain their position and how they think this is 'good community relations'.

Governors, Councillors, local MP (didn't spot him at wednesday's meeting!), Turner+Townsend, CAMSFC management all welcome to attend.

In fact, I'd rather like the prospective buyers of the land to come along too.  Worth a punt by sending an invite to ASDA, Sainsburys and Tesco PR divisions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 29, 2011, 02:43:41 PM
Message for Dave.....

Care to enlighten us as to where you live? if it is in Marple at all? Is it anywhere near the planned supermarket site?  Actually I don;t care where you live, I am willing to bet it is not near Hibbert Lane!... It is all very well playing devils advocate and making a good arguement however the more valid arguements are those who are directly affected by this.

Yes I live in Marple, but not near Hibbert Lane.  And I have every sympathy for those who live near the site - in my view that is the one group of people who really do have good reason to oppose this plan, and they have by far the strongest case against it.  If I lived there I would probably feel just the same.  But as I have said before, I am not convinced by some of the other arguments, such as that the development would have a major adverse effect on local businesses.  And I do have a lot of sympathy for the college, which is just doing its best to improve its facilities for the benefit of the community.  

 

For what its worth, I believe that Dave has put forward a lot of well thought out arguments and that the action group should consider the points he raises and present similar well reasoned responses. Having attended many a public inquiry and seen local action groups shot down in flames because they rely on emotional responses rather than logic or evidence, it often pays to take a step back and view things from a wider perspective.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 02:44:46 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html

Yes.  Timeline showing how that council "rolled over" for Tesco is at http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 03:01:48 PM
Don't tell me its a charity ?  Nothing in life is free, they get monies from us the tax payer to educate the students which will also pay their enormous salaries!  Would anyone now send their child to a college that forgot to apply for a grant for funding this college transformation? I know I wouldn't and the word is spreading. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on July 29, 2011, 03:50:44 PM
Just been talking to a local couple who both feel that having a Tesco would be good for the area because they're sick of the Co-op having a monopoly and charging high prices. They did express a concern about the increase in traffic though. I said that small local businesses would be badly affected but they feel that the small shops are too expensive and that "the competition would do them good".

It's made me wonder what the Co-op's position is on this issue, because they surely must have an interest in opposing the Tesco too.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 03:52:03 PM
REMEMBER THE TWO LEAKED EMAILS. :-[      LETS NOT FORGET  !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 29, 2011, 03:52:18 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html

Yes.  Timeline showing how that council "rolled over" for Tesco is at http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183)

That link is very interesting. What also is interesting is that there was a group against the tesco and a group for the tesco. I think this could happen here as like i said on another post, several people (but a minority still) i spoke to about the potential new store are in favour of it; mainly for cheaper prices and also as the Coop is seen as not very good.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 29, 2011, 04:04:34 PM
Actually Miss Marple i may well send my son to that college next year because theres not THAT much good choice around! Though I think boycotting organisations to show support for a particular campaign is effective I'm afraid if its going to negatively affect my childrens education and long term plans then I wont so please dont ask me to.

And Ditto Belly re comments about Dave.  We have to cut out the emotion and concentrate on facts.. and BOTH sides of the argument.  IF we cant convince them Not to buy it or the college not to sell then it will go to planning and if its refused as implied by the planning officer then the council and i expect a community group as well will be facing the supermarkets expensive top barristers!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 04:45:37 PM
Actually Miss Marple i may well send my son to that college next year because theres not THAT much good choice around! Though I think boycotting organisations to show support for a particular campaign is effective I'm afraid if its going to negatively affect my childrens education and long term plans then I wont so please dont ask me to.

And Ditto Belly re comments about Dave.  We have to cut out the emotion and concentrate on facts.. and BOTH sides of the argument.  IF we cant convince them Not to buy it or the college not to sell then it will go to planning and if its refused as implied by the planning officer then the council and i expect a community group as well will be facing the supermarkets expensive top barristers!
Your children will be fine just steer them away from Finance  and Buisness studies  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 09:28:18 PM
I have no real issue with living near a supermarket (used to live very close to the Morrisons in Bredbury) but I genuinely don't think living near the Co-op would be as much of an issue as living near a Tesco superstore-if indeed that is what is planned.  

I am concerned it could end up resembling the Portwood branch-and yes I live on Hibbert lane directly facing the college in fact.  Some of the posts on here re living near a store are a little harsh and somewhat unsympathetic.  If I bought my house with a supermarket there then fine, I am making an informed choice but I didn't.  

You only have to look at the size of the campus site to know it will not be a 2000 sq ft development despite what they say.

The Co-op is situated in the village shopping area-a little different to being right in front/behind/at the side of a residential area-the campus is surrounded by houses.  I bought here for the village life and whilst I will not be swayed re my comments above I genuinely oppose the development as I am concerned the village/community life will suffer and become a thing of the past-also concerned about the carnival and food festivals etc.  The increased traffic outside my house is also a major concern-it is already very busy and we cannot have our bedroom windows open at night in the summer due to the noise-admittedly this will only be an issue if it is a 24 hour store.

It will in my opinion go ahead and I am resigned to that fact but I am far from happy about it and will help wherever I can.  It is a shame but as some other people have mentioned, money talks.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 10:08:01 PM
Forgot to ask:
 - can we obtain details from the college re quotes for the development of Buxton lane?
 - will it genuinely cost £12million? Or is this just to line peoples pockets?
 - can it be done for the £4million offered by the residential developer?
 - If the site on Hibbert Lane is supposedly going to be 2000 sq ft then the site near memorial park (Hanburys?) is more than sufficient and is in fact bigger than what is being proposed-Co-op should release the hanbury site allowing competition thereby negating the monopoly argument.

In my eyes this would be a win/win situation for all parties.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 10:17:36 PM
- can we obtain details from the college re quotes for the development of Buxton lane?

Yes, Maria, you can certainly request those details, suggest you use site http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/).  The college is legally obliged to respond to such requests.  The wording used to request is fairly key, as the college will want to use the old "cannot release at this time on grounds of commercial sensitivity" line where possible.

I've done a few related ones with varying degrees of success.  See http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/neil_corrie (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/neil_corrie)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 10:34:25 PM
Thanks Neil, appreciated.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 11:15:31 PM
Anyone managed to get Andrew Stunell's view on all this? 

Apart from living locally and being our elected representative in Parliament, in his role of "Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department for Communities and Local Government" his remit (http://andrewstunell.org.uk/en/page/andrew) is


...all of which seem to play a part in this supermarket issue.

And he does seem to have an opinion on this, looking at an early day motion last year (http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2009-10/1174), where he was one of 18 MPs to speak out against Tesco's Stretford plans.  Regrettably,  Tesco won on that occasion (http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk/news/features/tesco_stretford/5057691._Death_knell__for_Stretford___say_no_campaigners/).  >:(

Stretford's action group site remains available at http://www.nomegatesco.org.uk/ (http://www.nomegatesco.org.uk/).

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 11:24:29 PM
Part of the covenants say;

There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site

I recall it being suggested at the meeting in the park that provided such facilities were provided at Buxton lane this would satisfy the covenant-I assume this is suggested as the Hibbert lane site would be incorporated with Buxton lane.  I construe the above to mean the site i.e. the land-not the building.  It refers to the site being used for adult education-meaning the land-this should also apply to the latter covenants surely?

Is it correct to say the covenants apply to the land/site not the building?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
There are posters that you can now download for you to display in your window or car, that say                     

SAVE OUR COMMUNITY

NO SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE


PLEASE PLEASE START DOWNLOADING NOW TO TELL THE COUNCILLORS,GOVERNORS, ANDREW STUNELL MP, THE PLANNING DEPT, MS CASSIDY (Principal) Mr Hubert (finance) and whatever
SUPERMARKET THATS SNIFFING AROUND !  THAT MARPLE SAYS NO !!

LETS TURN THIS TOWN RED  !   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 11:42:40 PM
There are posters that you can now download for you to display in your window or car, that say                     

SAVE OUR COMMUNITY

NO SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE

Here's the link http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/marple-in-action-no-poster.pdf (http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/marple-in-action-no-poster.pdf)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 11:47:48 PM
Thanks for putting the link on Neil !  I Just couldn't  get the hang of it I think I was having a senior moment!  :o.

CHEERS MATE !!!!   :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 12:32:11 AM
Some posters have been put up tonight on trees , look out as your passing ! Sadly not as many as we would have liked because we were getting stopped often by concerned residents who were worried about the increased traffic a supermarket would bring and the safety of their children with increased traffic.  We also spoke to many elderly people who live at the side of the college and across the road who were in fear of the increased crime and noise a supermarket would bring ? SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY AND MR HUBERT I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT !  OH SILLY ME YOU DON'T LIVE HERE DO YOU !   

We also gave a clear message to residents to ask their local councillors what they are doing because if the councillors are not behind this all the way the LIBERALS will be out of Marple and we will have an out of work MP

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different !   TURN THIS VILLAGE RED   PLEASE PUT YOUR POSTER UP. BELIEVE ME TESCO WILL BE MONITORING THE COMMUNITIES REACTION !!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 11:10:50 AM
Just spoken to Margaret Mclay to express concerns at her involvement in any decision to allow the college to be sold to a supermarket.  Ms Mclay continually stated that she had raised her concerns with Ms Cassidy about the opposition the college would face in Marple if the college continued down this route.  Ms Mclay stated that she really did not think that the principle understands how strong the community feelings are towards the college being used for retail.   I have asked Ms Mclay to pass on the concerns of residents to the college governors and to advise her that public opposition is growing and that the last Area Committee meeting whereby 300 concerned residents gathered was really only the start.  What was interesting was that Ms Mcay told me that the college now had some form of charity status which they had recently been given. What was also interesting was that Ms Mclay said that she did not know that the college had missed out on funding due to not applying in time and that she would be speaking directly to the college and governors about this matter.
Ms Mcay also told me about how Holmfirth had won their battle against Tesco with the help of the Coop !  SO BRING IT ON BRYCE !    ;D.   BRYCE FOR MP ??  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 30, 2011, 12:48:22 PM
Some posters have been put up tonight on trees , look out as your passing ! Sadly not as many as we would have liked because we were getting stopped often by concerned residents who were worried about the increased traffic a supermarket would bring and the safety of their children with increased traffic.  We also spoke to many elderly people who live at the side of the college and across the road who were in fear of the increased crime and noise a supermarket would bring ? SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY AND MR HUBERT I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT !  OH SILLY ME YOU DON'T LIVE HERE DO YOU !   

We also gave a clear message to residents to ask their local councillors what they are doing because if the councillors are not behind this all the way the LIBERALS will be out of Marple and we will have an out of work MP

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different !   TURN THIS VILLAGE RED   PLEASE PUT YOUR POSTER UP. BELIEVE ME TESCO WILL BE MONITORING THE COMMUNITIES REACTION !!!
Have you had permission to post on trees .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on July 30, 2011, 02:00:08 PM
No trees were harmed, I saw people hugging them ,speaking to them and kissing them all goodnight. ZZZZZZ Awh!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 03:54:08 PM
Some posters have been put up tonight on trees , look out as your passing ! Sadly not as many as we would have liked because we were getting stopped often by concerned residents who were worried about the increased traffic a supermarket would bring and the safety of their children with increased traffic.  We also spoke to many elderly people who live at the side of the college and across the road who were in fear of the increased crime and noise a supermarket would bring ? SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY AND MR HUBERT I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT !  OH SILLY ME YOU DON'T LIVE HERE DO YOU !   

We also gave a clear message to residents to ask their local councillors what they are doing because if the councillors are not behind this all the way the LIBERALS will be out of Marple and we will have an out of work M

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different !   TURN THIS VILLAGE RED   PLEASE PUT YOUR POSTER UP. BELIEVE ME TESCO WILL BE MONITORING THE COMMUNITIES REACTION !!!
Have you had permission to post on trees .
. IS IT YOU THAT HAS TAKEN THEM DOWN?  IF IT IS HIBBERT LANE RESIDENTS ARE AFTER YOU  :o
WE HAVE GOT PLENTY MORE  :-*. BIGGER AND BETTER !!!  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 04:27:21 PM
I am getting a little concerned that some people I have been speaking to do not understand just how large this supermarket is going to be  ??? Some people think that's it's going to be something like a Tesco Express using the 1934 building  ???  Now I can not do it, but I am sure someone can, So can we put on here a picture of the one in Cheadle Heath giving height and coverage   The land at Hibbert Lane is 8.6 acres and the supermarket can built on nearly 6 acres.   That's the size of 6 FOOTBALL PITCHES!   Can you imagine the amount of noise and lights 24 hrs a day 264 days of the year   :-*
Residents are also becoming concerned on Buxton Lane and Cross lane due to when the Hibbert Lane college closes they will have twice as much traffic, twice as many coaches and twice as many students  Cross Lane is also concerned that they maybe become the rat run off Stockport Road up to the supermarket
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on July 30, 2011, 04:30:37 PM
The Marple in Action website mentions "our already congested roads". The roads in Marple are only busy at rush hour, in the morning and mid-afternoon. A new supermarket won't suddenly mean lots of people coming to Marple to go shopping during rush hour.

It also mentions the new supermarket should "Have conditions imposed so that it can only sell groceries (no flowers, newspapers, stationery, clothes, shoes, electrical goods) so that it doesn't impact on local shops too much." I don't see anyone telling the Co-op they should stop selling certain things.  ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on July 30, 2011, 05:25:19 PM
I'm still wondering where the idea that Tesco are building a 6 acre, 24hr store comes from. What possible reason would they do that? It is ridiculous and will NOT happen.

The store in Stockport is in a catchment area of hundreds of thousands, next to the motorway etc. And just about justifies 24hr opening. Why would you possibly think it would make good business sense to open such a big store, not too far away from competition (sainsburys, morrisons, co-op)

IF Tesco buys the land (which will probably only happen if CAMSFC have already got permission for change of usage class) then it would be no bigger than the Glossop branch, perhaps even smaller and certainly not 24hrs.

-just guessing! Like everyone else is!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 05:50:19 PM
The Civic society have information provided by Ms Cassidy   It was circulated at the Area committee meeting I will see if we can put the email on the site may have to get permission from college first this time  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 30, 2011, 05:51:42 PM
At the meeting last week the council planning dept (who have had exploratory talks with CAMSFC) when asked what size of Supermarket could they build on the site, replied one about the size of Morrissons in Cheadle Heath. He also pointed out that 10 years after they buy the site they can also build on the playing fields (another 5 acres) !!!
This ain't going to be a convenience store more like a horrible inconvenient store (for the people of Marple)+ retail park.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 30, 2011, 05:55:07 PM
but i thought the council planning department had already said that they would refuse planning app as its designated housing land? Becuase tis contrary to Stockports core planning stategy? so why is the planning dept now saying they can?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 06:37:29 PM
Hi Lisa at the meeting we had with the Principal and Mr Hubert (finance ) last Wed.  The principle informed all present that, she had two interested supermarkets but that they had a preferred one and  after the governors meeting in Oct 2011 she would be signing with her preferred supermarket.  When asked about issues the college would face re planning regulations her reply was that the colleges legal team had assured the college that they could over come any regulations which would prevent the college from selling and the supermarket from building.  We were all shocked that it had got this far and amazed at the confidence of the principle as she delivered the news.  We had also been informed that the people of Marple had been involved in a telephone poll that showed all involved that a supermarket was what the community wanted.  I have not been contacted have you or has anyone you know been contacted ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: BidingTime on July 30, 2011, 06:59:50 PM
Where does anyone get the idea Marples roads are only busy at rush hour ?? i've already answered this in another post but Marples "rush hour" is not ONE hour morning and evening.........its for HOURS (pleural).
Try leaving Marple YEAR ROUND anytime between 7am and 9.30am and returning between 3pm and 6pm and then say Marples roads are not busy.

OF COURSE people are going to be shopping to and from a proposed Tescos between the hours of 3pm and 6pm.

The idea that Marple has ONE rush hour AM and PM is fantasy and i can only guess people who do not drive in and out of Marple at the times stated have that fantasy  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 07:12:42 PM
I agree have you seen Marple Hall students trying to cross down near the school it's dreadful and a wonder no one has been injured.   The emergency services must be horrified by the news of increased traffic, I often see them trying to get past cars queuing on and around Dan Bank..  I sometimes wonder if the people who post on this site even live in Marple, shall we ask Admin  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 30, 2011, 08:41:14 PM
Part of the covenants say;

There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site

I recall it being suggested at the meeting in the park that provided such facilities were provided at Buxton lane this would satisfy the covenant-I assume this is suggested as the Hibbert lane site would be incorporated with Buxton lane.  I construe the above to mean the site i.e. the land-not the building.  It refers to the site being used for adult education-meaning the land-this should also apply to the latter covenants surely?

Is it correct to say the covenants apply to the land/site not the building?

Hi Maria - that's a good question : the college's response to the convenant FOI failed to cover the wording of the covenant and failed to cover the Buxton Lane / Cheadle covenant details.  I've asked them to expand/clarify, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#outgoing-143240 (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#outgoing-143240)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 30, 2011, 08:44:24 PM
Hi Lisa at the meeting we had with the Principal and Mr Hubert (finance ) last Wed.  The principle informed all present that, she had two interested supermarkets but that they had a preferred one and  after the governors meeting in Oct 2011 she would be signing with her preferred supermarket.  When asked about issues the college would face re planning regulations her reply was that the colleges legal team had assured the college that they could over come any regulations which would prevent the college from selling and the supermarket from building.  We were all shocked that it had got this far and amazed at the confidence of the principle as she delivered the news.  We had also been informed that the people of Marple had been involved in a telephone poll that showed all involved that a supermarket was what the community wanted.  I have not been contacted have you or has anyone you know been contacted ?
               Yes Over twelve months ago outside mcays lady doing survey .just general questions what would you like to see in Marple super market did get mentioned . [ i am not making this up] Miss Marple .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 30, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
The Marple in Action website mentions "our already congested roads". The roads in Marple are only busy at rush hour, in the morning and mid-afternoon.
OK.  So you're saying that during daylight hours, the roads in Marple are ok between 12:00 and 14:00 but busy all other times.  That sounds fairly congested to me.

A new supermarket won't suddenly mean lots of people coming to Marple to go shopping during rush hour.
Disagree.  The Tesco in Glossop, for example, and is very busy during the evening rush hour (folk getting the week's groceries while they're passing on their way home).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 30, 2011, 08:59:19 PM
I live on Hibbert Lane and notice throughout the day emergency services going up and down the road at all hours-using it as a main cut through between both Stockport road and the A6 (Stepping Hill Hostpital). The nearest other 2 roads linking Stockport Road to the A6 are Offerton Road (Dan Bank) and Albion Road (New Mills) about 5miles apart.

I know that the pro Tesco people out there are stating the traffic will not be increased substantially in Marple-BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY GOING TO INCREASE ON HIBBERT LANE/WINDLEHURST ROAD-And that is FACT.

TESC-NO

Every big superstore doesnt help!!!

Mike
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 30, 2011, 09:10:02 PM
Further to my last post I have just remembered that there is a small connecting bridge with traffic lights connecting Hibbert Lane/Windlehurst Lane.  Is this going to mean that ALL the large lorries delivering to the supermarket will be coming in/out of Marple via Dan Bank/Strines Road?

TESC-NO

Every big superstore doesnt help!!!

Mike
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 30, 2011, 10:14:20 PM
Further to my last post I have just remembered that there is a small connecting bridge with traffic lights connecting Hibbert Lane/Windlehurst Lane.  Is this going to mean that ALL the large lorries delivering to the supermarket will be coming in/out of Marple via Dan Bank/Strines Road?

Yep. I can't see how those 44 foot 38 tonne lorries could make it over that bridge.  Up to 50 deliveries per day.  Could be tricky negotiating around the Marple Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane roundabout too, hence the suspicion that the swimming pool+newsagent would need demolishing and then building a large roundabout using the newly-flattened land.

(size/weight/frequency estimate taken from here (http://saveashtead.co.uk/what-we-would-like-to-see/our-letter-on-objection/lorry-traffic-generation-at-tesco-stores/))
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 30, 2011, 11:46:56 PM
Interesting analysis (less emotional and less reactionary than we've seen of late in the forum) covering the Marple vs Supermarket Superpowers battle, at Didsbury resident (and CAMSFC alumni) Josef Darlington's blog.

http://www.josefadarlington.co.uk/1/post/2011/07/the-marple-tesco-situation.html (http://www.josefadarlington.co.uk/1/post/2011/07/the-marple-tesco-situation.html)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 11:53:54 PM
Hi can one of you put the Holmfirth article on it's the one where the coop helped the community defeat Tesco ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on July 31, 2011, 12:35:28 AM
An article on the Holmfirth story is here...  THERE IS HOPE!!

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6873375.ece (http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6873375.ece)

Re the phone survey mentioned by Miss Marple in post 457 - I believe I participated in this. A couple of months ago a well-spoken man cold-called to ask about my shopping habits. As far as I can remember, the questions were did I use local stores for my supermarket shopping, and for toys, clothes, fruit and veg, electrical goods and car accessories. My answers were that I do use an out of town supermarket for large items - washing powder, loo rolls, cereals, fruit juice. I usually use Aldi in Stockport because I drive past this on my way home from work. I do not drive past the Co-op and if I did I would avoid it because the car park is a nightmare at busy times (too many Mellor tractors). Everything else is bought locally from the Co-op (I walk there) and local shops. Regarding spend, I'd say 75% is local.

I sincerely hope this wasn't taken as a vote of approval for a new superstore in Marple. If the question had been "Do you want a Tesco Extra in Marple" the answer would have been NO NO NO!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 31, 2011, 12:47:07 AM
thanks for putting that link on !   Apparently Tesco do it by car reg recognition , they get to know which of their stores you visit by clocking the reg, so we will all have to stop going to Tesco or black your reg out driving into Tesco Car park
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 31, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
thanks for putting that link on !   Apparently Tesco do it by car reg recognition , they get to know which of their stores you visit by clocking the reg, so we will all have to stop going to Tesco or black your reg out driving into Tesco Car park

Nice theory Miss Marple, but it's actually done using their CRUCIBLE database.  By presenting your Clubcard when paying for goods, you announce yourself to Tesco, allowing them to track your name, address, purchase history to Tesco.  They then use the ZODIAC tool to do more advanced profiling (like "how many Glossop Tesco shoppers who live in SK6 visited our store during w/c 1st August 2011, and what was their average spend").

If you don't like it, options are : boycott Tesco, shop there but don't present your Clubcard, or the really sneaky option is to swap your Clubcard with a friend in another town in order to screw up their data.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 31, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Blog is interesting but there isn't much counter argument. 

Can anyone confirm what the 2 supermarkets are? Is one definately Tesco?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 31, 2011, 10:51:50 AM
miss marple...i understand that the college think they can by pass it ..the point im trying to make is this is TWO different planning men from stockport council saying TWO different things.. its a worry and needs clarification from the head of planning.  They really should at this stage be singing from same song book.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on July 31, 2011, 10:59:57 AM
To JMC - I believe other supermarket chain was Waitrose - offered £6m. Housing would generate £2m, Tesco offered £12m.
Was told this by the chap behind the counter at White's butchers.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 31, 2011, 11:02:03 AM
To JMC - I believe other supermarket chain was Waitrose - offered £6m. Housing would generate £2m, Tesco offered £12m.
Was told this by the chap behind the counter at White's butchers.

Thanks Cyberman.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 31, 2011, 11:12:21 AM
To JMC - I believe other supermarket chain was Waitrose - offered £6m. Housing would generate £2m, Tesco offered £12m.
Was told this by the chap behind the counter at White's butchers.

Not quite the same as what we heard when it was discovered that the college governors met to discuss bids received last week. Then it was said that bids were received from Tesco, Sainsbury and Waitrose, with the Waitrose bid being too low. At the Area Committee Meeting Tesco and Asda were mentioned as the two being considered, so all that seems to be clear is that we're not certain who the two really are.

An interesting comment passed at the Area Committee in the Park was that the college grant application (that was apparently submitted two weeks too late) was only for £7M, so why do they need £12M now?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on July 31, 2011, 11:19:55 AM
as this rumour has been going round for ever and now proves to be true   how did supposedly  well educated people apply for the grant two weeks late it smells a bit fishy to me  they must have known the time frame to apply
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on July 31, 2011, 11:23:07 AM
as i stated on the 17th august 2006 these thing are cut and dried long before they become public knowledge
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 31, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 31, 2011, 12:13:07 PM
Circled by the Peak Forest Canal, Marple Village is less than one mile from the development and offers a range of local amenities for all your everyday needs. Alongside a selection of shops and restaurants, the village is also dotted with plenty of traditional pubs, and it boasts one of the country's few remaining independent cinemas.

It's a village surrounded by natural beauty, with endless canal tow path walks and numerous parks to relax in, including The Roman Lakes - popular with anglers, walkers, horse riders and nature lovers.

And if you like to up the pace a little in your free time, you can make the most of the local leisure and sports clubs too, including a swimming pool, football, rugby, cricket and golf clubs.


The above is taken from a housing development site advertising new houses in Marple and to me summaries why we do not need a superstore.

Apathy must be overcome and we must do all we can in a proactive cohesive way if we are going to beat the proposed application.  Have any further meetings/gatherings to discuss who can do what been set up? One large group will be more effective rather than small groups of individuals.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 31, 2011, 01:50:37 PM
Even if the college had been successfull with their bid for funding, they would still have been looking to sell the Hibbert Lane site, so all this about missing deadlines by 2 weeks is a red herring and is diverting attention from the real issues.
In Aug 2006 the college was already looking at selling the land.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 02:54:20 PM
Even if the college had been successfull with their bid for funding, they would still have been looking to sell the Hibbert Lane site, so all this about missing deadlines by 2 weeks is a red herring and is diverting attention from the real issues.
In Aug 2006 the college was already looking at selling the land.

No they weren't.

The original plan was to build on the Hibbert Lane car park and then demolish the old building.

It was the Buxton Lane site that had an uncertain future at that time.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on July 31, 2011, 02:56:54 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.
(http://www.autism-is-us.com/images/com.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on July 31, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
I've just watched the 'TOWN' programme on BBC iplayer that was on during the week. It was about Ludlow and there was a bit about Tescos wanting to build a store on the outskirts of the town. Naturally the town was concerned that the store would take custom away from the local shops and eventually it was agreed that Tesco would build in the centre of the town.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on July 31, 2011, 04:19:04 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Yes, i removed the fuel garage, as i'm not 100% sure if tesco is going to add a fuel station on the COM development, apart from that everything else is there.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 04:34:40 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Yes, i removed the fuel garage, as i'm not 100% sure if tesco is going to add a fuel station on the COM development, apart from that everything else is there.

You're not 100% sure they will have a clothing department either, so why not reduce it for that also? Same applies to every other department. If you're going to compare the sites do it honestly and properly.

In fact, you're not 100% sure that Tesco are even interested in opening in Marple. It could be any of the supermarkets.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on July 31, 2011, 04:38:43 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Yes, i removed the fuel garage, as i'm not 100% sure if tesco is going to add a fuel station on the COM development, apart from that everything else is there.

You're not 100% sure they will have a clothing department either, so why not reduce it for that also? Same applies to every other department. If you're going to compare the sites do it honestly and properly.

In fact, you're not 100% sure that Tesco are even interested in opening in Marple. It could be any of the supermarkets.

I'm going off the fact that tescos has expressed interest in purchasing the site. And i would also point out that the comparision is purely to show people the size of the land, not what tescos (or any other food chain) could build on the site.

At any rate, the site is still huge, and has more than enough space to accomodate a full blown superstore, which is what that comparision set out to show.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 31, 2011, 04:46:45 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.
(http://www.autism-is-us.com/images/com.jpg)

Interesting post Smithy166.  While we're not entirely sure it's necessarily Tesco wanting to buy the site, the comparison gives a really good insight into possible supermarket size.  Any folk think it's going to be a quaint little Tesco Express should have their illusions shattered by your images.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 04:52:06 PM
I'm going off the fact that tescos has expressed interest in purchasing the site. And i would also point out that the comparision is purely to show people the size of the land, not what tescos (or any other food chain) could build on the site.

At any rate, the site is still huge, and has more than enough space to accomodate a full blown superstore, which is what that comparision set out to show.

Its not a fact that Tesco have expressed an interest, its a rumour.

Why not compare it to a football pitch? Somebody thinks its the size of 6 of these.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 31, 2011, 05:11:29 PM
Stockport Green Party have raised their concerns over the proposed sale, including the prospect of the swimming pool being demolished, see this link (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/localsites/stockport/news/Marple_Greens_raise_Tesco_concern.html).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 31, 2011, 09:21:55 PM
Stephen Downs
Contacted MARPLE in Action  today to say

That the Min's of the meeting of 12 th July will show that he withdrew from the meeting when Hibbert Lane was discussed and that he has now subsequently resigned as he states that he disagrees 100%
with the proposals.  

One down how many more to go  ???    SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY EVEN YOUR GOVENOURS REALISE THAT WE ARE A STRONG COMMUNITY AND THAT YOUR PROPOSALS ARE RIDICULOUS.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 12:23:01 AM
Karen Moore Governor     K.Moore@mmu.ac.uk.  0161 247 1021 ,
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 12:36:41 AM
Dr Anand Dutta Governor and also a Governor for NHS foundation trust   Stockport

Email via.  Petra.Richardson@stockport.nhs.uk


AND WERE OFF  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 08:31:15 AM
ITS ASDA !!

We have just received a tip of from a very very reliable source and the favourite is ASDA

TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY MS CASSIDY IT'S NOT EVEN A BRITISH COMPANY

WELL I HOPE YOU "HAVE A NICE DAY "  MS CASSIDY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE OFF MARPLE ARE HAVING AN AWFUL ONE !!!!

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 01, 2011, 08:52:36 AM
It is a pity that Stephen Downs has resigned as we could have done with his no vote at the next meeting. Does anyone have his contact details he could have very valuable information for Marple in Action.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mikes on August 01, 2011, 10:17:27 AM
Have any of you seen this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14326362

I guess the same would be said of an ASDA.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on August 01, 2011, 12:15:42 PM
I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.  

This is true, we did a lot of work with colleges and huge swathes of them got cancelled, a lot after significant sums were spent on design fees. The colleges were led to believe that the money was just a formality. Head of LSC lost his jobs, loads of poorer colleges effectively wasted a load of money. A dreadful state of affairs.  :(

We did the acoustics on Acquinas FWIW :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 01, 2011, 01:42:27 PM
So asdas the favorate now?
We could do with changing the topic title at some point then  ::)

The more I look at this the more I think that the way to beat the Town killer guganaught is to convince another company to buy the site, weither that be housing, A leasure complex (a bit like hyde pool -  built in conjunction with marple baths) or maybe a small retail park type affair, so its not just one huge store, but several little ones.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on August 01, 2011, 03:11:29 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 01, 2011, 03:20:27 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?

His website hasn't been updated in 3 months! (give or take), so either hes on holiday or doing what most MPs do - burying his head in the sand hoping it will all go away
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 01, 2011, 04:27:50 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?

His website hasn't been updated in 3 months! (give or take), so either hes on holiday or doing what most MPs do - burying his head in the sand hoping it will all go away

I would suggest that insulting our MP is not the best way to enlist his assistance.

If his website hasn't been updated for 3 months (give or take), then its very clever that it includes his activities in Parliament within the last two weeks.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 01, 2011, 04:30:44 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?

His website hasn't been updated in 3 months! (give or take), so either hes on holiday or doing what most MPs do - burying his head in the sand hoping it will all go away

I would suggest that insulting our MP is not the best way to enlist his assistance.

If his website hasn't been updated for 3 months (give or take), then its very clever that it includes his activities in Parliament within the last two weeks.

I apologise, as usual I jumped the gun. As i based what i said on the "recent updates" section on the homepage.
Mr stunnel also has a facebook page located herehttp://en-gb.facebook.com/andrew.stunell?sk=wall (http://en-gb.facebook.com/andrew.stunell?sk=wall). I'm woundering weather messaging him via that page (or friending him) might get a more prompt respone?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 01, 2011, 04:38:31 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 01, 2011, 04:43:03 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
I think he is refering to the college governors.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 01, 2011, 04:59:32 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
I think he is refering to the college governors.


So that would include the ones who have been elected. As stated on the college website.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 01, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
I think he is refering to the college governors.


So that would include the ones who have been elected. As stated on the college website.
I thought they were all elected, not just one or two.
I'm not sure weither this is relavent but the estates commity hasn't met since last year, which leads me to belive this little "plan" has been in the pipe longer than we first thought.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 09:14:57 PM
There will be some meetings taking place very soon when a large enough venue can be found which can accommodate 100 - 150 people at a time.  MARPLE in action are aware due to the high volume of phone calls to the action line that the community wants to become involved and active   A  series of meetings will be held  whereby we can organise ourselves into action groups, there is a wealth of knowledge and skills out there which we need if we are to succeed.
  There are lots of things going on behind the scenes and although it looks like its all gone quiet believe me it has not.  There are lots of people doing the ground work and finding things out which are beneficial to our cause.   One of our main aims is to hold a mass rally in the Memorial Park and to invite Ms Cassidy, Mr Hubert and the  GOVENOURS (invites have been sent to ask for their attendance)  Andrew Stunall when back off his holidays this week will be contacting MARPLE In Action to inform us of his availability and of course all our elected councillors have been asked to attend but to date only three have replied. 
We did collect email addresses at the last Area committee meeting so we will be contacting you via email to ask if you will attend a meeting, we will also leaflet drop again , and will be relying on word of mouth.  So please bear with us this is just the start.   If you have not given an email address or contact telephone number please do so now either by a personal message via the forum or contact the action line on 07790419494. Together we are strong ! Please become involved  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 01, 2011, 09:37:36 PM
I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.   

Gosh, so when you are blaming the lack of funding on school & college building on the current coalition government you were actually saying something you knew not to be true to make cheap political capital. In reality, it was yet another example of out of control spending by the Scottish PM's government. Tssk tssk.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 10:17:43 PM
Apologies thought it would be obvious-the proposed sale of the site to a retailer as the preferred option.
.  Cheers Maria for searching out information !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 02, 2011, 07:24:20 AM
I appear to have confused you, Duke - my aplogies.
1. About three years ago, shortly before its demise, the LSC got itself into a mess by promising capital fundind which it did not actually have. There was no overspening, however - the promises were withdrawn and various college had to abandon their building projects, as Acoustician has conifrimed on this thread.
2. Entirely unrelated to that cock up by the LSC, last year the newly-elected government scrapped the previous government's school (not college) building scheme called Building Schools for the future.
That's all.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 02, 2011, 08:44:32 AM
I appear to have confused you, Duke - my aplogies.
1. About three years ago, shortly before its demise, the LSC got itself into a mess by promising capital fundind which it did not actually have. There was no overspening, however - the promises were withdrawn and various college had to abandon their building projects, as Acoustician has conifrimed on this thread.
2. Entirely unrelated to that cock up by the LSC, last year the newly-elected government scrapped the previous government's school (not college) building scheme called Building Schools for the future.
That's all.

I think we agree that the totally inept labour government completely mismanaged a spending program (yet again). It's hugely hypocritical of that party and it's deluded supporters to critiques the current governments remedial action.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 02, 2011, 09:08:20 AM
I think you said in our last text that you followed the thread on here so this is the only way of getting a message to you.
All I want to say is please contact me again you could really  help the people of MARPLE  I think you may have been concerned that we would share your identity or contact details with others but I can assure you that we would do everything  to protect your identity   I provided you with some information in one of our lasts texts, I hope probably will change  to Yes  ???  please help us ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on August 02, 2011, 09:26:14 AM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?

Whoops my mistake, apologies. I was trying, without success to convey the notion that unlike local, or national politicians the committee, whose members may well be sympathetic to the aims of Marple in Action, are not accountable to the populous of Marple. But doubtless will be torn between the needs of the college, present and future, and the need to consider Marple's present and the effect of any decision on it's future.

Perhaps I should throw the spade out of the hole, as my logic seems to be awry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on August 02, 2011, 09:52:10 AM
I think we agree that the totally inept labour government completely mismanaged a spending program (yet again). It's hugely hypocritical of that party and it's deluded supporters to critiques the current governments remedial action.

I think were getting massively off topic.

Wiki on LSC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_and_Skills_Council) if you're interested.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 02, 2011, 12:22:43 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?

Whoops my mistake, apologies. I was trying, without success to convey the notion that unlike local, or national politicians the committee, whose members may well be sympathetic to the aims of Marple in Action, are not accountable to the populous of Marple. But doubtless will be torn between the needs of the college, present and future, and the need to consider Marple's present and the effect of any decision on it's future.

Perhaps I should throw the spade out of the hole, as my logic seems to be awry.

I think that's a red herring, yes there are unelected people who are going their jobs in getting the best deal they can for the college. Whilst tehre is a chance of them selling hte site for £12m they will hope to do so, & rightly so.

It's for elected people to then put the checks and balances into motion to ensure anydevelopment is not going to be detrimental to the voters of Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 02, 2011, 12:40:49 PM
I think you said in our last text that you followed the thread on here so this is the only way of getting a message to you.
All I want to say is please contact me again you could really  help the people of MARPLE  I think you may have been concerned that we would share your identity or contact details with others but I can assure you that we would do everything  to protect your identity   I provided you with some information in one of our lasts texts, I hope probably will change  to Yes  ???  please help us ?

I know who Maria is, I'll ask her to make herself known.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 02, 2011, 12:51:39 PM
See below received from Ms Cassidy to my request for information.

Dear Ms Penny

 

Statement from the Chair of Governors

 

Thank you for your recent email.  The Chair of Governors, Lawrie Grant, has issued the following statement on behalf of Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College regarding the possible sale of land at its Hibbert Lane campus, Marple.

 

“The current 1930s buildings at Hibbert Lane are very expensive, inefficient and inappropriate for education in the 21st century.  Their annual maintenance costs continue to escalate – money which should be invested in direct teaching for the benefit of the students.

 

Another factor is the announcement by the current government of a severe reduction in the funding of sixth form colleges.  In addition we have also seen a serious rise in VAT.

 

There is no doubt that the Marple campus of Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College is in need of urgent investment and we must sell the land at Hibbert Lane to afford this investment.  Who will buy the site and what use the planners will ultimately approve is up to them.

We can make no assumption as to who the ultimate purchaser will be.  No contracts have been signed and any decision is subject to the approval of the SMBC Planning Committee.  The College, being a public body, must always act in the best interests of our students and is duty bound to accept the highest offer without fear or favour.

 

We must also stress that there will be no impact on the excellent provision of outstanding education that we provide for our students and that it is strictly business as usual.”

 

Please also note that the College is an incorporated body and unlike a school is not funded by the local authority.

 

Should you have any further queries in this regard do please let me know.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Christina Cassidy

Principal
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 02, 2011, 12:56:56 PM
Interesting that they are having windows replaced today-waste of money if going to sell?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 02, 2011, 02:35:33 PM
Thanks Maria - that's a clear and useful statement from the college. It's not likely to set many minds at rest, but it may help to clarify the key issues.
Re your point about replacing windows, this issue is likely to drag on for years, and as long as the college is working in the buildings, routine maintenance will obviously have to continue.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 02, 2011, 02:53:27 PM
I know Dave, just frustrating that they seem to suggest will sign contracts in October yet waste money replacing windows in August.  Planning may take years but selling the site may not-that is my worry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 02, 2011, 07:12:29 PM
One can only hope that the glass has shattered due to all the objections that are hopefully being shouted at Ms Cassidy in the countless meetings she is having which makes her unavailable for comment !  Here's hoping  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 02, 2011, 07:58:24 PM
Is it me or does the line "Should you have any further queries in this regard do please let me know." seem slighty "stuck up"?

ALso, i've had a few ideas with regards to the marple in action campaign.
First, maybe a E-mail mailing list?
The idea behind this is that it might be easier to keep people informed with important news, insted of them having to check the forum everyday.
Leading on form this is the idea of a blog, which serves the same purpose of the mailing list. however, the blog would, in some cases, be more flexible, because it would enable users to comment on the "post" with there ideas and thoughts.
If you guys need help setting the mailing list up, or setting the blog up let me know :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on August 03, 2011, 08:54:57 AM
 
It may be helpful for someone from Marple in Action to contact the Dr Stephen Watkins, Director of Public Health at NHS Stockport. He would certainly be involved in discussing any planning application with the local authority, but would also want to assess any potential health risks to the local population of any new development, due to increased engine emissions, noise and light pollution, loss of sports facilities and greenspace etc. The main switchboard number of NHS Stockport is 426 9000.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 03, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
We have got some good press coverage in the Stockport Express and on the news boards so things are moving  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 03, 2011, 01:40:13 PM
... loss of sports facilities and greenspace etc.

It's tragic that in the very year the UK hosts the London Olympics, we could be seeing Marple's sporting facilities (gym, sports hall, swimming baths) razed to the ground.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 03, 2011, 06:44:04 PM
Well another busy day !   I have spoken to ASDA land buyers. and TESCO Head office but all deny intrest in the land which didn't surprise me but I think it surprised them that we knew something.    I have contacted Andrews Stunell office to ask him to attend our rally in the park and to ask him why he didn't attend the last one ?  but he is not as yet back from holiday !  I have also sent an invitation to Ms Cassidy, Mr Hubert and the governors  to invite them to our Rally in the park (information to follow soon  )  4 days ago but I have not had a response which is strange, I thought we got on really well when I met Ms Cassidy at out last meeting, just shows what a bad judge of People  I am Now what else ? Oh YES ! I am in the local  Stockport Express Advertiser at the area committee meeting !  WOW ! pity it's not better colour quality to let my blue rinse shine through  :P.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 03, 2011, 09:04:01 PM
Well another busy day !   I have spoken to ASDA land buyers. and TESCO Head office but all deny intrest in the land which didn't surprise me but I think it surprised them that we knew something.    I have contacted Andrews Stunell office to ask him to attend our rally in the park and to ask him why he didn't attend the last one ?  but he is not as yet back from holiday !  I have also sent an invitation to Ms Cassidy, Mr Hubert and the governors  to invite them to our Rally in the park (information to follow soon  )  4 days ago but I have not had a response which is strange, I thought we got on really well when I met Ms Cassidy at out last meeting, just shows what a bad judge of People  I am Now what else ? Oh YES ! I am in the local  Stockport Express Advertiser at the area committee meeting !  WOW ! pity it's not better colour quality to let my blue rinse shine through  :P.

Is this the article? http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1454010_supermarket-land-row-meeting-moved-to-park-after-room-proves-too-small-as-hundreds-attend
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: squirrel123 on August 04, 2011, 09:03:01 AM
Just wondered if anyone knows the identity of the people who have been removing the red protest posters? Someone came onto our proerty at about midnight last night and removed both of ours. Technically, I think this is trespass....I'd be very interested if anyone has their details or sees their registration number.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 04, 2011, 09:14:47 AM
It's a red car-that is all I know but it is trespass-ours was removed too late last night.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 04, 2011, 10:16:20 AM
It's a red car-that is all I know but it is trespass-ours was removed too late last night.

There was a commotion last night. Miss Marple, I think you have a story for the press there.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 04, 2011, 10:32:05 AM

Is this the article? http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1454010_supermarket-land-row-meeting-moved-to-park-after-room-proves-too-small-as-hundreds-attend


Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 04, 2011, 02:34:49 PM

Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
[/quote]
Shark sandwich's? now i'm confused...
Anway, back on topic
I'm getting a sense of foul play with regards to a dissapearing signs, as its seems like it could be more than coincidence that more than 1 sign has been taken down, and in more than one location.
If you don't mind me asking, what area(s) have the signs been removed from?
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 04, 2011, 02:57:29 PM

Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
Shark sandwich's? now i'm confused...
Anway, back on topic
I'm getting a sense of foul play with regards to a dissapearing signs, as its seems like it could be more than coincidence that more than 1 sign has been taken down, and in more than one location.
If you don't mind me asking, what area(s) have the signs been removed from?
 
[/quote]

Maria Lives on Hibbert Lane, I noticed a house on the cescent of houses that had a dedicated pole for their sign that was signless but didn't give it much notice.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 04, 2011, 03:34:06 PM

Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
Shark sandwich's? now i'm confused...
Anway, back on topic
I'm getting a sense of foul play with regards to a dissapearing signs, as its seems like it could be more than coincidence that more than 1 sign has been taken down, and in more than one location.
If you don't mind me asking, what area(s) have the signs been
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on August 04, 2011, 03:43:57 PM
Just wondered if anyone knows the identity of the people who have been removing the red protest posters? Someone came onto our proerty at about midnight last night and removed both of ours. Technically, I think this is trespass....I'd be very interested if anyone has their details or sees their registration number.

It is trespass... It is also theft. Hopefully, they (whoever "they" are) won't win and the residents of Marple won't be too scared to put posters on their property. For every one that gets taken down, we should put up ten! Any property that is near enough to the road could put them inside their windows too. The shops have now got them inside. They won't get them all!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 04, 2011, 04:06:00 PM
Just wondered if anyone knows the identity of the people who have been removing the red protest posters? Someone came onto our proerty at about midnight last night and removed both of ours. Technically, I think this is trespass....I'd be very interested if anyone has their details or sees their registration number.

It is trespass... It is also theft. Hopefully, they (whoever "they" are) won't win and the residents of Marple won't be too scared to put posters on their property. For every one that gets taken down, we should put up ten! Any property that is near enough to the road could put them inside their windows too. The shops have now got them inside. They won't get them all!
I aggree that we should print more and mroe posters etc, however, i think we need to clearly mark on the posters etc that "this poster is property of Marple-in-action. any party who steals this poster will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law." We should also moniter each poster that is easily accesible by anyone, maybe set up a camera so that we can catch however is trying to steal these as a last resort in hopes of stopping us stopping CAMSFC selling the site.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: squirrel123 on August 04, 2011, 04:35:31 PM
I have reported the 'theft' of our posters to the police and the press are interested too. The college have denied any responsibility for employing someone to take them down. Apparently, 2 men in a red car have been seen removing them from people's houses. If anyone can get the registration number of the car concerned, out Community Police Officers would like to have it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 04, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
I have reported the 'theft' of our posters to the police and the press are interested too. The college have denied any responsibility for employing someone to take them down. Apparently, 2 men in a red car have been seen removing them from people's houses. If anyone can get the registration number of the car concerned, out Community Police Officers would like to have it.

Execellent news!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 04, 2011, 07:31:33 PM
That's great news !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 05, 2011, 09:00:52 AM
I was speaking to the press yesterday and they were speaking about a couple of cases they had reported on where the supermarkets had won even after years of local opposition.   BUT ! In those cases the community did not become aware until after it had gone to planning.  So this is where we are different, we did get to know before it went to planning and was able to start our campaign early this is where we stand a better chance  according to people who have followed other super markets v communities.   If it had been left to {*the college} the first we would have known about it was when someone noticed an A4 piece of paper stuck to a lamppost informing us that plans could be seen in the library.

*This post has been edited with the agreement of the originator. Admin

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 05, 2011, 11:06:48 AM
I think these personal attacks on Ms Cassidy should stop.

She has a duty to get the best possible price for the land she needs to sell in order to provide better facilities for our young people.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 05, 2011, 11:20:20 AM
She does have a duty to the students but I do not believe it should simply go to the highest bidder-what is needed is fine but not selling off to the highest bidder at the expense of the surrounding area and the people who live on the doorstep.  I maintain it can be sold in a way that doesn't anger the community but still ensures the Buxton lane campus can be developed-I think if they would meet the general public rather than it all being cloak and dagger it would put a lot of rumour to rest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 05, 2011, 12:49:21 PM
I think these personal attacks on Ms Cassidy should stop.

She has a duty to get the best possible price for the land she needs to sell in order to provide better facilities for our young people.



+1
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 05, 2011, 12:55:42 PM
Tears?  Really?  

I agree its no use the personal attacks.. you will alienate alot of potential supporters.  Shes been doing her job and is now playing catch up.  I think  that an attempt at a compromise needs to be made.  

They HAVE to sell it, they need to provide better facilities... in theory the more money the better however i think the college needs to consider the community and maybe getting the community involved in the decision making process.. and possibly losing out on a bit of money but having the community behind them would be a better solution.

Surely its in the colleges interest to get the local community behind them at this stage and maybe we should be approaching them for conciliatory meetings? If they decide they want to do it behind closed doors then yep go for them but as a whole not individually.
 
BUT we need ideas.. we know what we dont want.. but what will we accept that maximises their profit and how can we get some other bidder involved??
Miss marple.. i cant really blame her for not wanting to meet you... even I might be frightened considering the rhetoric on here..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 05, 2011, 01:02:56 PM
Well at least it's keeping the momentum so I am happy with that   ;D. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 05, 2011, 01:04:59 PM
I wounder weither we could conveince the college to split the site into 2 halfs? by spliting the site up we effectivley kill 2 birds with one stone, because there limiting the size of the supermarket that could be built, and were still allowing the college to site the site. Although we'd have to make sure that we had a buyer lined up for one half of the site.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 05, 2011, 01:20:06 PM
I'm in agreement about the personal comments and Miss M and I have discussed her post in question. She did agree that I could delete it but instead I have just removed the personal items that several of you have referred to. I didn't wish to remove it altogether because it has some very valid points in it, not least that the college would have preferred to keep things quiet until they had a done deal.

The suggestion made to me that the principal and college cannot answer back though is not correct. A representative of the college is perfectly at liberty to register with the forum and respond to the many criticisms that have been directed at the way they have behaved over this matter so far and how they have disregarded any responsibility to the community that they are part of.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on August 05, 2011, 01:31:19 PM
"She has a duty to get the best possible price for the land she needs to sell in order to provide better facilities for our young people."

Doesn't better facilities include a better environment to live in outside the college? Less traffic pollution, an environment with decent community spirit, an infrastruture of small businesses to provide employment, and a town where the college is seen as a values and trusted neighbour, not a trojan horse?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: squirrel123 on August 05, 2011, 01:36:21 PM
Does anyone know what difference it makes if the college is a Charitable Trust (which I think it is but am trying to confirm this)? I think it might be a responsibility not to go for the highest bidder but to take more account of ethical and community concerns....but I am prepared to be wrong on this! It'd might be helpful to know if anyone has a clear understanding of what Charitable Trust status is.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 05, 2011, 01:45:01 PM
Mark.. I agree... however in order to go forward with what WE want we need to "forgive and forget" to a degree! and try and move forward with them.  At mo(completely different to the deliberate failure to inform!)  i expect keeping quiet is a panic situation .. its the holidays.. they re not quite sure which way to move... or which way public opinion will go.. they're probably waiting for legal advice..maybe even advice from the bidders!

They ARE going to sell it.. we don't want them to sell it to current bidders... so lets work with them to stop them doing exactly that! Harassing  them constantly isn't going to work as they will just hide!  I'm not saying we should stop raising awareness of the issues within our community at the same time just lets explore other avenues and keep it as positive pressure not abuse.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on August 05, 2011, 03:26:09 PM
I wounder weither we could conveince the college to split the site into 2 halfs? by spliting the site up we effectivley kill 2 birds with one stone, because there limiting the size of the supermarket that could be built, and were still allowing the college to site the site. Although we'd have to make sure that we had a buyer lined up for one half of the site.



An excellent idea!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 05, 2011, 05:26:21 PM
I think that some people think that they will not have problems due to not living on Hibbert Lane but I have just been informed from a very reliable source today that the college are planning to massively re develop and rebuild The Buxton Lane college with several high story buildings which if I lived on Cross lane , Buxton Lane or any of the houses around and about I would be mighty worried about being over looked, no parking, noise and traffic.

So if I am emotional or overly concerned so should we all !!  because as I have said time and time again on this site !  We can all be arm chair socialists but we all really  need now to wake up and smell the coffee.!!!
  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 05, 2011, 05:39:00 PM
I think that some people think that they will not have problems due to not living on Hibbert Lane but I have just been informed from a very reliable source today that the college are planning to massively re deveop and  rebuild The Buxton Lane college with several high story buildings which if I lived on Cross lane , Buxton Lane or any of the houses around and about I would be mighty worried about being over looked, no parking, noise and traffic    

Neil has submitted a FOI to the college concerning covenants at each campus (not just Hibbert Lane), see details of the FOI here (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#comment-19936).

Maria submitted a FOI to Stockport Council concerning costs of developing the Buxton Campus (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_cost_of_devloping_buxton_lan#incoming-198540) (which I am sure should not be subject to any commercial confidentiality issues, as it's about the College spending its own money on its own property).  The council have bounced it though, saying it's the College who know such info, so I'll speak to Maria about resubmitting it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 05, 2011, 05:42:45 PM
I think that some people think that they will not have problems due to not living on Hibbert Lane but I have just been informed from a very reliable source today that the college are planning to massively re develop and rebuild The Buxton Lane college with several high story buildings which if I lived on Cross lane , Buxton Lane or any of the houses around and about I would be mighty worried about being over looked, no parking, noise and traffic.

So if I am emotional or overly concerned so should we all !!  because as I have said time and time again on this site !  We can all be arm chair socialists but we all really  need now to wake up and smell the coffee.!!!
  
Tick Tock,Tick Tock!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 05, 2011, 06:59:39 PM
The college have disregarded selling to separate bodies as not viable-the supermarket want the land as they need a bigger store so would not agree to purchase only part.  They have advised that no money will pass hands until planning permission is granted-the planning is the key issue we should all be concerned with.  If planning is rejected, whether initially or otherwise, the sale will not go ahead and they then have to look at other options.  They also need planning for Buxton lane if they are to achieve what they wish.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 12:05:19 AM
 MARPLE IN ACTION  undertaking surveys and petitions re the proposed supermarket will be on Market St  from 10am - 4pm     The press will also be on Market Street tomorrow at 10-30 around The Iceland area.   Please come along it will be great to meet all the people who have offered their support.   I think I may have to request the services of Max Clifford at this rate
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Franz on August 06, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
I was blissfully unaware of this furore until an outbreak of  flyposting in Marple last weekend  and, as a result, I was unfortunately among the 23,500 Marple residents who did not attend the Area Committee meeting on 26th July. I have spent some time reading the posts in the hope  of establishing the facts but they seem rather difficult to find. At the moment they seem to consist of the fact that CAMSAC are considering the sale of land. Other than that there is much speculation and guesswork amounting to a protest against we know not whom in respect of their proposals for we know not what.
The particular targets seem to be supermarkets in general and that bete noire of the chattering classes, Tesco, in particular.
It would be interesting to know what proportion of the household expenditure of Marple people is actually spent in Marple. I suspect that it is a small fraction, the reason being that there isn’t a decent supermarket in the town and people prefer to travel to Hazel Grove, Poynton, Stockport, Romiley, or Glossop, depending on their preferred supplier, most of which are better served. As far as shopping mileage is concerned the impact of a new supermarket in Marple would be to reduce mine by 500 miles p.a.  There only needs to be 1000 other Marple residents in the same situation, and there would be a reduction of half a million miles.
While the prospect of a supermarket is at present unpalatable to some, including, no doubt, some who do not have a vested interest, this might well change as the decline in our standard of living gathers pace and private transport becomes more of a luxury than it is now. It is not unrealistic to envisage circumstances where any community of our size would be grateful to have within its boundaries a means of meeting its needs and ,while it appears that our elected representatives will for now prevent such a development, this is a democracy and they would no doubt bend with the wind. Let’s hope that when times get really bad Aldi, Lidl, or Netto will be prepared to come to the rescue.
Comparisons have been made between the potential site on Hibbert Lane and Tesco’s Portwood store but it seems ridiculous to suggest that they would consider a “superstore” in a suburb (aka”village”) of this size. They would be far more likely to build a more modest store and retain the ability to extend it if, and when, its value to local people has been established .Reference has been made to the rather industrial architecture of Tesco Glossop and Whalley Bridge. Again that is unthinkable and I am sure that any supermarket that might win the day would adopt a faux rural design to please the villagers.
While on the subject of Tesco, we should bear in mind that, over the past 30 years, they have been one of the most successful of British companies and most of the people in this country will have benefited from their enterprise in some way. They have been a  significant constituent of most pension funds and one of the few consistent contributors to those funds. They employ almost half a million people. They contribute a proportion of their pre tax profit to charity. Their innovations in marketing and technology have been of great benefit to consumers. They made the first online shopping transaction in the world in 1984. The introduction of Tesco own brand products covering three quality ranges and several product categories, together with its intense competition with other supermarket chains has had a helpfull impact on the CPI and their overseas operations result in a significant contribution to our balance of payment.
With regard to the recent posts regarding the posting of notices. All the ones that I saw were flyposting which, without a permit, is illegal under the Highways Act 1980, the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, the Anti–social Behaviour Act 2003 and the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005. Marple-in-Action are ill advised to associate the name with them, something which would no doubt be confirmed by any Community Support Officer.
Finally there is much sound debate and common sense displayed in the posts on this thread but, sprinkled among it there is some pure nastiness from those determined to display their ignorance and obsession. With friends like them Marple-in-Action cannot afford too many enemies
Just for the record, I have no connection with the college, with Tesco, or with any other supermarket and my car is blue, not red!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 06, 2011, 11:07:38 AM
You make some interesting points, Alstan. I know from talking to local people that quite a few people are in favour of a supermarket because they either already go to a tesco/asda etc. out of marple, they don't like the Co-op (usually quote it being expensive or a stranglehold) or think the jobs would be good for marple. Anyone against usually mention either traffic or the effect on local shops. It gets confusing, though, when some people say they don't mind a supermarket in the village centre (surely that will also take away from local shops).

One thing that stands out to me from the articles recently posted is that if a supermarket build a large store, they are depending on many thousands of peole going there and drawn from nearby areas. This would be my main concern. Even if people who normally drive out of the area to tesco/etc now stay in marple. would that be outweighed by people in neighbouring areas coming?

I also am not sure how the Buxton lane campus can be made to hold the entire population of the college. Is the grass area between peacefield school and the college belonging to the college? Presumably it would have to be a large high rise building.

It seems certain to me that the college will sell it to a supermarket and thats why they are selling Hibbert lane and not Buxton lane. I don't think the Co-op is going far enough with their offer of half of hanburys. People seem to want better prices than what the Co-op can offer. They should look at that asap as it could have more effect.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 06, 2011, 11:10:16 AM
Taken from the email posted a few pages earlier;
'Who will buy the site and what use the planners will ultimately approve is up to them.

We can make no assumption as to who the ultimate purchaser will be.  No contracts have been signed and any decision is subject to the approval of the SMBC Planning Committee.  The College, being a public body, must always act in the best interests of our students and is duty bound to accept the highest offer without fear or favour.'

Seems cut and dry to me that they have already made their minds up to take the offer from the highest bidder to do what they like with the land.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 06, 2011, 02:58:56 PM
Thank you, alstan and JMC, for contributing two of the most rational posts on this thread. Personally I have an open mind on this issue: I can understand the college's position, in seeking to improve the facilities for its students (aka our kids and grandkids), but I can also understand the opposition of those who live near the Hibbert Lane site.
However, one thing is clear: the way forward is through reasoned argument, and not through the personal vilification and near-hysteria of some posts on this thread :-(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 04:13:33 PM
Hi Alstan I am one of the founders of MIA and I take full responsibility for the fly posting   The police can easily contact me via the hot line which  would probably give us more publicity. 
 MARPLE IN ACTION have always encouraged people if they so wish to start their own group in favour of the proposed supermarket.  Please feel free to contact me via the hot line, the staff will take your details and I will return your call.    I will be happy to inform you personally about the meetings I have had with interested parties re this matter and that will give you information to make a decision based on an informed choice.  MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on August 06, 2011, 04:28:13 PM
Thank you, alstan and JMC, for contributing two of the most rational posts on this thread. Personally I have an open mind on this issue: I can understand the college's position, in seeking to improve the facilities for its students (aka our kids and grandkids), but I can also understand the opposition of those who live near the Hibbert Lane site.
However, one thing is clear: the way forward is through reasoned argument, and not through the personal vilification and near-hysteria of some posts on this thread :-(

I completely agree :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 04:39:51 PM
We could never in our wildest dreams imagined the amount of support given by local people today at out outside petition stall.   Not only had we gained well over a 1,000 signatures, I left at 3pm and people were still lining up to sign, we have had offers of help from legal people, a barrister,  manufactures, media and more importantly THE COMMUNITY !!   The local paper was there and we have a fantastic photo which will be hitting the papers next week all in all it was a fantastic day.   If anyone wants to volunteer to man the stall next sat please contact the Action Line or  send a personal email to myself or Admin because even with 10 people manning the stall we were struggling to attend to the crowds,  we will be out and about for the next three Saturdays and just to let you know that something BIG !! is happening on Sat 20Th Aug , so all of you who have left details will be contacted .   TEAM MARPLE !!!    WHAT A TEAM !!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 05:20:23 PM
Hi Alstan I am one of the founders of MIA and I take full responsibility for the fly posting   The police can easily contact me via the hot line which  would probably give us more publicity.  
 MARPLE IN ACTION have always encouraged people if they so wish to start their own group in favour of the proposed supermarket.  Please feel free to contact me via the hot line, the staff will take your details and I will return your call.    I will be happy to inform you personally about the meetings I have had with interested parties re this matter and that will give you information to make a decision based on an informed choice.  MM
.
We will be meeting with our MP next week so more information will be provided
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 06:17:41 PM
Alstan we have now been informed again via a very reliable source from inside the college that its ASDA a very American company.   I did in fact get through to their land buyers and land surveyors on Thursday.  I don't know who was more surprised me or them.  I asked them to confirm or deny that they are purchasing or have an interest in the site and the official stated that it was too early At this stage to pass comment ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: cheryl67lib on August 06, 2011, 07:54:29 PM
I have also heard this about the swimming pool, which is old and very much in need of updating...but putting in a roundabout is just plain stupid. As for the post about libraries, we provide a valuble service to the public, not everyone can afford to buy books/dvds or has access to the internet. Also speaking as a library assistant (not Marple) ie those of us who run this service, we are fairly poorly paid for what we do and some of us have been replaced with self service points in recent months  :( >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 06, 2011, 10:27:22 PM
Some good points raised there by alstan but I'd like to comment on a couple of them.

...Comparisons have been made between the potential site on Hibbert Lane and Tesco’s Portwood store but it seems ridiculous to suggest that they would consider a “superstore” in a suburb (aka”village”) of this size. They would be far more likely to build a more modest store and retain the ability to extend it if, and when, its value to local people has been established .Reference has been made to the rather industrial architecture of Tesco Glossop and Whalley Bridge. Again that is unthinkable and I am sure that any supermarket that might win the day would adopt a faux rural design to please the villagers.

Many on the forum have no experience on what type of superstore would be considered viable, or what design would be adopted.  I'm not entirely sure that a "faux rural" design would necessarily please Marple folk though.  But regarding whether ridiculous to suggest it being a superstore, we do know that the overall site footprints of Hibbert Lane and Portwood are comparable.

Quote
While on the subject of Tesco, we should bear in mind that, over the past 30 years, they have been one of the most successful of British companies and most of the people in this country will have benefited from their enterprise in some way. They have been a  significant constituent of most pension funds and one of the few consistent contributors to those funds. They employ almost half a million people. They contribute a proportion of their pre tax profit to charity.

While some corporate philanthropy is certainly a good thing, do remember that they stand accused by the Guardian of failing to pay £1 billion of corporation tax (http://web.archive.org/web/20080401162801/http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/27/tesco.supermarkets1) by weaving a complex web of offshore holding/parent companies and complex loan arrangements.  Daresay that a fair portion of that money would have gone to colleges such as CAMSFC !  And on the employment issue, there are many independent studies (http://www.newrules.org/retail/key-studies-walmart-and-bigbox-retail#2) which suggest these "big box" supermarkets actually reduce employment numbers.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Franz on August 07, 2011, 01:25:51 PM
Thank you JMC, Dave, Pink Panther and sgq for you comments. I don’t think the opening of a supermarket in Marple will have a huge impact on existing food retailers as the bulk of Marple’s food is already purchased outside the area and those who support the specialist local retailers, be it because they wish to support local shops, or pay a premium for personal service, or seek a quality or products not usually available elsewhere, are almost certain to continue to do so. The more specialist retailers might be more vulnerable when, and if, the supermarket moved into non food product ranges.
 Having said that, Altricham has a Tesco a similar distance from the town centre; it opened some years ago but has just reopened following expansion. Despite its proximity to the town, or, perhaps, because of it, Altrincham town centre appears to prosper.
As far as the Hanbury’s site is concerned I had assumed that the reason the Co-op bought it was to reduce the risk of a Sainsbury Local or Tesco Express opening in Marple.
With regard to the potential size of any development, Handforth Dean and Portwood, the site with which Hibbert Lane is often compared, are Tesco Extras. The term “supermarket” seems to be no longer used by Tesco and their outlets at Glossop and Whaley Bridge are “Tesco Superstores”. I don’t think there is any chance of a store the size of an “Extra” being even contemplated in Marple, whatever the size of the site. It would be commercially insane and would fail the planning requirements on several grounds. I suspect that, exactly as happened in Glossop and Whaley Bridge, a modest superstore would come first with limited expansion when, and if, the need became clear. OK the faux rural architecture adopted by supermarkets is a bit twee but is still preferable to the slabs at Glossop and Whaley Bridge
I completely agree with sgks that the non payment of corporation tax is wrong. I assume, however, that what Tesco has done is completely lawful and is for the benefit of shareholders (including our pension funds). In that case the fault lies not with Tesco but with the law which should be changed.
I have followed the link to “many independent studies” and would make two comments.
Firstly, all the research quoted relates to the USA and Wal-Mart in particular. Different considerations may arise in this country and I wonder if you are aware of any similar research in the UK?
Secondly I cannot see that in any case is the source of funding stated and am not, therefore, clear as to why it is necessarily independent research.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 07, 2011, 02:15:38 PM
There have been two lots of bids

Tesco came first  ASDA second in the first bid
ASDA came first  Tesco second  in a second bid

Now I don't profess to be knowledgeable in this kind of thing and our insiders in the college believe it or not is worse than me, hard to believe I know  :-\.  But to me a lay person in things concerning any type of Business  dealings, I think it means that Tesco came first on the bid because it had planning ? But Asda came first on the second round because the second round was without planning ?
Please do not shoot the messenger, as you can imagine we are asking a lot from people to drip feed us information from inside the college and their jobs are at risk so information just comes out in bits and bobs and the people providing the information can not and are not expected to understand some of the information the provide us  Maybe someone out there understands the two bid system and can explain this new piece of information  ???  
Well at least I was able to pass this information on to ASDA first hand  on Thursday when I spoke to their head office.  :D

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: RWW on August 08, 2011, 06:29:24 PM
My brother witnessed windows being replaced at the Hibbert Lane campus today. Expensive looking job apparently.
Doesn't sound like pre-demolition work
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 08, 2011, 06:35:45 PM
The leaflet that went out with the Civic Review is informing the community who do not have use of the Internet.  The Action Line has had 25 calls in 3 hrs mainly from residents who had heard a rumour but nothing else.  The leaflet that explains the current situation is now getting a response, people who have taken calls today on the Action Line from concerned residents have, as well as giving up to date information, have informed  the callers  about the Protest March on 20th August at 2pm.   

PLEASE INFORM AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN BECAUSE WE WILL BE JUDGED BY THE ATTENDANCE

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 11:59:20 AM
MARPLE IN ACTION are having a meeting this afternoon with Andrew Stunnall MP.  The outcome of that meeting will be posted later today on the Forum.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 09, 2011, 06:00:05 PM
I have received a letter in response to my own from Andrew Stunnell-he has set up his own campaign - Get the College to Think Again - and has suggests we all join his campaign-I have a form to complete and return to him but will imagine he has an online petition on his web page.  Not had the chance to check yet but will do so-at least he is supporting our opposition to a large supermarket!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 09, 2011, 06:47:46 PM
I have received a letter in response to my own from Andrew Stunnell-he has set up his own campaign - Get the College to Think Again - and has suggests we all join his campaign-I have a form to complete and return to him but will imagine he has an online petition on his web page.  Not had the chance to check yet but will do so-at least he is supporting our opposition to a large supermarket!
Thats both good and bad news,
Good news is that he is supporting us, bad news is that he wants us all to jump on his band wagon, which, lets face it, is going to polictically motivated. If he wants to get involved then great! but he should join MAR, not the other way round!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 08:03:33 PM
The MIA Action Line has been busy today and it appears that lots of residents are organising their own  residents meetings and using it to inform neighbours who do not have Internet use, of all the up to date information and of  the rally on 20th Aug at 2 pm starting in the precinct.   The  press will be there once again to cover the event and we are trying to get the local TV news interested, so do come along, and show all that need to know that MARPLE SAYS NO TO A SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE!  Also don't forget MIA are out and about again every Sat in Aug collecting signatures to add to the Hundreds we already  have.   The messages and offers  of Support have been fantastic but we have a long way to go. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 08:12:43 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA secretary  will put them on the forum. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 09, 2011, 08:15:10 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA secretary  will put them on the forum. 
           all ready on the forum .from Marple civic society .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 08:24:29 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA Secretary will put them on the forum.  
         all ready on the forum .from Marple civic society .
Hi Amazon this was a different meeting, there have been three different meetings today. MBF and the Civic Society are all members of MIA and we are all working and attending meetings on different things and then we share information at a larger meeting.  There are lots of things going on that requires different people to attend different things but we are working well as a team and by working together we are stronger MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 09, 2011, 08:45:46 PM
I have received a letter in response to my own from Andrew Stunnell-he has set up his own campaign - Get the College to Think Again - and has suggests we all join his campaign-I have a form to complete and return to him but will imagine he has an online petition on his web page.  Not had the chance to check yet but will do so-at least he is supporting our opposition to a large supermarket!

Here's a copy of the letter from Andrew Stunell received by people who have written to him.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on August 09, 2011, 08:50:57 PM
blimey, Andrew Stunnell's quick off the mark on this one, took him 3 months to reply to my letter to him about university tuition fees.  Does he feel the need to try to curry favour with local voters before the next election?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 10, 2011, 12:53:34 PM
MARPLE IN ACTION have now organised Into teams

Legal team
Lobbyist team
Tec team
Communication team
Research team
Data team
Leaftet distribution team
Fund raising team
Market research team

We have groups of people working in all these teams but are still looking for anyone who thinks they can help in any of these areas.  Each team has a nominated team leader so please if you can help in anyway
contact the action line, admin, or the MARPLE In ACTION web site and you will be put in touch with the team you feel you could assist.   OCT IS FAST APPROCHING WE NEED TO ACT NOW !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Sixth Form College on August 10, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA secretary  will put them on the forum. 
           all ready on the forum .from Marple civic society .

Can anyone link me to these minutes? And are minutes available for the other meetings?
Thanks
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 10, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
MARPLE IN ACTION has just obtained the deeds for  MARPLE Swimming Baths which we will post on the web site.  The baths were a gift to the people of MARPLE and given mainly for the use of our children by Mrs Macnair !   Thank you Mrs Macnair  ;D

The link (Admin) http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/marple_swimming_baths#incoming-200957
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2011, 08:26:26 AM
So our MP is trying to 'Get the College to Think Again'. Unless he knows another way for the college to raise the capital it needs, that means he is campaigning against improving the educational facilities of his constituents, which is an astonishing thing for an MP to do!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Franz on August 13, 2011, 10:37:40 AM

I agree Dave. Shows what the priority of the Lib Dems is when it comes to a choice between education and jumping on a band waggon which might produce a few smiley photo opportunities. Why doesn't he wait for the public consultation on any plans that are actually put forward like most Marple people
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 13, 2011, 05:24:31 PM
What another fantastic day we have had today collecting signatures.   We have gained over a thousand again today and that's not counting the ones in the shops or the ones being collected door to door.  The opposition to this ridicules proposal is huge and growing as more and more people gather information, which they have been doing independently now by speaking to collage staff who are now openly saying what they had been told by CAMSFC.   Lots of interest in the March next week with people from surrounding areas phoning for information.   We also think that we may have a lead on the red car that has been used by the two people taking down the posters as a resident was able to get the car registration number and reported it to the police.   
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU TO THE  RESIDENTS OF MARPLE WHO CAME OUT TO SIGN TODAY YOU DID MARPLE PROUD.
          NEXT SATURDAYS MARCH WILL BE THE DAY WHEN THE COLLAGE AND ALL OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES SEE THAT A SUPERMARKET ON THE HIBBERT LANE SITE IS NOT WANTED AND NOT HAPPENING
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 13, 2011, 09:45:56 PM
MARPLE IN ACTION have now organised Into teams

Legal team
Lobbyist team
Tec team
Communication team
Research team
Data team
Leaftet distribution team
Fund raising team
Market research team

We have groups of people working in all these teams but are still looking for anyone who thinks they can help in any of these areas.  Each team has a nominated team leader so please if you can help in anyway
contact the action line, admin, or the MARPLE In ACTION web site and you will be put in touch with the team you feel you could assist.   OCT IS FAST APPROCHING WE NEED TO ACT NOW !


Finally! Sorry if it seems like i'm trying to be rude here, but the way things were going before The MAR was organised into teams i was becoming concerned.
Also, Have any of the things MAR has put in place been suggested by other people? So for example did someone suggest the team idea? If so I feel that it would only be right to have a seperate post that is sticked that mention the forum name of however suggested the ideas, so as to give them credit, and to let the general public know that you are listening to them and taking there ideas onboard, and not just throwing them into the bin :/
For example, I suggested ideas that are very similar to what has been implemented so far on this thread : http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3663.0 including the march AND the banner.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 13, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
Apologises for the double post, but further to the teams, I would add a Central command team, which all the "team leaders" are part of, along with the Senior management. This team would call the shots, and be responsible for assigning tasks to each "team". the leader of the "team" would then take the task which his/her team had been assigned, then split it up into sub tasks if it was a large scale tasking, or multistage (so for example, if CCOM-D wanted 500 leaflets printing, they would task the publication team with making the leaflets. The publication team leader would receive this order, he/she would then assign each team member with a specific number of leaflets to be printed. he/she would also lease with CCOM and the distribution team as to when the batch of leaflets would be ready, and were they would be delivered to when ready for distribution)
If you wish for me to explain further please feel free to shoot me a PM :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 13, 2011, 10:33:06 PM
What another fantastic day we have had today collecting signatures.   We have gained over a thousand again today and that's not counting the ones in the shops or the ones being collected door to door.  The opposition to this ridicules proposal is huge and growing as more and more people gather information, which they have been doing independently now by speaking to collage staff who are now openly saying what they had been told by CAMSFC.   Lots of interest in the March next week with people from surrounding areas phoning for information.   We also think that we may have a lead on the red car that has been used by the two people taking down the posters as a resident was able to get the car registration number and reported it to the police.    
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU TO THE  RESIDENTS OF MARPLE WHO CAME OUT TO SIGN TODAY YOU DID MARPLE PROUD.
          NEXT SATURDAYS MARCH WILL BE THE DAY WHEN THE COLLAGE AND ALL OTHER INTERESTED







PARTIES SEE THAT A SUPERMARKET ON THE HIBBERT LANE SITE IS NOT WANTED AND NOT HAPPENING


Forgot to say that T shirts are now on sale at £5.00 each. All profit to go MIA fund raising campaign
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 14, 2011, 12:01:10 AM
Forgot to say that T shirts are now on sale at £5.00 each. All profit to go MIA fund raising campaign
Can I suggest a change on the T-shirt design? insted of having the logo on the front i'd move it to the back, and have a small logo on the left breast at the front.
Also, i'd make a seperate design for MAR personnel, which has the logo on the back, along with "STAFF", and there name on the left breast.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 14, 2011, 12:26:14 AM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on August 14, 2011, 05:15:41 AM
The MIA campaign is amazing! The sheer number of people and the organisation involved is a testimony to the strength of our community here in Marple. I for one would like to say a huge big THANKYOU to everyone who is committing so much of their time and energy to saving our community. A job being brilliantly done!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 14, 2011, 12:11:16 PM
Thanks for that Moonforest.It's great the public support that's being shown.We are all in it together!Must go now to do some printing under the guidance of the team leader ::)they show us how to press print on the copier.  ::) I will show my work to the team leaders leader who may have to run it past the quality control leader ;)Then finally on to the central command team,hope I can find him/her,they may not be wearing easy recognisable clothing!Oh well!! perhaps I will make a non executive decision,by- pass the lot of them,and take them to our cars for delivery. ;D Hope I am not treading on any ones toes :P.Must dash,busy,busy.Hope to see lots at the March on Saturday.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 14, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Its a suggestion! Its there to be thought about, and considered by MIA, not thrown in the bin!!
Please, I understand that the people in MIA are volunteers, but you do have a pecking order (team members, team leaders).
The reason why i suggested that people be given credit for there ideas is that it would show the community that MIA are listening to there ideas, not simply taking them for there own.

I ask that you do not to mock me, or make fun of my suggestions, as that A. gets nowere B. results in the battle being lost and C. is damn well out of order. D. If you act like this for every idea thats suggested sooner or later people are going to stop suggesting them, and as i'm quite sure that you are aware, A campagin without ideas is like a boat out of water, it just doesn't work.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 14, 2011, 03:28:29 PM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Its a suggestion! Its there to be thought about, and considered by MIA, not thrown in the bin!!
Please, I understand that the people in MIA are volunteers, but you do have a pecking order (team members, team leaders).
The reason why i suggested that people be given credit for there ideas is that it would show the community that MIA are listening to there ideas, not simply taking them for there own.

I ask that you do not to mock me, or make fun of my suggestions, as that A. gets nowere B. results in the battle being lost and C. is damn well out of order. D. If you act like this for every idea thats suggested sooner or later people are going to stop suggesting them, and as I'm quite sure that you are aware, A campagin with ideas is like a boat out of water, it just doesn't work.

To clarify for you Smithy, the group were already pursuing the suggestions that you made (t-shirts aside) some time ago before you made them. Perhaps it would have been more polite to say thanks, but we've already thought of that. However, nobody did, me included, so please accept my apologies for that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 14, 2011, 03:34:56 PM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Its a suggestion! Its there to be thought about, and considered by MIA, not thrown in the bin!!
Please, I understand that the people in MIA are volunteers, but you do have a pecking order (team members, team leaders).
The reason why i suggested that people be given credit for there ideas is that it would show the community that MIA are listening to there ideas, not simply taking them for there own.

I ask that you do not to mock me, or make fun of my suggestions, as that A. gets nowere B. results in the battle being lost and C. is damn well out of order. D. If you act like this for every idea thats suggested sooner or later people are going to stop suggesting them, and as I'm quite sure that you are aware, A campagin with ideas is like a boat out of water, it just doesn't work.

To clarify for you Smithy, the group were already pursuing the suggestions that you made (t-shirts aside) some time ago before you made them. Perhaps it would have been more polite to say thanks, but we've already thought of that. However, nobody did, me included, so please accept my apologies for that.
Thankyou for that admin, I must apologise for my "grumpyness" aswell.
Now that thats out of the way, We have a total of 32  RSVP'd to attend the march event on facebook, and a further 18 as maybes. There are also 222 people awaiting a reply. not sure if those numbers are any use to anyone, but they do show that this march could potentually have more than 300 people participating, which, as i'm sure you will all aggree, is a huge number!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 14, 2011, 04:26:21 PM
Smithy you are doing a really good job and your ideas are of course looked at.  I have always maintained that MIA is not about a small group of people its about everyone.  You will see as this campaign develops that more and more people will be asked to participate, which I hope you will agree to be one of them.  It is such early days and we know that this is just the start.  It's fantastic that you are inviting people to the March thank you !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: equinox on August 15, 2011, 10:11:28 AM
Duplicate post overwritten. Please post messages only once. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Franz on August 15, 2011, 03:00:37 PM
I would be amazed if there are only 300. Where are the other 23,000?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 15, 2011, 03:17:19 PM
Thats just from one organised group !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 15, 2011, 08:31:47 PM
MARPLE in Action is not affiliated to any political party   MIA was formed as a voice for our community  Whilst I am pleased that our elected members have decided to back the campaign to  get the college to re think    MIA Remains independent and will continue in the attempt to stop this ridiculus proposal by the college
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 16, 2011, 03:03:26 PM
Latest FOI Response:

Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 16, 2011, 05:51:46 PM
Miss Marple you've learned to cut and paste  ;D

Shame about the censorship (perhaps Neil can ask for a review of his FOI) but there is an interesting reference to Chadwick Street - presumably as a viable alternative supermarket site? I'm only guessing but the council seem to be saying that would be more "deliverable" than one on the Hibbert Lane site?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 16, 2011, 06:37:08 PM
Oh no !  I see this very differently if we look at the sequence of dates

8th July letter FOI  talks with planners lots blacked out
12 July Stephen Downs attends a governors meeting and resigns because the Principleship and the Governors are still determined to pursue selling the land to a major supermarket chain ? Even after the talks with planning, but there again we can not really see what's been said on the FOI letter
27th July Area committee meeting Stephen Lawrence and Councillors present and say that they know nothing ? And that the rumours about a supermarket is speculation ?
29th July is mentioned in the FOI letter where Lawrence says he might struggle to attend that meeting?  So what is that all important meeting that they are all having on the 29th ?
And finally what does the FOI letter mean that discussions regarding the Localism Bill may prove difficult to manage   DIFFICULT FOR WHO ?
and last but not least  Building a Tesco or ASDA somewhere Else would not fund the college plans because we must remember that there are two supermarkets fighting for the land TESCO AND ASDA
Call me suspicious I THINK WE ALL NEED TO BE ?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 16, 2011, 08:18:23 PM
I have just watched the Area Committee Meeting on the 27th July on the link on the web.  Makes very interesting watching if you then read the FOI which I have just put on .  Oh what a tangled web we weave  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 16, 2011, 10:09:10 PM
Latest FOI Response:
Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).

Here's a pic of the letter, for anyone without a PDF viewer.  Click on it for a larger view.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 17, 2011, 02:06:07 PM
There is rather a lot blacked out on this letter so a new FOI has been requested as only the supermarkets names should be blacked out (commercial sensitivity) and not what the main aim of the meeting was about.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 17, 2011, 09:19:24 PM
There is rather a lot blacked out on this letter so a new FOI has been requested as only the supermarkets names should be blacked out (commercial sensitivity) and not what the main aim of the meeting was about.
          Interesting article in the mail today re asda supermarkets page 58 .will quote some .smaller formats as become the new battle ground for britains big four the rush to downsize has been promted by britains arcate planning laws as firms strugle to get planning permision to build large stores .asda is playing catch up along with
rival morisons which last month unveiled its first m convenience store in ikley west yorkshire .. this is just part of the article in the mail .
                               so if who ever if .gets permission it may not be massive . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 17, 2011, 10:45:00 PM
          Interesting article in the mail today...[snip]

Here's a link to said article, CITY FOCUS: Supermarket giant Asda downsizes onto the High Street (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-2026734/CITY-FOCUS-Supermarket-giant-Asda-downsizes-High-Street.html). 

First time I've seen a story in the Daily Fail that doesn't feature a newly identified cancer risk, a threat to house prices, Princess Di, or immigration paranoia.  Good spot.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 08:54:50 AM
What's been a real eye opener when doing the Sat stall in the precinct is the amount of shoppers who have travelled from Hyde, Ashton, Stalybridge and other areas where the big four have moved in.   What they are saying is that they now no longer have the choice to go to their local butcher,baker newsagent or veg shop, they have all gone and that they now have to travel to enjoy the shopping experience that they once had on their doorstep    I suspect that we have been very spoilt having lots of small local traders in Marple and its that famous saying that "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE GOT TILL ITS GONE " that must be paramount in our minds in our  battle against these supermarket giants.    
ROLL ON SATURDAY !!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 18, 2011, 02:24:31 PM
          Interesting article in the mail today...[snip]

Here's a link to said article, CITY FOCUS: Supermarket giant Asda downsizes onto the High Street (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-2026734/CITY-FOCUS-Supermarket-giant-Asda-downsizes-High-Street.html). 

First time I've seen a story in the Daily Fail that doesn't feature a newly identified cancer risk, a threat to house prices, Princess Di, or immigration paranoia.  Good spot.


           Thanks for posting tried to scan them copy paste . couldnt do 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 09:48:43 PM
OH DEAR !!  This makes interesting reading

MEETINGS FROM FOI

MEETING HELD ON
 
18th Jan   PRESENT PAUL LAWRENCE , CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT

14th MARCH   PRESENT EAMON BOYLAN (STOCKPORT MBC CHIEF EXECUTIVE ) PAUL LAWRANCE, CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT

6th MAY    PRESENT    PAUL LAWRENCE , EMMA CURLE ? IAN HARRISON ? NICK WHELAN ? IAN KEYTE ? ANDREW HUBERT  AND  TURNER  ( could this be a planner from Turner Townsend Walsinghan Planning )

22nd JUNE  CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT AND PAUL LAWRENCE

27th JUNE   CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT, COUNCILLOR CHANDLER , COUNCILLOR BISPHAM, COUNCILLOR ALEXANDER AND COUNCILLOR DOWLING

WATCH THE LINK AGAIN OF THE AREA COMMITTEE MEETING ON 27th JULY WHEN ALL OUR COUNCILLORS STOOD ON THERE LOOKING LIKE BUTTER WOUDN'T MELT AND REMEMBER PAUL LAWRENCE SAYING THEY HAD NOT BEEN IN TALKS WITH ANY SUPERMARKET PLANNERS, WELL IF I FIND OUT THAT TURNER WAS FROM THE SUPERMARKET PLANNERS ME LAWRENCE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE 350 PEOPLE HE SPOKE TO THAT NIGHT IN THE
PARK.
WELL I KNOW WHAT I WILL BE DOING TOMORROW AND THAT WILL BE CONTACTING OR ELECTED MEMBERS TO ASK WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH MS CASSIDY ON 27th JUNE 
THERE IS ANOTHER AREA COMMITTEE MEETING SOON SO IF WE HAVE NOT GOT THE ANSWERS BY THEN I SUGGEST OUR ELACTED MEMBERS HAD BETTER BOOK A LARGER PARK !!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 10:08:09 PM
OH SILLY ME !

The question I asked which provided all these dates was

I am requesting to know the dates of meetings held with CAMSFC and SMBC with regard to the proposed selling of the land on HIBBERT Lane and the names of anyone from SMBC and names of elected members who attended the meetings

WELL WELL WELL THIS TANGLED WEB IS GETTING MORE TANGLED AND TAINTED BY THE DAY ! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 18, 2011, 11:04:59 PM
OH DEAR !!  This makes interesting reading
[snip]

The list of meetings and attendees is on the FOI site here (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/camsfc#outgoing-146891).

Here's the meeting list from there, but in chronological order and with organisations/job titles added.

18th Jan @ 11.00           
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)
Christina Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)

14th March @ 12.00
Eamonn Boylan Stockport Council Chief Executive (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/councildemocracy/yourcouncil/councildirectorates/corporateleadershipteam)
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)
Christina Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)

6th May @ 11.00           
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)
Emma Curle Stockport Council Development Team Leader (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningbuildingplanningpolicy/developmentmanagement/planningprocesses/contactus)
Ian Harrison Stockport Council Regeneration Manager (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/business/regeneration/tcandmajordev/reganddevcontacts)
Nick Whelan Stockport Council Highways Planning (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=69642)
Ian Keyte Stockport Council Planning Officer (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=138&MId=322)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)
Turner & Townsend Retail planning consultancy company (http://www.turnerandtownsend.com/retail.html)

22nd June at 9.00           
Christina Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)

27th June @ 10.45           
C Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)
Cllrs Candler, Alexander, Bispham and Dowling
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 11:07:59 PM
OH MY GOD ! 

Thanks for doing the research SGK  it's worse than I imagined . 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 11:16:07 PM
OH MY GOD ! 

Thanks for doing the research SGK  it's worse than I imagined . 



So  Paul Lawrence  HAD been in talks with supermarket planners a month before he addressed the 350 MARPLE residents in the Park when he said that he can assure us that no talks had taken place with supermarket planners.   SO WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH IN ALL THIS ?  If anyone every doubted what MARPLE IN ACTION has been informing you about don't as it would appear that the very people we pay to speak on our behalf are doing completely the opposite. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 11:43:45 PM
Can someone who is very very clever put the link to the area committee meeting under the list of meetings held at CAMSFC with the planners councillors and Paul Lawrence  and let's see who can spot those all important untruths.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 19, 2011, 12:46:26 AM
Whoa whoa whoa, Lets slow to half ahead for a second here.
From what the concil said at the last park meeting they have had "no meetings with the college". So, if you've not had any meetings with the college, was ian just there for the free tea and biscuits on the 6th? Somehow i doubt it.
I also understand that we need to nitpick, but remember not to get carried away and slam into top speed, as that's going to end up in disaster, approach it slow and steady.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 19, 2011, 08:21:11 AM
To be honest here, I can't see any disparity between the meetings listed and what we were told at the meeting in the park.

Paul Lawrence of the council's planning department made it clear that there had been meetings with the college, and that he'd made it perfectly clear to the college that a supermarket at the site was not in their core strategy and therefore council would not approve such a development.  That said, many people I've spoken to seem to suspect the council could get overruled or be steam-rollered by the supermarket's extensive legal/planning teams.

Maybe my memory is going a bit, so if I've mis-remembered please do point out.  Perhaps someone could post the offending sentences spoken at that park meeting, in that case, alongside the meeting dates etc?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 19, 2011, 08:31:13 AM
Researching the people with question marks on the FOI post

Ian Keyte - google gives the following:

http://www.nps.co.uk/whatwedo/25/compulsorypurchase/

That seems to fit the bill

Emma Curle - Stockport MBC Planning:

http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningbuildingplanningpolicy/developmentmanagement/planningprocesses/contactus

There is a Nick Whelan who is involved with the Transport department ( Highways? ) at Stockport MBC


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 19, 2011, 08:38:30 AM
Finally

Ian Harrison

Ian Harrison. Regeneration Manager at Stockport Council
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 19, 2011, 09:01:00 AM
From my recollection of what was said, Paul Lawrence stated that there had been no formal planning meetings between the Council & the College. It was not until David Hoyle got on the stand that they admitted that they had pre-planning meetings with the college (pre planning meetings are usually deemed to be in confidence) so Paul Lawrence acted quite correctly in not mentioning them at the meeting until after the college released the information.

What is not acceptable is that if any of the 4 COUNCILLORS (our elected representatives) who attended the meeting on 27th June then entered correspondence with local people stating that they had no knowledge of any plans for a Supermarket.

IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN THEY SHOULD RESIGN

Has anyone any proof?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 19, 2011, 09:15:46 AM
Alot of pre planning meetings there!! Even I'm shocked! How can all those meetings be justified?  Clearly the councillors did know about it.. BUT its got to have gone quite far and to be maybe on the lines of being agreed to get councillors involved?  Pre planning meetings are just that.. nothing to do with councillors surely.. especially if they are to be on the eventual planning committee that decides if it has the go ahead?  Wonder when the decision to send it to the main planning committee was made?.. maybe the fact they realised this info would come out was the deciding factor!!

Its frightening how many people from the council have been involved too.. clearly big discussions going on about roads etc... this is not Pre planning... this is making sure what ever they come up with is acceptable to planning department and any other department that the development effects prior to any planning decision.. making it difficult for the council to 1 say no.. and 2 if they do these meetings will be dragged up in any planning inquiry!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 19, 2011, 09:27:20 AM
Alot of pre planning meetings there!! Even I'm shocked! How can all those meetings be justified?  Clearly the councillors did know about it..[snip]

It's quite odd looking back at earlier communications, such as the somewhat condescending one from Councillor Bispham on 10th June (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg15338#msg15338), where he dismissed the very idea of a supermarket on college land as mere rumour, comparing it to crazy conspiracy theories like GM crops on Awkwright Road and nuclear waste being dumped at Chadkirk Mill.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 19, 2011, 09:31:34 AM
Paul Lawrence stated that he had no talks with supermarket planners from CAMCFC Yet it clearly shows that he has
Councillors denied any knowledge of a supermarket and I have got letters and emails from most of them stating that including one of Andrew Stunell
This is about what people are not saying, could you imagine the outcry in the park that night if  we had been informed by Paul Lawrence   that Stockports Chief Executive ,SMBC planning , SMBC Highways dept , CAMSFC Supermarket Planners , SMBC regeneration officers  and 4 elected members had been in talks at some point within the past 6months with Ms Cassidy and Andrew Hubert regarding the sale of the HIBBERT Lane site
What deals , alternatives are being suggested, planned or rubber stamped without due consultation with the community and why is Paul Lawrence saying that he thinks if the college move the sports facilities to Buxton Lane the covenants would be overcome on HIBBERT Lane.  No they should not be, the plots of land were given by two different MARPLE Families, and the family who donated the HIBBERT Lane Sight gave it for the education of Local People  so why are alternatives being even looked at and what are SMBC highways in on the meeting for ? I hope it's not looking at moving road, and putting roundabouts in ?  I think we need all these people round our table for a change, too many secret meetings for something that's not going to happen, don't you think
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 19, 2011, 09:58:49 AM
Lisa is right to point out that pre-planning meetings do not involve councillors. However, she then goes on to write 'discussions going on about roads etc... this is not Pre planning... this is making sure what ever they come up with is acceptable to planning department and any other department that the development effects prior to any planning decision..'

On the contrary, that IS what pre-planning meetings are about. Submitting a planning application for a major development is a complex (and costly) business, and potential applicants invariably seek guidance from planning officers in advance as to what is likely to be acceptable - they'd be crazy not to!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 19, 2011, 05:50:04 PM
So all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC about planning, why was the Chief Executive of the entire council there ?  All sounds mighty fishy to me
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 19, 2011, 06:33:34 PM
From my recollection of what was said, Paul Lawrence stated that there had been no formal planning meetings between the Council & the College. It was not until David Hoyle got on the stand that they admitted that they had pre-planning meetings with the college (pre planning meetings are usually deemed to be in confidence) so Paul Lawrence acted quite correctly in not mentioning them at the meeting until after the college released the information.

What is not acceptable is that if any of the 4 COUNCILLORS (our elected representatives) who attended the meeting on 27th June then entered correspondence with local people stating that they had no knowledge of any plans for a Supermarket.

IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN THEY SHOULD RESIG


Has anyone any proof?
Yes I have one off Paul Lawrence,   Councillor Bispham   Councillor Dowling   Councillor.Sue  Ingham   Councillor Chandler   Oh yes nearly forgot,  Andrew Stunell MP
DID SOMEONE JUST SHOUT BINGO ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 19, 2011, 06:50:23 PM
This is all rather confusing! This may be because of different meanings of the word 'plans'. I was at the famous 'party in the park', and heard Mr Lawrence state clearly that he had met management staff from camsfc, and advised them that a major retail development on the Hibbert Lane site would not comply with the council's core strategy. That is not a planning meeting, or a pre-planning meeting, or a 'meeting with supermarket planners'. Those meetings would come at a later stage, if and when a formal planning application is being prepared.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 19, 2011, 07:06:12 PM
This is all rather confusing! This may be because of different meanings of the word 'plans'. I was at the famous 'party in the park', and heard Mr Lawrence state clearly that he had met management staff from camsfc, and advised them that a major retail development on the Hibbert Lane site would not comply with the council's core strategy. That is not a planning meeting, or a pre-planning meeting, or a 'meeting with supermarket planners'. Those meetings would come at a later stage, if and when a formal planning application is being prepared.

Not necessarily Dave. I do quite a lot of pre-planning meetings with Council officers in the North West, simply to sound them out regarding different sites and the potential response of different Council departments to the principle of a planning application. Officers are, after all, the local 'experts'. The fact that officers attend such meetings and give out such advice should not be seen as anything other than good practice - it certainly does not mean that the Council are sympathetic to the cause.

Sometimes a developer will walk away from after initial pre-app consultation, if he feels that he will have a massive battle on his hands and that the Council is hard against him. Sometimes they will take a risk. Thats how planning works.

I really think that people should be careful about laying into the Council and Councillors over this. They have made the principles of their planning position very clear.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 20, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Thanks belly - I take your point. I also strongly agree that the crusaders of MIA would be well advsied to moderate ther attacks on councillors and council officers. Staging what seems more and more like a vendetta against both the college and the council may not be the most effective way of winning hearts and minds!

As for Miss M's point that ' all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC', I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 20, 2011, 08:17:19 AM

As for Miss M's point that ' all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC', I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 

I agree.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 20, 2011, 11:02:58 AM
Thanks belly - I take your point. I also strongly agree that the crusaders of MIA would be well advsied to moderate ther attacks on councillors and council officers. Staging what seems more and more like a vendetta against both the college and the council may not be the most effective way of winning hearts and minds!

As for Miss M's point that ' all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC', I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 
Oh you can be cutting with me at times, but like I alway say WE ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS OUR OPPOSITION so thanks for you comments  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 20, 2011, 11:56:48 AM
I think the FOI requests are in fact very useful.. I prefer the little that is spent on them in comparison to the huge wages and expenses many council officials and councillors claim.. however that no doubt is another discussion :)

"consultation".. "guidance from council officials".... all to be used later " but we jumped through hoops"  I'm sure Belly you have had these sorts of meetings but have you ever gone back again and again and again and again?  I do know these meetings can and wll be used in any future planning appeal..


And no I don't see any reason why they should be discussing road changes and all other stuff beyond mr Lawrence meeting with them to say..actually no we wont accept any supermarket developments as its contrary to stockport planning guidance! so yes.. relatively happy to see him meeting many times with them to say no no no no no... but no reason for anyone else after they've said we wont accept...  and ESPECIALLY NOT the councillors
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 20, 2011, 12:01:11 PM
Well said Lisa,and don't forget Ian Keyte the compulsory purchase guy :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 20, 2011, 12:02:32 PM
...I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 

If there's another way to have frank, open and honest discussion over this development, I'd happily take it.  Have tried meetings, tried emails, tried open forums and tried reading published minutes but the FOI route remains the one which returns the most information.

The development could impact people's livelihoods, their families, their quality of life.  In no way do I believe any of the FOIs I've submitted are trivial and pointless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 20, 2011, 12:07:46 PM
All valuable info' Neil, Thanks for your contributions!and if people wan't to see the money that is squandered by SMBC on cars and hotels etc they should look at past FOI questions and answers :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 20, 2011, 11:35:45 PM
This post contained copies of two emails sent by Christina Cassidy to her staff earlier this year on April 7 and then on May 9.

I received a request to remove them from Andrew Hubert of Cheadle and Marple College at 1.20pm today (28 July 2011). Andrew provided a copy of the CAMSFC Disclaimer that the he says accompanied the original emails when they were sent out to college staff, which I have pasted below:

CAMSFC DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is intended to be addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the College. If you have received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying or disclose of its contents to any other person is strictly prohibited, please notify the sender immediately, by responding to this message and then deleting it from your system. The College nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email.

I have sought advice regarding the legal position on this and have been advised to comply with the college's request. Admin.




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 20, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
Just a reminder of the two leaked emails that the college asked to be removed to date teachers, staff, parents or students do not know what is happening and the Principalship will not communicate with anyone in the college in case it leaks out.  We have received calls from two teachers at the college, several students and concerned parents wanting to know information as to what's happening to the college and how it will effect jobs and the students education  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 21, 2011, 07:07:32 AM
I guess the above is a very good illustration of why these FOI requests are a wate of everyone's time. The college has (very unwisely) tried to hush up its plans. Tut tut and all that - and seriously, I agree that a responsible body should not behave like that.

However, in the long run the way the college has (mis)handled the PR at this early stage of its project will not make a scrap of difference to the outcome. This scheme will be considered through 'due process': by the council and then (if turned down) through the appeals process.  MIA would be well advised to concentrate its efforts on submitting objections through these processes, and through political lobbying. Trivial information about who met who in the early stages will count for nothing.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 21, 2011, 10:29:23 AM
... MIA would be well advised to concentrate its efforts on submitting objections through these processes, and through political lobbying. Trivial information about who met who in the early stages will count for nothing.

As you saw yesterday there's considerable support, with very extensive resources, so all avenues are being pursued.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 21, 2011, 11:14:46 AM
Dave there would be no need for FOI requests if the college was not trying to hide information  :-\.  I am unsure if you managed to have sight of the emails before CAMSFC asked for them to be removed, if you did then I can not really understand your point about FOI requests. We are dealing with a college who has a legal duty of care to it's students and potential students not the secret service.
We were joined on the march yesterday by students from the college and students parents all concerned about what is happening and the effects on education, surely this can not be right?
When I had a meeting with Ms Cassidy and Andrew Hubert they made it very clear that this had been going on for nearly 2 years so your rational about awaiting due process, may not for the community against the supermarket being built on Hibbert lane be  the correct thing to do, because what we are trying to find out is, if the due process has already been done and we are just sat watching them tie up the loose ends. 
What we must always be mindful of is that this land was a gift to the people of MARPLE for education,the college is a private concern and the college still if their plans go ahead will be placing students in a somewhat hostile community.  Part of their mission statement is to work closely with the community and work to integrate within it  :-\. I think someone from CAMSFC needs to either re read or re write don't you  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on August 21, 2011, 08:41:19 PM
Some years ago, following the lead of other residents in our road, I joined in a protest about a new block of flats being built in our road. It also evoked an outcry at a local area committee, demands for information about who knew what and when, claims about depressing house prices, traffic etc. The council dutifully threw out the planning proposal and the developers subsequently won their appeal. I look at what was built and wonder why I campaigned against it - it doesn't look bad and has negligible impact on me or the local environment. I was stupid to jump on the bandwagon of opposing change for the sake of opposing change.

The same appears to be happening here. I note with some concern that some of the most vociferous opponents of a supermarket scheme are the same people who vigorously condemned the work on Dan Bank. Well, look at that now: it is a magnificent piece of civil engineering, looks tidy, is a lot safer and, with a bit of care of the trees, will be many times better than before.

People make a lot about CAMSFC's governors not living in Marple. Well, looking at the photographs of the march, quite a lot of the participants don't live anywhere close to Hibbert Lane either and aren't going to be remotely affected by this scheme.

Likewise, if you drive out of Marple to do a "big supermarket shop" you are taking both your traffic fumes and your spending power out of Marple, not helping either the environment or the local traders. If you demand that the college don't think just about money, then don't raise the issue of your house prices. If you complain about living in line of sight of a supermarket then just stand on the opposite side of Hibbert Lane and look at the college - it isn't the prettiest of buildings.

I am somewhat neutral about the local small shops - none of them are open when I come home from work and I am forced to spend money in the co-op ... or the co-op (yes, time that monopoly ended). On the other hand my children will shortly be going to the college every day, so I, like the governors and principal of CAMSFC, am concerned about their education and I really don't care whether the governors and principal live in Marple or not. Most of the wage-earners in Marple don't actually work in Marple - they commute outside.

Perhaps it is time for a new forum topic to start suggesting realistic alternative proposals for how Marple Sixth-Form College - and yes, it is MARPLE'S sixth form college - can raise the money they need for new build. I may (observing the poll) be in a minority in this forum who would like a new supermarket, but I don't think I am the only person in Marple in that position.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on August 21, 2011, 09:04:38 PM
I totally agree
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 21, 2011, 10:02:28 PM
Some years ago, following the lead of other residents in our road, I joined in a protest about a new block of flats being built in our road. It also evoked an outcry at a local area committee, demands for information about who knew what and when, claims about depressing house prices, traffic etc. The council dutifully threw out the planning proposal and the developers subsequently won their appeal. I look at what was built and wonder why I campaigned against it - it doesn't look bad and has negligible impact on me or the local environment. I was stupid to jump on the bandwagon of opposing change for the sake of opposing change.

The same appears to be happening here. I note with some concern that some of the most vociferous opponents of a supermarket scheme are the same people who vigorously condemned the work on Dan Bank. Well, look at that now: it is a magnificent piece of civil engineering, looks tidy, is a lot safer and, with a bit of care of the trees, will be many times better than before.

People make a lot about CAMSFC's governors not living in Marple. Well, looking at the photographs of the march, quite a lot of the participants don't live anywhere close to Hibbert Lane either and aren't going to be remotely affected by this scheme.

Wow Hollins, you seem to have missed the point. 

Just because you protested about a set of flats which turned out ok, or saw a protest about Dan Bank widening which turned out ok certainly doesn't mean all subsequent developments are just "peachy".

And of course many of the thousand outraged protestors this weekend don't live close to Hibbert Lane. 

Many are folk who shop in Marple and like the shopping experience there, or who have businesses in Marple and don't want to be driven out by yet another Tesco/ASDA, or who live near Buxton Lane and don't want to see a massive development on their doorstep. 

A few of them might even think that the behemoths that are Tesco/Asda aren't wanted in every town across this land, that towns don't need to be clones of each other, with each town selling the exact same items. 

Hey, some of the protestors might just be there because they think that after making £6,000 profit every minute of every day (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317797/Tesco-makes-profit-6k-minute-bosses-unveil-plans-mortgages.html), Tesco should pause their voracious appetite for new stores, and show some social responsiblity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_responsibility).

Likewise, if you drive out of Marple to do a "big supermarket shop" you are taking both your traffic fumes and your spending power out of Marple, not helping either the environment or the local traders.

Crikey Hollins, you're on a lost cause re environment issues. 

Huge number of people do their "big supermarket shop" on their way back from work, convenient that way and also keeps the costly petrol bill down. 

Environmental impact of a merely building a new Tesco/ASDA is massive : why else would Friends Of The Earth (whose Stockport branch is supporting Marple In Action efforts (http://twitter.com/#!/Stockport_FOE)) describe Tesco stores as "energy-intensive eyesores" (http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/the_tesco_takeover.pdf).  Or for Sheffield Hallam University (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=188) conclude "large superstores are the most energy inefficient buildings in the sector" or "It would take more than 60 corner shops and greengrocers to match the carbon dioxide emissions from one average sized superstore.".

If you demand that the college don't think just about money, then don't raise the issue of your house prices. If you complain about living in line of sight of a supermarket then just stand on the opposite side of Hibbert Lane and look at the college - it isn't the prettiest of buildings.

I am somewhat neutral about the local small shops - none of them are open when I come home from work and I am forced to spend money in the co-op ... or the co-op (yes, time that monopoly ended). On the other hand my children will shortly be going to the college every day, so I, like the governors and principal of CAMSFC, am concerned about their education and I really don't care whether the governors and principal live in Marple or not. Most of the wage-earners in Marple don't actually work in Marple - they commute outside.

Perhaps it is time for a new forum topic to start suggesting realistic alternative proposals for how Marple Sixth-Form College - and yes, it is MARPLE'S sixth form college - can raise the money they need for new build. I may (observing the poll) be in a minority in this forum who would like a new supermarket, but I don't think I am the only person in Marple in that position.

It's quite tricky for the man-in-the-street to review the college's financials (the last 3 years of which are published in spreadsheets here : colleges have to publish such data by law (http://skillsfundingagency.bis.gov.uk/providers/finance/financialmanagement/financialmanagement/collegeaccounts/)) and come up with suggestions, exacerbated by the vacuum of further information from the college. 

However, I understand our MP Andrew Stunell's "Get The College To Think Again" campaign will involve opening a dialogue with the college on this matter.

Let's do everything we can to avoid the college evacuating the Hibbert Lane campus, to avoid a huge supermarket muscling in, and to between us come up with a solution that suits the community and the students.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 21, 2011, 10:29:56 PM
What a fantastic post Neil !!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tina on August 21, 2011, 10:44:50 PM
Can I ask a question? .... The building on Buxton Lane has 5 floors, so how can a new building on there be intrusive?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 21, 2011, 11:19:34 PM
Can I ask a question? .... The building on Buxton Lane has 5 floors, so how can a new building on there be intrusive?
Because as it stands now it is rellatively small, However, because the college would have to encorperate both campuses onto one site the building would have to be bigger, so there goes your green fields and the football pitches, but because they can only take up a certain amount of space before the green belt comes into play the are going to build up aswell, so the buildling could be higher than it is currently :/
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 21, 2011, 11:27:07 PM
A very thoughtful post, hollims - well said!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 22, 2011, 08:00:57 AM
Miss M, you don't need an FOI request if ' what we are trying to find out is, if the due process has already been done and we are just sat watching them tie up the loose ends'. All planning applications can be viewed on the council website. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 22, 2011, 09:03:54 AM
Can I ask a question? .... The building on Buxton Lane has 5 floors, so how can a new building on there be intrusive?
Because as it stands now it is rellatively small, However, because the college would have to encorperate both campuses onto one site the building would have to be bigger, so there goes your green fields and the football pitches, but because they can only take up a certain amount of space before the green belt comes into play the are going to build up aswell, so the buildling could be higher than it is currently :/

Green belt wouldn't apply to the Buxton Road site - its an urban location. There are, however, standards for proximity of buildings and overlooking.

MM I think the point that Dave is trying to make is that at the moment, nothing is official and until a planning application is lodged, there is no real 'due process'. The College and / or developers are quite at liberty to have discussions with Council departments about various elements of their emerging scheme in order to understand whether any of it might be deemed suitable to the site in question, accords with standards, or addresses specific issues, but that doesn't mean that secret deals are being done. Its no different to speaking to the Council a number of times about a proposed extension to your house, albeit at a bit of a different scale! 

Ultimately the merits, or otherwise, of the scheme will  be tested publically via the planning process, which is transparent and factual. At that point all rumours, suspicion and emotion go out of the window and a scheme is considered entirley on the details of the scheme.

At present I can see both sides to the arguments with respect to the 'proposals' (such as they are at the moment) and will be in a much better position to make an informed judgement once I see the details of what any scheme might entail.

Could I also caution against turning up at area planning committee and ambushing the meeting. Firstly I think it would be counter productive to rail against Councillors and officers about something, that at this pre-planning stage, they have no control over. Secondly, lots of other local planning schemes will be being considered at that meeting, including projects for local people. Such persons would rightly be upset if their opportunity to have their plans considered was materially impacted upon by protests and demonstrations about a scheme that at this stage doesn't exist in planning terms!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 22, 2011, 09:10:42 AM
Very wise words from belly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cross Laner! on August 22, 2011, 09:45:11 AM
It may be worth considering another approach, in addition to all those currently being investigated.  Marple residents have used the college site for many years as a sporting / recreational ground.  Youth teams play/train on the football pitches, the sports hall is used for many sports in all weathers.

We may be able to add some weight to the 'open green space' argument??  See the following link for more information  http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/ (http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/)  Sporting England carry a lot weight too and it may be worth asking for their opinion http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx (http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx)

"Local communities will be able to earmark for special consideration local ‘green space’ land – whether its value is in its natural beauty, its historic resonances, its recreational value, its tranquillity or its importance as wildlife habitat"

Just a thought....?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 22, 2011, 01:21:49 PM
It may be worth considering another approach, in addition to all those currently being investigated.  Marple residents have used the college site for many years as a sporting / recreational ground.  Youth teams play/train on the football pitches, the sports hall is used for many sports in all weathers.

We may be able to add some weight to the 'open green space' argument??  See the following link for more information  http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/ (http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/)  Sporting England carry a lot weight too and it may be worth asking for their opinion http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx (http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx)

"Local communities will be able to earmark for special consideration local ‘green space’ land – whether its value is in its natural beauty, its historic resonances, its recreational value, its tranquillity or its importance as wildlife habitat"

Just a thought....?

It's worth a try.

However, whilst a lot has been made of the fact that they *could* build a Supermarket the size of Portwood on the plot of land as a whole, I think that if/when their planning application is submitted, it'll be for something much smaller (along the lines of Glossop), that would fit within the footprint of the existing buildings.

If they did that, then it would be a good PR move for them to propose rejuvenating the open space, committing to maintaining it, and maybe even improving it - say adding a children's play area similar to that in Memorial Park. And, of course, doing that would nullify one of the valid routes of objection to redevelopment of the site, loss of amenity (ie loss of the open space).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 22, 2011, 05:20:35 PM
Some years ago, following the lead of other residents in our road, I joined in a protest about a new block of flats being built in our road. It also evoked an outcry at a local area committee, demands for information about who knew what and when, claims about depressing house prices, traffic etc. The council dutifully threw out the planning proposal and the developers subsequently won their appeal. I look at what was built and wonder why I campaigned against it - it doesn't look bad and has negligible impact on me or the local environment. I was stupid to jump on the bandwagon of opposing change for the sake of opposing change.

The same appears to be happening here. I note with some concern that some of the most vociferous opponents of a supermarket scheme are the same people who vigorously condemned the work on Dan Bank. Well, look at that now: it is a magnificent piece of civil engineering, looks tidy, is a lot safer and, with a bit of care of the trees, will be many times better than before.

People make a lot about CAMSFC's governors not living in Marple. Well, looking at the photographs of the march, quite a lot of the participants don't live anywhere close to Hibbert Lane either and aren't going to be remotely affected by this scheme.

Likewise, if you drive out of Marple to do a "big supermarket shop" you are taking both your traffic fumes and your spending power out of Marple, not helping either the environment or the local traders. If you demand that the college don't think just about money, then don't raise the issue of your house prices. If you complain about living in line of sight of a supermarket then just stand on the opposite side of Hibbert Lane and look at the college - it isn't the prettiest of buildings.

I am somewhat neutral about the local small shops - none of them are open when I come home from work and I am forced to spend money in the co-op ... or the co-op (yes, time that monopoly ended). On the other hand my children will shortly be going to the college every day, so I, like the governors and principal of CAMSFC, am concerned about their education and I really don't care whether the governors and principal live in Marple or not. Most of the wage-earners in Marple don't actually work in Marple - they commute outside.

Perhaps it is time for a new forum topic to start suggesting realistic alternative proposals for how Marple Sixth-Form College - and yes, it is MARPLE'S sixth form college - can raise the money they need for new build. I may (observing the poll) be in a minority in this forum who would like a new supermarket, but I don't think I am the only person in Marple in that position.



Hollins,if the apartments built on the bungalow site Staion Rd/Hollins Green Rd are what you are talking about,they are a lot less intrusive as a supermarket.There is no comparison!Of course people all over Marple will be affected by increased traffic not just Hibbert lane and surrounding roads, thats why they attended the march amongst other reasons ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 22, 2011, 05:33:17 PM
It may be worth considering another approach, in addition to all those currently being investigated.  Marple residents have used the college site for many years as a sporting / recreational ground.  Youth teams play/train on the football pitches, the sports hall is used for many sports in all weathers.

We may be able to add some weight to the 'open green space' argument??  See the following link for more information  http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/ (http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/)  Sporting England carry a lot weight too and it may be worth asking for their opinion http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx (http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx)

"Local communities will be able to earmark for special consideration local ‘green space’ land – whether its value is in its natural beauty, its historic resonances, its recreational value, its tranquillity or its importance as wildlife habitat"

Just a thought....?
Thanks for the suggestion Jo s,That and similar items are already being looked into. Keep 'em coming though :) Every little helps! ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on August 23, 2011, 09:31:06 AM
http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/08/marple-supermarket-arguments-for.html

Interesting reading.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 23, 2011, 10:05:51 AM
http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/08/marple-supermarket-arguments-for.html

Interesting reading.

Yes it is a good point, I always thought being a blogger was a euphemism for unemployed people to give themselves a bit of self-worth but Michael has a proper job. The first comment is very good.

It's not often I agree with the Union of Soviet Socialist Dave on here but he & Hollins are quite right. The contant FOI requests for largely irrelevant information is counter productive in that it is going to turn decision makers off rather than get them onside.

The misinformation that the comment on Marple Leaf's blog is extremely relevant. Whilst we may be able to mobilise troops is we tell everyone the shop is going to be bigger than Tesco Portwood & larger than 4,5,6 football pitches, if the actual plans show this to be untrue, the objection will be dead in the water.


I am against a Supermarket on the site I think it's the wrong place for an additional retail centre that can only detract from the existing stores. and there are traffic issues for an area of the Town that cannot really cope with the current traffic levels. However, the objections must be logical, based on fact and practical alternatives sought.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lee on August 23, 2011, 10:26:07 PM
I know I`m going to get pelters but I am part of the silent majority in Marple who think a new supermarket development is just what the town needs.
Marple centre is tired looking and on it`s last legs and although a shame it`s harsh economical facts. 
If SMBC were that bothered they would offer competitive discounts on business rates for new businesses and offer free parking.
The main street is full of empty premises so anew supermarket won`t do any harm.
Marple should re brand itself as the gateway to some beautiful countryside and outdoor pursuits and create niche shops to fit in with that style of town/village centre.

I`m not trying to wind you all up I just think an alternative viewpoint should be aired.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 23, 2011, 11:27:17 PM
I know I`m going to get pelters but I am part of the silent majority in Marple who think a new supermarket development is just what the town needs.
Marple centre is tired looking and on it`s last legs and although a shame it`s harsh economical facts. 
If SMBC were that bothered they would offer competitive discounts on business rates for new businesses and offer free parking.
The main street is full of empty premises so anew supermarket won`t do any harm.
Marple should re brand itself as the gateway to some beautiful countryside and outdoor pursuits and create niche shops to fit in with that style of town/village centre.

I`m not trying to wind you all up I just think an alternative viewpoint should be aired.

Whilst I agree a new supermaket COULD give the place a kickstart, not at the Hibbert Lane site as that would only make things worse.

THe answer would be to have a supermarket within the centre but the only premises suitable would be the clothes shop.

Fully with you that business rates needs to be addressing for retailers, business rates have been used to rape businesses over the past 15 years and a profit related local tax system is needed. I
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 23, 2011, 11:46:29 PM
No 'pelters' from this direction, Jerome - I think you make some good points.

Duke, if by 'the clothes shop' you mean McKay's, I suspect that's much too small for a Tesco or Asda.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 23, 2011, 11:55:30 PM
No 'pelters' from this direction, Jerome - I think you make some good points.

Duke, if by 'the clothes shop' you mean McKay's, I suspect that's much too small for a Tesco or Asda.

M and co is the one i mean as there is the upstairs too.

I've suggested before that as I understand it the landlord of themm&co is the same as the 1960s  shop opposite the Italian restaurant. The key would be to tempt m&co into that shop and a supermarket such as moggies into the m&co building
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 24, 2011, 12:05:50 AM
...
The answer would be to have a supermarket within the centre but the only premises suitable would be the clothes shop.

Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2011, 07:21:37 AM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 24, 2011, 07:42:20 AM
Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).



This may be the worst possible scenario.

A new supermarket, which, some are claiming, would increase traffic.

The loss of a major car park in the town centre.

The college then having to sell the Hibbert Lane site for housing, so another few hundred homes built, which in turn means hundreds more cars.

And we will probably have another hundred or so homes on the Peacefield site eventually.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 08:28:05 AM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!

True Dave but that is the college's problem & not of my concern.

I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 08:41:51 AM
...
The answer would be to have a supermarket within the centre but the only premises suitable would be the clothes shop.

Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).

I hadn't seen that, interesting but the site is suggested only IF it is believed an existing site in unavailable. My solution is to utilise the existing buildings if it is attractive to the commercial organisations. I see this as a solution as m&co get a cheaper rent, coop don't have an empty building, newco supermarket get a new store in a good location, MIA fend off Hibbert la & Marple get the supermarket they demand



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 24, 2011, 09:21:35 AM

I hadn't seen that, interesting but the site is suggested only IF it is believed an existing site in unavailable. My solution is to utilise the existing buildings if it is attractive to the commercial organisations. I see this as a solution as m&co get a cheaper rent, coop don't have an empty building, newco supermarket get a new store in a good location, MIA fend off Hibbert la & Marple get the supermarket they demand

Just a couple of possible problems there Duke.

M&Co may not want to move to smaller premises.

The Co-op used to be in the building where M&Co currently is, but then it had the whole ground floor, including what is now Superdrug. This wasn't large enough so they had the current store built. This may mean that the Co-op are the landlord there, and therefore wouldn't rent to a supermarket, even though it would only be convenience store size.

Also, I doubt that any new supermarket of a viable size, i.e. if they also got the Superdrug premises, would accept a site without car parking right alongside it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 09:52:46 AM

I hadn't seen that, interesting but the site is suggested only IF it is believed an existing site in unavailable. My solution is to utilise the existing buildings if it is attractive to the commercial organisations. I see this as a solution as m&co get a cheaper rent, coop don't have an empty building, newco supermarket get a new store in a good location, MIA fend off Hibbert la & Marple get the supermarket they demand

Just a couple of possible problems there Duke.

M&Co may not want to move to smaller premises.

The Co-op used to be in the building where M&Co currently is, but then it had the whole ground floor, including what is now Superdrug. This wasn't large enough so they had the current store built. This may mean that the Co-op are the landlord there, and therefore wouldn't rent to a supermarket, even though it would only be convenience store size.

Also, I doubt that any new supermarket of a viable size, i.e. if they also got the Superdrug premises, would accept a site without car parking right alongside it.

If M&Co don’t want to move, so be it. I’m certainly not ever suggesting the local authority dictate what commercial business should do, people within the LA’s tend not to be very sharp & should never get involved in business.

I understand the Co-op is the landlord (or at least the owner of the current lease) in both the M&co shop & the one opposite the Italian. Whilst the co-op may not want to rent a property to a competitor in an ideal world, the threat to the co-op is that a competitor opens a much larger store on the college site. Renting to a competitor in a smaller store may be seen as not only the least dangerous option, it also blows the argument of any other store wanting to build on  new site that Marple people are demanding more competition. It also puts the co-op in control of who the competitor is which again may be seen as attractive in the circumstances.

As for size, the M&co does not use the upstairs of the building, that is quite a decent square footage.

I think the car-parking issue is easily resolved, the current car-park is close enough and the capacity can be increased with another car-park level added. With a bit of cladding and softening of the edges, multi-story car parks can be made quite presentable.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2011, 11:03:12 AM
Duke, the college may very well be able to 'become more efficient and create more income streams', but there's no way that would raise 12 million of capital, sadly! And btw, the 'current guy' is a woman.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 11:33:54 AM
Duke, the college may very well be able to 'become more efficient and create more income streams', but there's no way that would raise 12 million of capital, sadly! And btw, the 'current guy' is a woman.

Whatever next, they'll get the vote.

Becoming more efficient and more income streams will give the ability to raise funds.

I'd take some convincing that the college needs to raise £12m in any case and the same applies to the need for replacing the current buildings with 'efficient buildings'. My first instinct is that's just a load of lefty mumbo jumbo but I can be convinced.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 12:06:02 PM
Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).



This may be the worst possible scenario.

A new supermarket, which, some are claiming, would increase traffic.

The loss of a major car park in the town centre.

The college then having to sell the Hibbert Lane site for housing, so another few hundred homes built, which in turn means hundreds more cars.

And we will probably have another hundred or so homes on the Peacefield site eventually

It's not really that bad a deal, there is plenty scope for an extra level of parking on a number of car park sites however, it would be better to have the supermarket within the excisting retail area so maybe the car park at Derby St would be a better site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 24, 2011, 12:39:31 PM
I should think the idea of multi level car parks is the way to go. This seems to have worked very well at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 24, 2011, 04:01:59 PM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!

True Dave but that is the college's problem & not of my concern.

I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.

And the college would probably say what you want is not their concern.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 24, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
Building another supermarket in the precient would still kill local shops (especially the Co-op) as the smaller independant shops cannot compete with the low prices due to the sheer buying power of the big companies. It could also increase traffic and there is the parking problem. Residents on Chadwick street would probably not want a multi-story for a view. The car park also is chock a block on theatre nights so if the car park went to make way for a building it would be chaos around the roads round there.

Suggesting shops move or a better use for the site isn't really going to do anything it's just wishful thinking, sadly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2011, 04:42:55 PM
This thread seems to be drifting into la-la-land! AFAIK there is no proposal to build a supermarket on Chadwick Street, or on the McKay's site or M and Co or whatever it's called this week. I suggest we go back to discussing what IS being proposed.

Duke, are all new buildings 'lefty mumbo jumbo'? Or just college buildings?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on August 24, 2011, 04:58:21 PM
I think the point that was made in Paul Lawrence's email was that IF more retail development was done in Marple then it would be on Chadwick St as that is already zoned for retail. He was telling the college that it although it was a "less commercially attractive [site than Hibbert Lane]" (presumably to a developer) the council believed it was "deliverable" (presumably a purchaser/developer would be able to work with the council to develop it).

So, because Chadwick St is in the right place and that it is next in line for development, he was telling the college that Hibbert Lane's status as a development opportunity is significantly undermined.

This doesn't help the college in selling off Hibbert lane for the £12m-£13m they say they need, but it still means that there could be another supermarket in Marple, just not on Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 06:12:40 PM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!

True Dave but that is the college's problem & not of my concern.

I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.

And the college would probably say what you want is not their concern.

But it is because I am a local resident whom would be able to object to planning applications.

The college's lust for £12m is not my concern
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on August 24, 2011, 06:26:57 PM
This thread seems to be drifting into la-la-land! AFAIK there is no proposal to build a supermarket on Chadwick Street, or on the McKay's site or M and Co or whatever it's called this week. I suggest we go back to discussing what IS being proposed.

hear hear!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 06:31:45 PM
This thread seems to be drifting into la-la-land! AFAIK there is no proposal to build a supermarket on Chadwick Street, or on the McKay's site or M and Co or whatever it's called this week. I suggest we go back to discussing what IS being proposed.

Duke, are all new buildings 'lefty mumbo jumbo'? Or just college buildings?

No need for that Dave, you've just misunderstand me.

You rightly say (in more coherent times) that should the college sell to a supermarket, the purchaser will need to apply for plannig. Until then, no amount of hysteria will change anything.

I am anticipating the arguments a developer will put forward and points made elsewhere on this forum. The obvious ones are:

The shops in Marple do not meet the shopping demands of the people of Marple. This is clear as the majority advise they shop elsewhere for their 'big' shop.

The co-op has a monopoly in the supermarket stakes in Marple and shoppers in Marple suffer.


To counter this argument the obvious solution would be for another supermarket to enter teh local market and the co-op holds the cards to make this possible.

As for mumbo jumbo, I think your argument that the college's buildings are inefficient is a red-herring, I can't see the justification for selling the site on this basis. As I say, I am prepared to be convinced otherwise.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 24, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Latest FOI Response:
Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).

Here's a pic of the letter, for anyone without a PDF viewer.  Click on it for a larger view.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 24, 2011, 10:09:10 PM
One very important question was  raised at  tonights Area Committee meeting by a member of the public, which has really got me thinking.   I wanted to remind people of the above letter from Paul Lawrence,  read carefully about the Localism Bill.   Oh I do hope the chap who asked the question  reads this web sight if he does he will be very concerned and rightly so given it's contents.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 25, 2011, 11:37:57 AM
One very important question was  raised at  tonights Area Committee meeting by a member of the public, which has really got me thinking.   I wanted to remind people of the above letter from Paul Lawrence,  read carefully about the Localism Bill.   Oh I do hope the chap who asked the question  reads this web sight if he does he will be very concerned and rightly so given it's contents.

For those of us who didn't attend the meeting, could you expand a little on what you mean. In particular, what was the question asked?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on August 25, 2011, 06:43:27 PM
I believe this was the information brought up yesterday at the Local Area Meeting

Neighbourhood planning
Instead of local people being told what to do, the Government thinks that local
communities should have genuine opportunities to influence the future of the
places where they live.  The Bill will introduce a new right for communities to
draw up a ‘neighbourhood development plan’. 
Neighbourhood planning will allow communities to come together through a
local parish council or neighbourhood forum and say where they think new
houses, businesses and shops should go – and what they should look like. 
11These neighbourhood development plans could be very simple, or go into
considerable detail where people want.  Local communities would also be
able to grant full or outline planning permission in areas where they most want
to see new homes and businesses, making it easier and quicker for
development to go ahead.   
Provided a neighbourhood development plan is in line with national planning
policy, with the strategic vision for the wider area set by the local authority,
and with other legal requirements, local people will be able to vote on it in a
referendum.  If the plan is approved by a majority, then the local authority will
bring it into force.
Local planning authorities will be required to provide technical advice and
support as neighbourhoods draw up their plans.  The Government will also
fund sources of help and advice for communities.  This will help people take
advantage of the opportunity to exercise influence over decisions that make a
big difference to their lives. 
(taken from the Plain English Guide to The Localism Bill http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/localgovernment/localismplainenglishguide)

The question of how Andrew Stunnell voted was also raised.  His record of voting can be viewed here
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?id=uk.org.publicwhip/member/40307&showall=yes#divisions
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on August 25, 2011, 06:49:12 PM
Forgot this bit as well - very relevant

Requirement to consult communities before submitting very large
planning applications

To further strengthen the role of local communities in planning, the Bill will
introduce a new requirement for developers to consult local communities
before submitting planning applications for very large developments. This will
give local people a chance to comment when there is still genuine scope to
make changes to proposals. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 25, 2011, 06:51:06 PM
Thanks Mabel,interesting reading!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 25, 2011, 08:01:25 PM
I have to say I have very real concerns regarding the localism bill. For something that is supposed to help improve the planning system by giving further weight to the local voice, there is a real danger that it could morph into a NIMBY's charter.  

There is an awful lot of important infrastructure that needs to be delivered in this country (not supermarkets obviously)which is always the subject of 'not here, try somewhere else, as long as its not on my patch' resposes from local ation groups - often going against the needs and wishes of the wider community (eg: town, borough, county). The localism bill could really put the cat amongst the pigeons, and create major delay and confusion, after all what is local?

I know that the potential ramifications of the bill really worry local authorities, as we are probably about to enter some real unchartered planning territory, where a lot of early decisions are going to act as test cases for the rest of the country. Get ready for a great big mess, which I suspect is the sub-text of the SMBC's planners comments.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on August 25, 2011, 08:53:01 PM
Quote
I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 25, 2011, 08:58:40 PM
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!

Actually its niether a collage nor a school.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on August 25, 2011, 09:09:39 PM
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!

Actually its niether a collage nor a school.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
so what is it then harry,campus ? your gonna amaze me with a technical correct name for the said buildings on hibbert lane that EVERYONE calls the collage!,that used to be a school cant wait  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 25, 2011, 09:38:01 PM
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!

Actually its niether a collage nor a school.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
so what is it then harry,campus ? your gonna amaze me with a technical correct name for the said buildings on hibbert lane that EVERYONE calls the collage!,that used to be a school cant wait  ???

collage? 
noun
a technique of composing a work of art by pasting on a single surface various materials not normally associated with one another, as newspaper clippings, parts of photographs, theater tickets, and fragments of an envelope.

college
noun
an institution of higher learning, especially one providing a general or liberal arts education rather than technical or professional training.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 25, 2011, 09:44:02 PM
I should think the idea of multi level car parks is the way to go. This seems to have worked very well at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme.

I now I am going to sound really cheeky but I don't mean to, but I imagine you as being someone who has  just left school/ college  Do you shop in a supermarket ? silly question I know but I have just built up a picture of you  over time   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on August 25, 2011, 11:43:19 PM
firstly by way of background i lived in marple for 25 years and have lived elsewhere for as long but my family still live in the town so i have observed the "tesco" debate with interest and wanted to make some observations from an outside maybe more objective position
1 everyone agrees the coop is a very poor retail offer
2 everyone agrees most people are currently travelling out of marple for their primary convenience shopping
3 marple shopping centre has been getting worse for over a decade now with no sign of improvement
4 a lot of people refer to marple as a village ,it isnt itsa medium sized town ,it stopped being a village in the 60s 70s when all the housing estates were built ,this is very important as that rose coloured memory of a place long gone colours some peoples opinions and is backward looking not forward
5 there is no sequentially suitable site in the town closer than hibbert st for a superstore able to compete with the coop or to stop people driving out of town to shop,chadkirk st is far too small
 6 if the no camp succeed what is there vision for the town ,because the retail offer willcontinue to decline andso far all i have seen are lots of people claiming a superstore will be its death knell ,as an outsider believe me it looks like its doing a good job of dying without any help
7 marple has aeging population ,look at stocports bc website for some stats ,turning away asuperstore wont help reverse that
8 lastly ,beware an MP after votes ,andrew stunnell may make noises of support but remember he is a liberal mp in a coalition most liberal voters hate and with a small majority to defend AND he is a minister in eric pickles department which has published the most radical shake up proposals to planning for thelast 20 years and at the heart of the changes is the assumption that development should go ahead unless there are overwhelming reasons against and that economic development and jobs come first ,localism is a red herring and that includes retail development
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on August 26, 2011, 06:49:29 AM
1. Everyone in Marple? Evidence?
2. Ditto.
3. Marple shopping centre has undergone improvements in recent years and there is a good variety of shops.
4. Marple is often referred to as a village because that's what people do...it may no longer be the size of a village but it retains many of the elements of a village i.e. a close knit community, community events and festivals, many community groups and a lot of people of all ages who have grown up here and lived here all their lives. Referring to Marple as a village doesn't mean the people of Marple are "backward looking".
5. Hanbury's old site would be more than adequate for Marple's needs.
6. I have to disgree that Marple is "doing a good job of dying", perhaps you've been away too long. A visit on a sunny Saturday morning will show you just how "dying" Marple is! The precinct isn't simply a shopping centre it is also a sociable place where people meet and chat or sit outside and enjoy a coffee with friends.
7. Why would anyone want to reverse the numbers of older folk in Marple?
8. I'm not a political person but would agree that it is important to closely examine  the motivations of anyone with a possible political agenda in getting involved with our campaign.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 26, 2011, 08:34:59 AM
I should think the idea of multi level car parks is the way to go. This seems to have worked very well at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme.

I now I am going to sound really cheeky but I don't mean to, but I imagine you as being someone who has  just left school/ college  Do you shop in a supermarket ? silly question I know but I have just built up a picture of you  over time   :-\

It seems like just a few months since I left school and college. Unfortunately, its nearly a lifetime ago.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 26, 2011, 02:22:23 PM
I can't agree with marplexile that the town is 'dying' - far from it: I've lived here for 27 years and the town and its shops are better now than at any time during that period.

However, in all other respects s/he is spot on. Sometimes you see things more clearly from further away!

As for our MP, he may or may not be re-elected next time, but his support for MIA is unlikely to have any bearing on that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 26, 2011, 02:24:18 PM
firstly by way of background i lived in marple for 25 years and have lived elsewhere for as long but my family still live in the town so i have observed the "tesco" debate with interest and wanted to make some observations from an outside maybe more objective position

 6 if the no camp succeed what is there vision for the town ,because the retail offer willcontinue to decline andso far all i have seen are lots of people claiming a superstore will be its death knell ,as an outsider believe me it looks like its doing a good job of dying without any help
7 marple has aeging population ,look at stocports bc website for some stats ,turning away asuperstore wont help reverse that
8 lastly ,beware an MP after votes ,andrew stunnell may make noises of support but remember he is a liberal mp in a coalition most liberal voters hate and with a small majority to defend AND he is a minister in eric pickles department which has published the most radical shake up proposals to planning for thelast 20 years and at the heart of the changes is the assumption that development should go ahead unless there are overwhelming reasons against and that economic development and jobs come first ,localism is a red herring and that includes retail development

Some sweeping generalisations amongst that,

6. Not really true, the retail offer in the town / village will thrive if the visitor numbers are high. As someone who has connections with a retail business who is considering opening a branch of her shop in Marple, I can assure you that if the numbers are right, new retails will come. A supermarket 1/2 mile up the road will not make those numbers look attractive.
7. Everyone ages, it's a fact of life. Whilst turning away a superstore will not reverse the aging process, I'm not aware that having one will.

8 I'm not sure Liberal voters hate them being in coalition, in fact, surely that is the best anyone who does not vote for the two dominant parties can hope for.  I voted Lib Dem this round and I was thrilled for them to hold the balance of power. Stunnell & Pickles are absolutely spot on, development should not be held back wherever possible, the fact Stunnell Understands that this would be a development that will cause more harm thatn good, I'd say that's what an MP iis supposed to do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 26, 2011, 02:25:03 PM
Sorry, I meant exmarpleite, not marplexile!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on August 26, 2011, 05:43:06 PM
a few more observations
1 an ageing population is bad it means you lose things like primary schools first  ! then secondary schools then pubs then restaurants then retailers and end up with a dead town marple has a very unbalanced population compared to the rest of stockport
2 everything you do say on here will be taken down and can be used against you in a planning enquiry,i would put good money that everything on here is being copied in offices in leeds ,welwyn garden city and holbourn and may be used by a foodstore to make their case ,i especially refer you to the endless slagging offs the coop is getting ,there are two things this governments  current planning policy is founded on and that is competition and jobs if you keep saying the coop is rubbish and expensive that makes the case for the need for competition ,if they can prove their 300 new jobs outweigh those that would be lost in smaller retailers and the coop they win that argument
3 sequential testing ,if the retailer makes his case as point 2 he then has to prove he has looked at all sequentially better sites ie ones closer to the town centre and none of them are suitable ,they will probably be able to argue without any problem that that means sites big enough to take a store at least the size of the coop not smaller otherwise that isnt competative ,i think unless you are going to sacrifice the rec the willows is the nearest suitable and avaliable site
4 it is not sustainable for 5'000 or however many journeys it is a week from marple to stockport or hazel grove etc to shop thats 5 miles each way x X000 journeys x52 weeks a year ,take all those journeys off the road and you make a strong enviromental case
remember people all 3 retailers in stockport and everywhere else know exactly how many times you shop there and again will use those statistics against you in an enquiry and as most of you are making those journeys every week you cannot argue against it
5 best guess is college will go to tender with foodstores in the autumn ,price will rocket above £12m if two or more of them want it £20m+ is easily acheivable ,stockport will refuse the applicationand it will go to enquiry ,start preparing your case now

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 26, 2011, 06:18:58 PM
a few more observations
1 an ageing population is bad it means you lose things like primary schools first  ! then secondary schools then pubs then restaurants then retailers and end up with a dead town marple has a very unbalanced population compared to the rest of stockport
2 everything you do say on here will be taken down and can be used against you in a planning enquiry,i would put good money that everything on here is being copied in offices in leeds ,welwyn garden city and holbourn and may be used by a foodstore to make their case ,i especially refer you to the endless slagging offs the coop is getting ,there are two things this governments  current planning policy is founded on and that is competition and jobs if you keep saying the coop is rubbish and expensive that makes the case for the need for competition ,if they can prove their 300 new jobs outweigh those that would be lost in smaller retailers and the coop they win that argument
3 sequential testing ,if the retailer makes his case as point 2 he then has to prove he has looked at all sequentially better sites ie ones closer to the town centre and none of them are suitable ,they will probably be able to argue without any problem that that means sites big enough to take a store at least the size of the coop not smaller otherwise that isnt competative ,i think unless you are going to sacrifice the rec the willows is the nearest suitable and avaliable site
4 it is not sustainable for 5'000 or however many journeys it is a week from marple to stockport or hazel grove etc to shop thats 5 miles each way x X000 journeys x52 weeks a year ,take all those journeys off the road and you make a strong enviromental case
remember people all 3 retailers in stockport and everywhere else know exactly how many times you shop there and again will use those statistics against you in an enquiry and as most of you are making those journeys every week you cannot argue against it
5 best guess is college will go to tender with foodstores in the autumn ,price will rocket above £12m if two or more of them want it £20m+ is easily acheivable ,stockport will refuse the applicationand it will go to enquiry ,start preparing your case now



Interesting points.

I think you are right in that to oppose the supermarkets effectively, we will have to  anticipate the arguments put forward by the supermarkets and counter them effectively.

Yes, the interested supermarkets are  likely to be monitoring what we're doing on this site & the MIA site. They are possibly going through Miss Marples bins as we type..

I think the argument of every Marple dweller having to drive out to a supermarket is pushing it a bit. I'll call into Aldi / Sainsbury on my way home if I need something but few people I wager will travel 5 miles to exclusively go to a supermarket, we're not that sad.

The aging population of Marple is a snapshot really. Where I grew up, many people moved to our town in the 50's as the local nucleur wepons employer expanded and the likes of my parents were tempted by exciting jobs etc. 10 years ago, whenever I went home, the place was quiet as the poulation had aged and everyone had retired.Now I go back and lots of young familiies have moved in becaus everyone you know, someday will die.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 26, 2011, 09:22:19 PM
I also think the supermarkets are very likely to look on this site and will know what arguments they need to get around. A quick google search easily finds this site.

Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.

I recently spoke to a couple about the potential supermarket and they said they and their friends wanted a supermarket as it is alright for those who have cars and can afford the Co-op/local shops but they cannot and so have to either struggle or rely on people for lifts to Asda/Tesco etc. Not everyone can afford the £5 a week online charge-and that is if they have a computer to start with and credit card etc. A view I have heard a few times is that the people with signs up agaisnst the supermarket have cars in theit driveways. The people may be middle aged or perceieved 'middle class'. A young couple with no car or no computer would be forced to pay over the odds at the Co-op or rely on family members for lifts. I have done it myself when I started out. When i was told to look at it this way i could see their point. How can this argument be countered as it seems to be the strongest one I am hearing and i am sure the supermarket will hear it too when they (IF they) do their surveys etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on August 26, 2011, 09:30:29 PM
here is something i dont understand ,when stockport  mbc "sold "the college did they impose restrictions on the resale on it and future uses for the land ,if not its either negligent of them or incompetant
duke sadly most people are sad and food shopping tends to be a dedicated trip ,however there is curiously a bright side to that in this if you will bear with me its a little complex
at the moment a lot ,we can argue how many ,people are doing their main food shopping outside marple ,from comments i have seen about the coop quite a lot ,therefore the trips they make to do that do not include any linked trips in marple ,rather they may link trips in stockport ,hazel grove ,hyde etc
i accept people who shop in the coop are likely to also shop elsewhere in marple as its so well located in the centre ,but as so many people dont like the coop there is probably a net loss to the town
now if a new superstore on hibbert lane draws a good percentage of those people going out of marple for their food shop back the question is will any or many or some of them also do other shopping in marple ,most people on here seeem to think not ,but if the nuber of returnee shoppers who then also shop in marple outnuber the loss of people at the coop the town has a net gain
i think the coop is so substandard and its offer so poor there is a reasonable prospect that a full blown superstore on hibbert will drAw back more people than the coop loses
the key in my argument is then to get as many of those people from hibbert lane in to the town centre ,improvements to footpaths ,free car parking in the centre etc
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 26, 2011, 10:08:08 PM
here is something i dont understand ,when stockport  mbc "sold "the college did they impose restrictions on the resale on it and future uses for the land ,if not its either negligent of them or incompetant

It was a national change, Act of Parliament.  Stockport MBC had no say in the matter.

Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/13/part/I/chapter/II/crossheading/transfer-of-property-etc-to-further-education-corporations)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 26, 2011, 10:24:29 PM
Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.
I've just had a quick search on facebook for a group about wanting a tescos in marple, The only 2 I could find had, wait for it, An amazing 0 likes!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 26, 2011, 10:39:25 PM
Where did Tesco put the coaches on to go to   And just for the record ASDA is reported to be CAMSFC preferred choice, don't ask me why I don't know  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tricky on August 26, 2011, 10:58:44 PM
Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.
I've just had a quick search on facebook for a group about wanting a tescos in marple, The only 2 I could find had, wait for it, An amazing 0 likes!



http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/groups/160277760718224/ (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/groups/160277760718224/)

and

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Yes-to-Supermarket-in-Marple/256280167727382 (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Yes-to-Supermarket-in-Marple/256280167727382)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 26, 2011, 11:01:37 PM
There's been a fair bit of grumbling about co-op being overpriced, poorly stocked etc.  On a positive note though, good to see they're promoting and help finance (https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-co-operative/were-backing-high-street-fund-following-riots-and-i-love-mcr/250008611700142) the "I Love MCR" campaign with a £100k donation.

Hope the Marple resident (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1457059_manchester-riots-shame-of-teenager-who-stole-booze) in court this week for participating in the Manchester riots was a co-op shopper.  :P

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 26, 2011, 11:20:04 PM
Where did Tesco put the coaches on to go to   And just for the record ASDA is reported to be CAMSFC preferred choice, don't ask me why I don't know  :-\

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html

The Manningtree4tesco website had reference to provided coaches possibly by Tesco.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Manningtree4Tesco/188236708933

I know it isn't Tesco for sure that may be the top bidder but it is interesting to look at what has happened elsewhere regardless of the actual supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 08:09:27 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with exmarpleite that if we get it right, a new supermarket on Hibbert Lane could give a massive boost to Marple. As we all know, a good proportion of the 23,000 of us who live here do our main supermarket shop elsewhere, and yes, I plead guilty too!

If we can reverse that flow, so that we residents do our 'big shop' here, and also attract new shoppers from neighbouring areas, I believe we could begin to witness a revitalised town centre. Yes, some businesses would close because they can't compete with Tesco/Asda, but others would open, attracted to the town by the increased 'footfall'.

And meanwhile, our kids and grandkids get the decent educational facilities which they need and deserve.

I believe that the MIA campaign is parochial and short-sighted, and not at all in the long-term interests of our community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 27, 2011, 08:34:09 AM
MIA are becoming Increasingly  concerned that when the land is sold to a supermarket the colleges long term plans are to take the money and run.  12 million pounds by today's standards is not a lot of money and the Buxton Lane development will require more investment than that .  At the Area Committee meeting MIA spoke about information which had come to light re CAMSFC disposing of the two sights ie HIBBERT Lane and Buxton Lane and purchasing somewhere like Jackson Lane. 
Always remember that this issue is more than just an issue of a supermarket , it's about the land at HIBBERT Lane and Buxton Lane  that was  gifted to the people of MARPLE and has  now become in the hands of a private company who will sell without ANY consultation, care or concern   That can not be right !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 08:43:18 AM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 27, 2011, 09:43:26 AM
Well  according to Councillor Bisphan it cost around 36 million for the Cheadle Development so this is where we are all starting to think the unthinkable that the college will take the monies from both sites and run.  It is also now becoming more than a rumour that MARPLE Hall is applying for Academy status and is now being spoken about by all elected parties.  So it's not really as it first seemed because MARPLE looks like it's going to be well and truly had over, by a private company.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 27, 2011, 09:46:11 AM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.
CAMSFC actually wanted 60 million originally, see Stockport Express : Cash for new college building withdrawn (http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1126132_cash_for_new_college_building_withdrawn), so they'll have to considerably scale back their development plans I guess.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!
Either that's speculation on your part, or you've got some well-placed inside knowledge Dave?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 10:12:39 AM
I have no connection with camsfc, but I did work at a college (not in this area) before I retired.

Although colleges of this sort are independent of local authorities, they are also highly regulated. Camsfc's funding, AFAIK, will be from two main sources: SMBC (for 16-18 year olds) and the Skills Funding Agency (for adult students). The funds will be per student enrolment, and will come with conditions attached, in the form of a Financial Memorandum. As 60 percent of the college's students come from Marple, the funders could (and almost certainly would) withdraw funding if the college were to move away. It's as simple as that!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 27, 2011, 10:32:38 AM
Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.
I've just had a quick search on facebook for a group about wanting a tescos in marple, The only 2 I could find had, wait for it, An amazing 0 likes!

As somebody above posted, there is at least one group with quite a few people in. One has over 120 as i said in my original post. Some of them seem to be inviting friends and may not be easily searchable but the other poster linked to it. It is interesting to note their arguments. I had a read through and the same themes are recurring such as it is alright for those who have the means to go out of town to say they don't want a supermarket but for the low income with no car etc. the possibility of a cheap supermarket (when they are already on the breadline) is welcome. People mention the fact there are not any cheap clothes shops in marple for example (I agree M&Co is expensive). How would this argument be countered as i am pretty sure it will be used in Asda's/Tesco's favour.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 10:46:59 AM
I have no connection with camsfc, but I did work at a college (not in this area) before I retired.

Although colleges of this sort are independent of local authorities, they are also highly regulated. Camsfc's funding, AFAIK, will be from two main sources: SMBC (for 16-18 year olds) and the Skills Funding Agency (for adult students). The funds will be per student enrolment, and will come with conditions attached, in the form of a Financial Memorandum. As 60 percent of the college's students come from Marple, the funders could (and almost certainly would) withdraw funding if the college were to move away. It's as simple as that!

Or not as simple as that.  If CAMSFC could realise £20+million from the sale of both sites, they could put forward a strong argument for relocation to a state of the art college, with the bonus of not having to borrow funds for the new development...the funding providers may well like the idea.  Re the enrollment figures, statistics can be manipulated as per necessary.  It's a possibility Dave and, as previously posted, unless you have some factual inside knowledge, you can't dismiss it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 27, 2011, 11:03:04 AM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.
CAMSFC actually wanted 60 million originally, see Stockport Express : Cash for new college building withdrawn (http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1126132_cash_for_new_college_building_withdrawn), so they'll have to considerably scale back their development plans I guess.

They already have considerably scaled back their development plans. The original plan was to entirely redevelop the Hibbert Lane site, involving new buildings. The new plan is to add to Buxton Lane.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!
Either that's speculation on your part, or you've got some well-placed inside knowledge Dave?

CAMSFC have already stated that the revenue they receive from the sale of the Hibbert Lane site will be used to redevelop Buxton Lane. This new speculation is entirely fictional and intended merely to create FUD.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 11:15:53 AM

I think some may not take what CAMSFC says as gospel Harry, given their shenanigans over the Hibbert Lane site.  You may disagree but if MIA activists want to explore their intentions for the Buxton Lane site, they should certainly do so, if only to ensure that CAMSFC's intentions are fully transparent and open to scrutiny.  For those of us that disagree with a supermarket on Hibbert lane, and to be clear, I do oppose it, MIA are doing a fantastic job.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 27, 2011, 11:51:48 AM
CAMSFC have already stated that the revenue they receive from the sale of the Hibbert Lane site will be used to redevelop Buxton Lane. This new speculation is entirely fictional and intended merely to create FUD.

I'm only working from the latest-available minutes from the CAMSFC Estates committee, see copy of them here, on the College's site (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf).  

It's regrettable that the minutes for later meetings have not been published yet : their release would certainly reduce the opportunity for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt).

Quote from: CAMSFC Estates Committee Meeting 17th June 2010, published December 2010
There appeared  to be three clear avenues to follow in the short and long term, briefly summarised as:
  • Try to obtain planning consent for development at Cheadle.  The cost of planning consultants was estimated at £25 - £30 k, although this was subject to confirmation and had the potential to be more. A tender process would be involved.
  • Continue discussions with the Local Authority about the possibility of moving to a single site. The risk associated with moving to one site was that there could be a need to borrow significant amounts of additional funds.
  • Investigate options for the Marple campus. Initially any consultancy fees could be kept to a minimum.

Estates Committee agreed that the College should move forward in a way that did not prejudice the final view taken. Dialogue would continue with the Local Authority. The Corporation would need to be sure that all the proposed options were being reviewed thoroughly.

The Committee recommended for approval by Corporation that the Estates Strategy be progressed as detailed in the three options recommended by Principalship.
The recommendation of the Committee would be reported back to the consultants.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 12:30:36 PM
If we can reverse that flow, so that we residents do our 'big shop' here, and also attract new shoppers from neighbouring areas,

This suggests trips to the potential supermarket being done in cars.

but others would open, attracted to the town by the increased 'footfall'.

Therefore I don't think it's correct to suggest an increase in 'footfall' for the shops in the precinct.  I would imagine that any supermarket would restrict the time you could park up in their car park so it's just speculation that people would get in their car, drive in to Marple centre, and shop again. I think your post does suggest a big increase in traffic.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on August 27, 2011, 12:32:47 PM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!

The Aquinas development cost 42 million .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 27, 2011, 12:56:04 PM
Smithy 166 the reason why there was no likes, was because it was a closed group with invites only it has now been changed to a open group with you can click on like.
 We are sick of hearing the no to tesco and asda and feel that it needs to be said that you have no right in saying that all of marple don't want a supermarket. To have a fair point across on Saturday when you have been doing have your petition it would of been fair if you had had one for yes to supermarket to give it chance.

Just wondering how many that have said no to the supermarket actually shop in marple at the coop or do they go out of marple to do a big shop at that said shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Yes, it would mean more traffic in Marple, and there would inevitably need to be some road works to deal with that. On the other hand, there would be some easing of congestion elsewhere (Hazel Grove, Bredbury etc), as many of us will stop driving out of Marple to do our shopping.

Re the college's development plans, that's an interesting reminder above of the options which were considered by the college, and in particular that consolidation of the Cheadle and Marple campuses on to a single site seems to have been ruled out on cost grounds. The notion that the college may move away from Marple is a red herring!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 01:07:20 PM
Amazon, thanks for the correction. I was told it was 15 million, but your sum seems much more likely!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 27, 2011, 01:10:39 PM
CAMSFC have already stated that the revenue they receive from the sale of the Hibbert Lane site will be used to redevelop Buxton Lane. This new speculation is entirely fictional and intended merely to create FUD.

I'm only working from the latest-available minutes from the CAMSFC Estates committee, see copy of them here, on the College's site (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf).  

It's regrettable that the minutes for later meetings have not been published yet : their release would certainly reduce the opportunity for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt).

Those minutes are over a year old.

Why not take heed of the statement issued by the Chair of Governors earlier this month, where he said 'There is no doubt that the Marple campus of Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College is in need of urgent investment and we must sell the land at Hibbert Lane to afford this investment'. There is no ambiguity there. They intend to sell Hibbert Lane in order to invest in Buxton Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 01:43:49 PM
Yes, it would mean more traffic in Marple, and there would inevitably need to be some road works to deal with that. On the other hand, there would be some easing of congestion elsewhere (Hazel Grove, Bredbury etc), as many of us will stop driving out of Marple to do our shopping.

So we should accept the proposed supermarket and traffic issues as we will be helping to address traffic elsewhere in Stockport?  Sorry, but accepting that there would be increased traffic, congestion, and therefore the associated problems of ratrunning etc and then justifying it because we would be easing traffic in other areas, just doesn't wash.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 01:46:54 PM
To have a fair point across on Saturday when you have been doing have your petition it would of been fair if you had had one for yes to supermarket to give it chance.

Start a petition/campaign then, why should those opposed to the supermarket do the job of those in favour?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 27, 2011, 02:21:39 PM
I can't agree with marplexile that the town is 'dying' - far from it: I've lived here for 27 years and the town and its shops are better now than at any time during that period.

This comment, that Marple's shops are better now, got me thinking of all the shops that have disappeared. The ones that spring to mind, working from the west of the District Centre, are:

DownTown - cane furniture
Frank Hutchinsons - butcher
Stiffs - grocer & greengrocer
Joyce Gorman - dresses
Barrets - off license
Arnie's - hardware
Meakins - butcher
Fishmonger
J.H.Neal - greengrocer
Wrights - bakers
La Femme Chique - bridal gowns
West Coast Wines - off license
Chocolate Box - sweet shop
Marple Arch - furnishings
Mulligans - boxes, buckets, etc
Television & Radio shop
Artists supplies
M&S seconds - clothing
Hanburys
John's Super Save - discount toiletries
Sweet & Chocolate shop
Plan it travel - travel agent
First Choice Travel - travel agent
Clarks - shoes
Presents - glassware & ornaments
High Class shoes - shoes
Lighting shop
Gainsborough galleries - art & artist supplies

I'm sure I've missed quite a few, and these are probably not in the correct sequence. In some cases I can remember the shop but not its name.

What have we got to replace this lot? A few deli/cafes, pound shop, second hand shop and charity shops. And lots of empty shops.

When you look what we've lost, can anyone really say that its now better?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 27, 2011, 05:10:00 PM
I left the stall today at 2.30 pm  and we had even by that time collected over 700 signatures and people were still signing!  Not bad at all for a bank holiday weekend is it  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 27, 2011, 05:28:11 PM
Quote
a new supermarket on Hibbert Lane could give a massive boost to Marple. As we all know, a good proportion of the 23,000 of us who live here do our main supermarket shop elsewhere, and yes, I plead guilty too!

If we can reverse that flow, so that we residents do our 'big shop' here, and also attract new shoppers from neighbouring areas, I believe we could begin to witness a revitalised town centre. Yes, some businesses would close because they can't compete with Tesco/Asda, but others would open, attracted to the town by the increased 'footfall'.

This section of a post on this topic is contradictory. If people shop elsewhere because they cannot get what they want in Marple currently, why would they walk 400 to 500 yards to a more depleted central area to shop for goods or services they can't buy in a Tesco or Asda situated in Hibbert Lane? The only way that would work would be a smaller groceries only outlet situated in the town itself.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplenewbie on August 27, 2011, 06:09:55 PM
I left the stall today at 2.30 pm  and we had even by that time collected over 700 signatures and people were still signing!  Not bad at all for a bank holiday weekend is it  ???

700 that's brilliant! How many in total now?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplenewbie on August 27, 2011, 06:21:49 PM
To have a fair point across on Saturday when you have been doing have your petition it would of been fair if you had had one for yes to supermarket to give it chance.

Start a petition/campaign then, why should those opposed to the supermarket do the job of those in favour?

If there are people who are "pro" then it is only fair that they should organise their own campaign. If there are enough of them they shouldn't have any problems. Having spoken to several people locally I know that there are those who have previously been in favour of a new supermarket but who have changed their minds after having read the lealets and spoken to campaigners about the impact this would have on Marple. So the "pros" may need to get their skates on!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 27, 2011, 06:27:35 PM
700 that's brilliant! How many in total now?

It was actually 850 by the end of today, so ball-park figures are 3,850 plus 1,167 on-line (some of whom may also have signed the paper version).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 27, 2011, 08:13:16 PM
I heard today that the pro supemarket people on FaceBbook think that the Marple in action group are against another supermarket in Marple.Most people are not and agree the co-op is too expensive and needs competition.The posters say no to a supermarket on Hibbert Lane!!We don't want our town killing off with a huge supermarket.A new supermarket doen't need to be massive to give us better prices and more choice.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on August 27, 2011, 09:08:23 PM
i walked through Marple this afternoon and saw 3 people approached to sign who refused,  personally i dont mind the supermarket as its pros outweighs its cons, also i watched the protest march and recognised about 2 or 3 people that i knew,I  am Marple born and bred I work in Marple so why didn't I recognise anyone else Marple isn't the small village you keep making out.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on August 27, 2011, 09:28:16 PM
i walked through Marple this afternoon and saw 3 people approached to sign who refused,  personally i dont mind the supermarket as its pros outweighs its cons, also i watched the protest march and recognised about 2 or 3 people that i knew,I  am Marple born and bred I work in Marple so why didn't I recognise anyone else Marple isn't the small village you keep making out.

 You saw three people who refused vs the 860 have been more than happy to sign the petition today? Hardly a comparison. I collected some signatures today and was surprised by the number of people who visit Marple from other areas who emphatically do NOT want this development. I spoke to a couple from Hazel Grove who told me that they come here regularly because they like the shopping centre with all the different little shops and they talked at length about their dismay at the impact of having big supermarkets built in their area. I also spoke to people from High Lane and New Mills who felt equally as strongly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 27, 2011, 09:34:00 PM
i walked through Marple this afternoon and saw 3 people approached to sign who refused,  personally i dont mind the supermarket as its pros outweighs its cons, also i watched the protest march and recognised about 2 or 3 people that i knew,I  am Marple born and bred I work in Marple so why didn't I recognise anyone else Marple isn't the small village you keep making out.

I was on the march and I recognised dozens and I've only lived here 22 years. There were people I see at carnivals, food festivals and other local events, in pubs or just shopping in the town centre.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on August 27, 2011, 10:15:42 PM
Can Marple in Action say whether they value having the sixth-form college in Marple? Because, if they succeed in blocking the college's development and the college WERE to decide to consolidate on the Cheadle site instead then:
(a) Marple's 17- and 18-year-olds will have a very long way to travel; (a Marple-Hall sixth form isn't an option; they are at capacity already);
(b) all those pie and sandwich shops relying on student footfall during the week will lose it;
(c) you will have two sites on Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane left to the developers or just to rot.
Then MIA will very effectively have damaged the community, small businesses and Hibbert-Lane/Buxton-Lane environment that they apparently set out to protect.

Marple has a much larger population now than when the "Marple Centre" boundaries were drawn and the present co-op was built; there is no logic to trying to keep its total retail outlet to a 1950's size. An additional supermarket of comparable size to the college buildings on Hibbert Lane would not impinge on any of Marple's beautiful waterways or green spaces, would be closer to the geographic centre of the present-day residential housing, and would not in any way prevent people shopping, socialising or just enjoying a quiet cup of coffee in the existing precinct.

Alternatively, Marple could lose its 6th-form provision.


 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 27, 2011, 10:43:50 PM
Oh wouldn't it just be in the centre of residential housing?On two counts!Lyme Grove,Mount Drive,Hibbert Lane and Cotefield for one, and Buxton Lane, Peacefield, Cross Lane, Carver Road and once again Hibbert Lane on the second. Sorry if i've left any road out.Quite a way from Hollins Green Road wouldn't you say?I'm allright Jack,springs to mind. who would run a cafe/coffe shop on a dead street?Perhaps the colleges intentions were always to take the money and run?After all the principal who is selling is retiring soon,maybe to Stoke where I believe she lives or somewhere a little more exotic?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 27, 2011, 10:52:18 PM
Oh wouldn't it just be in the centre of residential housing?On two counts!Lyme Grove,Mount Drive,Hibbert Lane and Cotefield for one, and Buxton Lane, Peacefield, Cross Lane, Carver Road and once again Hibbert Lane on the second. Sorry if i've left any road out.Quite a way from Hollins Green Road wouldn't you say?I'm allright Jack,springs to mind. who would run a cafe/coffe shop on a dead street?Perhaps the colleges intentions were always to take the money and run?After all the principal who is selling is retiring soon,maybe to Stoke where I believe she lives or somewhere a little more exotic?

If my salary was over £100k plus a further £15k going into my pension pot each year on top of that, Stoke wouldn't be top of my retirement destination list  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 27, 2011, 11:07:09 PM
I was timed out on this one Neil as I was trying to modify.What I wanted to say was that whoever you are.Low income especially,middle income and high earners Dont suck up to them,letting them in is playing right in to their greedy,couldn't give a toss hands as they go home to their real mansions all over the world. The type not seen around these parts!Wake up and smell the coffee,be it instant or filter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 27, 2011, 11:19:49 PM
I heard today that the pro supemarket people on FaceBbook think that the Marple in action group are against another supermarket in Marple.Most people are not and agree the co-op is too expensive and needs competition.The posters say no to a supermarket on Hibbert Lane!!We don't want our town killing off with a huge supermarket.A new supermarket doen't need to be massive to give us better prices and more choice.

But many of them want exactly that if you read the posts and listen to those for a supermarket, a big supermarket where they can get electricals/clothes etc and not have to travel into Stockport etc. is what they want. A small one (perhaps more central) will still mean that the Co-op is the main supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 27, 2011, 11:51:50 PM
Yes JMC,If a successful competitor was to take root,the co-op could close,it has been known,then a major electrical store could move in.then perhaps a shoe shop,alternative clothes shop, we could have everything we need.But sadly the college could quite selfishly sell to a major supemarket planning permission agreed :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 28, 2011, 01:53:41 AM
Can Marple in Action say whether they value having the sixth-form college in Marple? Because, if they succeed in blocking the college's development and the college WERE to decide to consolidate on the Cheadle site instead then:
(a) Marple's 17- and 18-year-olds will have a very long way to travel; (a Marple-Hall sixth form isn't an option; they are at capacity already);
(b) all those pie and sandwich shops relying on student footfall during the week will lose it;
(c) you will have two sites on Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane left to the developers or just to rot.

Being as Your questions are about the "youth" of marple going to the marple college I feel I can answer, As I i'm presently a student of CAMSFC (just enrolled).

Answer to part A.
As far as i'm aware the cheadle campus is in no way large enough to accommodate the students on the Marple campuses. There are approximately 2,000 students on the Marple campus. as apposed to around 1,500 at cheadle. So the college would have to rebuild the cheadle site AGAIN to accommodate the extra students. And even if the college were to regenerate cheadle, they couldn't do it without first selling the Marple campus. Now, it doesn't take a genius to work out that if they were rebuilding cheadle, and had no Marple, there would be nowere for the students to be taught.

Answer to part B.
You are aware that the various food shops sell to people other than students from the college, right? From what I've seen the bulk of the students at the college use the on-site facilities when it comes to purchasing food, so even if the college were to go, the impact of those food shops would be minimal.

Answer to part C.
As I have stated before, the college would have to sell the land to a developer, not just leave it rotting, as they would require the funding to improve cheadle. So the sites would not just be "left to rot". And, in-case you haven't already noticed, the college is attempting to sell the hibbert lane site to developers anyway (technically), which basically makes your argument about leaving the sites to the developers null and void.

Apologises for the various spelling and grammatical errors, my hand are freezing, and as a result have seized up.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 28, 2011, 08:21:26 AM
Moorendman asks 'If people shop elsewhere because they cannot get what they want in Marple currently, why would they walk 400 to 500 yards to a more depleted central area to shop for goods or services they can't buy in a Tesco or Asda situated in Hibbert Lane?'

Let me try to explain how the numbers might work, and why I don't accept that the centre of the town would necessarily become 'depleted'.

We know from reports of the college's property consultant's findings, and indeed from our own intuition, that more Marple residents go elsewhere to do their supermarket shopping than do it in Marple. So purely for illustrative purposes, and using nice round numbers, let's assume that out of the 23,000 residents, there are 10,000 supermarket visits per week, and that of these, 4,000 are in Marple and 6,000 are elsewhere. And let's also assume that of the 4,000 visiting the Co-op, 25 percent (1,000) go to at least one other (local) shop on the same trip.

OK. Now if a new Tesco or Asda appears in Hibbert Lane, let's assume that two-thirds (4,000) of those currently shopping outside Marple shop at Hibbert Lane instead. And let's assume that the Co-op loses 50 percent (2,000) of its customers to the new supermarket. That's 6,000 customers per week at Tesco/Asda so far. On top of these, we need to add visiting shoppers from neighbouring areas (Romiley, Disley, New Mills, Offerton etc) - maybe 2,000 weekly? That produces 8,000 weekly shops in total at Hibbert Lane.

Now let's try to estimate 'spin-off shoppers' - those who visit at least one other (local) shop during their supermarket trip. We'va already assumed that 25 percent of Co-op shoppers may do this, so that produces 500 of the Co-op's depleted number of 2,000.  Now Hibbert Lane is a bit further from other shops than the Co-op is, so let's assume a cautious 10 percent (800) of Tesco/Asda shoppers also visit at least one local shop as well. That gives a weekly total of 1,300 'spin-off shoppers' in Marple - a 30 percent increase over the current estimate of 1,000.

This is all speculation, of course - just like almost everything else on this thread :D And all the above numbers are purely for illustration. But what I believe it shows is that although a new supermarket in Hibbert Lane would take some business away from other shops, this could be more tha offset by completely new business coming from people shopping in Marple who did not previously do so.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 28, 2011, 10:16:53 AM
This is all speculation, of course

This is the key part of your post Dave.  You state that the numbers are just for illustration,  but then you argue that your 'illustration' is somewhat of a case study for the positive impact of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
 
But what I believe it shows is that although a new supermarket in Hibbert Lane would take some business away from other shops, this could be more tha offset by completely new business coming from people shopping in Marple who did not previously do so.

It's entirely positive for us all to argue different points but the numbers you used are meaningless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 28, 2011, 10:52:45 AM
This is all speculation, of course........

But isn't that the point, nearly everything so far is speculation, including the chief concern of the destruction of the Marple community - a lot of the the No campaign seesm to be based on 'fear of the dark' i.e. this is new, therefore it must be bad. I'm still to be swayed, by either yes or no, because I still don't know what level of development we are looking at.

What I can say is that I personally do travel out of Marple for my weekly big shop and as a consequence don't use the local shops as much as I would probably like. If I could save my 20 minute car journey out of Marple and 20 minutes back, I would be much more inclined to nip to the butchers for some decent local meat, bakers for pies, etc as part of my bigger shop.......

Particularly if the new supermarket was an ASDA, as I would definitely want to use the Marple shops for a bit of quality!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 28, 2011, 11:31:14 AM
Yes JMC,If a successful competitor was to take root,the co-op could close,it has been known,then a major electrical store could move in.then perhaps a shoe shop,alternative clothes shop, we could have everything we need.But sadly the college could quite selfishly sell to a major supemarket planning permission agreed :'(

That is possible but then that scenario would involved job losses etc (if the Co-op closed). I don't think a major electric store would work in Marple, I see too many shops open and then close because the pattern of people's shopping has changed (internet, going into a large town with more choice etc.) Same with shoe shop etc. etc. In essence I think it is because they cannot compete in price and also because for many people a one stop shop is easier if they are busy working etc. I feel that is why many people want a big supermarket and not a Sainsbury's Local sized one. They want to be able to buy things in one place. Problem with that is that some shops will lose out if the items sold are alo cheaper which is inevitable with the major supermarket's buying power.


I do my main shopping outside of Marple, online shopping, but we top up in Marple and use many local shops. From my point of view things are fine as they are. But putting myself in the shoes of a young family on low income with no car/internet (which we were ourselves when we started out) it is quite difficult to do a weeks shop cheaply in marple compared to going to ASDA etc. For many of these people they have to rely on other people for a lift or a bus (with alot of bags that is a nightmare) and coule be more independant if a supermarket were here. I think we all need to see it from that angle too.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 11:53:04 AM
Hi Heather I was born and bred in MARPLE and I knew more or less everyone either personally or by sight .  What I do although find strange is  quite a few people on the yes face book page  have signed our petition against a major supermarket and a few on that site are personal friends of mine who have also signed the MIA against a supermarket petition and one person is the brother of one of the founder members of MIA.  But having said all that I do not know how face book works and it could just be an error but I hope I don't pop up on there lol  ;D
Seriously though,  I also think that we would all benefit from a smaller supermarket, but in the town centre, not in the middle of a residential area. MIA are not opposed to another supermarket in MARPLE we are opposed to where the proposed site will be.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 28, 2011, 12:09:25 PM
As I repeatedly emphasised, Steptoe, the numbers I used were purely for illustration. What matters is the underlying point: that the new Hibbert Lane supermarket could very well have a 'swings and roundabouts' effect on the other Marple shops. Some will close, but others will open in their place, because there could very well be a net increase in 'footfall' because overall there are likely to be more shoppers in Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 28, 2011, 02:12:20 PM
miss marple whats with the capitals, do you really need to do that?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 28, 2011, 03:57:11 PM
Just to also let you know that to have peoples names on the facbook group they would of had to join and put that they liked the idea of the supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 06:44:10 PM
miss Marple whats with the capitals, do you really need to do that?
Hi Susan no I don't need to put MARPLE or HIBBERT in capitals but for some reason best known to itself my iPad always turns those two words into capitals.  So this afternoon I have been practicing and guess what I now can write Marple and Hibbert like this.   I'm a twenty first century girl now !   lol  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
Just to also let you know that to have peoples names on the facbook group they would of had to join and put that they liked the idea of the supermarket.

Oh sorry must be my mistake I thought  someone had asked to be taken off the yes face book page but like I say I don't understand face book  :-\

The only thing I will say about that face book page is that you are making me more famous than I deserve lol.   I hope they have a good solicitor for when I sue for slander.  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 28, 2011, 07:19:56 PM
sorry miss marple but the only names metioned on there are david hoyle and that was just about a conversation that the bloke was having,  other than that there are no names metioned,

but you might be able to help us,apparently a lady was told this:- a lady was telling me that the sorting office is closing down and they was looking at sainsburys having it for a sainsburys local, but im not sure how true that is. Can you please tell us if its true or just whispers
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 10:02:13 PM
Latest FOI Response:
Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).

Here's a pic of the letter, for anyone without a PDF viewer.  Click on it for a larger view.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 10:57:41 PM
The above was information we received from an Freedom of Information request.  It's  from Paul Lawrence Stockport Planning to the College.  As you can see there is an opportunity for a supermarket to be built on the Chadwick St sorting office site. 
What people must understand is that
The  land at Hibbert Lane was a gift for the people of Marple for education
The college is a private business nothing to do with the Local Authority
The college left applying for funding too late so now has to sell the Hibbert Lane site due to financial difficulties
The Buxton Lane site was also a gift for the people of Marple to be used for education
The long term future for our children is at risk if the college decide to sell both colleges and take the money and run ploughing into say the Jackson Lane School (which is now looking more than just a rumour )
The college is selling the land on Hibbert Lane for 12 Million which is a lot of money to me and you, but for the amount of improvements require at Buxton Lane it's a drop in the ocean which leads me to believe that once they sold the Hibbert Lane site Buxton Lane would be the next sale
There is also talk of Marple Hall becoming an academy which means that students will stay there until they are eighteen, leaving CAMSFC with a lower intake.
I have no business interests whatsoever, all I am interested in is the increased amount of traffic, which a supermarket of that size would bring.  Data obtained gives an indication  that a supermarket of that size would require. 100 cars per hour in and out which would total 200 per hour plus the additional lorries and associated service vehicles.  Our roads can not take this amount of traffic and I am fearful for our children's health with the additional pollution and road safety
So why would anyone want to see a private company sell the land that was given to us because the college mismanaged their finances.  If you or I were in debt I am flipping sure no one would bail us out, so why oh why should the college be allowed to profit from us.
The principals salary alone is around £120.000 , she lives in Stoke and none of the governors live local, so
it's  not really as simple as just saying we don't want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane it's about a private company taking the rip out of us and laughing all the way to the bank. 
Well if I can stop this private company taking the mickey out of us I will and it's up to you all to form your own opinions. But please before you do look at the evidence gathered so far and also take a look at the Tescopoly web site .


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 28, 2011, 11:24:50 PM
Miss M, you write 'The long term future for our children is at risk if the college decide to sell both colleges and take the money and run ploughing into say the Jackson Lane School (which is now looking more than just a rumour )'

This is a very serious allegation, which if true could have a profound effect on the education of our youngsters. If this improbable scenario really is 'more than just a rumour', it would be most helpful to all of us if you could give us the source of your information so that we can assess its reliability for ourselves.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 28, 2011, 11:59:22 PM
Dear miss marple

I understand completly that you have some very strong opinions, and although you do make some very fair points, there are always two sides to every argument, and it is now become a 2 sided argument. With people saying there will be alot more traffic, small businesses will close, more pollution etc ...and  then there are the people saying that there will be less  traffic due to the fact people can walk, and the traffic would be slightly reduced, people are saying they will still shop in the smaller shops due to the fact they like the quality, atmosphere, the price etc, and also there is pollution everywhere you go these days, we do not live in the hills, we live in a busy town so we are expected to surrounded by vehicles.
There are lots of different views, and i have listed a few below

I live on the main road and the amount of busses and HGVs that pass my house already does not affect me.
As for child safety, it is up to the parents to teach their children the green cross code....My son who has just turned 4 knows he should never cross the road without waiting for me, his father or the adult looking after him and he know we wait for the green man at the lights ...(even my  just turned 2 year old has grasped this). as they get older i will be teaching them about zebra crossings, and other safe ways to cross. unfortunatly there are the small minority out there who chose to ignore the green cross code and therefore thats when accidents happen. There is however, a pelican crossing on that road....right near the site....it is there for a purpose and it should be used.

I personally beleive marple would benefit from a supermarket....Not a giant one like the tesco in stockport or the asda in hyde, but a fairly sized one that could accomodate all the things people would need.
My husband and i are on a low income and have two young boys to care for...and after buying essensials for them (nappies, wipes, special milk for my lactose/soya intolerant son...which costs £10 alone) there doesnt seem to be enough money left to do a full weeks shop in the co-op.
We do like to get our meat from the butchers, but we can only afford to get this once a month to last a few meals, we get our frozen and milk in iceland as its still cheaper than the co-op, but then we either have to put the burden on family and friends to take us to the supermarket or get as much as we possibly can with the money we have left in the co-op.

I beleive that the people of marple should be able to have a choice about where we shop, seeing as we get a choice with hairdressers, cafes, public houses, fruit and veg shops, butchers etc.

Like i said there are always Two sides to every story and all those petitioning against the supermarket will have a view of their own.....but i bet alot of them will get at least 1 item from the supermarket if it were to come to marple.

Applologies for any spelling mistakes, i am very tired and have been waiting for admin to approve me onto this site so i could voice my opinion.

Oh  and as you are now aware, facebook has a page, and a group. I was the Original Creator of the group, and i am admin on the page....the reason i set those up was to hear views of people who are FOR the supermarket, as all i was hearing and seeing was 'NO'. I thought id would be nice to hear some yes opinions and why people are in favor. it has been a hit so far (obviously not as big as the no campaign) but it is early days, and i hope to hear some varied views from both sides of this campaign.....that way people can have a choice on what they would like to vote for. These pages were not set up to slag anyone off...and if anything is seen it will be removed, as it there to show that there is a side of marple that DO want the supermarket  :)

Pink text changed to default colour. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 12:07:34 AM
can we please use non-coloured fonts?
I can't read what you've typed, so i've translated it here :

Pink text changed to default in original post so quote removed. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 12:11:11 AM
Thank you...That was a mistake on my account....i didnt think the pink would be that pale....  will not be using it again lol
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 29, 2011, 08:42:06 AM
Well said mum of two, i am all for it,even though i live in Dukinfield and before you all jump on me for that, My family live in Marple and i still do my shopping in marple at Icelands and Wilsons.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on August 29, 2011, 09:25:24 AM
It's good to see some of the new people here who are now voicing their opinion. Healthy debate is good for all.

I think one of the things that people need to remember is that the Marple in Action group are NOT opposed to a new supermarket. they ARE opposed to it being built on the Hibbert Lane site. It is not approved for retail development, only housing development.

Personally, I don't mind another supermarket to give the co-op some competition and to help bring their prices down. Good local shops will survive. The quality of service and produce you get from (for example) Whites & Archers is something that a supermarket will not match.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:22:46 AM
It's good to see some of the new people here who are now voicing their opinion. Healthy debate is good for all.

I think one of the things that people need to remember is that the Marple in Action group are NOT opposed to a new supermarket. they ARE opposed to it being built on the Hibbert Lane site. It is not approved for retail development, only housing development.

Personally, I don't mind another supermarket to give the co-op some competition and to help bring their prices down. Good local shops will survive. The quality of service and produce you get from (for example) Whites & Archers is something that a supermarket will not match.

The thing is, nomatter where the supermarket is built, there will always be people objecting to the same topics they are objecting about now (more traffic, pollution etc)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
We have now got a copy of the TV coverage of the March last Sat and it is hoped that it can be linked to this site, well I hope so , I am sure someone could do this.  WHAT A TEAM !!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tina on August 29, 2011, 11:10:42 AM
It's good to see some of the new people here who are now voicing their opinion. Healthy debate is good for all.

I think one of the things that people need to remember is that the Marple in Action group are NOT opposed to a new supermarket. they ARE opposed to it being built on the Hibbert Lane site. It is not approved for retail development, only housing development.

Personally, I don't mind another supermarket to give the co-op some competition and to help bring their prices down. Good local shops will survive. The quality of service and produce you get from (for example) Whites & Archers is something that a supermarket will not match.

The thing is, nomatter where the supermarket is built, there will always be people objecting to the same topics they are objecting about now (more traffic, pollution etc)



I have to agree,  some of the main arguments are the extra traffic, pollution and loss of shops. So if a supermarket comes to Marple... lets say for example the council sells the 'reck' at arkwright rd and tesco/asda build there... are you all saying you will be happy with that and no protests, petitions etc etc???  I doubt it because the same would be a issue to you.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 11:17:20 AM
Forgot to mention !   Lots of people were asking to purchase t shirts on Sat but we have run out  :'(.    Good news is we have had more printed and they will be on the stall this Sat  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 29, 2011, 11:17:42 AM
As I repeatedly emphasised, Steptoe, the numbers I used were purely for illustration. What matters is the underlying point: that the new Hibbert Lane supermarket could very well have a 'swings and roundabouts' effect on the other Marple shops. Some will close, but others will open in their place, because there could very well be a net increase in 'footfall' because overall there are likely to be more shoppers in Marple.

Dave, you have hit the nail on the head.  In your opinion, there 'could very well be' an increase in shoppers, however, there 'could very well be' a decrease, that's the sum of it.  To use figures in a lengthy post looks to me as if you are trying to legitimise what was, and remains, pure speculation.   As stated, the numbers are meaningless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:22:40 AM
I would like to add to that by saying that in my opinion, people who have cars add to traffic and position so It is so hypocritical of anyone who drives to complain about that.
Also do not believe that small bussiness will be greatly affected. I know that I will continue to support the shops I already support, the only place that will be losing my custom is co op. This is the same for many other people I have spoken to.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:24:42 AM
*polution not position
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 11:57:05 AM
*polution not position

MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 29, 2011, 12:23:13 PM
I have said on several posts that we need to see all sides so it is good that new people have joined. I myself am still making my mind up in many ways. My main concerns are traffic etc. But i am thus far not involved with any campaign etc. There is a big group of people in the middle who are not sure either way or don't want to be identified on either 'side' as they have friends who own shops etc and don't want to fall out!

I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it. I am lucky that i can afford online shopping now but before that I had to rely on family etc. for lifts, I would have much preferred a cheaper local shop as hated being a burden on people. Iceland is good but you can't get everything there like you could in Asda etc. That's why the campaign can look hypocritical if those on the march etc. are older people who have cars (this is the comments I have heard from friends etc.) and can afford to choose to go to other areas to Tesco etc but are 'stopping' those who can't from having a cheaper food shop. With the economy etc., more people are on a budget. Saving £20 can mean being able to use the heating or a child being able to have hot dinners etc.

Another thing is that Tina made a good point. Some people are against any supermarket and have said we have enough shops, the Co-op is great etc etc. Local store owners would probably also object to a store opening on chadwick street or anywhere else. It would still potentially cause traffic and put other shops out of business. What if a Poundland etc. wanted to open? That could put alot of shops out of business. I understand people want to keep Marple as it is but sadly the economy has changed immeasurably and most people do shop at a supermarket outside of their local independant shops. However, people do top up in their local village and many older people also prefer to carry on shopping there as well as those with the choice/money to do so so there is still plenty of scope for a thriving precient.

The hazel grove message board have been talking about this issue and many were calling Marple people hypocrites for being happy to use hazel grove superstores (and so not helping marple shops) but not wanting one in their back yard.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Pink Panther on August 29, 2011, 12:40:12 PM
good points there JMC .

wage increases do not reflect the cost of living, our weekly shop costs us a small fortune, I did a well known supermarkets price challenge , and my weekly shop was £16.00 cheaper than in Sainsburys,  £11 pounds cheaper than Morrisons , so goodness knows how much cheaper than the Co Op it would be .  £16 pounds a week over a month is a lot of money to me .

I did mention that it would be good if the co op was taken over, but this was met by one person suggesting that a much cheaper supermarket  would put the small shops out of business too because they couldnt compete ? ( just one persons opinion I know, but I can see thier point ) .

I have not signed any petition for or against  because of where I am employed  it is not in my interest ,   BUT if there was a supermarket to be built behind my house, I would be upset about it , I love where I live, and I love what is behind my house  , and if this is possible at the college site when documentation clearly shows it should not be used for this purpose, then really it could happen anywhere :(




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 01:11:35 PM
I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it.

Well, the Greengocers sell free-range eggs at 80p per half dozen cheaper than Tesco & Sainsbury. Bread at Archers is better value than Tesco. Iceland sells a wide range of frozen food cheaper than Tesco, the Greengrocers have cheaper prices & far fresher produce than Tesco so it lasts longer. The Pound plus shop sells lots of cheaper things than Tesco. Bargain Booze has some great beer offers. THe Butchers are far fresher & better value than Tesco.

point countered
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 29, 2011, 01:22:50 PM
I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it.

Well, the Greengocers sell free-range eggs at 80p per half dozen cheaper than Tesco & Sainsbury. Bread at Archers is better value than Tesco. Iceland sells a wide range of frozen food cheaper than Tesco, the Greengrocers have cheaper prices & far fresher produce than Tesco so it lasts longer. The Pound plus shop sells lots of cheaper things than Tesco. Bargain Booze has some great beer offers. THe Butchers are far fresher & better value than Tesco.

point countered

I don't think so. I have several children including a toddler and dragging them/him round all those shops would be a sheer nightmare! You are also assuming we all have cars to carry it all home or the time to do several trips? Much easier to do it all in one place especially if you have food allergies etc, do they do gluten free bread cheaply at archers? Is it easily accessible? One size does not fit all so your point doesn't counter the argument whatsoever I am afraid.  Also dual income families don't have the luxury of a whole day to do their shopping. Pound plus is not really cheap at all but I guess price is relative depending on your income. Iceland is good but mostly junk/high fat foods-no gluten free range etc.

Also, if as you say everything is cheaper in marple, then why would a new supermarket be a threat? That doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 01:45:24 PM
I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it.

Well, the Greengocers sell free-range eggs at 80p per half dozen cheaper than Tesco & Sainsbury. Bread at Archers is better value than Tesco. Iceland sells a wide range of frozen food cheaper than Tesco, the Greengrocers have cheaper prices & far fresher produce than Tesco so it lasts longer. The Pound plus shop sells lots of cheaper things than Tesco. Bargain Booze has some great beer offers. THe Butchers are far fresher & better value than Tesco.

point countered

I don't think so. I have several children including a toddler and dragging them/him round all those shops would be a sheer nightmare! You are also assuming we all have cars to carry it all home or the time to do several trips? Much easier to do it all in one place especially if you have food allergies etc, do they do gluten free bread cheaply at archers? Is it easily accessible? One size does not fit all so your point doesn't counter the argument whatsoever I am afraid.  Also dual income families don't have the luxury of a whole day to do their shopping. Pound plus is not really cheap at all but I guess price is relative depending on your income. Iceland is good but mostly junk/high fat foods-no gluten free range etc.

Also, if as you say everything is cheaper in marple, then why would a new supermarket be a threat? That doesn't make sense.

It depends where you live, the walk from Poundplus via Iceland to Archers is no further than a lap around Tesco. Then it's the walk home which, as I say, depends on where you live.

I've no idea about gluton-free bread, how much is it in Co-op / Archers v Tesco? Is it not available?

I agree that Marple traders need to have a flexible trading hours policy, late-night Thursday etc.

As for why a supermarket is a threat. It's all about perception & laziness (as you've touched on). People are getting lazier & lazier and they are passing this onto their kids. If they can park in their parent & child spot outside the front door, they will. It's no wonder that kids are so obese. The first thing I'd do give car parks a tax break for putting parent & child spots at the furthest point away from the entrance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 01:52:28 PM
We have now got a copy of the TV coverage of the March last Sat and it is hoped that it can be linked to this site, well I hope so , I am sure someone could do this.  WHAT A TEAM !!!!!
Before you upload the footage to youtube or publish it make sure that the broadcaster has given you permission to use it, they can sometimes be a little "touchy" about things like that :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 02:08:59 PM
More graffite has appeared on the side of the shop facing Littlewoods Butchers saying Vote Tesco ? The fools don't even know that the college preferred favourite is Asda who also came first in the second round of bids.  I hope these people understand that removing this costs them money by way of additional community charges Doh !   The police made it very clear at the area committee meeting that when they find who is doing this they are going to apply the maximum charges! So a supermarket coming or not coming to MARPLE may just be something they read about in their prison cell  :D.  So here's hoping they are caught soon  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 29, 2011, 02:09:29 PM
MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....

Your post has not gone anywhere: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3735.msg17390#msg17390

Posts are not usually deleted unless they are offensive or personal attacks on others. These are usually replaced with an explanation, or the poster is PM'd. Posts can be hard to find again when the forum is so busy that is all that has happened to yours.

I'm not going to answer your question in full because it has been said over and over. Others can do that if they wish and it would be worth some of you meeting with Miss M. But, if it wasn't for Marple in Action you wouldn't have known about it until there were notices on lamposts around the Hibbert Lane site. The college have been conducting negotiations in secret (for years). They have forbidden employees to talk about what is happening and their supermarket planning advisers have told them that despite the site not being designated for retail that they would win at appeal as they are not breaking planning law. All these things are facts and Miss M will be able to show you evidence that the college has insisted that we remove from this site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 02:15:57 PM
*polution not position

MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....

Because it's a private deal. I can buy your house with the intention of building a multi-story car park on it. I will apply for planning permission and see what happens. It doesn't mean you are not allowed to sell to me.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 29, 2011, 03:07:20 PM
Dave wrote:

Quote
Now let's try to estimate 'spin-off shoppers' - those who visit at least one other (local) shop during their supermarket trip. We'va already assumed that 25 percent of Co-op shoppers may do this, so that produces 500 of the Co-op's depleted number of 2,000.  Now Hibbert Lane is a bit further from other shops than the Co-op is, so let's assume a cautious 10 percent (800) of Tesco/Asda shoppers also visit at least one local shop as well. That gives a weekly total of 1,300 'spin-off shoppers' in Marple - a 30 percent increase over the current estimate of 1,000.

This is all speculation, of course - just like almost everything else on this thread Cheesy And all the above numbers are purely for illustration. But what I believe it shows is that although a new supermarket in Hibbert Lane would take some business away from other shops, this could be more tha offset by completely new business coming from people shopping in Marple who did not previously do so.

There are lots of assumptions in your numbers Dave that simply do not stack up and whilst its tempting to dismantle them step by step , it is perhaps more useful to challenge some of the overall assumptions:

The key question is why does anyone buy goods and services from shops in Marple anyway? It is because they can't buy them at the Coop or they prefer not to make the longer journey to a larger supermarket for reasons of economy (petrol) or time. Only the very committed eschew the lures of a weekly shop at a Tesco/Asda/Sainsbury's on principle alone, most of us are guilty in some way. But there are a significant number that feel that independent shops need supporting and recognise that fatal damage is done to towns and villages is done by the big four supermarkets in particular.

Ask yourself where would a Marple food festival be without independents? Or would you prefer to enjoy a few scraps from the deli counter in a Tesco? When was the last time you recognised more than one or two faces in a superstore and when the last time you had any sort of casual conversation with another shopper? Compare and contrast that to walking around Marple.

One of the significant omissions from your analysis is the numbers of people who buy stuff in Marple from one shop when their initial destination was another shop (Excluding the Coop or any future Hibbert Lane Supermarket). For example , I go to Marple to buy some seeds from Hollins, While I am there , I buy some plant pots perhaps and then pick up some lamb chops from Whites. May as well buy a magazine from the Newsagents too and a birthday card for Auntie Christine and so it goes. By your own admission, shops will close with the arrival of any large supermarket and therefore this dynamic of one shop sale generating another sale will certainly diminish as there would be fewer shops. If I ran a bakers, newsagents, greengrocer, off licence and small electrical goods supplier in Marple I would be feeling very threatened.

Two further rhetorical questions for you Dave. Firstly what new shops do you really believe would come to Marple, bearing in mind that smaller shops are suffering loss of trade from superstores 5 or 6 miles away anyway? Secondly  if you believe that new retailers would open, would you not expect that view to be supported by a more postive attitude from the existing community of independent retailers in Marple to the potential arrival of a Tesco or Asda? I would challenge you to find a single one that would agree with your view!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 03:14:10 PM
MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....

Your post has not gone anywhere: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3735.msg17390#msg17390

Posts are not usually deleted unless they are offensive or personal attacks on others. These are usually replaced with an explanation, or the poster is PM'd. Posts can be hard to find again when the forum is so busy that is all that has happened to yours.

I'm not going to answer your question in full because it has been said over and over. Others can do that if they wish and it would be worth some of you meeting with Miss M. But, if it wasn't for Marple in Action you wouldn't have known about it until there were notices on lamposts around the Hibbert Lane site. The college have been conducting negotiations in secret (for years). They have forbidden employees to talk about what is happening and their supermarket planning advisers have told them that despite the site not being designated for retail that they would win at appeal as they are not breaking planning law. All these things are facts and Miss M will be able to show you evidence that the college has insisted that we remove from this site.

I know you say i would not have heard about it until the posters etc....but this has been rumoured for a few years now....looks like the rumours were true. If tesco/asda were to buy the land and they are declined planning permission...what happens then as all this anti-supermarket and pro-supermarket campaigning would all be for nothing...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 29, 2011, 03:48:31 PM
I know you say i would not have heard about it until the posters etc....but this has been rumoured for a few years now....looks like the rumours were true. If tesco/asda were to buy the land and they are declined planning permission...what happens then as all this anti-supermarket and pro-supermarket campaigning would all be for nothing...

The college have told MiA that they will be applying for the planning permission themselves and the supermarket offers are conditional on permission being granted. It is understood that planning permission for the Buxton Lane site is also tied up with this somehow - it would be no good if they could build a supermarket but not extend the college I suppose - but the detail of these arrangements is only fully known by the college. The objective of the MiA campaign at this stage is to get the college to change its mind and find other ways to support the development of their facilities - similar to Andrew Stunell MP and some of the LimDems Councillors, who are putting it more politely by saying the the college needs to "think again".

If planning permission is refused at appeal then the MiA objectives will have been achieved but it would be better from the MiA point of view if the plans were not submitted in the first place.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 05:09:54 PM
Hi Mum of 2 I am more than willing to meet with you and explain where we are to date.  What would be useful is if you read the Tescopoly web site and you will see what bullies supermarkets can be with SMBC planners.  Tesco lost it's battle to Poynton and a Waitrose was built, but I was informed on Sat that the Waitrose is built on the land that Tesco own, which they purchased without planning, so now they will just be waiting to come in for the kill.  Another thing Tesco are guilty of is purchasing land without planning permission, leaving it to rot for example turning it into a free carpark not maintaining it until residents are demanding something is done with the land, then they build.  All the stuff is on the thread under Asda / Tesco
I would suggest that if you are leading a campain for a supermarket on Hibbert  Lane that you bring yourself up to speed with everything, because it's a big responsibility informing people so that they can have an informed choice because once it's done no one can turn the clock back.  But having said all that I think it's fantastic that we live a democracy and are allowed to voice our opinions, so good luck in your campaign because believe me it's hard work . MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 05:23:09 PM
Hi Mum of 2 I am more than willing to meet with you and explain where we are to date.  What would be useful is if you read the Tescopoly web site and you will see what bullies supermarkets can be with SMBC planners.  Tesco lost it's battle to Poynton and a Waitrose was built, but I was informed on Sat that the Waitrose is built on the land that Tesco own, which they purchased without planning, so now they will just be waiting to come in for the kill.  Another thing Tesco are guilty of is purchasing land without planning permission, leaving it to rot for example turning it into a free carpark not maintaining it until residents are demanding something is done with the land, then they build. 


Miss M, this has to be fair enough. If the people of Poynton are snobby enough to accept a Waitrose & not a Tesco, surely it's not wrong if Tesco decide to not renew the lease for Waitrose & take over the store?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 08:04:53 PM
Hi Mum of 2 I am more than willing to meet with you and explain where we are to date.  What would be useful is if you read the Tescopoly web site and you will see what bullies supermarkets can be with SMBC planners.  Tesco lost it's battle to Poynton and a Waitrose was built, but I was informed on Sat that the Waitrose is built on the land that Tesco own, which they purchased without planning, so now they will just be waiting to come in for the kill.  Another thing Tesco are guilty of is purchasing land without planning permission, leaving it to rot for example turning it into a free carpark not maintaining it until residents are demanding something is done with the land, then they build.  All the stuff is on the thread under Asda / Tesco
I would suggest that if you are leading a campain for a supermarket on Hibbert  Lane that you bring yourself up to speed with everything, because it's a big responsibility informing people so that they can have an informed choice because once it's done no one can turn the clock back.  But having said all that I think it's fantastic that we live a democracy and are allowed to voice our opinions, so good luck in your campaign because believe me it's hard work . MM
Dear MM
At the moment we are still in talks of a campaign as there has been alot of information we have now discovered (mainly from this site) we understand how your views about the supermarket may or may not affect marple, and all the information you have got your hands on. My facebook page was set up to let people voice their opinions on why they thought it would be a good idea. It was never met to become a campaign (at first) and then things progressed and there were talks of a campaign yes but it is not final. It wold be niceto meet to share our opinions (which i think we already know lol) and you could show us with information you have.
Right now i am unsure as to whether a campaign due to the fact that if tesco/asda do buy the land and do not get permission to bulid.....it would just be a waste of our time....you on the other hand would get what you campaigned for.
If however they do get permission....we get what we want without a big campaign.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 09:36:06 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 29, 2011, 10:00:20 PM
I have read on the latest facts ( Work starts on Buxton Lane )that residents have reported that surveyors are at work.Does anybody  know if anyone asked what they were doing?I would! They could be surveying how many houses they can build on there.Lets face  it £12 million wont pay for a whole new college extention.But £12 million from the Hibbert Lane site plus a sizeable amount from the sale of Buxton Lane site could pay for a large extention to an existing out of area college.Just a thought,things don't add up or do they?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:06:19 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???


Firstly miss marple, the people of the 'yes to the supermarket campaign, want a supermarket either on hibbert lane (which seems the most likely place right now), we only want one big enough to do a family shop...and not a tesco/asda local. We do not want a tesco extra like the one in portwood....as we all know that marple is too small for a super store like that.
The People of the MIA need to understand that 'yes to the supermarket' is only at the 1st stages of our campaign, gathering information, giving opinions and in talks of what to do.....we do not mean to confuse anyone....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 10:11:21 PM
From what I can gather from my "interseting" conversation I've had with them on there facebook page (other than they like swearing, alot) the campagin seems to be based on the Co-op's pricing, and the "lack of choice in local shops". They also mentioned something about not being able to get to somewhere cheaper, which is fair enough, but if you have the internet why not internet shop? You get free delivery with some places to!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:13:49 PM
From what I can gather from my "interseting" conversation I've had with them on there facebook page (other than they like swearing, alot) the campagin seems to be based on the Co-op's pricing, and the "lack of choice in local shops". They also mentioned something about not being able to get to somewhere cheaper, which is fair enough, but if you have the internet why not internet shop? You get free delivery with some places to!

Some shops have a certain minimum you have to spend before you can get delivery (up to £5 delivery charge)...take asda for example....you have to spend a minimum of £25 online.....what if people only have £20 spare?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:21:08 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???


This next comment has been copied by someone who is STILL waiting to get onto this site.....he writes...

"Miss Marple, please point us in the direction of the evidence for the Tesco Extra, or Asda Supercentre which is supposedly being planned on the site.

We are working on a statement to summarise the Yes campaign and it will be a quite different statement from MIA's one in that it will not be based on crystal ball gazing".



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 10:21:45 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???

There is not much to understand really. We would like a supermarket on Hibbert Lane. We all have similar reasons why we would like this to go ahead but I cant speak for everyone who has joined the facebook page.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 29, 2011, 10:39:41 PM

This next comment has been copied by someone who is STILL waiting to get onto this site.....he writes...

"Miss Marple, please point us in the direction of the evidence for the Tesco Extra, or Asda Supercentre which is supposedly being planned on the site.

We are working on a statement to summarise the Yes campaign and it will be a quite different statement from MIA's one in that it will not be based on crystal ball gazing".




[/quote] I can only presume that the buyer wouldn't spend all that money on a huge site if they didn't want to build a huge store. what would be the point?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 10:49:22 PM
The interesting thing is that someone stated that the "yes" campaign wasn't actually a campaign, and yet some people say it is? I'm just confused now.
I must agree with you Trixie, It does seem a bit odd, why would tescos/asda shed out 12 million for a huge site, if they were only going to build a titchy thing on it? I smell foul play!
Another interesting thing is that the "yes" campaigners appear to be adamant that tesco is going to be built, Seems a Little fishy. But as usual I have nothing to base anything I have said here on, apart from my own thoughts that are not in any way influenced by fact or fiction.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 10:52:52 PM
I think maybe you are reading too much into it. Some people want to do more that others to help but our only aim really is to let it be heard that we do want this to happen. You all seem so confused by the fact that some people have different opionions, and go about things in different ways.

You should really stop reading in to it and stick to your own cause.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 10:54:43 PM
I think maybe you are reading too much into it. Some people want to do more that others to help but our only aim really is to let it be heard that we do want this to happen. You all seem so confused by the fact that some people have different opionions, and go about things in different ways.

You should really stop reading in to it and stick to your own cause.
This is my cause, As this proposed development would directly impact me in a negative manner.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 10:56:48 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 10:59:25 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?
I'm not speculating about how it was formed or why. I'm just stating that some people say its a campaign and some people say it isn't.
Now, At the risk of causing a "firestorm" on this thread I think we should leave this particular subject rest and move onto something else.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 11:08:35 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 29, 2011, 11:09:56 PM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 11:16:39 PM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.

You said before, you an't walk and don't have a car. If you get the bus from one end of marple to another it's £1.25 each way. You say you take all your kids shopping so that must be 60p each on top so if you get a delivery, you have saved £2.50 for yourself & £1.20 for each offspring. Your marginal cost for delivery can be as little as 30p assuming you only have one child, if you have more than one, you are in the money.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:22:15 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?

Why 'must' we support one supermarket over another?? We all have our preferences. We are not all one person with one view.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 11:25:21 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?

Why 'must' we support one supermarket over another?? We all have our preferences. We are not all one person with one view.
You got yourself in a bit of a twist there.
You are (all the YES campaigners) Fighting one view, and thats seeing that the supermarket is built, come hell or high water!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:28:25 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 29, 2011, 11:31:21 PM
Sareena do you live on Hibbert lane?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 11:33:53 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?

Why 'must' we support one supermarket over another?? We all have our preferences. We are not all one person with one view.

So your gripe with the Co-op / local traders is not just their prices?

Can I ask what else is involved
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 11:37:04 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
"come hell or high water" is an expression, it means that you will stop at nothing to ensure that you get what you want. For example, some people in the MIA ranks will make sure that the supermarket is not built, come hell or high water!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 11:39:03 PM
I have read on the latest facts ( Work starts on Buxton Lane )that residents have reported that surveyors are at work.Does anybody  know if anyone asked what they were doing?I would! They could be surveying how many houses they can build on there.Lets face  it £12 million wont pay for a whole new college extention.But £12 million from the Hibbert Lane site plus a sizeable amount from the sale of Buxton Lane site could pay for a large extention to an existing out of area college.Just a thought,things don't add up or do they?
I was thinking that, it would have been a good idea to have asked what they were measuring up for, because it still seems strange that the work on the Peacefield site stopped.  Its looking more and more like the college is going to take our money and the continuation of our  children's future education in our village / town  and run   Now that would be a double whammy and one that we didn't see coming due to concentrating on the Hibbert Lane site and taking our eyes of the Buxton Lane campus    I am sure selling gifted land is illegal and if it's not then it flipping well should be. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:42:55 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
"come hell or high water" is an expression, it means that you will stop at nothing to ensure that you get what you want. For example, some people in the MIA ranks will make sure that the supermarket is not built, come hell or high water!


But why would you get that impression from a small facbook group?

And yes I do live on Hibbert Lane Maria
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 29, 2011, 11:48:08 PM
Upper or lower Hibbert lane?  Also do you have children?

Sorry for all the questions but genuinley struggling to believe anyone would want to live facing something like a Tesco extra or Asda. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 29, 2011, 11:48:35 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
"come hell or high water" is an expression, it means that you will stop at nothing to ensure that you get what you want. For example, some people in the MIA ranks will make sure that the supermarket is not built, come hell or high water!


But why would you get that impression from a small facbook group?

And yes I do live on Hibbert Lane Maria
Considering peoples reaction to the posts on your wall You do seem to be determind, infact, one user wrote " and youve nothing to worry about but i will guarentee now that im going to do everything i can to beat the snobs in this town and get that thing built! Real talk!" that sure seems like there going to make it happen, come hell or high water!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 11:57:40 PM
Upper or lower Hibbert lane?  Also do you have children?

Sorry for all the questions but genuinley struggling to believe anyone would want to live facing something like a Tesco extra or Asda. 
how far is your nearest shop to YOUR house maria? How many times over the yeaes have you thought 'i need milk but the shop is quite a distance to walk'. It shouldnt matter whether sareena lives at the top bottom or even accross the road, it doesnt matter if she has no children or even 8, the fact is she wants it....thats her opinion...we struggle to understand why people cannot just accept our views
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:01:20 AM
Hello mum of 2-I am asking genuine questions and Sareena does not have to answer.  Why you feel compelled to is beyond me-I am not struggling to accept her view just trying to understand it and there is a difference.

I live on Hibbert lane and walk to the local shops when I need milk.  I do not use large superstores unless absolutely necessary but that is my choice. 

I want another supermarket in Marple but not in the middle of a housing estate-my quetion re children related to that re safety with increased traffic etc.  My question was not directed to you and like I have said Sareena does not have to answer-just simple fact finding on my part.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 30, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
Lower Hibbert Lane near the phonebox. I dont particularly like the look of a supermarket but I guess I just don't mind as much. And about the traffic, it's bad everywhere, it makes no difference to me. I think that people who drive themselves can't complain about traffic... (not an attack at you, i have no idea if you drive or not)
The pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:11:41 AM
Thanks Sareena, I do drive and agree traffic is a problem in most areas-just think it will only get worse with a supermarket facing us!  Also worried about the 'creep' factor over time-the car park and grassy area on the right for now must remain as open space but in time I think it will be used to extend the store etc and opening times, noise pollution, light pollution and deliveries amongst other things all concern me. 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:14:59 AM
Hello mum of 2-I am asking genuine questions and Sareena does not have to answer.  Why you feel compelled to is beyond me-I am not struggling to accept her view just trying to understand it and there is a difference.

I live on Hibbert lane and walk to the local shops when I need milk.  I do not use large superstores unless absolutely necessary but that is my choice. 

I want another supermarket in Marple but not in the middle of a housing estate-my quetion re children related to that re safety with increased traffic etc.  My question was not directed to you and like I have said Sareena does not have to answer-just simple fact finding on my part.
the reason i commented is due to the fact me and sareena are very close, we both have no transport to drive to a supermarket of our choice so we have to get what we need from marple....im not saying all shops in marple are going to be losing our custom as we will continue to shop at a good amount of the shops we already do....but we would like to have a choice to shop at another suprmarket other than the over priced co-op.
As for child safety our children(who are very young) know not to cross the road without n adult, and i have said in a previous post (maybe on another thread) that there is a  of lights opposite the collage hich shou be used for their purpose. I believe it is a parents responsibility to teatheir children how cross safely.

Could you suggest another are land where supermarket couild a decent sized supermarket? (Obviously not a superstore as we all know that is going to be ridiculously too big for marple)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:19:44 AM
Hi another area has been suggested and mooted by the council-cannot remember the name as it is late and my brain is fried but it is at the back of the town near the post office-rumour is it is going and site will become available.  Much more suitable in my opinion-but I accept maybe not in yours.  Also the Co-op have agreed in principle to release part of the Hanburys site to a competitor-I am not convinced it would work though and feel the post office area with its car park etc would be better. 

The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:22:33 AM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 30, 2011, 12:25:45 AM
I agree that a supermarket would be much more suitable in the centre of Marple but It is the college that is selling up so i think it's pointless saying where else it could be.

Although I will  not like the fact that the roads will be alot busier and less safe, this doesn't matter much to me because I have a gate to lock so my child can't get out without me.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:29:37 AM
Hi another area has been suggested and mooted by the council-cannot remember the name as it is late and my brain is fried but it is at the back of the town near the post office-rumour is it is going and site will become available.  Much more suitable in my opinion-but I accept maybe not in yours.  Also the Co-op have agreed in principle to release part of the Hanburys site to a competitor-I am not convinced it would work though and feel the post office area with its car park etc would be better. 

The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 
i believe that the sorting office (if it were to sell) would be too small, and would just turn into a 'local' or 'express' supermarket...more of a convenience store and less of a decent sized one that people are so desperatly after. We need somewhere to do a decent sized shop with all types of brands from value/ smart price (for example) to heinz/kelloggs.
Im not saying that hibbert lae is perfect (as we do understnd it is smack bang in the middle of a residential area...so its understandable why people are angry), but tere does not seem be anothersuitable sized area.....unless co-op sold its land (and we all know that will not happen)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:34:03 AM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:57:50 AM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.
i mean how many adults can honestly say they HAVE NOT**
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 10:43:45 AM
Moorendman writes 'Two further rhetorical questions for you Dave. Firstly what new shops do you really believe would come to Marple, bearing in mind that smaller shops are suffering loss of trade from superstores 5 or 6 miles away anyway? Secondly  if you believe that new retailers would open, would you not expect that view to be supported by a more postive attitude from the existing community of independent retailers in Marple to the potential arrival of a Tesco or Asda?'.

The point about a new supermarket is that it is NOT 5 or 6 miles away - it's a few hundred yards away! I honestly believe that apart from the Co-op and Iceland, the currently thriving retailers in Marple (Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops and many more) have nothing to fear from Tesco or Asda and evrything to gain. As for the views of these businesses themselves, I realise that their group has come out against the supermarket, but I wonder whether all members really share that views, or whether they may be closing ranks to protect their weaker members. I was in Scotland recently: Tesco are planning a new supermarket on the edge of Fort Wiliam, and the local chamber of commerce is all in favour. Interesting contrast there!   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 10:59:15 AM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.

You said before, you an't walk and don't have a car. If you get the bus from one end of marple to another it's £1.25 each way. You say you take all your kids shopping so that must be 60p each on top so if you get a delivery, you have saved £2.50 for yourself & £1.20 for each offspring. Your marginal cost for delivery can be as little as 30p assuming you only have one child, if you have more than one, you are in the money.

Firstly, none of my kids are obese (as someone made a hint at earlier many kids being these days). They walk plenty. Have you yourself got children? Have you ever tried doing a weekly shop with them? Carried shopping for 7/8/9 people on a bus? I do walk alot but have health issues which would mean I can't carry alot of heavy shopping up a hill. If I had lots of money and more time then shopping in Marple itself would be great. However, many shops are not easily accesible with a pram, i have been tutted at before now for blocking the aisles. Iceland is impossible with a double buggy etc etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 11:08:26 AM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.

You said before, you an't walk and don't have a car. If you get the bus from one end of marple to another it's £1.25 each way. You say you take all your kids shopping so that must be 60p each on top so if you get a delivery, you have saved £2.50 for yourself & £1.20 for each offspring. Your marginal cost for delivery can be as little as 30p assuming you only have one child, if you have more than one, you are in the money.

Firstly, none of my kids are obese (as someone made a hint at earlier many kids being these days). They walk plenty. Have you yourself got children? Have you ever tried doing a weekly shop with them? Carried shopping for 7/8/9 people on a bus? I do walk alot but have health issues which would mean I can't carry alot of heavy shopping up a hill. If I had lots of money and more time then shopping in Marple itself would be great. However, many shops are not easily accesible with a pram, i have been tutted at before now for blocking the aisles. Iceland is impossible with a double buggy etc etc.
I totally agree!! When i had my double buggy (which infact was a slim one to fit through a standard door way) i lost track of how many times i got stuck so i can understand exactly where you are coming from. Akso its hard enough going round the marple shops getting everything you need in one run and piling it onto the buggy whilst keeping tabs on your other children.....there is no way i would try getting on a bus aswel wh screaming hungry children ad gettin funny looks from the public....and even snootish remarks.....it ould be nice to have convenince of being in one place close to home
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on August 30, 2011, 11:56:09 AM
The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 
So the College is resorting to threats is it? Sounds as though they are running scared!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on August 30, 2011, 12:07:10 PM
Quote
Firstly, none of my kids are obese (as someone made a hint at earlier many kids being these days). They walk plenty. Have you yourself got children? Have you ever tried doing a weekly shop with them? Carried shopping for 7/8/9 people on a bus? I do walk alot but have health issues which would mean I can't carry alot of heavy shopping up a hill. If I had lots of money and more time then shopping in Marple itself would be great. However, many shops are not easily accesible with a pram, i have been tutted at before now for blocking the aisles. Iceland is impossible with a double buggy etc etc.
Have you tried asking independent shops to deliver? I think that you would be pleasantly surprised at the number in Marple who will do this, especially as you have a health problem. Most of those that I know don't charge from the service as they work it in with their usual journeys home or when pcking up stock.

As for buggies and children in shops, perhaps a "child parking area" might be a good project for shopkeepers, parents or the Methodist chapel could get together on.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 30, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 30, 2011, 01:10:52 PM
The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 

Seriously? You do realise that you're playing into Asda/Tesco hands with these sort of scaremongering comments!

I have no idea on the likelihood of the college selling both plots of land, but I'm very confident that if they do, we won't get two supermarkets. I can't for a second imagine that there would be a business case for, say, Tesco opening up on Buxton, if there's already an Asda on Hibbert.

It's much more likely that the land would be sold for housing development. But, if you keep scaring everybody into thinking it's going to be much much worse than it is, the plans they finally do submit will look reasonable, by comparison, and will stand a better chance of passing. And Asda/Tesco won't have had to make any compromises.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 01:17:16 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 01:45:08 PM
Miss M, I'm afraid your inability to provide any evidence for your 'more than just a rumour' that the college will relocate out or Marple leaves us with little alternative to regarding it as scaremongering.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 01:47:45 PM
Miss M, I'm afraid your inability to provide any evidence for your 'more than just a rumour' that the college will relocate out or Marple leaves us with little alternative to regarding it as scaremongering.

Give me time !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 01:57:59 PM
The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 

Seriously? You do realise that you're playing into Asda/Tesco hands with these sort of scaremongering comments!

I have no idea on the likelihood of the college selling both plots of land, but I'm very confident that if they do, we won't get two supermarkets. I can't for a second imagine that there would be a business case for, say, Tesco opening up on Buxton, if there's already an Asda on Hibbert.

It's much more likely that the land would be sold for housing development. But, if you keep scaring everybody into thinking it's going to be much much worse than it is, the plans they finally do submit will look reasonable, by comparison, and will stand a better chance of passing. And Asda/Tesco won't have had to make any compromises.

It is not scaremongering when it has been confirmed as something in the long term plans of the college.  You will also note I referred to the fact we could end up with 2 supermarkets to choose from-not we will. It is a possibility but agreed unlikely. Scaremongering would be to say we are getting a supermarket when we are not, we are getting one if the college get their way so guesswork re the size etc is far from scaremongering.  I am entitled to post my views and to date have said very little, if anything, to scare people.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 30, 2011, 01:59:32 PM
If this new supermarket goes Ahead we will have 2 supermarkets to choose from anyway, as the Co-op is not going to dissapear overnight!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 02:02:16 PM
I agree that a supermarket would be much more suitable in the centre of Marple but It is the college that is selling up so i think it's pointless saying where else it could be.

Although I will  not like the fact that the roads will be alot busier and less safe, this doesn't matter much to me because I have a gate to lock so my child can't get out without me.

It is not really pointless to say where another store could be-the planning application may rely on the argument there is no other location when clearly there is.  Any sale is subject to planning so all points will make a difference.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 02:04:29 PM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.

Agreed but as this is something we can have a say in and try to influence-unlike crime etc which will always happen wherever you live-I feel voicing an opinion, whether in favour or against, is something we are all entitled to do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Come on Nick, get real! on August 30, 2011, 02:35:55 PM
I think people living on Chadwick Street and Church Street would object to a supermarket being built where the sorting office is.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 02:42:06 PM
I think people living on Chadwick Street and Church Street would object to a supermarket being built where the sorting office is.

I agree.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 02:42:18 PM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.

Agreed but as this is something we can have a say in and try to influence-unlike crime etc which will always happen wherever you live-I feel voicing an opinion, whether in favour or against, is something we are all entitled to do.
of corse you are entitled to an opinion and nobody is going to tell you otherwise...just as we are entitled to our opinions. i thin kwe should leave it at that before it bocomes petty argumentative opinions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 02:55:25 PM
Quote
Have you tried asking independent shops to deliver? I think that you would be pleasantly surprised at the number in Marple who will do this, especially as you have a health problem. Most of those that I know don't charge from the service as they work it in with their usual journeys home or when pcking up stock.

As for buggies and children in shops, perhaps a "child parking area" might be a good project for shopkeepers, parents or the Methodist chapel could get together on.

I haven't thought of asking them to be honest but if they do that and could advertise it would be great as not everyone is confident enough to ask and many disabilities are not obvious and people may be worried about disclosing them. If a list of shops who would deliver is avaliable in future it would be great. there would still eb the issue, though, that going round lots of shops takes a lot longer if you were to get a weeks worth. I used to try sticking to Marple and go to Iceland, Mulligans (loo roll etc) and Savers/Boots. However it is quite time and labour consuming compared to tesco/asda online for example. I do use the local shops quite alot though in the week for various bits.

Buggy parking area is a really good idea but when I had 2/3 at toddler age it would have been impossible to hold on to them and a trolly at the same time. Not sure recently but the co-op and Iceland never used to have twin trollies (with child seats). Sometimes it is plain easier to have a toddler in a trolley aswell when shopping.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 02:55:39 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 
Thank you!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 30, 2011, 03:59:09 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on August 30, 2011, 04:12:06 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.

Very good post marpleexile. 2+2=5 in a lot of this.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 04:32:27 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.

I hope you read my reply to your thread before-I am not scaremongering and in reality what I or you say on here will not alter the course of events anyway.  Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered and again most likely scenario would be to the highest bidder-as per the colleges current reasoning.  The size of the Hibbert lane site for now will be the existing building footprint/area the building is on-that has been confirmed by the college in an open discussion with me so it is not hearsay.  The area on the right currently the car park would for now remain as open space.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 05:12:41 PM
Maria, you write 'Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered'.

Confirmed? By whom?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 05:28:55 PM
Maria, you write 'Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered'.

Confirmed? By whom?

I am sorry but the person has asked not to be named therefore I cannot say.  Time will tell if they do go ahead with it though I guess.  I will refrain from speculating any further from now on as to the sale/use etc of Buxton lane as nothing is definite just being considered.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 30, 2011, 05:37:43 PM
The point about a new supermarket is that it is NOT 5 or 6 miles away - it's a few hundred yards away! I honestly believe that apart from the Co-op and Iceland, the currently thriving retailers in Marple (Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops and many more) have nothing to fear from Tesco or Asda and evrything to gain. As for the views of these businesses themselves, I realise that their group has come out against the supermarket, but I wonder whether all members really share that views, or whether they may be closing ranks to protect their weaker members. I was in Scotland recently: Tesco are planning a new supermarket on the edge of Fort Wiliam, and the local chamber of commerce is all in favour. Interesting contrast there!   

I think you have a rose-tinted view here Dave. The bottom line is those shops you list (and others) very much believe their business would be affected by a supermarket moving in on Hibbert La. It's their business, it''s their jobs, it's their families jobs and more than likely it's their houses on the line and they are worried.

It's all very well for someone in a cushy public sector job who's never had to worry about anything more than choosing a nice sunny day to go on strike, business owners have taken a huge risk in setting up, growing their business or only to survive, they did not counter on a large superstore opening 10  mins up the road.


I'm not so sure about your observation Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops etc are all thriving. I'd not be surprised if they are finding it as hard as other retailers and worried about going bust.

You may think people will shop in an identikit superstore, walk the 5 metres to their identikit car having brought some identikt shopping and then all of a sudden think "you know, I wonder if Littlewoods have some 24 day Aberdeen Angus in?, I'll walk the 10 minutes up the road to see.!" - I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Furthermore, those who actually put their money where their mouth is don't see it that way either.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
Maria, I very much doubt whether your anonymous source is reliable. The college governors minutes quoted elsewhere on this forum clearly show that the option of consolidating all three camsfc campuses on to one site was ruled out on cost grounds. Your source may not know that - or may be one of the scaremongers, of course.

Duke, I guess we"ll just have to agree to differ as usual ;-) But you might find it instructive to pop over to Glossop some time and see how Mettrick's butchers and other local shops are doing, along the street from Tesco. They seem to be doing just fine.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mrs O on August 30, 2011, 06:20:21 PM
Dave ,why don't you just pop off to the towns that have been killed by major supermarkets?A lot of them shop in Marple.They call it a nice day out and say how lucky we are to live in a place that still has a thriving town centre.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 06:56:12 PM
Trixie, do you think Glossop has been 'killed'? I don't.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 06:59:43 PM
Maria, I very much doubt whether your anonymous source is reliable. The college governors minutes quoted elsewhere on this forum clearly show that the option of consolidating all three camsfc campuses on to one site was ruled out on cost grounds. Your source may not know that - or may be one of the scaremongers, of course.

Duke, I guess we"ll just have to agree to differ as usual ;-) But you might find it instructive to pop over to Glossop some time and see how Mettrick's butchers and other local shops are doing, along the street from Tesco. They seem to be doing just fine.

You may believe what you wish Dave but I know my source is reliable.  Not all the minutes are published and elements of some are omitted.  As I have said however whether they choose to go ahead with it is another matter. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 09:14:40 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 

Any news on these complaining guidelines? It would be useful to know for future reference for those needing it
thanks
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 09:15:30 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 

Nevermind, just spotted the new thread :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: danny on August 30, 2011, 09:19:48 PM
Just spotted some "vote tesco" graffiti on the canal bridge near the farm at the top of hawk green, the one that shares a road with the golf course. looked fairly fresh to
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 09:25:24 PM
I am sorry Dave but with your constant questioning which is getting oh so predictable, you are eventually going to stop the small amount of MIA members from posting on this site.  If I was being drip fed information as it came to light I would be very pleased not constantly shooting the messenger.  I have nothing to gain by telling lies but a lot to loose by saying too much which would cause our information to dry up, because peoples jobs are at risk if their identities are revealed   So please stop constantly slating the posts or I think MIA will stop posting which would be a shame as it has enlightened a lot of the community to what's happening.  Always remember Dave NO ONE would be any the wiser to all this if MIA had not alerted the public.  You come across as an intelligent man so surely you must understand that this is more than a supermarket being built on Hibbert Lane it's about the legalities of what the college is doing with land that was gifted, it's about the colleges past financial difficulties, it's about a private company being able to sell a plot of land that should be for our childrens education and failing to inform the community what it's plans are.  Because like it or not if any other private company were struggling financially, you can be as sure as hell that the people of MARPLE would not be bailing it out.  So ask yourself why are we bailing out a private company and giving them an easy ride so that our children may have to travel half way across Stockport to attend a college.  So if I can prevent all the children of MARPLE having to go to an out of area college with the increased costs that would place on families I will, because this land was for education not a flipping supermarket or housing,  I still  struggle to understand why you appear to think it's ok that the college has mis managed it's finances, for goodness sake Dave you must also be  asking yourself where has all the money gone, because from the looks of it it's not been invested in the buildings. 
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on August 30, 2011, 10:23:13 PM
The point about a new supermarket is that it is NOT 5 or 6 miles away - it's a few hundred yards away! I honestly believe that apart from the Co-op and Iceland, the currently thriving retailers in Marple (Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops and many more) have nothing to fear from Tesco or Asda and evrything to gain. As for the views of these businesses themselves, I realise that their group has come out against the supermarket, but I wonder whether all members really share that views, or whether they may be closing ranks to protect their weaker members. I was in Scotland recently: Tesco are planning a new supermarket on the edge of Fort Wiliam, and the local chamber of commerce is all in favour. Interesting contrast there!   

I think you have a rose-tinted view here Dave. The bottom line is those shops you list (and others) very much believe their business would be affected by a supermarket moving in on Hibbert La. It's their business, it''s their jobs, it's their families jobs and more than likely it's their houses on the line and they are worried.

It's all very well for someone in a cushy public sector job who's never had to worry about anything more than choosing a nice sunny day to go on strike, business owners have taken a huge risk in setting up, growing their business or only to survive, they did not counter on a large superstore opening 10  mins up the road.


I'm not so sure about your observation Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops etc are all thriving. I'd not be surprised if they are finding it as hard as other retailers and worried about going bust.

You may think people will shop in an identikit superstore, walk the 5 metres to their identikit car having brought some identikt shopping and then all of a sudden think "you know, I wonder if Littlewoods have some 24 day Aberdeen Angus in?, I'll walk the 10 minutes up the road to see.!" - I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Furthermore, those who actually put their money where their mouth is don't see it that way either.
Maybe, just maybe this is because these proprietors have been scared witless by the MIA campaign
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 11:06:40 PM
Hi Marpleexile we do know for a fact that they can build on nearly 5. Something  acres now then after 10 years build on the remaining 3.something acres.  So we could see the development grow and grow.  Once the land has been sold the owners can do basically what they want.  The site is as big as the Portwood Site, I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful she is always contacting the council about noise levels but the supermarket is a law unto itself.  There are car alarms going off, trucks unloading, car doors slamming , noise from the freezers, beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up, lights so bright that her bedroom is lit up at night and an increased crime rate due to gangs of youths hanging around not to mention her road being used as a rat run at all hours of the night. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 30, 2011, 11:46:02 PM
what they want.  I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful..... beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up

Is that to cover the swearing?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 31, 2011, 09:58:27 AM
Maria, you write 'Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered'.

Confirmed? By whom?

I am sorry but the person has asked not to be named therefore I cannot say. 

Maria, have another look