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Archive => Archived Boards => Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus to Supermarket Chain => Topic started by: Miss Marple on June 07, 2011, 07:21:49 PM

Title: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 07, 2011, 07:21:49 PM
Just heard from a friend who works at the college that the Big Boys from Tesco have already been into the college (Willows) on Hibbert Lane and are in talks with planning.  I do not know how true it is but I have been told that Tesco are requesting a roundabout where the newsagents is on the new road.  This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 08, 2011, 08:33:19 AM
I hope you're information source is wrong Miss Marple but I doubt it. Very clever of Tesco to wave the carrot of a new swimming pool, probably incorporating small sports centre as well. Marple has the oldest pool in the borough and this development would safe guard the facility. Also if the college is demolished Marple will also lose the dry sports facility. As for the extra traffic the development would create!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on June 08, 2011, 08:45:04 AM
Oh my! This has made me feel sick! How can we find out if this is true?

A very worried Stationery Supplies! :-[
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 08, 2011, 11:08:37 AM
I do not know how we find out but we need to act quick !  This forum can be a useful tool to either bring about change or stop ill thought out changes, its called people power.  I intend to contact one of my employees and ask him what he knows about it because since the last elections Mr Stunell has become extremely quiet
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on June 08, 2011, 12:28:13 PM
Thanks Miss Marple, I've put out a few 'feelers' myself!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on June 08, 2011, 04:58:54 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 08, 2011, 05:05:08 PM
..... This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P

I can't see whats wrong with us getting a nice new swimming pool to replace the old one we have now. Why would anyone object to this?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on June 08, 2011, 05:21:14 PM
After making some enquiries on the Marple grapevine, otherwise known as the Co-op, I have been told the word is that the college has put contracts in place for the next three years, including one with a cleaning company. Don't know how accurate this info is but there we are, this is the story that seems to be doing the rounds at the moment.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 08, 2011, 05:39:40 PM
Don't forget that the college has two buildings in Marple and they are only considering shutting one of them.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 08, 2011, 06:18:26 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
          Who told you the library was not well used .a crazy posting .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on June 08, 2011, 06:20:34 PM
This rumour has an air of the real thing about it.  The sweeteners, I'm sure SMBC would think, are tempting...the swimming pool building is old and the Stockport Rd/Hibbert Lane junction is a bit of a joke...get them both done for free!  I don't think existing contracts would stand in the way of Tesco either, they would just 'compensate' as necessary.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 08, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tonyjones on June 08, 2011, 08:19:43 PM
IF tesco are planning to build a store on the Hibbert Lane site they are probably looking at trying to get customers from:
 Disley and High Lane who will travel through Hawk Green,
 New Mills who will travel along Strines Road and through the centre of Marple
 Marple Bridge, Compstall and Romiley who will travel up Brabyns Brow and through the centre of Marple.

The centre of Marple around stockport Road will become grid locked.

Apart from traffic concerns the real issue is what will happen to all the local shops who will loose custom.

Marple does not want or need a tesco store coming in to grab all the business it can.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 08, 2011, 08:23:32 PM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)
YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY MOUTH !!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 08, 2011, 09:12:02 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
Why would council tax go down?It never has,never will and the tax banding is for Stockport not Marple ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on June 08, 2011, 10:07:34 PM
Why would council tax go down?It never has,never will and the tax banding is for Stockport not Marple ::)

Maybe not but it would free up millions of pounds to spend on more essential services. And I mentioned Stockport as a whole.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 09, 2011, 04:24:17 PM
IF tesco are planning to build a store on the Hibbert Lane site they are probably looking at trying to get customers from:
 Disley and High Lane who will travel through Hawk Green,
 New Mills who will travel along Strines Road and through the centre of Marple
 Marple Bridge, Compstall and Romiley who will travel up Brabyns Brow and through the centre of Marple.

The centre of Marple around stockport Road will become grid locked.

Apart from traffic concerns the real issue is what will happen to all the local shops who will loose custom.

Marple does not want or need a tesco store coming in to grab all the business it can.
why does everybody shop at TESCO .NEW SWIMING BATHS NEW ROAD LAYOUT TO COMPLIMENT DAN BANK . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplex on June 09, 2011, 06:37:15 PM
Well I have to say that I would be totally in favour of this proposal if they do indeed build a new swimming pool that includes a gym.

At the moment I travel to Morrison's in Bredbury at least once a week which a 8 mile round trip and I travel to the gym at the Mooreside in Disley 3 times a week which is a 16 mile round trip.  If we had a Tesco's in Marple and swimming including gym I would save about £600 a year in petrol.  People only seem to talk about the extra traffic coming into Marple but I am far more interested in the  mileage that I would save. I also calculate that I would save over 40 hours of driving time a year.

I also don't see how it can affect local shops. We all currently shop at the supermarket so what difference does it make to local shops if we shop at Tesco's in Marple or Morrison's in Bredbury or wherever.  It would bring more employment to Marple which is another good thing. If fact if it brings people into Marple then that can be a good thing for local businesses.  I do however think that our friends at Spar and Premier would suffer though, but I don't think that would be any great loss!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on June 09, 2011, 09:36:58 PM
What have you all got against the Co-op?!!!  It is not at all bad, and the movement as a whole is seeking to improve all the time.  I do, from time to time, go to other supermarkets, and I do use the local shops, particularly Wilsons, but I support the Co-op as much as I can.  (I await the brickbats!!)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on June 09, 2011, 09:53:32 PM
tescos on hibbert lane a good idea ??? are you lot bonkers stupid idea,even more huge hgvs and traffic clogging up marple,we allready have a co-op x2 iceland etc,we dont need any more superstores thanks.
all for the bribe of a little swimming baths/gym we allready have one,get our handsomely paid idle councilliors to improve the one we have and theres a gym in the mill.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 10, 2011, 09:20:07 AM
MarpleX there is also a Gym at the current swimming pool, small but perfectly adequate. If you went there you would save on the petrol and the membership is cheaper than the Moorside. Unfortunately swimming pools are very expensive both to build and run so any thoughts that the council would be able to provide the funds are gone these days. We missed the boat many years ago when the new pools were being built at Romiley & Hazel Grove.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mike W on June 10, 2011, 11:50:26 AM
I've no idea whether there's any truth in this rumour, but I'd be inclined to treat any promises of swimming pools or leisure facilities with a huge dollop of salt.  Some years ago, I lived in the immediate vicinity of a proposed major supermarket development.  Before planning permission was granted, the company concerned (not Tesco, I should say) made extensive promises about the leisure and community facilities that would be built to replace those being lost to the development.  They even organised an exhibition so that local residents could view plans and models of the new facilities.  Perhaps needless to say, once permission was granted and the supermarket built, none of the promised facilities ever materialised.  It's very hard for local authorities to enforce planning conditions retrospectively, unless they're prepared to engage in costly and potentially risky legal action. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 10, 2011, 07:55:06 PM
Tesco have got "form" regarding their empty promises of swimming pools, leisure facilities etc.

For one example see the excellent Tescopoly site (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=340&Itemid=111)

We lost our fight against Tesco in 1990 as the developers offered to provide Adur with a swimming pool, which turned out to be just a building with a hole in it so the council had to plumb and tile the pool and furnish/decorate the building! This year it could no longer afford to run this pool and has leased it to a private enterprise.

Or the promise of building a proper ice skating rink before the existing one gets demolished to make way for the store (a temporary one was built, meanwhile Tesco press on with further expansion of the new store regardless) Tescopoly site again (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1329&Itemid=105)

I don't have a right lot of confidence in Stockport Council outsmarting the mighty Tesco monopoly machine, based on their previous skirmishes, see example  Independent newspaper article (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesco-bullies-councils-to-get-its-way-523197.html).

In Portwood, Stockport, Tesco built a Tesco Extra hypermarket which failed to comply with planning conditions. At 120,000 sq ft, the store was 20 per cent larger than the size limit that Stockport Borough Council had imposed on it when it granted planning permission.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 10, 2011, 08:50:12 PM
I think there's a lot of truth in this as apparently the college's staff were told about these plans some time ago but told not to mention it before the council elections.  Perhaps some of our local councillors have a vested interest in this - maybe it's time to ask them. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 11, 2011, 06:11:44 AM
"Miss Marple" has passed on this message from Cllr Andrew Bispham concerning the Tesco rumours. I should add that MM's real name, email address and phone number were provided to Cllr Bispham but I have removed/replaced them for this public post.


From: "Cllr Andrew Bispham"
Date: 10 June 2011 22:17:07 GMT+01:00
To: “Miss Marple”
Subject: Hibbert Lane.

“Miss Marple”,
 
This is a rumour which keeps circulating but as far as I am aware there is absolutely nothing in it. Should the collage vacate, the land at Hibbert Lane is designated as housing land in the structure plan and therefore is not available for a supermarket. If they have looked, this is what they have been told.This is also the first that I have heard about a roundabout. But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of a good rumour. 
 
Try these, the council are going give permission for genetically modified crops on Arkwright Road rec and the military are going to start dumping low level nuclear waste in Chadkirk Mill. Both of these are totally untrue but it would be interesting to see what comes back after they have done the rounds for six weeks.
 
Enjoy your weekend.
 
Andrew
 
 
From: autosend@stockportcouncillors.info [mailto:autosend@stockportcouncillors.info]
Sent: 10 June 2011 22:01
To: Cllr Andrew Bispham
Subject: You Have been sent a message from stockportcouncillors.info
 
Councillor Andrew Bispham
You Have Received A Message From “Miss Marple”

Tesco
Have you any information about Tesco coming to Marple on Hibbert lane and a roundabout being put where the swimming baths and newsagents is I have heard that all the councillors are aware but wanted nothing said until after the election. When replying be mindful that I put replies on web site for all other interested residents.

 Regards “Miss Marple”

Phone Number #########
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 11, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
In Portwood, Stockport, Tesco built a Tesco Extra hypermarket which failed to comply with planning conditions. At 120,000 sq ft, the store was 20 per cent larger than the size limit that Stockport Borough Council had imposed on it when it granted planning permission.
[/quote]

To be fair to the Council on this one. They did punish Tesco for this and a significant chunk of the Portwood building lies idle. Just have a look the next time you are in there - there is a chunk of retail area down the side near the front door which is not being used after Stockport Council realised what had happened and applied the relevant enforcement action.

There is a long way to go before a store could be built anyway and its not as easy as you might think, but if the demand is there,  I have no doubt that Marple is a candidate for a store. Afterall 30,000+ residents (if you include the outlying settlements) being served by a succession of small co-ops is ripe for something.

I also think that the concerns re: traffic chaos are probably completely overblown, as with a bit if creativity and spending (which the Council could easily extract from any developer through the planning system - and in my experience Stockport Council are one of the better North West Councils for achieving this) I'm sure a solution could be delivered.

I'm no supporter of any new store (if indeed there is any liklihood of one being promoted) but if proposals do come forward, one has to be rationale when reviewing things. The planning system is not there to support the retention of the status quo comewhat may, but rather seeks to decide whether a proposed land use is reasonable for the location proposed. If it is, then planning permission will be granted, with conditions controlling things. If its not then the application will be refused. Emotion plays no part in the long run, as even if you can 'get at' your local council to oppose matters, any impartial government inspector would simpy overturn any such decision made for political reasons at appeal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplex on June 11, 2011, 02:16:56 PM
The college has Governors meetings (or something similar) which has a few students in attendance.  My son who attends the college has been told by a student that attends the meetings that plan is to sell the Hibbert Lane site to Tesco's and to extend the Burton Lane site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 11, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
Not sure why Councillor Bispham is unaware of this as there is a councillor on the governors at the college - I just had a look on their website and there's a list of the governors.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 11, 2011, 04:27:09 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept so we are not  just left with a cut and sealed decision ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 11, 2011, 04:42:59 PM
The college should have a policy where the minutes of the Governor's meetings can be made available to the public, might be an idea to ask for a copy of the minutes of the last few meetings. If the Governor's have deemed that the minutes are not available to the public then they may be attempting to hide something.
However is the land is designated as housing on the Structure plan then it would be very hard to get the land designated for Retail development.
No doubt the college will try and sell the land to the highest bidder, but the question we should be asking our local councillors is "If the land is sold off by the college what is happening about the dry sports facility, located on the current site,  that is available to the general public after 4:00 pm."
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 11, 2011, 05:05:23 PM
From the last Finance and General Committee Meeting at Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College:

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47

Quote
Item 6
STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
The Chair reported that the consultants were making good progress with property matters. More information on progress would be brought to the next meeting of Corporation.

The next Corporation meeting was scheduled for 1st March but the minutes are not on-line.

It says on the page:

Minutes of Corporation and Committee meetings held since January 2008 are available on this page. Minutes and papers (except those currently deemed confidential) can also be viewed by arrangement at the Cheadle campus of the College. Please contact Carole Jeffery, Clerk to the Corporation, at the Cheadle campus either in writing or by telephone on 0161 486 4670 or mobile 07841 500547.

Item 12 in another set of minute from the Estates Committee meetings almost exactly a year ago mention several times reports deemed confidential due to commercial sensitivity:

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf

Away you go Miss Marple..........
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 11, 2011, 05:17:09 PM
If only there was a Marple councillor in the management team at the college. :-\

Oh wait, here we are : Councillor Shan Alexander ;D

(http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/UserData/7/1/1/Info00000117/bigpic.jpg)

Declaration of interests here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6).

Profile and contact details here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on June 11, 2011, 05:44:37 PM

By invitation to the CAMSFC Estates Committee meeting 2010 meeting was Mark Krassowski of Walsingham Planning listed as consultants for Item 12.  The info below is from the Walsingham Planning website 

Mark’s experience includes acting for retailers such as Sainsbury, Tesco, Lidl, B&Q, Wickes and Dixons, wholesale operator Costco and shopping centre owner and developer Westfield Shoppingtowns. Mark has also promoted numerous retail schemes for landowners and developers on town centre, edge of centre and out of centre sites.

To be fair , Walsingham Planning also do education projects so to find out exactly what's going on, perhaps it is time for our Councillors to answer some questions on the issue and those invited to the estates meeting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 11, 2011, 06:28:30 PM
I have emailled local councillors, Stockport Express local reporter and our MP and have asked them for a speedy reply as to what they know.  When their replies are in :-\ I am thinking of arranging a meeting with them  so that residents can find out first hand what is happening to the college site, be it housing or a Tesco.  I am slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that our representatives think that they can speak on our behalf! WELL they can not without consultation  So if a meeting was to be held could I count on support from members of the forum to attend ?  I think it's important that residents have their say and I hope you do too?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 11, 2011, 09:23:30 PM
If only there was a Marple councillor in the management team at the college. :-\

Oh wait, here we are : Councillor Shan Alexander ;D

(http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/UserData/7/1/1/Info00000117/bigpic.jpg)

Declaration of interests here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6).

Profile and contact details here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117).


Cllr Alexander is not listed on the Cheadle and Marple College web site as a governor or committee member and I suspect the info you have linked to may be out of date.
You would note that it is dated 2006. There is a Cllr. Margaret McLay listed as a Governor and I think she may have taken over Cllr Alexander's role some time ago.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=44
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 11, 2011, 09:25:31 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept so we are not  just left with a cut and sealed decision ?
            Dont littlewoods the buchers have a form in the shop .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 11, 2011, 09:34:24 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept .......

Why are so many people set on objecting to something they know nothing about?

Wait until you see some proposals and, if you don't agree with them, object then.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 11, 2011, 09:52:53 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept .......

Why are so many people set on objecting to something they know nothing about?

Wait until you see some proposals and, if you don't agree with them, object then.

  Don't think they are Miss Marple is objecting Seventeen windows ,Dan Bank now tesco . you go in the coop big gaps on the shelves go in Monday very few veg .people dont want that they want to be able to buy what they want .a Tesco would give them that .i know it would come at a price ,closeyer  of some shops . but its happening over the country .you cant stop progress .sorry if i upset some people saying this .
   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 11, 2011, 10:16:26 PM
I am slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that our representatives think that they can speak on our behalf!

Imagine their impertinence! Surely when the community elect someone to act / speak on their behalf then you can hardly be shocked when they do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 11, 2011, 10:46:19 PM

Cllr Alexander is not listed on the Cheadle and Marple College web site as a governor or committee member and I suspect the info you have linked to may be out of date.
You would note that it is dated 2006. There is a Cllr. Margaret McLay listed as a Governor and I think she may have taken over Cllr Alexander's role some time ago.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=44

Agree, good point.  Bit of a shambles this "register of interests" lark.  Shan's says she's still a governor at CAMSFC, Margaret's doesn't mention her governorship at CAMSFC, and another Marple councillor Kevin Dowling just doesn't list whether he has interests or not.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 12, 2011, 01:27:29 AM
I am slowly but surely coming to the conclusion that our representatives think that they can speak on our behalf!

Imagine their impertinence! Surely when the community elect someone to act / speak on their behalf then you can hardly be shocked when they do.
Think you missed my point !  I am talking democratic not totalitarian  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 12, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
Also from the last minuted Corporation Meeting meeting it states that Councillor Margaret McLay [Governor] (MMY) was present at the meeting from Item 6.4. Item 6.4 was deemed confidential on the grounds of commercial sensitivity and minuted separately. Miss Marple I'm sure you would like to point this out to Cllr Bispham, for info Margaret McLay was a Lib Dem councillor for Romiley until the last elections in May when she lost her seat.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 12, 2011, 04:13:00 PM
Has anyone any idea of how we can start the objections before it gets to the planning dept .......

Why are so many people set on objecting to something they know nothing about?

Wait until you see some proposals and, if you don't agree with them, object then.
That's what I am trying to do Harry!  It's called having an informed choice !!!  Which is not a phrase you hear so much especially in Stockport.  Armed with knowledge and the right to active consultation, mountains have been known to be moved,  armchair  politics is exactly why nothing ever gets done, and then most of us have that 'OH MY GOD ' type moment !   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 13, 2011, 09:27:16 PM
Miss Marple has had another reply from Cllr Bispham:

From: "Cllr Andrew Bispham"
Date: 13 June 2011 19:03:21 GMT+01:00
To: "Miss Marple"
Subject: Hibbert Lane Site.

"Miss Marple",

Following your e mails at weekend I have asked about the Hibbert Lane site today. As I said at weekend, nothing has changed. The land is designated as housing land and if a supermarket chain were to put in an application for a store, it would, or certainly should be, refused. In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities.          

The above notwithstanding, the following is a possible scenario which I have given to residents before.

Assume the site is purchased, a planning application is submitted, and is then refused by Stockport MBC. The applicant would then immediately appeal to the Secretary of State against such a decision as the owner of the site has a right to dispose of it or develop it as they see fit. Having invested heavily in purchasing the site they have an enormous interest in that investment.

The appeal could go two ways. Either the decision is upheld or dismissed.

A) If it is upheld the next step would be the High Court and the case would be decided by the courts.

B) If however it is dismissed, the store chain would then get planning permission from the Secretary of State to do as they wished. Stockport MBC would then in all probability have costs awarded against them for delaying a legitimate application. Not only would you get your store, but as ratepayers, you would have the privilege of paying to build it.

In addition, Stockport MBC would not be able to place conditions on the applicant as they didn't grant permission.

Here are some salient points to the above.

At no time in the above have any local councillors been involved in the procedure.

An application of this sort would never be decided at a local level.

All planning applications succeed eventually. Planning is exactly like playing poker. Only when you give up do you fail.

Planning is an expensive game, barristers, lawyers and planning consultants are not cheap, if an applicant is prepared to spend thousands on winning, then objectors have to be prepared to spend the more to defeat them.

Regards, Andrew Bispham
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alan@marple on June 13, 2011, 11:18:55 PM
Sound advice from Councillor Bispam, he I would trust!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 14, 2011, 04:26:41 PM
I disagree with Cllr Bispham statement that "No local councillors have been involved in the procedure", Margaret McLay who was a Lib Dem councillor for Romiley until the last elections in May when she lost her seat has been present at meetings where the possible use of the land has been discussed.
Or is Romiley not local?
The minutes have not been published by the college due to their commercial sensitivity, which I suspect is a ruse by the college to stop residents objecting and putting off bids from various organisations in advance of planning permission being sought.
The college would want to get the best price for the land so they should open it up to competitive bids, so why are they keeping the minutes secret for nearly 2 years!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 14, 2011, 05:40:57 PM
That's a good point Victor?  I am awaiting other replies from councillors and our MP. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 14, 2011, 07:14:10 PM
The Tescopoly site regarding objections to a store in Poynton makes interesting reading http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=857&Itemid=107
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on June 14, 2011, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: Councillor Bispham
All planning applications succeed eventually. Planning is exactly like playing poker. Only when you give up do you fail.

While I appreciate his candid opinion on the proposal, it's heartening to see the Poynton folk weren't quite so defeatist as the councillor.  Local folk should be entitled to a say in their environment and the success or failure of a development shouldn't just come down to who has the fat wallet.

After they won their battle with Tesco, their campaign website was taken down, but it's still possible to view a copy of it via archive.org here (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120171000/http://www.poyntonagainsttesco.co.uk/).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on June 15, 2011, 01:37:43 PM
I don't really care whether it is Tescos, Sainsbury's, Aldi or whoever, it is high time that the Co-op in Marple had some competition: their prices are terrible, their shelves are often empty (especially of fruit and vegetables) and a sizable minority of their staff are very impolite.

Tescos wouldn't bring any more traffic - the same number of people will do the same amount of shopping ... they just won't have to drive into Stockport or Hazel Grove to do it. I can't imagine many people from outside deliberately driving into Marple because a new supermarket has opened there. Nor can I imagine any decent small shop in the centre of Marple suffering: the supermarkets simply don't sell the same things.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 02:06:44 PM
Sorry don't agree, you only have to look at the impact that Morrissons had on Bredbury to realise that a large supermarket like Tesco would decimate Marple and clog it up with traffic. Marple's roads can't handle what's thrown at them now. It would be like the rush hour but 12 hrs a day.
Also a new Tesco would move the centre of Marple down to Hibbert Lane, all the students would go to the Tesco for lunch and half the shops would shut as a result.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplex on June 15, 2011, 02:38:05 PM
I am going to keep an open mind and as with most things there are going to be winners and losers. I have to say however that at the moment I am very much in favour of a new Tesco's in Marple.

Quote
all the students would go to the Tesco's for lunch
What is wrong with that? they have to go somewhere, where do they go now?

Quote
It would be like the rush hour but 12 hrs a day
At the moment people are driving through Marple going to Stockport & Bedbury, etc. A store in Marple would result in less driving for residents and people in surrounding area's instead of driving through would stop in Marple.  It would also mean less traffic in Bredbury!

Quote
half the shops would shut as a result
I disagree, the shops in Marple are not competing with the Supermarkets. We are all going to the Supermarkets now anyway in Stockport & Bredbury or wherever. In fact because residents would be more likely to stay in Marple and people from the surrounding area instead of driving through actually stop in Marple the local shops could actually see a boom in business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 03:17:21 PM
In answer to the above comments

1  By going to the local shops in keeps Gregg's etc in business, without the student income they would close.

2  The people driving to other supermarkets from Marple aren't clogging up Marple, they are adding to the congestion in hazel Grove, Bredbury etc.

3  At present a large number of people either walk or drive to the co-op, which is centrally located, and doing so pass local shops where they buy other things from (Butchers, Bakers, hardware store etc.) If there was a Tesco built they would drive to that store, park up, shop and then drive home. Not visiting any local stores because they are too far away
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 03:25:26 PM
1  By going to the local shops in keeps Gregg's etc in business, without the student income they would close.

If the college can't sell the land to build a supermarket then the college could close. You have a self defeating argument.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 03:29:37 PM
Re the posts from hollins and marplex:

Good points, well made. I'm in full agreement with you both.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 04:05:38 PM
Not if they sell the land for a housing development, OK will cause an increase to the local traffic but it is the lesser of the two evils.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 04:59:14 PM
Not if they sell the land for a housing development, OK will cause an increase to the local traffic but it is the lesser of the two evils.

Wrong.  A housing development would not realise anything like the return that a supermarket would. That is why they want to sell it to a supermarket.

We are already going to have more traffic when the development on the Klondike site is finished. I understand that is about 99 homes, so probably about 200 cars trying to get out of Marple in the morning and back in the afternoon.

If the Hibbert Lane site was sold for housing I should think they could squeeze something like 300 hutches\\\\\\ houses on there. That would be another 600 cars. All trying to get out and back at the same times.

At least a supermarket spreads the traffic throughout the day. And some of us would walk there instead of driving to Bredbury or Hazel Grove.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 15, 2011, 05:39:38 PM
The land is already designated as housing, it would generate a considerable amount of money for the college to continue to operate on 2 sites (Marple & Cheadle). At the end of the day the land originally belonged to the people of Marple, do you not think that the college has got a moral obligation to make sure that any land they dispose of does not destroy Marple?
Also Tesco would want more than 600 car journeys a day to make the site viable, more like 9000 a day.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on June 15, 2011, 05:44:08 PM
there's a lot of guessing going on in this thread

 ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on June 15, 2011, 05:44:17 PM
Anyone who believes that a Tesco would not impact on our local shops is kidding themselves. Most people who shop locally also make  a weekly trip to another out of Marple Supermarket. But although there is a strong desire in many cases to use local shops, a Tesco in Marple would suckup some of that local shop income. The two delis would undoubtedly suffer, at least one more baker would close, the butchers would suffer, the fish van would probably stop coming twice a week, the bookshop would lose trade and so on.

Traffic would increase in Marple as people from High Lane, Disley, hayfield and New Mills would all have an alternative to the Tesco's at Glossop or Whaley Bridge. What is the problem with the Coop? Whilst they dont always have the range of the largest Tesco's their prices are not unreasonable and are probably a saving taking into account petrol costs. I personally have never had a problem with any staff in the Coop and actually recognise many of them. My wife and I shop at Tesco's on a regular basis but also try to spend locally as we recognise that a balanced society needs its local shops too. If everyone in Marple and the surrounding areas made a conscious effort to spend £5 or£10 a week locally then local businesses would thrive.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 15, 2011, 06:15:04 PM
there's a lot of guessing going on in this thread

There certainly is. I have no idea why people are saying 'Tesco'. That is pure speculation. There are quite a number of possible options.

Some people seem to think that our college is not in a similar position to others. It may not be in as much debt, but it will be in debt.

See http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1423020_100-workers-face-the-axe-as-stockport-college-faces-5m-debt-crisis



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on June 15, 2011, 06:18:34 PM
I agree Moorendman, a tesco (or any other large supermarket) will undoubtedly impact on local traders, and on the traffic.
In my humble opinion, Marple is getting too big, and has lost the "village" feel that it had when I moved here 22 years ago. One of the lovely and unique things about Marple is the variety of small local shops, and although I do the bulk of my shopping in Sainsburys, I visit the local butchers, fishman and greengrocers weekly, as well as the deli for special cheeses, gifts etc. The quality of meat and fresh veg is a million times better than from supermarkets.
And I use the co-op for extras at least weekly, ok so it's not huge, but it stocks the basics and I have never found the staff to be any worse than in any supermarket.
Just my opinion though


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 15, 2011, 08:02:05 PM
If Tesco is pure speculation ( which I very much hope it is ) why have Littlewoods Butchers started a petition in opposition  ???  I do not go to Littlewoods as I am a veggie, does anyone know where they gained their information from?   I am still awaiting replies from councillors, planning and our MP but to date the only person who has had the decency to reply is Andrew Bispham.   Would it not  seem more environmentally friendly to address the failings of the Co op by speaking or complaining about their poor stock and second rate veg ? Than to have huge lorries transporting goods into Marple which are already in abundance in other small local shops.    I sometimes think the worlds gone mad because on one hand we are recycling like crazy to protect the environment and then we fail to consider the effects to the place we live in by allowing unnecessary developments such as allowing a multi billion land grabbing company like Tesco to bully their way in.
What I also dont understand is if the population is growing and more housing is required why do we not require schools and colleges in Marple !  Oh I have got it now !!!  We close the schools and college, build more houses and a new supermarket !  Then have to take our children to an out of area school by car ?  THATS WHY I AM NOT IN POWER I CAN NOT THINK LOGICALLY !  SHAME  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on June 15, 2011, 08:36:52 PM
Well said moorendman!  We all shop in the big supermarkets from time to time - but the Co-op is not at all bad, and often has offers to rival the others.  Plus free delivery, and local staff that you get to know over time.  I shall be very interested to eventually find out what is the actual truth, rather than all these rumours!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 15, 2011, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: Councillor Bispham
All planning applications succeed eventually. Planning is exactly like playing poker. Only when you give up do you fail.

While I appreciate his candid opinion on the proposal, it's heartening to see the Poynton folk weren't quite so defeatist as the councillor.  Local folk should be entitled to a say in their environment and the success or failure of a development shouldn't just come down to who has the fat wallet.

After they won their battle with Tesco, their campaign website was taken down, but it's still possible to view a copy of it via archive.org here (http://web.archive.org/web/20081120171000/http://www.poyntonagainsttesco.co.uk/).
Dont they now have a lagest waitrose now in Poynton .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rsh on June 17, 2011, 01:40:31 AM
Tescos wouldn't bring any more traffic - the same number of people will do the same amount of shopping ... they just won't have to drive into Stockport or Hazel Grove to do it. I can't imagine many people from outside deliberately driving into Marple because a new supermarket has opened there. Nor can I imagine any decent small shop in the centre of Marple suffering: the supermarkets simply don't sell the same things.
Agreed with that. It's strange that a village the size of Marple has had that single Co-op for so long. While I'd hate us to be overrun with chains like Hazel Grove, it probably ends up being to the detriment of Marple and its local shops that so many people end up driving out of the town to do their shopping.

Having said that, because the land is raised from the road anything built there would really dominate the environment. One of Tesco's standard white boxes (like at Whaley Bridge, about the size I presume they'd want for Marple) would look absolutely terrible, for example. Hopefully if any of this is true, people wouldn't waste too much energy on an outright "no" (which might get overturned) but push 'em to design something with at least an ounce of building quality...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on June 18, 2011, 08:58:59 AM
If Tesco is pure speculation ( which I very much hope it is ) why have Littlewoods Butchers started a petition in opposition  ???  I do not go to Littlewoods as I am a veggie, does anyone know where they gained their information from?

It is our understanding that the petiition in Littlewoods Butchers was placed there by one of their customers - it is not being run or managed by Littlewoods themselves.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on June 18, 2011, 09:01:06 AM
One of the lovely and unique things about Marple is the variety of small local shops. and although I do the bulk of my shopping in Sainsburys, I visit the local butchers, fishman and greengrocers weekly, as well as the deli for special cheeses, gifts etc. The quality of meat and fresh veg is a million times better than from supermarkets.

Couldn't agree more.  The quality of produce from your local independents is far better than that usually found in the supermarkets.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 25, 2011, 07:04:53 PM
Well said moorendman!  We all shop in the big supermarkets from time to time - but the Co-op is not at all bad, and often has offers to rival the others.  Plus free delivery, and local staff that you get to know over time.  I shall be very interested to eventually find out what is the actual truth, rather than all these rumours!!
             Glad you dont think its not bad today sat 25 june very few veg alot of the shelves big gaps in them i went with a list of five items icame back with two . if you call that not bad . ROLL ON TESCO .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 25, 2011, 09:23:26 PM
A Tesco Extra would be a great idea in the Bridge possibly use the Norfolk  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 27, 2011, 02:25:04 PM
Not big enough
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 04:05:16 PM
Not big enough
We could ask for it to be on two floors  ;D. In fact Tesco Extras are only small stores.  Hey I might suggest it to them !  It will save on  the increased traffic into Marple and everyone in the Bridge will be happy with the well stocked shelves. Do you know I amaze myself sometimes with my insight and forward planning ideas  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on June 27, 2011, 04:19:36 PM
you certainly amaze us with your ideas..






and by amaze I mean bewilder  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 27, 2011, 06:52:50 PM
good fun  :)[ no trees would need removing if this went ahead ] 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 27, 2011, 09:13:11 PM
Tesco Extra are their largest stores. As in the Stockport one.

I think you mean Tesco Express, which are convenience stores.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 10:15:20 PM
Tesco Extra are their largest stores. As in the Stockport one.

I think you mean Tesco Express, which are convenience stores.
Yes that's the one Harry thank you !  You can tell I don't get out of Marple much  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 10:39:31 PM
you certainly amaze us with your ideas..






and by amaze I mean bewilder  ;)
Awh cheers mate !   I try my best  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 27, 2011, 11:29:46 PM
good fun  :)[ no trees would need removing if this went ahead ] 
Now your on my wave length Amazon !!!  I can see your warming to the idea  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 12, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Contacted planning dept today to be told there have been no plans as yet submitted but that they could be in pre planning and if they are there would be now way of knowing !   The best advise they could give was to keep a look out for a public notice which will be posted within the site area !  I have contacted a couple of local councillors and The press so I am waiting for their response  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 12, 2011, 11:56:50 PM
I have contacted a couple of local councillors and The press so I am waiting for their response  ???
I suspect you have asked councillors to look for something that isn't there, tesco would not permission on a green field site. I'd like to see traders open later and likes of tesco would have too much competition.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 13, 2011, 07:42:09 AM
Over the last few weeks I have been doing some digging with various local contacts and here are the facts.

The college wants to sell the Hibbert Lane site to raise funds to redevelop the Buxton Lane site.

If the land was sold for housing it would raise about £4M, if sold for retail development around £12M would be generated.

The college principal does not want this discussed with even the staff as last time this happened the general public became aware very quickly.

A company (I don't know who) have already been round the site looking at the useability of the site.

If any councillor voiced opposition to any proposed development then they would not be allowed to vote when the development came before the local area committee.

I would suggest that the only effective way that local people can voice their opposition to the site being used for Retail development is by signing a local petition, if there is enough support for this can it be arranged to be on-line using this site? With the new planning guidelines being introduced planners have got to take into account local views and this just might be enough to frighten off any developer.

And before anyone asks I'm not at liberty to name any of my sources, but I haven't hacked into anyone's mobile messages!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on July 13, 2011, 07:46:44 AM
I was told by a member of staff  at the college, that they want the money to build a new college on Buxton lane, but staff have not been told and are not allowed to know, who the interested parties are  for buying the land on Hibbert lane .

Confirming what Victor M is saying  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 13, 2011, 09:13:47 AM
I would suggest that the only effective way that local people can voice their opposition to the site being used for Retail development is by signing a local petition, if there is enough support for this can it be arranged to be on-line using this site? With the new planning guidelines being introduced planners have got to take into account local views and this just might be enough to frighten off any developer.

As said 'planners have got to take into account local views'. So the petition should not be just for those against, but also for the many who are for this development. Lets get a balanced view.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 13, 2011, 09:22:27 AM
I think people should also realise that by objecting to these proposed plans they are actively trying to prevent the college from generating £8m (1) of much needed finance.

If the college were to close, where would our young people go to further their education?


(1) If Victor's figures are correct, as i suspect they are.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 11:49:25 AM
Credit where credits due Councillor Bispham is the only councillor to date who has replied.  I think an on line petition would be a good idea but first the residents who will be directly affected by the proposed development need alerting to the possible proposal.   I have suggested a public meeting at the library when a little more is known and to advertise this with posters and door to door alerting.  There is a freedom of information act which probably would not work where there are issues of commercial confidentiality   COME ON OTHER LOCAL COUNCILLORS !!!! why are you not showing any intrest in matters which may directly affect or local area . It's the one time I wish that there was a local election looming.  Not to worry though there is a Local Area Committee Meeting in Marple  at the end of this month where all our local councillors will be along with our MP I hope by then we will have enough information to put to them.  NB if anyone sees a notice put up by the planning dept in that vicinity can you let me know ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 02:40:21 PM
Just out of interest has the Marple  Business forum  gained  the views of local traders and if so is it positive or negative regarding Tesco  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 02:57:44 PM
Just contacted Marple 6th Form College and asked about the proposed development.  I have been told that Christina Cassidy (principle) Mike Shaw (deputy principle) or Andrew Hubert (finance ) will contact me Asap about the matter.  Don't think I will hold my breath  :-\. But who knows   It sounded very much like I was not the first caller as I was told that they would be very happy to discuss the development  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 13, 2011, 05:05:32 PM
With regard to the College closing, from what info I have been able to gather there is no question mark at present over student numbers, the college at present has enough students to fund itself. Questions need to be asked of the Governing body as to why they didn't apply for funding earlier, while it was still available, and why £12M needs to be spent on new buildings. The college also has a moral responsibility to the people of Marple that they don't change the fabric and infrastructure to the detriment of the local area.

With regard to involving Marple local councillors and MP, if they make any negative comment at all about the proposed development before the planning meeting then they will be barred from voting, and I think speaking at that meeting. Please bear this in mind when trying to involve them. They may well appear to be uninterested, when in fact they are only trying to keep their powder dry.

As for a balanced view, great all those in favour of such a development organise a separate petition!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 13, 2011, 05:31:56 PM
With regard to the College closing, from what info I have been able to gather there is no question mark at present over student numbers, the college at present has enough students to fund itself. Questions need to be asked of the Governing body as to why they didn't apply for funding earlier, while it was still available, and why £12M needs to be spent on new buildings.

The college will only discover how many students they will have in the next academic year, after enrolment, which starts at the end of August. Until then its just guesswork.

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 13, 2011, 05:44:57 PM
Miss Marple has received a reply from Cllr. Susan Ingham that she has asked me to post on her behalf:

From: "Susan Ingham"
Date: 13 July 2011 15:11:10 GMT+01:00
To: "Miss Marple'"
Cc: Cllr Shan Alexander, Cllr Kevin Dowling, Cllr Martin Candler, Cllr Craig Wright, Cllr Andrew Bispham

Subject: RE: Tesco coming to Marple

Dear "Miss Marple"

Thank you for your recent email. I'm replying as Chair of the Area Committee and (on) behalf of the Marple Councillors.

My understanding of this situation is this;

The College needs to sell the Hibbert Lane Campus to raise funds to enhance the facility on Buxton Lane. We don't know who they may sell the land to, only that they are in the process of identifying suitable buyers.

There are currently no planning applications for any development on that site, either housing or supermarkets.

From a planning point of view the Hibbert Lane land is designated for housing.  Retail developments are only permitted within the District Centre and the Hibbert Lane Campus does not fall within the District Centre. As such any planning application to build a supermarket on that site would be opposed by Planning as being against the District Planning Policy.

I hope that answers your question.

Kindest regards
Sue Ingham
Chair of Marple Area Committee
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 13, 2011, 06:00:31 PM
A hot topic at the moment is the rumour that Cheadle and Marple College may sell the Hibbert Lane campus site to a large supermarket chain. Some are for this and others against it and it looks like staying a hot topic for some time to come. This is a straw poll to establish the consensus of registered users on the forum. If you are a visitor to the site and wish to vote you will need to register. All registrations are manually approved, so please be patient. If you register using a yahoo, gmail, msn or similar type of email address it will take longer as additional checks are conducted due to so many spammers using these types of email accounts.

In order not to sway the votes you cannot see the poll results until you have voted  :-X

The poll has now been merged with the "Tesco" topic.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 06:08:52 PM
There is also the issue of possibly pulling down the original Willows building which was built in 1934. I feel that to continue to loose these buildings for example The Bowling Green. The Liberal Club. The Jolly Sailor. West Towers. To name just a few would result in Marple loosing it's unique quality and possibly ending up like Milton Keynes   I say enough is enough and to people who have chosen to move to Marple from elsewhere surely it was  something to do with it's uniqueness that you choose to move here.  I would doubt very much if people who were born and breed here are happy to see all our wonderful childhood memories being wiped of the face of the earth in an attempt to make money under that old chestnut called progress. And seriously how much more traffic can Marple take, be it Tesco or Housing the roads are bad enough ! I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on July 13, 2011, 07:19:29 PM
"To name just a few would result in Marple loosing it's unique quality and possibly ending up like Milton Keynes   I say enough is enough and to people who have chosen to move to Marple from elsewhere surely it was  something to do with it's uniqueness that you choose to move here.  I would doubt very much if people who were born and breed here are happy to see all our wonderful childhood memories being wiped of the face of the earth in an attempt to make money under that old chestnut called progress. And seriously how much more traffic can Marple take, be it Tesco or Housing the roads are bad enough ! I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !"


Marple won't lose it's unique quality and end up like Milton Keynes, I know MK quite well and it is soulless, something Marple hopefully never will be.
However I chose to move to Marple 22 years ago and we have loved it here, but life moves on, the kids have left and its time to move on, maybe to somewhere a bit more rural. You can't stop progress, Marple is not a village, it's a large town, and not really where I want to spend the rest of my life. As for Marple having nothing for young people, I disagree. Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, Tennis Club, Cricket Club, Football Clubs, Rugby Club, Carver theatre, Cinema, Swimming Pool, Parks - and probably more that I don't know about!  Good lord what more do you want?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 13, 2011, 07:24:57 PM
Just out of interest has the Marple  Business forum  gained  the views of local traders and if so is it positive or negative regarding Tesco  ???

The views of the members of the Marple Business Forum are currently similiar to the views expressed in this topic - some for it, some against and a large number holding their opinion until more facts are know.

The only facts we know at present are:
- The college would like to sell the Hibbert Lane site in order to raise funds.  Obviously, they would like to raise as much funding from the sale as possible.
- Any planning application entered for retail developement on the land should be rejected by SMBC.  Although, if an application went to appeal what would happen is anyones guess.

The only thing that we can surmise with reasonable certainty is that something is going to happen to the land - the college can't afford to keep it and nobody is going to buy it to do nothing with.

So whether it's domestic, retail or industrial some development will happen eventually.

The Marple Business Forum intends to discuss this matter at it's September meeting and come up with a stance and contingency plan for what might happen to the land (please note that this will be a closed meeting open to current members only).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 13, 2011, 08:21:30 PM
Why is everything always a closed meeting !  What do people talk about that they don't want people to hear. I thought only the Masons did that ?    And more to the point what do shop keepers talk about that is MI 5 stuff and deemed too secretive for the public  !  Oh my god its not the price of FISH is it  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on July 13, 2011, 08:54:36 PM
With regard to the College closing, from what info I have been able to gather there is no question mark at present over student numbers, the college at present has enough students to fund itself. Questions need to be asked of the Governing body as to why they didn't apply for funding earlier, while it was still available, and why £12M needs to be spent on new buildings.

The college will only discover how many students they will have in the next academic year, after enrolment, which starts at the end of August. Until then its just guesswork.

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

As there isn't really a lot of competition in terms of sixth form colleges in the local area I think the question should be why the college is short of money, especially if they ARE recruiting enough students. Also I've noticed that a lot of other colleges (like the one in Hyde) have had nice new buildings without selling their land to Tesco so what's happened with the one in Marple?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on July 13, 2011, 09:03:52 PM
"To name just a few would result in Marple loosing it's unique quality and possibly ending up like Milton Keynes   I say enough is enough and to people who have chosen to move to Marple from elsewhere surely it was  something to do with it's uniqueness that you choose to move here.  I would doubt very much if people who were born and breed here are happy to see all our wonderful childhood memories being wiped of the face of the earth in an attempt to make money under that old chestnut called progress. And seriously how much more traffic can Marple take, be it Tesco or Housing the roads are bad enough ! I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !"


Marple won't lose it's unique quality and end up like Milton Keynes, I know MK quite well and it is soulless, something Marple hopefully never will be.
However I chose to move to Marple 22 years ago and we have loved it here, but life moves on, the kids have left and its time to move on, maybe to somewhere a bit more rural. You can't stop progress, Marple is not a village, it's a large town, and not really where I want to spend the rest of my life. As for Marple having nothing for young people, I disagree. Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, Tennis Club, Cricket Club, Football Clubs, Rugby Club, Carver theatre, Cinema, Swimming Pool, Parks - and probably more that I don't know about!  Good lord what more do you want?

Chicken lady ,  if ever there was a post that I could have written, then you have done it for me  ...... I totaly agree with you x x  my children have more things to do here than really  what they know to do with , its fab !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 13, 2011, 09:28:42 PM
Why is everything always a closed meeting !  What do people talk about that they don't want people to hear. I thought only the Masons did that ?    And more to the point what do shop keepers talk about that is MI 5 stuff and deemed too secretive for the public  !  Oh my god its not the price of FISH is it  :-\

I'll tackle your questions one-by-one:
- It isn't - this will be the first one I can remeber the Marple Business Forum ever having
- Nothing - you'll hear what our stance on this subject is after the meeting
- Their not
- Secrecy has nothing to do with it - the purpose of the meeting is for the members to come to a unified decision on the stance they want their local trade body to take on this one subject.  Therefore, it can only be open to members.
- No
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on July 13, 2011, 09:40:42 PM
is it just me or do others shake their head when Miss Marple posts on here? I'm all for tradition but life moves on and  for the future generations buildings have to be knocked down or built.  I was born here in Marple and will no doubt die here, I have no plans to leave.

I would like another supermarket in Marple, I think it is something we need. I'm not saying I think it should be on Hibbert Lane but in Marple. I try to shop local but refuse to do my weekly shop in the co-op.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: madgranite on July 13, 2011, 10:06:55 PM
Dear all,

I'm a new member to the forum and have recently got wind of the Tesco saga through my neighbours in Hawk Green.  I am totally against Tesco (or any other) supermarket moving into Marple.  Have you heard anything more by way of petitions, etc? I have been on the Stockport Council planning pages and cannot see any submissions (yet). Tesco cannot be allowed to get their grubby hands on Marple...

Brett
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on July 14, 2011, 12:05:32 AM
Although I would prefer to see more council housing being built on the site of the college, I fully support the prospect of a new Tesco.

Marple needs another supermarket.
Competition is healthy for businesses.
More people will come to Marple.
Jobs will be created.
The swimming pool will close (it is just a drain on finances).

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jo Scarlett on July 14, 2011, 02:51:51 PM
In response to 'marpudlian' ........

More council housing is not the answer, this would only create problems for our community.  Affordable housing is what is required, this would enable the young families of Marple to stay in Marple and bring their own children up here.

How can you say that the swimming pool is a drain on resources....... do you go often?  Every morning the 3 or 4 local primary schools use the pool to provide swimming lessons for the children.  Most afternoons the pool operates swimming lesssons, most having waiting lists.  During the day there are swimtots and public swimming for everyone and as a user of the pool I can confirm that these sessions are well attended.  Within the swimming pool complex there is also a VERY well attended gym.  There are sessions for all ages and persons rehabilitating from injuries etc attending both the pool and gym.

I for one, feel that there are many benefits to living in Marple, we have our own cinema, we have our own shopping centre, we have parks and canals, we have our own swimming pool and all these places make Marple a great place to live.   Whilst I agree that the pool probably does cost more to run than it should do, that's simply down to poor management from the local authority as a little money spent every year would have helped to keep it in a good state of repair, instead of it now needing a total overhaul.  The pool creates a place to meet for many and I often see people during the day sitting having a coffee after they've been for a swim.

As for building a TESCO in Marple -  I would strongly object to this.  I agree that competition is good for retailers, but it would kill off many retailers on Market Street and I doubt would have a huge impact on the Coop.  I wish the Coop hadn't moved across the road to Hollins Lane from Market Street, as this split peoples shopping habits and took custom off the retailers on Market Street.  I use Tesco for my main shop but am happy to go to Stockport or Handforth or use internet shopping rather than have one on my doorstep with the additional traffic it would bring into Marple.

A separate topic has been created for discussion of closing Marple swimming pool (and library). Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Trader on July 14, 2011, 03:18:27 PM
I was interested in the various replies re Tesco but amazed to think that some people imagine that having a Tescos or other larger supermarket would not impact on the future of local businesses either within Marple or the surrounding area.  Why do people think that local villages are declining - mainly because these large supermarkets have opened up, stock everything that local businesses sell and buy at a far cheaper price than local shop-keepers can purchase them for as they buy in bulk!!  Local traders cannot compete with these people.  They may bring money and improvements to the area but they also force out the local traders - once your local traders have disappeared there will be no bringing them back - they cannot compete!! Think very seriously before this is approved it may bring money to the college which in a way I don't blame them but Marple village will decline more than it is now.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on July 14, 2011, 04:08:08 PM
Truth is though that people shop differently nowadays..

I've lived in Marple almost all my 43yrs but Mrs Tricky and I simply don't have the time to shop in the same way as people (with no other choice) once had to do.

Most local traders, whilst I wish them well, simply can't offer the flexibility in opening hours that I, and so many people, require.

We mostly 'shop' online after the kids have gone to bed, and then we have it delivered at a time that suits us. This, to me, just seems so civilised! (& I hate shopping to be fair)


I'm not totally sure why I should feel I have to pay more for my goods just because they are sold to me by someone who has a shop in the village. Sorry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 14, 2011, 09:47:56 PM
Just been speaking to a friend and local resident of Marple  who attended the last area council meeting in Marple.  My friend and a group of concerned residents had attended the meeting due to wanting the councillors to take action on Church Lane in Marple where HGVs are mounting the pavement as they try to negotiate the small one way road which is often lined with parked cars.   The residents were requesting various options to stop the heavy traffic but were informed that at present no monies were available to undertake any kind of modifications.   Later outside the meeting my friend and a group of residents were speaking to a council official from the Highways Dept who informed them quite openly that Tesco had already put forward proposals to purchase the Hibbert Lane site and if granted Tesco would fund road improvements in the area.  My friend wants to point out that this was said outside the meeting to a small group of around 6 local residents and not in the meeting or in front of the Councillors  :-\.  Seems like it may already be done and dusted  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 14, 2011, 09:56:39 PM
Off-topic post overwritten. Please stay on topic. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 07:54:43 AM
Truth is though that people shop differently nowadays..

I've lived in Marple almost all my 43yrs but Mrs Tricky and I simply don't have the time to shop in the same way as people (with no other choice) once had to do.

Most local traders, whilst I wish them well, simply can't offer the flexibility in opening hours that I, and so many people, require.

We mostly 'shop' online after the kids have gone to bed, and then we have it delivered at a time that suits us. This, to me, just seems so civilised! (& I hate shopping to be fair)

I'm not totally sure why I should feel I have to pay more for my goods just because they are sold to me by someone who has a shop in the village. Sorry.

That is a fair point, both myself and the Duchess of Fame get home at 7.30 - 8pm & the shops are all shut except the co-op.

Perhaps the traders ass'n need to organise themselves for havinga late night Thursday where all the food shops open late. This would perhaps put Tesco off on a commercial basis ratehr than a NImby basis
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 08:06:26 AM
Off-topic posts overwritten. Please stay on topic. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 10:28:12 AM
I for one say that there should be no development on the site and the land used for the youth of Marple For which there is nothing !

That's just unrealistic. There are two options:

i - The college continues as it is (although perhaps selling part of the unused grounds may help)
ii - It sells the plot for commercial development.

For most, (i) is favorable. Certainly the grounds to the left of the college seem wasted and the college could raise funds by selling this for housing, business or even a small supermarket. There doesn't seem to be the pressure on the finances for the college in the same way Stockport College has got itself into a mess. The reason is more likely to be that it hasn't got itself into grandiose schemes. However, if the "objection group" suggest a level of development that they feel is acceptable, perhaps the college may go for the path of least resistance.

(ii) appears most likely, For me a 'big' supermarket is not needed, the co-op pretty much do all that is required and Tesco are hardly likely to offer better prices + they have a store just off the A6. There will be significant traffic and I think that is where the best objection lies. I’d prefer a mix of housing and light industrial / business premises on the site if it were to be sold.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 15, 2011, 11:00:30 AM
I have just received a telephone call from Andrew Hubert (Finance ) Ridge College who stated that no formal proposals have been submitted to the council but that they have been involved with various interested developers.   I have asked if he would agree to attend a public meeting whereby all local residents can hear what proposals have been made from interested parties   Mr Hubert agreed that it would be possible to attend a public meeting but will have to check this out with the principal of the school who is not around until next week,and that he would get back to me.
It is hoped that the Libaray would be a possible venue I will await the agreement of the principal prior to booking the room
I have also contacted our local reporter who has been following the development on this site and I hope that we can work closely with all relevant people to ensure that Local People have a say in what's happening in our community, Village , Town or whatever
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 15, 2011, 11:15:16 AM
Sorry forgot to ask if people on the site are interested in attending the meeting ( you can remain anonymous ) if so will you post and let me know or send me a personal email
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 15, 2011, 01:34:47 PM
Sorry forgot to ask if people on the site are interested in attending the meeting ( you can remain anonymous ) if so will you post and let me know or send me a personal email

I'd certainly attend but I do think we must not jump to conclusions, he's indicated to you that there are a number of interested parties. The assumption is it's goign to be some huge Tesco. I think it's an excellent opportunity to offer an opinion as to what would be acceptable in terms of development. It's fairly obvious that the college would like to cash in their chips in some way and that is not going to be some altrusitic action that doesn't raise any money.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 15, 2011, 08:08:50 PM
Hi Duke Fame I agree with what you are saying but the only concern I have are the words ' No Formal' to me, but I could be wrong, means that the proposals are not in the formal planning stage but that they could be in pre planning, which no one will get to know about until they are at the formal planning stage.  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 16, 2011, 01:21:25 AM
Isn't it strange that the Peacefield school site hasn't been snapped up,or has it?It is obviously very well situated for the redevelopment of CAMSFC If the Hibbert Lane site is sold.Does anyone know who owns the Hibbert Lane campus land?The LEA,SMBC or the college itself maybe.I for one hope it is not SMBC or it could be a case of Signed ,Sealed, Delivered  Tesco's  yours!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 07:02:24 AM
Isn't it strange that the Peacefield school site hasn't been snapped up,or has it? It is obviously very well situated for the redevelopment of CAMSFC If the Hibbert Lane site is sold.Does anyone know who owns the Hibbert Lane campus land?The LEA,SMBC or the college itself maybe.I for one hope it is not SMBC or it could be a case of Signed ,Sealed, Delivered  Tesco's  yours!

A group of concerned residents got together last night to discuss the rumours about the sale of the college site. The first step agreed was to write to a number of organisations including the college and the council to try and establish some hard facts about the situation. These will include questions about the present ownership of the campus land and the history of ownership and transfer details. When the letters have been sent they will be published on the web site for everyone to see, as will any replies that are received.

With regard to the Peacefield site - I have been told by a number of sources that this land cannot be built on for 10 years and believe this to be true, although I must admit I don't understand the reasons why this is the case. I have been told that MESS (www.marple-uk.com/mess) would like to turn the Peacefield site into allotments because there is a huge waiting list for these in the area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 08:55:00 AM
That's great !!!  The more people asking questions and organising themselves must be better than just waiting for the deed to be done.  I thought at one point I was talking to myself , well done for getting involved  Can you keep us all up to speed by printing the minuets of the meetings and all correspondence on the site so everyones informed as to how it's developing   And thanks for the straw poll which speaks for itself ! Fantastic stuff !  I'm off to lie down now with a damp tea towel on my head it's been hard convincing people that I am not in the early stages of dementia  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 09:49:28 AM
That's great !!!  The more people asking questions and organising themselves must be better than just waiting for the deed to be done.  I thought at one point I was talking to myself , well done for getting involved  Can you keep us all up to speed by printing the minuets of the meetings and all correspondence on the site so everyones informed as to how it's developing   And thanks for the straw poll which speaks for itself ! Fantastic stuff !

I'm not sure why you thought you were talking to yourself as you were invited to last night's meeting and decided not to attend. I think that was a shame. Some aspects of a campaign like is now getting underway would be far better if coordinated together rather than independently - such as requests made under the freedom of information act for example. It can be a problem if two sources request the same information and they can also be played off against each other. I still think it would be of all-round benefit for you to become involved with this group and I know that you would be welcomed as this was discussed too.

Whatever you decide with regard to that, the group has agreed to try and support you as much as it can even if you choose to "go it alone". However, it is important to be well prepared for meetings with the college and council, especially in public. The people that attended last night are well placed to try and encourage the support that is almost certainly going to be needed from many of our local community groups and will hope to do so once some facts have been established.

As regards keeping everyone up to speed - I did say in my earlier message that all correspondence will be published on-line and letters will be made available as soon as they have been drafted and agreed. An open and transparent approach will be taken. I hope you will continue to share any information that you obtain too, as you have done to date.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 16, 2011, 10:27:54 AM
Post overwritten as it has no relevance to the topic. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 16, 2011, 11:55:45 AM
The meeting was obviously a closed shop as I cannot see an open invitation.Yes I realise short notice,venue etc,Why was Miss M asked to attend?That in itself is not a problem as she has suggested a meeting on this forum.If it is not a too personal question? did you have a previous engagement?or would you prefer an on mass' protest/meeting? I think it is worth considering the thought that while everyone involved is "Going for Tesco" Morrisons,Asda etc could be sneaking in the back door unchallenged. A back door server you could say :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 12:48:45 PM
The meeting was obviously a closed shop as I cannot see an open invitation.Yes I realise short notice,venue etc,Why was Miss M asked to attend?That in itself is not a problem as she has suggested a meeting on this forum.If it is not a too personal question? did you have a previous engagement?or would you prefer an on mass' protest/meeting? I think it is worth considering the thought that while everyone involved is "Going for Tesco" Morrisons,Asda etc could be sneaking in the back door unchallenged. A back door server you could say :o

The meeting was arranged at short notice and had to be held in the home of one of the residents organising it because an alternative venue could not be found. An open invitation was not a practical option, nor particularly desirable at this stage because so few facts are available. The first objective is to try and find out some facts that can then be shared with the wider community. It was suggested that Miss M be invited because of her obvious interest in doing something about this issue, which is plain to see from her forum posts. I approached Miss M through the forum and she agreed that I could pass on her details so that invite could be sent. A similar invite was sent to Victor M for the same reasons but unfortunately he had a prior engagement and could not attend.

I think your other questions are addressed to Miss M.

With regard to your final point - that's a good one and it is recognised that although Tescos is always cited in the rumours the others are possible candidates too. The approach to seeking information will take that into account.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 03:07:33 PM
Yes Trixie, I was invited to last nights meeting but unfortunately could not attend because I  had a prior engagement with an Owl, it's the highlight of my month!  I do and will support the group and intend if a mutually convenient time is arranged  to attend the next meeting when that date is known. My opinion is , and it is only an opinion, that it is irrelevant at this stage to use the Freedom of Information act and wait for replies to letters.  It is nearly 2 months ago when I was alerted to the information that Tesco was interested in purchasing the sight. Heaven knows how much lead Tesco has on us now    We could in my opinion never stop Tesco from purchasing the site (see Andrew Bispham's early email) but what we could do is start letting Tesco or whoever know  that we have public opposition to them developing the site.  I am mindful that not everyone has access to the Internet or even a computer so the old fashioned way of getting the message out to the community has to be done the hard way IE door to door, signatures and just raising public awareness.  Having said all that the group that has set up can compliment this by doing the ground work on who owns this and that as it is all very useful information and will eventually prove a powerful tool but ,  my first intention is to start raising awareness via the local press and it is hoped that via the free paper all interested parties can be party to what's happening.  I have no intention whatsoever of entering into talks with Tesco about what we could get in exchange for allowing Tesco to move in which may in fact not go down well with some people.  My stance is that Tesco and the likes are not welcomed here and no matter what they promise in return for the disruption and loss of small shops would ever Change my opinion.  There has been some very informative posts on this subject like the one that highlighted the power of the community in Poynton and the one that showed that all the promises of new facilities and assurances from Tesco were after planning was granted forgotten.  I hope this has answered your question Trixie but Remember this is only my opinion and will not be shared by some of the community . :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 16, 2011, 04:46:02 PM
Miss Marple - in your next communication with our good friends at Cheadle+Marple College, could you ask them to publish the recent Corporation+Committee meeting minutes ?

They all (Audit Committee, Corporation Committee, Estates Committee, Finance & General Committee, Search + Governance Committee, Teaching Committee) used to get published at least 4 times a year, but nothing has been made available at all this year.  See Minutes page (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47).

The last published minutes of the Estates Committee (17th June 2010 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf)) were particularly interesting, so could be worthwhile reading the subsequent ones.

The college are of course obliged legally to make such minutes available, see Instruments + Articles (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/instrument-and-articles.pdf), so I'm sure it's just an oversight rather than a veil of secrecy descending upon any nefarious motives.

Quote
(3) The Corporation shall ensure that a copy of the draft or signed minutes of every meeting of the Corporation, under paragraph (1), shall be placed on the institution’s website, and shall, despite any rules the Corporation may make regarding the archiving of such material, remain on its website for a minimum period of 12 months.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 16, 2011, 05:35:33 PM
Miss Marple - in your next communication with our good friends at Cheadle+Marple College, could you ask them to publish the recent Corporation+Committee meeting minutes ?

They all (Audit Committee, Corporation Committee, Estates Committee, Finance & General Committee, Search + Governance Committee, Teaching Committee) used to get published at least 4 times a year, but nothing has been made available at all this year.  See Minutes page (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47).

The last published minutes of the Estates Committee (17th June 2010 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf)) were particularly interesting, so could be worthwhile reading the subsequent ones.

The college are of course obliged legally to make such minutes available, see Instruments + Articles (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/instrument-and-articles.pdf), so I'm sure it's just an oversight rather than a veil of secrecy descending upon any nefarious motives.

Quote
(3) The Corporation shall ensure that a copy of the draft or signed minutes of every meeting of the Corporation, under paragraph (1), shall be placed on the institution’s website, and shall, despite any rules the Corporation may make regarding the archiving of such material, remain on its website for a minimum period of 12 months.

Spot on SGK - the absence of minutes on the college web site is one of the things that will be included in the first letter to the College Principal, however your highlighting of the Instruments + Articles is a useful reference that we had not spotted. Any other suggestions are welcome too.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 05:45:11 PM
Thanks SGK I have already requested those and the reasons why they were not published and awaiting the Principals return.   Fantastic how you have laid it all out Cheers  ;D. Looks like they do have something to hide ??
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 16, 2011, 06:02:32 PM
I'm sure Marple is safe in your hands Miss Marple  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 07:19:08 PM
I'm sure Marple is safe in your hands Miss Marple  ;D
Oh I am not sure about that Johnny Boy but I will do everything I can to oppose a land grabbing and land bagging giant like Tesco from destroying what's left of Marple And I hope I can count on your support  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 07:48:53 PM
I have just been reading back through the Previous  posts on this topic and was shocked to note that The Business forum states that it's SEPTEMBER !! When they are going to get round to discussing the contingency plans if Tesco purchases the land   Now I'm not a butcher, baker or candle stick maker but even I'm shocked at their laissez-faire attitude towards the possible demise of small business in Marple so sorry but I will have to ask!   Business Forum what is your stance on Tesco coming to town and do you REALLY think something as important as this can wait till September  :-\. Just a thought  :-X
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 16, 2011, 07:53:50 PM
I see nothing at all from the estates committee amongst others have published this year.You'd think they would of put out a "pacifier" knowing of the unrest around Marple. Very odd me thinks?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 08:10:58 PM
Another question I would like to ask The Business Forum, if it's not deemed a secret !!  What shops are affiliated to the Business forum ? are they just the ones who would not be affected by Tesco coming to town  because this all seems mighty strange to me, because if I was a shop keeper I would be worried! Very very worried ! :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on July 16, 2011, 08:37:40 PM
I am a forum member and am worried.

I attended the meeting Admin went to on Friday night.

I am following this thread with interest and agree with Admin that we all need to work together to find the facts.

All forum members are listed on the forum website.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 16, 2011, 08:42:01 PM
For what it's worth, I see there's a Freedom Of Information request out there, see this link (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supermarket_plans_in_marple_on_e)

Quote
Dear Stockport Borough Council,

Please could you furnish me with details of correspondence between Tesco, Turner and Townsend, Walsingham Planning, Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College and the council (officers and elected officials) and within the council with regard to plans for a supermarket on the existing college site in Marple?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 08:57:00 PM
Oh your fantastic !  Looks like Mr Corrie took it upon himself to speed things up.  Well at least that's saved one job.  Oh it's coming together nicely, I think you should change your name on the Forum to Inspector Clouseau  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 09:22:43 PM
I have just emailed Mr Corrie in the hope that he will reply and join us in the campaign, here's hoping :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 09:32:40 PM
I am a forum member and am worried.

I attended the meeting Admin went to on Friday night.

I am following this thread with interest and agree with Admin that we all need to work together to find the facts.

All forum members are listed on the forum website.


Of course we will all work together I just need to know what peoples interests are that's why I am asking the questions,  it's just that I am worried as to why The Business Forum isn't worried. But hey I might have got this all wrong and September may be a slip of the pen, here's hoping  :-X
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on July 16, 2011, 10:28:35 PM
Travelling on the bus today I overheard a conversation between two guys about this very subject, from what I could gather they took it as read that Tescos would be taking over and that the Buxton Lane site would be developed and expanded. So...it may be that this is the "word on the street", so to speak.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 16, 2011, 11:02:10 PM
Miss Marple,

I apologise if we've offended you in some way.  The tone of your posts towards the Marple Business Forum are overly aggressive and I'm not sure whyy.

In answer to your questions:
- The MBF does not have a 'laissez-faire attitude' towards the possible development of the Hibbert Lane site.  In fact, a member of the MBF has been monitoring this situation for over 5 years since it first came to light (as can be seen from previous threads on this Forum - the first one appearing 5 years & 4 months ago).

- The MBF currently has 134 members covering a wide spectrum of business classifications and sizes.  All members are listed on the MBF website.

- The MBF has not ever performed in secret.  I don't know where this has come from.

- The September meeting was chosen to discuss this issue in particular for pratical reasons.  The August meeting is normally poorly attented due to other commitments (holidays, staff holidays, children off school, buying periods, company year ends, etc).  It was felt that a subject this important should be discussed at a time convient to as large a portion of the membership as possible.  Also, by holding the meeting in September it gives time for clarifications and facts to be sort so that the debate can be held from a posistion of knowledge not rumour.

- Regarding the MBF's stance on this issue, as previously stated we are waiting until the facts are known and a debate within the organisation can be held before making a public declaration of our collective thoughts.  Clearly individual members have their own positions but we are not currently able to give a collective opinion for all 134 members.

I will be suggesting at the next meeting (in August) that a representitive of the MBF sits on the group that Admin mentioned in an earlier post (Mark - I trust this would be acceptable and welcomed by the group).  We can then co-operate to give a common message, strategy and course of action.  Furthermore, we can throw the weight of our membership, resources and sources of information behind the group (which, without wanting to be immodest, are considerable).

There are a huge number of benefits to being an organisation with a wide variety and large numbrer of different members - unfortunately that sometimes means we can't move as quickly as someone acting alone.  However, rest assured that once we are in a position to act you will be pleased by the speed, efficiency and strength that we show.

Please don't take our current position as indifference to the issue - but we must follow the rules of the organisation.  We can't speak for our members without first asking our members their opinions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 16, 2011, 11:14:36 PM
I thought the Buxton Lane campus was where Tescos were going to build us a new swimming pool?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 11:30:29 PM
You have known for five years and four months ?  Well I bet the local community didn't because I didn't know and neither did members of my family who live directly opposite  the college   So if The Business forum has been aware that there was a possibility that Tesco could be bagging land why oh why didn't you try to inform the community. Because it would appear that Mr Corrie who is at this moment seeking information under the freedom of information Act didn't know.   I am sorry if you feel my manner is aggressive but I think ANGER and CONFUSION would sum up my feelings right now !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 16, 2011, 11:35:42 PM
Miss Marple - this very forum has been discussing it for over 5 years ! 

See http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1003.0 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1003.0)



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 16, 2011, 11:49:45 PM
Yes I know there have been rumours on this site, but we are lay people. I am talking about The Business Forum monitoring the situation for five years and not doing some digging, they must know what happens in Business especially where Tesco is concerned.  Its just a shock to me and I am now concerned that it's all been agreed and it's been left too late . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 17, 2011, 12:27:42 AM
why didn't you try to inform the community

We didn't try and inform the community because we were told about the issue BY the community - it was first picked up off this very forum.

Of course we have consistently been seeking more up to date information, clarifications, information and 'digging' - that is what I meant by monitoring.

Where has this idea of a developer 'bagging land' come from?  This is something that hasn't been mentioned before.

You have answered your own question in your last post. Until recently the only thing that was known was the college wished to sell the site to raise funds.  All talk previously of developers was rumour (to quote) with no basis in fact.  Only now that the college have started talking to potential developers is there any truth to them and something to act on.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 17, 2011, 07:10:28 AM
If you do a search for "Tesco" from the front page of the forum you will find 27 topics going as far back as September 2005. Some of them are relevant to the situation today and others are not. Over the years the rumours have changed very little and I understand have been denied by the college in local newspapers (I don't know if anyone has the means to locate any old newspaper articles relating to this but I know that the Stockport Times / Express are monitoring this thread with interest - perhaps you folks can help with that? )

Here is a quote from 2006 for example:
As Peter mentioned below, he forwarded this thread to our Local Councillors. He has received the following reply from Councillor Shan Alexander:

Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College
The leisure Centres are closing to the public with effect from 31 December 2006. With membership and bookings declining in the face of increased competition it has not been possible to cover the cost of running the leisure Centres for a number of years. This decision has not been taken lightly. Given that the core business of the college is the provision of 16 to 19 education the college has reluctantly decided to take this decision to close this facility to the public. The Leisure centres will be still available to the students. There are very new and excellent facilities available at Marple Hall School.

Sale of land
Cheadle and Marple 6th form College has no intention of selling any land at present. They have asked for a feasibility study on the buildings at both sites. This is to look at the viability or otherwise of running a college on one site and to look at building a college of the future, fit for purpose to achieve the highest standards for students, teacher and all concerned. There has been no planning application sent to the planners at the council.

There is remarkably little outward change in the situation since that time, we don't really know any more hard facts at all but the situation must have moved on. The college have done quite a good job of keeping a lid on it so far but the issue has been festering away and the time now seems right to prick it. That things have come to a head  ;) are in no small way down to your anger and frustration Miss Marple but there is no benefit in alienating local organisations that are capable of getting behind you in a big way once they get moving.

Regarding MBF attending future meetings of the group of residents now also getting up a head of steam: I don't think that will be a problem as there were 5 members of Marple Business Forum and 3 from Marple Civic Society at the meeting on Friday. None were representing the views of those organisations but will obviously feed back what is going on to their members. In fact a key aim of this group is to gather information for the Business Forum to consider at their meeting in September and for the Civic Society to do the same.

So, lets not spend our time bickering and falling out on here but pool information and pull together to discover exactly where things are up to and what we can do about it as a community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 17, 2011, 09:17:57 AM
I see that as well as the previously mentioned FOI request (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/supermarket_plans_in_marple_on_e) served on the council, another has been served on the college itself.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/building_of_supermarket_on_exist (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/building_of_supermarket_on_exist)

Quote
Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,

Please could you furnish me with details of correspondence between supermarket chains, Turner and Townsend, Walsingham Planning, Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College staff, Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College governors, and within the college with regard to plans
for a supermarket on the existing college site in Marple?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie.

I wonder if it's worth someone raising one regarding the college's understanding of the covenant in place after they inherited the land from the old "Marple Ridge" college?  As it was generously donated by the people of Marple many years ago, I suspect there could be some clause in there expressly discouraging/banning the "garage sale" of the land to house builders or commercial interests.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 09:22:27 AM
Admin I have emailed you two Freedom of information requests that Mr Corrie has sent to both the college and SMBC requesting information  (if anyone is interested you can click on the link provided by SGK and you can follow what's happening by registering on the site).  Admin I have read with intrest your reply and disagree totally, the reason being is that even Mr Corrie has tried to gain information by submitting an application for the right to freedom of information to SMBC and from what I can see the Business Forum is still waiting to have a meeting even though if represents hundreds of small businesses in and around Marple  I have not fallen out with anyone but I feel that people are delusional with their obsession about having meetings after meetings. Do you all really think that Tesco will be shaking in their boots if The Business Forum have a meeting !   If I was representing Business in Marple I would have had a contingency plan 5yrs ago when I got even the slightest hint of Tesco sniffing around  These are Business people ,mixing with other Business people, they must know more about what can happen to their lively hoods when someone like Tesco elbows their way in than anyone on this site.
I feel that I have posted enough on this subject so like everyone else I intend now  to just follow it with intrest  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 09:41:56 AM
You will be missed  :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 17, 2011, 10:48:26 AM
Well said Mark.

Regarding MBF attending future meetings of the group of residents now also getting up a head of steam: I don't think that will be a problem as there were 5 members of Marple Business Forum and 3 from Marple Civic Society at the meeting on Friday.

I wasn't aware of this, but it is positive news - it would appear that the MBF potentially have a working group on the issue right there. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 12:54:21 PM
Yes I know there have been rumours on this site, but we are lay people. I am talking about The Business Forum monitoring the situation for five years and not doing some digging, they must know what happens in Business especially where Tesco is concerned.  Its just a shock to me and I am now concerned that it's all been agreed and it's been left too late .  

Miss M, I think you need to step back for a moment. The business forum is no more clued up than anyone else.

I understand that the current situation is that the college has two sites, one of which it wants to monetarise. One of the ways to do this MAY be to sell the site to a supermarket chain.

You need to find out the reality of the situation rather than make things up and filling in gaps yourself and perhaps others need to stop taking things as fact from what is overheard on a bus.

If some public meeting can be arranged, establish the real facts and create a line in the sand, for which the opposition can be drawn. I think the stance of refusing to debate with Tesco themselves is both jumping the gun & not going to achieve anything

I'm not a business forum member in Marple but am elsewhere. These groups are not secretive but members do pay to join and they hope to be more powerful as a group rather than individuals. They should be treated as an ally rather than a group to be attacked for being supposedly a secret cult.    
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 01:45:19 PM
I am a new member but have been following this post before I joined. What I want to now is why the business forum didn't know about Tesco when at the start of this topic someone says that Littlewoods butcher have a pertition going and that was before June. And they are members of the Business forum I checked
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 17, 2011, 02:10:24 PM
At this stage sending letters to the college and others associated with the proposed purchase is pointless,  even if they do respond to your requests the information will be of little or no importance.
It would appear that Tesco are on the home straight and the good people of Marple who have genuine concerns and objections to the proposed purchase are not even off the starting blocks and in persuing this course of action alone will waste what little time if any we have left.

If Tesco wants to BUY the land and the college wants to SELL the land then there is nothing that anybody can do to prevent it.

If the sale goes ahead even without planning permission for a supermarket then there are only 2 possible outcomes both of which in my view will be bad for Marple.

1. Planning permission for the supermarket is granted even after a lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. It will however have minor compromises attached to the original proposals which will sereve to enable the people of Marple to claim victory but more importantly promote customer loyalty to the new store. However the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

2. Planning permission for the supermarket is declined due to the lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. Tesco still own the land and buildings and after many years of neglect and vandalism (bowling green, jolly sailor, anyone) the idea of a nice new supermarket doesn't seem that bad after all and the very same people that opposed the original application will be begging Tesco to redevelop the site. Again the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

I hope I have demonstrated that the fight right now isn't about the plans for a supermarket it is more about trying to deter Tesco from buying the site and a couple of letters here and there requesting information just isn't going to achieve that. What is needed is more direct action which involves the community as a WHOLE which will send a clear message to Tesco BEFORE THE SITE IS PURCHASED!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 02:21:54 PM
At this stage sending letters to the college and others associated with the proposed purchase is pointless,  even if they do respond to your requests the information will be of little or no importance.
It would appear that Tesco are on the home straight and the good people of Marple who have genuine concerns and objections to the proposed purchase are not even off the starting blocks and in persuing this course of action alone will waste what little time if any we have left.

If Tesco wants to BUY the land and the college wants to SELL the land then there is nothing that anybody can do to prevent it.

If the sale goes ahead even without planning permission for a supermarket then there are only 2 possible outcomes both of which in my view will be bad for Marple.

1. Planning permission for the supermarket is granted even after a lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. It will however have minor compromises attached to the original proposals which will sereve to enable the people of Marple to claim victory but more importantly promote customer loyalty to the new store. However the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

2. Planning permission for the supermarket is declined due to the lengthy campaign by Marple residents to oppose it. Tesco still own the land and buildings and after many years of neglect and vandalism (bowling green, jolly sailor, anyone) the idea of a nice new supermarket doesn't seem that bad after all and the very same people that opposed the original application will be begging Tesco to redevelop the site. Again the store is built and Marple and it's people have lost.

I hope I have demonstrated that the fight right now isn't about the plans for a supermarket it is more about trying to deter Tesco from buying the site and a couple of letters here and there requesting information just isn't going to achieve that. What is needed is more direct action which involves the community as a WHOLE which will send a clear message to Tesco BEFORE THE SITE IS PURCHASED!!

A few things quoted as fact there, is that definitely the case?

I think you analysis given the FACT that Tesco are definitely buying the plot is correct.

May I suggest, if these FACTS are right that the best way to fight Tesco would be to boycott their store. Activate the whole of Marple his them in the pocket. Where possible, shop locally, encourage the business forum to have a late Thursday where all the shops open til 9.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 17, 2011, 02:46:57 PM
At this stage sending letters to the college and others associated with the proposed purchase is pointless,  even if they do respond to your requests the information will be of little or no importance.

Not sure I agree, having read the advice on the Tescopoly "Every Little Hurts" site, who seem to be veterans of such skirmishes.

Take a look at I’ve heard a rumour that a new supermarket will open in my area (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=714) on there.  There's some interesting success stories (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=392&Itemid=123) on there too, before anyone starts thinking Marple Tesco is a "done deal".

I wonder at what stage we should register our campaign on their site?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 17, 2011, 03:00:08 PM
Quote
Activate the whole of Marple hit them in the pocket.

That would in my view be a little too late, it already seems difficult to activate/unite the residents of Marple to take action. Already groups have formed with different opinions on this website as to which is the best course of action if we are to believe these rumours are FACTual.

Quote
shop locally

People will be shopping locally at Tesco (keep up man)

Quote
have a late Thursday where all the shops open til 9

Not much use is Tesco decide to open 24hr which many do.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 03:03:45 PM
I would register Now don't wait any longer can you do it SGK
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 03:14:13 PM
I no !!!!!  But I just could not help it.   What a fantastic post Sky Guy it would be my opinion for what it's worth both you and SGK  are on the ball and can see the outcome if we continue to avoid direct action.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 03:20:12 PM
Quote
Activate the whole of Marple hit them in the pocket.

That would in my view be a little too late, it already seems difficult to activate/unite the residents of Marple to take action. Already groups have formed with different opinions on this website as to which is the best course of action if we are to believe these rumours are FACTual.

Quote
shop locally

People will be shopping locally at Tesco (keep up man)

Quote
have a late Thursday where all the shops open til 9

Not much use is Tesco decide to open 24hr which many do.



It's hardly too late, the College is still in hte hands of the college with the campus being used as intended now and in the next academic year.  

I suggest the shopping locally in existing shops so that Tesco's market research tells them of strong existing competition. Opening at times where Tesco may feel they have a USP will ward them off further.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 03:30:22 PM
Each time I visit this topic I see at least 6 or 7 guests viewing the Tesco topic.  Can I ask if you would register on the forum and enter in to the debate if Tesco coming to Marple will effect you or if you have tried to stop Tesco moving into your area and failed or succeeded.   Your views, help, advice, guidance support (for or against ) would be very welcome.  So please become part of the debate  ??? We need you !!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 17, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
ADMIN

May I suggest that if another meeting is held it is advertised on this site so that anyone wishing to attend is able to do so.

As I stated in a previous post the outcome of all of this will only be positive IF the community as a WHOLE is involved, informed and most important acts as one.

Regards

SkyGuy
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 04:36:13 PM
I agree we must ALL get together to oppose this at a large meeting open to all concerned residents mainly the ones who will be directly effected by any developments on the site.  MBF are invited when a venue is arranged if they would like to take up the offer ! At least we all be aware of the action plan ! This needs now to move up a gear   Admin would do you want me to see if we could book a room at the Library OR do you want to do this.  I have also contacted the campain in site thanks SGK to see what advice they have from experiences
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 17, 2011, 05:36:11 PM
Admin would do you want me to see if we could book a room at the Library OR do you want to do this.

Welcome back Miss M, you carry on and arrange a meeting as soon as you're ready, don't let me slow you down.

ADMIN May I suggest that if another meeting is held it is advertised on this site so that anyone wishing to attend is able to do so.

Of course Sky Guy. Any public meetings arranged will obviously be publicised on this site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 05:52:06 PM
Will do , and will start raising public awareness tomorrow  :o. Over and Out   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 17, 2011, 06:03:38 PM
Hi I am just checking to see if the business forum had answer my question.  Admin do you mean that you are going to meetings that are not open to the public ? Why ? sky guy asked for the next one to be a public one   ? And why are you not supporting miss marple getting a public netting
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 17, 2011, 06:22:30 PM
Having had a break from the forum for a while, I was interested to drop in (well it's too wet to walk the dog!), and read this lively thread. Most points of view seem to be well represented, although I do strongly agree with Harry, who seems to be a bit of a lone voice:

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

Both of the college buildings, inherited from Marple Ridge School, are leftovers from the worst period of school building, in the mid-twentieth century.  The College has done its best with its limited means to improve them, but honestly the best thing they could do is just to knock them both down and build a really good, up-to-date, energy-efficient purpose-built college which we could all be proud of and which our kids would queue up to attend, instead of getting on the bus to Aquinas.

Unfortunately, we live in straightened times, just in case anyone hasn't noticed, and I doubt whether there are any significant capital funds available from the Skills Funding Agency at the moment.  (Aquinas got under the wire in the nick of time, just before the demise of the late and unlamented Learning and Skills Council). So selling off the Hibbert Lane site for 12 million would probably do the job. 

One final and unrelated point, for Miss Marple: there is no need to panic about this: the wheels of the planning process, and of college governance,  grind exceedingly slowly.  The Business Forum will no doubt consider the matter in September and there is no reason to rush that through in August.  Better to have all members present and come to a proper and considered consensus.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 17, 2011, 07:03:06 PM
Jonnyboy, I believe you are referring to Post 35.

For the sake of clarification, the petition that was in Littlewoods Butchers (which appeared at the beginning of June) was not organised by the MBF. Nor was it to the best of our knowledge organised by any MBF member.  It is not known where this petition came from nor what has happened to it since.

It came to light at the begining of June, through a number of sources, that there were reports that the college were now talking with a number of potential developers (not just the chain reffered to in this thread).

As Mark said:
The college have done quite a good job of keeping a lid on it so far but the issue has been festering away and the time now seems right to prick it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 17, 2011, 07:22:39 PM
Having had a break from the forum for a while, I was interested to drop in (well it's too wet to walk the dog!), and read this lively thread. Most points of view seem to be well represented, although I do strongly agree with Harry, who seems to be a bit of a lone voice:

I understand that the Hibbert Lane site needs a lot of money spending on it in order to bring it up to current standards. This I can fully understand after having been in there a few years back. It makes good sense to to dispose of the old building and create a new, state of the art, learning centre that would be more conducive to education.

Both of the college buildings, inherited from Marple Ridge School, are leftovers from the worst period of school building, in the mid-twentieth century.  The College has done its best with its limited means to improve them, but honestly the best thing they could do is just to knock them both down and build a really good, up-to-date, energy-efficient purpose-built college which we could all be proud of and which our kids would queue up to attend, instead of getting on the bus to Aquinas.

Unfortunately, we live in straightened times, just in case anyone hasn't noticed, and I doubt whether there are any significant capital funds available from the Skills Funding Agency at the moment.  (Aquinas got under the wire in the nick of time, just before the demise of the late and unlamented Learning and Skills Council). So selling off the Hibbert Lane site for 12 million would probably do the job. 

One final and unrelated point, for Miss Marple: there is no need to panic about this: the wheels of the planning process, and of college governance,  grind exceedingly slowly.  The Business Forum will no doubt consider the matter in September and there is no reason to rush that through in August.  Better to have all members present and come to a proper and considered consensus.

I do agree that things aren't as urgent as suggested. The college will close down and important "lesson planning" will take place over the next 8 weeks.

I doubt if the building is really that difficult to operate a college from, but I do accept that the college is looking to cash in their chips in terms of realising the value of a building they no longer use to capacity.

I'm not sure where you get £12m from, without planning permission, the site is only worth the value of the buildings that stands on the site.

The worry is that as a college, the council get's nothing. As a commercial premises, the rates income could keep the council in self awareness officers for years.

I think everyone needs to accept that if the college wants to cash in, it's not going to remain a school. It's going to be a "something else" as it would help if we're clear as to what 'something else' is acceptable and what is not. I feel a large supermarket will decimate the other businesses in the town and whilst there is already many empty units (high rents & high business rates as much to blame), a Tesco would create a ghost town with sporadic charity shops.

I think in clarifying the objection you need to realise a few things. The individual nimby moans of Miss M or the Duke & Duchess of Fame are not going to count for much. Real objections on traffic levels etc will be more relevant.

Also the business forum should campaign to get rid of parking charges in Marple. Putting expanding foam in machines works well. As Tesco lands, they will bring free parking on top of flexible opening. Businesses should face this head on and offer something similar.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 17, 2011, 07:57:20 PM
As suggested by one of your members in an earlier posting (#116) I've added a further FOI (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg) to my collection (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/neil_corrie).

Quote
Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,

I believe there are restrictive covenants relating to college campus land, in both Marple and Cheadle.

Can you provide me with the following information under the Freedom of Information Act?

1. When were these covenants applied to the college campus land?

2. Who applied them to the college campus land?

3. What is specified within these covenants and why?

4. How would these convenants impact any sale or change of use of the land?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 17, 2011, 08:02:23 PM
Hi Neil. Glad you have decided to join the Forum.  I sent your Freedom of Information requests to Admin who if you OK it can be printed on here now  Great Stuff
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 17, 2011, 08:41:31 PM
Each time I visit this topic I see at least 6 or 7 guests viewing the Tosca topic.  Can I ask if you would register on the forum and enter in to the debate if Tosca coming to Marple will effect you or if you have tried to stop Tosca moving into your area and failed or succeeded.  Your views, help, advice, guidance support (for or against ) would be very welcome.  So please become part of the debate ??? We need you !!
             If the coop were to build a larger supermarket on that site would one or two of you still want to object
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 18, 2011, 12:05:29 PM
I'm not sure where you get £12m from, without planning permission, the site is only worth the value of the buildings that stands on the site.
The £12m is from post no 80.  I don't know how realistic it is, and obviously such a valuation would depend on planning consent for a supermarket.

Quote
The worry is that as a college, the council get's nothing.
I believe colleges pay business rates.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 18, 2011, 12:22:32 PM
If you’ve not seen this – its worth watching – a DISPATCHES DOCUMENTARY RE TESCO

Tesco - The Supermarket that's eating Britain - Dispatches Channel 4 (http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1381639014893922585&hl=en-GB#)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bluebelly on July 18, 2011, 12:44:12 PM
is it just tescos or is it any supermarket .
god help us if the spar and premier buy the land..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 01:03:49 PM
A local action group has now been formed surprisingly enough called  ' MARPLE IN ACTION '. The contact details will be circulated later this week.  The group comprises of concerned local residents who want to find out what the land at the college is being sold for and to who, and most importantly we want all local residents who will be effected by any development to know  that changes are coming no matter who is purchasing the college.   The local press are going to work alongside ' MARPLE IN ACTION'. And hopefully run  a story next week, what's happening at Stepping hill  Hospital is hot news this week.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on July 18, 2011, 02:42:06 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 03:29:56 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.

I am sure that you are right, some members of the MBF may support this, I have no idea who are for and who are against.  Marple in Action is for residents who will be directly effected by developments on the site ie traffic, noise and light pollution and damage to the environment  It would be my view that if you are passionate about a supermarket giant moving in to Marple,is to start your own group in favour of them moving into the area.  I am no fool and I am fully aware that some people who do not live near the site would be in favour, but that's not what his group is about .  So good luck if you are considering  starting your in favour group
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 07:03:10 PM
Each time I visit this topic I see at least 6 or 7 guests viewing the Tosca topic.  Can I ask if you would register on the forum and enter in to the debate if Tosca coming to Marple will effect you or if you have tried to stop Tosca moving into your area and failed or succeeded.  Your views, help, advice, guidance support (for or against ) would be very welcome.  So please become part of the debate ??? We need you !!
            If the coop were to build a larger supermarket on that site would one or two of you still want to object
Yes ! Even if they offered me twice the divvy !    It's about change in the infer structure , additional traffic, loss of small shops, where else could I get a wimberry tart from if Archers were forced to close.  I'm a veggie but Marple without Littlewoods !  UNTHINKABLE  :o.  If you want it in the Bridge it's yours !  Hey the slogan maybe.    TAKE IT TO THE BRIDGE   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 18, 2011, 07:56:25 PM
There is already a supermarket giant in Marple. Its called the Co-op. They probably sell more meat than the two local butchers and more veg than the local greengrocers.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 18, 2011, 08:20:15 PM
There is already a supermarket giant in Marple. Its called the Co-op. They probably sell more meat than the two local butchers and more veg than the local greengrocers.
The coop was in Marple even before my favourite shops !   Now if you think the coop is a supermarket giant   Harry !  In the words of the great song !   " You Ain't Seen Nothing yet  b b b BABY " ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 18, 2011, 09:26:07 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.

               Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing   there three  supermarkets in the grove asda sainsburys marks sparks not a ghost town for shops there .miss marple would apear to be against change in marple we had [ seventeen windows still waiting for reply back from i think mr stunnel on this ] Dan bank fantastic improve ment and now tesco . . o yes the wall on strines that was built and just finished a few months ago .i think miss marple had a go at that to .     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 18, 2011, 09:52:47 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not take such an aggressive tone with other users or you'll get yourself banned. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 18, 2011, 10:27:05 PM
All I'm trying to get across to my fellow forumite's is that you cannot really grasp the problems and negative issues which go hand in hand with a large store like Tesco opening in a rural setting. I previously lived near a tesco store and the noise from lorries re-supplying the store 24hours a day and general disruption in the area was unbearable. Coupled along with the fact that my property devalued and my travel time to work almost doubled, and the fact is that I didn't even live in the immediate vicinity. So I would simply say to all my fellow forumites to take heed.  ???




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 18, 2011, 10:48:09 PM
I see that minutes for each of the Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Corporation and Committee meetings have been published today.
http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47)

The only committee whose minutes are not published are those of the Estates Committee.  Most curious.  Regular readers of this forum will remember how the last Estates Committee set of minutes  (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf) were of particular interest.
Quote
STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
ESTATES STRATEGY
A meeting of Finance & General Committee was convened to run concurrently with that of Estates Committee whilst the Estates Strategy was presented, see highlights below.

Stephen Coulthard (Project Manager Turner & Townsend Consultants), Peter Scarborough (Bond Bryant Architects) and Mark Krassowski (Walsingham Planning) joined the meeting and delivered a presentation on the Estates Strategy (copy of Estates Strategy Final Presentation circulated for information – confidential on grounds of commercial sensitivity).

Governors had already received a pack containing the full Property Strategy from Turner and Townsend and a Report from Walsingham Planning (both deemed confidential on grounds of commercial sensitivity). SCD took Governors through the presentation, initially covering the funding led approach and the space needs for each campus. PSH and MKI contributed in their particular areas. The Cheadle campus was approximately the right size, but the Marple campus was oversized for the curriculum delivered. In terms of the suitability and condition of the existing accommodation, the 2000 build at Cheadle was best, followed by Buxton Lane, then the remainder of the Cheadle campus, with the worst being Hibbert Lane.

And please, let's not forget Turner+Townsend Consultant's speciality : Tesco - store development programme (http://www.turnerandtownsend.com/859/_11127.html).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 18, 2011, 11:20:34 PM
Further to my last post, the college advises me that the Estates Committe no longer meets.  Such activities now fall under the remit of the Finance + General Committee.  Which is published (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47), the brief section on property development is pasted below.

Quote
14 STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
CCY reported that a meeting was planned in the near future with the Chief Executive of the Local Authority. This would lead to a greater crystalisation of the options.  Principalship  confirmed that following this it  would be in a position to deliver a firm presentation  with a clear and financially sustainable option for progress to the upcoming strategic planning meeting with Governors and senior managers. The Acting Chair reminded the Principalship of the importance to the Governors of seeing a way forward that was realistic and affordable
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 18, 2011, 11:34:33 PM
Miss Marple, you seem to assume that the MBF is against the prospect of a new Tesco, but surely there are some members within that grouping who support the idea.

I fully support the idea of a new supermarket. Jobs will be created, and more people will come to Marple.

               Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing   there three  supermarkets in the grove asda sainsburys marks sparks not a ghost town for shops there .miss marple would apear to be against change in marple we had [ seventeen windows still waiting for reply back from i think mr stunnel on this ] Dan bank fantastic improve ment and now tesco . . o yes the wall on strines that was built and just finished a few months ago .i think miss marple had a go at that to .     

There is a little bit of crying wolf by miss m but i do think the antis have a point here.

True hazel grove has aldi m&s sains and asda. That said, i dont see any independant food shops tbough and it is generally tAtty although i confess not reAlly knowing what is was like before the sains opened.

My issue with a large supermarket is really the effect on existing traders. A tesco will benefit from free parking, cheap rates and economies of scale. It will also shift the emphasis of the shopping area away from the precinct. The coop does have an unfair advantage but its still part of the existing shopping area.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 01:06:43 AM
Awh Amazon !  That's nasty !  If your going to call me get it right !  You forgot Seventeen Windows  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 19, 2011, 06:04:13 AM
Further to my last post, the college advises me that the Estates Committe no longer meets.  Such activities now fall under the remit of the Finance + General Committee.  Which is published (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=47), the brief section on property development is pasted below.

Quote
14 STRATEGIC PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS
CCY reported that a meeting was planned in the near future with the Chief Executive of the Local Authority. This would lead to a greater crystalisation of the options.  Principalship  confirmed that following this it  would be in a position to deliver a firm presentation  with a clear and financially sustainable option for progress to the upcoming strategic planning meeting with Governors and senior managers. The Acting Chair reminded the Principalship of the importance to the Governors of seeing a way forward that was realistic and affordable

The meeting referred to with the LA CE is very important and it's possible that the college have held off publishing these minute until after it has taken place. I would suggest campaigners try to find out if this meeting has occurred. If it hasn't there is an opportunity to make the council's CE aware of the community's objections and remind him of the first 10 minutes of the Dispatches programme. If it has occurred then maybe a record of it can be obtained via the council using the FOI act.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on July 19, 2011, 12:04:11 PM
Amazon wrote: 
Quote
Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing

That may be the case in Glossop which has a strong set of well known and independent shops. People travel for miles for instance to use Mettricks the Butchers. Alternatively you could point to Whaley Bridge and the Tesco effect there. It is also possible that the Whaley bridge Tesco has impacted on New Mills which will shortly have tumbleweeds blowing down the road!! The number of shop closures in New Mills is gathering pace and I for one cannot see a way back for it.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 19, 2011, 12:56:53 PM
Amazon wrote: 
Quote
Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing

That may be the case in Glossop which has a strong set of well known and independent shops. People travel for miles for instance to use Mettricks the Butchers. Alternatively you could point to Whaley Bridge and the Tesco effect there. It is also possible that the Whaley bridge Tesco has impacted on New Mills which will shortly have tumbleweeds blowing down the road!! The number of shop closures in New Mills is gathering pace and I for one cannot see a way back for it.

A very good point, and a reminder of the subtle and unpredictable nature of the supermarket effect.   It is assumed by many on this thread that a big supermarket can only have a detrimental effect on local businesses.  It would certainly have an effect, but the effect in some cases may be positive.  The Hibbert Lane site of camsfc is a very short walk from Market Street - closer, for example, than the Whaley Bridge Tesco is to the local shops there. I can see people driving to a big supermarket in Hibbert Lane, parking for free, hitting the supermarket and then walking down to visit specific local shops and/or cafes.

It's the Co-op that needs to worry about this, of course. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 01:24:35 PM
I know what your saying Dave but I was speaking to a friend today who lives near a large supermarket (coop is a baby in comparison ) she didn't understand what all the fuss was about, she says that she works odd hours and last night at 1am  did a 'one stop shop' and purchased everything she needed including paint, knitting wool , food , and all her holiday clothes and suit cases and even a book for the journey she thinks it's great ! But sadly she knows no different ! But having said that there is nowhere else for her to shop as the small shops have all gone and her shopping precinct is mainly charity shops   She thinks it's great when she visits me I have to pull her away from all the small specialist shops in Marple she's like a child in a sweet factory   I hope my grandchildren have the opportunity of choosing/ordering a book from a book shop, sitting in the street in the sunshine having a coffee, choosing a pen from a stationary shop or a special card, using their pocket Money to go into a toy shop and buy a little something, going into a record shop and choosing a CD , then calling in for some fish and chips. And being able to go into a local baker and purchase true FRESH bread not some concoction that's been re heated   All fantastic stuff that we take for granted and have enjoyed I am sure for many years  So I say long may it continue !  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 19, 2011, 01:56:49 PM
Awh Amazon !  That's nasty !  If your going to call me get it right !  You forgot Seventeen Windows  ;)
          I Have voted against it on your poll  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 02:04:58 PM
Awh Amazon !  That's nasty !  If your going to call me get it right !  You forgot Seventeen Window's ;)
         I Have voted against it on your poll ;)
. It's not my poll !  But cheers Amazon !  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 19, 2011, 04:09:21 PM
I have heard this afternoon that the College Govenors met last night to consider bids for the land. Bids were received from Sainsbury's, Tescos and Waitrose. The two being consider are Sainsbury's and Tesco as Waitrose did not bid high enough.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 19, 2011, 04:15:31 PM
Waitrose did not bid high enough.

Phew, that's a relief.  If Mrs Dave was let loose in Waitrose we'd soon be in financial meltdown!   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on July 19, 2011, 05:01:26 PM
Waitrose did not bid high enough.

Phew, that's a relief.  If Mrs Dave was let loose in Waitrose we'd soon be in financial meltdown!   ;D

Haha that was my first thought..

(obviously not about Mrs Dave!)

Good Job M&S weren't interested too..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on July 19, 2011, 05:02:13 PM
Dave, I think you are only reading the part of my post about Glossop and New Mills that you feel supports a positive contribution by the potential arrival of Tesco in Marple. This was not my intention and I think it is rare that any local shops benefit from their arrival. I would not want to see Tesco in Marple as I firmly believe that a Tesco would mean the closure of more locla shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 05:03:45 PM
Dave, I think you are only reading the part of my post about Glossop and New Mills that you feel supports a positive contribution by the potential arrival of Tesco in Marple. This was not my intention and I think it is rare that any local shops benefit from their arrival. I would not want to see Tesco in Marple as I firmly believe that a Tesco would mean the closure of more locla shops.
Mulligans has a for sale sign up and that just for starters !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 19, 2011, 05:17:37 PM
Amazon wrote: 
Quote
Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing

That may be the case in Glossop which has a strong set of well known and independent shops. People travel for miles for instance to use Mettricks the Butchers. Alternatively you could point to Whaley Bridge and the Tesco effect there. It is also possible that the Whaley bridge Tesco has impacted on New Mills which will shortly have tumbleweeds blowing down the road!! The number of shop closures in New Mills is gathering pace and I for one cannot see a way back for it.

A very good point, and a reminder of the subtle and unpredictable nature of the supermarket effect.   It is assumed by many on this thread that a big supermarket can only have a detrimental effect on local businesses.  It would certainly have an effect, but the effect in some cases may be positive.  The Hibbert Lane site of camsfc is a very short walk from Market Street - closer, for example, than the Whaley Bridge Tesco is to the local shops there. I can see people driving to a big supermarket in Hibbert Lane, parking for free, hitting the supermarket and then walking down to visit specific local shops and/or cafes.

It's the Co-op that needs to worry about this, of course. 

I think you have a rather rose tinted view of how lazy people can be, walking went out with the arc for some. Look at a school gate these days.

The key is three-fold. Parking for free, rates and opening hours. Local businesses could have a late evening and they should organise themselves to get the public to support a late opening. They need to get the council to remove parking charges. They also need to overcome the business rates issue, Coop pay £150/sqm compared to a precinct shop paying £260/sqm.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 19, 2011, 05:27:06 PM
Dave, I think you are only reading the part of my post about Glossop and New Mills that you feel supports a positive contribution by the potential arrival of Tesco in Marple. This was not my intention and I think it is rare that any local shops benefit from their arrival. I would not want to see Tesco in Marple as I firmly believe that a Tesco would mean the closure of more locla shops.
Mulligans has a for sale sign up and that just for starters !

Not sure you can blame that on Tesco.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on July 19, 2011, 05:52:08 PM

               Theres a tesco in Glossop and a coop. the shops on the high street dont seem to be closing   
You clearly don't spend as much time as I do in Glossop. There are empty shops and others which are not doing very well at all and are on the verge of going out of business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: waste_knot on July 19, 2011, 08:03:00 PM
Hello, I've just joined the forum, having been pointed here by someone raising an FOI on SMBC re Tesco developments. I'm sorry, I haven't had the time to read this entire thread, so apologies if any of this has been said before. It seems to me that there is an urgent need for action and planning on this issue. I'm not suggesting we start a "no" campaign group, but as a resident of Marple I think we must do our best to ensure that the town centre is protected from unfair competition, and that land in Council ownership is used for community benefit, not for private profit.

Is there any organised group dealing with this issue, e.g. the business forum? If so, please get in touch as I'd like to help, if not, let's get something started! The disposal of council land must be subject to council control, so let's start with the councillors and SMBC: first and foremost to ensure any development of the Hibbert Lane site benefits Marple. If the land does get sold, then we must get thoroughly involved in the planning process.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 08:05:06 PM
Spoke to Mr Hubert (finance) Ridge College Marple who says that he will have to await the principles return from London before he can enter into talks with 'Marple in Action'.  Press running an article on the proposed sell out next week.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 08:07:59 PM
Marple in Action are in have started  an organised campaign please send me a personal email and I will inform you of details of the next meeting
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 19, 2011, 08:36:55 PM
Now that the intended land-grab by Tesco/Sainsburys is finally public knowledge, I've posted a FOI request to get minutes of that recent meeting between college staff and our local council.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tesco_or_sainsburys_buying_up_co (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tesco_or_sainsburys_buying_up_co)

Quote
Dear Stockport Borough Council,

It is now public knowledge that the local college (Cheadle + Marple
Sixth Form College) intend to sell their existing campus in Marple
to either Tesco or Sainsburys.

Further to my earlier request (ref 4521) could you please furnish
me with minutes of the meeting recently held between the council's
Chief Executive and representatives of Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form
College).

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie

If anyone feels the need to submit any FOIs themselves, do note that both Tesco and Sainsburys are subject to FOI rules and have to respond in a timely manner, due to the fact that they often run an opticians/pharmacy.

Quote
Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 09:18:26 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on July 19, 2011, 09:25:18 PM
maybe he hasnt ?

forgive me if it suggests on here he has
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 09:44:07 PM
Is the Busisness forum planning to move their contingency meeting forward ?  Just a thought  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 19, 2011, 09:46:49 PM
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on July 19, 2011, 10:16:21 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\
Not quite sure then why when the staff at the college were told of the plans they were asked to keep quiet about it until after the local council elections. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 19, 2011, 10:18:48 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\

Strange indeed, their own minutes of 1st March 2011 (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/F&G%2001_03_11m%20Section%20A.pdf) having specifically said "a meeting was planned in the near future with the Chief Executive of the Local Authority".  Oh well, FOI submitted nevertheless, nothing ventured, nothing gained.....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 10:34:25 PM
It's a strange old world isn't it because Mr Hubert ( Finance ) Ridge College assured me today that they had not as yet had talks with the LA CE   :-\
Not quite sure then why when the staff at the college were told of the plans they were asked to keep quiet about it until after the local council elections. 
Yes that's right Mable  that's where I got the information from, but sadly it was given to me after the local elections
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 19, 2011, 10:43:17 PM
The disposal of council land must be subject to council control,

This is not council land.  Sixth form colleges are autonomous bodies, independent of local authorities.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 10:46:21 PM
I have just re emailed all our local councillors to ask as to why they were not up to speed on this even when they had been alerted months ago.  Every councillor gave me assurances that the land could only be used for housing  :-\. You couldn't make it up could you.   Andrew Stunnel has not as yet replyed to the email I sent him 8 weeks ago.   There is an Area Council Meeting I think at the end of the month  I hope this fiasco is high on the agenda
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 19, 2011, 11:04:57 PM
Is Marple College a member of the Business Forum ?  A little birdie just told me it is  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 12:08:59 AM
Is Marple College a member of the Business Forum ?  A little birdie just told me it is  ???

Take a look at the list on the web Shiela, they have a list of members.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 20, 2011, 07:28:39 AM
Just had a thought folks on all these major stores moving to marple,tesco, asda, morrisons have been mentioned. If the good people of marple don't put a stop to this we'll probably end up with a retail park on the roman lakes!!! Woe is me!!! Say no....while you still can!!! Have a nice day!  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:09:39 AM
Can someone from the Business forum please  tell me if Ridge College is a member of that body. I think it would be of interest to know given this latest development,   :o. I don't want to look on the members list, I would just like an answer if that's possible from somebody from the Business forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 20, 2011, 08:14:56 AM
Every councillor gave me assurances that the land could only be used for housing  :-\. You couldn't make it up could you.   

There may be nothing wrong with what the councillors said.  I believe the whole area around Hibbert Lane is zoned for housing in the SMBC Structure Plan, or whatever it's called.  But that doesn't prevent someone applying for planning consent for retail use.  Whether the application is likely to succeed is another matter, of course........

On another question, I have had a look at the Business Forum website, and camsfc does not appear to be listed as a member, surprisingly. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:27:23 AM
Every councillor gave me assurances that the land could only be used for housing  :-\. You couldn't make it up could you.  

There may be nothing wrong with what the councillors said.  I believe the whole area around Hibbert Lane is zoned for housing in the SMBC Structure Plan, or whatever it's called.  But that doesn't prevent someone applying for planning consent for retail use.  Whether the application is likely to succeed is another matter, of course........

On another question, I have had a look at the Business Forum website, and camsfc does not appear to be listed as a member, surprisingly.  
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to tell me if the college is a member or not

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:30:43 AM
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to confirm that the college is not a member of the Business Forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 20, 2011, 09:19:45 AM
Is Marple College a member of the Business Forum ?  A little birdie just told me it is  ???

No, the College is not a member of the MBF.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 11:53:55 AM
Hi thanks for that, but can you tell me when the College stopped being a member of the Marple Business Forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 20, 2011, 12:06:12 PM
I have searched all the records I received when I took over my current role and there is no record of the college at all (in either current or lapsed members lists).

The records I have date back to 2006.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 12:59:03 PM
I am aware of that Dave !  I would just like someone from the Business forum to confirm that the college is not a member of the Business Forum

Miss M, I suspect people have more to do that jump to your demands all day. If the business forum is like the one I am a member of, it is not a full time body but just a vehicle for businesses to meet once a month, raise current issues and try to promote the area for business ends. Even if the college were a member, I'm not sure to what difference it would make to you.

I'm quite supportive of joining up with an organised and responsible strategy to object to a large supermarket in Marple. I would be very concerned to be backing a self-appointed spokesperson who is becoming a reactionary acting on either half-truths, rumour and in some cases imaginary occurances.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marple Business Forum on July 20, 2011, 01:07:11 PM
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.

FYI - the MBF have bought forward their meeting on this issue to Wednesday 3rd August.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:08:43 PM
I have searched all the records I received when I took over my current role and there is no record of the college at all (in either current or lapsed members lists).

The records I have date back to 2006.

Hi  many thanks for that it's very useful information !  What a team !!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:09:29 PM
We are making enquiries to confirm this new piece of information.

I'll let you know any decision on our agenda as it is made.

FYI - the MBF have bought forward their meeting on this issue to Wednesday 3rd August.

FANTASTIC !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:16:20 PM
Hi Duke Fame  say what you like I can take it, but just don't call me PETER  :D.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 01:21:36 PM
Hi Mabel I have sent you a personal email not sure if you have noticed it.  Can you contact me cheers !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 02:00:31 PM
Hi Duke Fame  say what you like I can take it, but just don't call me PETER  :D.

Don't take it personally, it's great to be passionate but passionate can easily spill over to illogical. You've been involved in a lot of campaigns and I must admit, my first reaction was "here we go again" but hidden beneath the rhetoric, there are some valid concerns. Whoever leads the campaign needs to focus on what is valid rather than simply appear to having an emotional attachment to the past and be against change for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 20, 2011, 02:08:58 PM
Hi, I've been following the Tesco stuff and finally decided to aded a few comments of my own ...

I thought we lived in a democracy, so how come a small group of people (ie the College Governors) can irrevocably change the face of Marple without any public consultation whatsoever. The bids for the sale of the Hibbert Lane campus are all from large supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsbury’s Waitrose), not one from a housing developer. This part of Marple is not zoned for retail use by the Council, but there are Councillors who are Governors, how did this happen?

Surely we need more affordable housing for young families and retired people in Marple, and this would be an ideal spot, perhaps alongside a community centre which we desperately need, and a health centre. As adjacent land is zoned for housing use by the council surely this would be a more acceptable solution.

In High Peak the council give guidance on land values for different class uses, these are of course approximate, but a helpful indication of what the land would sell for with the relevant planning permission. Land with planning permission for housing sells for more than twice that with retail/leisure permission. I have asked Stockport council, but they do not give these guidelines as land costs vary so widely across the Borough.  BUT it seems strange to me that on land zoned for housing by the council and that could possibly be more valuable for that use, not a single known bid has been received. I suppose the argument is that the land is worth what someone is prepared to pay. So come on all you housing developers lets have some bids.

I agree that we probably do need another supermarket to serve the size of population we have in Marple, but this should be of the right scale and located amongst the other shops. The empty Hanbury’s site would be ideal, or as I hear the Iceland company is up for sale, replace that, or even on the Somerfield (which is now a second Co-op) Texaco site. One of the arguments that the large supermarkets will use is that there is no competition to the Co-op in Marple – and they are right in this respect. If the Co-op could be persuaded to forego their stranglehold on Marple and a suitable sized development in the retail zone could happen then this would be of benefit to households IN MARPLE and would increase footfall for the whole town centre which would benefit the independent shops.

If a larger supermarket is built on Hibbert Lane this will pull in people from outside Marple, causing more congestion on the roads, which no doubt will be enlarged to accommodate the increased traffic flows – pity the poor householders on Hibbert Lane, and what will happen to the value of their property?  It will pull shoppers away from Market Street which will mean the decline of the independent shops there. I’m sure there will be a pedestrian walkway in the proposal, but let’s face it would you walk from Hibbert Lane to Market Street, having loaded up with a weekly shop, especially in winter or if it’s raining – I doubt it. Also consider the effect on the local economy, money spent in local shops gets re-spent in other local shops up to six times, whereas money spent in supermarkets leaves the local economy. I am aware that job creation will be a consideration, but independent shops and businesses as a whole are the biggest employment sector in the UK. Don’t even get me started on how much data supermarkets gather by using clubcards, check out CRUCIBLE database on Google – talk about big brother. You might be interested to know that in under six miles from Marple centre there are approximately 60 supermarkets and convenience stores.

Whilst I understand the College need money, I think we should demand a halt to proceedings until all avenues have been explored and the residents and businesses in Marple have been consulted. It seems to me that the citizens of Marple are suffering for the college’s bad housekeeping.

BE UNDER NO ILLUSION - once the land has been sold to Teso, Sainsbury’s or Waitrose, whether planning permission is refused or not – a supermarket will be built and MARPLE WILL CHANGE FOREVER.  The large supermarkets know the appeal process inside out and there are only so many objections the planning dept can raise and afford to raise (the appeal process costs millions of taxpayers money), so it’s only a matter of time before they finally get the permission to build. Believe me I have seen it happen in other places, and there is plenty of evidence on the Tescopoly website - and for those of who you who think Tesco et al are the friendly shop on the corner – follow the link on this forum to the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary about the supermarket that ate Britain.

Let us band together and call for a public consultation about the use of this land before it’s too late – and a public enquiry into the state of the College’s finances, because it’s that that’s created this situation and they are and should be accountable.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 20, 2011, 02:39:54 PM
Hi catwoman, and welcome to the forum!

I don't know anything about land valuation (except that it is a complex business!).  However, surely if land for housing was really worth more than retail land, the college would be selling it to a housing developer, not a supermarket!  

And according to this earlier post:
If the land was sold for housing it would raise about £4M, if sold for retail development around £12M would be generated.
....retail land is worth more than housing land.

As for the college's financial position, I know nothing about it, but I doubt whether there has been any 'bad housekeeping'.  The whole of further and higher education is under severe financial pressure because of the governement's current squeeze on spending.  There are waves of staff redundancies, the Education Maintenance Allowance (EMA) has been scrapped, and there is virtually no capital funding available for major rebuilding projects, even in cases, such as this one, where a new building is obviously needed.  So colleges have to go out and find the cash as best they can.  Camsfc is fortunate in that unlike some other colleges, it does have saleable land which it can dispose of to finance its plans.  

You ask for a 'public consultation', but that is exactly what will happen anyway, once the planning application has been submitted.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 04:09:46 PM
Hi, I've been following the Tesco stuff and finally decided to aded a few comments of my own ...

I thought we lived in a democracy, so how come a small group of people (ie the College Governors) can irrevocably change the face of Marple without any public consultation whatsoever. The bids for the sale of the Hibbert Lane campus are all from large supermarkets (Tesco, Sainsbury’s Waitrose), not one from a housing developer. This part of Marple is not zoned for retail use by the Council, but there are Councillors who are Governors, how did this happen?

As Dave says, the college need to get the best deal they can get. The former government spent too much on various projects and left the economy in the clarts. If the college wants to spend money, it must either sell assets or find a lender fund new buildings. It has surplus assets so that is what they will look to do.

If there is unlikely to be planning permission granted for a supermarket, the land is worth no more than a farmer's field to Tesco. The realistic worry is that whoever buys the plot may well get knocked back for planning. They will then leave it to be a mess until finally the opposition is worn down as anything is better than a wasteland.

This is why I keep saying the opposition has to be logical, valid and without emotion.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 20, 2011, 04:13:14 PM
Hi Dave, and thanks for the Welcome.

Re your comments about land values - I'm only saying what I found from High Peak, that land values there for housing use (with pp) are twice as much as retail use - and commenting that this was interesting. It could be that its very different in Marple, but we don't know for sure because there aren't substantiated figures available - I am making enquiries though! You would hope that college would have checked this out, but again we don't know for sure.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 20, 2011, 04:35:26 PM
As an established member of the whole community the college also has a moral obligation to the Marple community, just as they would expect a public outcry if the college closed so they must realise they have an obligation not to sell land, that once belonged to the community, to an organisation that would be a detriment to the area.
The college appears at the moment not to care about the community that supports it, and that is worrying, they don't seem willing, or able, to publicise any of their rationale over their decision to sell the land to a major supermarket.
They don't want, or are unable, to state what all the options were, e.g.
was the Cheadle site looked at?
How much money do they require?
What is their long term objectives for the college?
Just saying they want money for redevelopment is not enough.
The longer they stay quiet on the matter the more devious I think they are, just the timing of all this smells (just when the college closes for their Summer break).

Come on people of Marple UNITE against this proposal, the fight will be long and hard but we can prevail.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 20, 2011, 04:52:26 PM
We know from previous posts in this long thread that camsfc commissioned a property strategy from Turner and Townsend, who are a very large, reputable multi-national property consultancy.  That document will have been drawn up over many months, and will undoubtedly have included a comparative assessment of a number of options.  The one now being pursued by the college will not have been arrived at without due consideration.  In particular, T&T will have done detailed work on comparative land valuations, assuming various types of planning consent.

Re Duke's point about what happens if a planning application is refused, I suspect that Tesco or Sainsbury's would be seeking to reach some kind of conditional agreement with the college - for example, that any deal would be subject to planning consent acceptable to the purchaser. 

Re Victor's point about the college's 'moral obligation to the community', far from not caring about the community that supports it, the college governors seem to me to be doing their best for us, in seeking to provide a decent learning environment for the next generation.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on July 20, 2011, 04:59:23 PM
Thank you Catwoman for a well thought out and reasoned posting - gives us all plenty of room for thought without the hysterics! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 05:39:31 PM
Re Victor's point about the college's 'moral obligation to the community', far from not caring about the community that supports it, the college governors seem to me to be doing their best for us, in seeking to provide a decent learning environment for the next generation.

That is one take on it although I think in isolation, the college doesn't really need to consider externalities as long as they safeguard the future of the college being able to meet the needs of it's customers.

I am slightly puzzled as to why the college are needing to expand now. As Dave pointed out, the government were throwing money at new school buildings and refurbs. A business I am involved in was supplying kit to rebuilds and many of these rebuilt schools (according to our engineers) were replacing perfectly modern buildings. It's surprising therefore that the college didn't put in an application back then.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 05:42:59 PM
Hi Dave, and thanks for the Welcome.

Re your comments about land values - I'm only saying what I found from High Peak, that land values there for housing use (with pp) are twice as much as retail use - and commenting that this was interesting.


I think the size of the plot is the difference. It's not often that a hypermarket sized plot becomes available, it's that scarcity that makes is valauble.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 20, 2011, 05:51:39 PM
We know from previous posts in this long thread that camsfc commissioned a property strategy from Turner and Townsend, who are a very large, reputable multi-national property consultancy.  That document will have been drawn up over many months, and will undoubtedly have included a comparative assessment of a number of options.  The one now being pursued by the college will not have been arrived at without due consideration.  In particular, T&T will have done detailed work on comparative land valuations, assuming various types of planning consent.


If that is the case why did they not publish it with the minutes of the meeting!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 06:18:25 PM
Thank you Catwoman for a well thought out and reasoned posting - gives us all plenty of room for thought without the hysterics! 
Well said Barbara !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 20, 2011, 08:09:32 PM
Well I have had a really interesting day .  I have emailed all the councillors to ask what they know ? They are still saying that only housing can be built on the college site I do hope so  :-\.   It was interesting to hear that they were already dealing with concerned residents, so at least this Forum has alerted residents.  'Marple in Action' has now joined forces with another group so that's a very positive move !  AND wait for it !!  I have had three voice messages from TESCO !! Asking for me to contact them.   NOW THAT IS 'MARPLE IN ACTION'  !   :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 20, 2011, 08:27:43 PM
Am finding it really encouraging to see the campaign start to gather some momentum.  

I'm not particularly familar with Twitter or Facebook, but I wondered whether it's worth people "tweeting" a message along the likes of "#Tesco hoping to build huge supermarket on #marple college campus, see http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/".  Or perhaps admin could create a "http://www.marple-uk.com/notesco" which directs to a "MARPLE IN ACTION" summary page with a link to the forum and details of local councillor / MP contact information ?  And on the facebook aspect, start a new group on there, which people can join, which in turn points them at this site too ?

No doubt there's some other approaches outside the social-media world, like petitions and posters in Marple shops that are worth pursuing.

And finally, HAS ANYONE TOLD BRYCE  :o ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 20, 2011, 11:05:49 PM
Rather suprised that Tesco would bid for a piece of land that's only designated for residential use, so have submitted FOI to Tesco (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/marple_planning).

Quote
Dear Tesco Stores Limited,

Please could you furnish me with details of correspondence between
Tesco, Turner and Townsend, Walsingham Planning, Cheadle & Marple
Sixth Form College and the council (officers and elected officials)
and within the council with regard to plans for a supermarket on
the existing college site in Marple?

Furthermore, in light of the designation (by the local council) of
the college side as residential use only, what reassurances have
Tesco had concerning the use of the college campus land for
commercial use ?

Yours faithfully,

Neil Corrie
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 20, 2011, 11:41:48 PM
Rather suprised that Tesco would bid for a piece of land that's only designated for residential use, so have submitted

You know they don't have to reply
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 21, 2011, 08:40:43 AM
I have put a link to this website on my facebook page and a brief statement regarding the possible future plans of the college. I have over 2,500 friends on there and I'm hoping it will help get more support and get the word out to Marple residents that might not know about it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 21, 2011, 08:41:16 AM
I am slightly puzzled as to why the college are needing to expand now.

As I understand, it's not about growth, it's about replacing outdated, poor-quality and unsuitable buildings.

As Dave pointed out, the government were throwing money at new school buildings and refurbs.  It's surprising therefore that the college didn't put in an application back then.

I think that refers to the last government's PFI scheme, known as Building Schools for the Future (BSF).  However, that was for schools.  Camsfc is a sixth-form college, which would not have been eligible for any funds from BSF. 

A business I am involved in was supplying kit to rebuilds and many of these rebuilt schools (according to our engineers) were replacing perfectly modern buildings.

Mmmm...... Apparently Marple Hall School's buildings were deemed to be not grotty enough to qualify for BSF, so there must be some pretty grotty premises around! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 11:13:20 AM
Have you got a better idea Duke Fame ?  You know !  Every little helps !

Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

I was wrong as it happens, there was a reply. Tesco said 'Thank you for using Tesco delivery service, you can amend your order online'
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 11:19:55 AM
I am slightly puzzled as to why the college are needing to expand now.

As I understand, it's not about growth, it's about replacing outdated, poor-quality and unsuitable buildings.

As Dave pointed out, the government were throwing money at new school buildings and refurbs.  It's surprising therefore that the college didn't put in an application back then.

I think that refers to the last government's PFI scheme, known as Building Schools for the Future (BSF).  However, that was for schools.  Camsfc is a sixth-form college, which would not have been eligible for any funds from BSF. 

A business I am involved in was supplying kit to rebuilds and many of these rebuilt schools (according to our engineers) were replacing perfectly modern buildings.

Mmmm...... Apparently Marple Hall School's buildings were deemed to be not grotty enough to qualify for BSF, so there must be some pretty grotty premises around! 


Aquinas used Building Schools for the Future monies as did 2 we were involved in Birmingham & no doubt others.  Marple Hall looks pretty slick as a school to me. Essentially it doesn't matter too much, the college is going to have to raise any money it needs from other sources as there is very little funding right now. Gordon Brown managed to waste it all when he was the only chancellor in history who successfully managed to  spend his way out of a boom.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on July 21, 2011, 11:40:33 AM
Mmmm...... Apparently Marple Hall School's buildings were deemed to be not grotty enough to qualify for BSF, so there must be some pretty grotty premises around! 

MHS's buildings were actually sound enough that they didn't need knocking down. They got an extensive refit of wall panels & windows. There has also been a lot of internal conversion; the old lower school/girls' gym was converted into a library for both buildings and the old libraries converted to other uses.

It's not an ideal learning environment but it does the job without having to go to the expense of starting all over again.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 21, 2011, 11:48:24 AM
Gordon Brown managed to waste it all when he was the only chancellor in history who successfully managed to  spend his way out of a boom.

I like that. Very good!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 21, 2011, 12:02:44 PM
Aquinas used Building Schools for the Future monies

No it didn't - it came from the Learning and Skills Council, now defunct - just like BSF!  I believe the previous government had planned to open up BSF to sixth form colleges, but they were overtaken by events in May last year! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 12:29:57 PM
Aquinas used Building Schools for the Future monies

No it didn't - it came from the Learning and Skills Council, now defunct - just like BSF!  I believe the previous government had planned to open up BSF to sixth form colleges, but they were overtaken by events in May last year! 

Yes they did.

As for events last year, we can be very thankful
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 12:39:19 PM
Have you got a better idea Duke Fame ?  You know !  Every little helps !

Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

I was wrong as it happens, there was a reply. Tesco said 'Thank you for using Tesco delivery service, you can amend your order online'

. No couldnt have been that !   I shop local !  Don't you  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 12:56:20 PM
I have put a link to this website and a brief statement regarding the possible future plans of the college. I have over 2,500 friends on there and I'm hoping it will help get more support and get the word out to Marple residents that might not know about it.
That's fantastic stuff!  That technology wouldn't work for me as I only have 4 friends on face book ;). Well done for doing this the more people that know about this the better  WHAT A TEAM !  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 04:53:15 PM
Everything is now coming together and 'Marple In Action' will be able to give more details of the plan of action over the weekend.   We have gained the interest  of local councillors with who we will be speaking to over the next couple of days.  One LARGE Marple Business has been in touch and is closely watching the developments.  It's amazing how many local people have not heard about the proposed development so if you can, spread the word, I think that SGK and Come on Nick get Real have brought some new and welcomed ideas and I am sure we will be using that kind of technology to get our message across.   As I have always said, this Forum will be the first to know all the latest developments and planed action from 'Marple In Action '. Please register on the forum if you think you can help in anyway all participation, enthusiasm and shoe leather welcome
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 09:24:32 PM
Have you got a better idea Duke Fame ?  You know !  Every little helps !

Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

I was wrong as it happens, there was a reply. Tesco said 'Thank you for using Tesco delivery service, you can amend your order online'

. No couldnt have been that !   I shop local !  Don't you  :-\


If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!

Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.

Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:

www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>

In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.

Kind regards

[cid:78c62857-d7e5-43bf-b9f8-c5816e996efd]

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 21, 2011, 09:27:07 PM
You said Tesco's have left you two messages on your phone, did you speak to them? This seems so much more of a breakthrough than your other news.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 21, 2011, 09:39:50 PM
Quote from: Duke Fame
Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

Quote from: Duke Fame
If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!
Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.
Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:
www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>
In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.
Kind regards

Hi Duke,

It's the equivalent of an "out of office" reply.  It's the stock response automatically initially returned by Tesco via that site.  If you look a bit further you'll see that Tesco are obliged to respond, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco) : "Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.".

And if you take a look further, you'll see they have responded to some other FOI requests (same URL), particularly the ones where people have been concerned about Crucible (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/sep/20/freedomofinformation.supermarkets) and its privacy implications.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 09:45:58 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on July 21, 2011, 10:11:07 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.

After reading this,  I wont be posting much  now  on this website, Im sorry Mark, but I honestly have read enough, not just on this topic but others too,  its reading things like this that are driving people away and not posting anymore .

Im sick of the bickering,  Im sick of feeling that if you have an opinion that differs to some of the stronger posters on this board, then its classed as nonsense ( thats not necessarily from me, but from talking to other local people, and I have mentioned this in the past ) .

The whole Tesco issue is supposed to be bringing people together no matter what their opinions are on the matter , often I have had my mind changed on a subject by discussions and other peoples valid and thoughtfull opinions, on this, i feel its either one way , or no way .

You have worked so hard on this website, and commited so much of your own time , but I feel that the hard work you are doing  is being over run by sometimes what seems hysteria and one upmanship , this website is your hard work, and I sometimes feel, that its been taken advantage of to make a point .( nobody shoot me  its my own personal opinion )

Good luck with the campaign against Tescos for who ever gets involved , I actually voted for " I dont mind "  ... and Im certainly not going to feel guilty for it either .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 21, 2011, 10:25:30 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on July 21, 2011, 10:43:48 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.

Reference to overwritten post removed. Admin.

Passionate about it ... you carry on   .... but to be a good campaigner, you must not alienate people who initially may support you , but then back out because they cant stand the aggro it creates, this is a community where everyones opinions matter, to get people on side, you need to be very open minded   .

Because you care  .... believe me, I care, I care about my children, where they live, their community ( I do enough in it off my own back believe me , but thats another story ) , but  I also am not blinkered that this is a modern world we are living in, and for their future, sometimes, just sometimes, we have to accept change  .... most people dont work nine to five anymore, I work day times, but also evening times .... its rare im even able to shop nine to five  .... sad but true !  I wouldnt want the demise of local shops anymore than you would , so dont imply that others dont care because they may support, sit on the fence or whatever when it comes to something that you feel passionate about,  because quite simply YOU are not being fair  .

I'll leave you to it Miss Marple , Good luck :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on July 21, 2011, 11:53:16 PM
Post overwritten. Please do not respond aggressively to other users. Admin.

Reference to overwritten post removed. Admin.

Passionate about it ... you carry on   .... but to be a good campaigner, you must not alienate people who initially may support you , but then back out because they cant stand the aggro it creates, this is a community where everyones opinions matter, to get people on side, you need to be very open minded   .

Because you care  .... believe me, I care, I care about my children, where they live, their community ( I do enough in it off my own back believe me , but thats another story ) , but  I also am not blinkered that this is a modern world we are living in, and for their future, sometimes, just sometimes, we have to accept change  .... most people dont work nine to five anymore, I work day times, but also evening times .... its rare im even able to shop nine to five  .... sad but true !  I wouldnt want the demise of local shops anymore than you would , so dont imply that others dont care because they may support, sit on the fence or whatever when it comes to something that you feel passionate about,  because quite simply YOU are not being fair  .

I'll leave you to it Miss Marple , Good luck :)


I have to agree with this, it has become uncomfortable reading. I fully respect peoples opinions and wouldn't force my views on anybody. Not everybody wants a new supermarket in Marple ( I do ) I shop local, but do my main shop online at asda. its cheaper than the co-op and delivers at my convenience as a single mother with no car it suits me... If there was another supermarket in Marple I would shop there.
another thought...think of the jobs what would be made available for all the local people.
That is just my opinion and not forcing it on anyone, just adding to the debate
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on July 21, 2011, 11:58:11 PM
I know I'm not alone having home deliveries as there is always tesco, asda, and sainsbuy van's driving around Marple at different times everyday. So you all dont shop local for your main shop and the shops in Marple have not closed down beacause of it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 22, 2011, 12:15:16 AM
Tina I totally agree with you and believe me I am fully aware that the coop has a monopoly in Marple  I can honestly say that I am not against anyone for what views they hold. One of the things that should happen is that the coop should allow Hanburys to be sold to another retailer so that there is competition for the coop    I think that it's just the way I come across on the forum that gets peoples backs up and that's strange because  it's a funny old world but I think  you do know me because I think I know you .  Well Memo to self !  Think before you post !  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on July 22, 2011, 07:54:13 AM
Tina I totally agree with you and believe me I am fully aware that the coop has a monopoly in Marple  I can honestly say that I am not against anyone for what views they hold. One of the things that should happen is that the coop should allow Hanburys to be sold to another retailer so that there is competition for the coop    I think that it's just the way I come across on the forum that gets peoples backs up and that's strange because  it's a funny old world but I think  you do know me because I think I know you .  Well Memo to self !  Think before you post !  ;)





Miss Marple, I think that is the first rational post you have wrote in a while.
I agree about the old Hanbury's building. It is again sitting empty, which is a shame for Marple.
If you keep your post's rational without getting too emotionally involved then you might get more people on board with your MARPLE IN ACTION. Just because I want another supermarket doesnt mean I am against all of you who dont.
Re me knowing you? I don't know if I do, and if I do I would tell you myself how I feel about this whole topic and any other topic on this forum, I don't hide behind a pseudonym. I am Tina always have been and always will ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 22, 2011, 08:05:30 AM
This is a very good point Tina. Reading the posts of the people supporting a new supermarket it seems that a large proportion do so because of a big dissatisfaction with the Co-Op and I must admit that I understand that.

The Co-Op have not done themselves any favours in the eyes of the community with their policy of holding on to the former Hanbury’s building and deliberately keeping it closed so that no competitor can move in. And now that they also own the Texaco supermarket they have a monopoly in Marple. After prolonged protests and lobbying by the council and the community several years ago they made a show of using the Hanbury’s building as an electrical store for a while but it always seemed to be a bit of a half-hearted attempt to me.

I’ve been told that the Co-Op have recently renewed the lease on the Hanbury’s building for another 5 years and, surprise, surprise, soon after they closed it again. So it would appear that the electrical shop was simply a cynical exercise to pacify the protests until they could renew the lease and continue their supermarket monopoly unhindered.

A new supermarket chain wishing to move onto the college site will use the lack of competition in the area as a justification for their plans. If there was a competing store in the Hanburys location, which is inside the district centre, it would probably be of overall benefit to local shops and local people. Perhaps the Co-Op needs to take a long hard look at its strategy before it is swallowed whole?   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 22, 2011, 10:08:17 AM
I know I'm not alone having home deliveries as there is always tesco, asda, and sainsbuy van's driving around Marple at different times everyday. So you all dont shop local for your main shop and the shops in Marple have not closed down beacause of it.

I think Tina is making a key point here.  Nowadays, people tend to do a big (weekly?) supermarket shop (or order online), and I'll lay a bet that a lot of us do this away from Marple - at Morrison's or Sainsbury's, for example.  Then we top this up locally as required, at the Co-op and at all the small local shops. 

A new major supermarket in Hibbert Lane would undoubtedly lead to more of us staying in Marple for our main supermarket shop, rather than clogging up the roads in Offerton or Bredbury.    So it could actually have the effect of reducing traffic congestion!

Small shops have continued to survive in Marple, despite the Co-op, and despite the fact that many of us do our main shop elsewhere.  If we all used a new supermarket in Marple instead, the increase in 'footfall' (to use the jargon), could actually benefit local shops.  For example, in Stockport and Wilmslow people park for free in one of the town supermarkets, do some shopping there, and then leave the car where it is and go off to shop for other things at smaller local shops. 

The real problem with huge supermarkets is when they are built away from town centres.  Think of Cheadle Royal or Handforth Dean. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 10:36:00 AM
I've spent the last couple of days reading through this topic and thought I'd air my views!  I registered some time ago but generally prefer to read and digest what is being said.

My observations:
The site is probably worth close to the values estimated in previous posts.  I know the site at the old St Thomas Hospital in Stockport was up over £12m some time ago, and that was with listed buildings on it and a lot of work needing to be done; the site in Marple would be more desirable in my opinion in terms of both housing (desirable area) and also retail due to the lack of immediate competition in the area as far as Hazel Grove and Bredbury.
I have some knowledge of College 'mergers' and understand that as an organisation Cheadle and Marple will need to alleviate debts and raise funds, and don't doubt that the retail sale is the most lucrative way of achieving this.  Part of the problem is that the organisation's longer term goals may involve liquidation of the saleable assets and redirection of some operations to another campus, ie Cheadle.  I think that this is possible over time, and reduction in the Student population in Marple (whatever you think of them!) will be detrimental to local trading.
The Co-op is not satisfactory as a retailer in the area due to pricing and supplies, however as a company they operate far more ethically than Tesco, irrespective of the Hanbury's policy.  I think the local spirit in Marple remains and the aspirational nature of this forms at least a small part of the pbjection to Tesco moving into the area.  The council have been stung at Portwood by Tesco in terms of their ignorance of planning permissions, and regardless of how well they have imposed a restriction n use of some of the buildings, Marple could not afford Tesco deliberately overbuilding.
Competition is required that the local shops are failing to deliver, and this seems to be as a result of Council policy (ie. Paid car parking, high rates etc).  The pedestrianised area has been dying for some time, with weekends in particular seeming empty.  The prevalence of 'pound shops' down Market Street does nothing to retain the heritage or pull of the area.
The area is by no means 'a large town'. Stockport is a large town, with a vast differential in population and geography.  Marple is a small town or large village at best, and simply the infrastructure in Marple, regardless of the strengthening on Dan Bank, simply does not lend itself to a large supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  I note that Glossop has been quoted as an example of the large supermarket working in conjunction with local shops to good effect - this is largely due to the number of other shops on the retail park that draw in a wider catchment due to their specialist nature and size, and Marple cannot support such a development meaning that the supermarket proposal on Hibbert Lane would be standalone.  It is also noteworthy that the traffic in Glossop, for a variety of reasons, backs up beyond the roundabout at Hattersley on a daily basis and the area has been crying out for a bypass for a long time.  I for one already bemoan traffic in and out of the area and would not welcome an increase; I don't see any real opportunity to alleviate traffic congestion in Marple from the current situation, never mind the state it will be in should a large supermarket open. 

I have no nostalgia as such for the area having only lived here the past decade, and (apologies to MBF!) no great affiliation to the local shops, however I still strongly oppose the development of the site as a large supermarket for congestion reasons, despite 24hr opening etc it is clear that the large supermarkets at Bredbury, Stockport, Hyde, Hazel Grove etc. are all supplied by good transport links, close to motorway networks or major A roads.  The Coop ha developed it's monopoly a despite it's inadequacies it is appropriately sized for the residency of Marple in terms of footfall in the store, and I think with a more aggressive strategy and some breaks from the council the local shops could offer better competition than is currently the case.

I understand that change is upon us, that the era is of large supermarkets monopolising the local economy, however I feel quite simply that Marple geographically does not lend itself at all to this strategy, and that any support garnered for the proposal on the basis on inadequacies in local provision can be addressed in other ways.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 11:01:05 AM
Apologies Dave, I think I was writing as you posted!

I think your argument is flawed, on the basis that Handforth Dean and Cheadle Royal, whatever minor traffic issues have been generated as a result of putting breaks in the A34, have had no massive impact on a local residential population. Again, the existence of such a major dual carriageway nearby makes it completely incomparable to the effect this would have on Marple.

While I agree that Marple traffic would remain in Marple, you have completely and totally disregarded the effect of people coming into Marple to use a major supermarket.  Bredbury can cope, as it is immediately next to the M60, but should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
This would, irrespective of opening hours, primarily be at rush hour.
Logically, at present, with Marple mainly a residential area, the flow of traffic is outbound from 7-10am, and inwards from 4-6pm.  Build a major supermarket in Marple, and all that traffic backing up Bents Lane and down Marple Road is no longer filtering off... They (and more besides) are with you all the way into Marple.  That is the time you want traffic to subside, when you're on the way home from a long day as opposed to when you're going shopping, when it's less of a concern.

I think it's naive and illogical to realistically suggest that traffic congestion would improve in the area by introducing a massive supermarket, drawing  wide catchment from surrounding areas, that was previously absent.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 22, 2011, 02:47:46 PM
Just finished a Lengthy  conversation with Mr Hubert ( college ) who informed me that they will be speaking to the press  middle of next week when the Principal returns from Annual leave to give a press release on the developments
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: ericthehamster on July 22, 2011, 03:00:35 PM
Can I just "like" Marple_Syrup's measured comments?

I am really against Tescos moving in for various reasons (I haven't shopped with them for ages, and recommend people read "Shopped" by Joanna Blythman).

I also agree competition isn't necessarily a bad thing (and am disappointed to note what the Co-op have been doing with the Hanbury's store, I am a big supporter of the Co-op generally). However, it isn't fair competition when you are talking about Tescos and the other Big Boys. Whilst it might be appropriate to have another supermarket in the current Hanbury's location (and with that smaller footprint), a large Supermarket slightly removed from the small town centre is just out of keeping with the size and aspect of Marple. I am not sure Hibbert Lane could take the extra traffic (and it wouldn't be just locals shopping there - a large Tescos is likely to attract shoppers from quite a large catchment).

I'm not sure if anyone has already posted this (so apologies for the repetition) - this is a good source of information about Tescos generally, and fighting their unfair practices:

http://www.tescopoly.org/

BTW - one of the original commenters suggested that the cinema, library and swimming pool were hardly used? As a regular user of all three, I can refute that suggestion!  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 05:10:27 PM
Just finished a Lengthy  conversation with Mr Hubert ( college ) who informed me that they will be speaking to the press  middle of next week when the Principal returns from Annual leave to give a press release on the developments

Any developmennts from the messages Tesco left you?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: Duke Fame
Just saying that the FOI isn't for requests to private businesses, it's for local authorities etc.

Quote from: Duke Fame
If you follow the FOI request, TEsco have actually replied!
Thank you for contacting Tesco Grocery Home Shopping.
Please be assured that one of our team will be in touch with you shortly. However, the answer to some of the most common questions we receive can also be found on our website e.g. Payment issues, cancel or amend orders, manage your account and much more. So please feel free to visit the Help pages at:
www.tesco.com/groceries/<http://www.tesco.com/groceries/help/?rel...>
In the meantime, thank you for your ongoing patience.
Kind regards

Hi Duke,

It's the equivalent of an "out of office" reply.  It's the stock response automatically initially returned by Tesco via that site.  If you look a bit further you'll see that Tesco are obliged to respond, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/tesco) : "Any person or company providing general ophthalmic services or pharmaceutical services under the National Health Service Act 2006 or the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 respect of information relating to the provision of those services.".

And if you take a look further, you'll see they have responded to some other FOI requests (same URL), particularly the ones where people have been concerned about Crucible (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/sep/20/freedomofinformation.supermarkets) and its privacy implications.

Hope this helps clear up the confusion.

I realised that, it just tickled me
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
This is a very good point Tina. Reading the posts of the people supporting a new supermarket it seems that a large proportion do so because of a big dissatisfaction with the Co-Op and I must admit that I understand that.

The Co-Op have not done themselves any favours in the eyes of the community with their policy of holding on to the former Hanbury’s building and deliberately keeping it closed so that no competitor can move in. And now that they also own the Texaco supermarket they have a monopoly in Marple. After prolonged protests and lobbying by the council and the community several years ago they made a show of using the Hanbury’s building as an electrical store for a while but it always seemed to be a bit of a half-hearted attempt to me.

I’ve been told that the Co-Op have recently renewed the lease on the Hanbury’s building for another 5 years and, surprise, surprise, soon after they closed it again. So it would appear that the electrical shop was simply a cynical exercise to pacify the protests until they could renew the lease and continue their supermarket monopoly unhindered.

A new supermarket chain wishing to move onto the college site will use the lack of competition in the area as a justification for their plans. If there was a competing store in the Hanburys location, which is inside the district centre, it would probably be of overall benefit to local shops and local people. Perhaps the Co-Op needs to take a long hard look at its strategy before it is swallowed whole?   

I think there is a danger of 2nd guessing the co-op’s intentions. I can’t see  the shop being an attractive proposition to any business really. Yes it’s the right size to be a Tesco metro but without parking & with a big store on it’s doorstep, it makes little sense. It’s also too big for taking an advantage on Sunday opening (although the floor space could be re-designed to be smaller). I can see it being a big co-op pharmacy or even FuneralCare.
You are right though, Tesco will play the competition card. Co-op’s new stranglehold in Marple is exactly what will be used in favour of a Tesco. I must say, I am at a loss as to what food shopping you can’t do at the Co-op or pick up in the Marple Precinct.  I know the choice of fresh olives may be a bit limited at 9.30 at night but is it really that important?
I admit to using Morrisons or Aldi but it’s as a result of going past when going elsewhere than actually making a special trip out of marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 22, 2011, 06:13:19 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping? 

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 22, 2011, 06:29:37 PM
Hanburys used to be a handy little supermarket and was well used. The Co-op probably put their rent up to get rid of them!

I don't know how the co-op can justify selling things that are sometimes 40p, 50p dearer than other supermarkets. You can get 4 pints of milk from Iceland for £1, co-op sell it for £1.59 and just now the co-op have a punnet of strawberries half price at £2, the usual price of £4 is just ridiculous. The co-op also had a big box of laundry powder that was supposedly reduced from £10 to £5 which I bought, I go down that aisle today and guess what, they are selling it for £5, so was never actually reduced at all. I am also tired of always seeing the same things on BOGOF. Plus, everyday items in their now petrol station are 40p, 50p dearer than the co-op! Lets hope that the co-op take it seriously and reduce their prices.

If Tescos does arrive in Marple and offering food at realistic and common sense prices, then co-op will become a ghost town and instead of customer there will only be tumble weed moving down the aisles.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 08:00:14 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping? 

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can! 

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 22, 2011, 10:12:02 PM
Having followed this debate with great interest, I contacted Miss Marple to offer my support to Marple In Action and was invited to a meeting which took place earlier today. As no-one else has updated the forum, I thought I'd just let everyone know what was discussed at the meeting and what will be happening going forward.

A representative of Co-op head office was present, along with the Marple store manager, 3 local councillors and a cross section of traders and concerned residents.

There is enough evidence to suggest that two of the large supermarkets are definitely in talks with the college. The Director of Finance and Business of the college sent a fax to MM stating "the college anticipate making a statement next week to the press and will contact you accordingly".

It was decided at this stage to focus on raising awareness within the community as we all feel that not enough people are aware of the proposals. We are arranging a leaflet-drop for those areas which we feel will be most affected by the arrival of a large supermarket in Hibbert Lane.

There is an open Area Committee meeting next Wednesday where local councillors will be available to answer questions from the public. Andrew Stunell, our local MP, will also be there and we feel that this will be an invaluable opportunity to put our questions/objections to all our local representatives. The meeting will be held in Marple Library at 6pm on Wednesday the 27th and we would like as many people to attend as possible.

It was also discussed that a dedicated "campaign" webpage would be created, accessed via this website. Admin has kindly agreed this and more details will follow.

Marple In Action will be holding another meeting in a fortnight (details to follow). ANYBODY who would like to attend and show their support is welcome. Spread the word!!!

Look forward to seeing you all there
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 22, 2011, 10:14:52 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: ericthehamster on July 22, 2011, 10:25:12 PM
Thanks Belle - couldn't make meeting today, and won't be able to make Wednesday but e-mailed the details to all my local friends.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 10:31:40 PM
Hanburys used to be a handy little supermarket and was well used. The Co-op probably put their rent up to get rid of them!

I don't know how the co-op can justify selling things that are sometimes 40p, 50p dearer than other supermarkets. You can get 4 pints of milk from Iceland for £1, co-op sell it for £1.59 and just now the co-op have a punnet of strawberries half price at £2, the usual price of £4 is just ridiculous. The co-op also had a big box of laundry powder that was supposedly reduced from £10 to £5 which I bought, I go down that aisle today and guess what, they are selling it for £5, so was never actually reduced at all. I am also tired of always seeing the same things on BOGOF. Plus, everyday items in their now petrol station are 40p, 50p dearer than the co-op! Lets hope that the co-op take it seriously and reduce their prices.

If Tescos does arrive in Marple and offering food at realistic and common sense prices, then co-op will become a ghost town and instead of customer there will only be tumble weed moving down the aisles.

It [Hanburys] clearly wasn’t used well enough as it would still be running. Indeed you welcome tumbleweed in the aisles of the Co-op, as has happened to the old supermarket it will close, the result will not be competition.

I’m relatively new to Marple so don’t know the dynamics. This shop that is available to let was once Hanburys but the building was owned by the Co-op who rented it to Hanbury’s but put up the rent to have force a monopoly? Is that definitely right? I’m surprised as tenants usually have so much protection.

Your milk example isn’t a good one, Co-op specifically source from UK farmers who charge about 27p a litre of milk. It’s then packaged and distributed as well as the unsold milk wasted so I’d guess that even at £1.58 the profit is around 32%. Iceland are either sourcing from Jonny Foreign or running a loss leader to get the punters in to buy intensively farmed chicken etc. Co-op’s USP is the fair-trade thing so this is why you are paying 50p more for Milk. Even if you want the choice, you said yourself, it’s only a short walk to Iceland.

I have to say, the Petrol Station prices seem to be identical as the main co-op but selected to ensure the best value sizes are not available. Guess what, the Tesco petrol stations are the same.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 22, 2011, 10:38:02 PM
Thanks for the update Belle, I'd like to have been invited.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 22, 2011, 10:54:16 PM
Marple in Action are in have started  an organised campaign please send me a personal email and I will inform you of details of the next meeting

Duke Fame - there was an open invitation for all forum users by Miss Marple a little while back. This is how I became aware of the meeting, along with other forum members who attended. Watch this space for details of the next meeting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 22, 2011, 11:17:08 PM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....

If I have been ignorant, please forgive me.  I made an assumption on the basis that they are looking at paying £12m for a very large site.  Am not sure what Dave is basing his analysis on, but my theory, that IF it is a large store then traffic would be vey badly affected, is based in reality.
I'd suggest that if it was a relatively small to moderately sized store, there would be much less opposition and also perhaps a different site considered than a geographically large site requiring extensive demolition and rebuilding, running costs into tens of millions. 
Again, it feels like you're nitpicking at minor points (woe betide the mention of the word Extra to make you disregard the rest of my post) but in essence... Large-ish supermarket=more traffic.  Don't think I can say any more on it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 23, 2011, 12:05:06 AM
Just to say a huge thank you to all who attended tonights meeting at such short notice.  Next Wed will be an important meeting whereby questions can be put to our MP.   A Representative from The Coop head office was present so I took the opportunity after the meeting to inform her about comments which had been raised on the forum IE empty shelves and over priced goods which she will be feeding back to head office.  The coop were also informed that they really needed to allow Hanburys to be used by another retail company and that the current situation had in a way been brought about by their monopoly in Marple.  
It will be interesting to see how the MBF votes in their meeting in Aug, it would be nice if we were all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Once again thank you for attending the meeting and I have noted the apologies of those who due to such short notice were unable to attend  WHAT A TEAM !
I hope we can succeed in our objective because it would be awful if we lost our local shops.  Marple without Whites the butchers  bacon  ( salted and cured)  unthinkable   ;)  Fantastic stuff

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 23, 2011, 09:18:50 AM
Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

1.  I'm no expert, but my impression is that the Hibbert Lane campus of camsfc is much smaller in area than that of the nearest Tesco  'Extra' (Portwood), or indeed the Bredbury Morrisons or the Hazel Grove Sainsbury's.  Given the need to have a decent sized car park, my guess is that a new supermarket on that site would be no bigger than the Tesco at Whaley Bridge, and would probably not be a 24-hour mega-store, simply for reasons of lack of space.

2.  Another guess: the vast majority of the customers at Tesco's Whaley Bridge come from Whaley Bridge, New Mills and Disley.  The combined populations of those three places add up to less than that of Marple!  My view remains that  most customers at a new supermarket in Marple would be from Marple and the immediately surrounding villages, and that the net effect on traffic congestion in Offerton and Bredbury would be a reduction.   :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 23, 2011, 10:11:45 AM
I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:
Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.
....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....

If I have been ignorant, please forgive me.  I made an assumption on the basis that they are looking at paying £12m for a very large site.  Am not sure what Dave is basing his analysis on, but my theory, that IF it is a large store then traffic would be vey badly affected, is based in reality.
I'd suggest that if it was a relatively small to moderately sized store, there would be much less opposition and also perhaps a different site considered than a geographically large site requiring extensive demolition and rebuilding, running costs into tens of millions. 
Again, it feels like you're nitpicking at minor points (woe betide the mention of the word Extra to make you disregard the rest of my post) but in essence... Large-ish supermarket=more traffic.  Don't think I can say any more on it.

Hope you don't think I was having a pop.

In reality almost 20 pages of forum comments have been generated about a scheme that, in reality no-one knows much about - except that it might be a supermarket of some description. My view is not to panic too much about things that have yet to be put forward and wait to see what the details are.

Whatever the proposal, if the site is allocated for housing, any supermarket developer is going to have a fight on its hands to go against the development plan and get permission. It could be a long and drawn out process, with no guarantee of success.

On a differet tack, some of the comments criticising the Council about lack of information are very unfair. There is no compulsion on the Council to reveal pre-planning discussions at this stage, particularly as I suspect much of these are likely to have taken place in commercial confidence. Until a planning application is formally lodged it is not a 'live' scheme and details are likely to remain sketchy. Residents will then have 8 (more likely 16 weeks) to review the details and make our comments. By all means get organised and ready, but don't shoot the messeger, you may need their help at some stage.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 23, 2011, 10:25:56 AM
Hi Belly last nights meeting was very informative, we heard experiences of how really it could be too late once a supermarket say Tesco purchases the site.  There were people at the meeting who gave experiences of Tesco just purchasing the land, refused planning, demolishing the buildings and opening the land up as a free car park with just a chain fence round , full of holes and left in a state of disrepair.  It was left like that until local residents were begging the LA to have the eyesore developed, then Tesco in this instance gained planning permission a built their store.   All I do know is no one can stop Tesco purchasing the Land but what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College.  Neil Corrie is attempting to find out this information via FOI and other people at the meeting are possibly at this min trying to find the answer
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 23, 2011, 11:58:34 AM
Hi Belly last nights meeting was very informative, we heard experiences of how really it could be too late once a supermarket say Tesco purchases the site.  There were people at the meeting who gave experiences of Tesco just purchasing the land, refused planning, demolishing the buildings and opening the land up as a free car park with just a chain fence round , full of holes and left in a state of disrepair.  It was left like that until local residents were begging the LA to have the eyesore developed, then Tesco in this instance gained planning permission a built their store.   All I do know is no one can stop Tesco purchasing the Land but what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College.  Neil Corrie is attempting to find out this information via FOI and other people at the meeting are possibly at this min trying to find the answer
Tesco did something similar were I used to live
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 23, 2011, 02:17:55 PM
Irreverent post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 23, 2011, 02:37:43 PM
what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College. 

The college will be the owner of the land.  Sixth form colleges are 'owned' by autonomous corporations, which are completely independent of local authorities, although they usually have one or two local councillors on their boards.  You can read the minutes of past corporation meetings on the camsfc website. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 23, 2011, 10:47:09 PM
what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College. 

The college will be the owner of the land.  Sixth form colleges are 'owned' by autonomous corporations, which are completely independent of local authorities, although they usually have one or two local councillors on their boards.  You can read the minutes of past corporation meetings on the camsfc website. 

You are right Dave but there are stories that the land now owned by the college was gifted to the people of Marple in the past, rather like Memorial Park and the Recreation Ground. Both of those have covenants on them preventing the land being used for certain specified purposes and these can be quite powerful. It was the covenant on Memorial Park that prevented the park keepers cottage being sold for profit, or leased for business use. What people are trying to discover is whether there are similar covenants on this land and if the stories are true. There are also rumours that the green field and the car park areas cannot be built on. Opponents of the sale to a supermarket need to establish the truth about these rumours to determine if these things will help to fight the sale. Even if they don't, the facts may give support to the argument that the college has a moral obligation to consult with the community before it sells the land.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: guy on July 24, 2011, 08:49:33 AM
I think establishing whether or not there is a covenant on the land that restricts future use will be a key factor in the campaigning group's efforts to halt the Tesco plan. It is heartening that covenants were evoked re park keepers cottage in Memorial Park - I wonder if the local council enforced that? It would be great if the person from the action group responsible for checking out the covenant will have the info available in time for the area committee meeting, where council officials are present, so they can ask the council people exactly how they will enforce the covenant on the college land if there is one.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 09:24:51 AM
Hi Guy
People from Marple in Action will be looking at that, there is a wide range of knowledge within the group so it is hoped that the information will be sourced before  the councillors meeting on Wed evening. It was mention last night from someone living near ,the college that there is a possible link to Macnair gifting the land, but at this moment in time this is all hearsay   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 24, 2011, 09:29:07 AM
Might be worth asking Cllr Bispham, Miss M - in his letter to you of 13 June he wrote 'In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities', so it sounds as though he may know something about it, or at least know where to find out?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 09:47:21 AM
Hi Dave I did ask Mr Hubert about this and he said that all the covenant involves is that the college has to provide some form of sports facility and youth activity , like a youth centre which he pointed out they already had but to his knowledge the youth club was no longer in use ( maybe it should start being used)   My gut feeling is that we are way behind the supermarkets in all this and the promise of the new swimming
 pool and gym facility which has been promised by a supermarket  for the Buxton Road College may address the covenant, it shouldn't work like that I know but money is a powerful tool.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 09:50:42 AM
Might be worth asking Cllr Bispham, Miss M - in his letter to you of 13 June he wrote 'In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities', so it sounds as though he may know something about it, or at least know where to find out?
Since the knowledge of the bids for the college nearly all my emails to councillors are not answered
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 24, 2011, 10:39:10 AM
At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, this is a complex issue, and we need to research it thoroughly, and learn from what has happened elsewhere when a new supermarket has been built close to local shops.  And it's important to differentiate between what happens when a supermarket is built close to a town centre, as may happen here, and what happens when they are built at 'out-of-town' shopping centres - the issues and the impact seem to be very different. 

Here's a short but quite relevant thread from another forum, started by someone in Bolsover, and it looks to be a fairly similar situation to our own.  http://www.civicvoice.org.uk/forums/viewthread/46/

And this link is to a research report conducted by Southampton University. It costs £50 to read the full report, but you can read the executive summary for free.  But beware - it seems to have been commissioned by Tesco! http://www.riben.org.uk/report/Executive_summary.pdf

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 12:08:29 PM
There has been a lot of interest from local people who I have directed to this site   If anyone new to this forum is following  this thread feels that they have the skills, knowledge or can offer legal assistance please register on the forum and pass on your details to either myself or Admin. You can do this by sending a personal message if you do not want to share information on an open forum.  PLEASE IF YOU CAN OFFER ANY SUPPORT DO SO BECAUSE TIME IS TICKING BY   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 12:22:10 PM
Might be worth asking Cllr Bispham, Miss M - in his letter to you of 13 June he wrote 'In addition there is a covenant on part of the site around the gym facilities', so it sounds as though he may know something about it, or at least know where to find out?
Since the knowledge of the bids for the college nearly all my emails to councillors are not answered
UPDATED.

I have just received an email from Sue Ingham Cllr that she thinks that the meeting was on 27th June but she was not in attendance.  Ms Ingham states that the councillors had the meeting to clarify the colleges position with regards to the sale of the land.
Cllr Bispham has also replied this morning
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 24, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
Hi

The town where Tesco had been trying to get planning for a number of years is Prestatyn. Below is the 'positive spin' put on the planning permission approval in a press release from January 2011. It demonstrates how long the big supermarket developers will bide their time (15 years) and how much the proposed development increased in that time, and affect it had on public opinion when left vacant for that length of time. The land  was turned into a temporary free car park (not a very nice one - more of an eyesore).

Denbighshire County Council’s planning committee gave the green light yesterday to a proposal to build a Tesco store and a number of retail units which could house big High Street names such as Boots, Next and Debenhams, near Prestatyn town centre.
The five hectare development, which will also include a petrol filling station and car parking for nearly 800 cars, will be sited on former industrial and commercial land between High Street and Nant Hall Road.
A bid to redevelop the site has been on the table in some shape or form for more than 15 years.
The latest version is a combination of two developments originally approved on two adjoining sites, one by Tesco and the other for Somerfield, who inherited the Kwik Save complex.
The Tesco plan was first approved in 2000 but there then followed a lengthy legal wrangle, with Stadium Prestatyn Ltd receiving permission in 2008.
The Yorkshire-based firm built Parc Llandudno, and the massive Meadowhall complex in Sheffield.
Approval, supported almost unanimously by councillors, was subject to a number of conditions, which include an assurance that work would begin within two years and work is carried out to preserve listed railway buildings.
Prestatyn East councillor James Davies acknowledged concerns raised by town residents about the impact a scheme of this scale would have on the existing road network and on people living in the Parc Bodnant estate but, gave the plan his support.
Another Prestatyn member Julian Thompson-Hill said the saga had gone on for too long.
“The blight we have had on Prestatyn in the last 15 years has been absolutely dreadful and we do need to get this resolved,” he added.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 24, 2011, 02:29:46 PM
That's very interesting catwoman, and relevant in two respects:

1.  Prestatyn is another place where many people drive about five miles away to do their major food shopping - in their case, to Rhyl, as opposed to Bredbury or Hazel Grove in our case.  (Rhyl has three major supermarkets: Asda, Morrison's and Sainsbury's)
2.  That development, like the possible one here, is close to the town centre, not 'out-of-town'.   

The question is, will that be good for other shops in Prestatyn, or not.  The local MP seems to think it will - here's the next bit of the press release, which for some reason you left out ;-)

Vale of Clwyd MP Chris Ruane welcomed the news that planning permission had been granted.  The development would be “good” for the town’s business association and the extra footfall generated should “help others prosper“, he said.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 24, 2011, 07:59:38 PM
Apologies, I thought I had copied and pasted the press release
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
I have emailed the councillors to put the sale of the college under any other business so that the subject will be dealt with on the night in line with council rules
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 24, 2011, 10:25:04 PM
Marple on Action began a leaflet drop yesterday in Marple to alert the community to the  possible sale of the college to a supermarket.  The leaflet gave information as to how to contact this site and details of the Area Committee Meeting on Wed
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 24, 2011, 11:26:33 PM
That's good news on the leaflet drop, hopefully means a good turnout for the meeting this week.

Was thinking about how big the existing Hibbert Lane buildings are compared to the Tesco Extra in Stockport (the one where Tesco ignored planning agreements and built it 20% larger than agreed (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesco-riding-roughshod-over-planning-rules-mps-are-told-518601.html)), so that we could gauge roughly how big the store might be in Marple, if it were to get approved etc.

Answer : fairly similar.  The Hibbert Lane site might actually be bigger, in terms of existing building size.  Note that the Stockport site has a rather large car park, far bigger than the Hibbert Lane site could accomodate.

The Stockport site benefits from being near to a motorway, so no issues with traffic congestion.  Hibbert Lane, on the other hand, doesn't have such road infrastructure nearby.

Hibbert Lane (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=hibbert+lane,+uk&hl=en&ll=53.390933,-2.06706&spn=0.002703,0.004903&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=57.945758,80.332031&t=h&z=18)

(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7480/hl4h.jpg)

Stockport (Portwood) (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=stockport&hl=en&ll=53.415786,-2.152945&spn=0.005403,0.009806&sll=53.390933,-2.06706&sspn=0.002703,0.004903&t=h&z=17)

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3339/stock2m.jpg)

(Both images found using maps.google.com and using 100ft scale)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 25, 2011, 09:17:44 AM
That's really interesting, sgk.  If you look at the entire Hibbert Lane site on Google maps, it's surprisingly big - it actually looks to be a similar size to the entire Tesco Extra site at Portwood, including the huge car park.  And although the present camsfc car park is much smaller than Tesco's , there's a sizeable grassy area behind it which could easily become part of an enlarged car park.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 25, 2011, 11:51:43 AM
That is interesting. Being a former CAMSFC student I know the size of the building is fair and have a feeling they would do as big store as they could get away with.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 25, 2011, 08:31:57 PM
We've had a response from the college concerning two Freedom Of Information requests.

Covenants relating to the college campus (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#incoming-196517)

Building of supermarket on existing college site (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/building_of_supermarket_on_exist#incoming-196518)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 25, 2011, 08:49:37 PM
Concerning that "shown on the plan attached to the 1919 Conveyance (we do not have a copy of the plan)" line in the FOI response, the best image I can find right now is the 1934 plan on http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html (http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html).

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2457/hlold.jpg) (http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/2457/hlold.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 26, 2011, 09:11:59 AM
Thanks Neil - more fascinating stuff there!

This bit is particularly interesting:  Not to erect or suffer to be erected on such part of the land adjoining Macclesfield Canal any Mill Manufactory or any building to be used as trade works.
...... as it reveals that the 1925 conveyance was for a bigger area of land than the one now occupied by camsfc, which does not extend all the way to the canal.  That must be the land now occupied by the housing on Mount Drive. 

And this bit at the end of the response: There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site
.....can't be anything to do with the 1925 covenants.   They must refer to conditions placed by SMBC on the transfer of the land from the local authority to Ridge Danyers College (as it was called then), back in the 1990s.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 26, 2011, 04:47:03 PM
Tomorrow nights meeting will now be first on the agenda.   So please make the effort to come along. Marple in Action has delivered over 2,500 leaflets informing everyone as much as they can about tomorrow nights council meeting.  If there are any local shops reading this it is important for you to come along and show opposition to any development on that site that will see the demise of our community and loss of local shops not to mention the increase in traffic
We need to show whatever supermarket giant that we are united in wanting to retain our village type way of life. 
Looking forward and hoping to seeing a huge turnout tomorrow night  ;D

SPREAD THE WORD
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 26, 2011, 07:16:02 PM
looks like word is spreading around Marple which is great!  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 26, 2011, 07:24:52 PM
I was near Hibbert Lane roundabout the other day and this absolutely massive articulated truck came up Hibbert Lane and did a full turn on the roundabout to go back down Hibbert Lane. Everybody around stopped in their tracks because the sight was so astonishing. I have never seen a truck so big in Marple, I think it was something to do with Travis Perkins.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 26, 2011, 07:47:02 PM
Marple in Action has delivered over 2,500 leaflets informing everyone as much as they can about tomorrow nights council meeting. 

For those who have not seen the leaflet yet, is it worth posting a copy of it (or link to picture of it) here and via the "just the facts" thread ?  And have you a few copies for the speakers and audience tomorrow ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 26, 2011, 08:01:57 PM
Local blogger and Marple fan "MarpleLeaf" has posted some opinions on the supermarket situation and possible implications for Marple folk on his blog (http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/07/supermarket-on-hibbert-lane-in-marple.html).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 26, 2011, 08:30:39 PM
I haven't seen any leaflets, could someone post it?

The email above is good but the part about the health centre; who would fund this? There are lots of things we would all like on that land but we won't ever get it just by suggesting it.  Also the term 'lovely' seems out of place and it doesn't mention the fact that the two supermarkets we already have are both co-op. It is a good argument but not really convincing enough. The supermarket could offer to sort out the traffic round the area, they need to come up with counter arguments for things like that too and cover everything.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 26, 2011, 08:42:32 PM
I was near Hibbert Lane roundabout the other day and this absolutely massive articulated truck came up Hibbert Lane and did a full turn on the roundabout to go back down Hibbert Lane. Everybody around stopped in their tracks because the sight was so astonishing. I have never seen a truck so big in Marple, I think it was something to do with Travis Perkins.
            Just shows a tesco lorry would do it easy .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 26, 2011, 08:42:41 PM
The leaflet was simply to raise awareness of the meeting tomorrow and to introduce people to this website so that they could acquaint themselves with the story so far. Apologies if you didn't receive a leaflet; there's only so many hours in a day due to work commitments etc  ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on July 26, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
I was near Hibbert Lane roundabout the other day and this absolutely massive articulated truck came up Hibbert Lane and did a full turn on the roundabout to go back down Hibbert Lane. Everybody around stopped in their tracks because the sight was so astonishing. I have never seen a truck so big in Marple, I think it was something to do with Travis Perkins.
            Just shows a tesco lorry would do it easy .

40' trailers used to go to Goyt Mill regularly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on July 26, 2011, 09:12:03 PM
i object to any supermarket or housing being built on this site,theres litrally thousands of houses for sale around marple etc,cant see how building more will improove anything.
dont let them build on any fields in marple,i grew up in heaton moor and watched all the feilds and farms dissapear under bricks and morter,whats next a drive through mcdonalds on hawk green field ??? you think im kidding....... i aint
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 26, 2011, 10:08:50 PM
Marple in Action has delivered over 2,500 leaflets informing everyone as much as they can about tomorrow nights council meeting.

For those who have not seen the leaflet yet, is it worth posting a copy of it (or link to picture of it) here and via the "just the facts" thread ?  And have you a few copies for the speakers and audience tomorrow ?

Hopefully I've attached a pdf of the leaflet!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 26, 2011, 10:34:41 PM
There will be three other  people plus myself attending the meeting tomorrow with the Principle and Mr Hubert finance  I thought it best to take along members of other concerned groups for this important meeting. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 26, 2011, 10:36:57 PM
Hopefully I've attached a pdf of the leaflet!

Thanks Belle Star : for those without a PDF viewer, here's a pic of said leaflet.

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9190/flyery.jpg) (http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9190/flyery.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marveld on July 27, 2011, 10:02:21 AM
Can someone please help me out here?  Susan Ingham, chair of the Area Committee, has stated:
.
Quote
It is true that the College intend to sell the Hibbert Lane Campus and as an independent commercial organisation they are free to do whatever they believe is in the College’s best interest and the Council has no jurisdiction in that respect.  As I understand it they have been in talks with various supermarkets and developers, but nothing has been agreed at this stage. As far as planning permission goes, the Council Planning department is clear that the land in question is designated as housing.  No retail development would be given consent outside the District Centre. The Hibbert Lane campus falls outside the District Centre and therefore any a planning application to develop a retail site is likely to be refused.
.
A key word that I picked up on was likely. If the Council Planning department is clear that the Hibbert Lane Campus is only designated for housing, why is it only likely that a retail site would be refused? Can someone ask Councillor Ingham (or another Councillor) at the meeting tonight, under what circumstances the Council would go ahead and grant retail permission? (I am unable to attend)
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bartlett on July 27, 2011, 10:07:47 AM
I unfortunately live next to the field in question.  It bad enough when the bin men come to the college at 4 a.m. on Thursday mornings.  The sound travels across the field so imagine what it like when there will be deliveries every day.

I also heard whilst doing my shopping that they are thinking of knocking down the baths and another shop to accommodate the lorries.  I can only imagine this is why they spent so much money on dan bank.

I have had a letter from Andrew Stunell confirming that no planning permission has been applied for yet!  How much money does this council need.  There is something that quite shocked me in that they receive the same council tax from me as they do from every residential flat in Marple, so taking into account that there are four residential flats areas in Marple they take on average £200,000.00 per year in council tax alone from these flats and then when the bad weather comes they do not clear the pavements or the walkways so that they can get out and buy food to survive.  Mr Stunell was sent emails and nothing happened.

I also feel sorry for all the local shops.  How are they going to survive when it is difficult enough to park in Marple but that you also have to pay.  If Tesco does build here it will be free car parking so why wouold anyone go into Marple.  We need to support our local shops and not let this happen to them.

I the people who live on the other side of the precinct want a supermarket, then have it near you and not next to my house where it will devalue my property and cause major polution to the area.

Why not move Marple Hall School to the College (as it use to be a school) and knock down Marple Hall School and built it there.  We could at least have a good swimming pool and leisure centre instead of what we have now.  After all the money that should have been spent on Marple was spent on Romily baths instead.  Surprise this is where Mr Stunell lives.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: pjarvis98 on July 27, 2011, 10:53:21 AM
..... This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P
Have you looked up in the ladies changing rooms, thick mould growing everywhere! tiles falling off the walls while I'm trying to change my children for lessons. A new pool would be fantastic but not at the expense of a tesco!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 27, 2011, 11:13:35 AM
I think that anyone who opposes the building of a new supermarket in Marple but drives to a supermarket outside Marple to do their "big shop" is on shaky ground here.

Why does everyone assume that the small shops in the centre of Marple will suffer if or when a new supermarket comes? Does everyone do their supermarket shopping for heavy groceries and their visits to the hardware shop at the same time? I (and I suspect many working people with a family) would continue to do a large supermarket shop on one evening and a visit to the local shops on a different day. Do people go to a supermarket to buy nails, screws, wood or paint ... or do they go to Hollins? I think that the local shops would actually benefit from having less vehicular traffic in the centre of Marple. I would shop at a new supermarket but use the other non-grocery shops at least as much as before.

The only business to suffer would be the Co-op and, to be honest, their "ethical" credentials have gone out of the window by refusing to let any competing supermarket take over the Hanbury's store, whilst their retailing credentials have been lost by their pricing and their complete inability to keep their shelves stacked.

As for the College, they have to expand because the government has decreed that all young people now have to stay in education until age 18. They also have to replace some dated buildings with very little available cash. Are we going to oppose a good sixth-form education for our children?

We could oppose a new supermarket on the grounds of some nostalgic attachment to "small shops" or we could move forward, making sure that the benefits (to the environment, education, well-being of local citizens) are greater than the losses. Better to be part of the design and planning of a new development than just to oppose it "on principle".
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on July 27, 2011, 11:22:09 AM
If Tesco promise new facilities, don't hold your breath. The article below (taken from Tescopoly website) shows how long they took to build the promised doctor's surgery in Burnage when they built their store there in 2005.

I grew up in Burnage and am now saddened to see how the once thriving shops in the area have gone downhill mainly I believe due to the Tesco store. I don't want this to happen here. And don't get me started on traffic and pollution issues.

To Hollins - Tesco sell much more than food. Many small shops selling hardware, electricals and clothing will see a reduction in footfall.

http://menmedia.co.uk/southmanchesterreporter/news/s/1028230_doctors_are_running_out_of_patience (http://menmedia.co.uk/southmanchesterreporter/news/s/1028230_doctors_are_running_out_of_patience)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 27, 2011, 12:05:15 PM
Members from 'Marple in Action' will be going to speak with the Principal later this afternoon to gather information if possible as to what the land is going to be used for.  Marple in Action have worked extremely hard over the past week and feel that we have now got to the stage whereby the community needs to support us by coming along to tonights meeting.   Please please do not rely on information just being put on this site because it's now about showing the councillors, planning dept and any supermarket with an interest, who will more than likely be monitoring this site with intrest, that they are not welcome.  The only way to show this is to attend the meeting, it's bums on seats now that will drive this campaign forward.  An hour of your time will prove more useful than any poll or web site,  the press will be there this evening, so if you care as much as I do about Marple and our village type way of life.  You must attend tonight please !  Let's show all that need reminding that It's Not Happining !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bartlett on July 27, 2011, 12:32:52 PM
Jane Horrocks is clearly not worried about biting the hand that used to feed her, as she's been rather harsh on Tesco customers in a new interview.

Speaking to the Radio Times, the actress admitted she doesn't usually shop in the supermarket chain, despite having appeared as the face of Tesco for a decade.

The 47-year-old actress bought her house in south-west London - which she calls "Tesco Towers" - with the money she earned appearing in the ads, admitted she found it "scary" to shop there.


"There's always a set type of people doing their shopping according to the time or the day, whether it's pensioners holding everyone up or screeching kids.

''Or sometimes you can have rather a lot of chavs in, and that gets a bit scary."
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 01:14:45 PM
I think that anyone who opposes the building of a new supermarket in Marple but drives to a supermarket outside Marple to do their "big shop" is on shaky ground here.

Why does everyone assume that the small shops in the centre of Marple will suffer if or when a new supermarket comes? Does everyone do their supermarket shopping for heavy groceries and their visits to the hardware shop at the same time? I (and I suspect many working people with a family) would continue to do a large supermarket shop on one evening and a visit to the local shops on a different day. Do people go to a supermarket to buy nails, screws, wood or paint ... or do they go to Hollins? I think that the local shops would actually benefit from having less vehicular traffic in the centre of Marple. I would shop at a new supermarket but use the other non-grocery shops at least as much as before.

The only business to suffer would be the Co-op and, to be honest, their "ethical" credentials have gone out of the window by refusing to let any competing supermarket take over the Hanbury's store, whilst their retailing credentials have been lost by their pricing and their complete inability to keep their shelves stacked.

As for the College, they have to expand because the government has decreed that all young people now have to stay in education until age 18. They also have to replace some dated buildings with very little available cash. Are we going to oppose a good sixth-form education for our children?

We could oppose a new supermarket on the grounds of some nostalgic attachment to "small shops" or we could move forward, making sure that the benefits (to the environment, education, well-being of local citizens) are greater than the losses. Better to be part of the design and planning of a new development than just to oppose it "on principle".

Some very sensible points here.  The only thing I would take issue with is the reference to the College's plans being about growth.  Actually I don't believe they are - it's mainly about replacing some outdated  and unsuitable old school buildings.  They were built, on the cheap, in the mid-20th century for an 11-16 secondary school.  Surrounded by largely unused playing fields, they now provide unsatisfactory accommodation for a 16-18 6th form college, which requires completely different facilities.   Go and see the excellent Cheadle campus of camsfc - it's an eye-opener, and will make you realise how much Marple young people are being educated as second-class citizens.  And as for the Marple councillor (who shall be nameless) who announced to the Stockport Express that 'the land was given to the college to provide further education', and that selling it to a supermarket would be a 'scandal', that is an extraordinary thing for a councillor to say.  ::) How exactly does HE propose that we should improve the educational facilities for the children and grandchildren of the people who voted for him?   Or does he think second-best is good enough for the likes of us? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 27, 2011, 02:49:29 PM
Quote

Go and see the excellent Cheadle campus of camsfc - it's an eye-opener, and will make you realise how much Marple young people are being educated as second-class citizens.  

Why was the Cheadle campus modernised and not the Marple one? Or is there a hidden agenda to close or reduce the number of courses at the Marple site.
When the colleges were combined it was because the Marple College was seen as having a long term future and sufficient student numbers, while the Cheadle college was struggling for pupils. The wider Marple community might now have to pay for the mismanagement by the Governing Body, they appear to have taken their eyes off Marple and concentrated too much on Cheadle. Anyone know where the Governors come from, I know the Principal lives in Stoke.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 03:01:30 PM
Like the Marple campuses (campi?), the Cheadle campus of camsfc was originally housed in former school buildings.  In the 1990s, one of them was found to be structurally unsafe, due to decaying reinforced concrete.  It was therefore demolished, and replaced with a nice new building which opened about ten years ago.  That's all.  No hidden agendas, mismanagement or conspiracies - boring isn't it  ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 27, 2011, 09:26:12 PM
Representatives of Marple in Action today attended a meeting with Ms Cassidy (Principal) and Mr Hubert (Finance) of CAMSFC. We were told that they have considered many options for the sale of the Hibbert Lane site and that YES they were now only considering the supermarket option. They would not disclose which supermarkets have made bids but confirm there are 2 in the running and they have a "favourite". The sale will be subject to planning permission for both the supermarket on Hibbert Lane AND the redevelopment and extension of the Buxton Lane campus but they expect to sign a contract mid-October after their next Governors Board Meeting. Apparently they have taken advice on the likelihood of obtaining planning permission, bearing in mind the site is currently zoned for residential use, and have been advised by their legal team that this change of use would not be in breach of planning law!
Following on from this, we attended the Marple Area Committee meeting and were amazed by the turnout from local residents. Approximately 300 people forced the Councillors to abandon the Senior Citizens Hall and hold their first ever open air meeting in Memorial Park. The Councillors knew less than the people of Marple! So, thank you to those who gave up their valuable time to voice their concerns over this most important and now urgent of local issues. You, the people of Marple, have delivered a clear message to the Councillors that MARPLE is indeed IN ACTION!!! This is only the beginning. Keep spreading the word, and keep all eyes on this website as we develop our own webpage and action plan, and for news of the next meeting.
WHAT A TEAM!!!   ;)

(http://www.marple-uk.com/front.png)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 27, 2011, 09:51:53 PM
Like the Marple campuses (campi?), the Cheadle campus of camsfc was originally housed in former school buildings.  In the 1990s, one of them was found to be structurally unsafe, due to decaying reinforced concrete.  It was therefore demolished, and replaced with a nice new building which opened about ten years ago.  That's all.  No hidden agendas, mismanagement or conspiracies - boring isn't it  ;)



But now we are in a position that to modernise the Marple site there is no straightforward 'replace with a nice new building'.  Despite a merger supposedly making financial sense, the Marple site has to lose the main functioning arm of the college in this area in order to raise the capital to rebuild completely.  Wilst this is clearly not 'mismanagement', it's safe to say that as a result of a merger supposedly offering improved conditions to a good student population in Marple, the wider community will now suffer.
Dave I know you're one of the few to have spoken against it, and respect your opinions, but we are told tonight that the site is very large, at 9 acres, and that from Marple In Action it is looking like the site will be sold to a big retailer, following the meeting with the College today.
Whatever way you look at it, the College's requirement for funds has not been aided by this merger, and the sale of the site to raise capital may longer terms have a negative effect.  If the proposed academy status is granted to Marple Hall and they start providing sixth form, reduced operations on the Marple campus could spell a move of a lot of services to Cheadle.
Looking at Tameside College as a case in point, the merger there with Hyde Clarendon and Ashton sites has had a massive impact on the Hyde centre.  It was a well established provider of A levels, merged with a slightly more affluent neighbour, and then sold land off to Greater Manchester Police to raise funds.  Now it's a fraction of the provider it was, and Ashton booms.  Obviously this is a side issue.  You are obviously pro supermarket.  I disagree strongly with your summation that it will be sufficiently small to have a positive effect on traffic, and disagree that everything is hunky dory with the way the finances have been handled after the merger.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 27, 2011, 10:33:06 PM
Having witnessed the fantastic support by the people of Marple at the Area Committee Meeting tonight makes me hopeful that we could succeed in overturning this ridiculous proposal.

I have said in a previous post that the only way to prevail is by the concerted action of the community as a whole working as one. I am pleased to say that this seems to be happening and I only hope that the people of Marple have the staying power and the will to continue on what may become a long and drawn out process. The College must now take note of public reaction and respond accordingly.

Well done Marple!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 27, 2011, 10:57:37 PM
First of all, I would like to say as a founder member and foot soldier of Marple in Action a huge thankyou to every one of you,who gave up their time to support our objection to a major supermarket  blighting our small town.The response has been phenomanal. We in Marple have almost everything we need. I personally could not or want for more.I gained a lot of feedback from people who live near the proposed supermarket.Their concerns were that their homes would no longer be looking over a field, who can blame them,I for one would not like the prospect of floodlights at night attracting possible anti-social behaviour as happens on a regular basis at Morrisons at Bredbury.Like a moth to a flame.A member of my family suffered terrible problems whilst living on Smithy Green due to youths passing her property to congregate on the morrisons car park.Those people often had their cars vandalised nightly.She has since moved out of that area.Marple Syrup, you have raised some valid points concerning the Hyde college.If the Marple college was to close after the sale of the Hibbert Lane site all this would of been a nonsense at the expense of local business,property devaluation and general unrest amongst us. tonight saw approx 3OO people.From Acorns grow might Oaks!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 27, 2011, 10:58:17 PM
The wider Marple community might now have to pay for the mismanagement by the Governing Body, they appear to have taken their eyes off Marple and concentrated too much on Cheadle. Anyone know where the Governors come from, I know the Principal lives in Stoke.

Conveniently, there is no longer a councillor on the board of governors (despite the College website insisting Cllr Margaret McLay (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=44) is still a governor), so I've submitted a FOI to find out the accurate list.

Current governors (draft list, awaiting true list from college via FOI)

Lawrie Grant        Chair
Trevor Jones        Deputy Chair
Christina Cassidy   Principal
Adrian Clare        Governor
Ian Doughty         Parent
Stephen Downs       Governor
Sandra Dunn         Staff
Anand Dutta         Governor
Mike Gledhill       Governor
Cllr Margaret McLay Governor
Phil Masey          Student
Karen Moore         Governor
Ian Powell          Staff
Richard Young       Governor

    
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 27, 2011, 11:04:53 PM
Nice work Neil, Thanks for your commitment.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 11:14:31 PM
I attended the open-air meeting in the park this evening.  Unfortunately I had to leave after an hour, but until that point a senior officer from SMBC Planning Dept was dealing clearly and calmly with the issues.  It would be nice to report that everyone else was clear and calm, but sadly that was not the case   >:(

The planning officer was keen to emphasise that if a planning application for a big supermarket were to be submitted, it would be very unlikely to be approved.

The prevailing mood seemed to be strongly opposed to the idea of a new supermarket in Marple, and the councillors who were present were more or less cornered into agreeing to oppose the idea.  There appeared to be about 300 people there.  That leaves a mere 23,100 residents of Marple who were not present - let's hope their opinions are taken into account as well! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 27, 2011, 11:23:46 PM
Come of it Dave,There are  probably 2O,OOO who unaware of the Major supermarket threat! It was a small number of us who alerted as many people as we could in less than five days.Not bad going eh?  Duck,take cover Trix!! note to ones self.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 27, 2011, 11:37:15 PM
Marple in Action are aware that some people may not have use of the Internet  to gain up to date information so we now have a dedicated phone number 07790419494 whereby concerned residents can leave a message and someone will ring back and take details to add to our mailing list , this number will also be published in the  press  It was also noted that some of our residents with mobility issues   who attended tonights  meeting had difficulty so it is hoped that for the public meeting which is to be held very soon, we will have organised a car pool.  Once again thank you all for your involvement tonight!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 27, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
I am concerned as most people on this forum are but agree we need to have cohesive and structured arguments to respond-simply stating "we do not want it" will not get us anywhere.  Arguments re pollution, traffic and safety for the community as a result, detriment to property prices in the surrounding areas, detriment to the village community etc all need to be considered.

See attached link for likely response from Tesco to any objections we may raise-may be useful to think of replies in the interim!

http://www.tesco.com/talkingtesco/response/?page=article25

Apologies to anyone who has already read this or if it is already posted on the forum.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 27, 2011, 11:54:11 PM
At today's meeting someone queried where the councillors lived, and whether they would be impacted.

Quick plot using Google Maps (http://maps.google.com) and the publicly available councillor addresses at Stockport Council website (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeMailingList.aspx?EM=1&ID=0) is below.  Click the image for a larger (readable) version.

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7724/councillors2.png) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7724/councillors2.png)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 27, 2011, 11:58:29 PM
Local blogger MarpleLeaf raises some interesting points on his blog (http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/07/anger-rises-over-marple-college-sell.html) following tonight's meeting, and some pictures of the crowds in attendance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 28, 2011, 12:25:21 AM
Not able to attend the meeting tonight, so many thanks for all the reports and links published on this forum.

A couple of points/questions:-

1. From a selfish point of view, I live off Buxton Lane opposite the College, one thing that as not been  
   detailed is what the proposed new extension of the college would consist of! Surely there are restrictions
   on what can be built on the existing land at the Buxton Lane campus ?
   The thought of the increased student population and associated cars etc would be a nightmare. Have
   you ever see what it's like on a open evening? You struggle to park outside your own property.

2. Two years now since Peacefield school was closed and nothing built or planned as yet on the land.
    Call me suspicious but is there a link?

3. When Peacefield was rumoured to be closing I sent out many e mails to local councillors and our MP.
    I did not get a response from any Councillor, but I did get a response from our MP.
    To be honest during the Peacefield/Dale closure process the attitude of our council members was lousy.
    With them all being Lib Dem's they all seemed more interested in sticking to the Party line than helping or
    conversing with local community.
    The good thing about this campaign is that it seems to have started relatively early in the process
    before the plan is set in stone.

4.  Regarding the need for a another big supermarket in Marple, it's not needed. We have managed so far
    without and I personally would rather travel 4 miles for a weekly shop & then drive home to the
    relatively nice quiet area I have chose to live in.
    

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Boyd Black on July 28, 2011, 12:33:16 AM
If ever you needed an indication of how much in touch with the views of Marple residents the council are, the choice of Marple Library for tonight's meeting should give you a clue. To make matters worse, I found their use of the war memorial as a podium disrespectful  :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 12:48:45 AM
And this is how it works.  Manningtree (leafy little town) and their Tesco battle.  This isn't a pessimistic "we're doomed" posting, merely an overview of Tesco/Council tactics, so we're forewarned.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 01:45:37 AM
Yes we have been burning the midnight oil, but we needed to plan our next course of action which will be mass demonstrations outside the college   Dates and times will be circulated
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: SkyGuy on July 28, 2011, 04:05:40 AM
This post contained copies of two emails sent by Christina Cassidy to her staff earlier this year on April 7 and then on May 9.

I received a request to remove them from Andrew Hubert of Cheadle and Marple College at 1.20pm today (28 July 2011). Andrew provided a copy of the CAMSFC Disclaimer that the he says accompanied the original emails when they were sent out to college staff, which I have pasted below:

CAMSFC DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is intended to be addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the College. If you have received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying or disclose of its contents to any other person is strictly prohibited, please notify the sender immediately, by responding to this message and then deleting it from your system. The College nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email.

I have sought advice regarding the legal position on this and have been advised to comply with the college's request. Admin.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mike Whittaker on July 28, 2011, 07:46:04 AM
I attended the meeting last night and I am completely opposed to a retail development on the hibbert lane campus. I live on hibbert lane opposite the existing college car park.
I have written a personal letter to the college explaining my lack of support for their actions and I urge every other resident to do the same.

The big issue for me is the sale of the land. Once sold I believe, as someone pointed out at last nights meeting, that it will only be a matter of time before something is built or the site becomes derelict and an eyesore.

The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

As I see it we have until October to make a real impact with the college. They are clearly thinking with their hands in their pockets rather than with their heads.

Below is a copy of my letter to the governors, write you own. Hand deliever it, send it to each of the governors and put the ball in their court. Remember a pro forma letter or template letter gets a proforma/template response.

Hopefully they will see sense, they clearly are prepared for any confrontation from members of the public (in the form of legitimate demonstration), as demonstrated by MIA's meeting with them yesterday.



Ridge Danyers College
Marple
Stockport
Cheshire

28/07/2011
Dear Governor

I am Michael Whittaker and I am a local resident living on Hibbert lane, Marple. I live opposite the Hibbert Lane campus of Ridge Danyers College.

I am aware that you are currently in negotiations with third parties, specifically supermarket businesses, in regards to the sale of the Hibbert lane Campus. I understand that this sale is to fund the expansion and development of the Buxton Lane Campus. I understand at this time that this is the only option you are looking at to get the monies you require for the expansion project.

I understand the necessity for the development of the educational facilities that you supply, as I was a student of yours some 10 years ago now, but I am deeply disappointed by the way in which you are willing to get the funds.

I believe that ethically and morally the sale of this land, for the reason stated, would not be in keeping with why you were given the land in the first place. I believe this land was given to you to use as a resource for something beneficial for Marple. It was given to you in good faith on the premise of it being used for education.

In selling it to a supermarket chain I believe you are acting in an unethical and immoral way, which will be to your material gain and to the detriment of Marple.

I am completely opposed to the Hibbert lane site becoming a Supermarket or retail site. I feel that this would be detrimental to Marple in a lot of ways. Examples of this include effects on local residents, local businesses and traffic.

To be more specific, I believe that a supermarket will mean increased traffic in the Marple area and Hibbert lane in its immediacy. This will have a direct effect on commuters and I include my wife and myself in that as we commute to Stretford and Didsbury through peak times when the proposed development would be open. I believe that this would be dangerous to the residents of Marple and your own students. It wasn’t that long ago that one of your students was knocked down outside my house by a car. It is already a busy road.

I have two young children under 4 years old. It is already dangerous for them to cross the road. We do not need the extra traffic.

I am also concerned that our volunteer emergency services personnel will be massively hindered in “turning out” to emergency calls from members of the public. If you were not already aware Marple Fire station is staffed by retained fire-fighters on nights and weekends. This dedicated group of people live within our community. Some on or around Hibbert lane, all of them within a Marple boundary set to enable them to attend the station in the case of an emergency within a set period of time. A retail outlet would directly effect this as the peak time for any retail establishment will be at nights and weekends. I can tell you as an ex fire fighter, it is already hard enough work getting to the station in the event of an emergency at these times, it will only be made worse by the inclusion of retail consumer traffic. Literally lives could be put at risk.

I believe that a supermarket, the likes of Tescos, Asda, Sainsburys etc would be detrimental to the already struggling local businesses within the town centre. I believe it will have a direct effect on them including closure of many of them as a supermarket will offer the same or similar products for cheaper prices. This will decay Marple town centre and ruin what is a community business area.
In my case, as a resident, I will be disturbed by HGV movements in relation to deliveries to the proposed site, increased traffic and noise.  I will be disturbed by the environmental lighting used to light the premises or car park. I will be upset by the site of a large supermarket on my front door step. I do not want a supermarket on my front door step.

I fully understand the need to develop the Buxton Lane campus but implore you to see sense and look to sell to the likes of a property developer or similar. Marple does not need a supermarket but it does need housing. I can accept this. The community will accept this. I understand that you may not get the same amount of money from this avenue, but you would retain both my wifes support and mine.
As it stands should your board meet in October as planned and move to agree to this sale I regret you will have lost our support.

I will oppose the plans for retail development should you continue to support this. I will do this by erecting a large sign outside my house, on my land to voice this. I recognise that other residents will also be doing this also. I will also support Marple In Action.
I will oppose your planning application in respect of your expansion of the Buxton Lane campus. I will do this by continuing to follow the planning application process and voicing my views at area committee meetings.

I will support the Marple Hall Academy bid in an effort to increase competition for your college.

I will ensure that my two children do not attend your college, as I did, and instead go to another college\Marple Hall Academy.

I will ensure that given any issue arising from either the expansion of your Buxton lane campus or your students themselves I will be reporting to the relevant authorities. I have previously tolerated littering, abuse, poor driving, illegal parking and damage to my property.

I will personally make life as difficult as possible for Ridge Danyers in respect of any support that you may require in the future.

You need to know that these feelings are echoed by many other residents in Marple. On Wednesday 27th July 2011 an area committee meeting was held at 1800hrs in Marple Memorial Park. So strong was the support, that the venue was not big enough and council committee members were forced to take unprecedented action in speaking on the war memorial to a crowd of around 200 residents of all ages.

 I do not believe that this is a lost cause and again implore you to see sense and do the right thing. You still have the chance to vote no to this course of action in the Board meeting. You still have time to explore other avenues to fund your project.

You alone have the power to keep Marple the community spirited village it has grown into. You alone can take our interests on board and look to fund your new project ethically and with our support.

I wish to remain in Marple as it is a beautiful place to live, it is a great community. You need to realise that you are part of this community and should you choose to do something detrimental then you may find yourself without the community behind you. 

I am willing to meet with you to discuss this further if you deem it necessary. I would like a reply/acknowledgement of my letter in a timely fashion.


Yours Sincerely

Michael Whittaker
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on July 28, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness,also if the funding is not found to develope the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the errection of crossing barriers.I dont think this should be dismissed. ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bartlett on July 28, 2011, 08:45:11 AM
I have also today written to the college.

I understand from a source that * the houses behind the baths have received compulsory purchase orders.  These are not given by the college but by the Government.  *

[* unsubstantied accusations have been removed from this post. Admin]

Last night they just wanted us to think that all would be alright as they would not grant planning.  The fact that he would not be dealing with the planning and that it would be dealt with higher up than him was just false hope.

I wonder if anyone who is reading this who lives where the baths is can confirm that they have received such order.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 28, 2011, 09:03:41 AM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness

This is taken directly from www.tescopoly.org on the "basic facts about supermarkets" page

Supermarkets destroy local jobs. Supermarket claims that new stores bring in jobs fail to consider the wider picture of independent retailer bankruptcies. A 1998 study by the National Retailer Planning Forum (NRPF) examining the employment impacts of 93 superstore openings between 1991 and 1994 found that they resulted in a net loss of more than 25,000 jobs or 276 per store opened. More information on the impact of supermarkets on jobs is available in Chapter 13 of the Competition Commission report on the power of the supermarkets.

Quote
The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

A brilliant point and a brilliant post. Imagine if every Governor received 200 or more letters like Mike's!!!

Please, everyone who is against this proposal, GET WRITING!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 28, 2011, 09:41:24 AM
If you mean the road at the back of the baths then there are a few houses for sale on there. You would think that they wouldn't bother if they have compulsory purchase orders on them but you never know. Maybe they have been offered more to keep stum.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mike Whittaker on July 28, 2011, 09:51:10 AM
quote
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness,also if the funding is not found to develope the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the errection of crossing barriers.I dont think this should be dismissed.

In reply

I would argue that the coop has taken away from local business. They control the exhanburys establishment in an aim to control price and effectively monopolise the area. They now own the Somerfield/texaco garage, again controlling more of the market. I believe Iceland is the only competition. In some respects I blame the coop for their part in this issue with a new Supermarket. If it wasnt for their greed people wouldnt seek to find a cheaper alternative for their local shop.

With regards the further education aspect. I would love to support the college that I went to as a young adult and increase its facilities, but not at the current price/sacrifice. I would rather support the Academy status of Marple Hall which will still provide higher education services in the local area.

I wouldnt trust the planning commitee to make traffic flow more effective in marple. I have seen the erection of the crossing at hibbert lane near to the junction of A626. It is one of the worst designs I have seen. It borders in my opinion on dangerous. The effect of it is that people still cross at the mouth of the road, where it is natural but dangerous to cross.
A further example of this is the "add on" outiside the Pineapple pub on Church Lane. This acts more like a traffic obstacle, than a pedestrian crossing.

Getting back to the point though, I dont dismiss that there could be benfits to employment but I feel these would be more limited than Tesco would have you believe.

it is with the future generation, my son, my daughter and everyone elses children in mind that I oppose the tesco project. They may never know what a beautiful country side town existed on the outskirts of Manchester if we dont take a stand.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jo Scarlett on July 28, 2011, 10:14:35 AM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasn't taken away all the local business,also if the funding is not found to develop the college then the further education of a future generation will suffer.There are alot of valued points against a supermarket taking over the site but if they did there would be certain alterations to the road that would need to be considered,these could be funded by the developer,such as the erection of crossing barriers.I don't think this should be dismissed. ;D

There would be additional employment, but not only Marple residents will be employed.  Remember Tescos have a clothing range, goodbye to M&Co, Pink Parrot, Tescos have a pharmacy, goodbye to Superdrug and possibly Boots, Tescos may put a 24 hr petrol station on site??, Tescos sell Paint, Hardware, DIY, goodbye Hollins, Homewares, DVDs, Flowers, Electrical goods, Butchery, goodbye Littlewoods & Whites, Bakery, goodbye Gregs and dare I suggest that even Archers may close, Fish Mongers.  Tescos will close down the vast majority of independent shops on Market Street -FACT.  Please don't think that competition is the way forward, open your eyes, independents cannot compete with the Majors, their buying power enables them to out price all and any 'competitors'.  There may be additional employment, but offset that against the many jobs lost in our community, we can't be sure that we wont actually be in a worse state.

Where local councillors are concerned, I wouldn't trust a word they say.  [Unsubstantiated accusations in this post have been removed. Admin].  I would keep dialogue with them, but only at arms length.  I saw 2 or 3 of them in action during the consultation period of Rose Hill Primary School and they conducted themselves appallingly.  Some of them believe that they can promise the world and not follow it through.  Marple belongs to its community and the way things are going there will be no community left for future generations.  Over recent years Marple has successfully brought its community together through Festivals etc.  These will become a thing of the past once Market Street becomes a ghost town.

NO to TESCO.     I will continue to watch this site for more information and look forward to giving my full support to MARPLE IN ACTION.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 10:15:50 AM
Interesting points above, about competition for camsfc from Marple Hall, if Marple Hall becomes an Academy and opens a new sixth form.

However, those using this as a stick to beat camsfc with should realise that it will probably have the opposite effect - if camsfc is competing directly with Marple Hall, it will be even more important for it to have shiny new facilities (as it already does at Cheadle) in order to attract Marple students.  

As it happens, I have been a college governor (not at camsfc), so I can see the issue from their point of view.   They are legally required to act in the best interests of the college, and they will argue that in this case, those are also the best interests of the community which the college  serves.  

Incidentally, anyone who intends writing to individual college governors should be aware that members of governing bodies can only act (or react) collectively.  So they will probably get one reply, which is likely to be from the Clerk to Governors on behalf of the entire board.   And by the way, it's always a good idea to use the correct name for the college  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bluebelly on July 28, 2011, 10:22:33 AM
i didnt realise that so few people, had the power to approve somthing of this magnitude. surley the council who are made up of people living in the area,would only give their approval if the people wanted the development.i for one origanally voted for a supermarket, but after reading all the info thats been provided have changed my mind totally.my gran used to live in the bungerlows 15 years back .the disruption to the people near the site would be unberable. we are not bredbury, we are not romiley, we are not hazel grove we are marple,lets keep it that way!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jo Scarlett on July 28, 2011, 10:25:59 AM
Just a thought...........

Is it possible for this forum to access our email addresses and/or phone numbers to contact us on-mass to get a message to everyone.  I don't always manage to check this forum everyday, but do pick up emails and text messages throughout each day.  This may be worth considering if there was to be a demonstration or such like??  I guess this may be to much work and that maybe we'd need to give permission and that the software may not be able to cope???

I'm also aware that there are many persons who still do not know anything about this campaigne and wonder how we can quickly get this to the whole of the community.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 28, 2011, 10:32:10 AM
i for one origanally voted for a supermarket, but after reading all the info thats been provided have changed my mind totally.my gran used to live in the bungerlows 15 years back .the disruption to the people near the site would be unberable. we are not bredbury, we are not romiley, we are not hazel grove we are marple,lets keep it that way!

Fantastic! Glad to see people are starting to make informed decisions - especially since both sides of the argument have been covered in this forum! Too many people seem to think it's a good idea without considering the wider implications on the community as a whole. Keep spreading the word Bluebelly  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 28, 2011, 10:46:54 AM
Interesting quote from Mike Whittaker (with which I entirely concur): "In some respects I blame the coop for their part in this issue with a new Supermarket. If it wasn't for their greed people wouldn't seek to find a cheaper alternative for their local shop.". Apart from the issue of the College's finances, if the Co-op were forced to give up their stranglehold in the centre of town then most of the unwelcome issues would probably go away.

Note to the people on Hibbert Lane: some of us live very close to the present supermarket (i.e the Co-op) - living close to a supermarket really isn't the big issue you make of it. As for not liking the noise of the bin men ... come on, get real!

It is news to me (and no idea whether it is true, or even whether it matters) that Marple Hall is "applying for Academy Status". That wouldn't of itself mean that they will then want a sixth form. They are, however, definitely taking about 200 children from the soon-to-be-closed Offerton High School, recovering their capacity of a few years ago and presumably limiting their opportunity for any sixth-form provision. (Does this have any connection to their current building of a ring of steel around the school grounds?)

As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 28, 2011, 10:50:38 AM
The trouble with the Marple Whispers is that most people currently think the rumour of a store is untrue.. as it was when it first cropped up and it was proven (??) not to be the case ..maybe a couple of years ago now?  So we need really to make sure everyone knows that now it is FACT.  and that we dont have much time to initially persuade the college to rethink.  Could someone maybe put an A5 flyer together making it clear that it is now reality. with an information website page?? and the phone number... Id happily print a tonne off and put them in places.. and on FB, twitter etc Though i think The Marple Twitterati are well and truly on to it already!

I know that youngsters arnt the most active of people however i think it might be useful to try and get them involved.. they do have a representative on the committee and they are in the college with the potential to cause very particular discomfort and embarrassment to the management.  

AND maybe another online petition Mark?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jo Scarlett on July 28, 2011, 11:03:18 AM

As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Point taken, however they have chosen their occupation and they are paid to do their job.  It can't be that bad as there are husband and wife teams locally and they seem to manage, if it was so bad then perhaps they would stand down.

To enter the political ring you have to take the rough with the smooth and there will be many benefits too!  Remember that Marple has 6 councillors and that most have stood for quite a while so things really can't be that bad.  When commenting on our local councillors I do so based on their public life not on them as individuals.  In every walk of life you find persons who are great at their jobs and those who are not...........  and this is evident, in my opinion, in our Councillors, some are better than others.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on July 28, 2011, 11:07:09 AM
Can someone explain the actual status of the college. It has been referred to as a commercial organisation and even a corporation. Who is it accountable to? Who funds it?  I am sure that many people would believe that the college is entirely under the control of the lcoal authority. Lets understand the reality. The two emails published allegedly from the principal make interesting reading - in one breath she speaks about "preserving their status in the community" and in another expressing dissappointment that certain details were being leaked to that same community. Hmmmm
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 11:27:35 AM
Is it possible for this forum to access our email addresses and/or phone numbers to contact us on-mass to get a message to everyone

The "NOTIFY" button at the top of the forum page, "  Mark Read  |  Notify of Replies  |  Start new topic  |  Post New Poll " permits this

http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help)
Quote
The Notify button enables registered members to subscribe to email notification of replies to topics in this board.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 11:35:31 AM
1. From a selfish point of view, I live off Buxton Lane opposite the College, one thing that as not been  
   detailed is what the proposed new extension of the college would consist of! Surely there are restrictions
   on what can be built on the existing land at the Buxton Lane campus ?
   The thought of the increased student population and associated cars etc would be a nightmare. Have
   you ever see what it's like on a open evening? You struggle to park outside your own property.

My original FOI to the college requested covenant details for all 3 sites, but their reply only covered the Hibbert Lane campus.

I've requested clarification, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg).

Concerning Peacefield school, I would heartily suggest raising FOI requests to get further information.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 11:39:32 AM
Can someone explain the actual status of the college. It has been referred to as a commercial organisation and even a corporation. Who is it accountable to? Who funds it?  

I'm no longer involved with colleges since I retired, and things change so fast that I'm already out of date.  But basically, sixth form colleges and further education colleges became independent of local authorities in April 1993, as a result of the Further and Higher Education Act 1992.   Like all other colleges which came within the scope of the Act, camsfc is controlled by its own independent corporation, aka Board of Governors.   When the corporations were first established in 1993, the members were appointed by the Secretary of State, but after that they became their own self-perpetuating appointing bodies. They usually have a local authority rep on the Board, although it was said at yesterday's meeting that camsfc now doesn't have one, which surprises me.  

Camsfc has a rather complex history of its own, however.  It was created through a merger which took place after the initial incorporation in 1993.  This Wikipedia article has a useful brief history.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheadle_and_Marple_Sixth_Form_College

Although they are charities, and not for profit, in many respects these colleges do indeed have to behave quite like commercial organisaions, and that was always the intention, of course, when the Tory government set them up in the early 1990s.

Over the years the funding sources have changes.  At first funds came from a new quango called the Further Education Funding Council (FEFC).  Then Labour abolished that in 1998 and set up a new quango called the Learning and Skills Council, which was essentially the result of a merger between the FEFC and the former Training and Enterprise Councils (TECS).  (Bear with me, I've nearly finished  ;).

AFAIK, the funding now comes partly via local authorities, for students betweem 16 and 18, and partly from yet another new quango called the Skills Funding Aggency (SFA).

Hope this helps   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 11:40:49 AM
Our campaign is featured in the Stockport Express.  Don't be shy about adding comments via the Stockport Express website, perhaps pointing people towards this forum.

Glad that at least one of our Councillors is speaking up for us, and not sitting on the fence !!

Residents rally over fears of new superstore (http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1453738_residents-rally-over-fears-of-new-superstore)

Quote
Residents are opposing plans to sell off a plot of college land in Marple – fearing it might be used for a supermarket.

Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College says its Hibbert Lane campus is ‘no longer viable’ following cuts in government funding.

The college says it is considering ‘a number of options’, but neighbours say they believe that may include talks with one or more large supermarket.

Resident Lucille Bartlett said: "We do not want this. We do not need this. We have giant supermarkets in surrounding neighbourhoods as Hazel Grove and Bredbury."

Councillor Craig Wright said: "If it is sold to a supermarket it will be an absolute scandal. That land was given to the college to provide further education."

Residents are setting up a group, called Marple in Action, to bring people and businesses together to oppose any supermarket plan.

Many residents also plan to attend tonight’s meeting of the Marple area committee, which takes place at Marple Library at 6pm, to ask questions about the plans.

Paul Lawrence, director of place development at the council, said they are aware that discussions are taking place in respect about the site.

But as the land is owned by the college, the council does not have any jurisdiction over who it is sold to – although it will have to give planning permission for any development.

The college had been expecting funding for a new building on the Hibbert Lane site, but that was withdrawn last year.

A spokeswoman for the college said: "There are a number of options that are being considered in line with the need to provide a facility which will also become the focal point of the college’s community.

"We would like to stress that no contracts have been signed and that any decision is subject to planning."
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 11:43:54 AM
As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Very well said, hollins.  I realise that some people have very strong feelings on this issue, but I find it quite sad that some people resort to accusing councillors of 'lying'.   :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 28, 2011, 11:52:35 AM
As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Very well said, hollins.  I realise that some people have very strong feelings on this issue, but I find it quite sad that some people resort to accusing councillors of 'lying'.   :(
Agreed about accusing the councillors of lying is wrong, but from my experience of the Marple primary school merger the councillors are very selective of what information they impart to the people who have elected them to their position.
Like all jobs or "position" some people are better at than others. Some people become councillors to help the community and others are in it for the Kudos.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on July 28, 2011, 12:02:54 PM
Quote
Councillor Craig Wright said: "If it is sold to a supermarket it will be an absolute scandal. That land was given to the college to provide further education."

Glad that at least one of our Councillors is speaking up for us, and not sitting on the fence !!

Councillor Craig Wright has been the owner of a local business (Harmony Decor, I believe) before he sold up. Having had several discussions with him I know that he would be one of the most vocal opponents of a new supermarket because of the effect it would have on the local traders. We would definitely have an ally there from the point of view of the impact on local shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
Hello

I was at the meeting last night and offered some assistance. Im an acoustic consultant and have done a lot of work in relation to planning applications and noise, including supermarkets.

In terms of this potential application, the Planning Director was being truthful and honest. The problem lies elsewhere.

In terms of planning, the potential owner need to demonstrate that there will be minimal or no impact on local residents, over a number of categories.  Just thinking out loud, at least three issues immediately spring to mind; noise pollution, light pollution and additional traffic.

The main document they use is the Core Strategy (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningpolicy/ldf/dpd/corestrategy).

Its a lengthy document, but basically as was said last night, applications for a different use are opposed. So supermarket at the College site would definitely be refused. The problem is wheterh this is then referred elsewhere.

But all is not lost.

Traffic must be a major contention.

And noise is also likely to be significantly excessive.

In terms of what I can do, i can take measurements at locations around the site, at various times (will depend on proposed opening hours, which are currently unknown, but given the size of the site, its entirely possible that it could be late/24 hour. Noise levels in Marple are currently very quiet at night, particalary after 11pm, at around 30dBLAeq. I also have a lot of data relating to deliveries (the noisiest and hardest to treat) and car parks/traffic. I can undertake calculations to (probably) show that noise levels are excessive, and hence it should easily be blocked on those grounds alone. marple is just not going to get significantly noisier any time soon, so this should be a long term solution.

In terms of the survey, im not proposing to do anything just yet, but see what happens. Legally, im not sure if im allowed on the site, and i doubt the college will be supportive, so id need access to any houses with gardens that back onto the site for an hour or so. Im sure given the level of support someone can do this. i can take measurements on the pavement legally outside the front of other affected houses. I can also calcualte expected traffic noise levels. But the deliveries, at around 70-80dBLAeq, will be significantly higher than existing background, at around 30-40dBLA90.

Also, in terms of the equipment, depending on how work are about this, I may need to hire some equipment. Is there a fund/etc for this whole issue? Very early days yet, just thinking out loud.

Traffic would also be increased exponentially, and the infrastructure is just not suitable.

Tesco/whoever will have planning consultants and presumably acoustic/traffic etc companies working for them. Id also be happy to review any documents.

Noise is dealt with by Stockport Environmental Health by the way. They give guidance to the planning team, based on survey data and reports provided by the applicant. It is also possible to submit a report (i.e. ours) demonstrating that it will be excessive. I know a few people there and theyre decent people. Its there job and perogative to protect residnets from noise, as its them who get called out if/when theres a problem.

Other areas to consider would be light pollution (significant), conservation (any bats round this area?, theyre a protected species, we can force them to get an independent bat survey (!) believe it or not, seen them before), quality of air, right to light (blocking up windows), and privacy (people in car park seeing in to peoples rooms).  Theres probably even more.

Bit busy at work atm, but some food for thought, feel free to ask any questions.

I understand the main issue is the long term (expected) plan of Tescos buying the site and sitting on it. Theres really very little you can do about that, apart from lobbying the college, but i really can see planning permission for any large supermarket ever being granted there. All is not yet lost!

If either of the two ladies who i spoke to want to get in touch please do via the email i gave you last night.

Ben
:)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 28, 2011, 12:09:06 PM
It seems to me that the College Governors hold all the cards here. Fourteen people, or thirteen if its correct the Cllr McKay has stood down, hold complete control over the decision to which 'large supermarket' the land is sold to. How crazy is this. It is going to affect the community of Marple forever. We need to find out just who these people are. From the college website and the profiles that are available (for just some of them) they appear to be business people or academics with little if any connection to Marple. Does anyone know who they are and how they can be reached?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 12:13:17 PM

This post contained copies of two emails sent by Christina Cassidy to her staff earlier this year on April 7 and then on May 9.

I received a request to remove them from Andrew Hubert of Cheadle and Marple College at 1.20pm today (28 July 2011). Andrew provided a copy of the CAMSFC Disclaimer that the he says accompanied the original emails when they were sent out to college staff, which I have pasted below:

CAMSFC DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is intended to be addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the College. If you have received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying or disclose of its contents to any other person is strictly prohibited, please notify the sender immediately, by responding to this message and then deleting it from your system. The College nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email.

I have sought advice regarding the legal position on this and have been advised to comply with the college's request. Admin.


Quotations from confidential emails have been removed from this post. Admin

The college have made a concerted effort to conceal information from the public until such time as it is a "done-deal" and too late for our objections to make a difference.

Shame on you CAMSFC  >:(

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 28, 2011, 12:13:54 PM
Hi acoustic man,
I live on Hawk Green, just around the corner from Hibbert Lane. We have bats and a hawk and badgers! Any use?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 12:15:40 PM
As for the constant sniping at local councillors ... perhaps you should stand for election in their place. Then you can have your home address publicised everywhere, be constantly heckled from one side or another and generally insulted about issues that are not under their control. I may not agree with their politics or everything they do, but I have great respect for those who genuinely attempt to serve in public office.

Very well said, hollins.  I realise that some people have very strong feelings on this issue, but I find it quite sad that some people resort to accusing councillors of 'lying'.   :(

I agree that lying is a strong term.
Having said that, I have had precious few dealings with the members of the local area committee until this issue.  What concerns me is that at both the meeting with Marple In Action, and also at the meeting last night, their initial stance is 'we know very little, there are no facts'.  During the progress of the debate it then invariably emerges that they can indeed quash rumour with. The facts they do know.  We were told at the Marple In Action meeting that they had no knowledge of any actual bids, and solely that three weeks ago they had been told that the college was in discussion with three retailers.  At the meeting last night, we understand that the council has actually seen some Market research indicating that Marple sidings on the whole shop outside the area.  Clearly there has been some misinformation and the initial stance of having no informatio at all is not correct.  The posts from Sky Guy and Miss Marple above clearly evidence that the college has been talking in more detail to the Council than the LAC would have had Marple In Action believe at last week's meeting, when their statement of the facts as they knew them were absolutely scant, and adamant that the first they had heard was three weeks ago, at the end of June. 
There is a general feeling that they are inclined to withhold information as opposed to dealing with the issues.  I appreciate that the Director of Planning was very good, spoke clearly about the stance on the designation of the land and I think we all appreciate that the wider issue is largely beyond his control.  Despite this, I watched the faces of the LAC with interest (Craig aside, who seems to represent our view despite his verbal approach at times, which can be required as people get heated) and I was concerned that when goods points were made with regard to the Tesco at Burnage for example, they grimace and shake their heads in a very negative fashion.  The general feeling is not one of 'we're with you but our powers are limited as follows', it appears me more to me that they are against protestation from the residents, and this breeds a feeling that we are not represented and results in the over-egged accusations of lies. 
They should have come out and put on the table EVERYTHING they did know.  That didn't happen, you have to eke it out of them piece by tiny piece.  Not good, and if nothing else I know where my votes will not be going in the future.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 12:18:13 PM
It seems to me that the College Governors  ... Does anyone know who they are and how they can be reached?

Waiting on the college to give an accurate list of governors, via FOI, as their site seems incorrect, but if anyone can get it from elsewhere, great.
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/current_governors (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/current_governors)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 12:19:07 PM
Hi acoustic man,
I live on Hawk Green, just around the corner from Hibbert Lane. We have bats and a hawk and badgers! Any use?

Yep :)

Not my area of expertise but these are all good lines of enquiry. We could do with organising a list of 'Marple In Action' skills.

I live in hawk green too btw, off goyt avenue.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jo Scarlett on July 28, 2011, 12:24:30 PM
Some really intresting points from Ben, so much better to be fully informed.

If Cllr McKay has stood down? do we know if the Governing Body is obliged to have a representative Cllr on their board - what is the legal standing on this?  I still struggle to understand how the college GB can have so much weight in an issue as big as this?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 12:40:55 PM
There is a data base for all peoples email addresses or phone numbers  Please send me a personal email via this site with your email address on and I will add you the list.  Marple in Action is not about a small group of people ! Marple in Action is YOU and we want you to become involved because we realise that people on this site have a wealth of skills that will help drive this campaign forward.  For example one local resident has got her children's local school behind this campaign due to child safety on the road.  There was another resident at last nights meeting who had information about the concerns of our local fire service to increased traffic ( if you are reading this please post what information you have or send a personal email please )  There is soon to be a MASS demonstration which you will be informed of which will be taking place in August it is so important that we attend to show the college, councillors and which ever supermarket that IT'S NOT HAPPENING !  There is soon to be a bill board drop please let us no if you would allow us to put a bill board on your garden?  Especially is you live near the college  ! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 12:50:46 PM
Spoke to boss, in principle happy about use of equipment etc for noise surveys. My time would be out of hours and therefore free.

However, hes of the opinion noise may not be as much of an issue. It can be conditioned such that deliveries could only happen during hours specified eg 0800-1700h. Daytime levels are quite loud, relatively. I can do a spot check no problem, but if theyre restrcited to daytime deliveries that could be a massive blow to the noise side of things.

Theres also a problem in that I as an individual do not carry anything like the weight of the company i work for, and may get discredited if im not very careful, by highly paid teams of Tesco's consultants. Whether the company would be prepared to do it/underwrite my work as it were remains to be seen, id have to talk to the directors.

This will definitely need a bit more consideration. However, happy to help in this area, and anywhere else. Boss is of the opinion traffic will be the major influence in terms of planning refusal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lissb66 on July 28, 2011, 01:15:29 PM
Obviously, those who do not object to these supermarket plans are not adversely affected, perhaps it will not affect the value if their property, perhaps it is far enough away for them not to be worried about the traffic on their road increasing. I presume that that also care very little for maintaining the community they currently live in.
Question to those who do not mind or agree with the plans…. What if it was in your street? What if the 24 hour supermarket was opposite your house, what if the new traffic lights/roundabout was outside your front door?
Isn’t this a case of NIMBY (not in my back yard) attitude?
I did not attend the meeting last night, but I understand that the councillors were notably silent – Shouldn’t they be acting on our behalf?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 01:18:15 PM
I know Dave will try and shoot me down, but I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  Not one.  Never mind even a large A road.  The bridge on Windlehurst Road, the narrow Church Lane, the junction at Hibbert Lane/Stockport Road... It's the most unsuited set up to a large supermarket I can think of.  The way the Coop effects traffic around Hollins Lane is bad enough already when there are deliveries etc... I simply cannot agree that things would improve should a supermarket be built.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 01:19:27 PM
lAST NIGHTS MEETING IS ON UTUBE.  Oh my god ! I wish someone had let me know they were filming I would have had a shampoo and set  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 01:25:00 PM
lAST NIGHTS MEETING IS ON UTUBE.  Oh my god ! I wish someone had let me know they were filming I would have had a shampoo and set  :D

Links ! (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=youtube#q=marple+tesco+site:youtube.com&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&prmdo=1&tbs=qdr:d&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=vid&ei=-VQxTt7uI4er8AOggd2gDg&ved=0CD8QqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e66c6e0adf04fb7&biw=846&bih=837)


 ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 01:35:16 PM
lAST NIGHTS MEETING IS ON UTUBE.  Oh my god ! I wish someone had let me know they were filming I would have had a shampoo and set  :D

Links ! (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=youtube#q=marple+tesco+site:youtube.com&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=u&prmdo=1&tbs=qdr:d&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbm=vid&ei=-VQxTt7uI4er8AOggd2gDg&ved=0CD8QqwQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e66c6e0adf04fb7&biw=846&bih=837)
Oh I don't know how to do that , but I know a man who can. There are five videos on

 ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 28, 2011, 01:40:33 PM
quite right, heres the others;

Link 1 (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX4lqCodS_fk&rct=j&q=marple%20council%20meeting%20%20site%3Ayoutube.com&tbm=vid&tbs=qdr%3Ad&ei=YVgxToSgCcfX8gOL59SgDg&usg=AFQjCNF6Du65s1UQ6T9KKlJ559CZ12sbWg&cad=rja)

Linkl2 (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=video&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DuhZTtgj4tAo&rct=j&q=marple%20council%20meeting%20%20site%3Ayoutube.com&tbm=vid&tbs=qdr%3Ad&ei=YVgxToSgCcfX8gOL59SgDg&usg=AFQjCNH28mTQdMwSFrZSk6EaLhLzYBdQDA&cad=rja)


to make a link;

Click the little world symbol (hover over and a 'Insert Hyperlink' tooltip pops up

In the first square brackets that pops up, after url add '=link' where link is what you want to link to; its easiest to just copy and paste from the address bar of the site what want to link to.

Add some text between the two sets of square brackets in the middle, this is what will go blue and become a link.

Code: [Select]
[url=www.example.com]Example Text[/url]

will produce

Example Text (http://www.example.com)

with a link to www.example.com.

Sorry cant make it any simpler than that with this forum software ;)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on July 28, 2011, 01:41:03 PM
By the way. There were a number of people using Twitter at the meeing last night. Those of you using it should use the #nototesco and #marple hashtags. You should also subscribe to the list run by local resident Michael Taylor which is @MarpleLeaf/marple-tweeters

If you want to be added to his directory of local people using Twitter then message him at @MarpleLeaf
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on July 28, 2011, 01:47:04 PM
Local campaign resources.....

http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=708&Itemid=167

Maybe Tesco and A.N.Other are offering the College a 2 for 1 or double points deal :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lexymunro on July 28, 2011, 01:48:06 PM
I'm sending one of these letters to each governor at CAMSFC and would urge you all to do similar.

Marple Campus  
Hibbert Lane  
Marple  
Stockport  
SK6 7PA

28th July 28, 2011

Re:  Proposed Sale of Hibbert Lane Campus

Dear Lawrie Grant

I am writing to you regarding the information, which is now in the public domain, that CAMSFC is proposing to enter into a deal with one of the major supermarkets.

As a resident of Marple during my childhood, and more recently as a parent of two young children, my family and I are STRONGLY opposed to the Hibbert Lane Campus becoming a supermarket on the following grounds:

•   We, along with many other local residents, chose to live in Marple because of its quiet village nature and its thriving local centre comprising small, friendly shops.  The presence of a large supermarket would unquestionably change this.

•   We are very worried about the inevitable drop in house prices.

•   We are seriously concerned about the impact of increased traffic in the area, including air and noise pollution and safety to other road users, including pedestrians and cyclists.  As it is Marple is choked with traffic at peak times.  There simply isn’t room.

•   Aesthetically the whole area would be changed into just another faceless town.

•   Whilst the college requires upgrading, its reputation would be irrevocably damaged by the adverse publicity, which will undoubtedly be huge.

I urge you to reconsider your plans and put community goodwill and the 25 000 residents of Marple at the heart of your decisions.  I believe, as a community institution, that you have a moral responsibility to do this.  Indeed, I woud direct you to your own website and following claim:

"The Marple campus is close to the centre of the attractive village of Marple and both our sites, at Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane, are surrounded by extensive grounds to give a great feeling of space and freedom."

We are all well aware of what happens when the large supermarkets appeal planning decisions, so I feel very strongly indeed that the buck stops with you, the governors, and you alone.  Please do the right thing, for Marple, and globalisation as a whole, and sell to a developer who will help retain Marple’s unique character.

I look forward to a response.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor Meldrew on July 28, 2011, 02:06:30 PM
What about the employment that would be created,we already have the CO-OP and that hasnt taken away all the local buisiness

This is taken directly from www.tescopoly.org on the "basic facts about supermarkets" page

Supermarkets destroy local jobs. Supermarket claims that new stores bring in jobs fail to consider the wider picture of independent retailer bankruptcies. A 1998 study by the National Retailer Planning Forum (NRPF) examining the employment impacts of 93 superstore openings between 1991 and 1994 found that they resulted in a net loss of more than 25,000 jobs or 276 per store opened. More information on the impact of supermarkets on jobs is available in Chapter 13 of the Competition Commission report on the power of the supermarkets.

Quote
The weak point is the college. They thought that we wouldnt bat an eyelid at what they propose to do. It is them who hold the cards at this time. There is still time to persuade the board of governors to "do the right thing" and opt for a different sales ethic.

A brilliant point and a brilliant post. Imagine if every Governor received 200 or more letters like Mike's!!!

Please, everyone who is against this proposal, GET WRITING!!!

You are spot on about the loss of jobs which result in new supermarkets, which has been proven time and time again. Not only that, but the quality of jobs and the salary level paid to workers also plummets. Many people, unfortunately, just buy the myth that 'big and shiny new' means progress.

We get bulk & locally unavailable shopping items online, usually fortnightly, which leaves us free to shop locally for as much as possible, so I can't understand why some people on here argue that a new supermarket is good because it will save them petrol from driving to supermarkets 4 + miles away. They don't need to drive anywhere - the 21st century is here.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 02:28:54 PM
.... I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  Not one.  Never mind even a large A road.

Without even thinking about it, the following come to mind:

Tesco, Glossop
Morrisons, Bradford
Morrisons, Chesterfield
Asda, Hazel Grove
Sainsburys, Hazel Grove

None of the above are near a motorway or dual carriageway. Some of them are on already overcrowded roads.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 02:30:12 PM
.... I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  Not one.  Never mind even a large A road.

Without even thinking about it, the following come to mind:

Tesco, Glossop
Morrisons, Bradford
Morrisons, Chesterfield
Asda, Hazel Grove
Sainsburys, Hazel Grove

None of the above are near a motorway or dual carriageway. Some of them are on already overcrowded roads.

Oh! I missed an obvious one.

The Co-op, Marple

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 02:31:18 PM
I know Dave will try and shoot me down, but I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  

An invitation I can surely not refuse, marple-syrup!  For starters, how about the Co-op!   Also Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove, Tesco's in Glossop, Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme and Poynton, Morrison's and Waitrose in Buxton.

If Cllr McKay has stood down? do we know if the Governing Body is obliged to have a representative Cllr on their board - what is the legal standing on this?

I think they are advised that it is good practice, but not a legal requirement.  This is simply because in practice it would be unenforceable.

 
I still struggle to understand how the college GB can have so much weight in an issue as big as this?

Welcome to the future, Jo!  The present government, just like the previous two, is is hell-bent on reducing the powers of local authorities, and one of the ways they have done this is by taking colleges and then, increasingly, schools, away from local authority control. Hence the various forms of non-LA controlled schools that we now have - foundation schools, academies, and (coming soon), 'free schools'.  These will all be very much like camsfc - no local accountability, only a freestanding board governors who can do whatever they like.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on July 28, 2011, 02:50:11 PM
I know Dave will try and shoot me down, but I simply cannot think of another supermarket that would be so far moved from a motorway or dual carriageway.  

An invitation I can surely not refuse, marple-syrup!  For starters, how about the Co-op!   Also Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove,

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove are both directly on a dual carriageway
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 02:58:19 PM
And the a6 is obviously comparable in your minds to Hibbert Lane, or even to Stockport Road?
And Poynton, Bradford, Cheadle Hulme, even Hazel Grove are SO FAR RREMOVED FROM A MOTORWAY OR DUAL CARRIAGEWAY AS MARPLE?  Which was actually my question.  And I mentioned the Co-op myself!!
 Dave your speciality in particular is picking one word to undermine the essence of the argument.  If you seriously believe that the road network in Marple, meaning Hibbert Lane, Stockport Road, Wndlehurst Road, and Church Lane... ie. Every road that could be used to travel to the proposed supermarket... Is similar to the A6 in Hazel Grove, Macclesfield Road through Poynton, or the A57 that passes directly past the Glossop Tescos, you are absolutely deluded man.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 03:01:57 PM
Unless I'm very much mistaken, Asda and Sainsbury's in Hazel Grove are both directly on a dual carriageway

You are very much mistaken.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 28, 2011, 03:08:19 PM
And the a6 is obviously comparable in your minds to Hibbert Lane, or even to Stockport Road?
And Poynton, Bradford, Cheadle Hulme, even Hazel Grove are SO FAR RREMOVED FROM A MOTORWAY OR DUAL CARRIAGEWAY AS MARPLE?  Which was actually my question.  And I mentioned the Co-op myself!!
 Dave your speciality in particular is picking one word to undermine the essence of the argument.  If you seriously believe that the road network in Marple, meaning Hibbert Lane, Stockport Road, Wndlehurst Road, and Church Lane... ie. Every road that could be used to travel to the proposed supermarket... Is similar to the A6 in Hazel Grove, Macclesfield Road through Poynton, or the A57 that passes directly past the Glossop Tescos, you are absolutely deluded man.

All the stores mentioned are just as far from a motorway or dual carriageway as Marple. In fact they are further away. Marple is only 3 miles from a motorway.

As for the A6 and A57, they are far more congested than the A626 and were before the supermarkets were built. Both are at a crawl at most times of the day. The A626 is only busy at rush hour.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Mr Marple on July 28, 2011, 03:12:04 PM
Should Tesco be successful Marple will change and not for the better!

Marple will lose alot of its peaceful nature and the roads will become chockablock and will require alot of maintenance which costs money that the government doesn't have.

I can only hope that we, Marple residents, can give Tesco a good struggle.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Janneke on July 28, 2011, 03:20:22 PM
Apparently Poynton residents opposed Tesco successfully. Does anyone know anyone there?
They have of course got a Waitrose now, but it would be really interesting to know how they went about it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on July 28, 2011, 03:28:23 PM
In the paper, well virtual...
http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1454010_supermarket-land-row-meeting-moved-to-park-after-room-proves-too-small-as-hundreds-attend
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: dawn on July 28, 2011, 03:38:34 PM
I also heard that the baths and shop will be going so that a round-a-bout can be put there. I too am hoping that this was just a rumour  :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 28, 2011, 03:40:09 PM
Apparently Poynton residents opposed Tesco successfully. Does anyone know anyone there?
They have of course got a Waitrose now, but it would be really interesting to know how they went about it.

The tescopoly website has some details of the Poynton defeat.  From my understanding Tesco wanted to demolish a listed old cinema, which was a complete non-starter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marple_syrup on July 28, 2011, 03:59:13 PM
And the a6 is obviously comparable in your minds to Hibbert Lane, or even to Stockport Road?
And Poynton, Bradford, Cheadle Hulme, even Hazel Grove are SO FAR RREMOVED FROM A MOTORWAY OR DUAL CARRIAGEWAY AS MARPLE?  Which was actually my question.  And I mentioned the Co-op myself!!
 Dave your speciality in particular is picking one word to undermine the essence of the argument.  If you seriously believe that the road network in Marple, meaning Hibbert Lane, Stockport Road, Wndlehurst Road, and Church Lane... ie. Every road that could be used to travel to the proposed supermarket... Is similar to the A6 in Hazel Grove, Macclesfield Road through Poynton, or the A57 that passes directly past the Glossop Tescos, you are absolutely deluded man.

All the stores mentioned are just as far from a motorway or dual carriageway as Marple. In fact they are further away. Marple is only 3 miles from a motorway.

As for the A6 and A57, they are far more congested than the A626 and were before the supermarkets were built. Both are at a crawl at most times of the day. The A626 is only busy at rush hour.



Don't want to turn this debate away from what we should be talking about, but Hibbert Lane is 4.7 miles from the M60 network.  The Sainsburys at Hazel Grove is only three miles from the centre of Stockport, and a lot closer to the main links out towards Macclesfield. 
So stop nitpicking Harry, especially if you're wrong.  Onto the element of traffic, The A626 at rush hour, when it matters to me, can be backed up beyond Lisburne Lane in Offerton.  Dooley lane is simply un-negotiable.
The A6 is by no means crawling through the day... When was the lt time you travelled on it, as I do daily in my work?
Do you think Marple is suited to a big new supermarket on Hibbert Lane then?  If you think the A626 is pleasant now, then you'll suffer more than most when Tesco arrives, Mark my words!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 28, 2011, 04:04:59 PM

Welcome to the future, Jo!  The present government, just like the previous two, is is hell-bent on reducing the powers of local authorities, and one of the ways they have done this is by taking colleges and then, increasingly, schools, away from local authority control. Hence the various forms of non-LA controlled schools that we now have - foundation schools, academies, and (coming soon), 'free schools'.  These will all be very much like camsfc - no local accountability, only a freestanding board governors who can do whatever they like.


This is true and not beofre time in my opinion. THey are however, providing far more power to parish councils just removing power from hte town halls which have abused their powers somewhat in the past and we don't have to look too far to see it happening now.

School autonomy is not rally an issue, they must runt their organisation as efficiently as possible within the boudaries of the law. They will have to get plans past planning and that is where the pressure must be exhorted. In addition, how about parents withdraw their kids and send them to Aquinas until the plans are withdrawn.

 I don't really see the college's case for new buildings, Oxford & Cambridge are the best in the country and they get by with reet old buildings.

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 28, 2011, 04:21:10 PM
I don't really see the college's case for new buildings, Oxford & Cambridge are the best in the country and they get by with reet old buildings.

I like it - nice point, though no doubt tongue-in-cheek!  Trouble is, as you must realise, Duke, the issue with the camsfc buildings is not their age - they are between 50 and 80 years old, AFAIK - as their poor quality of construction and unsuitable design.   Oxbridge colleges may have been built centuries ago, but they were very well built (to say the least!) and they are still being used for exactly the same purpose.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 28, 2011, 05:05:53 PM
Can I just remind everyone that it within the College that this problem has started. I have it on good authority from one of the Marple in Action group who attended the meeting with the College yesterday  that the College applied for some funds to the then Learning and Skills Council in 2008 and were 2 weeks late with the application which has resulted in the current financial problem. I think someone at the College needs to be held accountable for this mess.

This now means that the rest of Marple has to suffer the consequences because of a late application. Now we are being held to ransom by thirteen college governors, some of whom have absolutely no connection with Marple, so they aren't going to be very sympathetic about what happens here.

At the risk of repeating myself, how has this been allowed to happen. They and Principal should resign in shame and a new board of governors should be elected, people who are competent and could help to sort this out.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 06:27:08 PM
I have received a huge amount of interest via the mobile number I left on a post.   This has been given for people who have not got Internet and has been past on to them via this web site  I am hoping that this will be the so called hot line for people to contact Marple in Action and it will be widely advertised   Once again the number is 07790419494 please leave your name, telephone number and a brief message and someone will contact you back and will keep you informed About our next mass protest which will take place very soon. The turn out last night was fantastic, made me proud to live in such a supportive community BUT ! The next protest meeting will need to be even bigger, as Sky Guy said it's going to be a long journey, so we need to spread the word and keep one another informed and also remember to keep our older residents informed so that they can have their voice heard.  It was very difficult trying to deliver leaflets to the whole of Marple so sadly some people were not aware of the meeting, so next time if people could volunteer to do their street, office , school, park, shops etc it would be fantastic.  So we can get your names ready for our next leaflet drop can you phone the number above or send a personal email via this site which is very easy to do and I am sure one of our group will give an example of how to do it after this post.  I hope that does not sound patronising but if you are new to the furrow it may be something you have not done before.   So please help deliver leaflets which will inform of the next protest, hope to hear from you soon  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: neil f on July 28, 2011, 06:45:19 PM

I will deliver in Hawk Green,Let me know when and how to get then.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 06:53:10 PM
Thanks I will let you know as soon as the date has been arranged 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: BidingTime on July 28, 2011, 07:30:07 PM
Its very hard to understand how anyone could think the roads of Marple would cope with the additional traffic a Tesco would bring  ???

The A626 is busy all the time (except maybe in the middle of the night) and to say it is only busy at rush hour does not make sense,eveyone knows how backed up that road is FOR HOURS (not just one hour rush hour) every morning (term time obviously worse) and how busy it is coming into Marple at anytime.
Add in extra traffic visiting the store,HGVs,deliveries all day/prob most of the night and its very hard to believe that Marple will not end up as a grid-locked/even noisier/more polluted town than it already is.

I suggest anyone who says Marple can cope with massive additional traffic tries to leave Marple every morning between 7.30am and 9.30 am and return anytime between 3pm and 6pm........do that for a full year in ALL weathers and then see if you have the same opinion.

The traffic issue is also before you bring in any affect on housing anywhere near the store/on routes towards it,chances of more anti-social behaviour at night in the area .........again imagine yourself in a house near the Hibbert lane site and see how you would feel about it.

If people drive to the proposed Tesco to shop they are not going to walk from Hibbert Lane into Marple to see the smaller shops or cafes etc .....why would they when Tescos will prob have a Cafe ? people very rarely walk anywhere now for any distance and they are not going to think after shopping......."Ohh i'll just walk down this congested un-interesting road to see a few shops or a canal"  
The majority will drive to Tesco-shop-drive home,job done.

As far as i can see for people that live in Marple the negatives far outweigh the positives,the only positive is it would give you more choice......why would anyone who lives in Marple think just that was worth all the traffic/housing problems added together with the very probable decline of a community feel with many local independant shops probably being forced to close.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on July 28, 2011, 09:12:27 PM
Lets open a community biscuit factory,now what shall we call the marple biscuit :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 09:49:48 PM
Two leaked emails that Ms Cassidy and Mr Hubert asked to be taken off this site have been seen digested  circulated and distributed to all that need to know.   THEY CAN RUN BUT THEY CAN NOT HIDE   Correction They tried to hide a lot  of information.   SHAME ON YOU !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 28, 2011, 10:10:22 PM
Have we got any idea yet of the mail or email address of any of the governors of the college. Please send a personal email asap  :(. Can anyone let us know who the supermarket is all very useful stuff that someone out there may know  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wardy123 on July 29, 2011, 12:59:33 AM
Unacceptable post overwritten. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 29, 2011, 07:25:12 AM
Now we are being held to ransom by thirteen college governors......They and Principal should resign in shame and a new board of governors should be elected, people who are competent and could help to sort this out.

And how exactly do you suggest they could 'sort this out' catwoman?  Unless they have a magic wand, they will need to raise the same money, and they will have to raise it in the same way.  A reputable (and no doubt expensive) property consultants, Turner and Townsend, have identified this as the way to raise the capital they need to finance their building, and that won't change. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lissb66 on July 29, 2011, 10:27:35 AM
Message for Dave.....

Care to enlighten us as to where you live? if it is in Marple at all? Is it anywhere near the planned supermarket site?  Actually I don;t care where you live, I am willing to bet it is not near Hibbert Lane!... It is all very well playing devils advocate and making a good arguement however the more valid arguements are those who are directly affected by this. Do you have to back bite every comment? It seems like you are just enjoying the arguement! Have a think about how this feels for those who have been kept in the dark, those who invested their lives in purchasing a property in the affected areas by increased traffic, noise, poloution, crime, light and devaluation of property? Have some empathy for god's sake!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 29, 2011, 10:56:04 AM
......affected areas by increased traffic, noise, poloution, crime, light and devaluation of property?

Increased crime?  Where did this one come from?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on July 29, 2011, 11:00:39 AM
 Ironically, if an indoor venue for the next mass meeting concerning flogging off the Hibbert Lane site to the known unknowns, is the best place available, in central Marple, the College itself in the Sport Hall or similar? Judging from the numbers that turned up on Wednesday, this may even be a tight fit.

And a big thank you to the lady and gentlemen from the Marple Action group, who attended a meeting at the college and brought the news, however unpalatable that was  >:(

Imagine the kerfuffle if this was 1828 and a certain Mr.Charles Warmsley announced his attention to build a Mill, finishing in 1830 which  will stand 5 storeys high, the weaving sheds and offices will more than treble this area, for the mill footprint. Noise, deliveries...In Marple with a population of 2,000 !

(thanks to Peter Clarke..http://www.marple-uk.com/hollins.htm)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: lissb66 on July 29, 2011, 11:11:29 AM
Harry,
Another devils advocate.. Not a Hibbert Lane resident either I am guessing?
Yes! Increased crime, it is known that supermarket car parks tend to attract anti social behaviour, car crime, thefts etc.. Even if you want to argue this point, (which I am sure you enjoy doing) that does not detract from from the other issues of noise, traffic & congestion, 24 hour floodlights, and devaluation of property to mention a few.
Like I said before, have some empathy for those who are directly affected by this and STOP NIT PICKING!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 29, 2011, 11:23:43 AM
Message for Dave.....

Care to enlighten us as to where you live? if it is in Marple at all? Is it anywhere near the planned supermarket site?  Actually I don;t care where you live, I am willing to bet it is not near Hibbert Lane!... It is all very well playing devils advocate and making a good arguement however the more valid arguements are those who are directly affected by this.

Yes I live in Marple, but not near Hibbert Lane.  And I have every sympathy for those who live near the site - in my view that is the one group of people who really do have good reason to oppose this plan, and they have by far the strongest case against it.  If I lived there I would probably feel just the same.  But as I have said before, I am not convinced by some of the other arguments, such as that the development would have a major adverse effect on local businesses.  And I do have a lot of sympathy for the college, which is just doing its best to improve its facilities for the benefit of the community. 

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 12:32:37 PM
Why would anyone think that the residents of Marple should bail out a PRIVATE company  For goodness sake they got the land given to them !  We are not speaking about a state run school !  THIS IS A PRIVATE BUISNESS !!!!!    Well I know what we should do, all the residents of Marple should have a whip round for all the failed shops in Marple, let's say we start with Grenaby Farm and Mulligans. Shall we pull those two shops down and set those failed Business up in the Trafford Centre in a brand new store.   No it's not practical is it ?  So how can a private company like the college be allowed to distroy  our community to get what they want, because I bet any money the likes of Mulligans and Grenaby didn't expect anything.   SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT !   Please enlighten me !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on July 29, 2011, 12:35:55 PM
Just a point of information for those people new to the forum.

Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College is not affiliated to the Council or to any local education authority, it operates autonomously much in the way a private limited compoany does.

The Principal and Board of Governors do not have to consult with anyone about what they do. They don't have to take any notice of what the planning department are saying to them about unsuitability of the site for a supermarket and refusal of planning applications. If they (the college) think they can get the money they want to carry out their plans from a supermarket developer they can just go ahead and do it. They don't have to consult with the community or anyone else.

Hey - this doesn't sound very fair to me. ???

Perhaps we should invite the Governors to the next public meeting and ask them to explain their position and how they think this is 'good community relations'.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 29, 2011, 02:13:16 PM
Harry,
Another devils advocate.. Not a Hibbert Lane resident either I am guessing?
Yes! Increased crime, it is known that supermarket car parks tend to attract anti social behaviour, car crime, thefts etc.. Even if you want to argue this point, (which I am sure you enjoy doing) that does not detract from from the other issues of noise, traffic & congestion, 24 hour floodlights, and devaluation of property to mention a few.
Like I said before, have some empathy for those who are directly affected by this and STOP NIT PICKING!!!!


Not true I'm afraid - I bet the police visit the area around the Co-op's car-park rather less than they do certain areas of Marple. Perhaps you should visit the Co-op car park at night ... it is extremely quiet except when the clientele of the cinema emerge after the night's film.
It has night-time (not 24-hour!) floodlights: they aren't a problem; in fact, they help to keep the area crime-free.

Many pubs are a bigger source of anti-social behaviour, drugs and crime but I don't see many people on this forum advocating their closure (and neither would I).

Noise? Well you should try Brabyns Park when there is a dog show there.

I don't live on Hibbert Lane but I bet I live closer to the Co-op than most of the people posting from that road. It isn't a problem. In fact, if the Co-op improved its retailing then it would actually be quite convenient.


Why would anyone think that the residents of Marple should bail out a PRIVATE company  For goodness sake they got the land given to them !  We are not speaking about a state run school !  THIS IS A PRIVATE BUISNESS !!!!!    Well I know what we should do, all the residents of Marple should have a whip round for all the failed shops in Marple, let's say we start with Grenaby Farm and Mulligans. Shall we pull those two shops down and set those failed Business up in the Trafford Centre in a brand new store.   No it's not practical is it ?  So how can a private company like the college be allowed to distroy  our community to get what they want, because I bet any money the likes of Mulligans and Grenaby didn't expect anything.   SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT !   Please enlighten me !

This is a private business but, unlike the shops that you mention, the College can't charge its users (6th-form students) directly ... at least, not yet! Nor can it change its income no matter how well it does its job (teaching) - unlike the shops which can choose to set their own prices and can expect to do well out of good retail practice.

I can see a big difference.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 29, 2011, 02:23:26 PM



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 29, 2011, 02:34:35 PM
SO WHAT'S DIFFERENT !   Please enlighten me !

Er, well, for a start, colleges provide education, free of charge; shops sell goods for profit.  Grenaby Farm and Mulligans closed because people were voting with their feet and going elsewhere to buy what they sold.  On the other hand, Camsfc is the only provider of 16-18 education (e.g. A levels) in Marple.  If it were allowed to close our children and grandchildren (huge numbers of them) would have to go elsewhere, and there isn't anywhere to go - there is certainly no spare capacity at Aquinas.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 02:41:56 PM
Perhaps we should invite the Governors to the next public meeting and ask them to explain their position and how they think this is 'good community relations'.

Governors, Councillors, local MP (didn't spot him at wednesday's meeting!), Turner+Townsend, CAMSFC management all welcome to attend.

In fact, I'd rather like the prospective buyers of the land to come along too.  Worth a punt by sending an invite to ASDA, Sainsburys and Tesco PR divisions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 29, 2011, 02:43:41 PM
Message for Dave.....

Care to enlighten us as to where you live? if it is in Marple at all? Is it anywhere near the planned supermarket site?  Actually I don;t care where you live, I am willing to bet it is not near Hibbert Lane!... It is all very well playing devils advocate and making a good arguement however the more valid arguements are those who are directly affected by this.

Yes I live in Marple, but not near Hibbert Lane.  And I have every sympathy for those who live near the site - in my view that is the one group of people who really do have good reason to oppose this plan, and they have by far the strongest case against it.  If I lived there I would probably feel just the same.  But as I have said before, I am not convinced by some of the other arguments, such as that the development would have a major adverse effect on local businesses.  And I do have a lot of sympathy for the college, which is just doing its best to improve its facilities for the benefit of the community.  

 

For what its worth, I believe that Dave has put forward a lot of well thought out arguments and that the action group should consider the points he raises and present similar well reasoned responses. Having attended many a public inquiry and seen local action groups shot down in flames because they rely on emotional responses rather than logic or evidence, it often pays to take a step back and view things from a wider perspective.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 02:44:46 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html

Yes.  Timeline showing how that council "rolled over" for Tesco is at http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 03:01:48 PM
Don't tell me its a charity ?  Nothing in life is free, they get monies from us the tax payer to educate the students which will also pay their enormous salaries!  Would anyone now send their child to a college that forgot to apply for a grant for funding this college transformation? I know I wouldn't and the word is spreading. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on July 29, 2011, 03:50:44 PM
Just been talking to a local couple who both feel that having a Tesco would be good for the area because they're sick of the Co-op having a monopoly and charging high prices. They did express a concern about the increase in traffic though. I said that small local businesses would be badly affected but they feel that the small shops are too expensive and that "the competition would do them good".

It's made me wonder what the Co-op's position is on this issue, because they surely must have an interest in opposing the Tesco too.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 03:52:03 PM
REMEMBER THE TWO LEAKED EMAILS. :-[      LETS NOT FORGET  !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 29, 2011, 03:52:18 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html

Yes.  Timeline showing how that council "rolled over" for Tesco is at http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg16183#msg16183)

That link is very interesting. What also is interesting is that there was a group against the tesco and a group for the tesco. I think this could happen here as like i said on another post, several people (but a minority still) i spoke to about the potential new store are in favour of it; mainly for cheaper prices and also as the Coop is seen as not very good.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 29, 2011, 04:04:34 PM
Actually Miss Marple i may well send my son to that college next year because theres not THAT much good choice around! Though I think boycotting organisations to show support for a particular campaign is effective I'm afraid if its going to negatively affect my childrens education and long term plans then I wont so please dont ask me to.

And Ditto Belly re comments about Dave.  We have to cut out the emotion and concentrate on facts.. and BOTH sides of the argument.  IF we cant convince them Not to buy it or the college not to sell then it will go to planning and if its refused as implied by the planning officer then the council and i expect a community group as well will be facing the supermarkets expensive top barristers!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 04:45:37 PM
Actually Miss Marple i may well send my son to that college next year because theres not THAT much good choice around! Though I think boycotting organisations to show support for a particular campaign is effective I'm afraid if its going to negatively affect my childrens education and long term plans then I wont so please dont ask me to.

And Ditto Belly re comments about Dave.  We have to cut out the emotion and concentrate on facts.. and BOTH sides of the argument.  IF we cant convince them Not to buy it or the college not to sell then it will go to planning and if its refused as implied by the planning officer then the council and i expect a community group as well will be facing the supermarkets expensive top barristers!
Your children will be fine just steer them away from Finance  and Buisness studies  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 09:28:18 PM
I have no real issue with living near a supermarket (used to live very close to the Morrisons in Bredbury) but I genuinely don't think living near the Co-op would be as much of an issue as living near a Tesco superstore-if indeed that is what is planned.  

I am concerned it could end up resembling the Portwood branch-and yes I live on Hibbert lane directly facing the college in fact.  Some of the posts on here re living near a store are a little harsh and somewhat unsympathetic.  If I bought my house with a supermarket there then fine, I am making an informed choice but I didn't.  

You only have to look at the size of the campus site to know it will not be a 2000 sq ft development despite what they say.

The Co-op is situated in the village shopping area-a little different to being right in front/behind/at the side of a residential area-the campus is surrounded by houses.  I bought here for the village life and whilst I will not be swayed re my comments above I genuinely oppose the development as I am concerned the village/community life will suffer and become a thing of the past-also concerned about the carnival and food festivals etc.  The increased traffic outside my house is also a major concern-it is already very busy and we cannot have our bedroom windows open at night in the summer due to the noise-admittedly this will only be an issue if it is a 24 hour store.

It will in my opinion go ahead and I am resigned to that fact but I am far from happy about it and will help wherever I can.  It is a shame but as some other people have mentioned, money talks.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 10:08:01 PM
Forgot to ask:
 - can we obtain details from the college re quotes for the development of Buxton lane?
 - will it genuinely cost £12million? Or is this just to line peoples pockets?
 - can it be done for the £4million offered by the residential developer?
 - If the site on Hibbert Lane is supposedly going to be 2000 sq ft then the site near memorial park (Hanburys?) is more than sufficient and is in fact bigger than what is being proposed-Co-op should release the hanbury site allowing competition thereby negating the monopoly argument.

In my eyes this would be a win/win situation for all parties.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 10:17:36 PM
- can we obtain details from the college re quotes for the development of Buxton lane?

Yes, Maria, you can certainly request those details, suggest you use site http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/).  The college is legally obliged to respond to such requests.  The wording used to request is fairly key, as the college will want to use the old "cannot release at this time on grounds of commercial sensitivity" line where possible.

I've done a few related ones with varying degrees of success.  See http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/neil_corrie (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/neil_corrie)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 10:34:25 PM
Thanks Neil, appreciated.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 11:15:31 PM
Anyone managed to get Andrew Stunell's view on all this? 

Apart from living locally and being our elected representative in Parliament, in his role of "Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department for Communities and Local Government" his remit (http://andrewstunell.org.uk/en/page/andrew) is


...all of which seem to play a part in this supermarket issue.

And he does seem to have an opinion on this, looking at an early day motion last year (http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2009-10/1174), where he was one of 18 MPs to speak out against Tesco's Stretford plans.  Regrettably,  Tesco won on that occasion (http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk/news/features/tesco_stretford/5057691._Death_knell__for_Stretford___say_no_campaigners/).  >:(

Stretford's action group site remains available at http://www.nomegatesco.org.uk/ (http://www.nomegatesco.org.uk/).

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 29, 2011, 11:24:29 PM
Part of the covenants say;

There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site

I recall it being suggested at the meeting in the park that provided such facilities were provided at Buxton lane this would satisfy the covenant-I assume this is suggested as the Hibbert lane site would be incorporated with Buxton lane.  I construe the above to mean the site i.e. the land-not the building.  It refers to the site being used for adult education-meaning the land-this should also apply to the latter covenants surely?

Is it correct to say the covenants apply to the land/site not the building?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
There are posters that you can now download for you to display in your window or car, that say                     

SAVE OUR COMMUNITY

NO SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE


PLEASE PLEASE START DOWNLOADING NOW TO TELL THE COUNCILLORS,GOVERNORS, ANDREW STUNELL MP, THE PLANNING DEPT, MS CASSIDY (Principal) Mr Hubert (finance) and whatever
SUPERMARKET THATS SNIFFING AROUND !  THAT MARPLE SAYS NO !!

LETS TURN THIS TOWN RED  !   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 29, 2011, 11:42:40 PM
There are posters that you can now download for you to display in your window or car, that say                     

SAVE OUR COMMUNITY

NO SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE

Here's the link http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/marple-in-action-no-poster.pdf (http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/marple-in-action-no-poster.pdf)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 29, 2011, 11:47:48 PM
Thanks for putting the link on Neil !  I Just couldn't  get the hang of it I think I was having a senior moment!  :o.

CHEERS MATE !!!!   :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 12:32:11 AM
Some posters have been put up tonight on trees , look out as your passing ! Sadly not as many as we would have liked because we were getting stopped often by concerned residents who were worried about the increased traffic a supermarket would bring and the safety of their children with increased traffic.  We also spoke to many elderly people who live at the side of the college and across the road who were in fear of the increased crime and noise a supermarket would bring ? SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY AND MR HUBERT I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT !  OH SILLY ME YOU DON'T LIVE HERE DO YOU !   

We also gave a clear message to residents to ask their local councillors what they are doing because if the councillors are not behind this all the way the LIBERALS will be out of Marple and we will have an out of work MP

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different !   TURN THIS VILLAGE RED   PLEASE PUT YOUR POSTER UP. BELIEVE ME TESCO WILL BE MONITORING THE COMMUNITIES REACTION !!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 11:10:50 AM
Just spoken to Margaret Mclay to express concerns at her involvement in any decision to allow the college to be sold to a supermarket.  Ms Mclay continually stated that she had raised her concerns with Ms Cassidy about the opposition the college would face in Marple if the college continued down this route.  Ms Mclay stated that she really did not think that the principle understands how strong the community feelings are towards the college being used for retail.   I have asked Ms Mclay to pass on the concerns of residents to the college governors and to advise her that public opposition is growing and that the last Area Committee meeting whereby 300 concerned residents gathered was really only the start.  What was interesting was that Ms Mcay told me that the college now had some form of charity status which they had recently been given. What was also interesting was that Ms Mclay said that she did not know that the college had missed out on funding due to not applying in time and that she would be speaking directly to the college and governors about this matter.
Ms Mcay also told me about how Holmfirth had won their battle against Tesco with the help of the Coop !  SO BRING IT ON BRYCE !    ;D.   BRYCE FOR MP ??  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 30, 2011, 12:48:22 PM
Some posters have been put up tonight on trees , look out as your passing ! Sadly not as many as we would have liked because we were getting stopped often by concerned residents who were worried about the increased traffic a supermarket would bring and the safety of their children with increased traffic.  We also spoke to many elderly people who live at the side of the college and across the road who were in fear of the increased crime and noise a supermarket would bring ? SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY AND MR HUBERT I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT !  OH SILLY ME YOU DON'T LIVE HERE DO YOU !   

We also gave a clear message to residents to ask their local councillors what they are doing because if the councillors are not behind this all the way the LIBERALS will be out of Marple and we will have an out of work MP

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different !   TURN THIS VILLAGE RED   PLEASE PUT YOUR POSTER UP. BELIEVE ME TESCO WILL BE MONITORING THE COMMUNITIES REACTION !!!
Have you had permission to post on trees .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 30, 2011, 02:00:08 PM
No trees were harmed, I saw people hugging them ,speaking to them and kissing them all goodnight. ZZZZZZ Awh!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 03:54:08 PM
Some posters have been put up tonight on trees , look out as your passing ! Sadly not as many as we would have liked because we were getting stopped often by concerned residents who were worried about the increased traffic a supermarket would bring and the safety of their children with increased traffic.  We also spoke to many elderly people who live at the side of the college and across the road who were in fear of the increased crime and noise a supermarket would bring ? SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY AND MR HUBERT I HOPE YOU CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT !  OH SILLY ME YOU DON'T LIVE HERE DO YOU !   

We also gave a clear message to residents to ask their local councillors what they are doing because if the councillors are not behind this all the way the LIBERALS will be out of Marple and we will have an out of work M

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different !   TURN THIS VILLAGE RED   PLEASE PUT YOUR POSTER UP. BELIEVE ME TESCO WILL BE MONITORING THE COMMUNITIES REACTION !!!
Have you had permission to post on trees .
. IS IT YOU THAT HAS TAKEN THEM DOWN?  IF IT IS HIBBERT LANE RESIDENTS ARE AFTER YOU  :o
WE HAVE GOT PLENTY MORE  :-*. BIGGER AND BETTER !!!  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 04:27:21 PM
I am getting a little concerned that some people I have been speaking to do not understand just how large this supermarket is going to be  ??? Some people think that's it's going to be something like a Tesco Express using the 1934 building  ???  Now I can not do it, but I am sure someone can, So can we put on here a picture of the one in Cheadle Heath giving height and coverage   The land at Hibbert Lane is 8.6 acres and the supermarket can built on nearly 6 acres.   That's the size of 6 FOOTBALL PITCHES!   Can you imagine the amount of noise and lights 24 hrs a day 264 days of the year   :-*
Residents are also becoming concerned on Buxton Lane and Cross lane due to when the Hibbert Lane college closes they will have twice as much traffic, twice as many coaches and twice as many students  Cross Lane is also concerned that they maybe become the rat run off Stockport Road up to the supermarket
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on July 30, 2011, 04:30:37 PM
The Marple in Action website mentions "our already congested roads". The roads in Marple are only busy at rush hour, in the morning and mid-afternoon. A new supermarket won't suddenly mean lots of people coming to Marple to go shopping during rush hour.

It also mentions the new supermarket should "Have conditions imposed so that it can only sell groceries (no flowers, newspapers, stationery, clothes, shoes, electrical goods) so that it doesn't impact on local shops too much." I don't see anyone telling the Co-op they should stop selling certain things.  ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on July 30, 2011, 05:25:19 PM
I'm still wondering where the idea that Tesco are building a 6 acre, 24hr store comes from. What possible reason would they do that? It is ridiculous and will NOT happen.

The store in Stockport is in a catchment area of hundreds of thousands, next to the motorway etc. And just about justifies 24hr opening. Why would you possibly think it would make good business sense to open such a big store, not too far away from competition (sainsburys, morrisons, co-op)

IF Tesco buys the land (which will probably only happen if CAMSFC have already got permission for change of usage class) then it would be no bigger than the Glossop branch, perhaps even smaller and certainly not 24hrs.

-just guessing! Like everyone else is!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 05:50:19 PM
The Civic society have information provided by Ms Cassidy   It was circulated at the Area committee meeting I will see if we can put the email on the site may have to get permission from college first this time  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 30, 2011, 05:51:42 PM
At the meeting last week the council planning dept (who have had exploratory talks with CAMSFC) when asked what size of Supermarket could they build on the site, replied one about the size of Morrissons in Cheadle Heath. He also pointed out that 10 years after they buy the site they can also build on the playing fields (another 5 acres) !!!
This ain't going to be a convenience store more like a horrible inconvenient store (for the people of Marple)+ retail park.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 30, 2011, 05:55:07 PM
but i thought the council planning department had already said that they would refuse planning app as its designated housing land? Becuase tis contrary to Stockports core planning stategy? so why is the planning dept now saying they can?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 06:37:29 PM
Hi Lisa at the meeting we had with the Principal and Mr Hubert (finance ) last Wed.  The principle informed all present that, she had two interested supermarkets but that they had a preferred one and  after the governors meeting in Oct 2011 she would be signing with her preferred supermarket.  When asked about issues the college would face re planning regulations her reply was that the colleges legal team had assured the college that they could over come any regulations which would prevent the college from selling and the supermarket from building.  We were all shocked that it had got this far and amazed at the confidence of the principle as she delivered the news.  We had also been informed that the people of Marple had been involved in a telephone poll that showed all involved that a supermarket was what the community wanted.  I have not been contacted have you or has anyone you know been contacted ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: BidingTime on July 30, 2011, 06:59:50 PM
Where does anyone get the idea Marples roads are only busy at rush hour ?? i've already answered this in another post but Marples "rush hour" is not ONE hour morning and evening.........its for HOURS (pleural).
Try leaving Marple YEAR ROUND anytime between 7am and 9.30am and returning between 3pm and 6pm and then say Marples roads are not busy.

OF COURSE people are going to be shopping to and from a proposed Tescos between the hours of 3pm and 6pm.

The idea that Marple has ONE rush hour AM and PM is fantasy and i can only guess people who do not drive in and out of Marple at the times stated have that fantasy  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 07:12:42 PM
I agree have you seen Marple Hall students trying to cross down near the school it's dreadful and a wonder no one has been injured.   The emergency services must be horrified by the news of increased traffic, I often see them trying to get past cars queuing on and around Dan Bank..  I sometimes wonder if the people who post on this site even live in Marple, shall we ask Admin  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 30, 2011, 08:41:14 PM
Part of the covenants say;

There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site

I recall it being suggested at the meeting in the park that provided such facilities were provided at Buxton lane this would satisfy the covenant-I assume this is suggested as the Hibbert lane site would be incorporated with Buxton lane.  I construe the above to mean the site i.e. the land-not the building.  It refers to the site being used for adult education-meaning the land-this should also apply to the latter covenants surely?

Is it correct to say the covenants apply to the land/site not the building?

Hi Maria - that's a good question : the college's response to the convenant FOI failed to cover the wording of the covenant and failed to cover the Buxton Lane / Cheadle covenant details.  I've asked them to expand/clarify, see http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#outgoing-143240 (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#outgoing-143240)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 30, 2011, 08:44:24 PM
Hi Lisa at the meeting we had with the Principal and Mr Hubert (finance ) last Wed.  The principle informed all present that, she had two interested supermarkets but that they had a preferred one and  after the governors meeting in Oct 2011 she would be signing with her preferred supermarket.  When asked about issues the college would face re planning regulations her reply was that the colleges legal team had assured the college that they could over come any regulations which would prevent the college from selling and the supermarket from building.  We were all shocked that it had got this far and amazed at the confidence of the principle as she delivered the news.  We had also been informed that the people of Marple had been involved in a telephone poll that showed all involved that a supermarket was what the community wanted.  I have not been contacted have you or has anyone you know been contacted ?
               Yes Over twelve months ago outside mcays lady doing survey .just general questions what would you like to see in Marple super market did get mentioned . [ i am not making this up] Miss Marple .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 30, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
The Marple in Action website mentions "our already congested roads". The roads in Marple are only busy at rush hour, in the morning and mid-afternoon.
OK.  So you're saying that during daylight hours, the roads in Marple are ok between 12:00 and 14:00 but busy all other times.  That sounds fairly congested to me.

A new supermarket won't suddenly mean lots of people coming to Marple to go shopping during rush hour.
Disagree.  The Tesco in Glossop, for example, and is very busy during the evening rush hour (folk getting the week's groceries while they're passing on their way home).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 30, 2011, 08:59:19 PM
I live on Hibbert Lane and notice throughout the day emergency services going up and down the road at all hours-using it as a main cut through between both Stockport road and the A6 (Stepping Hill Hostpital). The nearest other 2 roads linking Stockport Road to the A6 are Offerton Road (Dan Bank) and Albion Road (New Mills) about 5miles apart.

I know that the pro Tesco people out there are stating the traffic will not be increased substantially in Marple-BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY GOING TO INCREASE ON HIBBERT LANE/WINDLEHURST ROAD-And that is FACT.

TESC-NO

Every big superstore doesnt help!!!

Mike
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 30, 2011, 09:10:02 PM
Further to my last post I have just remembered that there is a small connecting bridge with traffic lights connecting Hibbert Lane/Windlehurst Lane.  Is this going to mean that ALL the large lorries delivering to the supermarket will be coming in/out of Marple via Dan Bank/Strines Road?

TESC-NO

Every big superstore doesnt help!!!

Mike
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 30, 2011, 10:14:20 PM
Further to my last post I have just remembered that there is a small connecting bridge with traffic lights connecting Hibbert Lane/Windlehurst Lane.  Is this going to mean that ALL the large lorries delivering to the supermarket will be coming in/out of Marple via Dan Bank/Strines Road?

Yep. I can't see how those 44 foot 38 tonne lorries could make it over that bridge.  Up to 50 deliveries per day.  Could be tricky negotiating around the Marple Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane roundabout too, hence the suspicion that the swimming pool+newsagent would need demolishing and then building a large roundabout using the newly-flattened land.

(size/weight/frequency estimate taken from here (http://saveashtead.co.uk/what-we-would-like-to-see/our-letter-on-objection/lorry-traffic-generation-at-tesco-stores/))
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 30, 2011, 11:46:56 PM
Interesting analysis (less emotional and less reactionary than we've seen of late in the forum) covering the Marple vs Supermarket Superpowers battle, at Didsbury resident (and CAMSFC alumni) Josef Darlington's blog.

http://www.josefadarlington.co.uk/1/post/2011/07/the-marple-tesco-situation.html (http://www.josefadarlington.co.uk/1/post/2011/07/the-marple-tesco-situation.html)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 30, 2011, 11:53:54 PM
Hi can one of you put the Holmfirth article on it's the one where the coop helped the community defeat Tesco ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on July 31, 2011, 12:35:28 AM
An article on the Holmfirth story is here...  THERE IS HOPE!!

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6873375.ece (http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6873375.ece)

Re the phone survey mentioned by Miss Marple in post 457 - I believe I participated in this. A couple of months ago a well-spoken man cold-called to ask about my shopping habits. As far as I can remember, the questions were did I use local stores for my supermarket shopping, and for toys, clothes, fruit and veg, electrical goods and car accessories. My answers were that I do use an out of town supermarket for large items - washing powder, loo rolls, cereals, fruit juice. I usually use Aldi in Stockport because I drive past this on my way home from work. I do not drive past the Co-op and if I did I would avoid it because the car park is a nightmare at busy times (too many Mellor tractors). Everything else is bought locally from the Co-op (I walk there) and local shops. Regarding spend, I'd say 75% is local.

I sincerely hope this wasn't taken as a vote of approval for a new superstore in Marple. If the question had been "Do you want a Tesco Extra in Marple" the answer would have been NO NO NO!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 31, 2011, 12:47:07 AM
thanks for putting that link on !   Apparently Tesco do it by car reg recognition , they get to know which of their stores you visit by clocking the reg, so we will all have to stop going to Tesco or black your reg out driving into Tesco Car park
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 31, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
thanks for putting that link on !   Apparently Tesco do it by car reg recognition , they get to know which of their stores you visit by clocking the reg, so we will all have to stop going to Tesco or black your reg out driving into Tesco Car park

Nice theory Miss Marple, but it's actually done using their CRUCIBLE database.  By presenting your Clubcard when paying for goods, you announce yourself to Tesco, allowing them to track your name, address, purchase history to Tesco.  They then use the ZODIAC tool to do more advanced profiling (like "how many Glossop Tesco shoppers who live in SK6 visited our store during w/c 1st August 2011, and what was their average spend").

If you don't like it, options are : boycott Tesco, shop there but don't present your Clubcard, or the really sneaky option is to swap your Clubcard with a friend in another town in order to screw up their data.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 31, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Blog is interesting but there isn't much counter argument. 

Can anyone confirm what the 2 supermarkets are? Is one definately Tesco?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 31, 2011, 10:51:50 AM
miss marple...i understand that the college think they can by pass it ..the point im trying to make is this is TWO different planning men from stockport council saying TWO different things.. its a worry and needs clarification from the head of planning.  They really should at this stage be singing from same song book.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on July 31, 2011, 10:59:57 AM
To JMC - I believe other supermarket chain was Waitrose - offered £6m. Housing would generate £2m, Tesco offered £12m.
Was told this by the chap behind the counter at White's butchers.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 31, 2011, 11:02:03 AM
To JMC - I believe other supermarket chain was Waitrose - offered £6m. Housing would generate £2m, Tesco offered £12m.
Was told this by the chap behind the counter at White's butchers.

Thanks Cyberman.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 31, 2011, 11:12:21 AM
To JMC - I believe other supermarket chain was Waitrose - offered £6m. Housing would generate £2m, Tesco offered £12m.
Was told this by the chap behind the counter at White's butchers.

Not quite the same as what we heard when it was discovered that the college governors met to discuss bids received last week. Then it was said that bids were received from Tesco, Sainsbury and Waitrose, with the Waitrose bid being too low. At the Area Committee Meeting Tesco and Asda were mentioned as the two being considered, so all that seems to be clear is that we're not certain who the two really are.

An interesting comment passed at the Area Committee in the Park was that the college grant application (that was apparently submitted two weeks too late) was only for £7M, so why do they need £12M now?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on July 31, 2011, 11:19:55 AM
as this rumour has been going round for ever and now proves to be true   how did supposedly  well educated people apply for the grant two weeks late it smells a bit fishy to me  they must have known the time frame to apply
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on July 31, 2011, 11:23:07 AM
as i stated on the 17th august 2006 these thing are cut and dried long before they become public knowledge
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 31, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 31, 2011, 12:13:07 PM
Circled by the Peak Forest Canal, Marple Village is less than one mile from the development and offers a range of local amenities for all your everyday needs. Alongside a selection of shops and restaurants, the village is also dotted with plenty of traditional pubs, and it boasts one of the country's few remaining independent cinemas.

It's a village surrounded by natural beauty, with endless canal tow path walks and numerous parks to relax in, including The Roman Lakes - popular with anglers, walkers, horse riders and nature lovers.

And if you like to up the pace a little in your free time, you can make the most of the local leisure and sports clubs too, including a swimming pool, football, rugby, cricket and golf clubs.


The above is taken from a housing development site advertising new houses in Marple and to me summaries why we do not need a superstore.

Apathy must be overcome and we must do all we can in a proactive cohesive way if we are going to beat the proposed application.  Have any further meetings/gatherings to discuss who can do what been set up? One large group will be more effective rather than small groups of individuals.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 31, 2011, 01:50:37 PM
Even if the college had been successfull with their bid for funding, they would still have been looking to sell the Hibbert Lane site, so all this about missing deadlines by 2 weeks is a red herring and is diverting attention from the real issues.
In Aug 2006 the college was already looking at selling the land.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 02:54:20 PM
Even if the college had been successfull with their bid for funding, they would still have been looking to sell the Hibbert Lane site, so all this about missing deadlines by 2 weeks is a red herring and is diverting attention from the real issues.
In Aug 2006 the college was already looking at selling the land.

No they weren't.

The original plan was to build on the Hibbert Lane car park and then demolish the old building.

It was the Buxton Lane site that had an uncertain future at that time.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on July 31, 2011, 02:56:54 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.
(http://www.autism-is-us.com/images/com.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on July 31, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
I've just watched the 'TOWN' programme on BBC iplayer that was on during the week. It was about Ludlow and there was a bit about Tescos wanting to build a store on the outskirts of the town. Naturally the town was concerned that the store would take custom away from the local shops and eventually it was agreed that Tesco would build in the centre of the town.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on July 31, 2011, 04:19:04 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Yes, i removed the fuel garage, as i'm not 100% sure if tesco is going to add a fuel station on the COM development, apart from that everything else is there.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 04:34:40 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Yes, i removed the fuel garage, as i'm not 100% sure if tesco is going to add a fuel station on the COM development, apart from that everything else is there.

You're not 100% sure they will have a clothing department either, so why not reduce it for that also? Same applies to every other department. If you're going to compare the sites do it honestly and properly.

In fact, you're not 100% sure that Tesco are even interested in opening in Marple. It could be any of the supermarkets.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on July 31, 2011, 04:38:43 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.

Interesting to note that both the Tesco sites are incomplete. They have both been 'trimmed' to make them look smaller than they actually are.
Yes, i removed the fuel garage, as i'm not 100% sure if tesco is going to add a fuel station on the COM development, apart from that everything else is there.

You're not 100% sure they will have a clothing department either, so why not reduce it for that also? Same applies to every other department. If you're going to compare the sites do it honestly and properly.

In fact, you're not 100% sure that Tesco are even interested in opening in Marple. It could be any of the supermarkets.

I'm going off the fact that tescos has expressed interest in purchasing the site. And i would also point out that the comparision is purely to show people the size of the land, not what tescos (or any other food chain) could build on the site.

At any rate, the site is still huge, and has more than enough space to accomodate a full blown superstore, which is what that comparision set out to show.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on July 31, 2011, 04:46:45 PM
I though that i'd give people a true idea of the size of the COM site, as someone said that it wasn't that big.
I should also point out that there is no "technical trickary" at play here, everything you see is to the same scale.
(http://www.autism-is-us.com/images/com.jpg)

Interesting post Smithy166.  While we're not entirely sure it's necessarily Tesco wanting to buy the site, the comparison gives a really good insight into possible supermarket size.  Any folk think it's going to be a quaint little Tesco Express should have their illusions shattered by your images.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 31, 2011, 04:52:06 PM
I'm going off the fact that tescos has expressed interest in purchasing the site. And i would also point out that the comparision is purely to show people the size of the land, not what tescos (or any other food chain) could build on the site.

At any rate, the site is still huge, and has more than enough space to accomodate a full blown superstore, which is what that comparision set out to show.

Its not a fact that Tesco have expressed an interest, its a rumour.

Why not compare it to a football pitch? Somebody thinks its the size of 6 of these.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 31, 2011, 05:11:29 PM
Stockport Green Party have raised their concerns over the proposed sale, including the prospect of the swimming pool being demolished, see this link (http://www.greenparty.org.uk/localsites/stockport/news/Marple_Greens_raise_Tesco_concern.html).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 31, 2011, 09:21:55 PM
Stephen Downs
Contacted MARPLE in Action  today to say

That the Min's of the meeting of 12 th July will show that he withdrew from the meeting when Hibbert Lane was discussed and that he has now subsequently resigned as he states that he disagrees 100%
with the proposals.  

One down how many more to go  ???    SHAME ON YOU MS CASSIDY EVEN YOUR GOVENOURS REALISE THAT WE ARE A STRONG COMMUNITY AND THAT YOUR PROPOSALS ARE RIDICULOUS.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 12:23:01 AM
Karen Moore Governor     K.Moore@mmu.ac.uk.  0161 247 1021 ,
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 12:36:41 AM
Dr Anand Dutta Governor and also a Governor for NHS foundation trust   Stockport

Email via.  Petra.Richardson@stockport.nhs.uk


AND WERE OFF  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 08:31:15 AM
ITS ASDA !!

We have just received a tip of from a very very reliable source and the favourite is ASDA

TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY MS CASSIDY IT'S NOT EVEN A BRITISH COMPANY

WELL I HOPE YOU "HAVE A NICE DAY "  MS CASSIDY BECAUSE THE PEOPLE OFF MARPLE ARE HAVING AN AWFUL ONE !!!!

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 01, 2011, 08:52:36 AM
It is a pity that Stephen Downs has resigned as we could have done with his no vote at the next meeting. Does anyone have his contact details he could have very valuable information for Marple in Action.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mikes on August 01, 2011, 10:17:27 AM
Have any of you seen this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14326362

I guess the same would be said of an ASDA.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on August 01, 2011, 12:15:42 PM
I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.  

This is true, we did a lot of work with colleges and huge swathes of them got cancelled, a lot after significant sums were spent on design fees. The colleges were led to believe that the money was just a formality. Head of LSC lost his jobs, loads of poorer colleges effectively wasted a load of money. A dreadful state of affairs.  :(

We did the acoustics on Acquinas FWIW :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 01, 2011, 01:42:27 PM
So asdas the favorate now?
We could do with changing the topic title at some point then  ::)

The more I look at this the more I think that the way to beat the Town killer guganaught is to convince another company to buy the site, weither that be housing, A leasure complex (a bit like hyde pool -  built in conjunction with marple baths) or maybe a small retail park type affair, so its not just one huge store, but several little ones.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on August 01, 2011, 03:11:29 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 01, 2011, 03:20:27 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?

His website hasn't been updated in 3 months! (give or take), so either hes on holiday or doing what most MPs do - burying his head in the sand hoping it will all go away
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 01, 2011, 04:27:50 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?

His website hasn't been updated in 3 months! (give or take), so either hes on holiday or doing what most MPs do - burying his head in the sand hoping it will all go away

I would suggest that insulting our MP is not the best way to enlist his assistance.

If his website hasn't been updated for 3 months (give or take), then its very clever that it includes his activities in Parliament within the last two weeks.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 01, 2011, 04:30:44 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.

We have sent letters to all the governers at the college, and emailed a copy to Andrew Stunnel. Is our MP on holiday, as his silence far has been deafening ?

His website hasn't been updated in 3 months! (give or take), so either hes on holiday or doing what most MPs do - burying his head in the sand hoping it will all go away

I would suggest that insulting our MP is not the best way to enlist his assistance.

If his website hasn't been updated for 3 months (give or take), then its very clever that it includes his activities in Parliament within the last two weeks.

I apologise, as usual I jumped the gun. As i based what i said on the "recent updates" section on the homepage.
Mr stunnel also has a facebook page located herehttp://en-gb.facebook.com/andrew.stunell?sk=wall (http://en-gb.facebook.com/andrew.stunell?sk=wall). I'm woundering weather messaging him via that page (or friending him) might get a more prompt respone?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 01, 2011, 04:38:31 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 01, 2011, 04:43:03 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
I think he is refering to the college governors.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 01, 2011, 04:59:32 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
I think he is refering to the college governors.


So that would include the ones who have been elected. As stated on the college website.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 01, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?
I think he is refering to the college governors.


So that would include the ones who have been elected. As stated on the college website.
I thought they were all elected, not just one or two.
I'm not sure weither this is relavent but the estates commity hasn't met since last year, which leads me to belive this little "plan" has been in the pipe longer than we first thought.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 09:14:57 PM
There will be some meetings taking place very soon when a large enough venue can be found which can accommodate 100 - 150 people at a time.  MARPLE in action are aware due to the high volume of phone calls to the action line that the community wants to become involved and active   A  series of meetings will be held  whereby we can organise ourselves into action groups, there is a wealth of knowledge and skills out there which we need if we are to succeed.
  There are lots of things going on behind the scenes and although it looks like its all gone quiet believe me it has not.  There are lots of people doing the ground work and finding things out which are beneficial to our cause.   One of our main aims is to hold a mass rally in the Memorial Park and to invite Ms Cassidy, Mr Hubert and the  GOVENOURS (invites have been sent to ask for their attendance)  Andrew Stunall when back off his holidays this week will be contacting MARPLE In Action to inform us of his availability and of course all our elected councillors have been asked to attend but to date only three have replied. 
We did collect email addresses at the last Area committee meeting so we will be contacting you via email to ask if you will attend a meeting, we will also leaflet drop again , and will be relying on word of mouth.  So please bear with us this is just the start.   If you have not given an email address or contact telephone number please do so now either by a personal message via the forum or contact the action line on 07790419494. Together we are strong ! Please become involved  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 01, 2011, 09:37:36 PM
I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.   

Gosh, so when you are blaming the lack of funding on school & college building on the current coalition government you were actually saying something you knew not to be true to make cheap political capital. In reality, it was yet another example of out of control spending by the Scottish PM's government. Tssk tssk.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 01, 2011, 10:17:43 PM
Apologies thought it would be obvious-the proposed sale of the site to a retailer as the preferred option.
.  Cheers Maria for searching out information !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 02, 2011, 07:24:20 AM
I appear to have confused you, Duke - my aplogies.
1. About three years ago, shortly before its demise, the LSC got itself into a mess by promising capital fundind which it did not actually have. There was no overspening, however - the promises were withdrawn and various college had to abandon their building projects, as Acoustician has conifrimed on this thread.
2. Entirely unrelated to that cock up by the LSC, last year the newly-elected government scrapped the previous government's school (not college) building scheme called Building Schools for the future.
That's all.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 02, 2011, 08:44:32 AM
I appear to have confused you, Duke - my aplogies.
1. About three years ago, shortly before its demise, the LSC got itself into a mess by promising capital fundind which it did not actually have. There was no overspening, however - the promises were withdrawn and various college had to abandon their building projects, as Acoustician has conifrimed on this thread.
2. Entirely unrelated to that cock up by the LSC, last year the newly-elected government scrapped the previous government's school (not college) building scheme called Building Schools for the future.
That's all.

I think we agree that the totally inept labour government completely mismanaged a spending program (yet again). It's hugely hypocritical of that party and it's deluded supporters to critiques the current governments remedial action.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 02, 2011, 09:08:20 AM
I think you said in our last text that you followed the thread on here so this is the only way of getting a message to you.
All I want to say is please contact me again you could really  help the people of MARPLE  I think you may have been concerned that we would share your identity or contact details with others but I can assure you that we would do everything  to protect your identity   I provided you with some information in one of our lasts texts, I hope probably will change  to Yes  ???  please help us ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on August 02, 2011, 09:26:14 AM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?

Whoops my mistake, apologies. I was trying, without success to convey the notion that unlike local, or national politicians the committee, whose members may well be sympathetic to the aims of Marple in Action, are not accountable to the populous of Marple. But doubtless will be torn between the needs of the college, present and future, and the need to consider Marple's present and the effect of any decision on it's future.

Perhaps I should throw the spade out of the hole, as my logic seems to be awry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on August 02, 2011, 09:52:10 AM
I think we agree that the totally inept labour government completely mismanaged a spending program (yet again). It's hugely hypocritical of that party and it's deluded supporters to critiques the current governments remedial action.

I think were getting massively off topic.

Wiki on LSC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_and_Skills_Council) if you're interested.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 02, 2011, 12:22:43 PM
Being naive, what is staggering in this whole process maybe the role that an (unlucky ?) thirteen unelected people can have in changing the face of Marple, irrevocably. And the lack of power in local and national politics to take on the aggressive supermarkets.


Who are these 'thirteen unelected people' mentioned above?

Whoops my mistake, apologies. I was trying, without success to convey the notion that unlike local, or national politicians the committee, whose members may well be sympathetic to the aims of Marple in Action, are not accountable to the populous of Marple. But doubtless will be torn between the needs of the college, present and future, and the need to consider Marple's present and the effect of any decision on it's future.

Perhaps I should throw the spade out of the hole, as my logic seems to be awry.

I think that's a red herring, yes there are unelected people who are going their jobs in getting the best deal they can for the college. Whilst tehre is a chance of them selling hte site for £12m they will hope to do so, & rightly so.

It's for elected people to then put the checks and balances into motion to ensure anydevelopment is not going to be detrimental to the voters of Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 02, 2011, 12:40:49 PM
I think you said in our last text that you followed the thread on here so this is the only way of getting a message to you.
All I want to say is please contact me again you could really  help the people of MARPLE  I think you may have been concerned that we would share your identity or contact details with others but I can assure you that we would do everything  to protect your identity   I provided you with some information in one of our lasts texts, I hope probably will change  to Yes  ???  please help us ?

I know who Maria is, I'll ask her to make herself known.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 02, 2011, 12:51:39 PM
See below received from Ms Cassidy to my request for information.

Dear Ms Penny

 

Statement from the Chair of Governors

 

Thank you for your recent email.  The Chair of Governors, Lawrie Grant, has issued the following statement on behalf of Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College regarding the possible sale of land at its Hibbert Lane campus, Marple.

 

“The current 1930s buildings at Hibbert Lane are very expensive, inefficient and inappropriate for education in the 21st century.  Their annual maintenance costs continue to escalate – money which should be invested in direct teaching for the benefit of the students.

 

Another factor is the announcement by the current government of a severe reduction in the funding of sixth form colleges.  In addition we have also seen a serious rise in VAT.

 

There is no doubt that the Marple campus of Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College is in need of urgent investment and we must sell the land at Hibbert Lane to afford this investment.  Who will buy the site and what use the planners will ultimately approve is up to them.

We can make no assumption as to who the ultimate purchaser will be.  No contracts have been signed and any decision is subject to the approval of the SMBC Planning Committee.  The College, being a public body, must always act in the best interests of our students and is duty bound to accept the highest offer without fear or favour.

 

We must also stress that there will be no impact on the excellent provision of outstanding education that we provide for our students and that it is strictly business as usual.”

 

Please also note that the College is an incorporated body and unlike a school is not funded by the local authority.

 

Should you have any further queries in this regard do please let me know.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Christina Cassidy

Principal
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 02, 2011, 12:56:56 PM
Interesting that they are having windows replaced today-waste of money if going to sell?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 02, 2011, 02:35:33 PM
Thanks Maria - that's a clear and useful statement from the college. It's not likely to set many minds at rest, but it may help to clarify the key issues.
Re your point about replacing windows, this issue is likely to drag on for years, and as long as the college is working in the buildings, routine maintenance will obviously have to continue.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 02, 2011, 02:53:27 PM
I know Dave, just frustrating that they seem to suggest will sign contracts in October yet waste money replacing windows in August.  Planning may take years but selling the site may not-that is my worry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 02, 2011, 07:12:29 PM
One can only hope that the glass has shattered due to all the objections that are hopefully being shouted at Ms Cassidy in the countless meetings she is having which makes her unavailable for comment !  Here's hoping  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 02, 2011, 07:58:24 PM
Is it me or does the line "Should you have any further queries in this regard do please let me know." seem slighty "stuck up"?

ALso, i've had a few ideas with regards to the marple in action campaign.
First, maybe a E-mail mailing list?
The idea behind this is that it might be easier to keep people informed with important news, insted of them having to check the forum everyday.
Leading on form this is the idea of a blog, which serves the same purpose of the mailing list. however, the blog would, in some cases, be more flexible, because it would enable users to comment on the "post" with there ideas and thoughts.
If you guys need help setting the mailing list up, or setting the blog up let me know :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on August 03, 2011, 08:54:57 AM
 
It may be helpful for someone from Marple in Action to contact the Dr Stephen Watkins, Director of Public Health at NHS Stockport. He would certainly be involved in discussing any planning application with the local authority, but would also want to assess any potential health risks to the local population of any new development, due to increased engine emissions, noise and light pollution, loss of sports facilities and greenspace etc. The main switchboard number of NHS Stockport is 426 9000.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 03, 2011, 01:33:22 PM
We have got some good press coverage in the Stockport Express and on the news boards so things are moving  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 03, 2011, 01:40:13 PM
... loss of sports facilities and greenspace etc.

It's tragic that in the very year the UK hosts the London Olympics, we could be seeing Marple's sporting facilities (gym, sports hall, swimming baths) razed to the ground.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 03, 2011, 06:44:04 PM
Well another busy day !   I have spoken to ASDA land buyers. and TESCO Head office but all deny intrest in the land which didn't surprise me but I think it surprised them that we knew something.    I have contacted Andrews Stunell office to ask him to attend our rally in the park and to ask him why he didn't attend the last one ?  but he is not as yet back from holiday !  I have also sent an invitation to Ms Cassidy, Mr Hubert and the governors  to invite them to our Rally in the park (information to follow soon  )  4 days ago but I have not had a response which is strange, I thought we got on really well when I met Ms Cassidy at out last meeting, just shows what a bad judge of People  I am Now what else ? Oh YES ! I am in the local  Stockport Express Advertiser at the area committee meeting !  WOW ! pity it's not better colour quality to let my blue rinse shine through  :P.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 03, 2011, 09:04:01 PM
Well another busy day !   I have spoken to ASDA land buyers. and TESCO Head office but all deny intrest in the land which didn't surprise me but I think it surprised them that we knew something.    I have contacted Andrews Stunell office to ask him to attend our rally in the park and to ask him why he didn't attend the last one ?  but he is not as yet back from holiday !  I have also sent an invitation to Ms Cassidy, Mr Hubert and the governors  to invite them to our Rally in the park (information to follow soon  )  4 days ago but I have not had a response which is strange, I thought we got on really well when I met Ms Cassidy at out last meeting, just shows what a bad judge of People  I am Now what else ? Oh YES ! I am in the local  Stockport Express Advertiser at the area committee meeting !  WOW ! pity it's not better colour quality to let my blue rinse shine through  :P.

Is this the article? http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1454010_supermarket-land-row-meeting-moved-to-park-after-room-proves-too-small-as-hundreds-attend
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: squirrel123 on August 04, 2011, 09:03:01 AM
Just wondered if anyone knows the identity of the people who have been removing the red protest posters? Someone came onto our proerty at about midnight last night and removed both of ours. Technically, I think this is trespass....I'd be very interested if anyone has their details or sees their registration number.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 04, 2011, 09:14:47 AM
It's a red car-that is all I know but it is trespass-ours was removed too late last night.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 04, 2011, 10:16:20 AM
It's a red car-that is all I know but it is trespass-ours was removed too late last night.

There was a commotion last night. Miss Marple, I think you have a story for the press there.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 04, 2011, 10:32:05 AM

Is this the article? http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1454010_supermarket-land-row-meeting-moved-to-park-after-room-proves-too-small-as-hundreds-attend


Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 04, 2011, 02:34:49 PM

Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
[/quote]
Shark sandwich's? now i'm confused...
Anway, back on topic
I'm getting a sense of foul play with regards to a dissapearing signs, as its seems like it could be more than coincidence that more than 1 sign has been taken down, and in more than one location.
If you don't mind me asking, what area(s) have the signs been removed from?
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 04, 2011, 02:57:29 PM

Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
Shark sandwich's? now i'm confused...
Anway, back on topic
I'm getting a sense of foul play with regards to a dissapearing signs, as its seems like it could be more than coincidence that more than 1 sign has been taken down, and in more than one location.
If you don't mind me asking, what area(s) have the signs been removed from?
 
[/quote]

Maria Lives on Hibbert Lane, I noticed a house on the cescent of houses that had a dedicated pole for their sign that was signless but didn't give it much notice.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 04, 2011, 03:34:06 PM

Shark Sandwich's comments are good.
Shark sandwich's? now i'm confused...
Anway, back on topic
I'm getting a sense of foul play with regards to a dissapearing signs, as its seems like it could be more than coincidence that more than 1 sign has been taken down, and in more than one location.
If you don't mind me asking, what area(s) have the signs been
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on August 04, 2011, 03:43:57 PM
Just wondered if anyone knows the identity of the people who have been removing the red protest posters? Someone came onto our proerty at about midnight last night and removed both of ours. Technically, I think this is trespass....I'd be very interested if anyone has their details or sees their registration number.

It is trespass... It is also theft. Hopefully, they (whoever "they" are) won't win and the residents of Marple won't be too scared to put posters on their property. For every one that gets taken down, we should put up ten! Any property that is near enough to the road could put them inside their windows too. The shops have now got them inside. They won't get them all!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 04, 2011, 04:06:00 PM
Just wondered if anyone knows the identity of the people who have been removing the red protest posters? Someone came onto our proerty at about midnight last night and removed both of ours. Technically, I think this is trespass....I'd be very interested if anyone has their details or sees their registration number.

It is trespass... It is also theft. Hopefully, they (whoever "they" are) won't win and the residents of Marple won't be too scared to put posters on their property. For every one that gets taken down, we should put up ten! Any property that is near enough to the road could put them inside their windows too. The shops have now got them inside. They won't get them all!
I aggree that we should print more and mroe posters etc, however, i think we need to clearly mark on the posters etc that "this poster is property of Marple-in-action. any party who steals this poster will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law." We should also moniter each poster that is easily accesible by anyone, maybe set up a camera so that we can catch however is trying to steal these as a last resort in hopes of stopping us stopping CAMSFC selling the site.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: squirrel123 on August 04, 2011, 04:35:31 PM
I have reported the 'theft' of our posters to the police and the press are interested too. The college have denied any responsibility for employing someone to take them down. Apparently, 2 men in a red car have been seen removing them from people's houses. If anyone can get the registration number of the car concerned, out Community Police Officers would like to have it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 04, 2011, 04:39:39 PM
I have reported the 'theft' of our posters to the police and the press are interested too. The college have denied any responsibility for employing someone to take them down. Apparently, 2 men in a red car have been seen removing them from people's houses. If anyone can get the registration number of the car concerned, out Community Police Officers would like to have it.

Execellent news!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 04, 2011, 07:31:33 PM
That's great news !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 05, 2011, 09:00:52 AM
I was speaking to the press yesterday and they were speaking about a couple of cases they had reported on where the supermarkets had won even after years of local opposition.   BUT ! In those cases the community did not become aware until after it had gone to planning.  So this is where we are different, we did get to know before it went to planning and was able to start our campaign early this is where we stand a better chance  according to people who have followed other super markets v communities.   If it had been left to {*the college} the first we would have known about it was when someone noticed an A4 piece of paper stuck to a lamppost informing us that plans could be seen in the library.

*This post has been edited with the agreement of the originator. Admin

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 05, 2011, 11:06:48 AM
I think these personal attacks on Ms Cassidy should stop.

She has a duty to get the best possible price for the land she needs to sell in order to provide better facilities for our young people.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 05, 2011, 11:20:20 AM
She does have a duty to the students but I do not believe it should simply go to the highest bidder-what is needed is fine but not selling off to the highest bidder at the expense of the surrounding area and the people who live on the doorstep.  I maintain it can be sold in a way that doesn't anger the community but still ensures the Buxton lane campus can be developed-I think if they would meet the general public rather than it all being cloak and dagger it would put a lot of rumour to rest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 05, 2011, 12:49:21 PM
I think these personal attacks on Ms Cassidy should stop.

She has a duty to get the best possible price for the land she needs to sell in order to provide better facilities for our young people.



+1
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 05, 2011, 12:55:42 PM
Tears?  Really?  

I agree its no use the personal attacks.. you will alienate alot of potential supporters.  Shes been doing her job and is now playing catch up.  I think  that an attempt at a compromise needs to be made.  

They HAVE to sell it, they need to provide better facilities... in theory the more money the better however i think the college needs to consider the community and maybe getting the community involved in the decision making process.. and possibly losing out on a bit of money but having the community behind them would be a better solution.

Surely its in the colleges interest to get the local community behind them at this stage and maybe we should be approaching them for conciliatory meetings? If they decide they want to do it behind closed doors then yep go for them but as a whole not individually.
 
BUT we need ideas.. we know what we dont want.. but what will we accept that maximises their profit and how can we get some other bidder involved??
Miss marple.. i cant really blame her for not wanting to meet you... even I might be frightened considering the rhetoric on here..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 05, 2011, 01:02:56 PM
Well at least it's keeping the momentum so I am happy with that   ;D. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 05, 2011, 01:04:59 PM
I wounder weither we could conveince the college to split the site into 2 halfs? by spliting the site up we effectivley kill 2 birds with one stone, because there limiting the size of the supermarket that could be built, and were still allowing the college to site the site. Although we'd have to make sure that we had a buyer lined up for one half of the site.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 05, 2011, 01:20:06 PM
I'm in agreement about the personal comments and Miss M and I have discussed her post in question. She did agree that I could delete it but instead I have just removed the personal items that several of you have referred to. I didn't wish to remove it altogether because it has some very valid points in it, not least that the college would have preferred to keep things quiet until they had a done deal.

The suggestion made to me that the principal and college cannot answer back though is not correct. A representative of the college is perfectly at liberty to register with the forum and respond to the many criticisms that have been directed at the way they have behaved over this matter so far and how they have disregarded any responsibility to the community that they are part of.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on August 05, 2011, 01:31:19 PM
"She has a duty to get the best possible price for the land she needs to sell in order to provide better facilities for our young people."

Doesn't better facilities include a better environment to live in outside the college? Less traffic pollution, an environment with decent community spirit, an infrastruture of small businesses to provide employment, and a town where the college is seen as a values and trusted neighbour, not a trojan horse?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: squirrel123 on August 05, 2011, 01:36:21 PM
Does anyone know what difference it makes if the college is a Charitable Trust (which I think it is but am trying to confirm this)? I think it might be a responsibility not to go for the highest bidder but to take more account of ethical and community concerns....but I am prepared to be wrong on this! It'd might be helpful to know if anyone has a clear understanding of what Charitable Trust status is.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 05, 2011, 01:45:01 PM
Mark.. I agree... however in order to go forward with what WE want we need to "forgive and forget" to a degree! and try and move forward with them.  At mo(completely different to the deliberate failure to inform!)  i expect keeping quiet is a panic situation .. its the holidays.. they re not quite sure which way to move... or which way public opinion will go.. they're probably waiting for legal advice..maybe even advice from the bidders!

They ARE going to sell it.. we don't want them to sell it to current bidders... so lets work with them to stop them doing exactly that! Harassing  them constantly isn't going to work as they will just hide!  I'm not saying we should stop raising awareness of the issues within our community at the same time just lets explore other avenues and keep it as positive pressure not abuse.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpudlian on August 05, 2011, 03:26:09 PM
I wounder weither we could conveince the college to split the site into 2 halfs? by spliting the site up we effectivley kill 2 birds with one stone, because there limiting the size of the supermarket that could be built, and were still allowing the college to site the site. Although we'd have to make sure that we had a buyer lined up for one half of the site.



An excellent idea!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 05, 2011, 05:26:21 PM
I think that some people think that they will not have problems due to not living on Hibbert Lane but I have just been informed from a very reliable source today that the college are planning to massively re develop and rebuild The Buxton Lane college with several high story buildings which if I lived on Cross lane , Buxton Lane or any of the houses around and about I would be mighty worried about being over looked, no parking, noise and traffic.

So if I am emotional or overly concerned so should we all !!  because as I have said time and time again on this site !  We can all be arm chair socialists but we all really  need now to wake up and smell the coffee.!!!
  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 05, 2011, 05:39:00 PM
I think that some people think that they will not have problems due to not living on Hibbert Lane but I have just been informed from a very reliable source today that the college are planning to massively re deveop and  rebuild The Buxton Lane college with several high story buildings which if I lived on Cross lane , Buxton Lane or any of the houses around and about I would be mighty worried about being over looked, no parking, noise and traffic    

Neil has submitted a FOI to the college concerning covenants at each campus (not just Hibbert Lane), see details of the FOI here (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg#comment-19936).

Maria submitted a FOI to Stockport Council concerning costs of developing the Buxton Campus (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_cost_of_devloping_buxton_lan#incoming-198540) (which I am sure should not be subject to any commercial confidentiality issues, as it's about the College spending its own money on its own property).  The council have bounced it though, saying it's the College who know such info, so I'll speak to Maria about resubmitting it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 05, 2011, 05:42:45 PM
I think that some people think that they will not have problems due to not living on Hibbert Lane but I have just been informed from a very reliable source today that the college are planning to massively re develop and rebuild The Buxton Lane college with several high story buildings which if I lived on Cross lane , Buxton Lane or any of the houses around and about I would be mighty worried about being over looked, no parking, noise and traffic.

So if I am emotional or overly concerned so should we all !!  because as I have said time and time again on this site !  We can all be arm chair socialists but we all really  need now to wake up and smell the coffee.!!!
  
Tick Tock,Tick Tock!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 05, 2011, 06:59:39 PM
The college have disregarded selling to separate bodies as not viable-the supermarket want the land as they need a bigger store so would not agree to purchase only part.  They have advised that no money will pass hands until planning permission is granted-the planning is the key issue we should all be concerned with.  If planning is rejected, whether initially or otherwise, the sale will not go ahead and they then have to look at other options.  They also need planning for Buxton lane if they are to achieve what they wish.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 12:05:19 AM
 MARPLE IN ACTION  undertaking surveys and petitions re the proposed supermarket will be on Market St  from 10am - 4pm     The press will also be on Market Street tomorrow at 10-30 around The Iceland area.   Please come along it will be great to meet all the people who have offered their support.   I think I may have to request the services of Max Clifford at this rate
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on August 06, 2011, 10:37:34 AM
I was blissfully unaware of this furore until an outbreak of  flyposting in Marple last weekend  and, as a result, I was unfortunately among the 23,500 Marple residents who did not attend the Area Committee meeting on 26th July. I have spent some time reading the posts in the hope  of establishing the facts but they seem rather difficult to find. At the moment they seem to consist of the fact that CAMSAC are considering the sale of land. Other than that there is much speculation and guesswork amounting to a protest against we know not whom in respect of their proposals for we know not what.
The particular targets seem to be supermarkets in general and that bete noire of the chattering classes, Tesco, in particular.
It would be interesting to know what proportion of the household expenditure of Marple people is actually spent in Marple. I suspect that it is a small fraction, the reason being that there isn’t a decent supermarket in the town and people prefer to travel to Hazel Grove, Poynton, Stockport, Romiley, or Glossop, depending on their preferred supplier, most of which are better served. As far as shopping mileage is concerned the impact of a new supermarket in Marple would be to reduce mine by 500 miles p.a.  There only needs to be 1000 other Marple residents in the same situation, and there would be a reduction of half a million miles.
While the prospect of a supermarket is at present unpalatable to some, including, no doubt, some who do not have a vested interest, this might well change as the decline in our standard of living gathers pace and private transport becomes more of a luxury than it is now. It is not unrealistic to envisage circumstances where any community of our size would be grateful to have within its boundaries a means of meeting its needs and ,while it appears that our elected representatives will for now prevent such a development, this is a democracy and they would no doubt bend with the wind. Let’s hope that when times get really bad Aldi, Lidl, or Netto will be prepared to come to the rescue.
Comparisons have been made between the potential site on Hibbert Lane and Tesco’s Portwood store but it seems ridiculous to suggest that they would consider a “superstore” in a suburb (aka”village”) of this size. They would be far more likely to build a more modest store and retain the ability to extend it if, and when, its value to local people has been established .Reference has been made to the rather industrial architecture of Tesco Glossop and Whalley Bridge. Again that is unthinkable and I am sure that any supermarket that might win the day would adopt a faux rural design to please the villagers.
While on the subject of Tesco, we should bear in mind that, over the past 30 years, they have been one of the most successful of British companies and most of the people in this country will have benefited from their enterprise in some way. They have been a  significant constituent of most pension funds and one of the few consistent contributors to those funds. They employ almost half a million people. They contribute a proportion of their pre tax profit to charity. Their innovations in marketing and technology have been of great benefit to consumers. They made the first online shopping transaction in the world in 1984. The introduction of Tesco own brand products covering three quality ranges and several product categories, together with its intense competition with other supermarket chains has had a helpfull impact on the CPI and their overseas operations result in a significant contribution to our balance of payment.
With regard to the recent posts regarding the posting of notices. All the ones that I saw were flyposting which, without a permit, is illegal under the Highways Act 1980, the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, the Anti–social Behaviour Act 2003 and the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005. Marple-in-Action are ill advised to associate the name with them, something which would no doubt be confirmed by any Community Support Officer.
Finally there is much sound debate and common sense displayed in the posts on this thread but, sprinkled among it there is some pure nastiness from those determined to display their ignorance and obsession. With friends like them Marple-in-Action cannot afford too many enemies
Just for the record, I have no connection with the college, with Tesco, or with any other supermarket and my car is blue, not red!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 06, 2011, 11:07:38 AM
You make some interesting points, Alstan. I know from talking to local people that quite a few people are in favour of a supermarket because they either already go to a tesco/asda etc. out of marple, they don't like the Co-op (usually quote it being expensive or a stranglehold) or think the jobs would be good for marple. Anyone against usually mention either traffic or the effect on local shops. It gets confusing, though, when some people say they don't mind a supermarket in the village centre (surely that will also take away from local shops).

One thing that stands out to me from the articles recently posted is that if a supermarket build a large store, they are depending on many thousands of peole going there and drawn from nearby areas. This would be my main concern. Even if people who normally drive out of the area to tesco/etc now stay in marple. would that be outweighed by people in neighbouring areas coming?

I also am not sure how the Buxton lane campus can be made to hold the entire population of the college. Is the grass area between peacefield school and the college belonging to the college? Presumably it would have to be a large high rise building.

It seems certain to me that the college will sell it to a supermarket and thats why they are selling Hibbert lane and not Buxton lane. I don't think the Co-op is going far enough with their offer of half of hanburys. People seem to want better prices than what the Co-op can offer. They should look at that asap as it could have more effect.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 06, 2011, 11:10:16 AM
Taken from the email posted a few pages earlier;
'Who will buy the site and what use the planners will ultimately approve is up to them.

We can make no assumption as to who the ultimate purchaser will be.  No contracts have been signed and any decision is subject to the approval of the SMBC Planning Committee.  The College, being a public body, must always act in the best interests of our students and is duty bound to accept the highest offer without fear or favour.'

Seems cut and dry to me that they have already made their minds up to take the offer from the highest bidder to do what they like with the land.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 06, 2011, 02:58:56 PM
Thank you, alstan and JMC, for contributing two of the most rational posts on this thread. Personally I have an open mind on this issue: I can understand the college's position, in seeking to improve the facilities for its students (aka our kids and grandkids), but I can also understand the opposition of those who live near the Hibbert Lane site.
However, one thing is clear: the way forward is through reasoned argument, and not through the personal vilification and near-hysteria of some posts on this thread :-(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 04:13:33 PM
Hi Alstan I am one of the founders of MIA and I take full responsibility for the fly posting   The police can easily contact me via the hot line which  would probably give us more publicity. 
 MARPLE IN ACTION have always encouraged people if they so wish to start their own group in favour of the proposed supermarket.  Please feel free to contact me via the hot line, the staff will take your details and I will return your call.    I will be happy to inform you personally about the meetings I have had with interested parties re this matter and that will give you information to make a decision based on an informed choice.  MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on August 06, 2011, 04:28:13 PM
Thank you, alstan and JMC, for contributing two of the most rational posts on this thread. Personally I have an open mind on this issue: I can understand the college's position, in seeking to improve the facilities for its students (aka our kids and grandkids), but I can also understand the opposition of those who live near the Hibbert Lane site.
However, one thing is clear: the way forward is through reasoned argument, and not through the personal vilification and near-hysteria of some posts on this thread :-(

I completely agree :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 04:39:51 PM
We could never in our wildest dreams imagined the amount of support given by local people today at out outside petition stall.   Not only had we gained well over a 1,000 signatures, I left at 3pm and people were still lining up to sign, we have had offers of help from legal people, a barrister,  manufactures, media and more importantly THE COMMUNITY !!   The local paper was there and we have a fantastic photo which will be hitting the papers next week all in all it was a fantastic day.   If anyone wants to volunteer to man the stall next sat please contact the Action Line or  send a personal email to myself or Admin because even with 10 people manning the stall we were struggling to attend to the crowds,  we will be out and about for the next three Saturdays and just to let you know that something BIG !! is happening on Sat 20Th Aug , so all of you who have left details will be contacted .   TEAM MARPLE !!!    WHAT A TEAM !!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 05:20:23 PM
Hi Alstan I am one of the founders of MIA and I take full responsibility for the fly posting   The police can easily contact me via the hot line which  would probably give us more publicity.  
 MARPLE IN ACTION have always encouraged people if they so wish to start their own group in favour of the proposed supermarket.  Please feel free to contact me via the hot line, the staff will take your details and I will return your call.    I will be happy to inform you personally about the meetings I have had with interested parties re this matter and that will give you information to make a decision based on an informed choice.  MM
.
We will be meeting with our MP next week so more information will be provided
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 06, 2011, 06:17:41 PM
Alstan we have now been informed again via a very reliable source from inside the college that its ASDA a very American company.   I did in fact get through to their land buyers and land surveyors on Thursday.  I don't know who was more surprised me or them.  I asked them to confirm or deny that they are purchasing or have an interest in the site and the official stated that it was too early At this stage to pass comment ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: cheryl67lib on August 06, 2011, 07:54:29 PM
I have also heard this about the swimming pool, which is old and very much in need of updating...but putting in a roundabout is just plain stupid. As for the post about libraries, we provide a valuble service to the public, not everyone can afford to buy books/dvds or has access to the internet. Also speaking as a library assistant (not Marple) ie those of us who run this service, we are fairly poorly paid for what we do and some of us have been replaced with self service points in recent months  :( >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 06, 2011, 10:27:22 PM
Some good points raised there by alstan but I'd like to comment on a couple of them.

...Comparisons have been made between the potential site on Hibbert Lane and Tesco’s Portwood store but it seems ridiculous to suggest that they would consider a “superstore” in a suburb (aka”village”) of this size. They would be far more likely to build a more modest store and retain the ability to extend it if, and when, its value to local people has been established .Reference has been made to the rather industrial architecture of Tesco Glossop and Whalley Bridge. Again that is unthinkable and I am sure that any supermarket that might win the day would adopt a faux rural design to please the villagers.

Many on the forum have no experience on what type of superstore would be considered viable, or what design would be adopted.  I'm not entirely sure that a "faux rural" design would necessarily please Marple folk though.  But regarding whether ridiculous to suggest it being a superstore, we do know that the overall site footprints of Hibbert Lane and Portwood are comparable.

Quote
While on the subject of Tesco, we should bear in mind that, over the past 30 years, they have been one of the most successful of British companies and most of the people in this country will have benefited from their enterprise in some way. They have been a  significant constituent of most pension funds and one of the few consistent contributors to those funds. They employ almost half a million people. They contribute a proportion of their pre tax profit to charity.

While some corporate philanthropy is certainly a good thing, do remember that they stand accused by the Guardian of failing to pay £1 billion of corporation tax (http://web.archive.org/web/20080401162801/http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/27/tesco.supermarkets1) by weaving a complex web of offshore holding/parent companies and complex loan arrangements.  Daresay that a fair portion of that money would have gone to colleges such as CAMSFC !  And on the employment issue, there are many independent studies (http://www.newrules.org/retail/key-studies-walmart-and-bigbox-retail#2) which suggest these "big box" supermarkets actually reduce employment numbers.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on August 07, 2011, 01:25:51 PM
Thank you JMC, Dave, Pink Panther and sgq for you comments. I don’t think the opening of a supermarket in Marple will have a huge impact on existing food retailers as the bulk of Marple’s food is already purchased outside the area and those who support the specialist local retailers, be it because they wish to support local shops, or pay a premium for personal service, or seek a quality or products not usually available elsewhere, are almost certain to continue to do so. The more specialist retailers might be more vulnerable when, and if, the supermarket moved into non food product ranges.
 Having said that, Altricham has a Tesco a similar distance from the town centre; it opened some years ago but has just reopened following expansion. Despite its proximity to the town, or, perhaps, because of it, Altrincham town centre appears to prosper.
As far as the Hanbury’s site is concerned I had assumed that the reason the Co-op bought it was to reduce the risk of a Sainsbury Local or Tesco Express opening in Marple.
With regard to the potential size of any development, Handforth Dean and Portwood, the site with which Hibbert Lane is often compared, are Tesco Extras. The term “supermarket” seems to be no longer used by Tesco and their outlets at Glossop and Whaley Bridge are “Tesco Superstores”. I don’t think there is any chance of a store the size of an “Extra” being even contemplated in Marple, whatever the size of the site. It would be commercially insane and would fail the planning requirements on several grounds. I suspect that, exactly as happened in Glossop and Whaley Bridge, a modest superstore would come first with limited expansion when, and if, the need became clear. OK the faux rural architecture adopted by supermarkets is a bit twee but is still preferable to the slabs at Glossop and Whaley Bridge
I completely agree with sgks that the non payment of corporation tax is wrong. I assume, however, that what Tesco has done is completely lawful and is for the benefit of shareholders (including our pension funds). In that case the fault lies not with Tesco but with the law which should be changed.
I have followed the link to “many independent studies” and would make two comments.
Firstly, all the research quoted relates to the USA and Wal-Mart in particular. Different considerations may arise in this country and I wonder if you are aware of any similar research in the UK?
Secondly I cannot see that in any case is the source of funding stated and am not, therefore, clear as to why it is necessarily independent research.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 07, 2011, 02:15:38 PM
There have been two lots of bids

Tesco came first  ASDA second in the first bid
ASDA came first  Tesco second  in a second bid

Now I don't profess to be knowledgeable in this kind of thing and our insiders in the college believe it or not is worse than me, hard to believe I know  :-\.  But to me a lay person in things concerning any type of Business  dealings, I think it means that Tesco came first on the bid because it had planning ? But Asda came first on the second round because the second round was without planning ?
Please do not shoot the messenger, as you can imagine we are asking a lot from people to drip feed us information from inside the college and their jobs are at risk so information just comes out in bits and bobs and the people providing the information can not and are not expected to understand some of the information the provide us  Maybe someone out there understands the two bid system and can explain this new piece of information  ???  
Well at least I was able to pass this information on to ASDA first hand  on Thursday when I spoke to their head office.  :D

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: RWW on August 08, 2011, 06:29:24 PM
My brother witnessed windows being replaced at the Hibbert Lane campus today. Expensive looking job apparently.
Doesn't sound like pre-demolition work
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 08, 2011, 06:35:45 PM
The leaflet that went out with the Civic Review is informing the community who do not have use of the Internet.  The Action Line has had 25 calls in 3 hrs mainly from residents who had heard a rumour but nothing else.  The leaflet that explains the current situation is now getting a response, people who have taken calls today on the Action Line from concerned residents have, as well as giving up to date information, have informed  the callers  about the Protest March on 20th August at 2pm.   

PLEASE INFORM AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN BECAUSE WE WILL BE JUDGED BY THE ATTENDANCE

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 11:59:20 AM
MARPLE IN ACTION are having a meeting this afternoon with Andrew Stunnall MP.  The outcome of that meeting will be posted later today on the Forum.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 09, 2011, 06:00:05 PM
I have received a letter in response to my own from Andrew Stunnell-he has set up his own campaign - Get the College to Think Again - and has suggests we all join his campaign-I have a form to complete and return to him but will imagine he has an online petition on his web page.  Not had the chance to check yet but will do so-at least he is supporting our opposition to a large supermarket!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 09, 2011, 06:47:46 PM
I have received a letter in response to my own from Andrew Stunnell-he has set up his own campaign - Get the College to Think Again - and has suggests we all join his campaign-I have a form to complete and return to him but will imagine he has an online petition on his web page.  Not had the chance to check yet but will do so-at least he is supporting our opposition to a large supermarket!
Thats both good and bad news,
Good news is that he is supporting us, bad news is that he wants us all to jump on his band wagon, which, lets face it, is going to polictically motivated. If he wants to get involved then great! but he should join MAR, not the other way round!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 08:03:33 PM
The MIA Action Line has been busy today and it appears that lots of residents are organising their own  residents meetings and using it to inform neighbours who do not have Internet use, of all the up to date information and of  the rally on 20th Aug at 2 pm starting in the precinct.   The  press will be there once again to cover the event and we are trying to get the local TV news interested, so do come along, and show all that need to know that MARPLE SAYS NO TO A SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE!  Also don't forget MIA are out and about again every Sat in Aug collecting signatures to add to the Hundreds we already  have.   The messages and offers  of Support have been fantastic but we have a long way to go. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 08:12:43 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA secretary  will put them on the forum. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 09, 2011, 08:15:10 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA secretary  will put them on the forum. 
           all ready on the forum .from Marple civic society .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 09, 2011, 08:24:29 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA Secretary will put them on the forum.  
         all ready on the forum .from Marple civic society .
Hi Amazon this was a different meeting, there have been three different meetings today. MBF and the Civic Society are all members of MIA and we are all working and attending meetings on different things and then we share information at a larger meeting.  There are lots of things going on that requires different people to attend different things but we are working well as a team and by working together we are stronger MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 09, 2011, 08:45:46 PM
I have received a letter in response to my own from Andrew Stunnell-he has set up his own campaign - Get the College to Think Again - and has suggests we all join his campaign-I have a form to complete and return to him but will imagine he has an online petition on his web page.  Not had the chance to check yet but will do so-at least he is supporting our opposition to a large supermarket!

Here's a copy of the letter from Andrew Stunell received by people who have written to him.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on August 09, 2011, 08:50:57 PM
blimey, Andrew Stunnell's quick off the mark on this one, took him 3 months to reply to my letter to him about university tuition fees.  Does he feel the need to try to curry favour with local voters before the next election?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 10, 2011, 12:53:34 PM
MARPLE IN ACTION have now organised Into teams

Legal team
Lobbyist team
Tec team
Communication team
Research team
Data team
Leaftet distribution team
Fund raising team
Market research team

We have groups of people working in all these teams but are still looking for anyone who thinks they can help in any of these areas.  Each team has a nominated team leader so please if you can help in anyway
contact the action line, admin, or the MARPLE In ACTION web site and you will be put in touch with the team you feel you could assist.   OCT IS FAST APPROCHING WE NEED TO ACT NOW !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Robert on August 10, 2011, 01:32:57 PM
We had our arranged meeting with Andrew Stunnell and it went well, he has pledged his support which will run alongside MARPLE IN ACTION     The mins of the meeting are being typed and when they are ready Belle MIA secretary  will put them on the forum. 
           all ready on the forum .from Marple civic society .

Can anyone link me to these minutes? And are minutes available for the other meetings?
Thanks
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 10, 2011, 05:58:40 PM
MARPLE IN ACTION has just obtained the deeds for  MARPLE Swimming Baths which we will post on the web site.  The baths were a gift to the people of MARPLE and given mainly for the use of our children by Mrs Macnair !   Thank you Mrs Macnair  ;D

The link (Admin) http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/marple_swimming_baths#incoming-200957
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2011, 08:26:26 AM
So our MP is trying to 'Get the College to Think Again'. Unless he knows another way for the college to raise the capital it needs, that means he is campaigning against improving the educational facilities of his constituents, which is an astonishing thing for an MP to do!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on August 13, 2011, 10:37:40 AM

I agree Dave. Shows what the priority of the Lib Dems is when it comes to a choice between education and jumping on a band waggon which might produce a few smiley photo opportunities. Why doesn't he wait for the public consultation on any plans that are actually put forward like most Marple people
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 13, 2011, 05:24:31 PM
What another fantastic day we have had today collecting signatures.   We have gained over a thousand again today and that's not counting the ones in the shops or the ones being collected door to door.  The opposition to this ridicules proposal is huge and growing as more and more people gather information, which they have been doing independently now by speaking to collage staff who are now openly saying what they had been told by CAMSFC.   Lots of interest in the March next week with people from surrounding areas phoning for information.   We also think that we may have a lead on the red car that has been used by the two people taking down the posters as a resident was able to get the car registration number and reported it to the police.   
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU TO THE  RESIDENTS OF MARPLE WHO CAME OUT TO SIGN TODAY YOU DID MARPLE PROUD.
          NEXT SATURDAYS MARCH WILL BE THE DAY WHEN THE COLLAGE AND ALL OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES SEE THAT A SUPERMARKET ON THE HIBBERT LANE SITE IS NOT WANTED AND NOT HAPPENING
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 13, 2011, 09:45:56 PM
MARPLE IN ACTION have now organised Into teams

Legal team
Lobbyist team
Tec team
Communication team
Research team
Data team
Leaftet distribution team
Fund raising team
Market research team

We have groups of people working in all these teams but are still looking for anyone who thinks they can help in any of these areas.  Each team has a nominated team leader so please if you can help in anyway
contact the action line, admin, or the MARPLE In ACTION web site and you will be put in touch with the team you feel you could assist.   OCT IS FAST APPROCHING WE NEED TO ACT NOW !


Finally! Sorry if it seems like i'm trying to be rude here, but the way things were going before The MAR was organised into teams i was becoming concerned.
Also, Have any of the things MAR has put in place been suggested by other people? So for example did someone suggest the team idea? If so I feel that it would only be right to have a seperate post that is sticked that mention the forum name of however suggested the ideas, so as to give them credit, and to let the general public know that you are listening to them and taking there ideas onboard, and not just throwing them into the bin :/
For example, I suggested ideas that are very similar to what has been implemented so far on this thread : http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3663.0 including the march AND the banner.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 13, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
Apologises for the double post, but further to the teams, I would add a Central command team, which all the "team leaders" are part of, along with the Senior management. This team would call the shots, and be responsible for assigning tasks to each "team". the leader of the "team" would then take the task which his/her team had been assigned, then split it up into sub tasks if it was a large scale tasking, or multistage (so for example, if CCOM-D wanted 500 leaflets printing, they would task the publication team with making the leaflets. The publication team leader would receive this order, he/she would then assign each team member with a specific number of leaflets to be printed. he/she would also lease with CCOM and the distribution team as to when the batch of leaflets would be ready, and were they would be delivered to when ready for distribution)
If you wish for me to explain further please feel free to shoot me a PM :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 13, 2011, 10:33:06 PM
What another fantastic day we have had today collecting signatures.   We have gained over a thousand again today and that's not counting the ones in the shops or the ones being collected door to door.  The opposition to this ridicules proposal is huge and growing as more and more people gather information, which they have been doing independently now by speaking to collage staff who are now openly saying what they had been told by CAMSFC.   Lots of interest in the March next week with people from surrounding areas phoning for information.   We also think that we may have a lead on the red car that has been used by the two people taking down the posters as a resident was able to get the car registration number and reported it to the police.    
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU TO THE  RESIDENTS OF MARPLE WHO CAME OUT TO SIGN TODAY YOU DID MARPLE PROUD.
          NEXT SATURDAYS MARCH WILL BE THE DAY WHEN THE COLLAGE AND ALL OTHER INTERESTED







PARTIES SEE THAT A SUPERMARKET ON THE HIBBERT LANE SITE IS NOT WANTED AND NOT HAPPENING


Forgot to say that T shirts are now on sale at £5.00 each. All profit to go MIA fund raising campaign
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 14, 2011, 12:01:10 AM
Forgot to say that T shirts are now on sale at £5.00 each. All profit to go MIA fund raising campaign
Can I suggest a change on the T-shirt design? insted of having the logo on the front i'd move it to the back, and have a small logo on the left breast at the front.
Also, i'd make a seperate design for MAR personnel, which has the logo on the back, along with "STAFF", and there name on the left breast.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 14, 2011, 12:26:14 AM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on August 14, 2011, 05:15:41 AM
The MIA campaign is amazing! The sheer number of people and the organisation involved is a testimony to the strength of our community here in Marple. I for one would like to say a huge big THANKYOU to everyone who is committing so much of their time and energy to saving our community. A job being brilliantly done!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 14, 2011, 12:11:16 PM
Thanks for that Moonforest.It's great the public support that's being shown.We are all in it together!Must go now to do some printing under the guidance of the team leader ::)they show us how to press print on the copier.  ::) I will show my work to the team leaders leader who may have to run it past the quality control leader ;)Then finally on to the central command team,hope I can find him/her,they may not be wearing easy recognisable clothing!Oh well!! perhaps I will make a non executive decision,by- pass the lot of them,and take them to our cars for delivery. ;D Hope I am not treading on any ones toes :P.Must dash,busy,busy.Hope to see lots at the March on Saturday.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 14, 2011, 02:55:18 PM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Its a suggestion! Its there to be thought about, and considered by MIA, not thrown in the bin!!
Please, I understand that the people in MIA are volunteers, but you do have a pecking order (team members, team leaders).
The reason why i suggested that people be given credit for there ideas is that it would show the community that MIA are listening to there ideas, not simply taking them for there own.

I ask that you do not to mock me, or make fun of my suggestions, as that A. gets nowere B. results in the battle being lost and C. is damn well out of order. D. If you act like this for every idea thats suggested sooner or later people are going to stop suggesting them, and as i'm quite sure that you are aware, A campagin without ideas is like a boat out of water, it just doesn't work.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 14, 2011, 03:28:29 PM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Its a suggestion! Its there to be thought about, and considered by MIA, not thrown in the bin!!
Please, I understand that the people in MIA are volunteers, but you do have a pecking order (team members, team leaders).
The reason why i suggested that people be given credit for there ideas is that it would show the community that MIA are listening to there ideas, not simply taking them for there own.

I ask that you do not to mock me, or make fun of my suggestions, as that A. gets nowere B. results in the battle being lost and C. is damn well out of order. D. If you act like this for every idea thats suggested sooner or later people are going to stop suggesting them, and as I'm quite sure that you are aware, A campagin with ideas is like a boat out of water, it just doesn't work.

To clarify for you Smithy, the group were already pursuing the suggestions that you made (t-shirts aside) some time ago before you made them. Perhaps it would have been more polite to say thanks, but we've already thought of that. However, nobody did, me included, so please accept my apologies for that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 14, 2011, 03:34:56 PM
I really do not get your posts Smithy 166.MIA is running like a well oiled machine.All the teams know what they are doing.We don't need credit for suggestions.We are getting on with the job in hand.Why would we want to change the t'shirt logos?we are not making any fashion statements!They are already printed.We are not staff as such, we are volunteers with no pecking order.We are not in it for the glory.We have one aim.To save our local business,To prevent any more traffic congestion,The devaluation of property values, the disruption to the supermarkets neighbours and the preservation of our town centre.!!
Its a suggestion! Its there to be thought about, and considered by MIA, not thrown in the bin!!
Please, I understand that the people in MIA are volunteers, but you do have a pecking order (team members, team leaders).
The reason why i suggested that people be given credit for there ideas is that it would show the community that MIA are listening to there ideas, not simply taking them for there own.

I ask that you do not to mock me, or make fun of my suggestions, as that A. gets nowere B. results in the battle being lost and C. is damn well out of order. D. If you act like this for every idea thats suggested sooner or later people are going to stop suggesting them, and as I'm quite sure that you are aware, A campagin with ideas is like a boat out of water, it just doesn't work.

To clarify for you Smithy, the group were already pursuing the suggestions that you made (t-shirts aside) some time ago before you made them. Perhaps it would have been more polite to say thanks, but we've already thought of that. However, nobody did, me included, so please accept my apologies for that.
Thankyou for that admin, I must apologise for my "grumpyness" aswell.
Now that thats out of the way, We have a total of 32  RSVP'd to attend the march event on facebook, and a further 18 as maybes. There are also 222 people awaiting a reply. not sure if those numbers are any use to anyone, but they do show that this march could potentually have more than 300 people participating, which, as i'm sure you will all aggree, is a huge number!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 14, 2011, 04:26:21 PM
Smithy you are doing a really good job and your ideas are of course looked at.  I have always maintained that MIA is not about a small group of people its about everyone.  You will see as this campaign develops that more and more people will be asked to participate, which I hope you will agree to be one of them.  It is such early days and we know that this is just the start.  It's fantastic that you are inviting people to the March thank you !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: equinox on August 15, 2011, 10:11:28 AM
Duplicate post overwritten. Please post messages only once. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on August 15, 2011, 03:00:37 PM
I would be amazed if there are only 300. Where are the other 23,000?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 15, 2011, 03:17:19 PM
Thats just from one organised group !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 15, 2011, 08:31:47 PM
MARPLE in Action is not affiliated to any political party   MIA was formed as a voice for our community  Whilst I am pleased that our elected members have decided to back the campaign to  get the college to re think    MIA Remains independent and will continue in the attempt to stop this ridiculus proposal by the college
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 16, 2011, 03:03:26 PM
Latest FOI Response:

Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 16, 2011, 05:51:46 PM
Miss Marple you've learned to cut and paste  ;D

Shame about the censorship (perhaps Neil can ask for a review of his FOI) but there is an interesting reference to Chadwick Street - presumably as a viable alternative supermarket site? I'm only guessing but the council seem to be saying that would be more "deliverable" than one on the Hibbert Lane site?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 16, 2011, 06:37:08 PM
Oh no !  I see this very differently if we look at the sequence of dates

8th July letter FOI  talks with planners lots blacked out
12 July Stephen Downs attends a governors meeting and resigns because the Principleship and the Governors are still determined to pursue selling the land to a major supermarket chain ? Even after the talks with planning, but there again we can not really see what's been said on the FOI letter
27th July Area committee meeting Stephen Lawrence and Councillors present and say that they know nothing ? And that the rumours about a supermarket is speculation ?
29th July is mentioned in the FOI letter where Lawrence says he might struggle to attend that meeting?  So what is that all important meeting that they are all having on the 29th ?
And finally what does the FOI letter mean that discussions regarding the Localism Bill may prove difficult to manage   DIFFICULT FOR WHO ?
and last but not least  Building a Tesco or ASDA somewhere Else would not fund the college plans because we must remember that there are two supermarkets fighting for the land TESCO AND ASDA
Call me suspicious I THINK WE ALL NEED TO BE ?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 16, 2011, 08:18:23 PM
I have just watched the Area Committee Meeting on the 27th July on the link on the web.  Makes very interesting watching if you then read the FOI which I have just put on .  Oh what a tangled web we weave  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 16, 2011, 10:09:10 PM
Latest FOI Response:
Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).

Here's a pic of the letter, for anyone without a PDF viewer.  Click on it for a larger view.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 17, 2011, 02:06:07 PM
There is rather a lot blacked out on this letter so a new FOI has been requested as only the supermarkets names should be blacked out (commercial sensitivity) and not what the main aim of the meeting was about.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 17, 2011, 09:19:24 PM
There is rather a lot blacked out on this letter so a new FOI has been requested as only the supermarkets names should be blacked out (commercial sensitivity) and not what the main aim of the meeting was about.
          Interesting article in the mail today re asda supermarkets page 58 .will quote some .smaller formats as become the new battle ground for britains big four the rush to downsize has been promted by britains arcate planning laws as firms strugle to get planning permision to build large stores .asda is playing catch up along with
rival morisons which last month unveiled its first m convenience store in ikley west yorkshire .. this is just part of the article in the mail .
                               so if who ever if .gets permission it may not be massive . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 17, 2011, 10:45:00 PM
          Interesting article in the mail today...[snip]

Here's a link to said article, CITY FOCUS: Supermarket giant Asda downsizes onto the High Street (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-2026734/CITY-FOCUS-Supermarket-giant-Asda-downsizes-High-Street.html). 

First time I've seen a story in the Daily Fail that doesn't feature a newly identified cancer risk, a threat to house prices, Princess Di, or immigration paranoia.  Good spot.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 08:54:50 AM
What's been a real eye opener when doing the Sat stall in the precinct is the amount of shoppers who have travelled from Hyde, Ashton, Stalybridge and other areas where the big four have moved in.   What they are saying is that they now no longer have the choice to go to their local butcher,baker newsagent or veg shop, they have all gone and that they now have to travel to enjoy the shopping experience that they once had on their doorstep    I suspect that we have been very spoilt having lots of small local traders in Marple and its that famous saying that "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE GOT TILL ITS GONE " that must be paramount in our minds in our  battle against these supermarket giants.    
ROLL ON SATURDAY !!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 18, 2011, 02:24:31 PM
          Interesting article in the mail today...[snip]

Here's a link to said article, CITY FOCUS: Supermarket giant Asda downsizes onto the High Street (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-2026734/CITY-FOCUS-Supermarket-giant-Asda-downsizes-High-Street.html). 

First time I've seen a story in the Daily Fail that doesn't feature a newly identified cancer risk, a threat to house prices, Princess Di, or immigration paranoia.  Good spot.


           Thanks for posting tried to scan them copy paste . couldnt do 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 09:48:43 PM
OH DEAR !!  This makes interesting reading

MEETINGS FROM FOI

MEETING HELD ON
 
18th Jan   PRESENT PAUL LAWRENCE , CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT

14th MARCH   PRESENT EAMON BOYLAN (STOCKPORT MBC CHIEF EXECUTIVE ) PAUL LAWRANCE, CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT

6th MAY    PRESENT    PAUL LAWRENCE , EMMA CURLE ? IAN HARRISON ? NICK WHELAN ? IAN KEYTE ? ANDREW HUBERT  AND  TURNER  ( could this be a planner from Turner Townsend Walsinghan Planning )

22nd JUNE  CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT AND PAUL LAWRENCE

27th JUNE   CHRISTINA CASSIDY, ANDREW HUBERT, COUNCILLOR CHANDLER , COUNCILLOR BISPHAM, COUNCILLOR ALEXANDER AND COUNCILLOR DOWLING

WATCH THE LINK AGAIN OF THE AREA COMMITTEE MEETING ON 27th JULY WHEN ALL OUR COUNCILLORS STOOD ON THERE LOOKING LIKE BUTTER WOUDN'T MELT AND REMEMBER PAUL LAWRENCE SAYING THEY HAD NOT BEEN IN TALKS WITH ANY SUPERMARKET PLANNERS, WELL IF I FIND OUT THAT TURNER WAS FROM THE SUPERMARKET PLANNERS ME LAWRENCE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE 350 PEOPLE HE SPOKE TO THAT NIGHT IN THE
PARK.
WELL I KNOW WHAT I WILL BE DOING TOMORROW AND THAT WILL BE CONTACTING OR ELECTED MEMBERS TO ASK WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH MS CASSIDY ON 27th JUNE 
THERE IS ANOTHER AREA COMMITTEE MEETING SOON SO IF WE HAVE NOT GOT THE ANSWERS BY THEN I SUGGEST OUR ELACTED MEMBERS HAD BETTER BOOK A LARGER PARK !!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 10:08:09 PM
OH SILLY ME !

The question I asked which provided all these dates was

I am requesting to know the dates of meetings held with CAMSFC and SMBC with regard to the proposed selling of the land on HIBBERT Lane and the names of anyone from SMBC and names of elected members who attended the meetings

WELL WELL WELL THIS TANGLED WEB IS GETTING MORE TANGLED AND TAINTED BY THE DAY ! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 18, 2011, 11:04:59 PM
OH DEAR !!  This makes interesting reading
[snip]

The list of meetings and attendees is on the FOI site here (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/camsfc#outgoing-146891).

Here's the meeting list from there, but in chronological order and with organisations/job titles added.

18th Jan @ 11.00           
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)
Christina Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)

14th March @ 12.00
Eamonn Boylan Stockport Council Chief Executive (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/councildemocracy/yourcouncil/councildirectorates/corporateleadershipteam)
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)
Christina Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)

6th May @ 11.00           
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)
Emma Curle Stockport Council Development Team Leader (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningbuildingplanningpolicy/developmentmanagement/planningprocesses/contactus)
Ian Harrison Stockport Council Regeneration Manager (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/business/regeneration/tcandmajordev/reganddevcontacts)
Nick Whelan Stockport Council Highways Planning (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=69642)
Ian Keyte Stockport Council Planning Officer (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=138&MId=322)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)
Turner & Townsend Retail planning consultancy company (http://www.turnerandtownsend.com/retail.html)

22nd June at 9.00           
Christina Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)
Paul Lawrence Stockport Council Service Director for Regeneration (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/newsroom/marplefinefoodmarket)

27th June @ 10.45           
C Cassidy Cheadle+Marple Sixth Form College Principal (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=16)
A Hubert Cheadle+MarpleSixth Form College Director of Finance & Resources (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2009_12_08%20m.pdf)
Cllrs Candler, Alexander, Bispham and Dowling
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 11:07:59 PM
OH MY GOD ! 

Thanks for doing the research SGK  it's worse than I imagined . 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 11:16:07 PM
OH MY GOD ! 

Thanks for doing the research SGK  it's worse than I imagined . 



So  Paul Lawrence  HAD been in talks with supermarket planners a month before he addressed the 350 MARPLE residents in the Park when he said that he can assure us that no talks had taken place with supermarket planners.   SO WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH IN ALL THIS ?  If anyone every doubted what MARPLE IN ACTION has been informing you about don't as it would appear that the very people we pay to speak on our behalf are doing completely the opposite. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 18, 2011, 11:43:45 PM
Can someone who is very very clever put the link to the area committee meeting under the list of meetings held at CAMSFC with the planners councillors and Paul Lawrence  and let's see who can spot those all important untruths.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 19, 2011, 12:46:26 AM
Whoa whoa whoa, Lets slow to half ahead for a second here.
From what the concil said at the last park meeting they have had "no meetings with the college". So, if you've not had any meetings with the college, was ian just there for the free tea and biscuits on the 6th? Somehow i doubt it.
I also understand that we need to nitpick, but remember not to get carried away and slam into top speed, as that's going to end up in disaster, approach it slow and steady.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 19, 2011, 08:21:11 AM
To be honest here, I can't see any disparity between the meetings listed and what we were told at the meeting in the park.

Paul Lawrence of the council's planning department made it clear that there had been meetings with the college, and that he'd made it perfectly clear to the college that a supermarket at the site was not in their core strategy and therefore council would not approve such a development.  That said, many people I've spoken to seem to suspect the council could get overruled or be steam-rollered by the supermarket's extensive legal/planning teams.

Maybe my memory is going a bit, so if I've mis-remembered please do point out.  Perhaps someone could post the offending sentences spoken at that park meeting, in that case, alongside the meeting dates etc?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 19, 2011, 08:31:13 AM
Researching the people with question marks on the FOI post

Ian Keyte - google gives the following:

http://www.nps.co.uk/whatwedo/25/compulsorypurchase/

That seems to fit the bill

Emma Curle - Stockport MBC Planning:

http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningbuildingplanningpolicy/developmentmanagement/planningprocesses/contactus

There is a Nick Whelan who is involved with the Transport department ( Highways? ) at Stockport MBC


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 19, 2011, 08:38:30 AM
Finally

Ian Harrison

Ian Harrison. Regeneration Manager at Stockport Council
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 19, 2011, 09:01:00 AM
From my recollection of what was said, Paul Lawrence stated that there had been no formal planning meetings between the Council & the College. It was not until David Hoyle got on the stand that they admitted that they had pre-planning meetings with the college (pre planning meetings are usually deemed to be in confidence) so Paul Lawrence acted quite correctly in not mentioning them at the meeting until after the college released the information.

What is not acceptable is that if any of the 4 COUNCILLORS (our elected representatives) who attended the meeting on 27th June then entered correspondence with local people stating that they had no knowledge of any plans for a Supermarket.

IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN THEY SHOULD RESIGN

Has anyone any proof?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 19, 2011, 09:15:46 AM
Alot of pre planning meetings there!! Even I'm shocked! How can all those meetings be justified?  Clearly the councillors did know about it.. BUT its got to have gone quite far and to be maybe on the lines of being agreed to get councillors involved?  Pre planning meetings are just that.. nothing to do with councillors surely.. especially if they are to be on the eventual planning committee that decides if it has the go ahead?  Wonder when the decision to send it to the main planning committee was made?.. maybe the fact they realised this info would come out was the deciding factor!!

Its frightening how many people from the council have been involved too.. clearly big discussions going on about roads etc... this is not Pre planning... this is making sure what ever they come up with is acceptable to planning department and any other department that the development effects prior to any planning decision.. making it difficult for the council to 1 say no.. and 2 if they do these meetings will be dragged up in any planning inquiry!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 19, 2011, 09:27:20 AM
Alot of pre planning meetings there!! Even I'm shocked! How can all those meetings be justified?  Clearly the councillors did know about it..[snip]

It's quite odd looking back at earlier communications, such as the somewhat condescending one from Councillor Bispham on 10th June (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg15338#msg15338), where he dismissed the very idea of a supermarket on college land as mere rumour, comparing it to crazy conspiracy theories like GM crops on Awkwright Road and nuclear waste being dumped at Chadkirk Mill.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 19, 2011, 09:31:34 AM
Paul Lawrence stated that he had no talks with supermarket planners from CAMCFC Yet it clearly shows that he has
Councillors denied any knowledge of a supermarket and I have got letters and emails from most of them stating that including one of Andrew Stunell
This is about what people are not saying, could you imagine the outcry in the park that night if  we had been informed by Paul Lawrence   that Stockports Chief Executive ,SMBC planning , SMBC Highways dept , CAMSFC Supermarket Planners , SMBC regeneration officers  and 4 elected members had been in talks at some point within the past 6months with Ms Cassidy and Andrew Hubert regarding the sale of the HIBBERT Lane site
What deals , alternatives are being suggested, planned or rubber stamped without due consultation with the community and why is Paul Lawrence saying that he thinks if the college move the sports facilities to Buxton Lane the covenants would be overcome on HIBBERT Lane.  No they should not be, the plots of land were given by two different MARPLE Families, and the family who donated the HIBBERT Lane Sight gave it for the education of Local People  so why are alternatives being even looked at and what are SMBC highways in on the meeting for ? I hope it's not looking at moving road, and putting roundabouts in ?  I think we need all these people round our table for a change, too many secret meetings for something that's not going to happen, don't you think
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 19, 2011, 09:58:49 AM
Lisa is right to point out that pre-planning meetings do not involve councillors. However, she then goes on to write 'discussions going on about roads etc... this is not Pre planning... this is making sure what ever they come up with is acceptable to planning department and any other department that the development effects prior to any planning decision..'

On the contrary, that IS what pre-planning meetings are about. Submitting a planning application for a major development is a complex (and costly) business, and potential applicants invariably seek guidance from planning officers in advance as to what is likely to be acceptable - they'd be crazy not to!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 19, 2011, 05:50:04 PM
So all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC about planning, why was the Chief Executive of the entire council there ?  All sounds mighty fishy to me
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 19, 2011, 06:33:34 PM
From my recollection of what was said, Paul Lawrence stated that there had been no formal planning meetings between the Council & the College. It was not until David Hoyle got on the stand that they admitted that they had pre-planning meetings with the college (pre planning meetings are usually deemed to be in confidence) so Paul Lawrence acted quite correctly in not mentioning them at the meeting until after the college released the information.

What is not acceptable is that if any of the 4 COUNCILLORS (our elected representatives) who attended the meeting on 27th June then entered correspondence with local people stating that they had no knowledge of any plans for a Supermarket.

IF THAT IS THE CASE THEN THEY SHOULD RESIG


Has anyone any proof?
Yes I have one off Paul Lawrence,   Councillor Bispham   Councillor Dowling   Councillor.Sue  Ingham   Councillor Chandler   Oh yes nearly forgot,  Andrew Stunell MP
DID SOMEONE JUST SHOUT BINGO ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 19, 2011, 06:50:23 PM
This is all rather confusing! This may be because of different meanings of the word 'plans'. I was at the famous 'party in the park', and heard Mr Lawrence state clearly that he had met management staff from camsfc, and advised them that a major retail development on the Hibbert Lane site would not comply with the council's core strategy. That is not a planning meeting, or a pre-planning meeting, or a 'meeting with supermarket planners'. Those meetings would come at a later stage, if and when a formal planning application is being prepared.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 19, 2011, 07:06:12 PM
This is all rather confusing! This may be because of different meanings of the word 'plans'. I was at the famous 'party in the park', and heard Mr Lawrence state clearly that he had met management staff from camsfc, and advised them that a major retail development on the Hibbert Lane site would not comply with the council's core strategy. That is not a planning meeting, or a pre-planning meeting, or a 'meeting with supermarket planners'. Those meetings would come at a later stage, if and when a formal planning application is being prepared.

Not necessarily Dave. I do quite a lot of pre-planning meetings with Council officers in the North West, simply to sound them out regarding different sites and the potential response of different Council departments to the principle of a planning application. Officers are, after all, the local 'experts'. The fact that officers attend such meetings and give out such advice should not be seen as anything other than good practice - it certainly does not mean that the Council are sympathetic to the cause.

Sometimes a developer will walk away from after initial pre-app consultation, if he feels that he will have a massive battle on his hands and that the Council is hard against him. Sometimes they will take a risk. Thats how planning works.

I really think that people should be careful about laying into the Council and Councillors over this. They have made the principles of their planning position very clear.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 20, 2011, 08:06:30 AM
Thanks belly - I take your point. I also strongly agree that the crusaders of MIA would be well advsied to moderate ther attacks on councillors and council officers. Staging what seems more and more like a vendetta against both the college and the council may not be the most effective way of winning hearts and minds!

As for Miss M's point that ' all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC', I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 20, 2011, 08:17:19 AM

As for Miss M's point that ' all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC', I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 

I agree.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 20, 2011, 11:02:58 AM
Thanks belly - I take your point. I also strongly agree that the crusaders of MIA would be well advsied to moderate ther attacks on councillors and council officers. Staging what seems more and more like a vendetta against both the college and the council may not be the most effective way of winning hearts and minds!

As for Miss M's point that ' all our hard earned taxes are spent getting half of the senior SMBC officers including The Chief Executive of the council to attend meetings with CAMSFC', I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 
Oh you can be cutting with me at times, but like I alway say WE ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS OUR OPPOSITION so thanks for you comments  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 20, 2011, 11:56:48 AM
I think the FOI requests are in fact very useful.. I prefer the little that is spent on them in comparison to the huge wages and expenses many council officials and councillors claim.. however that no doubt is another discussion :)

"consultation".. "guidance from council officials".... all to be used later " but we jumped through hoops"  I'm sure Belly you have had these sorts of meetings but have you ever gone back again and again and again and again?  I do know these meetings can and wll be used in any future planning appeal..


And no I don't see any reason why they should be discussing road changes and all other stuff beyond mr Lawrence meeting with them to say..actually no we wont accept any supermarket developments as its contrary to stockport planning guidance! so yes.. relatively happy to see him meeting many times with them to say no no no no no... but no reason for anyone else after they've said we wont accept...  and ESPECIALLY NOT the councillors
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 20, 2011, 12:01:11 PM
Well said Lisa,and don't forget Ian Keyte the compulsory purchase guy :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 20, 2011, 12:02:32 PM
...I for one would rather my council tax were spent on dealing with important matters such as these, than on dealing with endless FOI requests! 

If there's another way to have frank, open and honest discussion over this development, I'd happily take it.  Have tried meetings, tried emails, tried open forums and tried reading published minutes but the FOI route remains the one which returns the most information.

The development could impact people's livelihoods, their families, their quality of life.  In no way do I believe any of the FOIs I've submitted are trivial and pointless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 20, 2011, 12:07:46 PM
All valuable info' Neil, Thanks for your contributions!and if people wan't to see the money that is squandered by SMBC on cars and hotels etc they should look at past FOI questions and answers :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 20, 2011, 11:35:45 PM
This post contained copies of two emails sent by Christina Cassidy to her staff earlier this year on April 7 and then on May 9.

I received a request to remove them from Andrew Hubert of Cheadle and Marple College at 1.20pm today (28 July 2011). Andrew provided a copy of the CAMSFC Disclaimer that the he says accompanied the original emails when they were sent out to college staff, which I have pasted below:

CAMSFC DISCLAIMER: This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is intended to be addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the College. If you have received this message in error, or you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying or disclose of its contents to any other person is strictly prohibited, please notify the sender immediately, by responding to this message and then deleting it from your system. The College nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan this email.

I have sought advice regarding the legal position on this and have been advised to comply with the college's request. Admin.




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 20, 2011, 11:41:09 PM
Just a reminder of the two leaked emails that the college asked to be removed to date teachers, staff, parents or students do not know what is happening and the Principalship will not communicate with anyone in the college in case it leaks out.  We have received calls from two teachers at the college, several students and concerned parents wanting to know information as to what's happening to the college and how it will effect jobs and the students education  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 21, 2011, 07:07:32 AM
I guess the above is a very good illustration of why these FOI requests are a wate of everyone's time. The college has (very unwisely) tried to hush up its plans. Tut tut and all that - and seriously, I agree that a responsible body should not behave like that.

However, in the long run the way the college has (mis)handled the PR at this early stage of its project will not make a scrap of difference to the outcome. This scheme will be considered through 'due process': by the council and then (if turned down) through the appeals process.  MIA would be well advised to concentrate its efforts on submitting objections through these processes, and through political lobbying. Trivial information about who met who in the early stages will count for nothing.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 21, 2011, 10:29:23 AM
... MIA would be well advised to concentrate its efforts on submitting objections through these processes, and through political lobbying. Trivial information about who met who in the early stages will count for nothing.

As you saw yesterday there's considerable support, with very extensive resources, so all avenues are being pursued.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 21, 2011, 11:14:46 AM
Dave there would be no need for FOI requests if the college was not trying to hide information  :-\.  I am unsure if you managed to have sight of the emails before CAMSFC asked for them to be removed, if you did then I can not really understand your point about FOI requests. We are dealing with a college who has a legal duty of care to it's students and potential students not the secret service.
We were joined on the march yesterday by students from the college and students parents all concerned about what is happening and the effects on education, surely this can not be right?
When I had a meeting with Ms Cassidy and Andrew Hubert they made it very clear that this had been going on for nearly 2 years so your rational about awaiting due process, may not for the community against the supermarket being built on Hibbert lane be  the correct thing to do, because what we are trying to find out is, if the due process has already been done and we are just sat watching them tie up the loose ends. 
What we must always be mindful of is that this land was a gift to the people of MARPLE for education,the college is a private concern and the college still if their plans go ahead will be placing students in a somewhat hostile community.  Part of their mission statement is to work closely with the community and work to integrate within it  :-\. I think someone from CAMSFC needs to either re read or re write don't you  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on August 21, 2011, 08:41:19 PM
Some years ago, following the lead of other residents in our road, I joined in a protest about a new block of flats being built in our road. It also evoked an outcry at a local area committee, demands for information about who knew what and when, claims about depressing house prices, traffic etc. The council dutifully threw out the planning proposal and the developers subsequently won their appeal. I look at what was built and wonder why I campaigned against it - it doesn't look bad and has negligible impact on me or the local environment. I was stupid to jump on the bandwagon of opposing change for the sake of opposing change.

The same appears to be happening here. I note with some concern that some of the most vociferous opponents of a supermarket scheme are the same people who vigorously condemned the work on Dan Bank. Well, look at that now: it is a magnificent piece of civil engineering, looks tidy, is a lot safer and, with a bit of care of the trees, will be many times better than before.

People make a lot about CAMSFC's governors not living in Marple. Well, looking at the photographs of the march, quite a lot of the participants don't live anywhere close to Hibbert Lane either and aren't going to be remotely affected by this scheme.

Likewise, if you drive out of Marple to do a "big supermarket shop" you are taking both your traffic fumes and your spending power out of Marple, not helping either the environment or the local traders. If you demand that the college don't think just about money, then don't raise the issue of your house prices. If you complain about living in line of sight of a supermarket then just stand on the opposite side of Hibbert Lane and look at the college - it isn't the prettiest of buildings.

I am somewhat neutral about the local small shops - none of them are open when I come home from work and I am forced to spend money in the co-op ... or the co-op (yes, time that monopoly ended). On the other hand my children will shortly be going to the college every day, so I, like the governors and principal of CAMSFC, am concerned about their education and I really don't care whether the governors and principal live in Marple or not. Most of the wage-earners in Marple don't actually work in Marple - they commute outside.

Perhaps it is time for a new forum topic to start suggesting realistic alternative proposals for how Marple Sixth-Form College - and yes, it is MARPLE'S sixth form college - can raise the money they need for new build. I may (observing the poll) be in a minority in this forum who would like a new supermarket, but I don't think I am the only person in Marple in that position.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on August 21, 2011, 09:04:38 PM
I totally agree
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 21, 2011, 10:02:28 PM
Some years ago, following the lead of other residents in our road, I joined in a protest about a new block of flats being built in our road. It also evoked an outcry at a local area committee, demands for information about who knew what and when, claims about depressing house prices, traffic etc. The council dutifully threw out the planning proposal and the developers subsequently won their appeal. I look at what was built and wonder why I campaigned against it - it doesn't look bad and has negligible impact on me or the local environment. I was stupid to jump on the bandwagon of opposing change for the sake of opposing change.

The same appears to be happening here. I note with some concern that some of the most vociferous opponents of a supermarket scheme are the same people who vigorously condemned the work on Dan Bank. Well, look at that now: it is a magnificent piece of civil engineering, looks tidy, is a lot safer and, with a bit of care of the trees, will be many times better than before.

People make a lot about CAMSFC's governors not living in Marple. Well, looking at the photographs of the march, quite a lot of the participants don't live anywhere close to Hibbert Lane either and aren't going to be remotely affected by this scheme.

Wow Hollins, you seem to have missed the point. 

Just because you protested about a set of flats which turned out ok, or saw a protest about Dan Bank widening which turned out ok certainly doesn't mean all subsequent developments are just "peachy".

And of course many of the thousand outraged protestors this weekend don't live close to Hibbert Lane. 

Many are folk who shop in Marple and like the shopping experience there, or who have businesses in Marple and don't want to be driven out by yet another Tesco/ASDA, or who live near Buxton Lane and don't want to see a massive development on their doorstep. 

A few of them might even think that the behemoths that are Tesco/Asda aren't wanted in every town across this land, that towns don't need to be clones of each other, with each town selling the exact same items. 

Hey, some of the protestors might just be there because they think that after making £6,000 profit every minute of every day (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317797/Tesco-makes-profit-6k-minute-bosses-unveil-plans-mortgages.html), Tesco should pause their voracious appetite for new stores, and show some social responsiblity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_responsibility).

Likewise, if you drive out of Marple to do a "big supermarket shop" you are taking both your traffic fumes and your spending power out of Marple, not helping either the environment or the local traders.

Crikey Hollins, you're on a lost cause re environment issues. 

Huge number of people do their "big supermarket shop" on their way back from work, convenient that way and also keeps the costly petrol bill down. 

Environmental impact of a merely building a new Tesco/ASDA is massive : why else would Friends Of The Earth (whose Stockport branch is supporting Marple In Action efforts (http://twitter.com/#!/Stockport_FOE)) describe Tesco stores as "energy-intensive eyesores" (http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/the_tesco_takeover.pdf).  Or for Sheffield Hallam University (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=188) conclude "large superstores are the most energy inefficient buildings in the sector" or "It would take more than 60 corner shops and greengrocers to match the carbon dioxide emissions from one average sized superstore.".

If you demand that the college don't think just about money, then don't raise the issue of your house prices. If you complain about living in line of sight of a supermarket then just stand on the opposite side of Hibbert Lane and look at the college - it isn't the prettiest of buildings.

I am somewhat neutral about the local small shops - none of them are open when I come home from work and I am forced to spend money in the co-op ... or the co-op (yes, time that monopoly ended). On the other hand my children will shortly be going to the college every day, so I, like the governors and principal of CAMSFC, am concerned about their education and I really don't care whether the governors and principal live in Marple or not. Most of the wage-earners in Marple don't actually work in Marple - they commute outside.

Perhaps it is time for a new forum topic to start suggesting realistic alternative proposals for how Marple Sixth-Form College - and yes, it is MARPLE'S sixth form college - can raise the money they need for new build. I may (observing the poll) be in a minority in this forum who would like a new supermarket, but I don't think I am the only person in Marple in that position.

It's quite tricky for the man-in-the-street to review the college's financials (the last 3 years of which are published in spreadsheets here : colleges have to publish such data by law (http://skillsfundingagency.bis.gov.uk/providers/finance/financialmanagement/financialmanagement/collegeaccounts/)) and come up with suggestions, exacerbated by the vacuum of further information from the college. 

However, I understand our MP Andrew Stunell's "Get The College To Think Again" campaign will involve opening a dialogue with the college on this matter.

Let's do everything we can to avoid the college evacuating the Hibbert Lane campus, to avoid a huge supermarket muscling in, and to between us come up with a solution that suits the community and the students.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 21, 2011, 10:29:56 PM
What a fantastic post Neil !!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on August 21, 2011, 10:44:50 PM
Can I ask a question? .... The building on Buxton Lane has 5 floors, so how can a new building on there be intrusive?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 21, 2011, 11:19:34 PM
Can I ask a question? .... The building on Buxton Lane has 5 floors, so how can a new building on there be intrusive?
Because as it stands now it is rellatively small, However, because the college would have to encorperate both campuses onto one site the building would have to be bigger, so there goes your green fields and the football pitches, but because they can only take up a certain amount of space before the green belt comes into play the are going to build up aswell, so the buildling could be higher than it is currently :/
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 21, 2011, 11:27:07 PM
A very thoughtful post, hollims - well said!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 22, 2011, 08:00:57 AM
Miss M, you don't need an FOI request if ' what we are trying to find out is, if the due process has already been done and we are just sat watching them tie up the loose ends'. All planning applications can be viewed on the council website. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 22, 2011, 09:03:54 AM
Can I ask a question? .... The building on Buxton Lane has 5 floors, so how can a new building on there be intrusive?
Because as it stands now it is rellatively small, However, because the college would have to encorperate both campuses onto one site the building would have to be bigger, so there goes your green fields and the football pitches, but because they can only take up a certain amount of space before the green belt comes into play the are going to build up aswell, so the buildling could be higher than it is currently :/

Green belt wouldn't apply to the Buxton Road site - its an urban location. There are, however, standards for proximity of buildings and overlooking.

MM I think the point that Dave is trying to make is that at the moment, nothing is official and until a planning application is lodged, there is no real 'due process'. The College and / or developers are quite at liberty to have discussions with Council departments about various elements of their emerging scheme in order to understand whether any of it might be deemed suitable to the site in question, accords with standards, or addresses specific issues, but that doesn't mean that secret deals are being done. Its no different to speaking to the Council a number of times about a proposed extension to your house, albeit at a bit of a different scale! 

Ultimately the merits, or otherwise, of the scheme will  be tested publically via the planning process, which is transparent and factual. At that point all rumours, suspicion and emotion go out of the window and a scheme is considered entirley on the details of the scheme.

At present I can see both sides to the arguments with respect to the 'proposals' (such as they are at the moment) and will be in a much better position to make an informed judgement once I see the details of what any scheme might entail.

Could I also caution against turning up at area planning committee and ambushing the meeting. Firstly I think it would be counter productive to rail against Councillors and officers about something, that at this pre-planning stage, they have no control over. Secondly, lots of other local planning schemes will be being considered at that meeting, including projects for local people. Such persons would rightly be upset if their opportunity to have their plans considered was materially impacted upon by protests and demonstrations about a scheme that at this stage doesn't exist in planning terms!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 22, 2011, 09:10:42 AM
Very wise words from belly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jo Scarlett on August 22, 2011, 09:45:11 AM
It may be worth considering another approach, in addition to all those currently being investigated.  Marple residents have used the college site for many years as a sporting / recreational ground.  Youth teams play/train on the football pitches, the sports hall is used for many sports in all weathers.

We may be able to add some weight to the 'open green space' argument??  See the following link for more information  http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/ (http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/)  Sporting England carry a lot weight too and it may be worth asking for their opinion http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx (http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx)

"Local communities will be able to earmark for special consideration local ‘green space’ land – whether its value is in its natural beauty, its historic resonances, its recreational value, its tranquillity or its importance as wildlife habitat"

Just a thought....?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 22, 2011, 01:21:49 PM
It may be worth considering another approach, in addition to all those currently being investigated.  Marple residents have used the college site for many years as a sporting / recreational ground.  Youth teams play/train on the football pitches, the sports hall is used for many sports in all weathers.

We may be able to add some weight to the 'open green space' argument??  See the following link for more information  http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/ (http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/)  Sporting England carry a lot weight too and it may be worth asking for their opinion http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx (http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx)

"Local communities will be able to earmark for special consideration local ‘green space’ land – whether its value is in its natural beauty, its historic resonances, its recreational value, its tranquillity or its importance as wildlife habitat"

Just a thought....?

It's worth a try.

However, whilst a lot has been made of the fact that they *could* build a Supermarket the size of Portwood on the plot of land as a whole, I think that if/when their planning application is submitted, it'll be for something much smaller (along the lines of Glossop), that would fit within the footprint of the existing buildings.

If they did that, then it would be a good PR move for them to propose rejuvenating the open space, committing to maintaining it, and maybe even improving it - say adding a children's play area similar to that in Memorial Park. And, of course, doing that would nullify one of the valid routes of objection to redevelopment of the site, loss of amenity (ie loss of the open space).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 22, 2011, 05:20:35 PM
Some years ago, following the lead of other residents in our road, I joined in a protest about a new block of flats being built in our road. It also evoked an outcry at a local area committee, demands for information about who knew what and when, claims about depressing house prices, traffic etc. The council dutifully threw out the planning proposal and the developers subsequently won their appeal. I look at what was built and wonder why I campaigned against it - it doesn't look bad and has negligible impact on me or the local environment. I was stupid to jump on the bandwagon of opposing change for the sake of opposing change.

The same appears to be happening here. I note with some concern that some of the most vociferous opponents of a supermarket scheme are the same people who vigorously condemned the work on Dan Bank. Well, look at that now: it is a magnificent piece of civil engineering, looks tidy, is a lot safer and, with a bit of care of the trees, will be many times better than before.

People make a lot about CAMSFC's governors not living in Marple. Well, looking at the photographs of the march, quite a lot of the participants don't live anywhere close to Hibbert Lane either and aren't going to be remotely affected by this scheme.

Likewise, if you drive out of Marple to do a "big supermarket shop" you are taking both your traffic fumes and your spending power out of Marple, not helping either the environment or the local traders. If you demand that the college don't think just about money, then don't raise the issue of your house prices. If you complain about living in line of sight of a supermarket then just stand on the opposite side of Hibbert Lane and look at the college - it isn't the prettiest of buildings.

I am somewhat neutral about the local small shops - none of them are open when I come home from work and I am forced to spend money in the co-op ... or the co-op (yes, time that monopoly ended). On the other hand my children will shortly be going to the college every day, so I, like the governors and principal of CAMSFC, am concerned about their education and I really don't care whether the governors and principal live in Marple or not. Most of the wage-earners in Marple don't actually work in Marple - they commute outside.

Perhaps it is time for a new forum topic to start suggesting realistic alternative proposals for how Marple Sixth-Form College - and yes, it is MARPLE'S sixth form college - can raise the money they need for new build. I may (observing the poll) be in a minority in this forum who would like a new supermarket, but I don't think I am the only person in Marple in that position.



Hollins,if the apartments built on the bungalow site Staion Rd/Hollins Green Rd are what you are talking about,they are a lot less intrusive as a supermarket.There is no comparison!Of course people all over Marple will be affected by increased traffic not just Hibbert lane and surrounding roads, thats why they attended the march amongst other reasons ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 22, 2011, 05:33:17 PM
It may be worth considering another approach, in addition to all those currently being investigated.  Marple residents have used the college site for many years as a sporting / recreational ground.  Youth teams play/train on the football pitches, the sports hall is used for many sports in all weathers.

We may be able to add some weight to the 'open green space' argument??  See the following link for more information  http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/ (http://www.opengreenspace.com/news/communities-get-power-to-protect-green-spaces/)  Sporting England carry a lot weight too and it may be worth asking for their opinion http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx (http://www.sportengland.org/facilities__planning/putting_policy_into_practice/playing_fields.aspx)

"Local communities will be able to earmark for special consideration local ‘green space’ land – whether its value is in its natural beauty, its historic resonances, its recreational value, its tranquillity or its importance as wildlife habitat"

Just a thought....?
Thanks for the suggestion Jo s,That and similar items are already being looked into. Keep 'em coming though :) Every little helps! ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Stationery Supplies on August 23, 2011, 09:31:06 AM
http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/08/marple-supermarket-arguments-for.html

Interesting reading.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 23, 2011, 10:05:51 AM
http://themarpleleaf.blogspot.com/2011/08/marple-supermarket-arguments-for.html

Interesting reading.

Yes it is a good point, I always thought being a blogger was a euphemism for unemployed people to give themselves a bit of self-worth but Michael has a proper job. The first comment is very good.

It's not often I agree with the Union of Soviet Socialist Dave on here but he & Hollins are quite right. The contant FOI requests for largely irrelevant information is counter productive in that it is going to turn decision makers off rather than get them onside.

The misinformation that the comment on Marple Leaf's blog is extremely relevant. Whilst we may be able to mobilise troops is we tell everyone the shop is going to be bigger than Tesco Portwood & larger than 4,5,6 football pitches, if the actual plans show this to be untrue, the objection will be dead in the water.


I am against a Supermarket on the site I think it's the wrong place for an additional retail centre that can only detract from the existing stores. and there are traffic issues for an area of the Town that cannot really cope with the current traffic levels. However, the objections must be logical, based on fact and practical alternatives sought.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Jerome Caminada on August 23, 2011, 10:26:07 PM
I know I`m going to get pelters but I am part of the silent majority in Marple who think a new supermarket development is just what the town needs.
Marple centre is tired looking and on it`s last legs and although a shame it`s harsh economical facts. 
If SMBC were that bothered they would offer competitive discounts on business rates for new businesses and offer free parking.
The main street is full of empty premises so anew supermarket won`t do any harm.
Marple should re brand itself as the gateway to some beautiful countryside and outdoor pursuits and create niche shops to fit in with that style of town/village centre.

I`m not trying to wind you all up I just think an alternative viewpoint should be aired.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 23, 2011, 11:27:17 PM
I know I`m going to get pelters but I am part of the silent majority in Marple who think a new supermarket development is just what the town needs.
Marple centre is tired looking and on it`s last legs and although a shame it`s harsh economical facts. 
If SMBC were that bothered they would offer competitive discounts on business rates for new businesses and offer free parking.
The main street is full of empty premises so anew supermarket won`t do any harm.
Marple should re brand itself as the gateway to some beautiful countryside and outdoor pursuits and create niche shops to fit in with that style of town/village centre.

I`m not trying to wind you all up I just think an alternative viewpoint should be aired.

Whilst I agree a new supermaket COULD give the place a kickstart, not at the Hibbert Lane site as that would only make things worse.

THe answer would be to have a supermarket within the centre but the only premises suitable would be the clothes shop.

Fully with you that business rates needs to be addressing for retailers, business rates have been used to rape businesses over the past 15 years and a profit related local tax system is needed. I
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 23, 2011, 11:46:29 PM
No 'pelters' from this direction, Jerome - I think you make some good points.

Duke, if by 'the clothes shop' you mean McKay's, I suspect that's much too small for a Tesco or Asda.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 23, 2011, 11:55:30 PM
No 'pelters' from this direction, Jerome - I think you make some good points.

Duke, if by 'the clothes shop' you mean McKay's, I suspect that's much too small for a Tesco or Asda.

M and co is the one i mean as there is the upstairs too.

I've suggested before that as I understand it the landlord of themm&co is the same as the 1960s  shop opposite the Italian restaurant. The key would be to tempt m&co into that shop and a supermarket such as moggies into the m&co building
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 24, 2011, 12:05:50 AM
...
The answer would be to have a supermarket within the centre but the only premises suitable would be the clothes shop.

Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2011, 07:21:37 AM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 24, 2011, 07:42:20 AM
Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).



This may be the worst possible scenario.

A new supermarket, which, some are claiming, would increase traffic.

The loss of a major car park in the town centre.

The college then having to sell the Hibbert Lane site for housing, so another few hundred homes built, which in turn means hundreds more cars.

And we will probably have another hundred or so homes on the Peacefield site eventually.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 08:28:05 AM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!

True Dave but that is the college's problem & not of my concern.

I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 08:41:51 AM
...
The answer would be to have a supermarket within the centre but the only premises suitable would be the clothes shop.

Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).

I hadn't seen that, interesting but the site is suggested only IF it is believed an existing site in unavailable. My solution is to utilise the existing buildings if it is attractive to the commercial organisations. I see this as a solution as m&co get a cheaper rent, coop don't have an empty building, newco supermarket get a new store in a good location, MIA fend off Hibbert la & Marple get the supermarket they demand



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 24, 2011, 09:21:35 AM

I hadn't seen that, interesting but the site is suggested only IF it is believed an existing site in unavailable. My solution is to utilise the existing buildings if it is attractive to the commercial organisations. I see this as a solution as m&co get a cheaper rent, coop don't have an empty building, newco supermarket get a new store in a good location, MIA fend off Hibbert la & Marple get the supermarket they demand

Just a couple of possible problems there Duke.

M&Co may not want to move to smaller premises.

The Co-op used to be in the building where M&Co currently is, but then it had the whole ground floor, including what is now Superdrug. This wasn't large enough so they had the current store built. This may mean that the Co-op are the landlord there, and therefore wouldn't rent to a supermarket, even though it would only be convenience store size.

Also, I doubt that any new supermarket of a viable size, i.e. if they also got the Superdrug premises, would accept a site without car parking right alongside it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 09:52:46 AM

I hadn't seen that, interesting but the site is suggested only IF it is believed an existing site in unavailable. My solution is to utilise the existing buildings if it is attractive to the commercial organisations. I see this as a solution as m&co get a cheaper rent, coop don't have an empty building, newco supermarket get a new store in a good location, MIA fend off Hibbert la & Marple get the supermarket they demand

Just a couple of possible problems there Duke.

M&Co may not want to move to smaller premises.

The Co-op used to be in the building where M&Co currently is, but then it had the whole ground floor, including what is now Superdrug. This wasn't large enough so they had the current store built. This may mean that the Co-op are the landlord there, and therefore wouldn't rent to a supermarket, even though it would only be convenience store size.

Also, I doubt that any new supermarket of a viable size, i.e. if they also got the Superdrug premises, would accept a site without car parking right alongside it.

If M&Co don’t want to move, so be it. I’m certainly not ever suggesting the local authority dictate what commercial business should do, people within the LA’s tend not to be very sharp & should never get involved in business.

I understand the Co-op is the landlord (or at least the owner of the current lease) in both the M&co shop & the one opposite the Italian. Whilst the co-op may not want to rent a property to a competitor in an ideal world, the threat to the co-op is that a competitor opens a much larger store on the college site. Renting to a competitor in a smaller store may be seen as not only the least dangerous option, it also blows the argument of any other store wanting to build on  new site that Marple people are demanding more competition. It also puts the co-op in control of who the competitor is which again may be seen as attractive in the circumstances.

As for size, the M&co does not use the upstairs of the building, that is quite a decent square footage.

I think the car-parking issue is easily resolved, the current car-park is close enough and the capacity can be increased with another car-park level added. With a bit of cladding and softening of the edges, multi-story car parks can be made quite presentable.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2011, 11:03:12 AM
Duke, the college may very well be able to 'become more efficient and create more income streams', but there's no way that would raise 12 million of capital, sadly! And btw, the 'current guy' is a woman.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 11:33:54 AM
Duke, the college may very well be able to 'become more efficient and create more income streams', but there's no way that would raise 12 million of capital, sadly! And btw, the 'current guy' is a woman.

Whatever next, they'll get the vote.

Becoming more efficient and more income streams will give the ability to raise funds.

I'd take some convincing that the college needs to raise £12m in any case and the same applies to the need for replacing the current buildings with 'efficient buildings'. My first instinct is that's just a load of lefty mumbo jumbo but I can be convinced.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 12:06:02 PM
Bear in mind that Stockport Council's preferred location is Chadwick Street (presumably on the site of the existing car park, behind Iceland?), see the email from Paul Lawrence (Stockport Council Regeneration Manager) to Christina Cassidy (CAMSFC Principal) (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf).



This may be the worst possible scenario.

A new supermarket, which, some are claiming, would increase traffic.

The loss of a major car park in the town centre.

The college then having to sell the Hibbert Lane site for housing, so another few hundred homes built, which in turn means hundreds more cars.

And we will probably have another hundred or so homes on the Peacefield site eventually

It's not really that bad a deal, there is plenty scope for an extra level of parking on a number of car park sites however, it would be better to have the supermarket within the excisting retail area so maybe the car park at Derby St would be a better site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 24, 2011, 12:39:31 PM
I should think the idea of multi level car parks is the way to go. This seems to have worked very well at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 24, 2011, 04:01:59 PM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!

True Dave but that is the college's problem & not of my concern.

I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.

And the college would probably say what you want is not their concern.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 24, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
Building another supermarket in the precient would still kill local shops (especially the Co-op) as the smaller independant shops cannot compete with the low prices due to the sheer buying power of the big companies. It could also increase traffic and there is the parking problem. Residents on Chadwick street would probably not want a multi-story for a view. The car park also is chock a block on theatre nights so if the car park went to make way for a building it would be chaos around the roads round there.

Suggesting shops move or a better use for the site isn't really going to do anything it's just wishful thinking, sadly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2011, 04:42:55 PM
This thread seems to be drifting into la-la-land! AFAIK there is no proposal to build a supermarket on Chadwick Street, or on the McKay's site or M and Co or whatever it's called this week. I suggest we go back to discussing what IS being proposed.

Duke, are all new buildings 'lefty mumbo jumbo'? Or just college buildings?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on August 24, 2011, 04:58:21 PM
I think the point that was made in Paul Lawrence's email was that IF more retail development was done in Marple then it would be on Chadwick St as that is already zoned for retail. He was telling the college that it although it was a "less commercially attractive [site than Hibbert Lane]" (presumably to a developer) the council believed it was "deliverable" (presumably a purchaser/developer would be able to work with the council to develop it).

So, because Chadwick St is in the right place and that it is next in line for development, he was telling the college that Hibbert Lane's status as a development opportunity is significantly undermined.

This doesn't help the college in selling off Hibbert lane for the £12m-£13m they say they need, but it still means that there could be another supermarket in Marple, just not on Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 06:12:40 PM
Which is all very interesting but completely beside the point, because these locations, however suitable, wouldn't raise a penny for the college!

True Dave but that is the college's problem & not of my concern.

I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.

And the college would probably say what you want is not their concern.

But it is because I am a local resident whom would be able to object to planning applications.

The college's lust for £12m is not my concern
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: chicken lady on August 24, 2011, 06:26:57 PM
This thread seems to be drifting into la-la-land! AFAIK there is no proposal to build a supermarket on Chadwick Street, or on the McKay's site or M and Co or whatever it's called this week. I suggest we go back to discussing what IS being proposed.

hear hear!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 24, 2011, 06:31:45 PM
This thread seems to be drifting into la-la-land! AFAIK there is no proposal to build a supermarket on Chadwick Street, or on the McKay's site or M and Co or whatever it's called this week. I suggest we go back to discussing what IS being proposed.

Duke, are all new buildings 'lefty mumbo jumbo'? Or just college buildings?

No need for that Dave, you've just misunderstand me.

You rightly say (in more coherent times) that should the college sell to a supermarket, the purchaser will need to apply for plannig. Until then, no amount of hysteria will change anything.

I am anticipating the arguments a developer will put forward and points made elsewhere on this forum. The obvious ones are:

The shops in Marple do not meet the shopping demands of the people of Marple. This is clear as the majority advise they shop elsewhere for their 'big' shop.

The co-op has a monopoly in the supermarket stakes in Marple and shoppers in Marple suffer.


To counter this argument the obvious solution would be for another supermarket to enter teh local market and the co-op holds the cards to make this possible.

As for mumbo jumbo, I think your argument that the college's buildings are inefficient is a red-herring, I can't see the justification for selling the site on this basis. As I say, I am prepared to be convinced otherwise.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 24, 2011, 10:03:09 PM
Latest FOI Response:
Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).

Here's a pic of the letter, for anyone without a PDF viewer.  Click on it for a larger view.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 24, 2011, 10:09:10 PM
One very important question was  raised at  tonights Area Committee meeting by a member of the public, which has really got me thinking.   I wanted to remind people of the above letter from Paul Lawrence,  read carefully about the Localism Bill.   Oh I do hope the chap who asked the question  reads this web sight if he does he will be very concerned and rightly so given it's contents.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 25, 2011, 11:37:57 AM
One very important question was  raised at  tonights Area Committee meeting by a member of the public, which has really got me thinking.   I wanted to remind people of the above letter from Paul Lawrence,  read carefully about the Localism Bill.   Oh I do hope the chap who asked the question  reads this web sight if he does he will be very concerned and rightly so given it's contents.

For those of us who didn't attend the meeting, could you expand a little on what you mean. In particular, what was the question asked?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on August 25, 2011, 06:43:27 PM
I believe this was the information brought up yesterday at the Local Area Meeting

Neighbourhood planning
Instead of local people being told what to do, the Government thinks that local
communities should have genuine opportunities to influence the future of the
places where they live.  The Bill will introduce a new right for communities to
draw up a ‘neighbourhood development plan’. 
Neighbourhood planning will allow communities to come together through a
local parish council or neighbourhood forum and say where they think new
houses, businesses and shops should go – and what they should look like. 
11These neighbourhood development plans could be very simple, or go into
considerable detail where people want.  Local communities would also be
able to grant full or outline planning permission in areas where they most want
to see new homes and businesses, making it easier and quicker for
development to go ahead.   
Provided a neighbourhood development plan is in line with national planning
policy, with the strategic vision for the wider area set by the local authority,
and with other legal requirements, local people will be able to vote on it in a
referendum.  If the plan is approved by a majority, then the local authority will
bring it into force.
Local planning authorities will be required to provide technical advice and
support as neighbourhoods draw up their plans.  The Government will also
fund sources of help and advice for communities.  This will help people take
advantage of the opportunity to exercise influence over decisions that make a
big difference to their lives. 
(taken from the Plain English Guide to The Localism Bill http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/localgovernment/localismplainenglishguide)

The question of how Andrew Stunnell voted was also raised.  His record of voting can be viewed here
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?id=uk.org.publicwhip/member/40307&showall=yes#divisions
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on August 25, 2011, 06:49:12 PM
Forgot this bit as well - very relevant

Requirement to consult communities before submitting very large
planning applications

To further strengthen the role of local communities in planning, the Bill will
introduce a new requirement for developers to consult local communities
before submitting planning applications for very large developments. This will
give local people a chance to comment when there is still genuine scope to
make changes to proposals. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 25, 2011, 06:51:06 PM
Thanks Mabel,interesting reading!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 25, 2011, 08:01:25 PM
I have to say I have very real concerns regarding the localism bill. For something that is supposed to help improve the planning system by giving further weight to the local voice, there is a real danger that it could morph into a NIMBY's charter.  

There is an awful lot of important infrastructure that needs to be delivered in this country (not supermarkets obviously)which is always the subject of 'not here, try somewhere else, as long as its not on my patch' resposes from local ation groups - often going against the needs and wishes of the wider community (eg: town, borough, county). The localism bill could really put the cat amongst the pigeons, and create major delay and confusion, after all what is local?

I know that the potential ramifications of the bill really worry local authorities, as we are probably about to enter some real unchartered planning territory, where a lot of early decisions are going to act as test cases for the rest of the country. Get ready for a great big mess, which I suspect is the sub-text of the SMBC's planners comments.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on August 25, 2011, 08:53:01 PM
Quote
I'm sure the college can become more efficient and create more income streams with a bit of thought, selling the land is an easy fix, using their assets more productively is more skilful. If the current guy doesn't have the financial background to pull it, there are plenty who can.
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 25, 2011, 08:58:40 PM
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!

Actually its niether a collage nor a school.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rotten john on August 25, 2011, 09:09:39 PM
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!

Actually its niether a collage nor a school.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
so what is it then harry,campus ? your gonna amaze me with a technical correct name for the said buildings on hibbert lane that EVERYONE calls the collage!,that used to be a school cant wait  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 25, 2011, 09:38:01 PM
hear hear !!! at last somebody else that i agree with.....ITS A COLLAGE it should stay as a COLLAGE or a school no ifs or buts!

Actually its niether a collage nor a school.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.
so what is it then harry,campus ? your gonna amaze me with a technical correct name for the said buildings on hibbert lane that EVERYONE calls the collage!,that used to be a school cant wait  ???

collage? 
noun
a technique of composing a work of art by pasting on a single surface various materials not normally associated with one another, as newspaper clippings, parts of photographs, theater tickets, and fragments of an envelope.

college
noun
an institution of higher learning, especially one providing a general or liberal arts education rather than technical or professional training.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 25, 2011, 09:44:02 PM
I should think the idea of multi level car parks is the way to go. This seems to have worked very well at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme.

I now I am going to sound really cheeky but I don't mean to, but I imagine you as being someone who has  just left school/ college  Do you shop in a supermarket ? silly question I know but I have just built up a picture of you  over time   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on August 25, 2011, 11:43:19 PM
firstly by way of background i lived in marple for 25 years and have lived elsewhere for as long but my family still live in the town so i have observed the "tesco" debate with interest and wanted to make some observations from an outside maybe more objective position
1 everyone agrees the coop is a very poor retail offer
2 everyone agrees most people are currently travelling out of marple for their primary convenience shopping
3 marple shopping centre has been getting worse for over a decade now with no sign of improvement
4 a lot of people refer to marple as a village ,it isnt itsa medium sized town ,it stopped being a village in the 60s 70s when all the housing estates were built ,this is very important as that rose coloured memory of a place long gone colours some peoples opinions and is backward looking not forward
5 there is no sequentially suitable site in the town closer than hibbert st for a superstore able to compete with the coop or to stop people driving out of town to shop,chadkirk st is far too small
 6 if the no camp succeed what is there vision for the town ,because the retail offer willcontinue to decline andso far all i have seen are lots of people claiming a superstore will be its death knell ,as an outsider believe me it looks like its doing a good job of dying without any help
7 marple has aeging population ,look at stocports bc website for some stats ,turning away asuperstore wont help reverse that
8 lastly ,beware an MP after votes ,andrew stunnell may make noises of support but remember he is a liberal mp in a coalition most liberal voters hate and with a small majority to defend AND he is a minister in eric pickles department which has published the most radical shake up proposals to planning for thelast 20 years and at the heart of the changes is the assumption that development should go ahead unless there are overwhelming reasons against and that economic development and jobs come first ,localism is a red herring and that includes retail development
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on August 26, 2011, 06:49:29 AM
1. Everyone in Marple? Evidence?
2. Ditto.
3. Marple shopping centre has undergone improvements in recent years and there is a good variety of shops.
4. Marple is often referred to as a village because that's what people do...it may no longer be the size of a village but it retains many of the elements of a village i.e. a close knit community, community events and festivals, many community groups and a lot of people of all ages who have grown up here and lived here all their lives. Referring to Marple as a village doesn't mean the people of Marple are "backward looking".
5. Hanbury's old site would be more than adequate for Marple's needs.
6. I have to disgree that Marple is "doing a good job of dying", perhaps you've been away too long. A visit on a sunny Saturday morning will show you just how "dying" Marple is! The precinct isn't simply a shopping centre it is also a sociable place where people meet and chat or sit outside and enjoy a coffee with friends.
7. Why would anyone want to reverse the numbers of older folk in Marple?
8. I'm not a political person but would agree that it is important to closely examine  the motivations of anyone with a possible political agenda in getting involved with our campaign.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 26, 2011, 08:34:59 AM
I should think the idea of multi level car parks is the way to go. This seems to have worked very well at Waitrose in Cheadle Hulme.

I now I am going to sound really cheeky but I don't mean to, but I imagine you as being someone who has  just left school/ college  Do you shop in a supermarket ? silly question I know but I have just built up a picture of you  over time   :-\

It seems like just a few months since I left school and college. Unfortunately, its nearly a lifetime ago.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 26, 2011, 02:22:23 PM
I can't agree with marplexile that the town is 'dying' - far from it: I've lived here for 27 years and the town and its shops are better now than at any time during that period.

However, in all other respects s/he is spot on. Sometimes you see things more clearly from further away!

As for our MP, he may or may not be re-elected next time, but his support for MIA is unlikely to have any bearing on that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 26, 2011, 02:24:18 PM
firstly by way of background i lived in marple for 25 years and have lived elsewhere for as long but my family still live in the town so i have observed the "tesco" debate with interest and wanted to make some observations from an outside maybe more objective position

 6 if the no camp succeed what is there vision for the town ,because the retail offer willcontinue to decline andso far all i have seen are lots of people claiming a superstore will be its death knell ,as an outsider believe me it looks like its doing a good job of dying without any help
7 marple has aeging population ,look at stocports bc website for some stats ,turning away asuperstore wont help reverse that
8 lastly ,beware an MP after votes ,andrew stunnell may make noises of support but remember he is a liberal mp in a coalition most liberal voters hate and with a small majority to defend AND he is a minister in eric pickles department which has published the most radical shake up proposals to planning for thelast 20 years and at the heart of the changes is the assumption that development should go ahead unless there are overwhelming reasons against and that economic development and jobs come first ,localism is a red herring and that includes retail development

Some sweeping generalisations amongst that,

6. Not really true, the retail offer in the town / village will thrive if the visitor numbers are high. As someone who has connections with a retail business who is considering opening a branch of her shop in Marple, I can assure you that if the numbers are right, new retails will come. A supermarket 1/2 mile up the road will not make those numbers look attractive.
7. Everyone ages, it's a fact of life. Whilst turning away a superstore will not reverse the aging process, I'm not aware that having one will.

8 I'm not sure Liberal voters hate them being in coalition, in fact, surely that is the best anyone who does not vote for the two dominant parties can hope for.  I voted Lib Dem this round and I was thrilled for them to hold the balance of power. Stunnell & Pickles are absolutely spot on, development should not be held back wherever possible, the fact Stunnell Understands that this would be a development that will cause more harm thatn good, I'd say that's what an MP iis supposed to do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 26, 2011, 02:25:03 PM
Sorry, I meant exmarpleite, not marplexile!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on August 26, 2011, 05:43:06 PM
a few more observations
1 an ageing population is bad it means you lose things like primary schools first  ! then secondary schools then pubs then restaurants then retailers and end up with a dead town marple has a very unbalanced population compared to the rest of stockport
2 everything you do say on here will be taken down and can be used against you in a planning enquiry,i would put good money that everything on here is being copied in offices in leeds ,welwyn garden city and holbourn and may be used by a foodstore to make their case ,i especially refer you to the endless slagging offs the coop is getting ,there are two things this governments  current planning policy is founded on and that is competition and jobs if you keep saying the coop is rubbish and expensive that makes the case for the need for competition ,if they can prove their 300 new jobs outweigh those that would be lost in smaller retailers and the coop they win that argument
3 sequential testing ,if the retailer makes his case as point 2 he then has to prove he has looked at all sequentially better sites ie ones closer to the town centre and none of them are suitable ,they will probably be able to argue without any problem that that means sites big enough to take a store at least the size of the coop not smaller otherwise that isnt competative ,i think unless you are going to sacrifice the rec the willows is the nearest suitable and avaliable site
4 it is not sustainable for 5'000 or however many journeys it is a week from marple to stockport or hazel grove etc to shop thats 5 miles each way x X000 journeys x52 weeks a year ,take all those journeys off the road and you make a strong enviromental case
remember people all 3 retailers in stockport and everywhere else know exactly how many times you shop there and again will use those statistics against you in an enquiry and as most of you are making those journeys every week you cannot argue against it
5 best guess is college will go to tender with foodstores in the autumn ,price will rocket above £12m if two or more of them want it £20m+ is easily acheivable ,stockport will refuse the applicationand it will go to enquiry ,start preparing your case now

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 26, 2011, 06:18:58 PM
a few more observations
1 an ageing population is bad it means you lose things like primary schools first  ! then secondary schools then pubs then restaurants then retailers and end up with a dead town marple has a very unbalanced population compared to the rest of stockport
2 everything you do say on here will be taken down and can be used against you in a planning enquiry,i would put good money that everything on here is being copied in offices in leeds ,welwyn garden city and holbourn and may be used by a foodstore to make their case ,i especially refer you to the endless slagging offs the coop is getting ,there are two things this governments  current planning policy is founded on and that is competition and jobs if you keep saying the coop is rubbish and expensive that makes the case for the need for competition ,if they can prove their 300 new jobs outweigh those that would be lost in smaller retailers and the coop they win that argument
3 sequential testing ,if the retailer makes his case as point 2 he then has to prove he has looked at all sequentially better sites ie ones closer to the town centre and none of them are suitable ,they will probably be able to argue without any problem that that means sites big enough to take a store at least the size of the coop not smaller otherwise that isnt competative ,i think unless you are going to sacrifice the rec the willows is the nearest suitable and avaliable site
4 it is not sustainable for 5'000 or however many journeys it is a week from marple to stockport or hazel grove etc to shop thats 5 miles each way x X000 journeys x52 weeks a year ,take all those journeys off the road and you make a strong enviromental case
remember people all 3 retailers in stockport and everywhere else know exactly how many times you shop there and again will use those statistics against you in an enquiry and as most of you are making those journeys every week you cannot argue against it
5 best guess is college will go to tender with foodstores in the autumn ,price will rocket above £12m if two or more of them want it £20m+ is easily acheivable ,stockport will refuse the applicationand it will go to enquiry ,start preparing your case now



Interesting points.

I think you are right in that to oppose the supermarkets effectively, we will have to  anticipate the arguments put forward by the supermarkets and counter them effectively.

Yes, the interested supermarkets are  likely to be monitoring what we're doing on this site & the MIA site. They are possibly going through Miss Marples bins as we type..

I think the argument of every Marple dweller having to drive out to a supermarket is pushing it a bit. I'll call into Aldi / Sainsbury on my way home if I need something but few people I wager will travel 5 miles to exclusively go to a supermarket, we're not that sad.

The aging population of Marple is a snapshot really. Where I grew up, many people moved to our town in the 50's as the local nucleur wepons employer expanded and the likes of my parents were tempted by exciting jobs etc. 10 years ago, whenever I went home, the place was quiet as the poulation had aged and everyone had retired.Now I go back and lots of young familiies have moved in becaus everyone you know, someday will die.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 26, 2011, 09:22:19 PM
I also think the supermarkets are very likely to look on this site and will know what arguments they need to get around. A quick google search easily finds this site.

Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.

I recently spoke to a couple about the potential supermarket and they said they and their friends wanted a supermarket as it is alright for those who have cars and can afford the Co-op/local shops but they cannot and so have to either struggle or rely on people for lifts to Asda/Tesco etc. Not everyone can afford the £5 a week online charge-and that is if they have a computer to start with and credit card etc. A view I have heard a few times is that the people with signs up agaisnst the supermarket have cars in theit driveways. The people may be middle aged or perceieved 'middle class'. A young couple with no car or no computer would be forced to pay over the odds at the Co-op or rely on family members for lifts. I have done it myself when I started out. When i was told to look at it this way i could see their point. How can this argument be countered as it seems to be the strongest one I am hearing and i am sure the supermarket will hear it too when they (IF they) do their surveys etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on August 26, 2011, 09:30:29 PM
here is something i dont understand ,when stockport  mbc "sold "the college did they impose restrictions on the resale on it and future uses for the land ,if not its either negligent of them or incompetant
duke sadly most people are sad and food shopping tends to be a dedicated trip ,however there is curiously a bright side to that in this if you will bear with me its a little complex
at the moment a lot ,we can argue how many ,people are doing their main food shopping outside marple ,from comments i have seen about the coop quite a lot ,therefore the trips they make to do that do not include any linked trips in marple ,rather they may link trips in stockport ,hazel grove ,hyde etc
i accept people who shop in the coop are likely to also shop elsewhere in marple as its so well located in the centre ,but as so many people dont like the coop there is probably a net loss to the town
now if a new superstore on hibbert lane draws a good percentage of those people going out of marple for their food shop back the question is will any or many or some of them also do other shopping in marple ,most people on here seeem to think not ,but if the nuber of returnee shoppers who then also shop in marple outnuber the loss of people at the coop the town has a net gain
i think the coop is so substandard and its offer so poor there is a reasonable prospect that a full blown superstore on hibbert will drAw back more people than the coop loses
the key in my argument is then to get as many of those people from hibbert lane in to the town centre ,improvements to footpaths ,free car parking in the centre etc
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on August 26, 2011, 10:08:08 PM
here is something i dont understand ,when stockport  mbc "sold "the college did they impose restrictions on the resale on it and future uses for the land ,if not its either negligent of them or incompetant

It was a national change, Act of Parliament.  Stockport MBC had no say in the matter.

Further and Higher Education Act 1992 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/13/part/I/chapter/II/crossheading/transfer-of-property-etc-to-further-education-corporations)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 26, 2011, 10:24:29 PM
Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.
I've just had a quick search on facebook for a group about wanting a tescos in marple, The only 2 I could find had, wait for it, An amazing 0 likes!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 26, 2011, 10:39:25 PM
Where did Tesco put the coaches on to go to   And just for the record ASDA is reported to be CAMSFC preferred choice, don't ask me why I don't know  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on August 26, 2011, 10:58:44 PM
Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.
I've just had a quick search on facebook for a group about wanting a tescos in marple, The only 2 I could find had, wait for it, An amazing 0 likes!



http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/groups/160277760718224/ (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/groups/160277760718224/)

and

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Yes-to-Supermarket-in-Marple/256280167727382 (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Yes-to-Supermarket-in-Marple/256280167727382)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 26, 2011, 11:01:37 PM
There's been a fair bit of grumbling about co-op being overpriced, poorly stocked etc.  On a positive note though, good to see they're promoting and help finance (https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-co-operative/were-backing-high-street-fund-following-riots-and-i-love-mcr/250008611700142) the "I Love MCR" campaign with a £100k donation.

Hope the Marple resident (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1457059_manchester-riots-shame-of-teenager-who-stole-booze) in court this week for participating in the Manchester riots was a co-op shopper.  :P

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 26, 2011, 11:20:04 PM
Where did Tesco put the coaches on to go to   And just for the record ASDA is reported to be CAMSFC preferred choice, don't ask me why I don't know  :-\

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019896/Englands-smallest-town-Manningtree-Essex-loses-3-year-battle-Tesco.html

The Manningtree4tesco website had reference to provided coaches possibly by Tesco.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Manningtree4Tesco/188236708933

I know it isn't Tesco for sure that may be the top bidder but it is interesting to look at what has happened elsewhere regardless of the actual supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 08:09:27 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with exmarpleite that if we get it right, a new supermarket on Hibbert Lane could give a massive boost to Marple. As we all know, a good proportion of the 23,000 of us who live here do our main supermarket shop elsewhere, and yes, I plead guilty too!

If we can reverse that flow, so that we residents do our 'big shop' here, and also attract new shoppers from neighbouring areas, I believe we could begin to witness a revitalised town centre. Yes, some businesses would close because they can't compete with Tesco/Asda, but others would open, attracted to the town by the increased 'footfall'.

And meanwhile, our kids and grandkids get the decent educational facilities which they need and deserve.

I believe that the MIA campaign is parochial and short-sighted, and not at all in the long-term interests of our community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 27, 2011, 08:34:09 AM
MIA are becoming Increasingly  concerned that when the land is sold to a supermarket the colleges long term plans are to take the money and run.  12 million pounds by today's standards is not a lot of money and the Buxton Lane development will require more investment than that .  At the Area Committee meeting MIA spoke about information which had come to light re CAMSFC disposing of the two sights ie HIBBERT Lane and Buxton Lane and purchasing somewhere like Jackson Lane. 
Always remember that this issue is more than just an issue of a supermarket , it's about the land at HIBBERT Lane and Buxton Lane  that was  gifted to the people of MARPLE and has  now become in the hands of a private company who will sell without ANY consultation, care or concern   That can not be right !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 08:43:18 AM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 27, 2011, 09:43:26 AM
Well  according to Councillor Bisphan it cost around 36 million for the Cheadle Development so this is where we are all starting to think the unthinkable that the college will take the monies from both sites and run.  It is also now becoming more than a rumour that MARPLE Hall is applying for Academy status and is now being spoken about by all elected parties.  So it's not really as it first seemed because MARPLE looks like it's going to be well and truly had over, by a private company.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 27, 2011, 09:46:11 AM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.
CAMSFC actually wanted 60 million originally, see Stockport Express : Cash for new college building withdrawn (http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1126132_cash_for_new_college_building_withdrawn), so they'll have to considerably scale back their development plans I guess.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!
Either that's speculation on your part, or you've got some well-placed inside knowledge Dave?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 10:12:39 AM
I have no connection with camsfc, but I did work at a college (not in this area) before I retired.

Although colleges of this sort are independent of local authorities, they are also highly regulated. Camsfc's funding, AFAIK, will be from two main sources: SMBC (for 16-18 year olds) and the Skills Funding Agency (for adult students). The funds will be per student enrolment, and will come with conditions attached, in the form of a Financial Memorandum. As 60 percent of the college's students come from Marple, the funders could (and almost certainly would) withdraw funding if the college were to move away. It's as simple as that!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 27, 2011, 10:32:38 AM
Another thing is that there is now a facebook group of people who want a supermarket in marple, over 120 people so far. It's likely that the supermarkets will pick up on this and compare it with those who don't want a supermarket, they could get their own petition. Recently an area was divided by a simelar issue and it appears that Tesco put on coaches etc for its supporters.
I've just had a quick search on facebook for a group about wanting a tescos in marple, The only 2 I could find had, wait for it, An amazing 0 likes!

As somebody above posted, there is at least one group with quite a few people in. One has over 120 as i said in my original post. Some of them seem to be inviting friends and may not be easily searchable but the other poster linked to it. It is interesting to note their arguments. I had a read through and the same themes are recurring such as it is alright for those who have the means to go out of town to say they don't want a supermarket but for the low income with no car etc. the possibility of a cheap supermarket (when they are already on the breadline) is welcome. People mention the fact there are not any cheap clothes shops in marple for example (I agree M&Co is expensive). How would this argument be countered as i am pretty sure it will be used in Asda's/Tesco's favour.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 10:46:59 AM
I have no connection with camsfc, but I did work at a college (not in this area) before I retired.

Although colleges of this sort are independent of local authorities, they are also highly regulated. Camsfc's funding, AFAIK, will be from two main sources: SMBC (for 16-18 year olds) and the Skills Funding Agency (for adult students). The funds will be per student enrolment, and will come with conditions attached, in the form of a Financial Memorandum. As 60 percent of the college's students come from Marple, the funders could (and almost certainly would) withdraw funding if the college were to move away. It's as simple as that!

Or not as simple as that.  If CAMSFC could realise £20+million from the sale of both sites, they could put forward a strong argument for relocation to a state of the art college, with the bonus of not having to borrow funds for the new development...the funding providers may well like the idea.  Re the enrollment figures, statistics can be manipulated as per necessary.  It's a possibility Dave and, as previously posted, unless you have some factual inside knowledge, you can't dismiss it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 27, 2011, 11:03:04 AM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.
CAMSFC actually wanted 60 million originally, see Stockport Express : Cash for new college building withdrawn (http://menmedia.co.uk/stockportexpress/news/s/1126132_cash_for_new_college_building_withdrawn), so they'll have to considerably scale back their development plans I guess.

They already have considerably scaled back their development plans. The original plan was to entirely redevelop the Hibbert Lane site, involving new buildings. The new plan is to add to Buxton Lane.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!
Either that's speculation on your part, or you've got some well-placed inside knowledge Dave?

CAMSFC have already stated that the revenue they receive from the sale of the Hibbert Lane site will be used to redevelop Buxton Lane. This new speculation is entirely fictional and intended merely to create FUD.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 11:15:53 AM

I think some may not take what CAMSFC says as gospel Harry, given their shenanigans over the Hibbert Lane site.  You may disagree but if MIA activists want to explore their intentions for the Buxton Lane site, they should certainly do so, if only to ensure that CAMSFC's intentions are fully transparent and open to scrutiny.  For those of us that disagree with a supermarket on Hibbert lane, and to be clear, I do oppose it, MIA are doing a fantastic job.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 27, 2011, 11:51:48 AM
CAMSFC have already stated that the revenue they receive from the sale of the Hibbert Lane site will be used to redevelop Buxton Lane. This new speculation is entirely fictional and intended merely to create FUD.

I'm only working from the latest-available minutes from the CAMSFC Estates committee, see copy of them here, on the College's site (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf).  

It's regrettable that the minutes for later meetings have not been published yet : their release would certainly reduce the opportunity for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt).

Quote from: CAMSFC Estates Committee Meeting 17th June 2010, published December 2010
There appeared  to be three clear avenues to follow in the short and long term, briefly summarised as:
  • Try to obtain planning consent for development at Cheadle.  The cost of planning consultants was estimated at £25 - £30 k, although this was subject to confirmation and had the potential to be more. A tender process would be involved.
  • Continue discussions with the Local Authority about the possibility of moving to a single site. The risk associated with moving to one site was that there could be a need to borrow significant amounts of additional funds.
  • Investigate options for the Marple campus. Initially any consultancy fees could be kept to a minimum.

Estates Committee agreed that the College should move forward in a way that did not prejudice the final view taken. Dialogue would continue with the Local Authority. The Corporation would need to be sure that all the proposed options were being reviewed thoroughly.

The Committee recommended for approval by Corporation that the Estates Strategy be progressed as detailed in the three options recommended by Principalship.
The recommendation of the Committee would be reported back to the consultants.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 12:30:36 PM
If we can reverse that flow, so that we residents do our 'big shop' here, and also attract new shoppers from neighbouring areas,

This suggests trips to the potential supermarket being done in cars.

but others would open, attracted to the town by the increased 'footfall'.

Therefore I don't think it's correct to suggest an increase in 'footfall' for the shops in the precinct.  I would imagine that any supermarket would restrict the time you could park up in their car park so it's just speculation that people would get in their car, drive in to Marple centre, and shop again. I think your post does suggest a big increase in traffic.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on August 27, 2011, 12:32:47 PM
I believe that the sizeable development at Aquinas cost around 15 million, so the college will be able to do quite a lot with 12 million at Buxton Lane. And if they need a bit more they should be able to borrow at faourable rates.

The danger of the college moving away from Marple is zero - I can't imagine where that nonsense came from!

The Aquinas development cost 42 million .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 27, 2011, 12:56:04 PM
Smithy 166 the reason why there was no likes, was because it was a closed group with invites only it has now been changed to a open group with you can click on like.
 We are sick of hearing the no to tesco and asda and feel that it needs to be said that you have no right in saying that all of marple don't want a supermarket. To have a fair point across on Saturday when you have been doing have your petition it would of been fair if you had had one for yes to supermarket to give it chance.

Just wondering how many that have said no to the supermarket actually shop in marple at the coop or do they go out of marple to do a big shop at that said shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 12:56:36 PM
Yes, it would mean more traffic in Marple, and there would inevitably need to be some road works to deal with that. On the other hand, there would be some easing of congestion elsewhere (Hazel Grove, Bredbury etc), as many of us will stop driving out of Marple to do our shopping.

Re the college's development plans, that's an interesting reminder above of the options which were considered by the college, and in particular that consolidation of the Cheadle and Marple campuses on to a single site seems to have been ruled out on cost grounds. The notion that the college may move away from Marple is a red herring!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 27, 2011, 01:07:20 PM
Amazon, thanks for the correction. I was told it was 15 million, but your sum seems much more likely!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 27, 2011, 01:10:39 PM
CAMSFC have already stated that the revenue they receive from the sale of the Hibbert Lane site will be used to redevelop Buxton Lane. This new speculation is entirely fictional and intended merely to create FUD.

I'm only working from the latest-available minutes from the CAMSFC Estates committee, see copy of them here, on the College's site (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf).  

It's regrettable that the minutes for later meetings have not been published yet : their release would certainly reduce the opportunity for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt).

Those minutes are over a year old.

Why not take heed of the statement issued by the Chair of Governors earlier this month, where he said 'There is no doubt that the Marple campus of Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College is in need of urgent investment and we must sell the land at Hibbert Lane to afford this investment'. There is no ambiguity there. They intend to sell Hibbert Lane in order to invest in Buxton Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 01:43:49 PM
Yes, it would mean more traffic in Marple, and there would inevitably need to be some road works to deal with that. On the other hand, there would be some easing of congestion elsewhere (Hazel Grove, Bredbury etc), as many of us will stop driving out of Marple to do our shopping.

So we should accept the proposed supermarket and traffic issues as we will be helping to address traffic elsewhere in Stockport?  Sorry, but accepting that there would be increased traffic, congestion, and therefore the associated problems of ratrunning etc and then justifying it because we would be easing traffic in other areas, just doesn't wash.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2011, 01:46:54 PM
To have a fair point across on Saturday when you have been doing have your petition it would of been fair if you had had one for yes to supermarket to give it chance.

Start a petition/campaign then, why should those opposed to the supermarket do the job of those in favour?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 27, 2011, 02:21:39 PM
I can't agree with marplexile that the town is 'dying' - far from it: I've lived here for 27 years and the town and its shops are better now than at any time during that period.

This comment, that Marple's shops are better now, got me thinking of all the shops that have disappeared. The ones that spring to mind, working from the west of the District Centre, are:

DownTown - cane furniture
Frank Hutchinsons - butcher
Stiffs - grocer & greengrocer
Joyce Gorman - dresses
Barrets - off license
Arnie's - hardware
Meakins - butcher
Fishmonger
J.H.Neal - greengrocer
Wrights - bakers
La Femme Chique - bridal gowns
West Coast Wines - off license
Chocolate Box - sweet shop
Marple Arch - furnishings
Mulligans - boxes, buckets, etc
Television & Radio shop
Artists supplies
M&S seconds - clothing
Hanburys
John's Super Save - discount toiletries
Sweet & Chocolate shop
Plan it travel - travel agent
First Choice Travel - travel agent
Clarks - shoes
Presents - glassware & ornaments
High Class shoes - shoes
Lighting shop
Gainsborough galleries - art & artist supplies

I'm sure I've missed quite a few, and these are probably not in the correct sequence. In some cases I can remember the shop but not its name.

What have we got to replace this lot? A few deli/cafes, pound shop, second hand shop and charity shops. And lots of empty shops.

When you look what we've lost, can anyone really say that its now better?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 27, 2011, 05:10:00 PM
I left the stall today at 2.30 pm  and we had even by that time collected over 700 signatures and people were still signing!  Not bad at all for a bank holiday weekend is it  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 27, 2011, 05:28:11 PM
Quote
a new supermarket on Hibbert Lane could give a massive boost to Marple. As we all know, a good proportion of the 23,000 of us who live here do our main supermarket shop elsewhere, and yes, I plead guilty too!

If we can reverse that flow, so that we residents do our 'big shop' here, and also attract new shoppers from neighbouring areas, I believe we could begin to witness a revitalised town centre. Yes, some businesses would close because they can't compete with Tesco/Asda, but others would open, attracted to the town by the increased 'footfall'.

This section of a post on this topic is contradictory. If people shop elsewhere because they cannot get what they want in Marple currently, why would they walk 400 to 500 yards to a more depleted central area to shop for goods or services they can't buy in a Tesco or Asda situated in Hibbert Lane? The only way that would work would be a smaller groceries only outlet situated in the town itself.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplenewbie on August 27, 2011, 06:09:55 PM
I left the stall today at 2.30 pm  and we had even by that time collected over 700 signatures and people were still signing!  Not bad at all for a bank holiday weekend is it  ???

700 that's brilliant! How many in total now?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplenewbie on August 27, 2011, 06:21:49 PM
To have a fair point across on Saturday when you have been doing have your petition it would of been fair if you had had one for yes to supermarket to give it chance.

Start a petition/campaign then, why should those opposed to the supermarket do the job of those in favour?

If there are people who are "pro" then it is only fair that they should organise their own campaign. If there are enough of them they shouldn't have any problems. Having spoken to several people locally I know that there are those who have previously been in favour of a new supermarket but who have changed their minds after having read the lealets and spoken to campaigners about the impact this would have on Marple. So the "pros" may need to get their skates on!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 27, 2011, 06:27:35 PM
700 that's brilliant! How many in total now?

It was actually 850 by the end of today, so ball-park figures are 3,850 plus 1,167 on-line (some of whom may also have signed the paper version).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 27, 2011, 08:13:16 PM
I heard today that the pro supemarket people on FaceBbook think that the Marple in action group are against another supermarket in Marple.Most people are not and agree the co-op is too expensive and needs competition.The posters say no to a supermarket on Hibbert Lane!!We don't want our town killing off with a huge supermarket.A new supermarket doen't need to be massive to give us better prices and more choice.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on August 27, 2011, 09:08:23 PM
i walked through Marple this afternoon and saw 3 people approached to sign who refused,  personally i dont mind the supermarket as its pros outweighs its cons, also i watched the protest march and recognised about 2 or 3 people that i knew,I  am Marple born and bred I work in Marple so why didn't I recognise anyone else Marple isn't the small village you keep making out.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moonforest on August 27, 2011, 09:28:16 PM
i walked through Marple this afternoon and saw 3 people approached to sign who refused,  personally i dont mind the supermarket as its pros outweighs its cons, also i watched the protest march and recognised about 2 or 3 people that i knew,I  am Marple born and bred I work in Marple so why didn't I recognise anyone else Marple isn't the small village you keep making out.

 You saw three people who refused vs the 860 have been more than happy to sign the petition today? Hardly a comparison. I collected some signatures today and was surprised by the number of people who visit Marple from other areas who emphatically do NOT want this development. I spoke to a couple from Hazel Grove who told me that they come here regularly because they like the shopping centre with all the different little shops and they talked at length about their dismay at the impact of having big supermarkets built in their area. I also spoke to people from High Lane and New Mills who felt equally as strongly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 27, 2011, 09:34:00 PM
i walked through Marple this afternoon and saw 3 people approached to sign who refused,  personally i dont mind the supermarket as its pros outweighs its cons, also i watched the protest march and recognised about 2 or 3 people that i knew,I  am Marple born and bred I work in Marple so why didn't I recognise anyone else Marple isn't the small village you keep making out.

I was on the march and I recognised dozens and I've only lived here 22 years. There were people I see at carnivals, food festivals and other local events, in pubs or just shopping in the town centre.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on August 27, 2011, 10:15:42 PM
Can Marple in Action say whether they value having the sixth-form college in Marple? Because, if they succeed in blocking the college's development and the college WERE to decide to consolidate on the Cheadle site instead then:
(a) Marple's 17- and 18-year-olds will have a very long way to travel; (a Marple-Hall sixth form isn't an option; they are at capacity already);
(b) all those pie and sandwich shops relying on student footfall during the week will lose it;
(c) you will have two sites on Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane left to the developers or just to rot.
Then MIA will very effectively have damaged the community, small businesses and Hibbert-Lane/Buxton-Lane environment that they apparently set out to protect.

Marple has a much larger population now than when the "Marple Centre" boundaries were drawn and the present co-op was built; there is no logic to trying to keep its total retail outlet to a 1950's size. An additional supermarket of comparable size to the college buildings on Hibbert Lane would not impinge on any of Marple's beautiful waterways or green spaces, would be closer to the geographic centre of the present-day residential housing, and would not in any way prevent people shopping, socialising or just enjoying a quiet cup of coffee in the existing precinct.

Alternatively, Marple could lose its 6th-form provision.


 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 27, 2011, 10:43:50 PM
Oh wouldn't it just be in the centre of residential housing?On two counts!Lyme Grove,Mount Drive,Hibbert Lane and Cotefield for one, and Buxton Lane, Peacefield, Cross Lane, Carver Road and once again Hibbert Lane on the second. Sorry if i've left any road out.Quite a way from Hollins Green Road wouldn't you say?I'm allright Jack,springs to mind. who would run a cafe/coffe shop on a dead street?Perhaps the colleges intentions were always to take the money and run?After all the principal who is selling is retiring soon,maybe to Stoke where I believe she lives or somewhere a little more exotic?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on August 27, 2011, 10:52:18 PM
Oh wouldn't it just be in the centre of residential housing?On two counts!Lyme Grove,Mount Drive,Hibbert Lane and Cotefield for one, and Buxton Lane, Peacefield, Cross Lane, Carver Road and once again Hibbert Lane on the second. Sorry if i've left any road out.Quite a way from Hollins Green Road wouldn't you say?I'm allright Jack,springs to mind. who would run a cafe/coffe shop on a dead street?Perhaps the colleges intentions were always to take the money and run?After all the principal who is selling is retiring soon,maybe to Stoke where I believe she lives or somewhere a little more exotic?

If my salary was over £100k plus a further £15k going into my pension pot each year on top of that, Stoke wouldn't be top of my retirement destination list  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 27, 2011, 11:07:09 PM
I was timed out on this one Neil as I was trying to modify.What I wanted to say was that whoever you are.Low income especially,middle income and high earners Dont suck up to them,letting them in is playing right in to their greedy,couldn't give a toss hands as they go home to their real mansions all over the world. The type not seen around these parts!Wake up and smell the coffee,be it instant or filter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 27, 2011, 11:19:49 PM
I heard today that the pro supemarket people on FaceBbook think that the Marple in action group are against another supermarket in Marple.Most people are not and agree the co-op is too expensive and needs competition.The posters say no to a supermarket on Hibbert Lane!!We don't want our town killing off with a huge supermarket.A new supermarket doen't need to be massive to give us better prices and more choice.

But many of them want exactly that if you read the posts and listen to those for a supermarket, a big supermarket where they can get electricals/clothes etc and not have to travel into Stockport etc. is what they want. A small one (perhaps more central) will still mean that the Co-op is the main supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 27, 2011, 11:51:50 PM
Yes JMC,If a successful competitor was to take root,the co-op could close,it has been known,then a major electrical store could move in.then perhaps a shoe shop,alternative clothes shop, we could have everything we need.But sadly the college could quite selfishly sell to a major supemarket planning permission agreed :'(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 28, 2011, 01:53:41 AM
Can Marple in Action say whether they value having the sixth-form college in Marple? Because, if they succeed in blocking the college's development and the college WERE to decide to consolidate on the Cheadle site instead then:
(a) Marple's 17- and 18-year-olds will have a very long way to travel; (a Marple-Hall sixth form isn't an option; they are at capacity already);
(b) all those pie and sandwich shops relying on student footfall during the week will lose it;
(c) you will have two sites on Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane left to the developers or just to rot.

Being as Your questions are about the "youth" of marple going to the marple college I feel I can answer, As I i'm presently a student of CAMSFC (just enrolled).

Answer to part A.
As far as i'm aware the cheadle campus is in no way large enough to accommodate the students on the Marple campuses. There are approximately 2,000 students on the Marple campus. as apposed to around 1,500 at cheadle. So the college would have to rebuild the cheadle site AGAIN to accommodate the extra students. And even if the college were to regenerate cheadle, they couldn't do it without first selling the Marple campus. Now, it doesn't take a genius to work out that if they were rebuilding cheadle, and had no Marple, there would be nowere for the students to be taught.

Answer to part B.
You are aware that the various food shops sell to people other than students from the college, right? From what I've seen the bulk of the students at the college use the on-site facilities when it comes to purchasing food, so even if the college were to go, the impact of those food shops would be minimal.

Answer to part C.
As I have stated before, the college would have to sell the land to a developer, not just leave it rotting, as they would require the funding to improve cheadle. So the sites would not just be "left to rot". And, in-case you haven't already noticed, the college is attempting to sell the hibbert lane site to developers anyway (technically), which basically makes your argument about leaving the sites to the developers null and void.

Apologises for the various spelling and grammatical errors, my hand are freezing, and as a result have seized up.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 28, 2011, 08:21:26 AM
Moorendman asks 'If people shop elsewhere because they cannot get what they want in Marple currently, why would they walk 400 to 500 yards to a more depleted central area to shop for goods or services they can't buy in a Tesco or Asda situated in Hibbert Lane?'

Let me try to explain how the numbers might work, and why I don't accept that the centre of the town would necessarily become 'depleted'.

We know from reports of the college's property consultant's findings, and indeed from our own intuition, that more Marple residents go elsewhere to do their supermarket shopping than do it in Marple. So purely for illustrative purposes, and using nice round numbers, let's assume that out of the 23,000 residents, there are 10,000 supermarket visits per week, and that of these, 4,000 are in Marple and 6,000 are elsewhere. And let's also assume that of the 4,000 visiting the Co-op, 25 percent (1,000) go to at least one other (local) shop on the same trip.

OK. Now if a new Tesco or Asda appears in Hibbert Lane, let's assume that two-thirds (4,000) of those currently shopping outside Marple shop at Hibbert Lane instead. And let's assume that the Co-op loses 50 percent (2,000) of its customers to the new supermarket. That's 6,000 customers per week at Tesco/Asda so far. On top of these, we need to add visiting shoppers from neighbouring areas (Romiley, Disley, New Mills, Offerton etc) - maybe 2,000 weekly? That produces 8,000 weekly shops in total at Hibbert Lane.

Now let's try to estimate 'spin-off shoppers' - those who visit at least one other (local) shop during their supermarket trip. We'va already assumed that 25 percent of Co-op shoppers may do this, so that produces 500 of the Co-op's depleted number of 2,000.  Now Hibbert Lane is a bit further from other shops than the Co-op is, so let's assume a cautious 10 percent (800) of Tesco/Asda shoppers also visit at least one local shop as well. That gives a weekly total of 1,300 'spin-off shoppers' in Marple - a 30 percent increase over the current estimate of 1,000.

This is all speculation, of course - just like almost everything else on this thread :D And all the above numbers are purely for illustration. But what I believe it shows is that although a new supermarket in Hibbert Lane would take some business away from other shops, this could be more tha offset by completely new business coming from people shopping in Marple who did not previously do so.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 28, 2011, 10:16:53 AM
This is all speculation, of course

This is the key part of your post Dave.  You state that the numbers are just for illustration,  but then you argue that your 'illustration' is somewhat of a case study for the positive impact of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
 
But what I believe it shows is that although a new supermarket in Hibbert Lane would take some business away from other shops, this could be more tha offset by completely new business coming from people shopping in Marple who did not previously do so.

It's entirely positive for us all to argue different points but the numbers you used are meaningless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on August 28, 2011, 10:52:45 AM
This is all speculation, of course........

But isn't that the point, nearly everything so far is speculation, including the chief concern of the destruction of the Marple community - a lot of the the No campaign seesm to be based on 'fear of the dark' i.e. this is new, therefore it must be bad. I'm still to be swayed, by either yes or no, because I still don't know what level of development we are looking at.

What I can say is that I personally do travel out of Marple for my weekly big shop and as a consequence don't use the local shops as much as I would probably like. If I could save my 20 minute car journey out of Marple and 20 minutes back, I would be much more inclined to nip to the butchers for some decent local meat, bakers for pies, etc as part of my bigger shop.......

Particularly if the new supermarket was an ASDA, as I would definitely want to use the Marple shops for a bit of quality!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 28, 2011, 11:31:14 AM
Yes JMC,If a successful competitor was to take root,the co-op could close,it has been known,then a major electrical store could move in.then perhaps a shoe shop,alternative clothes shop, we could have everything we need.But sadly the college could quite selfishly sell to a major supemarket planning permission agreed :'(

That is possible but then that scenario would involved job losses etc (if the Co-op closed). I don't think a major electric store would work in Marple, I see too many shops open and then close because the pattern of people's shopping has changed (internet, going into a large town with more choice etc.) Same with shoe shop etc. etc. In essence I think it is because they cannot compete in price and also because for many people a one stop shop is easier if they are busy working etc. I feel that is why many people want a big supermarket and not a Sainsbury's Local sized one. They want to be able to buy things in one place. Problem with that is that some shops will lose out if the items sold are alo cheaper which is inevitable with the major supermarket's buying power.


I do my main shopping outside of Marple, online shopping, but we top up in Marple and use many local shops. From my point of view things are fine as they are. But putting myself in the shoes of a young family on low income with no car/internet (which we were ourselves when we started out) it is quite difficult to do a weeks shop cheaply in marple compared to going to ASDA etc. For many of these people they have to rely on other people for a lift or a bus (with alot of bags that is a nightmare) and coule be more independant if a supermarket were here. I think we all need to see it from that angle too.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 11:53:04 AM
Hi Heather I was born and bred in MARPLE and I knew more or less everyone either personally or by sight .  What I do although find strange is  quite a few people on the yes face book page  have signed our petition against a major supermarket and a few on that site are personal friends of mine who have also signed the MIA against a supermarket petition and one person is the brother of one of the founder members of MIA.  But having said all that I do not know how face book works and it could just be an error but I hope I don't pop up on there lol  ;D
Seriously though,  I also think that we would all benefit from a smaller supermarket, but in the town centre, not in the middle of a residential area. MIA are not opposed to another supermarket in MARPLE we are opposed to where the proposed site will be.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 28, 2011, 12:09:25 PM
As I repeatedly emphasised, Steptoe, the numbers I used were purely for illustration. What matters is the underlying point: that the new Hibbert Lane supermarket could very well have a 'swings and roundabouts' effect on the other Marple shops. Some will close, but others will open in their place, because there could very well be a net increase in 'footfall' because overall there are likely to be more shoppers in Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 28, 2011, 02:12:20 PM
miss marple whats with the capitals, do you really need to do that?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 28, 2011, 03:57:11 PM
Just to also let you know that to have peoples names on the facbook group they would of had to join and put that they liked the idea of the supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 06:44:10 PM
miss Marple whats with the capitals, do you really need to do that?
Hi Susan no I don't need to put MARPLE or HIBBERT in capitals but for some reason best known to itself my iPad always turns those two words into capitals.  So this afternoon I have been practicing and guess what I now can write Marple and Hibbert like this.   I'm a twenty first century girl now !   lol  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
Just to also let you know that to have peoples names on the facbook group they would of had to join and put that they liked the idea of the supermarket.

Oh sorry must be my mistake I thought  someone had asked to be taken off the yes face book page but like I say I don't understand face book  :-\

The only thing I will say about that face book page is that you are making me more famous than I deserve lol.   I hope they have a good solicitor for when I sue for slander.  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 28, 2011, 07:19:56 PM
sorry miss marple but the only names metioned on there are david hoyle and that was just about a conversation that the bloke was having,  other than that there are no names metioned,

but you might be able to help us,apparently a lady was told this:- a lady was telling me that the sorting office is closing down and they was looking at sainsburys having it for a sainsburys local, but im not sure how true that is. Can you please tell us if its true or just whispers
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 10:02:13 PM
Latest FOI Response:
Link http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/80241/response/202061/attach/3/S45C%20211081518130.pdf)

Email from Paul Lawrence of SMBC to Christina (presumably Christina Cassidy, Principal of CAMSFC).

Here's a pic of the letter, for anyone without a PDF viewer.  Click on it for a larger view.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/6189/foiletter.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 28, 2011, 10:57:41 PM
The above was information we received from an Freedom of Information request.  It's  from Paul Lawrence Stockport Planning to the College.  As you can see there is an opportunity for a supermarket to be built on the Chadwick St sorting office site. 
What people must understand is that
The  land at Hibbert Lane was a gift for the people of Marple for education
The college is a private business nothing to do with the Local Authority
The college left applying for funding too late so now has to sell the Hibbert Lane site due to financial difficulties
The Buxton Lane site was also a gift for the people of Marple to be used for education
The long term future for our children is at risk if the college decide to sell both colleges and take the money and run ploughing into say the Jackson Lane School (which is now looking more than just a rumour )
The college is selling the land on Hibbert Lane for 12 Million which is a lot of money to me and you, but for the amount of improvements require at Buxton Lane it's a drop in the ocean which leads me to believe that once they sold the Hibbert Lane site Buxton Lane would be the next sale
There is also talk of Marple Hall becoming an academy which means that students will stay there until they are eighteen, leaving CAMSFC with a lower intake.
I have no business interests whatsoever, all I am interested in is the increased amount of traffic, which a supermarket of that size would bring.  Data obtained gives an indication  that a supermarket of that size would require. 100 cars per hour in and out which would total 200 per hour plus the additional lorries and associated service vehicles.  Our roads can not take this amount of traffic and I am fearful for our children's health with the additional pollution and road safety
So why would anyone want to see a private company sell the land that was given to us because the college mismanaged their finances.  If you or I were in debt I am flipping sure no one would bail us out, so why oh why should the college be allowed to profit from us.
The principals salary alone is around £120.000 , she lives in Stoke and none of the governors live local, so
it's  not really as simple as just saying we don't want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane it's about a private company taking the rip out of us and laughing all the way to the bank. 
Well if I can stop this private company taking the mickey out of us I will and it's up to you all to form your own opinions. But please before you do look at the evidence gathered so far and also take a look at the Tescopoly web site .


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 28, 2011, 11:24:50 PM
Miss M, you write 'The long term future for our children is at risk if the college decide to sell both colleges and take the money and run ploughing into say the Jackson Lane School (which is now looking more than just a rumour )'

This is a very serious allegation, which if true could have a profound effect on the education of our youngsters. If this improbable scenario really is 'more than just a rumour', it would be most helpful to all of us if you could give us the source of your information so that we can assess its reliability for ourselves.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 28, 2011, 11:59:22 PM
Dear miss marple

I understand completly that you have some very strong opinions, and although you do make some very fair points, there are always two sides to every argument, and it is now become a 2 sided argument. With people saying there will be alot more traffic, small businesses will close, more pollution etc ...and  then there are the people saying that there will be less  traffic due to the fact people can walk, and the traffic would be slightly reduced, people are saying they will still shop in the smaller shops due to the fact they like the quality, atmosphere, the price etc, and also there is pollution everywhere you go these days, we do not live in the hills, we live in a busy town so we are expected to surrounded by vehicles.
There are lots of different views, and i have listed a few below

I live on the main road and the amount of busses and HGVs that pass my house already does not affect me.
As for child safety, it is up to the parents to teach their children the green cross code....My son who has just turned 4 knows he should never cross the road without waiting for me, his father or the adult looking after him and he know we wait for the green man at the lights ...(even my  just turned 2 year old has grasped this). as they get older i will be teaching them about zebra crossings, and other safe ways to cross. unfortunatly there are the small minority out there who chose to ignore the green cross code and therefore thats when accidents happen. There is however, a pelican crossing on that road....right near the site....it is there for a purpose and it should be used.

I personally beleive marple would benefit from a supermarket....Not a giant one like the tesco in stockport or the asda in hyde, but a fairly sized one that could accomodate all the things people would need.
My husband and i are on a low income and have two young boys to care for...and after buying essensials for them (nappies, wipes, special milk for my lactose/soya intolerant son...which costs £10 alone) there doesnt seem to be enough money left to do a full weeks shop in the co-op.
We do like to get our meat from the butchers, but we can only afford to get this once a month to last a few meals, we get our frozen and milk in iceland as its still cheaper than the co-op, but then we either have to put the burden on family and friends to take us to the supermarket or get as much as we possibly can with the money we have left in the co-op.

I beleive that the people of marple should be able to have a choice about where we shop, seeing as we get a choice with hairdressers, cafes, public houses, fruit and veg shops, butchers etc.

Like i said there are always Two sides to every story and all those petitioning against the supermarket will have a view of their own.....but i bet alot of them will get at least 1 item from the supermarket if it were to come to marple.

Applologies for any spelling mistakes, i am very tired and have been waiting for admin to approve me onto this site so i could voice my opinion.

Oh  and as you are now aware, facebook has a page, and a group. I was the Original Creator of the group, and i am admin on the page....the reason i set those up was to hear views of people who are FOR the supermarket, as all i was hearing and seeing was 'NO'. I thought id would be nice to hear some yes opinions and why people are in favor. it has been a hit so far (obviously not as big as the no campaign) but it is early days, and i hope to hear some varied views from both sides of this campaign.....that way people can have a choice on what they would like to vote for. These pages were not set up to slag anyone off...and if anything is seen it will be removed, as it there to show that there is a side of marple that DO want the supermarket  :)

Pink text changed to default colour. Admin
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 12:07:34 AM
can we please use non-coloured fonts?
I can't read what you've typed, so i've translated it here :

Pink text changed to default in original post so quote removed. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 12:11:11 AM
Thank you...That was a mistake on my account....i didnt think the pink would be that pale....  will not be using it again lol
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on August 29, 2011, 08:42:06 AM
Well said mum of two, i am all for it,even though i live in Dukinfield and before you all jump on me for that, My family live in Marple and i still do my shopping in marple at Icelands and Wilsons.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on August 29, 2011, 09:25:24 AM
It's good to see some of the new people here who are now voicing their opinion. Healthy debate is good for all.

I think one of the things that people need to remember is that the Marple in Action group are NOT opposed to a new supermarket. they ARE opposed to it being built on the Hibbert Lane site. It is not approved for retail development, only housing development.

Personally, I don't mind another supermarket to give the co-op some competition and to help bring their prices down. Good local shops will survive. The quality of service and produce you get from (for example) Whites & Archers is something that a supermarket will not match.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:22:46 AM
It's good to see some of the new people here who are now voicing their opinion. Healthy debate is good for all.

I think one of the things that people need to remember is that the Marple in Action group are NOT opposed to a new supermarket. they ARE opposed to it being built on the Hibbert Lane site. It is not approved for retail development, only housing development.

Personally, I don't mind another supermarket to give the co-op some competition and to help bring their prices down. Good local shops will survive. The quality of service and produce you get from (for example) Whites & Archers is something that a supermarket will not match.

The thing is, nomatter where the supermarket is built, there will always be people objecting to the same topics they are objecting about now (more traffic, pollution etc)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 11:01:09 AM
We have now got a copy of the TV coverage of the March last Sat and it is hoped that it can be linked to this site, well I hope so , I am sure someone could do this.  WHAT A TEAM !!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on August 29, 2011, 11:10:42 AM
It's good to see some of the new people here who are now voicing their opinion. Healthy debate is good for all.

I think one of the things that people need to remember is that the Marple in Action group are NOT opposed to a new supermarket. they ARE opposed to it being built on the Hibbert Lane site. It is not approved for retail development, only housing development.

Personally, I don't mind another supermarket to give the co-op some competition and to help bring their prices down. Good local shops will survive. The quality of service and produce you get from (for example) Whites & Archers is something that a supermarket will not match.

The thing is, nomatter where the supermarket is built, there will always be people objecting to the same topics they are objecting about now (more traffic, pollution etc)



I have to agree,  some of the main arguments are the extra traffic, pollution and loss of shops. So if a supermarket comes to Marple... lets say for example the council sells the 'reck' at arkwright rd and tesco/asda build there... are you all saying you will be happy with that and no protests, petitions etc etc???  I doubt it because the same would be a issue to you.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 11:17:20 AM
Forgot to mention !   Lots of people were asking to purchase t shirts on Sat but we have run out  :'(.    Good news is we have had more printed and they will be on the stall this Sat  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 29, 2011, 11:17:42 AM
As I repeatedly emphasised, Steptoe, the numbers I used were purely for illustration. What matters is the underlying point: that the new Hibbert Lane supermarket could very well have a 'swings and roundabouts' effect on the other Marple shops. Some will close, but others will open in their place, because there could very well be a net increase in 'footfall' because overall there are likely to be more shoppers in Marple.

Dave, you have hit the nail on the head.  In your opinion, there 'could very well be' an increase in shoppers, however, there 'could very well be' a decrease, that's the sum of it.  To use figures in a lengthy post looks to me as if you are trying to legitimise what was, and remains, pure speculation.   As stated, the numbers are meaningless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:22:40 AM
I would like to add to that by saying that in my opinion, people who have cars add to traffic and position so It is so hypocritical of anyone who drives to complain about that.
Also do not believe that small bussiness will be greatly affected. I know that I will continue to support the shops I already support, the only place that will be losing my custom is co op. This is the same for many other people I have spoken to.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:24:42 AM
*polution not position
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 11:57:05 AM
*polution not position

MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 29, 2011, 12:23:13 PM
I have said on several posts that we need to see all sides so it is good that new people have joined. I myself am still making my mind up in many ways. My main concerns are traffic etc. But i am thus far not involved with any campaign etc. There is a big group of people in the middle who are not sure either way or don't want to be identified on either 'side' as they have friends who own shops etc and don't want to fall out!

I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it. I am lucky that i can afford online shopping now but before that I had to rely on family etc. for lifts, I would have much preferred a cheaper local shop as hated being a burden on people. Iceland is good but you can't get everything there like you could in Asda etc. That's why the campaign can look hypocritical if those on the march etc. are older people who have cars (this is the comments I have heard from friends etc.) and can afford to choose to go to other areas to Tesco etc but are 'stopping' those who can't from having a cheaper food shop. With the economy etc., more people are on a budget. Saving £20 can mean being able to use the heating or a child being able to have hot dinners etc.

Another thing is that Tina made a good point. Some people are against any supermarket and have said we have enough shops, the Co-op is great etc etc. Local store owners would probably also object to a store opening on chadwick street or anywhere else. It would still potentially cause traffic and put other shops out of business. What if a Poundland etc. wanted to open? That could put alot of shops out of business. I understand people want to keep Marple as it is but sadly the economy has changed immeasurably and most people do shop at a supermarket outside of their local independant shops. However, people do top up in their local village and many older people also prefer to carry on shopping there as well as those with the choice/money to do so so there is still plenty of scope for a thriving precient.

The hazel grove message board have been talking about this issue and many were calling Marple people hypocrites for being happy to use hazel grove superstores (and so not helping marple shops) but not wanting one in their back yard.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on August 29, 2011, 12:40:12 PM
good points there JMC .

wage increases do not reflect the cost of living, our weekly shop costs us a small fortune, I did a well known supermarkets price challenge , and my weekly shop was £16.00 cheaper than in Sainsburys,  £11 pounds cheaper than Morrisons , so goodness knows how much cheaper than the Co Op it would be .  £16 pounds a week over a month is a lot of money to me .

I did mention that it would be good if the co op was taken over, but this was met by one person suggesting that a much cheaper supermarket  would put the small shops out of business too because they couldnt compete ? ( just one persons opinion I know, but I can see thier point ) .

I have not signed any petition for or against  because of where I am employed  it is not in my interest ,   BUT if there was a supermarket to be built behind my house, I would be upset about it , I love where I live, and I love what is behind my house  , and if this is possible at the college site when documentation clearly shows it should not be used for this purpose, then really it could happen anywhere :(




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 01:11:35 PM
I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it.

Well, the Greengocers sell free-range eggs at 80p per half dozen cheaper than Tesco & Sainsbury. Bread at Archers is better value than Tesco. Iceland sells a wide range of frozen food cheaper than Tesco, the Greengrocers have cheaper prices & far fresher produce than Tesco so it lasts longer. The Pound plus shop sells lots of cheaper things than Tesco. Bargain Booze has some great beer offers. THe Butchers are far fresher & better value than Tesco.

point countered
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 29, 2011, 01:22:50 PM
I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it.

Well, the Greengocers sell free-range eggs at 80p per half dozen cheaper than Tesco & Sainsbury. Bread at Archers is better value than Tesco. Iceland sells a wide range of frozen food cheaper than Tesco, the Greengrocers have cheaper prices & far fresher produce than Tesco so it lasts longer. The Pound plus shop sells lots of cheaper things than Tesco. Bargain Booze has some great beer offers. THe Butchers are far fresher & better value than Tesco.

point countered

I don't think so. I have several children including a toddler and dragging them/him round all those shops would be a sheer nightmare! You are also assuming we all have cars to carry it all home or the time to do several trips? Much easier to do it all in one place especially if you have food allergies etc, do they do gluten free bread cheaply at archers? Is it easily accessible? One size does not fit all so your point doesn't counter the argument whatsoever I am afraid.  Also dual income families don't have the luxury of a whole day to do their shopping. Pound plus is not really cheap at all but I guess price is relative depending on your income. Iceland is good but mostly junk/high fat foods-no gluten free range etc.

Also, if as you say everything is cheaper in marple, then why would a new supermarket be a threat? That doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 01:45:24 PM
I have said on several posts on this thread that we need to see it from the point of view of people who can't afford to go out of town for their shopping. Nobody has really replied to it.

Well, the Greengocers sell free-range eggs at 80p per half dozen cheaper than Tesco & Sainsbury. Bread at Archers is better value than Tesco. Iceland sells a wide range of frozen food cheaper than Tesco, the Greengrocers have cheaper prices & far fresher produce than Tesco so it lasts longer. The Pound plus shop sells lots of cheaper things than Tesco. Bargain Booze has some great beer offers. THe Butchers are far fresher & better value than Tesco.

point countered

I don't think so. I have several children including a toddler and dragging them/him round all those shops would be a sheer nightmare! You are also assuming we all have cars to carry it all home or the time to do several trips? Much easier to do it all in one place especially if you have food allergies etc, do they do gluten free bread cheaply at archers? Is it easily accessible? One size does not fit all so your point doesn't counter the argument whatsoever I am afraid.  Also dual income families don't have the luxury of a whole day to do their shopping. Pound plus is not really cheap at all but I guess price is relative depending on your income. Iceland is good but mostly junk/high fat foods-no gluten free range etc.

Also, if as you say everything is cheaper in marple, then why would a new supermarket be a threat? That doesn't make sense.

It depends where you live, the walk from Poundplus via Iceland to Archers is no further than a lap around Tesco. Then it's the walk home which, as I say, depends on where you live.

I've no idea about gluton-free bread, how much is it in Co-op / Archers v Tesco? Is it not available?

I agree that Marple traders need to have a flexible trading hours policy, late-night Thursday etc.

As for why a supermarket is a threat. It's all about perception & laziness (as you've touched on). People are getting lazier & lazier and they are passing this onto their kids. If they can park in their parent & child spot outside the front door, they will. It's no wonder that kids are so obese. The first thing I'd do give car parks a tax break for putting parent & child spots at the furthest point away from the entrance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 01:52:28 PM
We have now got a copy of the TV coverage of the March last Sat and it is hoped that it can be linked to this site, well I hope so , I am sure someone could do this.  WHAT A TEAM !!!!!
Before you upload the footage to youtube or publish it make sure that the broadcaster has given you permission to use it, they can sometimes be a little "touchy" about things like that :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 02:08:59 PM
More graffite has appeared on the side of the shop facing Littlewoods Butchers saying Vote Tesco ? The fools don't even know that the college preferred favourite is Asda who also came first in the second round of bids.  I hope these people understand that removing this costs them money by way of additional community charges Doh !   The police made it very clear at the area committee meeting that when they find who is doing this they are going to apply the maximum charges! So a supermarket coming or not coming to MARPLE may just be something they read about in their prison cell  :D.  So here's hoping they are caught soon  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 29, 2011, 02:09:29 PM
MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....

Your post has not gone anywhere: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3735.msg17390#msg17390

Posts are not usually deleted unless they are offensive or personal attacks on others. These are usually replaced with an explanation, or the poster is PM'd. Posts can be hard to find again when the forum is so busy that is all that has happened to yours.

I'm not going to answer your question in full because it has been said over and over. Others can do that if they wish and it would be worth some of you meeting with Miss M. But, if it wasn't for Marple in Action you wouldn't have known about it until there were notices on lamposts around the Hibbert Lane site. The college have been conducting negotiations in secret (for years). They have forbidden employees to talk about what is happening and their supermarket planning advisers have told them that despite the site not being designated for retail that they would win at appeal as they are not breaking planning law. All these things are facts and Miss M will be able to show you evidence that the college has insisted that we remove from this site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 02:15:57 PM
*polution not position

MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....

Because it's a private deal. I can buy your house with the intention of building a multi-story car park on it. I will apply for planning permission and see what happens. It doesn't mean you are not allowed to sell to me.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on August 29, 2011, 03:07:20 PM
Dave wrote:

Quote
Now let's try to estimate 'spin-off shoppers' - those who visit at least one other (local) shop during their supermarket trip. We'va already assumed that 25 percent of Co-op shoppers may do this, so that produces 500 of the Co-op's depleted number of 2,000.  Now Hibbert Lane is a bit further from other shops than the Co-op is, so let's assume a cautious 10 percent (800) of Tesco/Asda shoppers also visit at least one local shop as well. That gives a weekly total of 1,300 'spin-off shoppers' in Marple - a 30 percent increase over the current estimate of 1,000.

This is all speculation, of course - just like almost everything else on this thread Cheesy And all the above numbers are purely for illustration. But what I believe it shows is that although a new supermarket in Hibbert Lane would take some business away from other shops, this could be more tha offset by completely new business coming from people shopping in Marple who did not previously do so.

There are lots of assumptions in your numbers Dave that simply do not stack up and whilst its tempting to dismantle them step by step , it is perhaps more useful to challenge some of the overall assumptions:

The key question is why does anyone buy goods and services from shops in Marple anyway? It is because they can't buy them at the Coop or they prefer not to make the longer journey to a larger supermarket for reasons of economy (petrol) or time. Only the very committed eschew the lures of a weekly shop at a Tesco/Asda/Sainsbury's on principle alone, most of us are guilty in some way. But there are a significant number that feel that independent shops need supporting and recognise that fatal damage is done to towns and villages is done by the big four supermarkets in particular.

Ask yourself where would a Marple food festival be without independents? Or would you prefer to enjoy a few scraps from the deli counter in a Tesco? When was the last time you recognised more than one or two faces in a superstore and when the last time you had any sort of casual conversation with another shopper? Compare and contrast that to walking around Marple.

One of the significant omissions from your analysis is the numbers of people who buy stuff in Marple from one shop when their initial destination was another shop (Excluding the Coop or any future Hibbert Lane Supermarket). For example , I go to Marple to buy some seeds from Hollins, While I am there , I buy some plant pots perhaps and then pick up some lamb chops from Whites. May as well buy a magazine from the Newsagents too and a birthday card for Auntie Christine and so it goes. By your own admission, shops will close with the arrival of any large supermarket and therefore this dynamic of one shop sale generating another sale will certainly diminish as there would be fewer shops. If I ran a bakers, newsagents, greengrocer, off licence and small electrical goods supplier in Marple I would be feeling very threatened.

Two further rhetorical questions for you Dave. Firstly what new shops do you really believe would come to Marple, bearing in mind that smaller shops are suffering loss of trade from superstores 5 or 6 miles away anyway? Secondly  if you believe that new retailers would open, would you not expect that view to be supported by a more postive attitude from the existing community of independent retailers in Marple to the potential arrival of a Tesco or Asda? I would challenge you to find a single one that would agree with your view!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 03:14:10 PM
MY comment i wrote before seems to have disappeared.....i will ask again

If the land on hibbert lane is only for residential building then how have the supermarkets been able to get this far with bidding?
If my post disappears again i know there is something being hidden from us....

Your post has not gone anywhere: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3735.msg17390#msg17390

Posts are not usually deleted unless they are offensive or personal attacks on others. These are usually replaced with an explanation, or the poster is PM'd. Posts can be hard to find again when the forum is so busy that is all that has happened to yours.

I'm not going to answer your question in full because it has been said over and over. Others can do that if they wish and it would be worth some of you meeting with Miss M. But, if it wasn't for Marple in Action you wouldn't have known about it until there were notices on lamposts around the Hibbert Lane site. The college have been conducting negotiations in secret (for years). They have forbidden employees to talk about what is happening and their supermarket planning advisers have told them that despite the site not being designated for retail that they would win at appeal as they are not breaking planning law. All these things are facts and Miss M will be able to show you evidence that the college has insisted that we remove from this site.

I know you say i would not have heard about it until the posters etc....but this has been rumoured for a few years now....looks like the rumours were true. If tesco/asda were to buy the land and they are declined planning permission...what happens then as all this anti-supermarket and pro-supermarket campaigning would all be for nothing...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 29, 2011, 03:48:31 PM
I know you say i would not have heard about it until the posters etc....but this has been rumoured for a few years now....looks like the rumours were true. If tesco/asda were to buy the land and they are declined planning permission...what happens then as all this anti-supermarket and pro-supermarket campaigning would all be for nothing...

The college have told MiA that they will be applying for the planning permission themselves and the supermarket offers are conditional on permission being granted. It is understood that planning permission for the Buxton Lane site is also tied up with this somehow - it would be no good if they could build a supermarket but not extend the college I suppose - but the detail of these arrangements is only fully known by the college. The objective of the MiA campaign at this stage is to get the college to change its mind and find other ways to support the development of their facilities - similar to Andrew Stunell MP and some of the LimDems Councillors, who are putting it more politely by saying the the college needs to "think again".

If planning permission is refused at appeal then the MiA objectives will have been achieved but it would be better from the MiA point of view if the plans were not submitted in the first place.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 05:09:54 PM
Hi Mum of 2 I am more than willing to meet with you and explain where we are to date.  What would be useful is if you read the Tescopoly web site and you will see what bullies supermarkets can be with SMBC planners.  Tesco lost it's battle to Poynton and a Waitrose was built, but I was informed on Sat that the Waitrose is built on the land that Tesco own, which they purchased without planning, so now they will just be waiting to come in for the kill.  Another thing Tesco are guilty of is purchasing land without planning permission, leaving it to rot for example turning it into a free carpark not maintaining it until residents are demanding something is done with the land, then they build.  All the stuff is on the thread under Asda / Tesco
I would suggest that if you are leading a campain for a supermarket on Hibbert  Lane that you bring yourself up to speed with everything, because it's a big responsibility informing people so that they can have an informed choice because once it's done no one can turn the clock back.  But having said all that I think it's fantastic that we live a democracy and are allowed to voice our opinions, so good luck in your campaign because believe me it's hard work . MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 05:23:09 PM
Hi Mum of 2 I am more than willing to meet with you and explain where we are to date.  What would be useful is if you read the Tescopoly web site and you will see what bullies supermarkets can be with SMBC planners.  Tesco lost it's battle to Poynton and a Waitrose was built, but I was informed on Sat that the Waitrose is built on the land that Tesco own, which they purchased without planning, so now they will just be waiting to come in for the kill.  Another thing Tesco are guilty of is purchasing land without planning permission, leaving it to rot for example turning it into a free carpark not maintaining it until residents are demanding something is done with the land, then they build. 


Miss M, this has to be fair enough. If the people of Poynton are snobby enough to accept a Waitrose & not a Tesco, surely it's not wrong if Tesco decide to not renew the lease for Waitrose & take over the store?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 08:04:53 PM
Hi Mum of 2 I am more than willing to meet with you and explain where we are to date.  What would be useful is if you read the Tescopoly web site and you will see what bullies supermarkets can be with SMBC planners.  Tesco lost it's battle to Poynton and a Waitrose was built, but I was informed on Sat that the Waitrose is built on the land that Tesco own, which they purchased without planning, so now they will just be waiting to come in for the kill.  Another thing Tesco are guilty of is purchasing land without planning permission, leaving it to rot for example turning it into a free carpark not maintaining it until residents are demanding something is done with the land, then they build.  All the stuff is on the thread under Asda / Tesco
I would suggest that if you are leading a campain for a supermarket on Hibbert  Lane that you bring yourself up to speed with everything, because it's a big responsibility informing people so that they can have an informed choice because once it's done no one can turn the clock back.  But having said all that I think it's fantastic that we live a democracy and are allowed to voice our opinions, so good luck in your campaign because believe me it's hard work . MM
Dear MM
At the moment we are still in talks of a campaign as there has been alot of information we have now discovered (mainly from this site) we understand how your views about the supermarket may or may not affect marple, and all the information you have got your hands on. My facebook page was set up to let people voice their opinions on why they thought it would be a good idea. It was never met to become a campaign (at first) and then things progressed and there were talks of a campaign yes but it is not final. It wold be niceto meet to share our opinions (which i think we already know lol) and you could show us with information you have.
Right now i am unsure as to whether a campaign due to the fact that if tesco/asda do buy the land and do not get permission to bulid.....it would just be a waste of our time....you on the other hand would get what you campaigned for.
If however they do get permission....we get what we want without a big campaign.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 09:36:06 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 29, 2011, 10:00:20 PM
I have read on the latest facts ( Work starts on Buxton Lane )that residents have reported that surveyors are at work.Does anybody  know if anyone asked what they were doing?I would! They could be surveying how many houses they can build on there.Lets face  it £12 million wont pay for a whole new college extention.But £12 million from the Hibbert Lane site plus a sizeable amount from the sale of Buxton Lane site could pay for a large extention to an existing out of area college.Just a thought,things don't add up or do they?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:06:19 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???


Firstly miss marple, the people of the 'yes to the supermarket campaign, want a supermarket either on hibbert lane (which seems the most likely place right now), we only want one big enough to do a family shop...and not a tesco/asda local. We do not want a tesco extra like the one in portwood....as we all know that marple is too small for a super store like that.
The People of the MIA need to understand that 'yes to the supermarket' is only at the 1st stages of our campaign, gathering information, giving opinions and in talks of what to do.....we do not mean to confuse anyone....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 10:11:21 PM
From what I can gather from my "interseting" conversation I've had with them on there facebook page (other than they like swearing, alot) the campagin seems to be based on the Co-op's pricing, and the "lack of choice in local shops". They also mentioned something about not being able to get to somewhere cheaper, which is fair enough, but if you have the internet why not internet shop? You get free delivery with some places to!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:13:49 PM
From what I can gather from my "interseting" conversation I've had with them on there facebook page (other than they like swearing, alot) the campagin seems to be based on the Co-op's pricing, and the "lack of choice in local shops". They also mentioned something about not being able to get to somewhere cheaper, which is fair enough, but if you have the internet why not internet shop? You get free delivery with some places to!

Some shops have a certain minimum you have to spend before you can get delivery (up to £5 delivery charge)...take asda for example....you have to spend a minimum of £25 online.....what if people only have £20 spare?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 10:21:08 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???


This next comment has been copied by someone who is STILL waiting to get onto this site.....he writes...

"Miss Marple, please point us in the direction of the evidence for the Tesco Extra, or Asda Supercentre which is supposedly being planned on the site.

We are working on a statement to summarise the Yes campaign and it will be a quite different statement from MIA's one in that it will not be based on crystal ball gazing".



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 10:21:45 PM
I don't understand the Yes to a Supermarket  campaign it's very confusing, do they want just another supermarket anywhere in MARPLE  or a Tesco Extra type store on HIBBERT lane, they  need to be  clear and not confuse  the community.  MIA always gives a clear message which is we do not want a supermarket of that size built on the Hibbert  Lane site    Can anyone explain what it's about  ???

There is not much to understand really. We would like a supermarket on Hibbert Lane. We all have similar reasons why we would like this to go ahead but I cant speak for everyone who has joined the facebook page.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 29, 2011, 10:39:41 PM

This next comment has been copied by someone who is STILL waiting to get onto this site.....he writes...

"Miss Marple, please point us in the direction of the evidence for the Tesco Extra, or Asda Supercentre which is supposedly being planned on the site.

We are working on a statement to summarise the Yes campaign and it will be a quite different statement from MIA's one in that it will not be based on crystal ball gazing".




[/quote] I can only presume that the buyer wouldn't spend all that money on a huge site if they didn't want to build a huge store. what would be the point?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 10:49:22 PM
The interesting thing is that someone stated that the "yes" campaign wasn't actually a campaign, and yet some people say it is? I'm just confused now.
I must agree with you Trixie, It does seem a bit odd, why would tescos/asda shed out 12 million for a huge site, if they were only going to build a titchy thing on it? I smell foul play!
Another interesting thing is that the "yes" campaigners appear to be adamant that tesco is going to be built, Seems a Little fishy. But as usual I have nothing to base anything I have said here on, apart from my own thoughts that are not in any way influenced by fact or fiction.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 10:52:52 PM
I think maybe you are reading too much into it. Some people want to do more that others to help but our only aim really is to let it be heard that we do want this to happen. You all seem so confused by the fact that some people have different opionions, and go about things in different ways.

You should really stop reading in to it and stick to your own cause.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 10:54:43 PM
I think maybe you are reading too much into it. Some people want to do more that others to help but our only aim really is to let it be heard that we do want this to happen. You all seem so confused by the fact that some people have different opionions, and go about things in different ways.

You should really stop reading in to it and stick to your own cause.
This is my cause, As this proposed development would directly impact me in a negative manner.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 10:56:48 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 10:59:25 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?
I'm not speculating about how it was formed or why. I'm just stating that some people say its a campaign and some people say it isn't.
Now, At the risk of causing a "firestorm" on this thread I think we should leave this particular subject rest and move onto something else.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 11:08:35 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 29, 2011, 11:09:56 PM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 11:16:39 PM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.

You said before, you an't walk and don't have a car. If you get the bus from one end of marple to another it's £1.25 each way. You say you take all your kids shopping so that must be 60p each on top so if you get a delivery, you have saved £2.50 for yourself & £1.20 for each offspring. Your marginal cost for delivery can be as little as 30p assuming you only have one child, if you have more than one, you are in the money.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:22:15 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?

Why 'must' we support one supermarket over another?? We all have our preferences. We are not all one person with one view.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 11:25:21 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?

Why 'must' we support one supermarket over another?? We all have our preferences. We are not all one person with one view.
You got yourself in a bit of a twist there.
You are (all the YES campaigners) Fighting one view, and thats seeing that the supermarket is built, come hell or high water!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:28:25 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 29, 2011, 11:31:21 PM
Sareena do you live on Hibbert lane?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 29, 2011, 11:33:53 PM
But how is speculating about how our group has formed and what we are about. How does that help?

Can I ask, what the aim of your group is? You must support one supermarket over another. Those who don't like the Co-op's prices are not going to like Tesco's are they?

Why 'must' we support one supermarket over another?? We all have our preferences. We are not all one person with one view.

So your gripe with the Co-op / local traders is not just their prices?

Can I ask what else is involved
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 11:37:04 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
"come hell or high water" is an expression, it means that you will stop at nothing to ensure that you get what you want. For example, some people in the MIA ranks will make sure that the supermarket is not built, come hell or high water!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 29, 2011, 11:39:03 PM
I have read on the latest facts ( Work starts on Buxton Lane )that residents have reported that surveyors are at work.Does anybody  know if anyone asked what they were doing?I would! They could be surveying how many houses they can build on there.Lets face  it £12 million wont pay for a whole new college extention.But £12 million from the Hibbert Lane site plus a sizeable amount from the sale of Buxton Lane site could pay for a large extention to an existing out of area college.Just a thought,things don't add up or do they?
I was thinking that, it would have been a good idea to have asked what they were measuring up for, because it still seems strange that the work on the Peacefield site stopped.  Its looking more and more like the college is going to take our money and the continuation of our  children's future education in our village / town  and run   Now that would be a double whammy and one that we didn't see coming due to concentrating on the Hibbert Lane site and taking our eyes of the Buxton Lane campus    I am sure selling gifted land is illegal and if it's not then it flipping well should be. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 29, 2011, 11:42:55 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
"come hell or high water" is an expression, it means that you will stop at nothing to ensure that you get what you want. For example, some people in the MIA ranks will make sure that the supermarket is not built, come hell or high water!


But why would you get that impression from a small facbook group?

And yes I do live on Hibbert Lane Maria
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 29, 2011, 11:48:08 PM
Upper or lower Hibbert lane?  Also do you have children?

Sorry for all the questions but genuinley struggling to believe anyone would want to live facing something like a Tesco extra or Asda. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 29, 2011, 11:48:35 PM
"come hell and high water" What in the world are you going on about. Yes ofcourse we all want a supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site but our views are bound to differ regarding size, and what type of store. I still don't understand what you aare getting at to be honest.
"come hell or high water" is an expression, it means that you will stop at nothing to ensure that you get what you want. For example, some people in the MIA ranks will make sure that the supermarket is not built, come hell or high water!


But why would you get that impression from a small facbook group?

And yes I do live on Hibbert Lane Maria
Considering peoples reaction to the posts on your wall You do seem to be determind, infact, one user wrote " and youve nothing to worry about but i will guarentee now that im going to do everything i can to beat the snobs in this town and get that thing built! Real talk!" that sure seems like there going to make it happen, come hell or high water!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 29, 2011, 11:57:40 PM
Upper or lower Hibbert lane?  Also do you have children?

Sorry for all the questions but genuinley struggling to believe anyone would want to live facing something like a Tesco extra or Asda. 
how far is your nearest shop to YOUR house maria? How many times over the yeaes have you thought 'i need milk but the shop is quite a distance to walk'. It shouldnt matter whether sareena lives at the top bottom or even accross the road, it doesnt matter if she has no children or even 8, the fact is she wants it....thats her opinion...we struggle to understand why people cannot just accept our views
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:01:20 AM
Hello mum of 2-I am asking genuine questions and Sareena does not have to answer.  Why you feel compelled to is beyond me-I am not struggling to accept her view just trying to understand it and there is a difference.

I live on Hibbert lane and walk to the local shops when I need milk.  I do not use large superstores unless absolutely necessary but that is my choice. 

I want another supermarket in Marple but not in the middle of a housing estate-my quetion re children related to that re safety with increased traffic etc.  My question was not directed to you and like I have said Sareena does not have to answer-just simple fact finding on my part.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 30, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
Lower Hibbert Lane near the phonebox. I dont particularly like the look of a supermarket but I guess I just don't mind as much. And about the traffic, it's bad everywhere, it makes no difference to me. I think that people who drive themselves can't complain about traffic... (not an attack at you, i have no idea if you drive or not)
The pros outweigh the cons in my opinion.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:11:41 AM
Thanks Sareena, I do drive and agree traffic is a problem in most areas-just think it will only get worse with a supermarket facing us!  Also worried about the 'creep' factor over time-the car park and grassy area on the right for now must remain as open space but in time I think it will be used to extend the store etc and opening times, noise pollution, light pollution and deliveries amongst other things all concern me. 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:14:59 AM
Hello mum of 2-I am asking genuine questions and Sareena does not have to answer.  Why you feel compelled to is beyond me-I am not struggling to accept her view just trying to understand it and there is a difference.

I live on Hibbert lane and walk to the local shops when I need milk.  I do not use large superstores unless absolutely necessary but that is my choice. 

I want another supermarket in Marple but not in the middle of a housing estate-my quetion re children related to that re safety with increased traffic etc.  My question was not directed to you and like I have said Sareena does not have to answer-just simple fact finding on my part.
the reason i commented is due to the fact me and sareena are very close, we both have no transport to drive to a supermarket of our choice so we have to get what we need from marple....im not saying all shops in marple are going to be losing our custom as we will continue to shop at a good amount of the shops we already do....but we would like to have a choice to shop at another suprmarket other than the over priced co-op.
As for child safety our children(who are very young) know not to cross the road without n adult, and i have said in a previous post (maybe on another thread) that there is a  of lights opposite the collage hich shou be used for their purpose. I believe it is a parents responsibility to teatheir children how cross safely.

Could you suggest another are land where supermarket couild a decent sized supermarket? (Obviously not a superstore as we all know that is going to be ridiculously too big for marple)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:19:44 AM
Hi another area has been suggested and mooted by the council-cannot remember the name as it is late and my brain is fried but it is at the back of the town near the post office-rumour is it is going and site will become available.  Much more suitable in my opinion-but I accept maybe not in yours.  Also the Co-op have agreed in principle to release part of the Hanburys site to a competitor-I am not convinced it would work though and feel the post office area with its car park etc would be better. 

The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 12:22:33 AM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Sareena on August 30, 2011, 12:25:45 AM
I agree that a supermarket would be much more suitable in the centre of Marple but It is the college that is selling up so i think it's pointless saying where else it could be.

Although I will  not like the fact that the roads will be alot busier and less safe, this doesn't matter much to me because I have a gate to lock so my child can't get out without me.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:29:37 AM
Hi another area has been suggested and mooted by the council-cannot remember the name as it is late and my brain is fried but it is at the back of the town near the post office-rumour is it is going and site will become available.  Much more suitable in my opinion-but I accept maybe not in yours.  Also the Co-op have agreed in principle to release part of the Hanburys site to a competitor-I am not convinced it would work though and feel the post office area with its car park etc would be better. 

The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 
i believe that the sorting office (if it were to sell) would be too small, and would just turn into a 'local' or 'express' supermarket...more of a convenience store and less of a decent sized one that people are so desperatly after. We need somewhere to do a decent sized shop with all types of brands from value/ smart price (for example) to heinz/kelloggs.
Im not saying that hibbert lae is perfect (as we do understnd it is smack bang in the middle of a residential area...so its understandable why people are angry), but tere does not seem be anothersuitable sized area.....unless co-op sold its land (and we all know that will not happen)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:34:03 AM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 12:57:50 AM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.
i mean how many adults can honestly say they HAVE NOT**
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 10:43:45 AM
Moorendman writes 'Two further rhetorical questions for you Dave. Firstly what new shops do you really believe would come to Marple, bearing in mind that smaller shops are suffering loss of trade from superstores 5 or 6 miles away anyway? Secondly  if you believe that new retailers would open, would you not expect that view to be supported by a more postive attitude from the existing community of independent retailers in Marple to the potential arrival of a Tesco or Asda?'.

The point about a new supermarket is that it is NOT 5 or 6 miles away - it's a few hundred yards away! I honestly believe that apart from the Co-op and Iceland, the currently thriving retailers in Marple (Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops and many more) have nothing to fear from Tesco or Asda and evrything to gain. As for the views of these businesses themselves, I realise that their group has come out against the supermarket, but I wonder whether all members really share that views, or whether they may be closing ranks to protect their weaker members. I was in Scotland recently: Tesco are planning a new supermarket on the edge of Fort Wiliam, and the local chamber of commerce is all in favour. Interesting contrast there!   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 10:59:15 AM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.

You said before, you an't walk and don't have a car. If you get the bus from one end of marple to another it's £1.25 each way. You say you take all your kids shopping so that must be 60p each on top so if you get a delivery, you have saved £2.50 for yourself & £1.20 for each offspring. Your marginal cost for delivery can be as little as 30p assuming you only have one child, if you have more than one, you are in the money.

Firstly, none of my kids are obese (as someone made a hint at earlier many kids being these days). They walk plenty. Have you yourself got children? Have you ever tried doing a weekly shop with them? Carried shopping for 7/8/9 people on a bus? I do walk alot but have health issues which would mean I can't carry alot of heavy shopping up a hill. If I had lots of money and more time then shopping in Marple itself would be great. However, many shops are not easily accesible with a pram, i have been tutted at before now for blocking the aisles. Iceland is impossible with a double buggy etc etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 11:08:26 AM
I agree that some people can do internet shopping, I do. But before I added up that it costs over 200 quid a year!! Mine varies between 4-6 pounds a week for delivery so it could top 300 quid. It's not free at all and with a large family we spend quite a lot. Not everyone can spare that money.

You said before, you an't walk and don't have a car. If you get the bus from one end of marple to another it's £1.25 each way. You say you take all your kids shopping so that must be 60p each on top so if you get a delivery, you have saved £2.50 for yourself & £1.20 for each offspring. Your marginal cost for delivery can be as little as 30p assuming you only have one child, if you have more than one, you are in the money.

Firstly, none of my kids are obese (as someone made a hint at earlier many kids being these days). They walk plenty. Have you yourself got children? Have you ever tried doing a weekly shop with them? Carried shopping for 7/8/9 people on a bus? I do walk alot but have health issues which would mean I can't carry alot of heavy shopping up a hill. If I had lots of money and more time then shopping in Marple itself would be great. However, many shops are not easily accesible with a pram, i have been tutted at before now for blocking the aisles. Iceland is impossible with a double buggy etc etc.
I totally agree!! When i had my double buggy (which infact was a slim one to fit through a standard door way) i lost track of how many times i got stuck so i can understand exactly where you are coming from. Akso its hard enough going round the marple shops getting everything you need in one run and piling it onto the buggy whilst keeping tabs on your other children.....there is no way i would try getting on a bus aswel wh screaming hungry children ad gettin funny looks from the public....and even snootish remarks.....it ould be nice to have convenince of being in one place close to home
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on August 30, 2011, 11:56:09 AM
The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 
So the College is resorting to threats is it? Sounds as though they are running scared!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on August 30, 2011, 12:07:10 PM
Quote
Firstly, none of my kids are obese (as someone made a hint at earlier many kids being these days). They walk plenty. Have you yourself got children? Have you ever tried doing a weekly shop with them? Carried shopping for 7/8/9 people on a bus? I do walk alot but have health issues which would mean I can't carry alot of heavy shopping up a hill. If I had lots of money and more time then shopping in Marple itself would be great. However, many shops are not easily accesible with a pram, i have been tutted at before now for blocking the aisles. Iceland is impossible with a double buggy etc etc.
Have you tried asking independent shops to deliver? I think that you would be pleasantly surprised at the number in Marple who will do this, especially as you have a health problem. Most of those that I know don't charge from the service as they work it in with their usual journeys home or when pcking up stock.

As for buggies and children in shops, perhaps a "child parking area" might be a good project for shopkeepers, parents or the Methodist chapel could get together on.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on August 30, 2011, 01:07:37 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 30, 2011, 01:10:52 PM
The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 

Seriously? You do realise that you're playing into Asda/Tesco hands with these sort of scaremongering comments!

I have no idea on the likelihood of the college selling both plots of land, but I'm very confident that if they do, we won't get two supermarkets. I can't for a second imagine that there would be a business case for, say, Tesco opening up on Buxton, if there's already an Asda on Hibbert.

It's much more likely that the land would be sold for housing development. But, if you keep scaring everybody into thinking it's going to be much much worse than it is, the plans they finally do submit will look reasonable, by comparison, and will stand a better chance of passing. And Asda/Tesco won't have had to make any compromises.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 01:17:16 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 01:45:08 PM
Miss M, I'm afraid your inability to provide any evidence for your 'more than just a rumour' that the college will relocate out or Marple leaves us with little alternative to regarding it as scaremongering.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 01:47:45 PM
Miss M, I'm afraid your inability to provide any evidence for your 'more than just a rumour' that the college will relocate out or Marple leaves us with little alternative to regarding it as scaremongering.

Give me time !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 01:57:59 PM
The college via informants does however have in mind the option of selling both its Marple sites and relocating elsewhere so we could end up with 2 huge stores to choose from. 

Seriously? You do realise that you're playing into Asda/Tesco hands with these sort of scaremongering comments!

I have no idea on the likelihood of the college selling both plots of land, but I'm very confident that if they do, we won't get two supermarkets. I can't for a second imagine that there would be a business case for, say, Tesco opening up on Buxton, if there's already an Asda on Hibbert.

It's much more likely that the land would be sold for housing development. But, if you keep scaring everybody into thinking it's going to be much much worse than it is, the plans they finally do submit will look reasonable, by comparison, and will stand a better chance of passing. And Asda/Tesco won't have had to make any compromises.

It is not scaremongering when it has been confirmed as something in the long term plans of the college.  You will also note I referred to the fact we could end up with 2 supermarkets to choose from-not we will. It is a possibility but agreed unlikely. Scaremongering would be to say we are getting a supermarket when we are not, we are getting one if the college get their way so guesswork re the size etc is far from scaremongering.  I am entitled to post my views and to date have said very little, if anything, to scare people.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 30, 2011, 01:59:32 PM
If this new supermarket goes Ahead we will have 2 supermarkets to choose from anyway, as the Co-op is not going to dissapear overnight!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 02:02:16 PM
I agree that a supermarket would be much more suitable in the centre of Marple but It is the college that is selling up so i think it's pointless saying where else it could be.

Although I will  not like the fact that the roads will be alot busier and less safe, this doesn't matter much to me because I have a gate to lock so my child can't get out without me.

It is not really pointless to say where another store could be-the planning application may rely on the argument there is no other location when clearly there is.  Any sale is subject to planning so all points will make a difference.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 02:04:29 PM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.

Agreed but as this is something we can have a say in and try to influence-unlike crime etc which will always happen wherever you live-I feel voicing an opinion, whether in favour or against, is something we are all entitled to do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on August 30, 2011, 02:35:55 PM
I think people living on Chadwick Street and Church Street would object to a supermarket being built where the sorting office is.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 02:42:06 PM
I think people living on Chadwick Street and Church Street would object to a supermarket being built where the sorting office is.

I agree.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 02:42:18 PM

Oh and I agree re the responsibility of parents re children crossing roads etc but more cars trucks etc equals more risk.  
very true but there are worse areas to live where gun and knife crime are at peak....nowhere in this world is EVER going to be safe, but thats just something we have to deal with and make sure we talk through the risks with our children......but how many adults can honestly say they have ran accross a busy/main road without waiting for a green man etc......i have.

Agreed but as this is something we can have a say in and try to influence-unlike crime etc which will always happen wherever you live-I feel voicing an opinion, whether in favour or against, is something we are all entitled to do.
of corse you are entitled to an opinion and nobody is going to tell you otherwise...just as we are entitled to our opinions. i thin kwe should leave it at that before it bocomes petty argumentative opinions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on August 30, 2011, 02:55:25 PM
Quote
Have you tried asking independent shops to deliver? I think that you would be pleasantly surprised at the number in Marple who will do this, especially as you have a health problem. Most of those that I know don't charge from the service as they work it in with their usual journeys home or when pcking up stock.

As for buggies and children in shops, perhaps a "child parking area" might be a good project for shopkeepers, parents or the Methodist chapel could get together on.

I haven't thought of asking them to be honest but if they do that and could advertise it would be great as not everyone is confident enough to ask and many disabilities are not obvious and people may be worried about disclosing them. If a list of shops who would deliver is avaliable in future it would be great. there would still eb the issue, though, that going round lots of shops takes a lot longer if you were to get a weeks worth. I used to try sticking to Marple and go to Iceland, Mulligans (loo roll etc) and Savers/Boots. However it is quite time and labour consuming compared to tesco/asda online for example. I do use the local shops quite alot though in the week for various bits.

Buggy parking area is a really good idea but when I had 2/3 at toddler age it would have been impossible to hold on to them and a trolly at the same time. Not sure recently but the co-op and Iceland never used to have twin trollies (with child seats). Sometimes it is plain easier to have a toddler in a trolley aswell when shopping.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 02:55:39 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 
Thank you!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on August 30, 2011, 03:59:09 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on August 30, 2011, 04:12:06 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.

Very good post marpleexile. 2+2=5 in a lot of this.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 04:32:27 PM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.

I hope you read my reply to your thread before-I am not scaremongering and in reality what I or you say on here will not alter the course of events anyway.  Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered and again most likely scenario would be to the highest bidder-as per the colleges current reasoning.  The size of the Hibbert lane site for now will be the existing building footprint/area the building is on-that has been confirmed by the college in an open discussion with me so it is not hearsay.  The area on the right currently the car park would for now remain as open space.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 05:12:41 PM
Maria, you write 'Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered'.

Confirmed? By whom?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 05:28:55 PM
Maria, you write 'Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered'.

Confirmed? By whom?

I am sorry but the person has asked not to be named therefore I cannot say.  Time will tell if they do go ahead with it though I guess.  I will refrain from speculating any further from now on as to the sale/use etc of Buxton lane as nothing is definite just being considered.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 30, 2011, 05:37:43 PM
The point about a new supermarket is that it is NOT 5 or 6 miles away - it's a few hundred yards away! I honestly believe that apart from the Co-op and Iceland, the currently thriving retailers in Marple (Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops and many more) have nothing to fear from Tesco or Asda and evrything to gain. As for the views of these businesses themselves, I realise that their group has come out against the supermarket, but I wonder whether all members really share that views, or whether they may be closing ranks to protect their weaker members. I was in Scotland recently: Tesco are planning a new supermarket on the edge of Fort Wiliam, and the local chamber of commerce is all in favour. Interesting contrast there!   

I think you have a rose-tinted view here Dave. The bottom line is those shops you list (and others) very much believe their business would be affected by a supermarket moving in on Hibbert La. It's their business, it''s their jobs, it's their families jobs and more than likely it's their houses on the line and they are worried.

It's all very well for someone in a cushy public sector job who's never had to worry about anything more than choosing a nice sunny day to go on strike, business owners have taken a huge risk in setting up, growing their business or only to survive, they did not counter on a large superstore opening 10  mins up the road.


I'm not so sure about your observation Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops etc are all thriving. I'd not be surprised if they are finding it as hard as other retailers and worried about going bust.

You may think people will shop in an identikit superstore, walk the 5 metres to their identikit car having brought some identikt shopping and then all of a sudden think "you know, I wonder if Littlewoods have some 24 day Aberdeen Angus in?, I'll walk the 10 minutes up the road to see.!" - I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Furthermore, those who actually put their money where their mouth is don't see it that way either.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
Maria, I very much doubt whether your anonymous source is reliable. The college governors minutes quoted elsewhere on this forum clearly show that the option of consolidating all three camsfc campuses on to one site was ruled out on cost grounds. Your source may not know that - or may be one of the scaremongers, of course.

Duke, I guess we"ll just have to agree to differ as usual ;-) But you might find it instructive to pop over to Glossop some time and see how Mettrick's butchers and other local shops are doing, along the street from Tesco. They seem to be doing just fine.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on August 30, 2011, 06:20:21 PM
Dave ,why don't you just pop off to the towns that have been killed by major supermarkets?A lot of them shop in Marple.They call it a nice day out and say how lucky we are to live in a place that still has a thriving town centre.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 30, 2011, 06:56:12 PM
Trixie, do you think Glossop has been 'killed'? I don't.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on August 30, 2011, 06:59:43 PM
Maria, I very much doubt whether your anonymous source is reliable. The college governors minutes quoted elsewhere on this forum clearly show that the option of consolidating all three camsfc campuses on to one site was ruled out on cost grounds. Your source may not know that - or may be one of the scaremongers, of course.

Duke, I guess we"ll just have to agree to differ as usual ;-) But you might find it instructive to pop over to Glossop some time and see how Mettrick's butchers and other local shops are doing, along the street from Tesco. They seem to be doing just fine.

You may believe what you wish Dave but I know my source is reliable.  Not all the minutes are published and elements of some are omitted.  As I have said however whether they choose to go ahead with it is another matter. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 09:14:40 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 

Any news on these complaining guidelines? It would be useful to know for future reference for those needing it
thanks
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on August 30, 2011, 09:15:30 PM
I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin
 

Nevermind, just spotted the new thread :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 30, 2011, 09:19:48 PM
Just spotted some "vote tesco" graffiti on the canal bridge near the farm at the top of hawk green, the one that shares a road with the golf course. looked fairly fresh to
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 09:25:24 PM
I am sorry Dave but with your constant questioning which is getting oh so predictable, you are eventually going to stop the small amount of MIA members from posting on this site.  If I was being drip fed information as it came to light I would be very pleased not constantly shooting the messenger.  I have nothing to gain by telling lies but a lot to loose by saying too much which would cause our information to dry up, because peoples jobs are at risk if their identities are revealed   So please stop constantly slating the posts or I think MIA will stop posting which would be a shame as it has enlightened a lot of the community to what's happening.  Always remember Dave NO ONE would be any the wiser to all this if MIA had not alerted the public.  You come across as an intelligent man so surely you must understand that this is more than a supermarket being built on Hibbert Lane it's about the legalities of what the college is doing with land that was gifted, it's about the colleges past financial difficulties, it's about a private company being able to sell a plot of land that should be for our childrens education and failing to inform the community what it's plans are.  Because like it or not if any other private company were struggling financially, you can be as sure as hell that the people of MARPLE would not be bailing it out.  So ask yourself why are we bailing out a private company and giving them an easy ride so that our children may have to travel half way across Stockport to attend a college.  So if I can prevent all the children of MARPLE having to go to an out of area college with the increased costs that would place on families I will, because this land was for education not a flipping supermarket or housing,  I still  struggle to understand why you appear to think it's ok that the college has mis managed it's finances, for goodness sake Dave you must also be  asking yourself where has all the money gone, because from the looks of it it's not been invested in the buildings. 
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on August 30, 2011, 10:23:13 PM
The point about a new supermarket is that it is NOT 5 or 6 miles away - it's a few hundred yards away! I honestly believe that apart from the Co-op and Iceland, the currently thriving retailers in Marple (Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops and many more) have nothing to fear from Tesco or Asda and evrything to gain. As for the views of these businesses themselves, I realise that their group has come out against the supermarket, but I wonder whether all members really share that views, or whether they may be closing ranks to protect their weaker members. I was in Scotland recently: Tesco are planning a new supermarket on the edge of Fort Wiliam, and the local chamber of commerce is all in favour. Interesting contrast there!   

I think you have a rose-tinted view here Dave. The bottom line is those shops you list (and others) very much believe their business would be affected by a supermarket moving in on Hibbert La. It's their business, it''s their jobs, it's their families jobs and more than likely it's their houses on the line and they are worried.

It's all very well for someone in a cushy public sector job who's never had to worry about anything more than choosing a nice sunny day to go on strike, business owners have taken a huge risk in setting up, growing their business or only to survive, they did not counter on a large superstore opening 10  mins up the road.


I'm not so sure about your observation Littlewoods, White's, Neal's, Wilson's, Hollins, Archers, the pet shop, Harmony Decor, Edel Carpets, the car spares shops etc are all thriving. I'd not be surprised if they are finding it as hard as other retailers and worried about going bust.

You may think people will shop in an identikit superstore, walk the 5 metres to their identikit car having brought some identikt shopping and then all of a sudden think "you know, I wonder if Littlewoods have some 24 day Aberdeen Angus in?, I'll walk the 10 minutes up the road to see.!" - I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Furthermore, those who actually put their money where their mouth is don't see it that way either.
Maybe, just maybe this is because these proprietors have been scared witless by the MIA campaign
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 30, 2011, 11:06:40 PM
Hi Marpleexile we do know for a fact that they can build on nearly 5. Something  acres now then after 10 years build on the remaining 3.something acres.  So we could see the development grow and grow.  Once the land has been sold the owners can do basically what they want.  The site is as big as the Portwood Site, I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful she is always contacting the council about noise levels but the supermarket is a law unto itself.  There are car alarms going off, trucks unloading, car doors slamming , noise from the freezers, beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up, lights so bright that her bedroom is lit up at night and an increased crime rate due to gangs of youths hanging around not to mention her road being used as a rat run at all hours of the night. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 30, 2011, 11:46:02 PM
what they want.  I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful..... beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up

Is that to cover the swearing?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 31, 2011, 09:58:27 AM
Maria, you write 'Re the Buxton site proposals nothing is confirmed either way you are of course right but it has been confirmed a sale is being considered'.

Confirmed? By whom?

I am sorry but the person has asked not to be named therefore I cannot say. 

Maria, have another look at this:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Estates%2017_06_10m%20amended%20F&G%2001_12_10.pdf

The key section is this:

'The options for each site and the possibility of moving to a single site were
discussed in detail, including planning considerations, different proposals for
buildings and facilities and the options for funding. The four funding
scenarios presented ranged from self funding, where energy saving works
and student retention works were undertaken, to extensive new build with a
£44-48 million gap in funding.'
[my italics]

That last bit means that if the college were to dispose of all three campuses, in Cheadle and in Marple, and build a single completely new mega-college on a new site somewhere else (say, Hazel Grove, for example), the cost of the new build would be £44 - £48 million more than the proceeds raised from disposing of the three existing sites!  That is a huge and completely unbridgeable funding gap, and that is why we can be certain that that option is a total non-starter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Osdog on August 31, 2011, 10:09:34 AM
Hi it's not scaremongering, do you think I am of that low an intelligence !  This is based on the colleges financial situation, leaks from reliable people and working on this day after day , watching, questioning and evaluating.

I think you might be missing my point. If you get everyone in Marple outraged over an unlikely (in my opinion), worst-case situation, when the actual plans are revealed, if they aren't worst-case, many people will feel like we "won" because they all feared it would be worse, and the actual planning process will be easier for Asda/Tesco etc to navigate.

However, if you get everyone outraged over more modest (and in my opinion more likely) proposals, they'll be outraged if that's what is proposed, and even more so if the proposals are worst-case.

I'm not questioning your sources. In this case, your sources are saying that the college might end up selling both sites. And they are saying that Asda (and therefore a supermarket of some description) are the preferred bidders for Hibbert Lane. No arguments from me so far. However, your sources haven't said anything about the size of any supermarket - that is all guess-work by people based on what is physically possible on the site. Your sources also haven't said that Buxton Lane would also be sold to a supermarket chain, just that they're considering it, that was conjecture on the part of Maria. It's that guess-work and conjecture that I think is potentially dangerous scaremongering.

I picked this up from an earlier post..... the way I see it, and I'm prepared to be wrong here, is that the campus site can only be half built on - with the car park area as is being protected.  Of the remaining half, only half can be built on, as the supermarket would have to provide parking (or would they be able to use the existing car park???), of that part they can build on, there will have to be access to the rear, for deliveries etc,,, and space around anyway....

My question then is... how big actually would it be?  Twice the size of the co-op maybe.

I'm not saying this supermarket is a good thing, I'm trying in my own mind to get it all in perspective
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 31, 2011, 03:28:45 PM
For an idea of the size of site that can be built on excluding the existing car park, Mellor Sports Club playing fields (cricket & lacrosse) is 4.5 acres, 4.8 acres can be built on at Hibbert lane initially.

4.8 acres = 20,000 sq metres.

The only other place in Marple that you can measure that on is the Memorial Park. It is the area from the Bowling Green, around the two children's play areas, along Station Road and back up to the Bowling Green. (with the play areas and bowling green being inside the area).

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Osdog on August 31, 2011, 04:19:48 PM
That's the whole area yes.... I was there at the demonstration in the park.

But that's the footfall, what size would the building be? Or is that the building?, how much of that space is car park and service roads?

Sorry to be a pain, but I truly can't get my head round this.....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 31, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
That's the area that can be built on including any additional car park and service roads. The service roads will depend on how good their architect is.
Another example that has been given us by the councils' planning dept. is a similar size development to the Morrison's at Edgeley.
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Osdog on August 31, 2011, 07:43:10 PM
I've no idea how big that is.  But thank you for the information, it's much appreciated.  Maybe I'll go and look.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 31, 2011, 09:22:08 PM
Dave , Ms Cassidy told me they needed 12 million , but what we don't know is how much the supermarkets are offering ! It could be considerably more , if there becomes a bidding war ?   So can you see the differing scenarios and how this is proving very difficult to assess.  Another little snippet Mr Grant (  Chair of governors ) is standing down.  The last conversation I had with Mr Grant was that when  he gave the now famous statement as published on CAMSFC web site and in the Stockport Express was "that at that time he believed that to be the truth".   I have a feeling that things have moved on since he made that statement and his decision to stand down to me says more than words.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on August 31, 2011, 10:42:41 PM
What I can understand is, the land was gifted to Marple  people however many years ago  for the  education of local children. Then the  government in 1993/1995 gave lands to all colleges so that they could have more control over it for the education of children, now so far that seems ok.  What I don't understand is how that land can now be sold to a supermarket, if it was only given in this case to CAMSFC for education, sounds a bit fishy to me, don't you agree, because if all private colleges were allowed to do this where would that leave our children.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on September 01, 2011, 12:48:13 AM
What I can understand is, the land was gifted to Marple  people however many years ago  for the  education of local children. Then the  government in 1993/1995 gave lands to all colleges so that they could have more control over it for the education of children, now so far that seems ok.  What I don't understand is how that land can now be sold to a supermarket, if it was only given in this case to CAMSFC for education, sounds a bit fishy to me, don't you agree, because if all private colleges were allowed to do this where would that leave our children.  
Does this help?
If i have got it right the college holds the deed so therefore can sell to whoever they wish
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on September 01, 2011, 12:51:20 AM
What I can understand is, the land was gifted to Marple  people however many years ago  for the  education of local children. Then the  government in 1993/1995 gave lands to all colleges so that they could have more control over it for the education of children, now so far that seems ok.  What I don't understand is how that land can now be sold to a supermarket, if it was only given in this case to CAMSFC for education, sounds a bit fishy to me, don't you agree, because if all private colleges were allowed to do this where would that leave our children.  
Does this help?
If i have got it right the college holds the deed so therefore can sell to whoever they wish

i have just read the top of the page and realised you made the enquiery (i think)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on September 01, 2011, 01:21:09 AM
Hi Marpleexile we do know for a fact that they can build on nearly 5. Something  acres now then after 10 years build on the remaining 3.something acres.  So we could see the development grow and grow.  Once the land has been sold the owners can do basically what they want.  The site is as big as the Portwood Site, I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful she is always contacting the council about noise levels but the supermarket is a law unto itself.  There are car alarms going off, trucks unloading, car doors slamming , noise from the freezers, beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up, lights so bright that her bedroom is lit up at night and an increased crime rate due to gangs of youths hanging around not to mention her road being used as a rat run at all hours of the night. 

That's my point exactly. Lets get everyone up in arms about even a small supermarket, then if it turns out the plans are for a larger one, then everyone will still be against it.

I'm just afraid that if everyone thinks Asda/Tesco are planning a portwood sized monster, they'll actually be pleased if they apply to build something more modest, and might be left with the impression that Asda/Tesco backed down and we "won" by making them compromise.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 01, 2011, 07:52:57 AM
What I can understand is, the land was gifted to Marple  people however many years ago  for the  education of local children. Then the  government in 1993/1995 gave lands to all colleges so that they could have more control over it for the education of children, now so far that seems ok.  What I don't understand is how that land can now be sold to a supermarket, if it was only given in this case to CAMSFC for education, sounds a bit fishy to me, don't you agree, because if all private colleges were allowed to do this where would that leave our children.  

I seem to recall Paul Lawrence (SMBC Planning Supremo) dealing with this issue at the 'party in the park'?  As you know, the covenants on the Hibbert Lane campus are set out in this FOI response:  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covenants_relating_to_the_colleg

The ones listed 1 - 5 date from 1925, and obviously present no obstacles regarding the sale of the site to a supermarket, or anyone else for that matter.

The conditions that you are referring to, I think, are listed at the end:

There are also rights in favour of the Local Authority to
1- use parts of the Hibbert Lane site for purposes of providing adult education
2- use the leisure centre situated within the Hibbert Lane Site
3- use the Youth Club situated within the Hibbert lane Site


My understanding from what Paul Lawrence said is that if the college were to maintain the council's rights nearby (i.e. at the Buxton Lane site), that would be sufficient to satisfy the conditions.   But I'm not a lawyer, and maybe MIA should take its own legal advice on the matter.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on September 01, 2011, 09:07:40 AM
Hi Marpleexile we do know for a fact that they can build on nearly 5. Something  acres now then after 10 years build on the remaining 3.something acres.  So we could see the development grow and grow.  Once the land has been sold the owners can do basically what they want.  The site is as big as the Portwood Site, I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful she is always contacting the council about noise levels but the supermarket is a law unto itself.  There are car alarms going off, trucks unloading, car doors slamming , noise from the freezers, beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up, lights so bright that her bedroom is lit up at night and an increased crime rate due to gangs of youths hanging around not to mention her road being used as a rat run at all hours of the night. 

That's my point exactly. Lets get everyone up in arms about even a small supermarket, then if it turns out the plans are for a larger one, then everyone will still be against it.

I'm just afraid that if everyone thinks Asda/Tesco are planning a portwood sized monster, they'll actually be pleased if they apply to build something more modest, and might be left with the impression that Asda/Tesco backed down and we "won" by making them compromise.

Having read your post I do agree with your point-we need to maintain our original view that a supermarket on Hibbert lane is not appropriate for the area.  I sincerely agree one in the town centre is.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on September 02, 2011, 12:07:10 PM
Hi Marpleexile we do know for a fact that they can build on nearly 5. Something  acres now then after 10 years build on the remaining 3.something acres.  So we could see the development grow and grow.  Once the land has been sold the owners can do basically what they want.  The site is as big as the Portwood Site, I have a friend who lives five streets away from a  smaller site than HIbbert Lane  and the noise at night is dreadful she is always contacting the council about noise levels but the supermarket is a law unto itself.  There are car alarms going off, trucks unloading, car doors slamming , noise from the freezers, beep beep noise constantly when the delivery lorries are backing up, lights so bright that her bedroom is lit up at night and an increased crime rate due to gangs of youths hanging around not to mention her road being used as a rat run at all hours of the night. 

This is pure scaremongering. "Five Streets"! If you lived more than one row of houses away from the Co-op supermarket in Marple you would be barely aware of its existence. You don't hear a peep out of them after they have closed at night. And just how many large-lorry deliveries do you think that the Co-op has per day? Why don't you actually go and count them: you really don't need many fingers to do so. "Lights so bright that her bedroom is lit up at night"? Go and look at the Co-op lights. They are directed downward, are just sufficient to maintain security and are no more obtrusive than ordinary streetlights.

On a different subthread people are also making a meal out of ASDA's access problems in Hazel Grove. At least ASDA are doing something about it. The residents on their temporary and soon-to-be-redundant access route have more to worry about than supermarket lorries: there is no way a fire engine could get down their road. (This also applies to several streets in Marple.) If the Co-op's lorries can get down Hollins Lane then supermarket lorries should have no difficulty at all negotiating Hibbert Lane.

Finally, thanks to the person who posted the "Yes" campaign's more coherently worded mission statement in this forum. As you see they are not advocating a hypermarket-sized development in Marple. As they state: it would not be logical and they wouldn't support it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on September 03, 2011, 09:42:23 AM
i think the point thats been made hollins is that the big supermarket chains really dont give a toss about their neighbours or local people.  The coop regardless of their high prices are historically a community organisation and still remain so.  Just maybe that is why there is less impact from the coop? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: exmarpleite on September 03, 2011, 09:43:35 PM
can i ask supporters of the MIA position to explain what their plan B is please ,if i have read recent postings and understood them (no foregone conclusion) they appear to be saying the following:-
most of them seem to accept there is a need for another supermarket to compete with the coop on price and choice especially for those unable to get out of town to shop.
they do not seem to agree what size such a store should be to compete fairly with the coop ,people say anything from a corner store to something like a full blown superstore ,i think probably everyone would agree logically it has to be as big as the coop to compete
MIA supporters do not think the college site on hibbert lane is an appropriate location for a superstore for numerous reasons
MIA supporters claim numerous sites around the centre could be suitable for the superstore ,NONE suggested so far are remotely suitable ,primarily because they are too small ,there is only one site suitable physically that is the rec and i should imagine building on there would outrage MIA supporters even more than on Hibbert Lane
now "sources" who the MIA seem to have many of  ,claim the college is in an even more parlous state than previously thought and rather than the sale of hibbert lane being an option it could actually be their only hope of survival in marple
if the figures to redevelop buxton lane being bandied about are even half right the sale of hibbert lane for retail use is the only thing that will generate any where enough money to pay for it ,residential use which is the obvious use for thesite will probably pay 50% of retail use ,if that in the current market
so where does that leave marple if the no camp win
1 no  competition for the so called ethical coop who are abusing their monopoly to rip of people
2 potentially the college closing in marple
3 residential redevelopment on the hibbert lane and buxton lane campuses
come on MIA can you not start to put forward some positive ideas for a change instead of all the doom and gloom which just seems to justify what your opponents are saying ,for instance what about thinking the unthinkable and supping with the enemy ie the college
marple needs the college ,the college needs a shed load of money to stay in the town ,marple itself should also benefit and share in the proceeds of any sale they should not just go to the college ,such monies could be used to help improve the centre and bolster it against any effects of a superstore

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on September 04, 2011, 12:40:38 AM
can i ask supporters of the MIA position to explain what their plan B is please ,if i have read recent postings and understood them (no foregone conclusion) they appear to be saying the following:-
most of them seem to accept there is a need for another supermarket to compete with the coop on price and choice especially for those unable to get out of town to shop.
they do not seem to agree what size such a store should be to compete fairly with the coop ,people say anything from a corner store to something like a full blown superstore ,i think probably everyone would agree logically it has to be as big as the coop to compete
MIA supporters do not think the college site on hibbert lane is an appropriate location for a superstore for numerous reasons
MIA supporters claim numerous sites around the centre could be suitable for the superstore ,NONE suggested so far are remotely suitable ,primarily because they are too small ,there is only one site suitable physically that is the rec and i should imagine building on there would outrage MIA supporters even more than on Hibbert Lane
now "sources" who the MIA seem to have many of  ,claim the college is in an even more parlous state than previously thought and rather than the sale of hibbert lane being an option it could actually be their only hope of survival in marple
if the figures to redevelop buxton lane being bandied about are even half right the sale of hibbert lane for retail use is the only thing that will generate any where enough money to pay for it ,residential use which is the obvious use for thesite will probably pay 50% of retail use ,if that in the current market
so where does that leave marple if the no camp win
1 no  competition for the so called ethical coop who are abusing their monopoly to rip of people
2 potentially the college closing in marple
3 residential redevelopment on the hibbert lane and buxton lane campuses
come on MIA can you not start to put forward some positive ideas for a change instead of all the doom and gloom which just seems to justify what your opponents are saying ,for instance what about thinking the unthinkable and supping with the enemy ie the college
marple needs the college ,the college needs a shed load of money to stay in the town ,marple itself should also benefit and share in the proceeds of any sale they should not just go to the college ,such monies could be used to help improve the centre and bolster it against any effects of a superstore



Exmarpleite, that is an excellent post. I am too interested in answers to these questions.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 04, 2011, 08:10:41 AM
Yes, a thoughtful and interesting post, exmarpleite.  Can we just pick up (and clear out of the way) this bit about the college's overall financial position. 
now "sources" who the MIA seem to have many of  ,claim the college is in an even more parlous state than previously thought....

The origin of this is presumably an incorrect statement on the MIA website (repeated in the locked 'Latest News' thread on this forum).  It reads 'Lawrence Grant, Chair of the Governors admits that they are failing to manage the finances of the College and require a quick fix in the form of a £12 million sale of the Hibbert Lane site.' 

The reality is very different. The college is not in a 'parlous state' at all.   On the contrary, its financial position is currently graded by inspectors as 'outstanding'.  This is backed up by the most recently available summary of their annual report and accounts, which show a healthy financial position:   http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Annual_reports/Annual_Rep_08_09_lr.pdf.   

The only statement made by the Chair of Governors, AFAIK, has been this: http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=90.  As you see, it makes no mention of the college's overall financial position at all, and certainly there is no 'admission' that the governors have failed to manage it.     

MIA have some legitimate arguments to make against the college's plans, but they do not help themselves by publishing such an inaccurate allegation.  The college wishes to sell its Hibbert Lane site in order to re-invest the proceeds in Buxton Lane.  It is clearly not selling land for a 'quick fix' - indeed, like any public body, they would not be permitted to dispose of assets and use the proceeds towards running costs, which is what MIA seem to be suggesting.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 04, 2011, 05:07:01 PM
i think the point thats been made hollins is that the big supermarket chains really dont give a toss about their neighbours or local people.  The coop regardless of their high prices are historically a community organisation and still remain so.  Just maybe that is why there is less impact from the coop? 

Can someone please supply evidence of the co-op in Marple engaging in community activities and events?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 04, 2011, 05:11:56 PM
i think the point thats been made hollins is that the big supermarket chains really dont give a toss about their neighbours or local people.  The coop regardless of their high prices are historically a community organisation and still remain so.  Just maybe that is why there is less impact from the coop? 

Can someone please supply evidence of the co-op in Marple engaging in community activities and events?
Look in the "marple festival" booklet that was pushed through your door, the Co-op sponsored it!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 04, 2011, 06:02:37 PM
Just heard from a friend who works at the college that the Big Boys from Tesco have already been into the college (Willows) on Hibbert Lane and are in talks with planning.  I do not know how true it is but I have been told that Tesco are requesting a roundabout where the newsagents is on the new road.  This will involve demolishing the swimming baths (over my dead body) and the newsagents.   As a sweetener to the out cry that will start once it is out there are plans to build a swimming complex on the Woodville site or in that vicinity.   Hope this is just a rumour but there is usually no smoke without fire!  My god ! I feel another petition coming on  :P

most of the hearsay on this website come from post's like this... MM is this still to your knowledge?
my point is that from the very beginning its posts like this what are scaring people into signing the petitions.

And the new scare is that oh actually the college are going to sell both sites and run with the money!

I do understand why some shops are worried, BUT locals do support you, we still shop at your shops, we just have to travel out of Marple to do our main shopping. Marple just doesn't offer the majority of its residents the goods we require at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 04, 2011, 06:18:46 PM
i think the point thats been made hollins is that the big supermarket chains really dont give a toss about their neighbours or local people.  The coop regardless of their high prices are historically a community organisation and still remain so.  Just maybe that is why there is less impact from the coop? 

Can someone please supply evidence of the co-op in Marple engaging in community activities and events?
Look in the "marple festival" booklet that was pushed through your door, the Co-op sponsored it!

Right, they've sponsored a booklet. Anything slightly more impressive than that that they've done?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 04, 2011, 07:21:44 PM
Tina I suggest you attend the rally and get first hand the possible plans for Marple Hall and how that may effect the college plans.  Please keep this real and do not continue to try to belittle me.  The invitation is still open to Mum of 2 and yourself if you want to meet with MIA   I am only informing you of what our informers are informing us, how many more times do I have to reiterate this , please stop shooting the messenger.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 04, 2011, 07:46:29 PM
i think the point thats been made hollins is that the big supermarket chains really dont give a toss about their neighbours or local people.  The coop regardless of their high prices are historically a community organisation and still remain so.  Just maybe that is why there is less impact from the coop? 

Can someone please supply evidence of the co-op in Marple engaging in community activities and events?
Look in the "marple festival" booklet that was pushed through your door, the Co-op sponsored it!

Right, they've sponsored a booklet. Anything slightly more impressive than that that they've done?
Sponsoring the booklet was a damn site more than the "big 4" generally do! Yes, they have those silly schemes were you spend X amount and get vouchers, but have you seen the amount of vouchers a school has to collect before they can use them? The amount is rediculous, Were taking 100 for 1 football! And even then that footballs probobly made in china by 12 year olds earning 5P a year working 20 hour shifts 7 days a week!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 04, 2011, 07:48:41 PM
i think the point thats been made hollins is that the big supermarket chains really dont give a toss about their neighbours or local people.  The coop regardless of their high prices are historically a community organisation and still remain so.  Just maybe that is why there is less impact from the coop? 

Can someone please supply evidence of the co-op in Marple engaging in community activities and events?
Look in the "marple festival" booklet that was pushed through your door, the Co-op sponsored it!

Right, they've sponsored a booklet. Anything slightly more impressive than that that they've done?
Sponsoring the booklet was a damn site more than the "big 4" generally do! Yes, they have those silly schemes were you spend X amount and get vouchers, but have you seen the amount of vouchers a school has to collect before they can use them? The amount is rediculous, Were taking 100 for 1 football! And even then that footballs probobly made in china by 12 year olds earning 5P a year working 20 hour shifts 7 days a week!

Right, so any advance on sponsoring a booklet?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 04, 2011, 07:53:50 PM
Tina I suggest you attend the rally and get first hand the possible plans for Marple Hall and how that may effect the college plans.  Please keep this real and do not continue to try to belittle me.  The invitation is still open to Mum of 2 and yourself if you want to meet with MIA   I am only informing you of what our informers are informing us, how many more times do I have to reiterate this , please stop shooting the messenger.

Keeping it real would entail the provision of unequivocal evidence of plans for the Hibbert Lane site. The only evidence so far appears to be anecdotal and/or circumstantial.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 04, 2011, 09:17:15 PM
HWL at last we agree !  Now then,  I have tried to obtain all you suggest but to no avail,  do you think you could have  a go  ???  You  may succeed where I have failed and then   all the community may have a idea as to what is going on.  Good Luck MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 04, 2011, 10:53:05 PM
Tina I suggest you attend the rally and get first hand the possible plans for Marple Hall and how that may effect the college plans.  Please keep this real and do not continue to try to belittle me.  The invitation is still open to Mum of 2 and yourself if you want to meet with MIA   I am only informing you of what our informers are informing us, how many more times do I have to reiterate this , please stop shooting the messenger.

I am not trying to belittle you MM, just asking a question if it was still to your knowledge. I have a valid reason for asking.
I would like to attend the rally as I really do want to know what the plans are. Thank you for the invite.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2011, 10:08:16 AM
Keeping it real would entail the provision of unequivocal evidence of plans for the Hibbert Lane site. The only evidence so far appears to be anecdotal and/or circumstantial.

This, as far as it goes, is the 'unequivocal evidence' available to us:
 http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=90

I agree that there is far too much gossip and rumour, including nonsense such as that the college is in a financial mess, or highly improbable scenarios, such as that it might close both Marple sites and move away altogether.    ::)  And then there's this kind of thing:
Tina I suggest you attend the rally and get first hand the possible plans for Marple Hall and how that may effect the college plans.  

This refers to the possibility that Marple Hall might apply to become an Academy, and that if they succeed, they might try to start a sixth-from.  This is the irresponsible line being taken by one of our councillors, with whom I have had a recent exchange of emails.  Even if that were to happen (and it's a very big 'if'!), it would be some years off, and would require substantial capital funds for building new accommodation at the school - and where would that come from?    ::)  Don't forget, camsfc has over 1,000 full-time equivalent students at its Marple sites - taking on that number in a new sixth-form at Marple Hall would almost double the size of the school, and would make it one of the largest schools in the UK!  As Miss M herself says, 'keep it real'.   It ain't going to happen......
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 05, 2011, 12:15:38 PM
Hi Dave have you not had a reply from Andrew Bispham ?  That's where I am gaining my information from.  If I was you I would get on to him and see where you reply is  :-\. Stop shooting the messenger  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2011, 12:31:11 PM
Yes, Cllr Bispham has replied to me as well.

I'm interested in messages, not messengers.  And I'm not at all impressed by the argument that the college should be prevented from making the very best possible improvements for its students, because a school down the road might possibly become an academy one day, and if it does then might possibly start up a sixth form, which could never be remotely big enough to take all the college's students anyway.   

But I'm a peace-loving guy, Miss M.   I'm not shooting anyone - and if I did no doubt I'd miss.   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on September 05, 2011, 06:11:17 PM
Right, so any advance on sponsoring a booklet?

My understanding is that they are sponsors of the Marple Festival this year and last year, not just a booklet.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on September 05, 2011, 08:48:13 PM
Quote
This refers to the possibility that Marple Hall might apply to become an Academy, and that if they succeed, they might try to start a sixth-from.  This is the irresponsible line being taken by one of our councillors, with whom I have had a recent exchange of emails.  Even if that were to happen (and it's a very big 'if'!), it would be some years off, and would require substantial capital funds for building new accommodation at the school - and where would that come from?    ::)  Don't forget, camsfc has over 1,000 full-time equivalent students at its Marple sites - taking on that number in a new sixth-form at Marple Hall would almost double the size of the school, and would make it one of the largest schools in the UK!  As Miss M herself says, 'keep it real'.   It ain't going to happen......

The point here is that the college's finance is dependant on the number of students it recruits. Even if Marple Hall had a small sixth form of about 150 students it would still make a considerable impact on the college.  There are several other schools such as Stamford in Ashton and Avondale in Stockport which became academies relatively quickly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alison on September 05, 2011, 09:56:54 PM
Right, so any advance on sponsoring a booklet?

My understanding is that they are sponsors of the Marple Festival this year and last year, not just a booklet.

The cooperative group supports a number of local, national and international initiatives. I don't have the individual details, but there is a lot of stuff on the website. I did find a very interesting link on the website about the Community Fund which allocates smaller grants to local initiatives where you can search by postcode, a few in Marple came up - I'm not really sure how to add links but I'll give it a go
http://www.co-operative.coop/membership/local-communities/community-map/ (http://www.co-operative.coop/membership/local-communities/community-map/).

I work for the cooperative so I cannot claim independance, but my experience is they support their staff in involvement in volunteering work for the benefit of the community. I cannot comment further and can't enter into any discussion, but there are links on their website for Customer Relations if you want any further information.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 05, 2011, 10:42:01 PM
HWL at last we agree !  Now then,  I have tried to obtain all you suggest but to no avail,  do you think you could have  a go  ???  You  may succeed where I have failed and then   all the community may have a idea as to what is going on.  Good Luck MM

I would love to have uncovered a smoking gun MM! I trust that if there is one you will beat me to it. But until we see any plans (and by that I mean drawings, not telephone conversations) then I don't think anyone should pass absolute judgement on any of these proposals.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 05, 2011, 10:47:57 PM
Right, so any advance on sponsoring a booklet?

My understanding is that they are sponsors of the Marple Festival this year and last year, not just a booklet.

The cooperative group supports a number of local, national and international initiatives. I don't have the individual details, but there is a lot of stuff on the website. I did find a very interesting link on the website about the Community Fund which allocates smaller grants to local initiatives where you can search by postcode, a few in Marple came up - I'm not really sure how to add links but I'll give it a go
http://www.co-operative.coop/membership/local-communities/community-map/ (http://www.co-operative.coop/membership/local-communities/community-map/).

I work for the cooperative so I cannot claim independance, but my experience is they support their staff in involvement in volunteering work for the benefit of the community. I cannot comment further and can't enter into any discussion, but there are links on their website for Customer Relations if you want any further information.

Fair enough and all useful info. Thanks.

I'm sure if we approached Asda or Tesco they would quote similar initiatives. No one could argue that it is fair to take info on the co-op in this area from their PR teams, and then look to Tescopoly and related sites to get the same thing for Asda and Tesco.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 05, 2011, 11:52:44 PM
HWL at last we agree !  Now then,  I have tried to obtain all you suggest but to no avail,  do you think you could have  a go  ???  You  may succeed where I have failed and then   all the community may have a idea as to what is going on.  Good Luck MM

I would love to have uncovered a smoking gun MM! I trust that if there is one you will beat me to it. But until we see any plans (and by that I mean drawings, not telephone conversations) then I don't think anyone should pass absolute judgement on any of these proposals.
What's the main concern is that after the governors meeting in Oct the corporation will sign with their prefered supermarket , what's worrying is this will be without planning as no plans have been submitted.  So if I were to start this campaign again I would call it STOP ! LISTEN and SPEAK TO ThE COMMUNITY   We all need to know whats happening and if it's so flipping good then why are the corporation not shouting how wonderful this will be for the people of MARPLE   I will leave you to draw your own conclusions  :-X
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on September 06, 2011, 02:30:27 AM
HWL at last we agree !  Now then,  I have tried to obtain all you suggest but to no avail,  do you think you could have  a go  ???  You  may succeed where I have failed and then   all the community may have a idea as to what is going on.  Good Luck MM

I would love to have uncovered a smoking gun MM! I trust that if there is one you will beat me to it. But until we see any plans (and by that I mean drawings, not telephone conversations) then I don't think anyone should pass absolute judgement on any of these proposals.
What's the main concern is that after the governors meeting in Oct the corporation will sign with their prefered supermarket , what's worrying is this will be without planning as no plans have been submitted.  So if I were to start this campaign again I would call it STOP ! LISTEN and SPEAK TO ThE COMMUNITY   We all need to know whats happening and if it's so flipping good then why are the corporation not shouting how wonderful this will be for the people of MARPLE   I will leave you to draw your own conclusions  :-X
You
 say that if this happened again you said that you would stop and listen to the community...well its never too late, there are alot who want it, alot who dont and alot that are on both sides, unsure or just dont care. If you had listened to the whole community in the 1st place and had maybe a simple questionaire posted through every door in marple you would find that your no campaigh does not spek for the majority of marple, infact the numbers could all possibly be similar. Listening to the whole community would hav stopped lot of the outrage  where the no campaigners  think thecan speak on behalf of the community. I for one am discused with th comments relating to that and i know quite a few others are too.
how open will this microphone be on sarday as i feel that if anyone even suggested they were up for it they would be discriminated (like a few of the yes campaigners already have been....which for a community who are suppost to be small and supportive is discusting) or shunned away from the microphone for being brave enough to stand in front of a large crowd fighting for his/her voices to be heard over the no campaign

Sorry if i rambled...im tired.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 06, 2011, 09:40:07 AM
The point here is that the college's finance is dependant on the number of students it recruits. Even if Marple Hall had a small sixth form of about 150 students it would still make a considerable impact on the college.

The possibility of a relatively small sixth form developing at a future Marple Hall Academy is a much more realistic prospect.  And as mabel points out, the school could become an academy quite quickly - IF it chose to apply.  However, raising the capital to build a sixth form centre, in the current financial climate, would take much longer, of course.   

But I can't agree that the impact on the college of 150 sixth-formers at Marple Hall would be 'considerable'.  Camsfc is a very big college, with about 2,600 full-time equivalent students across all three of its sites.  If the numbers were to fall to around 2,400 across two sites (Hibbert Lane having been sold), I suspect that the college woud still be financailly secure - indeed, probably more so than today, because the Hibbert Lane buildings are so inefficient. 

As for this:
if it's so flipping good then why are the corporation not shouting how wonderful this will be for the people of MARPLE   

I think there's already far too much shouting going on!  ::) The college has set out its intentions clearly in this statement http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=90.  The benefits of the plan to the community are explained in the opening sentence: 'The current 1930s buildings at Hibbert Lane are very expensive, inefficient and inappropriate for education in the 21st century. Their annual maintenance costs continue to escalate – money which should be invested in direct teaching for the benefit of the students.'
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on September 06, 2011, 10:15:40 AM
I think there's already far too much shouting going on!  ::) The college has set out its intentions clearly in this statement http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=90.  The benefits of the plan to the community are explained in the opening sentence: 'The current 1930s buildings at Hibbert Lane are very expensive, inefficient and inappropriate for education in the 21st century. Their annual maintenance costs continue to escalate – money which should be invested in direct teaching for the benefit of the students.'

This inefficient claim still doesn't convince me. Yes, metal windows & high ceilings take a lot of heating but are reletively cheap to remedy, certainly cheaper thatn levelling the existing building and rebuilding on an already cramped site. Perhaps the A' level physics students can come up with some useful ways of making a building more efficient.

I fear that this is a vanity project, we see it a lot in the quasi-public sector where the administrator is not content with providing (in this case) education for 16-18 yr olds and want some huge project to put their name to. We've seen it in Manchester with various white elephant projects, congestion charge schemes etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 06, 2011, 01:35:21 PM
I guess we've just got to choose who to believe.  One the one hand, the college's expensive consultants, Turner & Townsend, Bond Bryant, and Walsingham Planning, have developed for the college an accommodation strategy.  As part of that, using tried and tested methods such as space occupancy analysis, and benchmarking of heating, lighting and maintenance costs against other comparable organisations in their databases, the consultants have advised that Hibbert Lane is an inefficient building, and that the college would both save money and improve the facilities by consolidating on to the Buxton Lane site.

On the other hand, we have a guy who drives along Hibbert Lane on his way home from work, and who believes that he therefore knows better - indeed, he even thinks that one of the college's own students knows better!

Take your pick!   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 06, 2011, 04:57:11 PM
HWL at last we agree !  Now then,  I have tried to obtain all you suggest but to no avail,  do you think you could have  a go  ???  You  may succeed where I have failed and then   all the community may have a idea as to what is going on.  Good Luck MM

I would love to have uncovered a smoking gun MM! I trust that if there is one you will beat me to it. But until we see any plans (and by that I mean drawings, not telephone conversations) then I don't think anyone should pass absolute judgement on any of these proposals.
What's the main concern is that after the governors meeting in Oct the corporation will sign with their prefered supermarket , what's worrying is this will be without planning as no plans have been submitted.  So if I were to start this campaign again I would call it STOP ! LISTEN and SPEAK TO ThE COMMUNITY   We all need to know whats happening and if it's so flipping good then why are the corporation not shouting how wonderful this will be for the people of MARPLE   I will leave you to draw your own conclusions  :-X
You
 say that if this happened again you said that you would stop and listen to the community...well its never too late, there are alot who want it, alot who dont and alot that are on both sides, unsure or just dont care. If you had listened to the whole community in the 1st place and had maybe a simple questionaire posted through every door in marple you would find that your no campaigh does not spek for the majority of marple, infact the numbers could all possibly be similar. Listening to the whole community would hav stopped lot of the outrage  where the no campaigners  think thecan speak on behalf of the community. I for one am discused with th comments relating to that and i know quite a few others are too.
how open will this microphone be on sarday as i feel that if anyone even suggested they were up for it they would be discriminated (like a few of the yes campaigners already have been....which for a community who are suppost to be small and supportive is discusting) or shunned away from the microphone for being brave enough to stand in front of a large crowd fighting for his/her voices to be heard over the no campaign

Sorry if i rambled...im tired.
I would Like to point out that The "YES" campaginers aren't the only ones who have been discriminated, and threatend. I know that some people in marple want a tesco, for various reasons, However, There are (atleast from the current levels of support for both sides) more people who DO NOT want a supermarket than those who DO. At the end of the day however, the only way either side is going to be able to take the upper ground is the side that yells the loudest. I would unvail my "smoking gun" with regards to the abuse that has been directed toward certain "no" campaginers by a select group of, How shall I put this, Youths(?). However, i'm not going to as that Would A. create a firestorm, and B. wouldn't achieve a constructive result.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on September 06, 2011, 08:11:37 PM
HWL at last we agree !  Now then,  I have tried to obtain all you suggest but to no avail,  do you think you could have  a go  ???  You  may succeed where I have failed and then   all the community may have a idea as to what is going on.  Good Luck MM

I would love to have uncovered a smoking gun MM! I trust that if there is one you will beat me to it. But until we see any plans (and by that I mean drawings, not telephone conversations) then I don't think anyone should pass absolute judgement on any of these proposals.
What's the main concern is that after the governors meeting in Oct the corporation will sign with their prefered supermarket , what's worrying is this will be without planning as no plans have been submitted.  So if I were to start this campaign again I would call it STOP ! LISTEN and SPEAK TO ThE COMMUNITY   We all need to know whats happening and if it's so flipping good then why are the corporation not shouting how wonderful this will be for the people of MARPLE   I will leave you to draw your own conclusions  :-X
You
 say that if this happened again you said that you would stop and listen to the community...well its never too late, there are alot who want it, alot who dont and alot that are on both sides, unsure or just dont care. If you had listened to the whole community in the 1st place and had maybe a simple questionaire posted through every door in marple you would find that your no campaigh does not spek for the majority of marple, infact the numbers could all possibly be similar. Listening to the whole community would hav stopped lot of the outrage  where the no campaigners  think thecan speak on behalf of the community. I for one am discused with th comments relating to that and i know quite a few others are too.
how open will this microphone be on sarday as i feel that if anyone even suggested they were up for it they would be discriminated (like a few of the yes campaigners already have been....which for a community who are suppost to be small and supportive is discusting) or shunned away from the microphone for being brave enough to stand in front of a large crowd fighting for his/her voices to be heard over the no campaign

Sorry if i rambled...im tired.
I would Like to point out that The "YES" campaginers aren't the only ones who have been discriminated, and threatend. I know that some people in marple want a tesco, for various reasons, However, There are (atleast from the current levels of support for both sides) more people who DO NOT want a supermarket than those who DO. At the end of the day however, the only way either side is going to be able to take the upper ground is the side that yells the loudest. I would unvail my "smoking gun" with regards to the abuse that has been directed toward certain "no" campaginers by a select group of, How shall I put this, Youths(?). However, i'm not going to as that Would A. create a firestorm, and B. wouldn't achieve a constructive result.
seems like both sides are being discriminated but it does not sirprise me as there are alot of angry people with very different views. The reason there is alot of no campaigners is because your campaign is bigger than ours at the moment as we are only on facebook....for now.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on September 07, 2011, 04:09:00 PM
As I’ve previously mentioned on another post how many families with access to a car would abandon it to do the
weekly shop at a supermarket on Hibbert Lane?
Unless you lived very close to the proposed Hibbert Lane store it is some achievement to carry say 10 Bags
of Heavy Shopping any distance!!!

This is why there would in my opinion a large and dramatic increase in the traffic within the Hibbert Lane area and within Marple Centre in General.

For example if you are a family from Marple Bridge or Stockport Road to Dan Bank Area and you currently
travel to Stockport or Bredbury to do your weekly shop, would you suddenly abandon your Car to do your weekly shop at a new store in Hibbert Lane?
If the no these families would drive to the new supermarket bringing increased traffic to the centre of Marple and the Hibbert Lane area.
This does not take into account the people from outside the Marple Area who would travel to a new store.
If the proposed New store was of a substantial size I am sure Asda, Tesco or whoever would be accounting for
people to be travelling from outside Marple to use it.

At present there are probably 150 Car Parking spaces on the Hibbert Lane College site. Say at present the majority of cars arrive between 8.30 & 9 AM and leave between 3 & 3.30 PM, which is approximately 300 car movements a day.

If a new supermarket was built and there was a similar car parking for 150 cars.

For example if the car park was always full between 8 am & 10 pm at night, each car stays an average of 30 mines that would = 300 car movements
every 30 minutes i.e. 150 in & 150 out. In total there would be over 8,000 car movements a day.

I appreciate that there we don’t know how big the car park would be or how busy it would be etc.

But given that the 150 space car park is a similar size to the Co-op there could be that many car movements over a busy period.

So in my opinion there would be without doubt be a dramatic increase in traffic.

In addition there would probably be an additional set of traffic lights and therefore a busy dangerous junction similar to the one on at Stockport Road/Hollins Lane would be created which does not
exist at present, plus all the knock on affects to the general traffic in the area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on September 07, 2011, 05:38:28 PM
As I’ve previously mentioned on another post how many families with access to a car would abandon it to do the
weekly shop at a supermarket on Hibbert Lane?
Unless you lived very close to the proposed Hibbert Lane store it is some achievement to carry say 10 Bags
of Heavy Shopping any distance!!!

This is why there would in my opinion a large and dramatic increase in the traffic within the Hibbert Lane area and within Marple Centre in General.

For example if you are a family from Marple Bridge or Stockport Road to Dan Bank Area and you currently
travel to Stockport or Bredbury to do your weekly shop, would you suddenly abandon your Car to do your weekly shop at a new store in Hibbert Lane?
If the no these families would drive to the new supermarket bringing increased traffic to the centre of Marple and the Hibbert Lane area.
This does not take into account the people from outside the Marple Area who would travel to a new store.
If the proposed New store was of a substantial size I am sure Asda, Tesco or whoever would be accounting for
people to be travelling from outside Marple to use it.

At present there are probably 150 Car Parking spaces on the Hibbert Lane College site. Say at present the majority of cars arrive between 8.30 & 9 AM and leave between 3 & 3.30 PM, which is approximately 300 car movements a day.

If a new supermarket was built and there was a similar car parking for 150 cars.

For example if the car park was always full between 8 am & 10 pm at night, each car stays an average of 30 mines that would = 300 car movements
every 30 minutes i.e. 150 in & 150 out. In total there would be over 8,000 car movements a day.

I appreciate that there we don’t know how big the car park would be or how busy it would be etc.

But given that the 150 space car park is a similar size to the Co-op there could be that many car movements over a busy period.

So in my opinion there would be without doubt be a dramatic increase in traffic.

In addition there would probably be an additional set of traffic lights and therefore a busy dangerous junction similar to the one on at Stockport Road/Hollins Lane would be created which does not
exist at present, plus all the knock on affects to the general traffic in the area.


Those additional car movemetns are in addition to the currents 300 car movements per day as these are simply moving 300m up the road.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 07, 2011, 06:39:23 PM
Has anyone had a look at what people on the hazel grove forum are saying about the campaign(s)?
It makes for interseting reading, Including one post saying "Can we get our ASDA closed down once Marple have been cursed with one ?"
You can have a look at the forum here : http://www.hazel-grove.co.uk/forum/posts.asp?TID=2969&TPN=1
The interseting thing is that people from hazel grove, which does have a supermarket, are actually backing the No campaign, although as usual there are some people who are trying to argue otherwise, One poster actually called some of the "no" campaigners "SNOBS"!
As a side note, I've discovered that Asdas come with the following "delux" features! Handy Roadworks going on constantly, even at 3AM, to ensure that your life is as hellish as possible! They will also through in "one lane" closures during the small hours, so that you can't get out of your house!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 07, 2011, 06:48:39 PM
*When I say
Quote
The interseting thing is that people from hazel grove, which does have a supermarket, are actually backing the No campaign,
That is the general impression I get from looking on the forum, but as usual this is entirely my opinion, and is not based on any facts, juju, magic, voodoo, ancient cave markings or dilusions in any shape or form.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 07, 2011, 09:50:51 PM
Just to give people Some Idea of How "slippery" the head of tesco UK's corporate affairs hes featured in this youtube video, Ironically being asked questions by a campaign trying to get tesco to close its store because its having a (very) negative effect on the local community.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df0ZK3coXYg&feature=related
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on September 07, 2011, 10:03:01 PM
Just to give people Some Idea of How "slippery" the head of tesco UK's corporate affairs hes featured in this youtube video, Ironically being asked questions by a campaign trying to get tesco to close its store because its having a (very) negative effect on the local community.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=df0ZK3coXYg&feature=related

That "slippery" gentleman is celebrating a victory over the UK today, having today got approval for a Tesco in the last remaining postcode area. 

Guardian : Tesco closes in on its final mainland UK postcode : After seven years of arguments, Harrogate opens door to superstore – on the site of a former gasworks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/sep/07/tesco-superstore-harrogate-final-postcode)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on September 08, 2011, 11:29:49 AM
Has anyone had a look at what people on the hazel grove forum are saying about the campaign(s)?
It makes for interseting reading, Including one post saying "Can we get our ASDA closed down once Marple have been cursed with one ?"
You can have a look at the forum here : http://www.hazel-grove.co.uk/forum/posts.asp?TID=2969&TPN=1
The interseting thing is that people from hazel grove, which does have a supermarket, are actually backing the No campaign, although as usual there are some people who are trying to argue otherwise, One poster actually called some of the "no" campaigners "SNOBS"!
As a side note, I've discovered that Asdas come with the following "delux" features! Handy Roadworks going on constantly, even at 3AM, to ensure that your life is as hellish as possible! They will also through in "one lane" closures during the small hours, so that you can't get out of your house!


It is interesting. One person said that they saw someone with a 'no' poster in their window and they were shopping at Aldi. So they found it quite hypocritical if they are not supporting local shops etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on September 08, 2011, 01:52:04 PM
Has anyone had a look at what people on the hazel grove forum are saying about the campaign(s)?
It makes for interseting reading, Including one post saying "Can we get our ASDA closed down once Marple have been cursed with one ?"
You can have a look at the forum here : http://www.hazel-grove.co.uk/forum/posts.asp?TID=2969&TPN=1
The interseting thing is that people from hazel grove, which does have a supermarket, are actually backing the No campaign, although as usual there are some people who are trying to argue otherwise, One poster actually called some of the "no" campaigners "SNOBS"!
As a side note, I've discovered that Asdas come with the following "delux" features! Handy Roadworks going on constantly, even at 3AM, to ensure that your life is as hellish as possible! They will also through in "one lane" closures during the small hours, so that you can't get out of your house!


It is interesting. One person said that they saw someone with a 'no' poster in their window and they were shopping at Aldi. So they found it quite hypocritical if they are not supporting local shops etc.

I often shop at Aldi if I'm at the Gym over that way, it's not hypocritical.

I'm not sure how relevant to Cpt B.H. smith.'s post that is.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 08, 2011, 02:16:57 PM
Has anyone had a look at what people on the hazel grove forum are saying about the campaign(s)?
It makes for interseting reading, Including one post saying "Can we get our ASDA closed down once Marple have been cursed with one ?"
You can have a look at the forum here : http://www.hazel-grove.co.uk/forum/posts.asp?TID=2969&TPN=1
The interseting thing is that people from hazel grove, which does have a supermarket, are actually backing the No campaign, although as usual there are some people who are trying to argue otherwise, One poster actually called some of the "no" campaigners "SNOBS"!
As a side note, I've discovered that Asdas come with the following "delux" features! Handy Roadworks going on constantly, even at 3AM, to ensure that your life is as hellish as possible! They will also through in "one lane" closures during the small hours, so that you can't get out of your house!

So When do they do the roadworks .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on September 08, 2011, 05:59:50 PM

I often shop at Aldi if I'm at the Gym over that way, it's not hypocritical.


But some people do see it as such.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 09, 2011, 12:43:52 PM
Congratulations on the radio interview MIA! especially at that time in the morning!
Sounds like you guys made some valid points, I'm actually suprised that The principle actually allowed herself to be interviewed!
How is that college building falling down? I've not been trapped by falling debries yet! If the cinema is the one that i'm thinking of its used by 2 classes a week, thats it!
The building is, atleast from my point of view as a student, Is more than capable of handling the current demands placed upon it. Yes, it is tired, however, Its almost as if the college has pulled ALL funding for improvement of the site, if the state of the desks are anything to go by.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 09, 2011, 01:00:27 PM
Imagine,Pure and the BBC! It was a 6.30am start for some.That's what I call dedication!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 09, 2011, 02:48:20 PM
Interesting interviews on Radio Manchester - worth going on the website and having a listen while it's still there.

I thought the MIA people and the college principal made their points pretty well.  Less impressive was our MP, who seemed unaware of the legal obligation on the college to sell to the highest bidder.  He also repeatedly referred to the fact that SMBC would reject a planning application for retail use, without mentioning that this could then be overturned on appeal. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on September 09, 2011, 03:14:08 PM
Less impressive was our MP, who seemed unaware of the legal obligation on the college to sell to the highest bidder.  He also repeatedly referred to the fact that SMBC would reject a planning application for retail use, without mentioning that this could then be overturned on appeal. 

He's playing to his audience Dave. Of course he knows that, and so do we. However, the majority of people from Marple who were listening to this wouldn't know this and would think he's firmly on the "no supermarket" side. All politicians do it, so we shouldn't really be surprised.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 09, 2011, 03:15:10 PM
Yep, thats MP's for you, Jumping on the band wagon, then woundering why the band wagon's wheels fell off...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on September 09, 2011, 03:57:19 PM
Yep, thats MP's for you, Jumping on the band wagon, then wondering why the band wagon's wheels fell off...

I am absolutely sure that Andrew Stunell knew what he was saying. He's been around too long to get caught up in a bandwagon. Local MPs will be entirely pragmatic about an issue like this. Andrew Stunell will continue to publicly state that the college should find another way of funding their new building. He will do this whilst knowing full well that legally they have to accept the highest bid, no matter who it comes from, or what the planning regulations are saying about the use of the land.

Therefore he will be able to say he has supported the "no" campaign which (currently) the majority of his Marple constituents seem to want. He will also be able to say (if the sale of the land goes through to a supermarket) that unfortunately the college was following its legal obligations.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on September 09, 2011, 04:43:35 PM
Just listened to the interviews, to be honest I was a little disappointed. All the comments from the MIA were
related to the effect on local businesses and the people that own them. There was no comment from the MIA
about the effect a new store would have with regards to the local traffic and the people who live locally to
Hibbert Lane, Buxton Lane & the New developments.
It just makes you wonder if the highest bidder was a somebody wanting build large office complex or industrial units would there be the same outcry from the people who run the local businesses?
Andrew Stunell did mention briefly about the traffic problems that would result.
It should be remembered that people's opposition in the area just not just related to how the local business community is affected.
This how the interview came across to me.

The college principal also made some interesting comments about the thoughts on what may be built on Buxton Lane.
The existing structure i.e. Theatre etc would remain intact. a new sports Hall would be built, Arts Block &
a new science block.
So that would be 3 new building + the additional car parking that would be needed.

The above must mean that a lot of  existing field & Tennis courts would be built on ?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 09, 2011, 04:54:38 PM
I too noticed that the MIA people avoided mentioning the likely increase in traffic, but maybe they were being quite clever.    ;)   Although not all MIA supporters seem to agree on every detail, the general line seems to be that a supermarket would be OK in the middle of the town (e.g Chadwick Street) but not on the edge of it.  So if they had objected on the grounds of an increase in traffic, the interviewer would have said something like 'why are you against an increase  in traffic on Hibbert Lane, but not in the town centre?'
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on September 09, 2011, 05:16:43 PM
I too noticed that the MIA people avoided mentioning the likely increase in traffic, but maybe they were being quite clever.    ;)   Although not all MIA supporters seem to agree on every detail, the general line seems to be that a supermarket would be OK in the middle of the town (e.g Chadwick Street) but not on the edge of it.  So if they had objected on the grounds of an increase in traffic, the interviewer would have said something like 'why are you against an increase  in traffic on Hibbert Lane, but not in the town centre?'
I take your point on how the interviewer would play devil's advocate.
From my point a smaller type of supermarket in the centre, the size of Tesco express or Sainsburys local like the one in Romiley.
The ideal thing would have been when Hanburys closed another chain would have taken that over.

A smaller size store in the centre would give the desired alternative choice to the Co-op but without the increase in Traffic a superstore would bring to the area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 09, 2011, 05:37:08 PM
Less impressive was our MP, who seemed unaware of the legal obligation on the college to sell to the highest bidder.  He also repeatedly referred to the fact that SMBC would reject a planning application for retail use, without mentioning that this could then be overturned on appeal.  

He's playing to his audience Dave. Of course he knows that, and so do we. However, the majority of people from Marple who were listening to this wouldn't know this and would think he's firmly on the "no supermarket" side. All politicians do it, so we shouldn't really be surprised.
"The majority of people in  Marple wouldn't know that" What ever makes you think that?Of course councillors and MP's say what they like and we would be foolish to believe them.A lot of People also know about the appeal system and the the high possibility of it not being heard due to cost.Do you two think we came down in the last shower?The people on the radio didn't have the time discuss all their objections.Also people are not concerned about the increase in traffic just on Hibbert Lane.The whole of Marple would be affected if we had a large store.A smaller store in the town centre would not cause traffic mayhem.I wouldn't think that type of store would attract  many people from outside the area.Don't under estimate peoples intelligence.It's hardly rocket science, and insulting >:(


Sorry I did not see the last post mentioning traffic by Jethro
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on September 09, 2011, 09:31:44 PM
Yep, thats MP's for you, Jumping on the band wagon, then wondering why the band wagon's wheels fell off...

I am absolutely sure that Andrew Stunell knew what he was saying. He's been around too long to get caught up in a bandwagon. Local MPs will be entirely pragmatic about an issue like this. Andrew Stunell will continue to publicly state that the college should find another way of funding their new building. He will do this whilst knowing full well that legally they have to accept the highest bid, no matter who it comes from, or what the planning regulations are saying about the use of the land.

Therefore he will be able to say he has supported the "no" campaign which (currently) the majority of his Marple constituents seem to want. He will also be able to say (if the sale of the land goes through to a supermarket) that unfortunately the college was following its legal obligations.

Stunnell is being very practical, the easiest way to ensure the site is not a supermarket is for the college to re-think their sell Hibbert Lane - build up at Buxton La strategy.

MIA would do well to follow that lead rather than risk the site being sold and a long legal wrangle.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 11, 2011, 06:45:17 PM
Hi Duke
We have tried and tried to speak with Ms Cassidy but she is refusing to answer emails, letters, invitations to speak with the community and messages continually ignores messages given  via her PA joy Pippin  We have people on the MIA team that have come up with alternatives which have government funding but  unless she is willing to meet and discuss the proposals we are at a loss.  
This is only my opinion not that of MIA but my personal view is that too much money has been spent by CAMSFC in legal fees etc that for them there is no going back because they would then be answerable for wasted monies, we do know for a fact that we are two years behind their plans so there must have been some public / private monies spent that the college and corporation will be answerable for.
Does anyone know if this is the first time a public/private college/school has been sold since John Major handed lands over ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 11, 2011, 07:38:04 PM
I too noticed that the MIA people avoided mentioning the likely increase in traffic, but maybe they were being quite clever.    ;)   Although not all MIA supporters seem to agree on every detail, the general line seems to be that a supermarket would be OK in the middle of the town (e.g Chadwick Street) but not on the edge of it.  So if they had objected on the grounds of an increase in traffic, the interviewer would have said something like 'why are you against an increase in traffic on Hibbert Lane, but not in the town centre?'
.

No that's not the case it was unfortunate that I was not able to make the interview due to work commitments all sides are represented Business , Community and the Civic Society   I would have spoke about traffic because that's the main thing that will effect me.  The interview was short we are not experts in this field but we learn by our mistakes.  I personally feel that David and Gillian explained very well the damage a supermarket of this scale would have on the community.   MIA is a community group which everything comes under ie community issues, house prices, traffic, road safety, shops, loss of buildings of special intrest, tourism and business.  The majority of shop owners actually live in Marple so they also have all the other things mentioned to contend with is this  development was to be built on Hibbert Lane
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor Meldrew on September 11, 2011, 08:30:42 PM
Yep, thats MP's for you, Jumping on the band wagon, then wondering why the band wagon's wheels fell off...

I am absolutely sure that Andrew Stunell knew what he was saying. He's been around too long to get caught up in a bandwagon. Local MPs will be entirely pragmatic about an issue like this. Andrew Stunell will continue to publicly state that the college should find another way of funding their new building. He will do this whilst knowing full well that legally they have to accept the highest bid, no matter who it comes from, or what the planning regulations are saying about the use of the land.

Therefore he will be able to say he has supported the "no" campaign which (currently) the majority of his Marple constituents seem to want. He will also be able to say (if the sale of the land goes through to a supermarket) that unfortunately the college was following its legal obligations.

I think you are right, Howard, but I am more skeptical. Having spoken in confidence to a member of the CAMSFC Senior Management, I know the College are under a public duty to secure the highest possible sale value, something that doesn't seem to have been the case for government when Mrs Thatcher sold off  public utilities. As a government minister with the relevant brief, Andrew Stunell has lots of civil servants available to brief him on this, so ignorance is no excuse.

Also his statements about the Localism Bill he is in charge of introducing were economical with the truth in the extreme, such as the requirement for developers to consult local communities prior to the submission of planning applications; this, on its own, is of no use unless the process of appeal is changed to strengthen the capacity of local communities to successfully resist plans from developers once any plan is past the consultation stage and has become a matter of open contention between a developer and communities. A number of organisations, including CPRE, have long called for appeal powers in the planning system to be rebalanced in favour of communities, because the high % of successful appeals reveals the balance within the existing system. The CPRE analysis indicates that developers get away with this simply by putting in appeal after appeal until the community will to oppose dips - attrition.

For the same reason, the other claim our MP made - shifting the responsibility for drafting strategic plans from Local Authorities to neighbourhoods - will not alter the vulnerability of any such plans to being breached via applications from developers which run counter to them, once the appeals from developers already in possession of the land are underway.

To understand the full extent to which our MP is playing politics with us, we also need to bear in mind the forthcoming planning legislation. Everything I have read about it indicates that planning regulations & safeguards are being relaxed to facilitate development, not tightened up.

I will bow to a lawyer on this, but my own experience tells me that what binds all these threads together is the concept of superior and inferior legislation: which legislation trumps which other bits. Unless Andrew Stunell can tell us that his Localism Bill is going to be superior to planning legislation AND that it is going to be strengthened so as to give communities the opportunity to say No once and for all, rather than having to continually show that there is a demonstrable majority against the development, then he is complicit in the worst that could happen to Marple.

Andrew Stunell leads for the government on these matters and it was the government that chose to defeat two amendments to the Localism Bill that could have made a crucial difference to our prospects. One from Labour put forward a new clause  which would have required local planning authorities to adopt retail diversity schemes. Another, from a Liberal Democrat MP was aimed at allowing councils and the local community to protect the diversity and vitality of the local high street. Even so, neither would have been enough so long as the Planning appeal process remains as it is, let alone gets further liberalised, which is what is happening.

As with so much else about this government, all this runs counter to what both parties promised during the General Election - to introduce a community right of appeal in relation to planning applications.

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2011, 11:05:02 PM
We have people on the MIA team that have come up with alternatives which have government funding
What are those?

Does anyone know if this is the first time a public/private college/school has been sold since John Major handed lands over ?
It has happened many many times. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 11, 2011, 11:50:56 PM
We have people on the MIA team that have come up with alternatives which have government funding
What are those?

Does anyone know if this is the first time a public/private college/school has been sold since John Major handed lands over ?
It has happened many many times. 
Where  has it happened  I can not find a similar situation ?  But I bet I know a man who does  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2011, 12:14:51 PM
Colleges are just like any other organisation - if necessary they dispose of land, acquire new sites, extend existing sites etc etc, in order to expand or modernise their premises.  It happens all the time - it's just perfectly normal behaviour.  We did exactly that at the last college I worked at before I retired.  In particular, many colleges have got rid of former school buildings, just as camsfc plan to, and for the same reasons - they are unsuitable and expensive to run.  I believe Stockport College is planning something similar at its former Priestnall School campus in Heaton Moor,

But are you going to answer the question about 'alternatives which have government funding'.  Sounds intriguing........
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 12, 2011, 01:16:08 PM
Hi Dave
For obvious reasons I am not on the legal team lol  >: :D.  We are have a full MIA meeting soon and I will get the details of the alternatives for use that have been suggested
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 17, 2011, 06:17:23 PM
Another fantastic amount of signatures were gained today against CAMSFC proposed plans to build a supermarket on Hibbert Lane    So a big thank you to all who signed and to people who took away petitions to circulate to people who have not for what ever reason had the opportunity to sign.  

Once again we are looking for leaflet distributors for an event  which will be happening in Oct. If you could spare a hour just leafleting your street please contact the Action Line or send a personal message.   :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 18, 2011, 11:03:08 AM
Stopped by at the MIA gazebo in Market Street yesterday -  mainly, I must admit, to shelter from a downpour!  While I was browsing the leaflets, I couldn't help overhearing what one MIA person wielding a petition was saying about the college's plans - including all that stuff about the plan to use the proceeds of Hibbert Lane to develop Buxton Lane being a 'smokescreen' for the real plan, which was to move out of Marple altogether and build a new college on Jacksons Lane. And of course, people appeared to believe every word of it.........   ::)

I'm not personally a supporter of MIA, because to my mind, education has to be the overriding priority. I admit that there is a valid case to be made against the college's plans - but by peddling nonsensical rumours, which have already been disproved, MIA just discredits itself.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 18, 2011, 12:48:43 PM
Stopped by at the MIA gazebo in Market Street yesterday -  mainly, I must admit, to shelter from a downpour!  While I was browsing the leaflets, I couldn't help overhearing what one MIA person wielding a petition was saying about the college's plans - including all that stuff about the plan to use the proceeds of Hibbert Lane to develop Buxton Lane being a 'smokescreen' for the real plan, which was to move out of Marple altogether and build a new college on Jacksons Lane. And of course, people appeared to believe every word of it.........   ::)

I'm not personally a supporter of MIA, because to my mind, education has to be the overriding priority. I admit that there is a valid case to be made against the college's plans - but by peddling nonsensical rumours, which have already been disproved, MIA just discredits itself.   

MIA need to show what facts they have to prove that the college are going to take the money and run to rebuild at Jackson Lane. I have been in touch with the principal and she has told me a different story. In fact she says ...This is completely untrue we are fully committed to staying in Marple and looking at options to give the College modern and attractive buildings.

Also they are not planning to build higher on the building at Buxton Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 18, 2011, 01:08:11 PM
Thanks for that Tina ! One of my first calls will be to Stockport senior planners on Monday because that's where the information has come from.  I will also speak to Ms Cassidy's PA and find out why they have mis informed you, did you give your name to CAMSFC  so I can identify you ? as  this is important and the truth needs to be out.  

Dave as we have informed you before all our information comes from leaked sources so I think the time has now come for MIA to stop posting on this site as you continually keep shooting the messenger   I am unsure of who you spoke to at the MIA stall but what you must always remember is that we have lived and breathed this since June ie reading FOI going to meetings speaking to council officials, speaking to senior planners from all areas.   I feel it is unfair to continually keep criticising the work that members of MIA do and so for that reason the posts on this subject which contain information  will now cease on the forum, which is a shame but now a necessity   Over and Out  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 18, 2011, 02:03:07 PM
Just one last thing Dave how have the rumours been disproved if anything the so called rumours are now taking shape.  Did you now that the new road has had men sizing up and when asked were not from the council, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus has also had planners sizing up, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus can only build on the car park, so if they are not building up how do they intend to house the Hibbert Lane students. 
And as I have said till I am blue in the face ......  If this is such a flipping good idea and will benefit my children your children and our children's , childrens education, why oh why did CAMSFC try to get it into planning without consultation with the community and why was Ms Cassidy so outraged when she found out that the plans had been leaked to the community, remember the two leaked emails that I posted on the web and CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed.
  I have also got a leaked resignation letter from a governor who lives local  who stood down because he was totally against the plans which he knew would destroy our community i have also spoken at great length to another local Governor who has stood down because of the plans and how they had tried to speak to Ms Cassidy about the impact a supermarket of that size would have in a residential area .  The deputy principal of CAMSFC has also resigned after less than a year in post  And surprise surprise Mr Grant (Chair of Governors )  is also standing down soon, whats that saying about leaving a sinking ship.

So once again I would ask you all to look at the facts and ask yourself, why are CAMSFC even refusing our MPs invitations to speak to the community or enter into alternative proposals for the site with SMBC and the
councillors. 
Its very plain to me that CAMSFC have been caught out, because if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who
worked  at the college the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser and all this would have gone ahead and the first we would have known about it was when a notice was attached to a lamp post.
  So Dave I suggest that if you put more time into investigating the facts, weighing up the evidence you could develop a greater understanding of the issues and I really do feel that if you do not live near the site or will be effected by this development it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on September 18, 2011, 02:47:36 PM
Just one last thing Dave how have the rumours been disproved if anything the so called rumours are now taking shape.  Did you now that the new road has had men sizing up and when asked were not from the council, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus has also had planners sizing up, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus can only build on the car park, so if they are not building up how do they intend to house the Hibbert Lane students.  
And as I have said till I am blue in the face ......  If this is such a flipping good idea and will benefit my children your children and our children's , childrens education, why oh why did CAMSFC try to get it into planning without consultation with the community and why was Ms Cassidy so outraged when she found out that the plans had been leaked to the community, remember the two leaked emails that I posted on the web and CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed.
  I have also got a leaked resignation letter from a governor who lives local  who stood down because he was totally against the plans which he knew would destroy our community i have also spoken at great length to another local Governor who has stood down because of the plans and how they had tried to speak to Ms Cassidy about the impact a supermarket of that size would have in a residential area .  The deputy principal of CAMSFC has also resigned after less than a year in post  And surprise surprise Mr Grant (Chair of Governors )  is also standing down soon, whats that saying about leaving a sinking ship.

So once again I would ask you all to look at the facts and ask yourself, why are CAMSFC even refusing our MPs invitations to speak to the community or enter into alternative proposals for the site with SMBC and the
councillors.  
Its very plain to me that CAMSFC have been caught out, because if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who
worked  at the college the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser and all this would have gone ahead and the first we would have known about it was when a notice was attached to a lamp post.
  So Dave I suggest that if you put more time into investigating the facts, weighing up the evidence you could develop a greater understanding of the issues and I really do feel that if you do not live near the site or will be effected by this development it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts.  


So what if people have been measuring roads and the sites? That is absolutely standard practice if you are looking to submit a major planning application - you need to survey the relevant areas to be able to make proper investigations re: infrstructure, levels, widths, etc. I would be absolutely stunned if that had not taken place. I'm afraid trying to suggest that its all a bit sinister is completely misleading.

With regards to consultation with the community - some pre-planning application consultation is encouraged but you would usually do this once you have a good idea what it is you are proposing to build. I.e. you present relatively detailed plans, visuals, facts and figures for public review and comment. CAMSFC were clearly not in any position to do this when the idea of the sheme was initially leaked (they didn't even have a purchaser for the site) so its hardly surprising that we have not had that much information from them. Since the leaks, they have had to deal with a major pressure group who see fit to  rubbish anything put out in the public domain, so its hardly surprising they have been reticient to drip feed information or engage until they get all their ducks in a row.

Ultimately, even if we do end up having to wait until notices of an application go up on lamposts, the formal planning consultation stage will be substantive (at least 3 months) and we will have plenty of opportunity to read all relevant documentation and prepare a response. Given that SMBC have already stated that major retail use would be against the local plan designation of the site and that they would refuse it, this effectively means that MIA have won the initial battle at least. If CAMSFC do ultimately take matters to appeal, its unlikley that we will have any decision until the towards the end of next year at the earliest. Its going to be a long haul for all parties.

Think what you like about Dave's responses. I find them measured, thoughtful and seeking to cut through a lot of the hysteria that has been generated regarding the proposals. If you are going to stop publishing 'rumours', due to the fact that he questions their validity, then I don't think that this messageboard will be any the worse for that and I don't feel that I would be any worse informed. If you or MIA decide to stop posting well researched and evidenced 'facts' (which I don't see Dave taking issue with) then yes, we will have all lost out.

Facts are still quite light on the ground in this saga, but supposition and "2+2=5", is very evident. The community should be able to make up their minds up on whatever scheme is finally submitted, and not a 'virtual' scheme put about by those who fear the worst. In the information vacuum, I'm still holding my breath......

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on September 18, 2011, 02:54:45 PM
Superb post Belly
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 18, 2011, 03:03:06 PM
Just one last thing Dave how have the rumours been disproved if anything the so called rumours are now taking shape.  Did you now that the new road has had men sizing up and when asked were not from the council, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus has also had planners sizing up, did you know that the Buxton Lane Campus can only build on the car park, so if they are not building up how do they intend to house the Hibbert Lane students.  
And as I have said till I am blue in the face ......  If this is such a flipping good idea and will benefit my children your children and our children's , childrens education, why oh why did CAMSFC try to get it into planning without consultation with the community and why was Ms Cassidy so outraged when she found out that the plans had been leaked to the community, remember the two leaked emails that I posted on the web and CAMSFC contacted Admin to have them removed.

 exelent posting .   


  I have also got a leaked resignation letter from a governor who lives local  who stood down because he was totally against the plans which he knew would destroy our community i have also spoken at great length to another local Governor who has stood down because of the plans and how they had tried to speak to Ms Cassidy about the impact a supermarket of that size would have in a residential area .  The deputy principal of CAMSFC has also resigned after less than a year in post  And surprise surprise Mr Grant (Chair of Governors )  is also standing down soon, whats that saying about leaving a sinking ship.

So once again I would ask you all to look at the facts and ask yourself, why are CAMSFC even refusing our MPs invitations to speak to the community or enter into alternative proposals for the site with SMBC and the
councillors.  
Its very plain to me that CAMSFC have been caught out, because if it hadn't been for a friend of mine who
worked  at the college the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser and all this would have gone ahead and the first we would have known about it was when a notice was attached to a lamp post.
  So Dave I suggest that if you put more time into investigating the facts, weighing up the evidence you could develop a greater understanding of the issues and I really do feel that if you do not live near the site or will be effected by this development it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts.  


So what if people have been measuring roads and the sites? That is absolutely standard practice if you are looking to submit a major planning application - you need to survey the relevant areas to be able to make proper investigations re: infrstructure, levels, widths, etc. I would be absolutely stunned if that had not taken place. I'm afraid trying to suggest that its all a bit sinister is completely misleading.

With regards to consultation with the community - some pre-planning application consultation is encouraged but you would usually do this once you have a good idea what it is you are proposing to build. I.e. you present relatively detailed plans, visuals, facts and figures for public review and comment. CAMSFC were clearly not in any position to do this when the idea of the sheme was initially leaked (they didn't even have a purchaser for the site) so its hardly surprising that we have not had that much information from them. Since the leaks, they have had to deal with a major pressure group who see fit to  rubbish anything put out in the public domain, so its hardly surprising they have been reticient to drip feed information or engage until they get all their ducks in a row.

Ultimately, even if we do end up having to wait until notices of an application go up on lamposts, the formal planning consultation stage will be substantive (at least 3 months) and we will have plenty of opportunity to read all relevant documentation and prepare a response. Given that SMBC have already stated that major retail use would be against the local plan designation of the site and that they would refuse it, this effectively means that MIA have won the initial battle at least. If CAMSFC do ultimately take matters to appeal, its unlikley that we will have any decision until the towards the end of next year at the earliest. Its going to be a long haul for all parties.

Think what you like about Dave's responses. I find them measured, thoughtful and seeking to cut through a lot of the hysteria that has been generated regarding the proposals. If you are going to stop publishing 'rumours', due to the fact that he questions their validity, then I don't think that this messageboard will be any the worse for that and I don't feel that I would be any worse informed. If you or MIA decide to stop posting well researched and evidenced 'facts' (which I don't see Dave taking issue with) then yes, we will have all lost out.

Facts are still quite light on the ground in this saga, but supposition and "2+2=5", is very evident. The community should be able to make up their minds up on whatever scheme is finally submitted, and not a 'virtual' scheme put about by those who fear the worst. In the information vacuum, I'm still holding my breath......


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 18, 2011, 03:08:39 PM
Exactly my point !  Thank you all  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 18, 2011, 04:05:26 PM
Thanks for that Tina ! One of my first calls will be to Stockport senior planners on Monday because that's where the information has come from.  I will also speak to Ms Cassidy's PA and find out why they have mis informed you, did you give your name to CAMSFC  so I can identify you ? as  this is important and the truth needs to be out. 


Yes ofcause I gave my name, I don't hide behind a made up name. I used my own personal email address.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 18, 2011, 04:10:33 PM
Thanks for that Tina ! One of my first calls will be to Stockport senior planners on Monday because that's where the information has come from.  I will also speak to Ms Cassidy's PA and find out why they have mis informed you, did you give your name to CAMSFC  so I can identify you ? as  this is important and the truth needs to be out. 


Yes ofcause I gave my name, I don't hide behind a made up name. I used my own personal email address.
Thanks for that .  And I know it really gets on my wick when people hide behind a name !   Did you hear that Trixe Stirup  lol  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 18, 2011, 06:41:28 PM
Dave as we have informed you before all our information comes from leaked sources so I think the time has now come for MIA to stop posting on this site

I think it is a sensible move for MIA to stop posting anonymously 'leaked' information which cannot be verified.   Thank you for that. 

it is really unfair for you to continually pass poor judgement without having the facts. 

The fact is that camsfc is not going to relocate away from Marple.  We know this for three reasons:

1.  The college's governors have been advised that a sale of all three of their sites, to fund a completely new building on a new site (e.g. at Jacksons Lane) would have a funding gap of around £45 million.  That means that the proceeds of selling the three sites would be £45 million less than they would need for the new building.  (Source of this information: governors' minutes posted on this forum.)  There is absolutely no way they could bridge that gap,.  The turnover of the college is only £15 million - no bank or other lender is ever going to lend them three times their turnover! 

2.   Even if they did find some crazy bank to lend them £45 million, and managed to build a completely new college somewhere else, they would lose loads of students, and therefore income.     Many Marple kids would vote with their feet and apply elsewhere.  Alongside that, many of the Cheadle students come from places like Didsbury and Burnage - acorss the border in Manchester.  Are they going to trek out to Hazel Grove?  Er, no! 

3.  The principal has said so - to Tina (see above) and also to our MP, who told me so in a letter. 

So can we please put this ridiculous rumour to bed   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on September 18, 2011, 06:48:39 PM
Daves posts are great  .... well measured and thoughtful  ... to me his posts are realistic, they see the big picture
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 18, 2011, 09:58:01 PM
I agree  :-\. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 19, 2011, 08:28:40 AM
I agree  :-\. 

Dave just a thought !  Why would you believe emails from other people and not from me  :D. I have said it before and i will say it again , I do believe you just try to wind people up to achieve a greater debate !  And that's great as it lightens the subject, so keep them coming you  cheeky chappie  ;D lol lol  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 19, 2011, 10:29:20 AM
It's nothing to do with belief or disbelief, Miss M.  It's about distinguishing between verifiable information on the one hand, and rumour and conspiracy theories, on the other.  That's all. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 19, 2011, 07:15:42 PM
Dave,
Here are the facts.
The college wants to sell the Hibbert Lane site for £12 million pounds.
On the Hibbert Lane site are all the science labs, Art departments, sports hall & library.
If the college wants to continue providing science, art & sports courses in Marple these facilities will have to be built on the Buxton lane site, on the existing car park (planning regulations).
Do you think all this can be built for £12M?
If you do know a builder who can do this for that price please can I have his details because I need an extension building!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 19, 2011, 08:07:48 PM
I'm a bit out of date on building costs, but I reckon they could probably build about 5,000 sq.m (50,000 sq ft) of floor space for that. They probably need more than that, so they'll need to borrow, I expect.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 10:28:16 AM
Just returned from a demonstration outside the college where we were shown lots of support not only from the community, passing traffic but from college staff and students.  What was quite concerning was that the students we spoke to were saying that the college is not being sold and that they had been told that by the college.  It's all very strange so if this is for the benefit of our community and most importantly our children's future education why are we all not rejoicing and why does the college not inform it's staff, teachers and students.   Sorry I smell a rat call me what you will but anyone with an ounce of intelligence must see that this is a surreal situation. 
NB before someone says how would you expect the corporation to speak to MIA given our opposition, the corporation has had many opportunities to speak to other organisations but continually refuses WHY ! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2011, 11:08:52 AM
Of course the college isn't being sold.  As we know, MIA have been disgracefully putting about misinformation that the college's plans are a 'smokescreen' for moving away from Marple altogether.    This nonsense would understandably have alarmed students and their families, and the college is presumably setting the record straight and their minds at rest. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 11:30:38 AM
Sorry I have not explained myself, so correction.  The students were informed that the Hibbert Lane campus was not being sold.   Oh Dave I hope you are right about everything but sadly things are not as black and White as you think they are, and for that reason I wish I lived in your world  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2011, 12:13:52 PM
I suspect your students may have got the wrong end of the stick, Miss M - it has been known.......    ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 01:21:23 PM
Well in this case I do hope they are right and all education can stay on the two sites for the increasing population of Marple.   I am no Business person but one thing I do know is that you never get rid of one of your greatest  assets and the way forward could be loaning monies against the building which should be a fail proof thing to do if your college is thriving  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 26, 2011, 02:15:57 PM
Alright, there seems to be some confusion as to what the college has told students,
well, as a student at CAMSFC I shall settle this.
At the induction assembly the head of faculty Told us that "there is no current sale, anything that does happen will be in the best interests of the students, and that The college has no plans to tesco"

Hope that clears that one up   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 02:20:24 PM
Alright, there seems to be some confusion as to what the college has told students,
well, as a student at CAMSFC I shall settle this.
At the induction assembly the head of faculty Told us that "there is no current sale, anything that does happen will be in the best interests of the students, and that The college has no plans to tesco"

Hope that clears that one up   ;)

What about ASDA their preferred favourite ?  But thanks for clearing that up because there are a lot of mixed messages going around but thats no surprise because even the teachers have been kept in the dark !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 26, 2011, 02:31:42 PM
There was no mention of asda, only that they "had no plans to sell to tesco".
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2011, 02:32:50 PM
"there is no current sale.............The college has no plans to tesco"

'It takes two to tesco'?  ;D

But seriously, that does make sense of it.   The college's main concern at the moment will be to reassure new students that their two years at the college will not be disrupted by any move.

Now where have I seen that 'we have no plans' formula before?  Oh, I remember, it was before the last election: 'we have no plans to raise VAT'......   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 26, 2011, 02:37:06 PM
Just returned from a demonstration outside the college where we were shown lots of support not only from the community, passing traffic but from college staff and students.  What was quite concerning was that the students we spoke to were saying that the college is not being sold and that they had been told that by the college.  It's all very strange so if this is for the benefit of our community and most importantly our children's future education why are we all not rejoicing and why does the college not inform it's staff, teachers and students.   Sorry I smell a rat call me what you will but anyone with an ounce of intelligence must see that this is a surreal situation. 
NB before someone says how would you expect the corporation to speak to MIA given our opposition, the corporation has had many opportunities to speak to other organisations but continually refuses WHY ! 

Was the demonstaration for the benefit of ofsted? how low can you go?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 26, 2011, 02:42:50 PM
I personally don't see any problem with holding a demonstration outside college providing it was done in accordance to the law.
It could be deemed as similar to, I don't know, The "yes" campaigners going to a MIA meeting?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 26, 2011, 02:59:31 PM
It could be deemed as similar to, I don't know, The "yes" campaigners going to a MIA meeting?


Not quite Daniel, we was invited to attend. And did not make a nuisence of ourselves or have a demonstration
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 26, 2011, 03:01:55 PM
You still took part in a meeting which had been set up by the other side  ;)
But anyway, the fact of the matter is that the demonstration went ahead whilst ofsted were at the college, Although I think most of the inspectors were busy in interviews.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2011, 03:06:55 PM
No doubt this morning's demo was indeed for the benefit of ofsted, but it will have achieved nothing. As we know, the inspectors were not impressed by the Hibbert Lane premises on their last visit, and they will be expecting the college to have addressed their concerns. The fact that there is a bit of local opposition will neither surprise them nor concern them.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
No doubt this morning's demo was indeed for the benefit of ofsted, but it will have achieved nothing. As we know, the inspectors were not impressed by the Hibbert Lane premises on their last visit, and they will be expecting the college to have addressed their concerns. The fact that there is a bit of local opposition will neither surprise them nor concern them.

Oh it did, it took them all by surprise they were not happy bunnies , believe me Dave there are not many related departments that are not watching this with interest and of course we have spoken to Ofsted and all intrested parties many many times.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 26, 2011, 03:17:47 PM
Just returned from a demonstration outside the college where we were shown lots of support not only from the community, passing traffic but from college staff and students.  What was quite concerning was that the students we spoke to were saying that the college is not being sold and that they had been told that by the college.  It's all very strange so if this is for the benefit of our community and most importantly our children's future education why are we all not rejoicing and why does the college not inform it's staff, teachers and students.   Sorry I smell a rat call me what you will but anyone with an ounce of intelligence must see that this is a surreal situation. 
NB before someone says how would you expect the corporation to speak to MIA given our opposition, the corporation has had many opportunities to speak to other organisations but continually refuses WHY ! 


Was the demonstaration for the benefit of ofsted? how low can you go?


Well not that low in comparison to some. MIA resisted the use of shotguns,tools,fireworks and spamming.People in glass houses should not throw stones!!Thats deffo is huz wiv me? I do realise a lot of people will not have seen where The above delightful piece of creative writing came from. You don't need to,it's sickening >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 03:38:20 PM
Well said Trixe it's about time we came out fighting I am sick and tired of certain posters continued moaning and fire starting possibly best if we all start to ignore these posts as we are only giving the YES campaign a platform.   And my last point WHAT have you done Tina to get information or get the facts!  Sorry I didnt hear you  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 03:40:04 PM
You still took part in a meeting which had been set up by the other side  ;)
But anyway, the fact of the matter is that the demonstration went ahead whilst ofsted were at the college, Although I think most of the inspectors were busy in interviews.

No we greeted them going in and handed out information !  We were up and out early, oh too early !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
It could be deemed as similar to, I don't know, The "yes" campaigners going to a MIA meeting?


Not quite Daniel, we was invited to attend. And did not make a nuisence of ourselves or have a demonstration

There were only six of you ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 26, 2011, 03:50:45 PM
I read somewhere on this forum that they were 10 of them, thats a 40% increase! (or buy 6, get 4 free) <-- sorry, couldn't resist  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 26, 2011, 03:53:47 PM
I read somewhere on this forum that they were 10 of them, thats a 40% increase! (or buy 6, get 4 free) <-- sorry, couldn't resist  :P
No it said that there were ten at the photo shoot on Sat , picture coming soon !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on September 26, 2011, 03:58:45 PM
I read somewhere on this forum that they were 10 of them, thats a 40% increase! (or buy 6, get 4 free) <-- sorry, couldn't resist  :P
No it said that there were ten at the photo shoot on Sat , picture coming soon !

*feels like hes just made an idiot of himself*  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on September 27, 2011, 09:59:35 PM
Just been to Question Time at Buxton Lane Campus it was very enjoyable even though I didn't join in the debate.  The panel were very informative especially when it came to debating the proposed sale of the Hibbert Lane Campus lots of intresting points were raised by the panel and like wise the questions from the audience were well thought out, and received well thought out responses   All in all it was a very interesting and productive debate and provided a lot of useful information for MIA  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on September 27, 2011, 11:00:06 PM
Just been to Question Time at Buxton Lane Campus it was very enjoyable even though I didn't join in the debate.  The panel were very informative especially when it came to debating the proposed sale of the Hibbert Lane Campus lots of intresting points were raised by the panel and like wise the questions from the audience were well thought out, and received well thought out responses   All in all it was a very interesting and productive debate and provided a lot of useful information for MIA  ;)

I'd liked to have gone to that, I thought it was gardeners QT tonight
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 28, 2011, 03:38:15 PM
Was your identical twin brother there by any chance?If so, he could could enlighten you of it's content. :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 01, 2011, 03:52:56 PM
Just noticed the newspaper bill boards 'Support for a Supermarket '. I wondered why the Action Line was getting calls about where the supermarket is to be built from interested residents who believe it or not are still not aware it is planned for the Hibbert Lane site, once informed they were appalled or amazed.   So good publicity whatever way you look at it .  I am a great believer in that well known saying 'you are only as good as your opposition '
Lots more signatures again today for our fast growing petition which has now over 7,000 What A Team !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 05, 2011, 10:03:26 PM
We have had requests for more posters so if you have not managed to down load one they will be on the MIA stall this Sat in Market St
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 05, 2011, 10:09:01 PM
Just heard on the news that 16 check out staff have won the lottery at the Hyde Store so lots of job vacancies there now  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on October 06, 2011, 08:45:36 AM
I am not sure that you could find anyone who would agree that Whaley Bridge's shops have improved since Tesco arrived. Glossop had strong local independents before Tesco and contiues to do so. Buxton is a larger town than either of these others (and Marple) and the main street remains a depressing retail experience in a historic town that should be able to rival Harrogate.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on October 06, 2011, 09:58:44 AM
I am not sure that you could find anyone who would agree that Whaley Bridge's shops have improved since Tesco arrived. Glossop had strong local independents before Tesco and contiues to do so. Buxton is a larger town than either of these others (and Marple) and the main street remains a depressing retail experience in a historic town that should be able to rival Harrogate.

I would have agreed that Buxton was the larger of the above towns, but a quick check reveals the following populations:

Glossop          32,428
Marple            23,480
Buxton            20,836
Whaley Bridge   6,226

All figures taken from the 2001 census (the latest available to me).

Not that it makes any difference at all. Just interesting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 06, 2011, 09:59:34 AM
Glossop had strong local independents before Tesco and contiues to do so.

As does Marple.

Buxton is a larger town than either of these others (and Marple) and the main street remains a depressing retail experience in a historic town that should be able to rival Harrogate.

An interesting point, but the comparison doesn't withstand much inspection!  They are both historic spa towns, with a chilly climate, but that's about all they have in common!  Harrogate has a population of over 70,000. It is fortunate enough to be Leeds's prime middle-class commuter settlement, at the apex of the so-called 'golden triangle' (Ilkley, Wetherby, Harrogate) where property prices are at Wilmslow/Alderley Edge/Hale Barns levels.  Buxton has a population of about 20,000 (less than Marple) and its shops serve an entirely different and much less affluent market.  

The more you think about all this, though, the more you realise that when a new supermarket arrives at a town the consequences are very difficult to predict - it depends so much on a range of local factors, and each case seems to be different.  My hunch is that if it happens in Marple, a few small local shops will suffer in the short term, but other new businesses will take their place, because of the significant increase in the number of people who shop in Marple rather than in Hazel Grove or wherever.   So the medium term effect (over five years or so) will turn out to be positive.  But I could be wrong........
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: moorendman on October 06, 2011, 10:55:41 AM
I must admit to be both wrong and surprised at the relative population sizes of Buxton compared to Marple and Harrogate. I think my mistake come sfrom a perception of each town. Buxton has a Morrisons, waitrose, marks and Spencer and a Tesco, so you could be forgiven for thinking it had a larger population.

I was in Ashbourne last Saturday, now theres another place to consider when it comes to a healthy set of local shops sitting side by side with two supermarkets ( sainsbury and waitrose) but then again Ashnourne like Buxton is a Market Town supporting a larger hinterland of country.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on October 06, 2011, 11:22:09 AM
I must admit to be both wrong and surprised at the relative population sizes of Buxton compared to Marple and Harrogate. I think my mistake come sfrom a perception of each town. Buxton has a Morrisons, waitrose, marks and Spencer and a Tesco, so you could be forgiven for thinking it had a larger population.

I was in Ashbourne last Saturday, now theres another place to consider when it comes to a healthy set of local shops sitting side by side with two supermarkets ( sainsbury and waitrose) but then again Ashnourne like Buxton is a Market Town supporting a larger hinterland of country.

Buxton has Morrisons, Waitrose, Marks & Spencer and Tesco, plus Sainsburys Local and 2 Co-ops. With a smaller population than Marple, and still with lots of independent shops.

Now that is food for thought.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on October 06, 2011, 01:14:00 PM
Well done on the song lyrics, but there is absolutely zero evidence that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would sound the death knell of the town centre in favour of more big chains.

There's some similarities here to Stalybridge, which was "blessed" with a Tesco on the edge of town a few years ago.  Remaining shops mostly closed down, or became pubs / betting offices / kebab shops.

The sad state of Stalybridge Town Centre (http://tamesidecitizen.blogspot.com/2010/06/sad-state-of-stalybridge-town-centre.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JL_Z4awEAic/TCpIzDShuYI/AAAAAAAAC0Q/hvVBrxDjrtw/s1600/Stalybridge+High+Street.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: ringi on October 06, 2011, 01:51:04 PM
I am not sure that you could find anyone who would agree that Whaley Bridge's shops have improved since Tesco arrived. Glossop had strong local independents before Tesco and contiues to do so. Buxton is a larger town than either of these others (and Marple) and the main street remains a depressing retail experience in a historic town that should be able to rival Harrogate.

I would have agreed that Buxton was the larger of the above towns, but a quick check reveals the following populations:

Glossop          32,428
Marple            23,480
Buxton            20,836
Whaley Bridge   6,226

All figures taken from the 2001 census (the latest available to me).

Not that it makes any difference at all. Just interesting.

Sorry this post has got longer then I was hoping…

I don’t think the population numbers are that meaningful on their own, we need to know how many people have no other close by option for shopping, where “close by” is defined relative to the distance to other options.

I think there a lot of people that live outside of Buxton, but are a lot closer to Buxton than anywhere else.  There are also all the day-trippers and holiday makers that do there food shopping while visiting Buxton.

So without comparative drive time figures between each postcode segment and shopping locations, as well as the data about the population numbers for each segment split by “shopper type”, there is very little chance of understanding the effect of these population numbers.   No one outside of the planning departments of the big shop chains have the access to the data and the systems to process it, yet alone the skills to understand it.

(A long time ago I worked on such a system that was used by our customers to work out if they would benefit from say a new road, and therefore if they should offer to pay for the new road as part of the planning deal.  It is complex, as for example, it was claimed that changing a drive time that was 20 minutes to 18 minutes for your compactor can have more effect then changing a drive time from 10 minutes to 5 minutes for your shop)

We also need to understand that it is very likely a lot of the shops in place locations like Stalybridge would have close regardless of a new supermarket being built.   (I now do most of my book shopping for example on line, and have not brought a book from a bookshop other than a charity shop for years)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on October 06, 2011, 02:10:07 PM
It's good to see this potential local shop closures issue being debated properly. A central plank of MIA's campaign seems to be that such closures would be inevitable. Yet there is no hard and fast evidence to prove this point. I would trust the Tescopoly campaign on this no more than I would trust the PR departments of this country's biggest retailers, probably less so in fact. But that's my own opinion based somewhat on political leanings.

So apologies for raising the term 'scare-mongering' again but those on the No side seem to have been convinced that the town centre would be a ghost town soon after the opening of any new supermarket on Hibbert Lane. I was struck at the rally in the park by how widely this crystal ball gazing has been accepted as an incontrovertible truth, when my own eyes tell me that there are many towns close to us that support large supermarkets (slightly out of the town centre) and thriving local shops.

Sadly we can't clone Marple and run a parallel universe type experiment, so whatever does come to pass no one will know what would have happened under the alternative scenario.

Anyway, off topic slightly but I'm looking forward to popping into the co-op soon for all my legal needs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15187154 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15187154)

Quote
Despite the title Tesco Law, the supermarket has said it has "no current plans to offer legal services". But the Co-operative was among the first stores to say it was interested in offering a legal business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on October 06, 2011, 02:11:46 PM
Well done on the song lyrics, but there is absolutely zero evidence that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would sound the death knell of the town centre in favour of more big chains.

There's some similarities here to Stalybridge, which was "blessed" with a Tesco on the edge of town a few years ago.  Remaining shops mostly closed down, or became pubs / betting offices / kebab shops.

The sad state of Stalybridge Town Centre (http://tamesidecitizen.blogspot.com/2010/06/sad-state-of-stalybridge-town-centre.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JL_Z4awEAic/TCpIzDShuYI/AAAAAAAAC0Q/hvVBrxDjrtw/s1600/Stalybridge+High+Street.jpg)


I don't think a picture of a deserted town centre proves anything. It could have been taken on a Sunday.

Here's Marple's Market Street, on the run up to Christmas, with the shops open.

(http://www.marplebusinessforum.co.uk/templates/mbf2/images/header.jpg)

Not a soul to be seen.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on October 06, 2011, 02:16:21 PM
Well done on the song lyrics, but there is absolutely zero evidence that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would sound the death knell of the town centre in favour of more big chains.

There's some similarities here to Stalybridge, which was "blessed" with a Tesco on the edge of town a few years ago.  Remaining shops mostly closed down, or became pubs / betting offices / kebab shops.

The sad state of Stalybridge Town Centre (http://tamesidecitizen.blogspot.com/2010/06/sad-state-of-stalybridge-town-centre.html)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JL_Z4awEAic/TCpIzDShuYI/AAAAAAAAC0Q/hvVBrxDjrtw/s1600/Stalybridge+High+Street.jpg)


I don't think a picture of a deserted town centre proves anything. It could have been taken on a Sunday.

Here's Marple's Market Street, on the run up to Christmas, with the shops open.

(http://www.marplebusinessforum.co.uk/templates/mbf2/images/header.jpg)

Not a soul to be seen.




Good point, what is really needed is shop occupancy rates for comparable towns near Marple and for Marple itself. That would not be proof of what would happen in the future of course, but it would be the most relevant possible information to get us to a best guess.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 06, 2011, 02:59:37 PM
whatever does come to pass no one will know what would have happened under the alternative scenario.

A very good point.  No doubt MIA supporters have a variety of views and motivations for supporting the campaign.  But one common factor, I suspect, is fear of change.  However, the reality is that change is going to happen anyway - it always does.    It may not be as sudden or as visible as a new Tesco, but it can be just as significant.  I've lived here for nearly 30 years, and the area has changed hugely in that time (mostly for the better), and no doubt it will continue to do so, with or without a supermarket on Hibbert Lane..   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on October 06, 2011, 03:09:56 PM

Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on October 06, 2011, 03:16:47 PM
1000th POST IN THIS THREAD!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mum_of_2 on October 06, 2011, 05:15:58 PM
It's good to see this potential local shop closures issue being debated properly. A central plank of MIA's campaign seems to be that such closures would be inevitable. Yet there is no hard and fast evidence to prove this point. I would trust the Tescopoly campaign on this no more than I would trust the PR departments of this country's biggest retailers, probably less so in fact. But that's my own opinion based somewhat on political leanings.

So apologies for raising the term 'scare-mongering' again but those on the No side seem to have been convinced that the town centre would be a ghost town soon after the opening of any new supermarket on Hibbert Lane. I was struck at the rally in the park by how widely this crystal ball gazing has been accepted as an incontrovertible truth, when my own eyes tell me that there are many towns close to us that support large supermarkets (slightly out of the town centre) and thriving local shops.

Sadly we can't clone Marple and run a parallel universe type experiment, so whatever does come to pass no one will know what would have happened under the alternative scenario.

Anyway, off topic slightly but I'm looking forward to popping into the co-op soon for all my legal needs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15187154 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15187154)

Quote
Despite the title Tesco Law, the supermarket has said it has "no current plans to offer legal services". But the Co-operative was among the first stores to say it was interested in offering a legal business.
I agree henry!!.

As well as scaremongering, i yet again bring up the point about MIAs constant contradictions. They dont want a supermarket on hibbert lane as they believe marple wouldbe a ghost town.....yet they feel one smack bang in the town centre is acceptable......confused? Arnt we all!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on October 06, 2011, 05:41:33 PM
It's good to see this potential local shop closures issue being debated properly. A central plank of MIA's campaign seems to be that such closures would be inevitable. Yet there is no hard and fast evidence to prove this point. I would trust the Tescopoly campaign on this no more than I would trust the PR departments of this country's biggest retailers, probably less so in fact. But that's my own opinion based somewhat on political leanings.

So apologies for raising the term 'scare-mongering' again but those on the No side seem to have been convinced that the town centre would be a ghost town soon after the opening of any new supermarket on Hibbert Lane. I was struck at the rally in the park by how widely this crystal ball gazing has been accepted as an incontrovertible truth, when my own eyes tell me that there are many towns close to us that support large supermarkets (slightly out of the town centre) and thriving local shops.

Sadly we can't clone Marple and run a parallel universe type experiment, so whatever does come to pass no one will know what would have happened under the alternative scenario.

Anyway, off topic slightly but I'm looking forward to popping into the co-op soon for all my legal needs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15187154 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15187154)

Quote
Despite the title Tesco Law, the supermarket has said it has "no current plans to offer legal services". But the Co-operative was among the first stores to say it was interested in offering a legal business.
I agree henry!!.

As well as scaremongering, i yet again bring up the point about MIAs constant contradictions. They dont want a supermarket on hibbert lane as they believe marple wouldbe a ghost town.....yet they feel one smack bang in the town centre is acceptable......confused? Arnt we all!!

This is taken from a post I made in the thread 'A shop that does not open when I wish to shop might as well not be there...'

MIA's campaign is 'No to supermarket on Hibbert Lane'. There should be no ambiguity about this. MIA would welcome a new supermarket within the district centre of Marple to provide competition for the Co-op and choice for local residents. This would bring more people into Marple which can only be seen as a good thing for the community and local businesses. The issue with Hibbert Lane is that it is not within the retail zone, as laid down by the council and is just far enough away from the centre to draw shoppers away from other shops.

Hope that helps clarify things - I don't know how else to make it clearer  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 06:11:34 PM
Well there are no more meetings or talks  planned todate by MIA, with anyone or anybody until after the governors meeting on 17th Oct so let's all wait and see what happens ! You could say MIA are conserving their  energy  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on October 06, 2011, 06:12:45 PM
(http://www.marplepartnership.org.uk/mapx600.jpg)

Looking at the District Centre map, the area the Co-op occupies now is, of course, included within the district centre.

BUT

I imagine that this map's boundary would have changed when that space became retail and Aeroquip was demolished back in the 80's..?

Just for curiosities sake I'd like to see the 70's version of the map


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on October 06, 2011, 06:56:59 PM
Well there are no more meetings or talks  planned todate by MIA, with anyone or anybody until after the governors meeting on 17th Oct so let's all wait and see what happens ! You could say MIA are conserving their  energy  ;)

Will MIA not be attending the area committee meeting on the 12th then?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 06:58:11 PM
No we have no plans to attend because the governors are not attending so it would be a waste of time, all our questions have been answered by the councillors and planners so it's not worth turning people out to hear what they already know,  so unless Ms Cassidy and the corporation agree to attend, which to date they have not but if they do decide to enter into a question and answer session we will be there !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on October 06, 2011, 07:02:26 PM
No we have no plans to attend ?

Sorry must be a mistake. maybe I need glasses!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 07:05:18 PM
No we have no plans to attend ?

Sorry must be a mistake. maybe I need glasses!

I am not sure what you mean sorry
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 06, 2011, 07:42:53 PM
MIA would welcome a new supermarket within the district centre of Marple to provide competition for the Co-op and choice for local residents. This would bring more people into Marple which can only be seen as a good thing for the community and local businesses. Hope that helps clarify things - I don't know how else to make it clearer  ???

I think what confuses some of us is that one of MIA's main reasons for campaigning against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane is that it would cause greatly increased traffic congestion in Marple.  But surely that's no different from what would happen if the supermarket were right in the centre of the shopping area. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 07:44:55 PM
No we have no plans to attend because the governors are not attending so it would be a waste of time, all our questions have been answered by the councillors and planners so it's not worth turning people out to hear what they already know,  so unless Ms Cassidy and the corporation agree to attend, which to date they have not but if they do decide to enter into a question and answer session we will be there !

Sorry    It should have read (I must need glasses). MIA will be attending if it is a question and answer session with the corporation, Ms Cassidy , planners and elected members.  As we don't think Ms Cassidy and the corporation will attend, as they have not responded to anyone not even the councillors  We will be attending to get questions which have recently come to light answered by planners and councillors and this time we want answers not a lecture or a debate, time is ticking !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 07:47:51 PM
MIA would welcome a new supermarket within the district centre of Marple to provide competition for the Co-op and choice for local residents. This would bring more people into Marple which can only be seen as a good thing for the community and local businesses. Hope that helps clarify things - I don't know how else to make it clearer  ???

I think what confuses some of us is that one of MIA's main reasons for campaigning against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane is that it would cause greatly increased traffic congestion in Marple.  But surely that's no different from what would happen if the supermarket were right in the centre of the shopping area. 
Ah come to the meeting Dave if you need answers because I will  be getting my questions answered have no doubt about that !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belle Star on October 06, 2011, 07:55:50 PM
MIA would welcome a new supermarket within the district centre of Marple to provide competition for the Co-op and choice for local residents. This would bring more people into Marple which can only be seen as a good thing for the community and local businesses. Hope that helps clarify things - I don't know how else to make it clearer  ???

I think what confuses some of us is that one of MIA's main reasons for campaigning against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane is that it would cause greatly increased traffic congestion in Marple.  But surely that's no different from what would happen if the supermarket were right in the centre of the shopping area. 

If a new supermarket were to open within the district centre it would have to be considerably smaller than what could potentially be built on a 8.5 acre site so would not draw as many people from surrounding areas and therefore not increase traffic as much as a larger store on Hibbert Lane would do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on October 06, 2011, 08:45:00 PM
No we have no plans to attend because the governors are not attending so it would be a waste of time, all our questions have been answered by the councillors and planners so it's not worth turning people out to hear what they already know,  so unless Ms Cassidy and the corporation agree to attend, which to date they have not but if they do decide to enter into a question and answer session we will be there !

Sorry    It should have read (I must need glasses). MIA will be attending if it is a question and answer session with the corporation, Ms Cassidy , planners and elected members.  As we don't think Ms Cassidy and the corporation will attend, as they have not responded to anyone not even the councillors  We will be attending to get questions which have recently come to light answered by planners and councillors and this time we want answers not a lecture or a debate, time is ticking !

It was a honest question and you tried to do your usual trick... You answered my question.. "No we have no plans to attend?"   then decided after I said I need glasses to add more on and then try to cover it up. Did you think I didn't know about it?

I try so hard to be polite when you contine to behave in this way!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on October 06, 2011, 08:56:03 PM
MIA would welcome a new supermarket within the district centre of Marple to provide competition for the Co-op and choice for local residents. This would bring more people into Marple which can only be seen as a good thing for the community and local businesses. Hope that helps clarify things - I don't know how else to make it clearer  ???

I think what confuses some of us is that one of MIA's main reasons for campaigning against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane is that it would cause greatly increased traffic congestion in Marple.  But surely that's no different from what would happen if the supermarket were right in the centre of the shopping area. 

If a new supermarket were to open within the district centre it would have to be considerably smaller than what could potentially be built on a 8.5 acre site so would not draw as many people from surrounding areas and therefore not increase traffic as much as a larger store on Hibbert Lane would do.

It wouldn't actually be a supermarket. It would be a large convenience store at best (and there are plenty of those already). There is no room for another supermarket in the centre of Marple. So when MIA say 'we don't mind another supermarket in Marple just not on Hibbert Lane' what they really mean is 'we don't want another supermarket in Marple on the only currently feasible site where one could be built.' Ergo 'we don't want another supermarket in Marple'.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 08:56:17 PM
Flipping heck Tina I would be more than a little concerned if you didn't know about it !  Lol.  ;D.   It was just that a few things needed tweaking before we committed, so I made a few phone calls and now it's been tweaked we are attending.  Hey hope the weathers better than tonight  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 06, 2011, 11:08:09 PM
The problem with MIA is neatly summed up by today's post on the locked 'Latest News' thread, which describes the college's plans as  'our community ruined to satisfy corporate greed.'

The notion that much needed improvements to this community's local college, a public sector body where nearly all of our children and grandchildren do their A levels, are dismissed as 'corporate greed' is a disgraceful distortion of the truth.  I hope that whoever wrote it will reconsider that description and use more appropriate language. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 06, 2011, 11:24:22 PM
Dave I sometimes think that you forget that MIA is against a supermarket on Hibbert so the statement says what the NO campaign thinks needs to be stated and I am sure if it was offensive Admin would not have put it on.

I would ask everyone to consider where would our children's education be if all 6th form colleges were allowed to dispose of land ?   I am sure we would all have something to say about that  As I have said many times before this is not about 2p off a tin of beans, it's to in someway stop a precedence being set. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 07, 2011, 08:09:39 AM
I am sure if it was offensive Admin would not have put it on.

The problem is not that it is 'offensive' - I'm not concerned whether the college is offended by it.  The problem is simply that it isn't true.  'Corporate greed' is a recently coined phrase, I think from America, which is handy for describing selfish and anti-social behaviour by banks and other huge international commercial corporations. A good example, closer to home, would be RBS, which before the 2008 crash made ill advised acquisitions in the hope of making a quick profit, and where the top executives and board members paid themselves multi-million pound bonuses shortly before they were bailed out by us taxpayers.  A local college seeking to improve its facilities on behalf of the community is about as far from 'corporate greed' as you can get!  

I would ask everyone to consider where would our children's education be if all 6th form colleges were allowed to dispose of land?

As I have explained before, sixth-form colleges, like further education colleges and universities, own their own land, and if they need to dispose of some of it in order to improve their facilities they can, and frequently do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 07, 2011, 10:15:35 AM
MIA would welcome a new supermarket within the district centre of Marple to provide competition for the Co-op and choice for local residents. This would bring more people into Marple which can only be seen as a good thing for the community and local businesses. Hope that helps clarify things - I don't know how else to make it clearer  ???

I think what confuses some of us is that one of MIA's main reasons for campaigning against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane is that it would cause greatly increased traffic congestion in Marple.  But surely that's no different from what would happen if the supermarket were right in the centre of the shopping area. 

If a new supermarket were to open within the district centre it would have to be considerably smaller than what could potentially be built on a 8.5 acre site so would not draw as many people from surrounding areas and therefore not increase traffic as much as a larger store on Hibbert Lane would do.

It wouldn't actually be a supermarket. It would be a large convenience store at best (and there are plenty of those already). There is no room for another supermarket in the centre of Marple. So when MIA say 'we don't mind another supermarket in Marple just not on Hibbert Lane' what they really mean is 'we don't want another supermarket in Marple on the only currently feasible site where one could be built.' Ergo 'we don't want another supermarket in Marple'.

And if we did get a large convenience store (eg Tesco Metro or Sainsbury's Local) it would charge inflated prices - they always do.  Drop in at the Sainsbury's Local at Romiley or the new one in New Mills - the prices are eye-watering.    :o   They make the Co-op look positively reasonable........ 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 09, 2011, 12:54:58 PM
This Wed is a very important meeting for the community its the date when we can  ask our elected members, SMBC planning officers  and hopefully Ms Cassidy questions about the  proposal to build a supermarket in the middle of a residential area. 
Since the last Area Committee meeting lots more information has come to light via Freedom Of Information requests and information directly from the community, these questions now require answers and hopefully they will be given on Wednesday and if not the community will remember !
It is important that you attend MIA are mindful that the time for a lot of people commuting is not ideal but please do your best to attend and inform as many people as you can about this important meeting.
We must once again remind all that need reminding that there is STRONG opposition to this proposals and if CAMSFC want to continue with this course of action they will be answerable to every person for years to come,  who will in anyway be effected by this development if it  goes ahead
PLEASE attend Marple needs your help  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 09, 2011, 04:54:35 PM
When did Cllr Alexander cease being a Governor at CAMSFC  maybe this is a question that needs addressing on Wed. The college informed us that they had been looking into this sale for years so did Cllr Alexander know ?  Well I hope to find out on Wed ?

If only there was a Marple councillor in the management team at the college. :-\

Oh wait, here we are : Councillor Shan Alexander ;D

(http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/UserData/7/1/1/Info00000117/bigpic.jpg)

Declaration of interests here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6).

Profile and contact details here (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on October 09, 2011, 07:46:10 PM
Here is a reply from Cllr Alexander received in October 2006 in response to rumours that the land was to be sold:

Sale of land
Cheadle and Marple 6th form College has no intention of selling any land at present. They have asked for a feasibility study on the buildings at both sites. This is to look at the viability or otherwise of running a college on one site and to look at building a college of the future, fit for purpose to achieve the highest standards for students, teacher and all concerned. There has been no planning application sent to the planners at the council.


This was posted on the web site at the time here: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1216.msg4586#msg4586
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on October 09, 2011, 08:29:33 PM
Here is a reply from Cllr Alexander received in October 2006 in response to rumours that the land was to be sold:

Sale of land
Cheadle and Marple 6th form College has no intention of selling any land at present. They have asked for a feasibility study on the buildings at both sites. This is to look at the viability or otherwise of running a college on one site and to look at building a college of the future, fit for purpose to achieve the highest standards for students, teacher and all concerned. There has been no planning application sent to the planners at the council.


This was posted on the web site at the time here: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1216.msg4586#msg4586

Perhaps it's merely an oversight on her / Stockport Council's behalf, but her profile on the council site lists Shan as still acting in a management role at the college. It's dated June 2006.

http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6 (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6), as linked from http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117 (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 09, 2011, 08:55:57 PM
I have looked but I can not find it via the link, how do you find it !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 09, 2011, 09:58:19 PM
I stand to be corrected ! But doesn't that mean that CAMSFC were looking at moving to one building before the Skills Council stopped funding. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 10, 2011, 06:12:30 PM
Latest Statement from CAMSFC.

Well at least we now know so at least the guessing game is over  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 11, 2011, 09:27:46 AM
Here is a reply from Cllr Alexander received in October 2006 in response to rumours that the land was to be sold:

Sale of land
Cheadle and Marple 6th form College has no intention of selling any land at present. They have asked for a feasibility study on the buildings at both sites. This is to look at the viability or otherwise of running a college on one site and to look at building a college of the future, fit for purpose to achieve the highest standards for students, teacher and all concerned. There has been no planning application sent to the planners at the council.


This was posted on the web site at the time here: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=1216.msg4586#msg4586

Perhaps it's merely an oversight on her / Stockport Council's behalf, but her profile on the council site lists Shan as still acting in a management role at the college. It's dated June 2006.

http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6 (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=117&T=6), as linked from http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117 (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=117)

Sorry to be a nit-picker, but it's important to distinguish between a 'management role' and being a governor.  Cllr Alexander was a governor, but she has never, AFAIK, been a manager at the college.

I stand to be corrected ! But doesn't that mean that CAMSFC were looking at moving to one building before the Skills Council stopped funding. 

Yes - but I think we knew that anyway, for example from the 'Sports Hall to Close' thread on this forum which dates from five years ago.  The abolition of the Learning and Skills Council was announced in 2008, although it took another two years before it was completely wound up.  This was triggered by some disastrous financial mismanagement by the LSC, which was extensively covered by the press at the time.  In 2009, the House of Commons Public Accounts Committee described the LSC's handling of its college building programme as 'catastrophic mismanagement'. It resulted in a £2.7 billion debt, with 144 college building contracts having to be terminated abruptly, and leaving many colleges with huge financial penalties for breach of contract with civil engineering companies. Camsfc was likely to have been caught up in this, because it all happened around that time (2006 - 2008).  Luckily, I don't think their plans were so advanced that they lost money through having to terminate building contracts etc. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 11, 2011, 01:40:11 PM
Well we have an opportunity to ask Cllr Alexander tomorrow so that should set the record straight. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 13, 2011, 12:19:19 AM
Very interesting meeting tonight with elected members 3  who are off the fence pledging their support against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.   Dave Goddard Leader of Stockport was  also present and gave his support and said that the council would fight this all the way.
The corporation did not appear and appear not to be answerable to anyone.   Issues about the cost of moving the science labs down to Buston Lane was discussed and also how 12 million would not support the promises made by the college to relocate all amenities and also to build a college for the future.
Good news for all who could not attend the evening is that a video of the evening will be put on the councils web site in a couple of days for all to view.
I am sure that the college will be watching the video  with interest it's just a shame and a disgrace that they can not face the public and be answerable  for this ridiculas proposal  !   SHAME ON YOU CAMSFC !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplemum on October 13, 2011, 03:37:45 PM
Why is a shame?  CAMSFC have already explained their situation clearly and consisely in the statement from the Chair of Governors.  There will be plently of opportunity for all parties to state their views in the proper manner once the planning application has been submitted and it all goes through the correct processes.

Personal remark removed from this post. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on October 13, 2011, 04:11:28 PM
Last night was awful in my opinion! You behaved like children trying to score points. The whole point of the meeting was for the planning department to inform you there has been no planning applications made and what the process was once it is. The meeting took nearly 2 hours in which to be honest could of been wrapped up in an hour! You all asked the same questions. There was genuine questions from residents which was answered and I hope they went away feeling relieved. The question about the swimming baths again was answered no plans have been submitted to them and IF said supermarket was planning on doing so NO compulsory orders will be made as it is NOT the council who would want it. I was told last night that I am making a fool of myself on this forum, infact I wasn't told I was shouted at! I asked that person not to shout at me and his wife told me not to worry that's how he speaks to people. Well I'm sorry I don't wish to be shouted at, so please don't approach me again.

I feel I have just as much right to my own opinion as the next person, and would never try to publically humiliate anyone.  when the yes group attended the rally in the park we stood and listened to everything said and didn't shout out during. Last night Gary spoke on behalf of the yes group and he was heckled from start to finish. It was disgusting. You are adults but behaved like children!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on October 13, 2011, 04:40:48 PM
Last night was awful in my opinion! You behaved like children trying to score points. The whole point of the meeting was for the planning department to inform you there has been no planning applications made and what the process was once it is. The meeting took nearly 2 hours in which to be honest could of been wrapped up in an hour! You all asked the same questions. There was genuine questions from residents which was answered and I hope they went away feeling relieved. The question about the swimming baths again was answered no plans have been submitted to them and IF said supermarket was planning on doing so NO compulsory orders will be made as it is NOT the council who would want it. I was told last night that I am making a fool of myself on this forum, infact I wasn't told I was shouted at! I asked that person not to shout at me and his wife told me not to worry that's how he speaks to people. Well I'm sorry I don't wish to be shouted at, so please don't approach me again.

I feel I have just as much right to my own opinion as the next person, and would never try to publically humiliate anyone.  when the yes group attended the rally in the park we stood and listened to everything said and didn't shout out during. Last night Gary spoke on behalf of the yes group and he was heckled from start to finish. It was disgusting. You are adults but behaved like children!

That is awful, Tina. I don't think you have made a fool of yourself whatsoever from what I have read of your posts, I am glad to hear 'both sides'. I am on the fence still but I admire the Yes group for standing up for their beliefs and i think they have a lot of very good arguments for a store. I also admire Gary for speaking out, it must have taken a lot of guts to do. I haven't watched the video yet, nor was I there, but it is shocking if he was heckled for having his say. That sort of thing will put people who are unsure off siding with MIA. Stay strong in your beliefs, everybody deserves to be heard NOT just those in the majority (at the meeting) or certain people but not others.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on October 13, 2011, 04:48:53 PM
I didn't attend the meeting last night, but it certainly seems to have become heated.

Just a reminder that whatever happened outside of the forum, this is a place for debate for the all the people of Marple and that when you use it the debate should be kept civil and respectful.

If you have personal messages to exchange please use the PM system rather than the open forum.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 13, 2011, 05:33:50 PM
MIA would just like to thank everyone who turned out last night in such bad weather  to offer their continued support.  The next stage will be when it is submitted into planning.  Behind  the scenes MIA have a dedicated core of people who are leaving no stone unturned in an attempt to halt this ridicules proposal.  
The in house arguing needs to stop and people can judge the tone of the meeting when the video is put on the web.  I must admit I was the one who did not want the meeting to be recorded which would allow CAMSFC the pleasure of viewing without the guts of attending, but given the tone on this forum, thankfully my request was overturned by the chair.  Please  stop this continued bun fight as it serves no purpose  We  all No or Yes have , I am sure better things to do than try to score points.  MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on October 13, 2011, 05:59:39 PM
Last night was awful in my opinion! You behaved like children trying to score points. The whole point of the meeting was for the planning department to inform you there has been no planning applications made and what the process was once it is. The meeting took nearly 2 hours in which to be honest could of been wrapped up in an hour! You all asked the same questions. There was genuine questions from residents which was answered and I hope they went away feeling relieved. The question about the swimming baths again was answered no plans have been submitted to them and IF said supermarket was planning on doing so NO compulsory orders will be made as it is NOT the council who would want it. I was told last night that I am making a fool of myself on this forum, infact I wasn't told I was shouted at! I asked that person not to shout at me and his wife told me not to worry that's how he speaks to people. Well I'm sorry I don't wish to be shouted at, so please don't approach me again.

I feel I have just as much right to my own opinion as the next person, and would never try to publically humiliate anyone.  when the yes group attended the rally in the park we stood and listened to everything said and didn't shout out during. Last night Gary spoke on behalf of the yes group and he was heckled from start to finish. It was disgusting. You are adults but behaved like children!
This is a gross exaggeration!There was a small amount of heckling probably due to fact that one of the two yes people who spoke from the front. Said that the Yes people  watch and report back where people shop and what bags they are carrying.who do you think you are? The shopping police?If I am working in Cheadle and I want to shop in my lunch break or on the way home I will do!What exactly is your campaign?You direct people to a social networking site full of childish ramblings for example."I saw this"and "I saw that". "You should of seen their faces" "An MIA man had a butchers bag in Stockport"Pathetic!! Grow up!You do yourselves no favours.If I wanted to support you what is your strategy?where is your direction?You leave yourselves open to ridicule. I truly felt sorry for you both eventhough my pity would almost certainly be rebuked. Your fairweather supporters let you both down badly :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on October 13, 2011, 06:11:52 PM
Last night was awful in my opinion! You behaved like children trying to score points. The whole point of the meeting was for the planning department to inform you there has been no planning applications made and what the process was once it is. The meeting took nearly 2 hours in which to be honest could of been wrapped up in an hour! You all asked the same questions. There was genuine questions from residents which was answered and I hope they went away feeling relieved. The question about the swimming baths again was answered no plans have been submitted to them and IF said supermarket was planning on doing so NO compulsory orders will be made as it is NOT the council who would want it. I was told last night that I am making a fool of myself on this forum, infact I wasn't told I was shouted at! I asked that person not to shout at me and his wife told me not to worry that's how he speaks to people. Well I'm sorry I don't wish to be shouted at, so please don't approach me again.

I feel I have just as much right to my own opinion as the next person, and would never try to publically humiliate anyone.  when the yes group attended the rally in the park we stood and listened to everything said and didn't shout out during. Last night Gary spoke on behalf of the yes group and he was heckled from start to finish. It was disgusting. You are adults but behaved like children!
This is a gross exaggeration!There was a small amount of heckling probably due to fact that one of the two yes people who spoke from the front. Said that the Yes people  watch and report back where people shop and what bags they are carrying.who do you think you are? The shopping police?If I am working in Cheadle and I want to shop in my lunch break or on the way home I will do!What exactly is your campaign?You direct people to a social networking site full of childish ramblings for example."I saw this"and "I saw that". "You should of seen their faces" "An MIA man had a butchers bag in Stockport"Pathetic!! Grow up!You do yourselves no favours.If I wanted to support you what is your strategy?where is your direction?You leave yourselves open to ridicule. I truly felt sorry for you both eventhough my pity would almost certainly be rebuked. Your fairweather supporters let you both down badly :o

Mrs O, I'd direct you to Miss Marple's more measure post above. On this I agree with her.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on October 13, 2011, 06:32:53 PM
Topic locked.

This is becoming personal. Posts have been moved until the moderators can decide which are relevant in this thread.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on October 13, 2011, 08:12:31 PM
A number of posts have been removed from this topic that would be better dealt with as Personal Messages and it has now been reinstated and unlocked. The topic was getting out of hand and you are urged to show consideration to others with your comments if you don't want them to be removed or the topic to be locked again.

With regard to the opposing views of Tina and Mrs O, I was at the meeting last night and I think BOTH are presented according to the posters' views on the supermarket issue. I think it will be better to wait for the video to become available before deciding who is painting the clearest picture of events last night and I can't see any point in people jumping in and making judgments from these posts if they were not there.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 15, 2011, 02:18:03 PM
Do we know when the video will be on SMBC web site ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 18, 2011, 09:57:47 PM
Where would we start to look for the video on the council web site  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 03:13:17 PM
The video will be on SMBC web sight soon it is reported that they have had some technical difficulties ?  Now I wonder what that could be ?  Suspicious ! Me never  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 07:33:38 PM
The video will be on SMBC web sight soon it is reported that they have had some technical difficulties ?  Now I wonder what that could be ?  Suspicious ! Me never  :-\
. I take it all back as it is now on this and SMBC site and it's not been edited.  Just wish I had had my hair done  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 19, 2011, 08:18:29 PM
I think people will now see that MIA were right in a lot of things they were putting on the forum.  It is beyond belief that Ms Cassidy refuses to speak to our elected members or indeed know the answer to the elected members questions.   I am hoping against hope that this is not Ms Cassius swan song and that the plan is to take all education out of Marple  and build on the land available  at CAMSFC Cheadle
I also feel that it is appalling that Ms Cassidy can inform the media that she has spoken to all that wish to speak with her.
  I find it more than a little disturbing if Ms Cassidy can go to press stating what appears to be an untruth that she has spoken to everyone who has requested to speak with her.  If we are to believe what Dave Goddard and 6 elected members report that she is refusing to enter into any form of meeting then what does she think she is doing. 
This woman is in charge of our children's education, morals and values, what example is she setting for our children.  The YPLA or whoever need to investigate the person who feels that she can ride rough shod over government officials because at the end of the day the money CAMSFC receive like it or not is from tax
payer monies   I hope the YPLA/ education minister  will be investigating for the wellbeing of our students future morals
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on October 20, 2011, 11:42:45 PM
The video will be on SMBC web sight soon it is reported that they have had some technical difficulties ?  Now I wonder what that could be ?  Suspicious ! Me never  :-\
In all fairness the stockport website servers date back to the dark ages, so its not supprising they've gone bang  ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 22, 2011, 08:15:53 AM
Miss M's relentless vilification of our college principal makes entertaining reading. However, is is entirely misplaced. Major issues such as the acquisition or disposal of land or property are the reponsibility of the governing body. They would not be allowed to delegate them to the principal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 22, 2011, 08:55:10 AM
Miss M's relentless vilification of our college principal makes entertaining reading. However, is is entirely misplaced. Major issues such as the acquisition or disposal of land or property are the reponsibility of the governing body. They would not be allowed to delegate them to the principal.
I bet she's shaking in her boots with worry.   Whilst you are right in some of the things you say, I fear on others you are selective   Are you standing for governor by any chance or have any other interests  in CAMSFC     ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 22, 2011, 09:14:28 AM
As I've said before, I've got no connection with the college other that two of our children went there a few years ago. 'Selective'? Give me an example.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on October 22, 2011, 09:48:09 AM
Miss M's relentless vilification of our college principal makes entertaining reading. However, is is entirely misplaced. Major issues such as the acquisition or disposal of land or property are the reponsibility of the governing body. They would not be allowed to delegate them to the principal.
And also Daves relentless vilifiication of Miss M and anything related to a large group of people who are against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane. ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on October 22, 2011, 10:01:32 AM
Miss M's relentless vilification of our college principal makes entertaining reading. However, is is entirely misplaced. Major issues such as the acquisition or disposal of land or property are the reponsibility of the governing body. They would not be allowed to delegate them to the principal.
And also Daves relentless vilifiication of Miss M and anything related to a large group of people who are against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane. ::)

I know you have a smiley in there but it doesn't read very well. I disagree entirely. Whether you agree with Dave or not I think it's obvious that he is almost the sole voice on this forum representing education and providing information around the legal framework within which the college has to operate. His posts come across as reasonable and measured to me.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on October 22, 2011, 10:27:41 AM
I agree completely Howard.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on October 22, 2011, 10:37:31 AM
Well said Howard. If we can't have reasoned debate where would we be?

On a different note, I find the comments of one of the ex-governors intriguing. He wants to see affordable housing on the site, and notes that one of his main objections to a supermarket is traffic. Let's be honest here, Marple's congestion problems are almost exclusively peak hour based, so another wodge of housing would only exacerbate those issues, as the new residents sought to travel in and out of Marple for work.

I really don't see a new Supermarket on Hibbert Lane having any discernible impact on this main traffic congestion during these peak times. It's very unlikely that people will choose to specifically travel into Marple to do there shopping at these times. To get a little bit technical here, studies have demonstrated that new Supermarkets actually don't create very much 'new' traffic at all, but most movements are either
1. 'pass by' trips - I.e. You were going padt the store and dropped in
2. 'diverted trips' - I.e. You were travelling close to the store and decided to drop in
3. 'transfer trips' - I.e. You now choose to shop in the new store rather than your previous shop (rather pertinent to Marple, where I suspect that most supermarket users currently travel out of the town)
4 'linked trips' I.e part of a chain, of other local trips

I'm sure the supermarket operator will run the argument that there is a good chance that the 'net balance' in traffic is unlikely to have a minimal impact on traffic flows in Marple as a whole. I think this argument has merit.

Of course the real crux of the traffic matter comes down to the Stockport road lights by travis perkins and church lane mini. I have no don't that work will need to be done here and my suspicion is that some propert purchase would be necessary to improve matters. This could be very interesting to see what transpires given that Smbc are so opposed.

In many respects the local traffic issues at the lights and the mini would be shared by the so called alternative site on the sorting office car park. It has to be said that this alternative is not at all attractive in traffic terms, given it's restricted access and the potential for knock on parking issues. In my view this could end up being the crux of the fight. I'm sure that the supermarket lot will be able to demonstrate a need for a new store, to me that is self evident, it may all come down to whether a realistic alternative exists. I remain unconvinced by the sorting office site and if an inspector was too, this could potentially lead him to have much more sympathy for retail development at Hibbert Lane. If I was MIA the potential for feasible alternatives is where I would be directing attention, if there are other options in the sequential test, Hibbert Lane may suddenly appear far more attractive in planning terms.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on October 22, 2011, 10:42:51 AM
That should be 'no other options in the sequential test'. Apologies for the typos - I typed this on the mobile and seen unable to scroll back to check what I have previously written!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cripes on October 22, 2011, 12:37:55 PM
So where is the video them on the SMBC website?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on October 22, 2011, 12:47:11 PM
It's here:
http://buto.tv/769p2 (http://buto.tv/769p2)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on October 22, 2011, 12:55:44 PM
Miss M's relentless vilification of our college principal makes entertaining reading. However, is is entirely misplaced. Major issues such as the acquisition or disposal of land or property are the reponsibility of the governing body. They would not be allowed to delegate them to the principal.
I bet she's shaking in her boots with worry.   Whilst you are right in some of the things you say, I fear on others you are selective   Are you standing for governor by any chance or have any other interests  in CAMSFC     ???
                      AND if he was .then what .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cripes on October 22, 2011, 12:59:01 PM
It's here:
http://buto.tv/769p2 (http://buto.tv/769p2)

Thanks Howard.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 22, 2011, 07:37:21 PM
As I've said before, I've got no connection with the college other that two of our children went there a few years ago. 'Selective'? Give me an example.
OK here's one of many !  There are two other requirement that the YPLA require ! Best value is only one and even  this can be challenged  by the other two requirements but  you must i feel already know this, so this is why I feel at times you are selective with your information  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on October 22, 2011, 08:18:16 PM
As I've said before, I've got no connection with the college other that two of our children went there a few years ago. 'Selective'? Give me an example.
OK here's one of many !  There are two other requirement that the YPLA require ! Best value is only one and even  this can be challenged  by the other two requirements but  you must i feel already know this, so this is why I feel at times you are selective with your information  ;)

             Where do you shop Miss Marple . your main shop i mean .  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 22, 2011, 09:20:50 PM
  I am against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane not supermarkets, home delivery, or people shopping where they want to shop.   I think you may need to  watch the area Committee video and you will find that  it's the Yes campaign that have been monitoring peoples shopping habits not MIA  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on October 23, 2011, 12:14:36 AM
The yes group just wanted to highlight that MIA are asking people to support the local shops but then themselves shop outside of Marple, shopping in shops what are already in Marple. Its funny how someone asks you a reasonable question but you choose not to answer it but instead point the finger at the yes group.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on October 23, 2011, 08:48:41 AM
Im on the fence at the moment but I do think that Tina has raised an important point. I myself witnessed a Tesco delivery van taking shopping into a house on Hibbert Lane that has a NO poster in their window and I know someone else was driving along Hibbert Lane and saw another NO resident carrying Tesco bags from their car boot. It could be argued that this is very hypocritical and nimbyish, they don't want a supermarket yards from their own home but they are happy to travel to another town where a supermarket is built only yards from other peoples homes. MIA might be quick to say that these observations are petty but I see it as they are skirting around an important issue that needs to be addressed.

Whenever I'm walking around Marple, I always see Sainsburys, Asda, Ocado and Tesco delivery vans which are a sign that Marple does need another supermarket.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on October 23, 2011, 09:52:49 AM
The yes group just wanted to highlight that MIA are asking people to support the local shops but then themselves shop outside of Marple, shopping in shops what are already in Marple. Its funny how someone asks you a reasonable question but you choose not to answer it but instead point the finger at the yes group.
Firstly, I don't think that people have to say where they shop,wether it be Marple,out of town or both unless they want to.I wouldn't say MIA constantly shout Save our local shops,They do not want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane which would help the survival of the shops we have now.When I went to the dentist in Hyde last week I bought some shampoo from Superdrug,Shoot me now!the Marple branch may have to close.How do you know the people you see shopping out of Marple are against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane,do they have a blue spot on their foreheads?This spying business is just crazy and whats more hilarious ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on October 23, 2011, 10:28:22 AM
How ridiculous...people can't object to a supermarket because they shop at...other supermarkets.  Because people buy groceries, Marple therefore 'needs' a supermarket...what facile arguments.  What next, will those in favour take the names of all the students that travel from Marple to Aquinas?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 23, 2011, 11:02:41 AM
I am not avoiding anything but feel people are objecting to a supermarket for various reasons but I have no real alternative than to shop local  I work in Marple and have a VERY demanding job so by the end of the day I would not even want to shop in a supermarket even if it was next door to where I live.  I shop local daily  in my lunch hour and at weekends I go to big city or visit family and may visit a large supermarket on my return or have a home delivery especially when Carte Noire is on offer at any major supermarket but that does not mean I want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  Make of my shopping habits as you like but remember I don't have a SKY dish  ;) so choose to spend the money I save  the odd time on home delivery which is about 3 times a year and this includes Ice Land in Marple
I support my local shps and when Costa comes you will see me in there as well as all the other coffee shops and dare I say public house,   Some evenings I go to my friends sisters, Shirley's  chippy near Goyt mill and when friends are round we have a curry / Chinese delivery.  I only ever go to the local pictures mainly because I finish work too late to go anywhere else.  I use Teds garage for my car, I did use Albert's Garage but sadly it's no longer there. 
Even though I have given you details of my shopping habits, this is not what the NO campaign is about.   The NO campaign is about, increased traffic , loss of local shops, noise and light pollution, change of possible infer structure, loss of an education site and much, much more.
We live in a democracy and enjoy the freedom that affords us. I can assure people 100% that in supporting MIA your shopping outside of Marple is not an issue.  I feel this debate is becoming very childish and trying to score points regarding people shopping habits is  stupid. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on October 23, 2011, 11:43:40 AM
 
Even though I have given you details of my shopping habits, this is not what the NO campaign is about.   The NO campaign is about, increased traffic , loss of local shops, noise and light pollution, change of possible infer structure, loss of an education site and much, much more.
We live in a democracy and enjoy the freedom that affords us. I can assure people 100% that in supporting MIA your shopping outside of Marple is not an issue.  I feel this debate is becoming very childish and trying to score points regarding people shopping habits is  stupid. 

It could be argued that another supermarket on the sorting office land, would cause more traffic problems than if it was at Hibbert Lane. Where would the shoppers park? which road would be used for access? what about the homes on Chadwick street? The site is even closer to those houses than they are on Hibbert Lane.  The local shops could still suffer if your argument that people only shop in 1 store then whats to say they wont do this in the new one? Your campaign contradicts itself. I didn't ask for your shopping habits amazon did, I commented because you turned it to the yes group monitoring peoples shopping habits. I think it is a valid point that MIA want to save the shops but then shop out of Marple. I get home deliveries from asda for my main groceries and get items from Marple as well.  I have to get home deliveries because the co-op for me is just not good enough, if there was a supermarket on Hibbert Lane then I could go and choose my own food on a day and time what suits me. but instead I have to do it online 2 days before and make sure I'm home in the 2 hour slot. the money I could save on not paying the delivery charge over a year is better for me and my family. Maybe I could afford a holiday for me and my children, a luxury some people take for granted.

It has been repeated so many times that the subject is becoming boring.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on October 23, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
Miss Marple you miss part of the point here. Peoples shopping habits (collectively rather than individually) will be a huge issue at any planning appeal in this scheme. Tesco / Asda et al will have reams and reams of information on shopping catchments, demand profiling, etc. All from the 'loyalty' cards that most of us carry.

They will try to use this to demonstrate that a huge number of Marple residents travel out of the town every week to shop, thereby demonstrating a 'need' for a new store. If they win this argument, which at the moment MIA themselves don't appear to be contesting, the next question then is 'is Hibbert Lane the only available and demonstrably deliverable site for a new store'. This is quite a difficult question to answer at the moment, as the other 'alternative site' thread is demonstrating. It offers the chink of light that the store developers are banking on by taking on the fight.

I thing the yes campaign recognise this, even if they haven't perhaps made the argument in quite the best terms.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 23, 2011, 11:56:58 AM
Hi Belly this has been well covered and surveys conducted by  MIA experienced marketing teams have been taking place since late June.  The is a lot of work going on behind the scenes which will become clearer as the campaign develops IE when a planning application if any is submitted.

I am not part of the Marketing Teams so can not answer questions if asked.  This is not an avoidance it is just not my area of particular practice
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Taurus on October 23, 2011, 12:11:10 PM
The responses from Mrs O and Miss Marple are exactly what I was expecting. Your campaign is not going to be won by emotions.

The issue I raised is a constructive and logical argument, not emotional. Whichever supermarket is interested in Hibbert Lane will already be aware that the majority of the NO and YES groups do their main shop outside of Marple or get it delivered from a supermarket outside of Marple. What are your going to say to them when they present these facts, are you going to say "it's stupid and irrelevant" to them like you do on here?





Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on October 23, 2011, 12:17:13 PM
Im on the fence at the moment but I do think that Tina has raised an important point. I myself witnessed a Tesco delivery van taking shopping into a house on Hibbert Lane that has a NO poster in their window and I know someone else was driving along Hibbert Lane and saw another NO resident carrying Tesco bags from their car boot. It could be argued that this is very hypocritical and nimbyish, they don't want a supermarket yards from their own home but they are happy to travel to another town where a supermarket is built only yards from other peoples homes. MIA might be quick to say that these observations are petty but I see it as they are skirting around an important issue that needs to be addressed.

Whenever I'm walking around Marple, I always see Sainsburys, Asda, Ocado and Tesco delivery vans which are a sign that Marple does need another supermarket.





Great post!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on October 23, 2011, 12:25:05 PM
It is very relevant that many NO people themselves shop outside of Marple because they have a choice to do that but some people DO NOT. This is what made me swing from NO to on the fence. I am not the only one either.

I personally think that the planners read this website (very easy via google search) and already have picked up on these points and ready to prepare evidence for this. I also think that when the plans actually come in many people will be relieved after all the scare stories. I also find more people are on the fence-even those who have signed the petition.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on October 23, 2011, 04:05:49 PM
  I am against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane not supermarkets, home delivery, or people shopping where they want to shop.   I think you may need to  watch the area Committee video and you will find that  it's the Yes campaign that have been monitoring peoples shopping habits not MIA  ;)
          I noticed you managed to avoid answering my question were you shop .tesco asda sainsburys waitrose .come on which supermarket do you use .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 23, 2011, 05:44:10 PM
Flipping heck Amazon I have just given enough information about myself that I am at high risk of identity fraud  :D. I mainly shop in coop in my lunch hour,  get my veg from Johns or Wilson's.  I bake my own bread and cakes (earth mother)  get milk from Iceland. I do not eat meat or fish but when family visit I get smoked English bacon from whites( no added water) and sausage and depending which butcher is nearest I purchase meat from either Littlewoods or Whites.  If it's Friday and family are visiting I get fish from the fish man at the  side of the Bull and I buy wine from Toast or the Coop. 
I go to Town at weekends on the train and Stockport on the bus and do some ME shopping !  I have to drive all week so it's great taking my granddaughter on the bus and train and also the tram when I visit family in Salford a day return is such fantastic value.
On a Friday or mainly  Sat night I get the last train from Rose Hill with a group of friends  and we party in big city, get the 192 to the Grove on the way home and a taxi to Marple from Blue Line also in the Grove
Why do you want to know Amazon are you continually on the hunt like me for Carte Noire coffee on offer if so Tesco have a great deal on now  but it is  not as cheap as it was in the Coop three weeks ago.  :-*


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 23, 2011, 05:58:57 PM
Miss M, you wrote 'There are two other requirement that the YPLA require ! Best value is only one and even  this can be challenged  by the other two requirements but  you must i feel already know this, so this is why I feel at times you are selective with your information  ;).

So what are these 'other requirements' that I'm supposed to know about??There are two other requirement that the YPLA require ! Best value is only one and even  this can be challenged  by the other two requirements but  you must i feel already know this, so this is why I feel at times you are selective with your information  ;) 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 23, 2011, 06:00:35 PM
Sorry, I seem to have made a mess of that - it comes from posting on my phone :-)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 23, 2011, 06:24:01 PM
Oh come on Dave ! Research like I have had to do  :-\.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on October 24, 2011, 07:57:35 AM
This is a good example of Miss M's 'credibility gap'. She makes a claim - in this case: 'There are two other requirement that the YPLA require' - but then can't back it up. So we are all left to draw our own conclusions... 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on October 24, 2011, 02:46:05 PM
Flipping heck Amazon I have just given enough information about myself that I am at high risk of identity fraud  :D. I mainly shop in coop in my lunch hour,  get my veg from Johns or Wilson's.  I bake my own bread and cakes (earth mother)  get milk from Iceland. I do not eat meat or fish but when family visit I get smoked English bacon from whites( no added water) and sausage and depending which butcher is nearest I purchase meat from either Littlewoods or Whites.  If it's Friday and family are visiting I get fish from the fish man at the  side of the Bull and I buy wine from Toast or the Coop. 
I go to Town at weekends on the train and Stockport on the bus and do some ME shopping !  I have to drive all week so it's great taking my granddaughter on the bus and train and also the tram when I visit family in Salford a day return is such fantastic value.
On a Friday or mainly  Sat night I get the last train from Rose Hill with a group of friends  and we party in big city, get the 192 to the Grove on the way home and a taxi to Marple from Blue Line also in the Grove
Why do you want to know Amazon are you continually on the hunt like me for Carte Noire coffee on offer if so Tesco have a great deal on now  but it is  not as cheap as it was in the Coop three weeks ago.  :-*

  Briliant reply  ;) like you humour .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alan@marple on October 24, 2011, 06:10:20 PM
Well, I don't Know,all this fuss and HooHar, I just wonder how many of the MIA will never shop in the superstore when it comes!, in fact it's arrival could well be a favourable consideration in me moving back to Marple.

Support your local traders they say and then go shopping at ALDI in Romiley as they did this afternoon, but they did not let on to me!, mind you the Veg. is cheap there.


Love You!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on October 26, 2011, 05:49:12 PM
Support your local traders they say and then go shopping at ALDI in Romiley as they did this afternoon, but they did not let on to me!, mind you the Veg. is cheap there.


I agree it comes accross as hypocritical. It is exactly that which turned some people to YES. I also agree the veg is cheap at Aldi! It's a shame we can't have one at the old hanburys site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on October 26, 2011, 07:46:49 PM
Well, I don't Know,all this fuss and HooHar, I just wonder how many of the MIA will never shop in the superstore when it comes!, in fact it's arrival could well be a favourable consideration in me moving back to Marple.

Support your local traders they say and then go shopping at ALDI in Romiley as they did this afternoon, but they did not let on to me!, mind you the Veg. is cheap there.


Love You!

Why would people who know you ignore you?Did you let on to them?Very strange.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 29, 2011, 07:12:34 PM
MIA were out again today collecting signatures for the petition, and we were able to collect a further 500 names from people strongly against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
There is a new up to date news letter which we were able to hand out to people who do not have access to the web and information on YOUR PLACE YOUR PLAN which is a consultation document on Stockports allocations DPD.
The Consultation on Stockports Allocations DPD is a rather lengthy document but well worth a read and let's people have their say.  I am sure this will be put on the Marple in Action web site soon with information on what it means to the community.
All in all it was a fantastic day today on the stall with lots of people wanting information on recent developments.  MIA would like to thank  everyone who turned up today to show their support, many of you also saying  that you follow the topic on this site so a huge Thank You and a reminder to watch out for the latest information which will soon be on the MIA web site !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on October 31, 2011, 05:00:32 PM
Now ! I don't know how true this is, but I am 100% positive that someone will correct me if I am wrong  ???  Well I have just heard that Mr Laurie Grant Chair  of CAMCFC  letter has been awarded letter of the week in the Stockport Express and he has won a prize of £15.00    That I do not begrudge him but what I want to know is does this now mean they only need 11 million and something (I am not a mathematician)  Could  this not be a way forward for CAMSFC to acquire funding? Now let's see how many letters would it take the corporation to write to acquire the monies they say they need , oh now that's a hard one   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 03, 2011, 08:24:30 AM
Mr Laurie Grant Chairman of CAMSFC is standing down in Jan, that  was one hell of a Swan Song Laurie  :-X
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on November 06, 2011, 10:00:36 PM
I am sure most people visit supermarkets at some time,look were you shop,is your supermarket near houses,only shop at supermarkets that are not directly near houses,then the supermarket owners might think twice before they site them near houses. :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 17, 2011, 05:37:10 PM
Guess who's got a planning application in to build more buildings , yes it's CAMSFC but  on their Cheadle Campus  :o.  Now the plot thickens or is it just me  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on November 17, 2011, 09:30:17 PM
Guess who's got a planning application in to build more buildings , yes it's CAMSFC but  on their Cheadle Campus  :o.  Now the plot thickens or is it just me  ???

This has been in the plans for a long time.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 18, 2011, 12:21:54 AM
Wheres the money coming from I thought CAMSFC had no money hence the need to sell Hibbert Lane   Am I missing something here  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on November 18, 2011, 08:42:57 AM
Wheres the money coming from I thought CAMSFC had no money hence the need to sell Hibbert Lane   Am I missing something here  ???

Read the statement from the college at http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3861.0 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3861.0)

Nowhere does it say they have no money. Merely that they reviewed their financing options and made decisions accordingly. Good financial management.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 18, 2011, 09:32:16 AM
Well that's alright then Harry   ??? as  long as you know that no money is being drained out of Marple education and there is no loss of curriculum in Marple     If that's what you are saying that's great  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on November 18, 2011, 10:04:58 AM
Now the plot thickens or is it just me  ???

No, it's just you, Miss M.  The plot isn't thickening, because there isn't a plot.  There's just a college going about its lawful business doing its best to improve its facilities, at a challenging time when there is no government capital for college estates. 

They haven't handled everything as well as they might have done, but then, which of us is perfect?  In particular, they could, with hindsight, have communicated their plans more clearly and promptly to the people of Marple.  But apart from that, they seem to be doing what they can to make sure that in future our kids and grandkids have decent facilities to study in.  That's all. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on November 18, 2011, 10:23:41 AM
Now the plot thickens or is it just me  ???

No, it's just you, Miss M.  The plot isn't thickening, because there isn't a plot.  There's just a college going about its lawful business doing its best to improve its facilities, at a challenging time when there is no government capital for college estates. 

They haven't handled everything as well as they might have done, but then, which of us is perfect?  In particular, they could, with hindsight, have communicated their plans more clearly and promptly to the people of Marple.  But apart from that, they seem to be doing what they can to make sure that in future our kids and grandkids have decent facilities to study in.  That's all. 

              At Least they ha vent bee sticking banners on trees , [ who put the banner up on the trees . doesent he do work for smbc .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on November 18, 2011, 04:36:59 PM
Guess who's got a planning application in to build more buildings , yes it's CAMSFC but  on their Cheadle Campus  :o.  Now the plot thickens or is it just me  ???

 ::) Construction of two single storey extensions and free-standing canopies, together with hard landscaping works.

Here's a link to the application form.. http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=172217 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=172217)

and the plans http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC048416 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC048416)


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on November 18, 2011, 05:09:08 PM
Tesco and Asda are going to build a combined store its going to be called Te Asda,when I was in Preston I heard people saying,Im just going Te Asda...... :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on November 19, 2011, 08:49:06 AM
Guess who's got a planning application in to build more buildings , yes it's CAMSFC but  on their Cheadle Campus  :o.  Now the plot thickens or is it just me  ???

 ::) Construction of two single storey extensions and free-standing canopies, together with hard landscaping works.

Here's a link to the application form.. http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=172217 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=172217)

and the plans http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC048416 (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/mvmedrms.asp?DCNumber=DC048416)




And the college have confirmed via FOI where the Cheadle development money is coming from.  They've also advised that there will be no reduction in spaces with the advent of Hibbert Lane being bulldozed, see link for full details.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/capital_funding_2011#incoming-226682 (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/capital_funding_2011#incoming-226682)

The College bid for £1.2m and received £1.2m from the Building Conditions Improvement Fund. The majority of this money is intended to be spent on a minor extension at the Cheadle Campus. There is also works underway to refurbish the science labs at Cheadle and painting, flooring and repairs to roofing at Cheadle. Some new windows and doors have been installed at Marple. Final costings are not yet available as works are still underway and specifications being finalised.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on November 19, 2011, 09:44:57 AM
£90 million is a drop in the ocean when shared among all the sixth form and FE colleges in England, so our college did well to get as much as they did.  Although no doubt that is also a reflection of the relatively poor condition of some of their estate, compared with many other colleges. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 22, 2011, 09:58:54 PM
£90 million is a drop in the ocean when shared among all the sixth form and FE colleges in England, so our college did well to get as much as they did.  Although no doubt that is also a reflection of the relatively poor condition of some of their estate, compared with many other colleges. 
My heart bleeds for them ! Tell you what ! Let's have a whip round ? Oh silly me we have all ready given them 8.5 acres with facilities  >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Basementlife on November 23, 2011, 01:19:01 PM
Why so bitter Miss Marple ? Is not the future children's/young folks education worthy of a much needed update ?

And as far as I know, I didn't have 8.5 acres.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 23, 2011, 03:23:04 PM
Why so bitter Miss Marple ? Is not the future children's/young folks education worthy of a much needed update ?

And as far as I know, I didn't have 8.5 acres.
No loss  of curriculum is a major factor and job losses.  Oh yes it's true you and I didn't have 8.5 acres ! We had  more because the Buxton Lane site was a gift to the people of Marple !  Thanks for reminding me  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on November 24, 2011, 09:59:38 AM
loss  of curriculum is a major factor and job losses. 

And your evidence for that is.......?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 26, 2011, 04:53:00 PM
Monday is the last day for people to get there DPD into the council.  If you have not had chance to visit the MIA stall today you can still do it on line.   Today on the MIA stall over a 100 people came and filled out the forms which were then posted off.    Given the weather it was a fantastic response and we have learned that the council have had to redeploy  staff to cope with the additional mail    What A Team !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on November 26, 2011, 06:10:43 PM
Don't worry Miss M, I've done my DPD response. As you have not answered my question, presumably you don't have any evidence for your allegation?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 26, 2011, 06:24:39 PM
Of course I will answer your question Dave !  But quote me correctly first.  I said No loss  of curriculum or loss of jobs is a major factor ! Not as you Quote me as saying   Loss off curriculum and jobs is a major factor.  Hey Dave you will have to be smarter than that.  ;).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on November 26, 2011, 06:36:55 PM
You're right Miss M, I'm struggling with this one! I assumed there was a comma missing after the word 'no'!   So if there's no loss of jobs or curriculum, then why is it a 'major factor'?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on November 28, 2011, 06:48:57 PM
Dave Goddard leader of the council has managed to have an audience with Ms Cassidy at last  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alan@marple on November 30, 2011, 02:33:04 PM
Mr Goddard repeated his pledge at that meeting that the Council will:

•REFUSE PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE
FIGHT ANY APPEALS TO THEIR CONCLUSION

At what cost to the resident council tax payers
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on November 30, 2011, 03:00:13 PM
Mr Goddard repeated his pledge at that meeting that the Council will:

•REFUSE PLANNING PERMISSION FOR A SUPERMARKET ON HIBBERT LANE
FIGHT ANY APPEALS TO THEIR CONCLUSION

At what cost to the resident council tax payers
              Until they are offered     new this new that then things change   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alan@marple on November 30, 2011, 04:07:36 PM
Sorry Amazon, could you repeat your comment please, I am a little confused?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on November 30, 2011, 08:08:11 PM
Sorry Amazon, could you repeat your comment please, I am a little confused?

            New Roads poss new swimming baths
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on December 01, 2011, 06:53:19 PM
Another supermarket could be built in Marple. Investigations are due to begin into alternative uses for the Chadwick Street Car Park in the town centre – including a supermarket or other retail use.

The site, which is owned by the council, is currently home to a Royal Mail delivery office, as well as the car park.

There are already plans to build an Asda supermarket on the Hibbert Lane campus of Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College.

A report that came before councillors at last night's meeting on the Marple area committee identified a number of other possible uses, including offices, hotels and houses. But Ian Keats, from development company NPS, who presented the report, said retail is the preferred option.

He said: “We would put the site out to market for expressions of interest, and refer back to the area committee early next year with the responses received.”

Residents at the meeting expressed concerns about the size of a possible supermarket on the site, and the idea of building on a car park that money was spent on improving only two years ago.

Councillors stressed that the process is at a very early stage, so it is too early to speculate on the size of any possible development. Councillor Craig Wright said the plan to put a supermarket at Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College had opened a 'Pandora's Box' in Marple.

“If we're going to have a supermarket it would be better if we could do it somewhere where we can have control over what is happening,” he said.
  :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 02, 2011, 09:33:59 AM
Much of this is covered here, batman: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3955.0

...though it's useful to have the update from the area committee meeting.  However, I don't know what to make of this bit:
Councillor Craig Wright said the plan to put a supermarket at Cheadle & Marple Sixth Form College had opened a 'Pandora's Box' in Marple. “If we're going to have a supermarket it would be better if we could do it somewhere where we can have control over what is happening,” he said.

What does that mean?  What 'control' does he expect, over and above the control which the council has as the planning authority, and which applies equally to any development on any site?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on December 02, 2011, 01:11:13 PM
If the council were to approve any plans they can put certain restrictions in place,I think this is what the councilor meant.. ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 02, 2011, 05:16:09 PM
Councils can always put conditions on any planning consent, wherever it is. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on December 02, 2011, 07:44:24 PM
Councils can always put conditions on any planning consent, wherever it is. 

Councils always put conditions on any large planning consent.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 04, 2011, 02:23:29 PM
Does anyone else find it distasteful that one of Marple's several co-ops is currently displaying a Marple in Action 'NO' poster in its window?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: TINSLEY on December 04, 2011, 02:28:23 PM
Yes and give us a real supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on December 04, 2011, 03:21:39 PM
Yes and give us a real supermarket.

             Went in yesterday sat mid morning .lot of the frozen food fridges empty as was quite a lot of other shelves . this is why we need another supermarket .i know its nearly Christmas .but its like this most of the time .big gaps on shelves .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alison on December 04, 2011, 09:50:01 PM
Does anyone else find it distasteful that one of Marple's several co-ops is currently displaying a Marple in Action 'NO' poster in its window?

Huh? what other coops are there?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 04, 2011, 10:06:38 PM
Does anyone else find it distasteful that one of Marple's several co-ops is currently displaying a Marple in Action 'NO' poster in its window?
Huh? what other coops are there?

There's the big one, the little one (the old Somerfield / Texaco garage - where the poster is) and 2 pharmacies off the top of my head.

Marple is truly a co-op town. But apparently that's OK because they are not big, evil Tesco or big, American Asda.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 04, 2011, 10:10:00 PM
No it's because they have always been in Marple !  Believe it or not we have far less Coop owned buildings than when I was young because then  Marple was the Coop
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 04, 2011, 10:14:55 PM
No it's because they have always been in Marple !  Believe it or not we have far less Coop owned buildings than when I was young because then  Marple was the Coop
Hi Miss Marple <waves>

Maybe for your 1000th post you could say whether you agree with the co-op displaying an MIA poster or not.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 04, 2011, 10:25:07 PM
I have faith in both Karl and Peter so I will leave it to the latter to do what's right  ;).  

1000th  post !  Message to self  ' get a life '

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Catwoman on December 07, 2011, 09:49:30 AM
Anyone watch the BBC programme about supermarkets this week?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16027733

and a couple of recent articles about Tesco developing into new sales areas

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/districtnews/9333642.Beauty_salon_cuts_a_dash_with_shoppers/
 
http://www.is4profit.com/small-business-news/20111104-tesco-beauty-expansion-threatens-small-shops.html
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 11, 2011, 08:31:04 PM
I was interested to read the latest MIA newsletter on the on the 'Latest News' thread: http://www.marple-in-action.org.uk/MIAnewsletterDec2011.pdf

It provides a useful update on the issues surrounding camsfc's  proposals to improve their facilities. It is, for the most part, balanced and reasonable, but then there is a suggestion that readers might write to Asda telling them that they are not welcome, and at this point things go seriously amiss!     

As we all know, the college is planning to sell off one of its sites, with its poor-quality buildings which were designed for a different purpose and are expensive to run, and use the proceeds to replace those buildings on its other site.   

So we good people of Marple are invited by MIA to write to ASDA as follows: ' I read that your company is planning to buy Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College, demolish it and build a supermarket.....I am both shocked and amazed. The shock is from learning that we now live in a country that closes schools to open supermarkets. My amazement is that a company such as yours... would ever dream about becoming involved in such a sad and shameful story..... you may well choose to persist in the plan to destroy an institute of education and build yet another of your stores......For your huge company to destroy a school...  you will be marked forever as the man who destroys places of education to pursue yet another pound of profit.'

That is such a bizarre distortion of the truth that no-one could possibly take it seriously.   It isn't a school - it hasn't been a school for many years.  The 'school' is not being demolished - one set of buildings is to be replaced by others which will be better.  The 'school' is not going to be 'closed'.  The 'institute of education' is not going to be 'destroyed'.  And so on. 

I am no supporter of MIA, but I accept that there is a perfectly good case to be made against building a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  But honestly, if you guys want to be taken seriously, you really do need to show a bit more respect for truth and accuracy.   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 11, 2011, 09:18:10 PM
I would just like to say a huge  thank you to everyone who visited the stall on Saturday wanting information and offering assistance.  As you may already be aware no planning application has as yet been submitted but one is expected around April / May which is nearly a year since the information about the sale was leaked out of the college.      MIA are still awaiting assurances from the YPLA that there will be no loss in curriculum or facility if Hibbert Lane Campus was to close.  No loss of curriculum is a requirement of the YPLA before they can agree any sale.  Sadly it would appear that they are in breech of there own procedures so a complaint has been sent to DOE  for an investigation and an explanation on how an agreement to sell the land has been given by the YPLA without the correct procedures being adhered too.  
There is also work being done around the land being returned back to surviving  family due to the land if sold no longer being used for the reason it was bequeathed.  
Once again MIA would like to thank you all  for your continued support   :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 12, 2011, 11:16:57 AM
I was interested to read the latest MIA newsletter on the on the 'Latest News' thread: http://www.marple-in-action.org.uk/MIAnewsletterDec2011.pdf

It provides a useful update on the issues surrounding camsfc's  proposals to improve their facilities. It is, for the most part, balanced and reasonable, but then there is a suggestion that readers might write to Asda telling them that they are not welcome, and at this point things go seriously amiss!     

As we all know, the college is planning to sell off one of its sites, with its poor-quality buildings which were designed for a different purpose and are expensive to run, and use the proceeds to replace those buildings on its other site.   

So we good people of Marple are invited by MIA to write to ASDA as follows: ' I read that your company is planning to buy Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College, demolish it and build a supermarket.....I am both shocked and amazed. The shock is from learning that we now live in a country that closes schools to open supermarkets. My amazement is that a company such as yours... would ever dream about becoming involved in such a sad and shameful story..... you may well choose to persist in the plan to destroy an institute of education and build yet another of your stores......For your huge company to destroy a school...  you will be marked forever as the man who destroys places of education to pursue yet another pound of profit.'That is such a bizarre distortion of the truth that no-one could possibly take it seriously.   It isn't a school - it hasn't been a school for many years.  The 'school' is not being demolished - one set of buildings is to be replaced by others which will be better.  The 'school' is not going to be 'closed'.  The 'institute of education' is not going to be 'destroyed'.  And so on. 

I am no supporter of MIA, but I accept that there is a perfectly good case to be made against building a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  But honestly, if you guys want to be taken seriously, you really do need to show a bit more respect for truth and accuracy.   ::)

I'm confused now as we have been continually told that Marple in Action do not do scaremongering and only deal with the facts  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 12, 2011, 11:31:31 AM
What's scaremongering about that ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 12, 2011, 12:29:42 PM
What's scaremongering about that ?
Actually this is not really scaremongering you are correct. It is worse than that.

I read that your company is planning to buy Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College, demolish it and build a supermarket.....I am both shocked and amazed. The shock is from learning that we now live in a country that closes schools to open supermarkets. My amazement is that a company such as yours... would ever dream about becoming involved in such a sad and shameful story..... you may well choose to persist in the plan to destroy an institute of education and build yet another of your stores......For your huge company to destroy a school...  you will be marked forever as the man who destroys places of education to pursue yet another pound of profit.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 12, 2011, 02:18:35 PM
Actually this is not really scaremongering you are correct. It is worse than that.

Yes, it is much worse, because it totally misrepresents the situation.  Anyone reading that model letter would think that a new Asda is to be built which could cause a school to close ('For your huge company to destroy a school').  That is the reverse of the truth, which is that a college is selling off some land which could cause an Asda to be built!  It's bizarre.   ::)  And needless to say, if anyone sends that letter to Asda they will be completely mystified! 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 12, 2011, 08:37:57 PM
Dave ! The college was in talks with supermarkets well before they applied to the learning skills council !  Dont believe me ?  Then ask Cllr Alexander she was a governor at that time and also look at CAMSfC Min's for 2006 / 2008    I know its hard but if you want to comment Dave you really need to keep up to speed because its MIA that's confused that your knowledge around this debate is somewhat limited  ???  Even the YPLA are aware that even before CAMSFC lost their bid for monies to LSC our wonderful CAMSFC had already paid large amounts of monies on consultancy fees and borrowing LARGE sums of monies to pay for their services    By heck Dave do you just come on here to wind me up ? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 12, 2011, 08:55:45 PM
Oh nearly forgot it was Miss Cassidy and Co who went to the supermarkets offering the land ,not the other way round.   One last question Dave & HWL if we have a growing population do you think it's morally acceptable for 500 + children to be put in a super school with limited parking and the rest when they could have had Hibbert Lane with all that parking, open space away from a main road ?   What's going to happen to the future of Marple's education facilities if we all just sit back and watch them close.  We have already lost 3 primary schools and if you really believe that Hibbert Lane facilities will fit into Buxton Lane then You must both be crazy and all for the sake of 2p off a can of beans.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 13, 2011, 01:55:04 PM
The college was in talks with supermarkets well before they applied to the learning skills council !  

Whoever said they weren't?   How could they have put a costed proposal to the funding council without a retail valuation for the site? 

Oh nearly forgot it was Miss Cassidy and Co who went to the supermarkets offering the land ,not the other way round.

Of course it was.  That exactly my point - as we all know, the college took the initiative to sell to a supermarket.  It's MIA's  draft letter to Asda that seems to imply it was 'the other way round': that Asda is taking the initiative, and that a 'school' will close as a consequence.  Utterly confused and confusing.   ::)

One last question Dave & HWL if we have a growing population do you think it's morally acceptable for 500 + children to be put in a super school with limited parking and the rest when they could have had Hibbert Lane with all that parking, open space away from a main road ?

What a great use for council-taxpayers' money: pay £12 million to buy a site for a new school when the council already owns a suitable site elsewhere!   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Razzle on December 13, 2011, 04:29:00 PM
Quote from: Miss Marple on Yesterday at 08:55:45 PM
One last question Dave & HWL if we have a growing population do you think it's morally acceptable for 500 + children to be put in a super school with limited parking and the rest when they could have had Hibbert Lane with all that parking, open space away from a main road ?



I didn't see you campaigning against the new school!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on December 13, 2011, 05:11:09 PM
Dave, I've just noticed your strapline  - 'Standing up for education in Marple'.  Can you send me some of your campaign material or direct me to your website please?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 13, 2011, 05:19:16 PM
Oh dear wrong again Dave ! CAMSFC applied for funding from LSC to improve Hibbert Lane campus.  I know Dave Miss Cassidy and Mr Hubert told me at the meeting I had with them and it's recorded in their Min's   I no you think I am being cheeky but that is not my intention but I really do feel that you shoot from the hip with out the correct information which is available for all to see  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 13, 2011, 06:02:43 PM
Quote from: Miss Marple on Yesterday at 08:55:45 PM
One last question Dave & HWL if we have a growing population do you think it's morally acceptable for 500 + children to be put in a super school with limited parking and the rest when they could have had Hibbert Lane with all that parking, open space away from a main road ?



I didn't see you campaigning against the new school!!!!
Now this may come as a little bit of a surprise to you but I didn't know anything about it until it was being built.  I was aware that Peacefield (my old school ) was being demolished but I never in my wildest dreams thought that they would build that monstrosity and cram as many children as possible into
such a space.  
What's going to happen to our primary school children when MARPLE develops further ?  Where are they going to go to school ?  It's a complete madness to loose education facilities when we have a growing population in Marple and that goes for the Hibbert Lane site also.  Only a fool would dispose of their greatest asset any business person would tell you that ! 
I do hope all the children at the super school will be happy because guess what ? Theres no going back !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 14, 2011, 09:36:39 AM
What's going to happen to our primary school children when MARPLE develops further ?  Where are they going to go to school ?  It's a complete madness to loose education facilities when we have a growing population in Marple

Getting off-topic here, Miss M.  I don't know what your source is for the claim that the local population is growing, but as far as the number of school-age children is concerned, that has been falling for a while now. Hence the closure of Offerton High, and the primary school reorganisation in west Marple.

Have a look at the introduction section of this document: http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=135236.  As you see, The Dale and Peacefield have been operating with more than 25% surplus places.  Far from being 'complete madness', that is unsustainable, especially in these straightened times.   

And as Miss M rightly suggests, the camsfc proposals are not entirely unrelated.  She writes that:
...if you really believe that Hibbert Lane facilities will fit into Buxton Lane then You must both be crazy

...but as we know from the much-read camsfc estates committee minutes of June last year, the Hibbert Lane campus was deemed to be too big for the curriculum offered.  And as I have pointed out before, a new purpose-built building will inevitably be more space-efficient than a converted former school.  With a budget of c £12 million (more if they top it up with a bit of borrowing) the college can be confident of building the replacement space they need at Buxton Lane.  And the expensive consultants Miss M keeps complaining about will have done the number crunching on that, you can be sure! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 14, 2011, 12:10:46 PM
Good to see that the question on the appalling misinformation put out in the letter on the latest MIA newsletter has been avoided and the subject changed.

I take it that this is at least an implicit or tacit acceptance that it is a very unhelpful and ultimately self defeating way for MIA to communicate their message.

Will there be a disclaimer or apology in the next newsletter?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 15, 2011, 01:42:39 PM
Well hello boys !  I have not been changing the subject or avoiding the issue re the MIA newsletter !  but this  may come as a great disappointment to you both, but the fact is I have nothing to do with the newsletter.   What I want although is to remind you both of,  is members of MIA are working daily on the supermarket issue so to them the newsletter is factual and does not scaremonger due to a greater insight they have around the issue
About the primary schools which have closed and the growing population of MARPLE.  I am speaking about all the new housing developments that have been, are going to be and in the process of being built.  For example, the huge Strines development, The Cross Lane development, Dale School site and the Peacefield site just to name a few.   All built as family homes so one would assume that families will move in so over to you two Working Class Hero's !  Where are we going to educate children in MARPLE ! It's simple to me !  We keep building housing developments, people move in with children, those children need educating, super school full, where do the children go to school ?   It's not Rocket Science !  Same goes for CAMSFC 68% of students are from Marple !  Close a college where are all the additional children who's families purchase property in Marple going to go ?    Now theres your starter for 10 lads !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 15, 2011, 04:01:14 PM
members of MIA are working daily on the supermarket issue so to them the newsletter is factual and does not scaremonger due to a greater insight they have around the issue

I'm pleased to learn you didn't draft that model letter, Miss M, because it's nonsense!  If whoever wrote it has 'greater insight' than the rest of us, then God help the rest of us!   ::)

Mind you, almost anyone ought to have greater insight than this: 
Close a college where are all the additional children who's families purchase property in Marple going to go ? 

I may have 'lesser insight', but I do know one thing - the college is not closing! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 15, 2011, 04:16:50 PM
Well hello boys !  I have not been changing the subject or avoiding the issue re the MIA newsletter !  but this  may come as a great disappointment to you both, but the fact is I have nothing to do with the newsletter.   What I want although is to remind you both of,  is members of MIA are working daily on the supermarket issue so to them the newsletter is factual and does not scaremonger due to a greater insight they have around the issue
About the primary schools which have closed and the growing population of MARPLE.  I am speaking about all the new housing developments that have been, are going to be and in the process of being built.  For example, the huge Strines development, The Cross Lane development, Dale School site and the Peacefield site just to name a few.   All built as family homes so one would assume that families will move in so over to you two Working Class Hero's !  Where are we going to educate children in MARPLE ! It's simple to me !  We keep building housing developments, people move in with children, those children need educating, super school full, where do the children go to school ?   It's not Rocket Science !  Same goes for CAMSFC 68% of students are from Marple !  Close a college where are all the additional children who's families purchase property in Marple going to go ?    Now theres your starter for 10 lads !

OK, so who would one contact in relation to the newsletter if not yourself MM?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 15, 2011, 04:43:04 PM
Also, from very recent experience there is more than enough slack in primary school provision in Marple to accommodate new houses being built (not that that is economically viable under current and near future economic conditions). I was directly affected by the Rose Hill school thing and challenged many of the assumptions but it was clear that the council had actually done their homework. But this is all off topic anyway.

As for the college closing and/or Asda closing Marple's schools, this is baseless nonsense. If I had donated my hard earned to MIA I would be incensed that it was being used to propogate such counter productive rubbish and would be seeking to find out who exactly these people are who are behind it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 15, 2011, 04:53:22 PM
Hey HWL I am not distancing myself from the Newsletter !  I am just saying that I didn't write it, if I had I can assure you it would say far worse.  I will find out who you can write to, sad but we haven't got a PO box number yet, but hey it's early days !  
Now what about answering the question of future education for all children in Marple if we continue loosing education sites.  Now I don't know what school you and Dave went to ? But when I was at school 2 into 1 didn't go !  So how do you fit two campus in one when the college can only build on certain areas one being the car park ?   Are you both up to speed on this matter or do you just like talking the talk.   Shall the three of us meet and have a pace out of the land ?  Maybe I am wrong ? But I don't think so !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 15, 2011, 05:29:23 PM
Hey I forgot to say !  Three Governors who have stood down feel that Ms Cassidy and co have been mis guided by the supermarkets consultants , so the news letter may not be that far off the mark.    Asda have mis guided the college if ex governors are to be believed and they will continue to lead them up the garden path until they acquire the land

Hey Dave YPLA is going !  Bet you didn't know that ?  Lol  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 15, 2011, 05:50:36 PM
Hey Dave YPLA is going !  

Yes, quangos don't last long nowadays.  Not sure when the EFA takes over, but the guy who runs the YPLA will be running the new EFA, so it will be business as usual - just a new sign over the door!
 
So how do you fit two campus in one when the college can only build on certain areas one being the car park ?   

I've explained this to you several times, Miss M, and I'm not going to do it again.  However, I am puzzled by your suggestion that the college can 'only build on certain areas one being the car park'.  I know I'm only a guy with 'lesser insight', but where do those of you blessed with 'greater insight' folks get that from?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on December 15, 2011, 06:06:48 PM
Dave,
The playing fields at both Hibbert Lane & Buxton Lane are classed as green fields and cannot be built on. In any planning application whatever that space totals, still has to be there following any development, but not necessarily in the same place (I hope that makes sense)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on December 15, 2011, 06:13:52 PM
Dave,
The playing fields at both Hibbert Lane & Buxton Lane are classed as green fields and cannot be built on. In any planning application whatever that space totals, still has to be there following any development, but not necessarily in the same place (I hope that makes sense)

Indeed.

http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2994/developmentcontrol/planningpolicy/UDP/udpreview_h_appendix4 (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2994/developmentcontrol/planningpolicy/UDP/udpreview_h_appendix4)

The Council’s policy approach has been to strongly resist the loss of any existing public or private sports grounds....

...there can be no justification for any relaxation in the protection of existing formal recreation open space.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 15, 2011, 07:16:33 PM
So that's explained that !   So my offer still stands HWL and Dave shall we meet and have a pace out !  I would prefer a shoot out ! But it's nearly Christmas so Hey lets be nice.  Are you both up for it ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 15, 2011, 07:55:44 PM
Dave,
The playing fields at both Hibbert Lane & Buxton Lane are classed as green fields and cannot be built on. In any planning application whatever that space totals, still has to be there following any development

What is your source for that, Victor?

http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2994/developmentcontrol/planningpolicy/UDP/udpreview_h_appendix4 (http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2994/developmentcontrol/planningpolicy/UDP/udpreview_h_appendix4)

The Council’s policy approach has been to strongly resist the loss of any existing public or private sports grounds....

...there can be no justification for any relaxation in the protection of existing formal recreation open space.

Admittedly I lack the 'greater insight' granted to MIA-people, but my understanding is that the former playing fields at the camsfc Buxton Lane site are no longer 'public or private sports grounds', nor are they 'formal recreation open space', as they have not been used for such a purpose for several  years.  It may be that the college will not need to build beyond the current car park, but if they do, they may try to argue along these lines. 

A bigger obstacle to planning consent, I suspect, will be the perfectly understandable objections of those whose properties adjoin the current green spaces around the Buxton Lane site. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 16, 2011, 09:50:02 AM
It's possible that Victor and others who believe that the college would not be permitted to build on the grassed areas around the Buxton Lane building may be thinking of the provisions of section 77 of the School Standards and Framework Act (1998).  See   http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinance/schoolscapital/landandproperty/a0014574/playing-fields

However, my understanding is that this legislation does not apply to 6th form colleges. This is just one example of the confusion that arises when people persist in referring to camsfc as a school. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 16, 2011, 11:16:08 AM
No ! Wrong again information from SMBC back in June !  Marple remembers and will be watching the developments over the coming months!    ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 16, 2011, 02:43:13 PM
What was the 'information from SMBC'?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 17, 2011, 10:36:15 AM
What was the 'information from SMBC'?
look back through the thread and you will not only bring yourself up to speed but will see information that you have missed or chosen to dismiss  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: TINSLEY on December 18, 2011, 06:15:48 PM
It makes sense to a have a real supermarket. Not the Co op.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 19, 2011, 11:36:58 PM
It makes sense to a have a real supermarket. Not the Co op.
What's a real supermarket ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on December 20, 2011, 01:41:04 PM
Well that's cleared that up then!   ::)
How is your trawl through the 77 pages going Dave? Which one are you up to?
If people  are so vocal on a subject then surely they would retain information and not have to trawl through the topic, especially people from the YES campaign who I will be relying on to advocate for me if the supermarket does go ahead and I have problems and questions which I need actioning   I flippin well hope you and Dave are up to speed then
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 20, 2011, 02:39:33 PM
I didn't waste time 'trawling' HWL, because I knew there was nothing to trawl for, apart from the usual bluff, bluster, waffle and flannel ;-)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 20, 2011, 02:44:08 PM
Well that's cleared that up then!   ::)
How is your trawl through the 77 pages going Dave? Which one are you up to?
If people  are so vocal on a subject then surely they would retain information and not have to trawl through the topic, especially people from the YES campaign who I will be relying on to advocate for me if the supermarket does go ahead and I have problems and questions which I need actioning   I flippin well hope you and Dave are up to speed then
OK, but why do those on the Yes side continually also get asked the same questions, when the position is clearly put within both this thread and on the facebook page? It works both ways.

If there was any 'smoking gun' type evidence showing that the college's plans are unfeasible then it would not be hidden within a 77 page forum thread anyway.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on December 20, 2011, 04:09:50 PM
It makes sense to a have a real supermarket. Not the Co op.
What's a real supermarket ?
           one that you can go to and find shelves  stocked and goods that you want not like the coop . 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: TINSLEY on December 20, 2011, 04:43:47 PM
What is a real supermarket. When staff show that they are acutely serving the public. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on December 21, 2011, 04:34:40 PM
After an absence of several months I have now had an opportunity to return to the MIA website. The latest newsletter seemed a good place to start and I was drawn to a paragraph "What you can do" which included the suggestion, among others, that a letter to the CEO of ASDA might be a good idea. Having read the adjacent sample letter I felt it essential to follow up the suggestion and the text of my letter to
Mr Clarke reads as follows:-

"I have just seen on the “Marple in Action” (MIA) website  a sample of a letter which people might wish to use as a basis for their own letter to you (Marple in Action Update 4th edition December 2011). Since there might be some chance that someone might decide to do so I think it only right that you should know that there are people in Marple who do not share the views expressed.

For some months MIA have been conducting a vigorous campaign against they knew not who in respect of their proposals for they knew not what. It seems that they now have information which leads them to focus on your own company although what your plan might be, assuming you have a plan, is, I believe, still unknown.

The argument had several threads, financial loss to local traders, increased traffic, potential loss of amenities (eg swimming pool), loss of opportunity (sports centre, health centre, social housing etc), light pollution, damage to the environment, supermarkets are unethical  and so on. However it now appears from the sample letter that these arguments have either been abandoned or have at least become secondary since the sample letter focuses on one issue alone, a highly emotive allegation that “your huge company” is setting out to “destroy a school and build land (sic) gifted for education”.

Talk about twisting and distorting the facts and turning reality on its head! We have a local college which is looking for ways of maintaining the important service that it provides to the community at negligible, if any, financial cost to that community, objectives which most rational people would consider highly commendable and difficult to achieve in the current climate. The sample letter includes the statement that   “…we now live in a country that closes schools to open supermarkets.”, a breathtakingly inaccurate comment in this context. I am not aware that anyone has previously suggested that either the governors or any potential buyer of the land are motivated by a desire to close the college. The truth is the exact opposite; their motivation is to ensure that the college remains an asset for Marple and its people for generations to come.

Personally I remain firmly on the fence until the facts emerge. If there is a plan to build a hypermarket, an “Extra” or something like it, on the site I will oppose it. If, however, there is a plan to build a supermarket commensurate with the widely recognized needs of the district and with architecture which owes at least something to the vernacular, such as it is, I believe that most of the opposition will simple evaporate."

I have seen admirable posts which have contributed with sense and realism to both sides of the debate; I have seen a lot of posts which contribute nothing; but I was gobsmacked by this "sample letter" with its appallingly inaccurate statements and its thinly veiled threats. It brings great discredit to MIA
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 21, 2011, 04:50:04 PM
Thank you, alstan, for making the point so well about the ridiculous model letter to Asda which is included in the latest MIA newsletter.  As HWL1973 wrote, it's....
appalling misinformation...............a very unhelpful and ultimately self defeating way for MIA to communicate their message

What appalls me about the letter is its insult to people's intelligence - the assumption by whoever wrote it that anyone would believe it or take it seriously.   And surely HWL is right to call it 'self-defeating', in that such nonsense must inevitably undermine MIA's credibility.  

And I think alstan makes a key point here:
If, however, there is a plan to build a supermarket commensurate with the widely recognized needs of the district and with architecture which owes at least something to the vernacular, such as it is, I believe that most of the opposition will simple evaporate.

It's certainly possible that the opposition could dwindle if the ultimate proposal is right.  And it's interesting that elsewhere on this forum, a poll asking whether people would use the new supermarket once it is built shows 80% responding 'yes' or 'maybe'. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 21, 2011, 04:52:27 PM
After an absence of several months I have now had an opportunity to return to the MIA website. The latest newsletter seemed a good place to start and I was drawn to a paragraph "What you can do" which included the suggestion, among others, that a letter to the CEO of ASDA might be a good idea. Having read the adjacent sample letter I felt it essential to follow up the suggestion and the text of my letter to
Mr Clarke reads as follows:-

"I have just seen on the “Marple in Action” (MIA) website  a sample of a letter which people might wish to use as a basis for their own letter to you (Marple in Action Update 4th edition December 2011). Since there might be some chance that someone might decide to do so I think it only right that you should know that there are people in Marple who do not share the views expressed.

For some months MIA have been conducting a vigorous campaign against they knew not who in respect of their proposals for they knew not what. It seems that they now have information which leads them to focus on your own company although what your plan might be, assuming you have a plan, is, I believe, still unknown.

The argument had several threads, financial loss to local traders, increased traffic, potential loss of amenities (eg swimming pool), loss of opportunity (sports centre, health centre, social housing etc), light pollution, damage to the environment, supermarkets are unethical  and so on. However it now appears from the sample letter that these arguments have either been abandoned or have at least become secondary since the sample letter focuses on one issue alone, a highly emotive allegation that “your huge company” is setting out to “destroy a school and build land (sic) gifted for education”.

Talk about twisting and distorting the facts and turning reality on its head! We have a local college which is looking for ways of maintaining the important service that it provides to the community at negligible, if any, financial cost to that community, objectives which most rational people would consider highly commendable and difficult to achieve in the current climate. The sample letter includes the statement that   “…we now live in a country that closes schools to open supermarkets.”, a breathtakingly inaccurate comment in this context. I am not aware that anyone has previously suggested that either the governors or any potential buyer of the land are motivated by a desire to close the college. The truth is the exact opposite; their motivation is to ensure that the college remains an asset for Marple and its people for generations to come.

Personally I remain firmly on the fence until the facts emerge. If there is a plan to build a hypermarket, an “Extra” or something like it, on the site I will oppose it. If, however, there is a plan to build a supermarket commensurate with the widely recognized needs of the district and with architecture which owes at least something to the vernacular, such as it is, I believe that most of the opposition will simple evaporate."

I have seen admirable posts which have contributed with sense and realism to both sides of the debate; I have seen a lot of posts which contribute nothing; but I was gobsmacked by this "sample letter" with its appallingly inaccurate statements and its thinly veiled threats. It brings great discredit to MIA
 
Couldn't have summed this up better myself alstan. A brilliantly worded summary and letter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 21, 2011, 04:55:20 PM
Thank you, alstan, for making the point so well about the ridiculous model letter to Asda which is included in the latest MIA newsletter.  As HWL1973 wrote, it's....
appalling misinformation...............a very unhelpful and ultimately self defeating way for MIA to communicate their message

What appalls me about the letter is its insult to people's intelligence - the assumption by whoever wrote it that anyone would believe it or take it seriously.   And surely HWL is right to call it 'self-defeating', in that such nonsense must inevitably undermine MIA's credibility. 
The other thing is Dave that MIA, in the form of their representative on this forum, is going on the defensive over it. If they listened to constructive criticism they might get somewhere. If I was a donor to MIA and had issues with their communicated messages then apparently I'd have to wait until a PO box was set up to send a letter to it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on December 21, 2011, 08:25:31 PM
I didn't waste time 'trawling' HWL, because I knew there was nothing to trawl for, apart from the usual bluff, bluster, waffle and flannel ;-)

Perhaps you should have done a bit of trawling before being so critical Dave. I remember exactly what MM was talking about regarding the college "only being able to build on the car park" or the brownfield part of the site. It is something that I have heard mention of often and it was confirmed by the Council's Paul Lawrence at the Extraordinary Area Comittee Meeting on 12 October. He said that the council's planning policy accepts "no nett loss of public open space".

I would have thought that everyone with strong views either way should listen to everything that was said on the video of this meeting if they did not attend but if you what to go straight to it then it is 65 minutes in. Go to the MiA web site and scroll down to the 21 October news: www.marple-in-action.org.uk
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on December 21, 2011, 09:37:15 PM
It is obvious to me and others that the offending sample letter should not of been published.It has,and nothing can be done about it. There is no point backtracking now,What is done is done!any form of apology would be would be frowned upon.So there really would be no point.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on December 21, 2011, 10:07:03 PM
commensurate with the widely recognized needs of the district
 

Interesting, who has established these 'widely recognized needs'?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on December 21, 2011, 10:48:19 PM
Thank you, alstan, for making the point so well about the ridiculous model letter to Asda which is included in the latest MIA newsletter.  As HWL1973 wrote, it's....
appalling misinformation...............a very unhelpful and ultimately self defeating way for MIA to communicate their message

What appalls me about the letter is its insult to people's intelligence - the assumption by whoever wrote it that anyone would believe it or take it seriously.   And surely HWL is right to call it 'self-defeating', in that such nonsense must inevitably undermine MIA's credibility. 
The other thing is Dave that MIA, in the form of their representative on this forum, is going on the defensive over it. If they listened to constructive criticism they might get somewhere. If I was a donor to MIA and had issues with their communicated messages then apparently I'd have to wait until a PO box was set up to send a letter to it.
I was not aware that MIA had a representitive on this forum.I don't think many MIA supporters are aware of this forum,and would not get involved if they did.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 22, 2011, 12:14:08 AM
I didn't waste time 'trawling' HWL, because I knew there was nothing to trawl for, apart from the usual bluff, bluster, waffle and flannel ;-)

Perhaps you should have done a bit of trawling before being so critical Dave. I remember exactly what MM was talking about regarding the college "only being able to build on the car park" or the brownfield part of the site. It is something that I have heard mention of often and it was confirmed by the Council's Paul Lawrence at the Extraordinary Area Comittee Meeting on 12 October. He said that the council's planning policy accepts "no nett loss of public open space".

I would have thought that everyone with strong views either way should listen to everything that was said on the video of this meeting if they did not attend but if you what to go straight to it then it is 65 minutes in. Go to the MiA web site and scroll down to the 21 October news: www.marple-in-action.org.uk

Thanks for the reference, admin.  I have looked at the video and noted what was said.  Mr Lawrence undoubtedly knows what he is talking about, and I would not want to take issue with him on any planning matter. However, I would be interested to know the legal basis of the council's policy, and in particular, the grounds on which the council would regard the college's land as 'public open space'. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on December 22, 2011, 10:25:57 AM
Oh Hello are you forgetting something, you know. Like an apology ? 

Miss M, you tried to send me off on a wild goose chase, looking for:
....information from SMBC back in June ! 

So I think it's Miss M that owes me an apology, because the actual information which admin kindly provided turned out to be from October! 

But let's get back to the issue at hand.  Looking at the video clip again, although the sound is not very clear, the key phrase from Paul Lawrence seems to be something like 'the council will accept no net loss of public open space'. 

This begs the question of course - what is 'public open space'.  Definitions are quite hard to find on the web. but here's one: 'Open, grassed and hard landscaped areas fully accessible to the public and maintained in a condition suitable for the purpose it is being provided for.'   Source: http://www.exeter.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=3120&p=0

I'm not at all convinced that the land around the college's Buxton Lane building comes within that definition of 'public open space'.  The grounds of places such as schools, colleges and hospitals may be 'public' in the sense that they are publicly owned, but they are not 'fully accessible to the public', in the way that, say, Brabyn's Park or Hawk Green is.  If any of us decided to wander about in the grounds of the college or of one of the local schools, I think we would technically be trespassers, and we could be challenged and asked to leave, unless we could show that we had legitimate business there.  That doesn't sound like 'public open space' to me.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on December 22, 2011, 02:10:48 PM
Will you join Dave HWL and myself to look at the sites?

Hi Miss Marple,

OK, first of all please let me know which offensive picture or messages remain on the Yes facebook page. Anything deemed offensive is taken off. [Note: posts relating to this item have been removed because they were becoming too personal and abusive. Admin]

Secondly, the reason why I have not taken you up on your invitation is that I absolutely do not see the point of it. I know the site very well for starters having attended it as a night class student only last year, and can look at it on google maps to jog my memory. But also neither you, Dave nor I are experts on surveying, architecture, planning law or educational buildings (apart from Dave on that last one it seems) so what would we gain from pacing around it and being told again of some councillor statements buried away earlier in this thread?

Also, it's not like we've not met up already is it? I enjoyed debating with you in person back in September and I do admire the passion of people within MIA. Rather that than people who show no interest whatsoever in local matters or in politics on any level.

I don't agree with you on your underlying arguments though and unless Asda unveil plans for some hideous megastore I probably never will.

Finally, I do have some criticisms of the MIA campaign which I wish would be seen as constructive and not met with a wall of denials or just ignored. The recent newsletter has confirmed my suspicions that you need to do things better in my humble opinion. Especially if I was a donor I would be concerned that:

- There does not appear to be a published list of roles within the organisation, with contact names for each. It does appear to be a little 'shadowy' with tales of unknown people with 'greater insight' working tirelessly and right through Christmas. People come on here and post with two hats on. As soon as they are asked if they represent MIA they take that hat off.

- There appear to be no published accounts, or evidence of where donated money is being spent

- There appears to be a relationship with the Marple Civic society as donations are routed in this way. But this relationship does not appear to be formalised in writing, such that a suspicious person might think it has just been set up as a tax dodge. One would hope that Marple Civic society have some say in the running of MIA as a result and are 100% in approval of their messages and actions, but there is no transparency on this.

- There seems to be a 'word of mouth' culture whereby communication is done via a helpline with no audit trail of who said what to whom. This seems to be the way that evidence is presented too (this person heard someone say this in a meeting and told this person who told MIA etc). If a donor or anyone else wanted an email or other written conversation with MIA, how would they go about this?

- Written communication when done via the newsletters does not seem to have any quality control, see the model letter on the last one

- It is quite easy to think that MIA is primarily driven by protectionism on the part of local shopkeepers. Indeed, the message on the MIA website was toned down as a result of this. But having the co-op display a 'No' poster is a serious own goal. Stating that 'well the co-op has always been big in Marple' is not sufficient as a response either as it smacks of resistance to change

Like I said, I hope these points can get a measured response from someone in MIA and can be seen as constructive criticism. The last thing needed as a response is 'Well why aren't the Yes campaign doing this?' because the answer to that is obvious. The Yes campaign do not accept donations.

By accepting donations you make yourselves a lot more accountable and responsible and I would hope that by addressing the above points you can establish a level of governance which an active donor would expect. You may indeed be working very hard, but maybe you need to work a little smarter.

As stated previously in many places, the Yes campaign was never intended to be a mirror image of MIA. It states that quite clearly on the FB page. Indeed, people in favour of something act very differently from those against something, and the Yes campaign has to embrace this. It is basic human nature and has been referenced elsewhere in these threads but again can be seen very clearly in the reactions of the general public to government cuts and recent public sector strikes. Actually, I won't ask you to trawl through the forum, you can find the discussion on this here: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3962.15 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3962.15)

Finally, I sense a little bit of vitriol creeping back in. Not really the time of year for it! The last thing anyone needs is for any campaigning to get personal and that all contributions to debates on local public life are better than none at all.

Merry Christmas  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on December 22, 2011, 05:05:59 PM
Thank you to those who have read my post yesterday and particularly to those who share my view on that particular topic.

In response to the question from "Steptoe and Son" as to who established the "widely recognised needs of the district" I would answer that I think MIA has. As I said yesterday it is some time since I last referred to the MIA forum but I have a clear recollection that there was widespread support for the view that the Coop is inadequate and that a supermarket of a suitable size and in a suitable location might be welcome. After all, there is no campaign that I am aware of against a supermarket in Marple, only against a "supermarket on the Hibbert Lane College site"; no more than that.

One other aspect that I didn't mention yesterday is that the letter is defamatory and it is not just the author but also the publisher, which I take to be MIA, who might be held liable in the event of a successful action. There are, of course, defences to an action for defamation and I seem to remember reading in the past that MIA is supported by a band of professional people so presumably MIA were advised that there would be a defence and it was safe to publish. However, if I were a donor, I would be a little concerned at the prospect of my donations ending up in the pocket of ASDA and their CEO.

It reminds me of that rash of illegal flyposting in the early days of the campaign
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on December 22, 2011, 05:14:42 PM

In response to the question from "Steptoe and Son" as to who established the "widely recognised needs of the district" I would answer that I think MIA has. As I said yesterday it is some time since I last referred to the MIA forum but I have a clear recollection that there was widespread support for the view that the Coop is inadequate and that a supermarket of a suitable size and in a suitable location might be welcome. After all, there is no campaign that I am aware of against a supermarket in Marple, only against a "supermarket on the Hibbert Lane College site"; no more than that.


I'm afraid you're going to have to do better than that Alstan, particularly if you are taking others to task about their claims.  Where is the proof that there is 'widespread support for the view that the Coop is inadequate and that a supermarket of a suitable size and in a suitable location might be welcome'.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss C on December 22, 2011, 05:38:23 PM
As someone for whom the jury is out re a new supermarket, it is increasingly difficult to identify pertinent information on here. Why is it so hard for some to sustain a robust debate and respond to differing opinions without entering into personal attacks on each other? These insults to each other discredit you and mean that others of us will miss other salient points you may make amidst all the back biting. Surely you can voice opinions without the added nonsense?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 02, 2012, 04:58:14 PM
I do agree, Miss C - thank you.  And here is my effort at resuming this dialogue in a calm and civil way (let's see how long we can keep it up ;-).

There is, inevitably, a lot of disagreement on this issue, but there are also things that most of us would agree on.  Not surprisingly, we don't mention those much, but here's a few for starters:

1.   A new supermarket on Hibbert Lane would increase traffic congestion in Marple.
2.   It would mean that fewer of us will go elsewhere (Bredbury, Hazel Grove etc) to do our main supermarket shopping.
3.   It would have an impact on other local shops (but no-one can forecast for certain what that will be)
4.   It will almost certainly not receive planning permission from Stockport Council.  The only way it could go ahead would be if the Council decision were to be overturned on appeal. 
5.   Er...
6.   That's it   ;D

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: TINSLEY on January 02, 2012, 06:05:43 PM
The issue of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane on this forum is very one sided.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 02, 2012, 06:22:53 PM
In what way Tinsley?  If you mean it's generally against a supermarket, perhaps this just reflects the opinion across Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on January 02, 2012, 06:35:27 PM
5.   Er...
6.   That's it   ;D

I would suggest one thing you've missed off that list Dave is that there will also be an impact on families who live near to the site.

I would have thought that we could agree on this too?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: TINSLEY on January 02, 2012, 09:31:39 PM
No it's just a joke when a person in control of this forum can have the final say. Thank you and goodbye.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 02, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
No it's just a joke when a person in control of this forum can have the final say. Thank you and goodbye.

If you do decide to check back into the forum to keep up with the debate, it's worth noting that you have misunderstand what the Administrators and Moderators do. They do have the final say but only choose to exercise that right for posts which are deemed offensive or irrelevant. Posts which go against their views are NOT removed as long as they contribute to the debate.

It would be a shame to see any user decide to leave the forum. However, reviewing your posts (click here to see them (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2409;sa=showPosts;start=0)) it does appear that you have contributed little apart from snarky one-line replies towards other users. If you decide to stay then it would be nice to see your actual viewpoint expressed clearly for other people to debate.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 02, 2012, 11:18:42 PM
5.   Er...
6.   That's it   ;D

I would suggest one thing you've missed off that list Dave is that there will also be an impact on families who live near to the site.

I would have thought that we could agree on this too?

Yes, indeed we could - I should have thought of that. 

However, re:
The issue of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane on this forum is very one sided.

....I can't agree at all.  The majority view by posters on this forum seems to be against the supermarket proposal, but there is also a significant minority view which I and others have expressed. So there are clearly two sides to the argument.  (Needless to say, the  majority/minority views among the small number of people posting on this forum should not be taken as representative of the majority/minority views among the wider community.) 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on January 03, 2012, 02:04:23 PM
5.   Er...
6.   That's it   ;D

I would suggest one thing you've missed off that list Dave is that there will also be an impact on families who live near to the site.

I would have thought that we could agree on this too?

Agree,

and (6) could be that it would allow the college to gain the maximum possible funds to reinvest from any sale of the Hibbert Lane land
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 03, 2012, 03:31:46 PM
No it's just a joke when a person in control of this forum can have the final say. Thank you and goodbye.

 Does that mean they have got the huf and won't be posting again . ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 03, 2012, 04:11:40 PM
Agreed, HWL.  So for the sake of clarity, here's a revised list of things which we seem to agree that we agree on.  ;D

1.   A new supermarket on Hibbert Lane would increase traffic congestion in Marple.
2.   It would mean that fewer of us will go elsewhere (Bredbury, Hazel Grove etc) to do our main supermarket shopping.
3.   It would have an impact on other local shops (but no-one can forecast for certain what that will be)
4.   It would have a (mostly negative) impact on those living very close to the site.
5.   It would almost certainly not receive planning permission from Stockport Council.  The only way it could go ahead would be if the Council decision were to be overturned on appeal. 
6.   It would allow the college to gain the maximum possible funds to reinvest from the sale of the land.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 03, 2012, 08:45:54 PM
Copies of the no to a supermarket petition were handed to councillors at the last Area Committee Meeting along with comments from the community on how a development on the Hibbert Lane site would impact on local residents and businesses.   The petition is not complete and the councillors have been informed that the list of people who are opposed to a supermarket development on Hibbert Lane is growing.
It will soon be that time of year when local elections will be being held so MIA just wanted to remind our elected members of the strength of feeling in the community against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  You could say they have been given the heads up prior to election day so let's hope they take notice of the voice of the people, one can only hope ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sleepless on January 04, 2012, 05:42:07 PM
I don't care who the "shadowy" members of MIA are, I just find it really encouraging that there are people out there who are prepared to stand up and do something for their community, whether you agree with them or not.  It makes a refreshing contrast to the usual apathy displayed by the public when dealing with matters social or political.  If you examine the tactics used by the supermarkets to get their own way there is little room to criticise the methods used by MIA in their work to galvanise opposition to having one built on Hibbert Lane.  Trying to cast aspersions on their integrity is a cheap shot.  (No, I am not a member of MIA, just a supporter.)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 04, 2012, 06:29:08 PM
Sleepless, you write:
there is little room to criticise the methods used by MIA

Now in principle I agree that it is good that there are people who are prepared to fight for what they believe in.  But there really is a lot to criticise about MIA.  Not about what it is doing, but the way it has been doing it.  Look back at posts 1148 and 1158 in this thread, for a comprehensive critique of what's wrong with the way MIA works.   In particular, there is a real concern that MIA has been spreading inaccurate information about the college - for example, that the college is selling land because it is in financial difficulties (false), and that the proposal to consolidate  on the Buxton Lane site is a 'smokescreen' for a secret plan to move away from Marple altogether (also false). 

There is also increasing concern at the way MIA claims to speak for 'the community'.  Just look at the post immediately before yours, sleepless:

Copies of the no to a supermarket petition were handed to councillors at the last Area Committee Meeting along with comments from the community on how a development on the Hibbert Lane site would impact on local residents and businesses.....   let's hope they take notice of the voice of the people, one can only hope ?

MIA is a self-appointed group of largely anonymous individuals.  Here's their website... http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm

....However deeply you delve into it you will not find a list of officers or members.  We have no idea who they are, apart from a couple of individuals who speak for them on this forum.  There is no evidence that they represent the majority view of residents.   And yet they claim to speak for 'the community' in their dealings with councillors.  They even describe themselves here as 'the voice of the people', for heaven's sake!   ::)   

MIA does not speak for the community and they need to stop claiming that they do.   It would also be helpful if they could develop a communications strategy, with the emphasis on putting out clear, consistent and accurate information.  Then some of us might start to take them more seriously! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 04, 2012, 06:44:05 PM
Dave, very well put. There's an excellent article by Sunny Hundal in the Guardian from years ago. I think it's still online here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/nov/20/thissystemofselfappointedl). It discusses the very same concerns about self-appointed "community leaders", although in his case he made the point about leaders of religious minorities.

The best thing that MIA can do would be to publish who they are, how to contact them and what function they perform in the group. After all, they are happy to publish contact details to all the college governors, local councillors and our local MP. Admittedly, these details are all on the public record, but if the group talks so much about shadowy dealings then surely they should not fall into the same trap.

I admire the drive that has brought the matter of the supermarket to the public's attention. The worst thing that could happen is for all that effort and drive to be cheapened by the group not being as open as they would like their "opposition" to be.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 04, 2012, 07:55:29 PM
In what way are MIA shadowy and anonymous?If you feel the need, go and ask the ever changing people who man the Saturday stall who they are.Though what purpose it would serve I don't know.All these people are glad to help,they can call theirselves members or supporters.It is not a secret society ::)As for speaking for the community, they do.The large part of the community who do not want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.There is nothing to stop supermarket supporters speaking on behalf of the community that want one.Simple!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 04, 2012, 08:10:46 PM
I don't mean the volunteers and leaflet deliverers. Who is the chair, the secretary, the treasurer and the press officer etc. I'm sure those positions don't change on a weekly basis. If MiA want to be considered as an open community organisation then they should be part of it and not anonymous. Currently the only way we know who they are is though passing mentions on the MiA website, for example David Hoyle, Diane Jackson and Rick Hardisty. I'm not against MiA in any way, but I would like to know who the people are who purport to speak for me and the rest of Marple.

If I were part of it I would WANT people to know who I was so that I could get my message across to as many people as possible.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 04, 2012, 10:03:44 PM
I don't mean the volunteers and leaflet deliverers. Who is the chair, the secretary, the treasurer and the press officer etc. I'm sure those positions don't change on a weekly basis. If MiA want to be considered as an open community organisation then they should be part of it and not anonymous. Currently the only way we know who they are is though passing mentions on the MiA website, for example David Hoyle, Diane Jackson and Rick Hardisty. I'm not against MiA in any way, but I would like to know who the people are who purport to speak for me and the rest of Marple.

If I were part of it I would WANT people to know who I was so that I could get my message across to as many people as possible.
Please re-read my post.Rest of Marple?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on January 04, 2012, 10:20:15 PM
Sleepless, you write:
there is little room to criticise the methods used by MIA

Now in principle I agree that it is good that there are people who are prepared to fight for what they believe in.  But there really is a lot to criticise about MIA.  Not about what it is doing, but the way it has been doing it.  Look back at posts 1148 and 1158 in this thread, for a comprehensive critique of what's wrong with the way MIA works.   In particular, there is a real concern that MIA has been spreading inaccurate information about the college - for example, that the college is selling land because it is in financial difficulties (false), and that the proposal to consolidate  on the Buxton Lane site is a 'smokescreen' for a secret plan to move away from Marple altogether (also false).  

There is also increasing concern at the way MIA claims to speak for 'the community'.  Just look at the post immediately before yours, sleepless:

Copies of the no to a supermarket petition were handed to councillors at the last Area Committee Meeting along with comments from the community on how a development on the Hibbert Lane site would impact on local residents and businesses.....   let's hope they take notice of the voice of the people, one can only hope ?

MIA is a self-appointed group of largely anonymous individuals.  Here's their website... http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm

....However deeply you delve into it you will not find a list of officers or members.  We have no idea who they are, apart from a couple of individuals who speak for them on this forum.  There is no evidence that they represent the majority view of residents.   And yet they claim to speak for 'the community' in their dealings with councillors.  They even describe themselves here as 'the voice of the people', for heaven's sake!   ::)    

MIA does not speak for the community and they need to stop claiming that they do.   It would also be helpful if they could develop a communications strategy, with the emphasis on putting out clear, consistent and accurate information.  Then some of us might start to take them more seriously!  

Post 1158

http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg20891#msg20891 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg20891#msg20891)

commends MIA for it's passion and I think I then mention twice that this is constructive criticism. It would be good to be able to send this in some way to MIA but there is no address for them, whether email or snail mail.

For an organisation that seeks and receives donations, it is especially important that this kind of transparency is established.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 04, 2012, 11:37:21 PM
Please re-read my post.Rest of Marple?

I'm on record as being against the building of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane, hence "me and the rest of Marple", perhaps it should have been "me and the majority of Marple" to be absolutely clear. I still don't know who the group of people are who make up MiA.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 04, 2012, 11:52:27 PM
Copies of the no to a supermarket petition were handed to councillors at the last Area Committee Meeting along with comments from the community on how a development on the Hibbert Lane site would impact on local residents and businesses.   The petition is not complete and the councillors have been informed that the list of people who are opposed to a supermarket development on Hibbert Lane is growing.
It will soon be that time of year when local elections will be being held so MIA just wanted to remind our elected members of the strength of feeling in the community against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  You could say they have been given the heads up prior to election day so let's hope they take notice of the voice of the people, one can only hope ?
I should have said the voice of the people who are against a supermarket on Hibbert lane so apologies to anyone who was offended  :-\.
If people  have petitions that are complete you can  drop them off in the Stationary Shop on Stockport Road where you can also collect blank petitions.  Thank you !   What a Team !  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2012, 10:06:24 AM
As for speaking for the community, they do.The large part of the community who do not want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.

Very clever, Mrs O, but it won't do!   As Miss M has implicitly acknowledged in her most recent post, it was misleading for MIA to claim to 'speak for the community' or be 'the voice of the people', and hopefully such claims will now cease. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on January 05, 2012, 11:28:17 AM
having "done " this sort of "start small... take off.. gets huge quick..no experience ... working as hard as you can at something you've not done before with people you have never known before unaware of everyones strength and weaknesses and basically learning on the cuff and not always being perfect....and running a full family and professional life as well.... sort of"  campaign... myself...

The first thing we did do was make each and everyone of us accessible to everyone.  private phone numbers and email addresses were given to everyone.. and everyone phoned.. it was nice actually :)  and yes there were crank calls.. and horrible emails at times.. but in end everything about it was positive... and it can be put into place NOW.. learn by mistakes etc? 

Getting to the point of the topic though, Its a very bad choice of words by very enthusiastic committed people who are understandably so engrossed in this campaign that sometimes they say how They feel and what they truly believe, but its not really politically correct. its just words.. MIA don't speak FOR the people of Marple, but they do represent the popular opinion in Marple at this current time and its daft suggesting they don't!

Thank you Miss Marple for apologising even though its clearly not YOUR fault, but as a result of the rest of MIA not being active here, even though several have asked them to be, you do tend to get the flack!

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2012, 12:38:06 PM
I think Lisa makes some very valid points here, especially about the inevitable process of a new organisation (MIA) finding its feet.

However, I think we'd all be interested to see the evidence for this:
MIA.... do represent the popular opinion in Marple at this current time...

AFAIK there is no reliable evidence as to what is the majority view of Marple residents about the proposed supermarket. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 05, 2012, 05:01:04 PM
As for speaking for the community, they do.The large part of the community who do not want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.

Very clever, Mrs O, but it won't do!   As Miss M has implicitly acknowledged in her most recent post, it was misleading for MIA to claim to 'speak for the community' or be 'the voice of the people', and hopefully such claims will now cease. 
Dave,I am not trying to be clever,I really can't see much difference between Miss Marples post and mine except an apology,My you are prickly this new Year ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2012, 05:24:47 PM
Sorry Mrs O - I didn't mean to be prickly   :'(  What I meant was that it's a good try, arguing that 'speaking for the community' meant 'speaking for part of the community', or 'we are the voice of the people' meant 'we are the voice of some of the people'!   But it won't wash, and Miss M has conceded that by amending it to
I should have said the voice of the people who are against a supermarket on Hibbert lane
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 05, 2012, 05:44:05 PM
Sorry Mrs O - I didn't mean to be prickly   :'(  What I meant was that it's a good try, arguing that 'speaking for the community' meant 'speaking for part of the community', or 'we are the voice of the people' meant 'we are the voice of some of the people'!   But it won't wash, and Miss M has conceded that by amending it to
I should have said the voice of the people who are against a supermarket on Hibbert lane

Dave,it is obvious to everyone that they are not speaking on behalf of the people who want a supermarket!So why are you making a big deal of it?You are being very childish like my self for continuing this,so over and out from me on this one.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 05, 2012, 05:44:17 PM
In all honesty Dave my apology was a little tongue in cheek because if truth be told  since the MIA campaign started in June 2011, I have only really spoken to people who are against a supermarket albeit from 5 local people from the YES campaign and yourself who for all I know could live in London ?   So it's difficult for me to understand who all the people are who you say are in support of a supermarket.  Because nearly every Sat for months I have been on the MIA stall speaking to hundreds of people who are against the development.
I take on board that this may well be difficult for you to believe so I am offering you, HWL and Tina an invitation to come along to the stall and spend a couple of hours with MIA so you can see first hand the concerns the community have regarding a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane.  
Now if this offer is refused by anyone I will assume that the three of you do really understand the strength of feeling against the development but would prefer to continue to post on issues you have limited insight in towards the communities Concerns for their continued quality of life if this ridicules development goes ahead in the middle of a residential area.
Will any of you take up my offer ? I do hope so !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2012, 06:30:48 PM
Truly amazing  :o  So let me get this straight: you guys up there on Planet MIA seriously believe that by talking to people in a tent in Market Street on Saturdays, you are getting an accurate representation of the majority view of the 23,000 residents of Marple.   Really?? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 05, 2012, 06:41:03 PM
Was that a yes or a no Dave ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 05, 2012, 06:53:11 PM
Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 05, 2012, 07:04:11 PM
Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.

To clarify - I am pleased that MIA have been formed to ask questions of any scheme and make sure all is above board. What I don't want is a self appointed local pressure group taking on the role of a local planning committe and trying to dictate what is and is not acceptable in our town. That's what the planning system is for.

I've also been slightly concerned about the odd post on here that suggests that some members of MIA would be looking to flex the pressure group's muscles and give their tenpennthworth on other  issues in Marple - let's hope the group stays focussed on their raison d'être.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 05, 2012, 07:27:01 PM
Truly amazing  :o  So let me get this straight: you guys up there on Planet MIA seriously believe that by talking to people in a tent in Market Street on Saturdays, you are getting an accurate representation of the majority view of the 23,000 residents of Marple.   Really?? 
Yes Dave ! These people are called the community!!!    I bet that we get more to the MIA tent than you get to  your armchair  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on January 05, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that :)


Quote
In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.


got to agree with this!  I think ALOT of people do it for exactly that reason. Its the reason i keep well away from MIA!  Maybe someone should take note of this.. you are alienating people who might normally support you!!!!

I'm quite disappointed that you didn't mean your apology Miss Marple because it certainly warranted one. I consider you the voice of MIA and it doesn't matter how much you say you are not whilst the rest of them hide behind a website and a personally anonymous newsletter and a help line number you will continue to be.
At the same time... you lot are being a bit pedantic... its incorrect use of words as stated in my previous post its an enthusiastic bunch of people believing they are doing the right thing... give them some slack to put it right.. but at the same time MIA non-representatives stop fighting it, you' re getting to sound like politicians who also NEVER accept they make mistakes!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 05, 2012, 07:46:17 PM
Quote
To clarify - I am pleased that MIA have been formed to ask questions of any scheme and make sure all is above board. What I don't want is a self appointed local pressure group taking on the role of a local planning committe and trying to dictate what is and is not acceptable in our town. That's what the planning system is for.

I've also been slightly concerned about the odd post on here that suggests that some members of MIA would be looking to flex the pressure group's muscles and give their tenpennthworth on other  issues in Marple - let's hope the group stays focussed on their raison d'être.


So Belly you don't want a pressure group dictating what is not acceptable in our town.Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss C on January 05, 2012, 09:04:57 PM
I agree with Dave. In my opinion, it seems a strange conclusion to reach, that talking to hundreds of people around the local shops in Marple equates to the views of the thousands of people who live here. What about the hundreds of people who live here but don't use the local shops or the people who give the stall a wide berth because they don't want to get into a discussion? This can't be an accurate representation of the majority view, surely?As regards polls and fb, in my albeit limited experience of polls,people only bother with them if they have a very strong opinion and there is often a silent majority.
I may have missed this too, so apologies if I am wrong but has there actually been an answer with regards to the seeming lack of transparency of the MIA leaders? Why are there no contact details etc? I read this point with interest as it was a point I wanted to raise but given the fact we are on page 80, I wondered if I had missed it etc! I can't understand why a credible organisation would not have this available. Is this something MIA would consider doing?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on January 05, 2012, 10:28:10 PM
In all honesty Dave my apology was a little tongue in cheek because if truth be told  since the MIA campaign started in June 2011, I have only really spoken to people who are against a supermarket albeit from 5 local people from the YES campaign and yourself who for all I know could live in London ?   So it's difficult for me to understand who all the people are who you say are in support of a supermarket.  Because nearly every Sat for months I have been on the MIA stall speaking to hundreds of people who are against the development.
I take on board that this may well be difficult for you to believe so I am offering you, HWL and Tina an invitation to come along to the stall and spend a couple of hours with MIA so you can see first hand the concerns the community have regarding a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane. 
Now if this offer is refused by anyone I will assume that the three of you do really understand the strength of feeling against the development but would prefer to continue to post on issues you have limited insight in
towards the communities Concerns for their continued quality of life if this ridicules development goes ahead
in the middle of a residential area
Will any of you take up my offer ? I do hope so !
The invitation is open to you also Miss C ! I do hope you will take up the invitation as the three I have already invited for what ever reason have not taken up my invitation, which seems a little strange given that you would have the opportunity to meet in person MIA members, which I feel would be better than a meaningless list of names who I am sure you would not know !   

I am declining your invitation as I have already met some of you, and don't feel the need to meet with you again.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 05, 2012, 11:36:02 PM
Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that :)

This rings bells with me too, although my totally non-scientific impression, having had various chats with friends, neighbours, people I meet in shops etc, has been that opinion is fairly evenly divided.  But please let's not pretend that this is in any way representative of the population of Marple! 

As for this:
Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.

...that is just ridiculous, and a typical example of the MIA tendency to exaggerate and personalise issues.  When colleges acquire or dispose of major assets (land, buildings etc), these are matters for the Governing Body to determine.  The notion that camsfc is disposing of the Hibbert Lane site because a 'woman with too much power from Stoke dictated it' is absurd.  The reality is that the governors of the college are doing the best they can, in these difficult times, to improve their facilities for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  It's as simple as that! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 09:18:39 AM
No it's not as simple as that Dave !  Are you going to take me up on the invitation to visit the stall and meet with MIA members ? Much better than a list of meaningless names wouldn't you agree.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on January 06, 2012, 11:11:52 AM
Miss Marple... did you read my post?  You just seem to concentrate on Daves comments!
I've visited the stall too I still want a list of names and numbers, i think my reasons are acceptable and I believe its a view many others hold too, without it people do not trust any of you!  Just by avoiding the issue on here, and the lack of transparency of this organisation, the dipping into other areas without any authority ,and most of the refusal to accept that you as  group have made mistakes means I have absolutely no support for MIA at all any more!

Dave... I hate to bring this up as I know it ll start the rounds again... but I haven't seen any guarantee that the money raised will be reinvested in Marple so constantly suggesting they are doing it for the benefit of our children is not necessarily correct.. its purely a business decision lets stop pretending otherwise (I don't necessarily disagree with the reasoning behind that decision)  and what many argue is that it shouldn't be, that an educational establishment is NOT just a business but part of the community as a whole, in fact they claim to be exactly that !  Their behaviour however has been completely the opposite and I do think if there were local people who were part of our community on the governing body it would have a different ethos and feel to it, and though they might be still selling the land part of the decision making process on who to sell it to would be whats best for the area. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 12:28:14 PM
Lisa of course MIA have made mistakes we are a group of local residents who feel passionate that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would be a mistake.  We hopefully learn by our mistakes but what must be remembered is that we have MIA members who are sympathetic to the cause and if details were released it could be detrimental to their employment ie a conflict of interests.  The action line is always there for people to contact, the stall is a regular feature in the centre, and this web site serves as a point of contact.
I am no stranger to court  and have represented people in employment law cases where cases of conflict of interests has been a big issue with at times dire consequences for an individual, so MIA respect peoples right to remain in the 'back office'
I am sure when/ if the plans are submitted  MIA will become more transparent and will be looking to increase our numbers.  I did mention at the start of this topic that MIA was formed around my kitchen table and from there we have gained a band of people from all walks of life who bring skills, knowledge and a greater understanding of planning law.
I have also mentioned that MIA has different groups of individuals who work in teams within their own area of particular practice, there are members that even I have not met.
We are not a secret organisation and I fully understand how this may appear but sadly I am also fully aware of how so people can use this to in someway try to bring MIA into disrepute.  It's going to be a long haul and like I have said before there are really only 2 or 3 members of MIA who post on here.  I have continued to post to keep people informed of developments but I am becoming increasingly disappointed in some peoples contributions striving to give MIA a negative press instead of getting of their backside and starting an opposition group if they feel that there is a need.
Please do not continue to frighten MIA members from posting as this is at this moment the only source of information that you will receive that will help everyone keep up to speed with developments .  Please be respectful of our cause. MM


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2012, 12:59:17 PM
Dave... I hate to bring this up as I know it ll start the rounds again... but I haven't seen any guarantee that the money raised will be reinvested in Marple

It's a very good question.  In theory, camsfc governors are free to allocate funds between courses and campuses as they see fit.  So theoretically there is no guarantee that the proceeds from the sale of Hibbert Lane will be re-invested in Marple.

In practice, however, it is as close to certain as makes no difference.  The reason for this is as follows.    In order to dispose of Hibbert Lane, the college will have needed to get consent from its funding body, the Young People's Learning Agency (YPLA).   This consent will have had conditions attached.  One of the standard conditions is that the development should not lead to any loss of curriculum.   So camsfc will have to show that it can still deliver the same curriculum after the sale has been completed.

Now the only way they could do that without re-investing the proceeds at Buxton Lane would be if they could shoe-horn all the Hibbert Lane activity and the Buxton Lane activity into the existing Buxton Lane building!  Needless to say, there is not the remotest chance of their being able to do that. 


..an educational establishment is NOT just a business but part of the community as a whole, in fact they claim to be exactly that !  Their behaviour however has been completely the opposite and I do think if there were local people who were part of our community on the governing body it would have a different ethos and feel to it, and though they might be still selling the land part of the decision making process on who to sell it to would be whats best for the area.

I think that's a really important point.  It surprises me that there appears to be very little local representation on the camsfc governing body, and in my experience of colleges that's quite unusual. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 06, 2012, 01:54:29 PM
Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 06, 2012, 02:10:31 PM
Truly amazing  :o  So let me get this straight: you guys up there on Planet MIA seriously believe that by talking to people in a tent in Market Street on Saturdays, you are getting an accurate representation of the majority view of the 23,000 residents of Marple.   Really?? 
Dave,my grandchildren have no opinion either way on the supermarket,Like a lot of the 23000 residents in Marple you keep banging on about they cannot speak on such issues.You cannot count on all 23000 having an opinion for reasons too numerous to mention.People who sign the petition have to be 18 years old,so that excludes a few thousand of your magic number. ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 06, 2012, 02:23:41 PM
Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.

The video of the meeting at the school shows the person from the 'yes' campaign getting strictly limited 'respect' from some of the attendees.

Furthermore, many of the statements made by some of the contributants duirng the meeting add up to little more than scaremongering nonsense, where 'opinion' was presented as 'fact', with no real interest in debate.

I found that meeting amusing in many respects. It went on for ages, when actually there was little or nothing of any substance to discuss, other than for the Council to state their policy position - which they did at the start. After that, it was mainly hot air, with people trying to crystal ball gaze as to what the effects of an unknown scale retail of development might be.

Don't get me wrong, I think local discussion and review of any proposals is a critical element - but the amount of vitriol and ill-informed nonsense that is doing the rounds of the community at present is not helpful or constructive. Personally if presented with 'facts' (not saying that MIA are doing this, but these are regular rumours that I hear) that a supermarket the size of Portwood was to be built at Marple, including the knocking down of the swimming baths and potentially resulting in the loss of the 6th form college in the town - I would be against it too and would gladly sign a petition / make my views clear. But I've a pretty good idea that the final scheme won't be like that at all. That said, I'm not sure what it actually will include and so I'm waiting to see the details ('facts' if you will) before making up my mind as to whether I think there is any merit in the proposals.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 06, 2012, 02:29:11 PM
Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that :)

This rings bells with me too, although my totally non-scientific impression, having had various chats with friends, neighbours, people I meet in shops etc, has been that opinion is fairly evenly divided.  But please let's not pretend that this is in any way representative of the population of Marple! 

As for this:
Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.

...that is just ridiculous, and a typical example of the MIA tendency to exaggerate and personalise issues.  When colleges acquire or dispose of major assets (land, buildings etc), these are matters for the Governing Body to determine.  The notion that camsfc is disposing of the Hibbert Lane site because a 'woman with too much power from Stoke dictated it' is absurd.  The reality is that the governors of the college are doing the best they can, in these difficult times, to improve their facilities for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  It's as simple as that! 
This is my personal opinion!nothing to do with MIA.I do not want a woman from Stoke and her out of area governors with too much power dictating what we do get in our town.They did not have to sell to a supermarket.(Social Conscience)?Nah! like I said before selfish! they couldn' care less especially about the people who live around the proposed supermarket site.I feel so sorry for them :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on January 06, 2012, 02:39:05 PM
Dave,my grandchildren have no opinion either way on the supermarket,Like a lot of the 23000 residents in Marple you keep banging on about they cannot speak on such issues.You cannot count on all 23000 having an opinion for reasons too numerous to mention.People who sign the petition have to be 18 years old,so that excludes a few thousand of your magic number. ::)

Do people who sign the petition have to be residents of Marple?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 06, 2012, 02:52:05 PM
Was that a yes or a no Dave ?


Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.
What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.

The video of the meeting at the school shows the person from the 'yes' campaign getting strictly limited 'respect' from some of the attendees.

Furthermore, many of the statements made by some of the contributants duirng the meeting add up to little more than scaremongering nonsense, where 'opinion' was presented as 'fact', with no real interest in debate.

I found that meeting amusing in many respects. It went on for ages, when actually there was little or nothing of any substance to discuss, other than for the Council to state their policy position - which they did at the start. After that, it was mainly hot air, with people trying to crystal ball gaze as to what the effects of an unknown scale retail of development might be.

Don't get me wrong, I think local discussion and review of any proposals is a critical element - but the amount of vitriol and ill-informed nonsense that is doing the rounds of the community at present is not helpful or constructive. Personally if presented with 'facts' (not saying that MIA are doing this, but these are regular rumours that I hear) that a supermarket the size of Portwood was to be built at Marple, including the knocking down of the swimming baths and potentially resulting in the loss of the 6th form college in the town - I would be against it too and would gladly sign a petition / make my views clear. But I've a pretty good idea that the final scheme won't be like that at all. That said, I'm not sure what it actually will include and so I'm waiting to see the details ('facts' if you will) before making up my mind as to whether I think there is any merit in the proposals.

That was a public meeting and I suspect was mainly attended by people living in the immediate vicinity of the two sites.People who are about to have their enviroment changed against their wishes are unlikely to show a man who obviosly cares not a jot, any respect.The people at the meeting are only trying to protect what they have worked hard for,their property,it's value and the area they chose to live in.Would you show respect to someone who is happy to encourage what yours to be taken away?honest answer please?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on January 06, 2012, 02:54:18 PM
Lisa of course MIA have made mistakes we are a group of local residents who feel passionate that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would be a mistake.  We hopefully learn by our mistakes but what must be remembered is that we have MIA members who are sympathetic to the cause and if details were released it could be detrimental to their employment ie a conflict of interests.  The action line is always there for people to contact, the stall is a regular feature in the centre, and this web site serves as a point of contact.
I am no stranger to court  and have represented people in employment law cases where cases of conflict of interests has been a big issue with at times dire consequences for an individual, so MIA respect peoples right to remain in the 'back office'
I am sure when/ if the plans are submitted  MIA will become more transparent and will be looking to increase our numbers.  I did mention at the start of this topic that MIA was formed around my kitchen table and from there we have gained a band of people from all walks of life who bring skills, knowledge and a greater understanding of planning law.
I have also mentioned that MIA has different groups of individuals who work in teams within their own area of particular practice, there are members that even I have not met.
We are not a secret organisation and I fully understand how this may appear but sadly I am also fully aware of how so people can use this to in someway try to bring MIA into disrepute.  It's going to be a long haul and like I have said before there are really only 2 or 3 members of MIA who post on here.  I have continued to post to keep people informed of developments but I am becoming increasingly disappointed in some peoples contributions striving to give MIA a negative press instead of getting of their backside and starting an opposition group if they feel that there is a need.
Please do not continue to frighten MIA members from posting as this is at this moment the only source of information that you will receive that will help everyone keep up to speed with developments .  Please be respectful of our cause. MM



Miss Marple, I think you are seriously underestimating this transparency issue. It's not intended to bring you into disrepute in any way or to scare your members from coming on here.

Rather, it is absolutely intended as constructive criticism. As an organisation that fundraises, you are flirting with illegality if you don't take this on board. Look here for a good starting place for this http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/Codes_and_regulation/Codes/codes-directory (http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/Codes_and_regulation/Codes/codes-directory)

Many of your members may well have conflicts of interest, but if all of them do then surely there'd be serious concerns about what you're doing. A more paranoid person than I could suspect that you have senior co-op executives working with you, as an example. Transparency would allay these fears. A donor at very, very  least should expect a written audit trail in communications and evidence of where the money was being spent.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 06, 2012, 03:02:30 PM
Off-topic post removed.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 06, 2012, 03:19:10 PM
That was a public meeting and I suspect was mainly attended by people living in the immediate vicinity of the two sites.People who are about to have their enviroment changed against their wishes are unlikely to show a man who obviosly cares not a jot, any respect.The people at the meeting are only trying to protect what they have worked hard for,their property,it's value and the area they chose to live in.Would you show respect to someone who is happy to encourage what yours to be taken away?honest answer please?

I would show respect for anyone's views, otherwise where would that leave us?

Note: This post has been reinstated 8/1/12. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2012, 04:06:16 PM
Do people who sign the petition have to be residents of Marple?

No, and we have it on good authority (no less than Miss M herself, as far as I can recall) that many signatories come from  outside the area. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 04:12:49 PM
Removed - could have been done by PM.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2012, 04:24:18 PM
They did not have to sell to a supermarket.

As far as I know, if they don't sell to a supermarket, the college can only expect to receive about £4 million for the site, and this will mean that the entire scheme will collapse. I see from another post that you have grandchildren, Mrs O.  Are you interested in ensuring that they have decent facilities for their sixth-form education?  Or don't you care?  

(Social Conscience)?Nah! like I said before selfish!

I'm puzzled by this repeated accusation of selfishness.  There is nothing remotely selfish about serving as a school or college governor.   People who serve as college governors do so out of public-spiritedness.  They give up their time to deal with mountains of tedious bureaucracy, attend long boring meetings, and they don't get paid a penny for it.  Sometimes I wonder why any of them do it.  And then someone comes on this forum and accuses them of being selfish, of all things.   ::)

Section of post removed.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on January 06, 2012, 04:44:16 PM
Do people who sign the petition have to be residents of Marple?

No, and we have it on good authority (no less than Miss M herself, as far as I can recall) that many signatories come from  outside the area. 

Thats what I thought.

In this case, could someone explain to me how the 7578 signatories can represent 39.28% of the adult population of Marple, as claimed in MIA's Petition & Survey Interim Results. As there is no breakdown of the figures, this is rather misleading.

It seems the equivalent of ASDA surveying their 143,000 employees and then claiming that the results represent that 621% of the population of Marple want a new supermarket.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 06, 2012, 04:56:49 PM
Hopefully my grandchildren will follow the same education route as their father.College,then university,Of course I would like the best facilities for them if they were to attend CAMSFC but not at the expense of Marple as we know it.There are as you know other colleges.As for my accusation,I stand by it!They are looking after their own interests with no conscience to a lot of the Marple residents feelings.The governors and a lot of the students leave Marple to go to their homes totally unaffected.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 05:07:40 PM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent by introducing you to MIA members who are far more knowledgeable than myself on a range of issues you raise on this thread and you decline that invitation.  what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on January 06, 2012, 05:32:51 PM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent by introducing you to MIA members who are far more knowledgeable than myself on a range of issues you raise on this thread and you decline that invitation.  what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Here's that word of mouth culture again
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 05:41:14 PM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent by introducing you to MIA members who are far more knowledgeable than myself on a range of issues you raise on this thread and you decline that invitation.  what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Here's that word of mouth culture again
Oh no it isn't because it's your lucky day ! You may have missed it but you had an invite too, along with the other moderator of the YES face book page Tina    So come on HWL accept the invitation and make my day.   I find it strange that you three have to have an invitation because when the stall is in MARPLE we have lots of people coming intelligence gathering .  Why have you 3 never made yourselves known
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 06, 2012, 05:56:33 PM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent
When did I ask you to be more transparent?

what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Because I don't need to hear any more misinformation, such as: 
I couldn't help overhearing what one MIA person wielding a petition was saying about the college's plans - including all that stuff about the plan to use the proceeds of Hibbert Lane to develop Buxton Lane being a 'smokescreen' for the real plan, which was to move out of Marple altogether and build a new college on Jacksons Lane. And of course, people appeared to believe every word of it.........   ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 06:07:46 PM
We have come a long way since then   I really and seriously would like you to come and debate the issue with MIA members who will have the information you need ! Who. Knows you may just find out that things are not as they appear!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on January 06, 2012, 06:27:26 PM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent by introducing you to MIA members who are far more knowledgeable than myself on a range of issues you raise on this thread and you decline that invitation.  what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Here's that word of mouth culture again
Oh no it isn't because it's your lucky day ! You may have missed it but you had an invite too, along with the other moderator of the YES face book page Tina    So come on HWL accept the invitation and make my day.   I find it strange that you three have to have an invitation because when the stall is in MARPLE we have lots of people coming intelligence gathering .  Why have you 3 never made yourselves known

It's hardly as if Tina and I have refused ever to attend any of your events is it?

I'll tell you what, I'll spend some time on your stall if I get satisfactory answers to my questions on the constitution of MIA and key roles (with names and contact details) within it, questions which are still being ignored. Quid pro quo. How does that sound?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 06:40:33 PM
Post removed. Could have been done by PM.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 06, 2012, 06:41:32 PM
How many signatures are there so far on the petition against the proposed supermarket?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 06:55:37 PM
How many signatures are there so far on the petition against the proposed supermarket?
Hi Admin has put some stats on Latest information on the MIA web site which may answer your question
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on January 06, 2012, 07:13:53 PM
Dave... re reinvestment and continuation of curriculum.. Marple and CHEADLE 6th form college... I'm sure they can continue with the courses by investing the money in the other campus?

Also I asked for transparency initially, you just backed it up :D

Miss Marple... MIA are bringing themselves into disrepute by the representation on here and the rumours as already discussed.  Your main arguments on this forum at this moment in time, bar Dave, are against people who are on the fence!!!!  doesn't that tell you something?
Why on Earth can you be less transparent until the plans come out?  I'm sorry but there is NO reason someone cant stick up there hand and say "hi its me, i take full responsibility for everything that MIA says." 
I'm not asking for every single person but if you have representative in specific roles/titles then THEY should stand up and be counted
They're not doing, so.....
As I have been commenting regularly and generally arguing with the way you are running the campaign then I guess I'm in the list of those you are disappointed in..well tough get used to it.. i will always question and debate where i believe what you are doing is wrong! The negative "press" you claim we, on all sides of the fence,  are giving you is currently very well earned.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 06, 2012, 07:38:27 PM
Where's my argument with people on the fence?  I want  opposition because if you know anything about politics (with a small p) you will know that MIA can only be as good as their opposition.
Lisa I have spent 35 years of my working life fighting  for democracy and justice so I take great exception at your comments.  Everyone is entitled to their views and I for one welcome that we live in a country where we can without fear voice our views !
I do think that you may take things a little too seriously and fail to recognise that I am a so called foot soldier within MIA I am not the brains nor have the experience to believe that I have all the answers   What I do although have knowledge in is the strong opposition to a supermarket on Hibbert Lane from people who it will effect directly.
Once again be mindful and respectful to the people on this site who do not contribute to the topic but follow with intrest this development.  I have on many occasions manned the MIA action line and I can assure you we have requests from our elderly community who want to sign the Petition but can not get to the stall.
Sadly because we do not have the man power or the resources to go and physically take a petition to then their views are sadly not represented.
If nothing else I am a realist and understand that many in our community do not have access to the Internet or are unable to visit the stall  and that troubles me greatly because those people have a right to sign a petition but can not due to age or disability.
So be mindful what you post and I would think that as a moderator you would  have to now  take more responsibility for your statements. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 06, 2012, 08:09:24 PM
 7,578 signature so far.  Can someone from the yes campaign provide figures from a petition, or from any public consultation, that they have organised?  It seems that the game afoot is to go for the 'No' campaign, rather than actually organising a 'Yes' campaign.  Asda would be proud of you  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sleepless on January 06, 2012, 08:37:27 PM
Perhaps Asda is one of the "shadowy" figures behind the Yes Campaign?

There would also have been fewer rumours about the College's plans if the Principal or any of the governors had met with the No Campaign, as frequently requested, and discussed the matter with the local community. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sleepless on January 06, 2012, 09:33:03 PM
I have friends who live outside Marple who have signed the petiiton against the supermarket.  They have done so because they visit Marple frequently to use our local shops and enjoy the atmosphere in our town centre, and would like it to stay that way. They will not be visiting or spending money in our local economy if these shops disappear because a supermarket has taken their business.  They will not travel here to use a supermarket.

Also, if anyone has genuine concerns about how donations to the No Campaign are being used they can contact the Inland Revneue or the police rather than just making allegations on this site.

At the end of the day, whoever the members of MIA are, you either agree with their fundamental campaign - to stop a supermarket being built on Hibbert Lane - or not. Simples!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on January 06, 2012, 10:43:20 PM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent by introducing you to MIA members who are far more knowledgeable than myself on a range of issues you raise on this thread and you decline that invitation.  what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Here's that word of mouth culture again
Oh no it isn't because it's your lucky day ! You may have missed it but you had an invite too, along with the other moderator of the YES face book page Tina    So come on HWL accept the invitation and make my day.   I find it strange that you three have to have an invitation because when the stall is in MARPLE we have lots of people coming intelligence gathering .  Why have you 3 never made yourselves known

can I just jump in here, no doubt my comment will be removed but why are my post's removed everytime for making a responce to something but miss marple can continuously keep bringing me up, I have already said I decline your offer to meet at your stall, I have walked past many times and been sneered at and don't wish to stand there being dictated to. I personally would like a supermarket, I have never hidden the fact and stood up very early on well before the yes campaign was set up by somebody else, and said I would like one as what we have in Marple is not good enough. Its not that I am uncaring towards the residents who surround the area, I have friends who live on all sides of the area of the college, so fully understand their concerns but to be real in the real world buildings get built/knocked down all over the country. at some point someone has been against such progress but it happens its called the future! Now please miss marple concentrate on your campaign, maybe stop being so personal and read carefully the questions what people are asking you.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on January 07, 2012, 12:04:07 AM
Lisa of course MIA have made mistakes we are a group of local residents who feel passionate that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would be a mistake.  We hopefully learn by our mistakes but what must be remembered is that we have MIA members who are sympathetic to the cause and if details were released it could be detrimental to their employment ie a conflict of interests.  The action line is always there for people to contact, the stall is a regular feature in the centre, and this web site serves as a point of contact.
I am no stranger to court  and have represented people in employment law cases where cases of conflict of interests has been a big issue with at times dire consequences for an individual, so MIA respect peoples right to remain in the 'back office'
I am sure when/ if the plans are submitted  MIA will become more transparent and will be looking to increase our numbers.  I did mention at the start of this topic that MIA was formed around my kitchen table and from there we have gained a band of people from all walks of life who bring skills, knowledge and a greater understanding of planning law.
I have also mentioned that MIA has different groups of individuals who work in teams within their own area of particular practice, there are members that even I have not met.
We are not a secret organisation and I fully understand how this may appear but sadly I am also fully aware of how so people can use this to in someway try to bring MIA into disrepute.  It's going to be a long haul and like I have said before there are really only 2 or 3 members of MIA who post on here.  I have continued to post to keep people informed of developments but I am becoming increasingly disappointed in some peoples contributions striving to give MIA a negative press instead of getting of their backside and starting an opposition group if they feel that there is a need.
Please do not continue to frighten MIA members from posting as this is at this moment the only source of information that you will receive that will help everyone keep up to speed with developments .  Please be respectful of our cause. MM




I might not want to admit it, but I will  ..... I actually agree with all that  Miss M has posted  .... regardless of my own feelings on the supermarket proposal in Marple
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on January 07, 2012, 12:05:58 AM
Dave you disappoint me!  Here's me trying to accommodate your request to be more transparent by introducing you to MIA members who are far more knowledgeable than myself on a range of issues you raise on this thread and you decline that invitation.  what is your reason for  refusing I am seriously interested to know !
Here's that word of mouth culture again
Oh no it isn't because it's your lucky day ! You may have missed it but you had an invite too, along with the other moderator of the YES face book page Tina    So come on HWL accept the invitation and make my day.   I find it strange that you three have to have an invitation because when the stall is in MARPLE we have lots of people coming intelligence gathering .  Why have you 3 never made yourselves known
can I just jump in here, no doubt my comment will be removed but why are my post's removed everytime for making a responce to something but miss marple can continuously keep bringing me up, I have already said I decline your offer to meet at your stall, I have walked past many times and been sneered at and don't wish to stand there being dictated to. I personally would like a supermarket, I have never hidden the fact and stood up very early on well before the yes campaign was set up by somebody else, and said I would like one as what we have in Marple is not good enough. Its not that I am uncaring towards the residents who surround the area, I have friends who live on all sides of the area of the college, so fully understand their concerns but to be real in the real world buildings get built/knocked down all over the country. at some point someone has been against such progress but it happens its called the future! Now please miss marple concentrate on your campaign, maybe stop being so personal and read carefully the questions what people are asking you.


I walked past in my Asda uniform and was asked to sign the petition  :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 07, 2012, 12:14:21 AM
All. There has been a huge amount of activity on this thread and some excellent points made. However, there are also some posts which are not quite so relevant so it has been locked for a short time whilst I wade through it and do a little judicious pruning.

Your posts will be kept so if I remove one and you want it back and have good reasons why, then I'm happy to reinstate it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Howard on January 07, 2012, 12:44:50 AM
OK - the topic is unlocked again. A few points:

Debate is good. I'm not trying to censor anyone but have done some tidying up.

Please consider:
1) Do we really need posts that quote huge swathes of previous text with one line additions of "well said" or "I agree with you"? We KNOW that whatever is written here, someone will agree or disagree with it. Unless what you have to say contributes to the debate PLEASE don't feel you have to add something to the thread.

2) If you do have something to say to one other person, you don't have to clutter up the thread with it. Use the private message system (click on "my messages" in the menu bar) instead.

There are some excellent points on both sides so please let's keep it civil (well done - it has been so far) and relevant (needs work!).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 07, 2012, 09:40:54 AM
Dave... re reinvestment and continuation of curriculum.. Marple and CHEADLE 6th form college... I'm sure they can continue with the courses by investing the money in the other campus?

I've never dealt with the YPLA, because it only appeared after I retired three years ago (and it's going to disappear again quite soon - quangos are like mushrooms, aren't they!).  However, from my experience of dealing with its predecessors (LSC, FEFC), if Marple students had to travel to Cheadle, as a result of the disposal of Hibbert Lane, the YPLA would not accept that. 

I have friends who live outside Marple who have signed the petiiton against the supermarket.  They have done so because they visit Marple frequently to use our local shops and enjoy the atmosphere in our town centre, and would like it to stay that way. They will not be visiting or spending money in our local economy if these shops disappear because a supermarket has taken their business.  They will not travel here to use a supermarket.

Personally I don't buy this argument at all.  We all go to Hazel Grove, Bredbury, even Whaley Bridge and Glossop, to do our supermarket shopping.  So why wouldn't people come here to do likewise?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 07, 2012, 12:19:54 PM
I really and seriously would like you to come and debate the issue with MIA members who will have the information you need !

Miss M, if MIA has any further relevant information, on top of what is already in the public domain, then it would be helpful if you could publish it on here or on your website. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 07, 2012, 12:43:49 PM
Irrelevant reply removed. Please stick to topics that contribute something to the debate.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on January 07, 2012, 01:09:47 PM
Howard did say "Please consider "

well I have considered it, and Im not changing how I reply to someone, I also dont see the problem with myself or others quoting posts either, it makes it clear who the replies are aimed at .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sleepless on January 09, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Dave, my friends wouldn't use a large supermarket in Marple because they already have a good choice of supermarkets elsewhere - you mention four locations yourself.  They also believe that the traffic congestion that would build up in Marple would keep them out of the town.  And they would not visit it on a point of principal because of the damage it would do to the current town centre - believe it or not there are some people out here prepared to stick to our principals.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on January 09, 2012, 03:20:47 PM
It could be argued that those principles will be the ones what closes the local shops down and not the supermarket? I am for a supermarket and will use it, but I will also continue to use the local shops. The only difference in my shopping habbits will be that I don't rely on a home delivery or a bus to take me out of Marple to go shopping.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 09, 2012, 03:44:37 PM
It could be argued that those principles will be the ones what closes the local shops down and not the supermarket? I am for a supermarket and will use it, but I will also continue to use the local shops. The only difference in my shopping habbits will be that I don't rely on a home delivery or a bus to take me out of Marple to go shopping.

Good point .if Marple is such a good place to shop why do people go hazel grove bredbury glossop       etc .ithink people will use it but not rely on it .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 09, 2012, 06:17:49 PM
Dave, my friends wouldn't use a large supermarket in Marple because they already have a good choice of supermarkets elsewhere - you mention four locations yourself.  They also believe that the traffic congestion that would build up in Marple would keep them out of the town.  And they would not visit it on a point of principal because of the damage it would do to the current town centre - believe it or not there are some people out here prepared to stick to our principals.

It's one thing us locals opposing the plan for a supermarket on Hibbert Lane - we are all entitled to our opinions, and it's entirely understandable that those living nearest the site should be against it.    But for people from outside Marple, whose kids are educated at other schools and colleges, to try and stop our kids from having better educational facilities, is a bit of a cheek, don't you think? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 09, 2012, 07:19:14 PM
Concerns regarding people signing from outside the area.  To my knowledge there are very few people from outside the area who have signed the paper petition.   The vast amount who have signed are from around both sites and living on main roads and roads which may possibly become  ' Rat Runs'   I am not sure where the idea that large amounts of people have signed from out of area.  
What MIA are mindful of is people who do not have access to Internet or are unable to get to the stall to vote.  MIA are looking at ways to allow people who may want to sign but are unable to do so by looking at door to door leaflet  drops with a tear off petition slip or something similar.  
We have obtained nearly 8,000 signatures and that's really without trying all we did to obtain that amount was to stand in Market St every Sat, once the planning application is submitted MIA anticipate a lot more signatures, will keep you posted
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 09, 2012, 07:46:49 PM
To my knowledge there are very few people from outside the area who have signed the paper petition.... I am not sure where the idea that large amounts of people have signed from out of area.  

Er, here, perhaps?   ;)

What's been a real eye opener for me whilst collecting signatures in Marple is the amount of elderly people who make full use of their bus passes and come to Marple from Ashton, Denton, Glossop, Hyde Mossley, New Mills and countless other places
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 09, 2012, 07:56:46 PM
The vast amount who have signed are from around both sites and living on main roads and roads which may possibly become  ' Rat Runs'  

We have obtained nearly 8,000 signatures

Those two statements clearly don't add up...

Whilst I fully understand that people worried about traffic and who live on main roads might want to object, these same people would surely also object to an alternative supermarket site in Marple - something that I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) that MIA don't object to, at least in principle. So what happens if another site, for instance the PO sorting office site, comes forward as a supermarket site - whats the position then?

I'm also slightly surprised that there are all these people travelling into Marple from outside to do their shopping. Where are they coming from and what are they buying that they can't get in most other typical small local centres (apart from an Archer's Pie of course, mmm!). Don't get me wrong, Marple Town Centre is great (speaking as a Marple resident) but I can't imagine travelling a great distance to shop there if I didn't live in the immediate catchment.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 09, 2012, 09:10:20 PM
Dave, my friends wouldn't use a large supermarket in Marple because they already have a good choice of supermarkets elsewhere - you mention four locations yourself.  They also believe that the traffic congestion that would build up in Marple would keep them out of the town.  And they would not visit it on a point of principal because of the damage it would do to the current town centre - believe it or not there are some people out here prepared to stick to our principals.

It's one thing us locals opposing the plan for a supermarket on Hibbert Lane - we are all entitled to our opinions, and it's entirely understandable that those living nearest the site should be against it.    But for people from outside Marple, whose kids are educated at other schools and colleges, to try and stop our kids from having better educational facilities, is a bit of a cheek, don't you think? 

Dave, you continually try to portray this as 'our kids from having better educational facilities' vs naysayers who oppose the supermarket and therefore practically oppose education.  Call me old fashioned but I think our taxes should pay for educational facilities, rather than relying on flogging off land to supermarkets.  I'd be interested to know if you, or anyone else, was campaigning for improvements to CAMSFC before the supermarket furore?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 09, 2012, 09:18:50 PM
Concerns regarding people signing from outside the area.  To my knowledge there are very few people from outside the area who have signed the paper petition.   The vast amount who have signed are from around both sites and living on main roads and roads which may possibly become  ' Rat Runs'   I am not sure where the idea that large amounts of people have signed from out of area.  
What MIA are mindful of is people who do not have access to Internet or are unable to get to the stall to vote.  MIA are looking at ways to allow people who may want to sign but are unable to do so by looking at door to door leaflet  drops with a tear off petition slip or something similar.  
We have obtained nearly 8,000 signatures and that's really without trying all we did to obtain that amount was to stand in Market St every Sat, once the planning application is submitted MIA anticipate a lot more signatures, will keep you posted

you have been quoted on this forums as saying alot of people have signed from outside .the area .so have they or not i  suggest when people sign you ask them to say were they are from .and put down as such .you say the ridge are not giving you the full facts i suggest you are not giving us the full facts .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 09, 2012, 10:16:26 PM
Hi amazon everyone who signs the petition puts their address down so it is not rocket science to identify where people live who are signing.

Hi Dave the quote you provided does not mention that these people signed but I am sure you will find another quote to prove me wrong.

Hi Belly when MIA was formed there was at that time no suggestion that an alternative site had been identified.  MIA was formed to oppose a supermarket being built on education land.  MARPLE is a growing town with housing developments being built all the time so it is my belief that we should not loose any education facility because once it's gone there is no turning back.

Your question about why people come to MARPLE to shop at first surprised me.  I soon found out by speaking to people that shopped out of area was that since a supermarket had moved into their area most of their small independent traders had gone so they liked the small town shop experience.

I know people think that I am joking when I invite them to spend time on the Sat MIA stall but I am not.  I think that anyone doubting what I post would benefit from spending time there. It's a real eye opener hearing from people who's areas have suffered due to large supermarkets coming into their areas.  I do hope that people will spend sometime on the stall and speak first hand to these people then you will have a greater insight to the problems supermarkets bring with them
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on January 10, 2012, 08:00:37 AM
Don't underestimate the draw of the canal, parks and views which bring people in from Manchester and other nearby areas. Having worked in Manchester for many years I have met many, many people who visit Marple principally to enjoy these wonderful assets of ours.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 10, 2012, 09:59:04 AM
Call me old fashioned but I think our taxes should pay for educational facilities, rather than relying on flogging off land to supermarkets. 

Better not let Miss M see that, or she'll call you an armchair socialist.   ;)

But seriously, I couldn't agree more.  But as you may have noticed, these are hard times, and the government has now admitted that its recovery plan is not working and we are not going to see better times for several years.     :'(

So if we want our kids to have anything better,  we've got to get off our backsides and provide it ourselves (maybe that's what the Big Society means?       ;D  ).  So we are very fortunate that our college governors appear to have found an imaginative and resourceful way of funding much-needed improvements. 

MARPLE is a growing town with housing developments being built all the time so it is my belief that we should not loose any education facility because once it's gone there is no turning back.


In referring to 'education facility', it's important to distinguish between schools and 6th form colleges.  If Miss M means that we might need to accommodate future growth at 6th form level, then we need to note that the college has far more land than it needs, or will ever need in the foreseeable future.  The two camsfc campuses were originally built as schools.  Schools need playing fields - colleges do not.  On top of that, the college Estates Committee minutes of June 2010 confirm that the Hibbert Lane building is too big for the curriculum delivered.  Schools and colleges operate under tight financial constraints; they do not have the funding to run unused buildings just in case student numbers may possibly grow at some point in the distant future.  If there is future growth, they will build to accommodate it, and there should be sufficient space around the Buxton Lane building to do that.

On the other hand, if Miss M is referring to school-level 'education facilities', then the sale of Hibbert Lane is irrelevant.  The land belongs to the college, which is independent of the local authority.   If the council ever wanted it for a school, they would have to buy it from the college (if the college was prepared to sell).  If it was a primary school they wanted to build, they would have to knock the existing building down and replace it with a new one.  None of this is ever going to happen: in the unlikely event that we needed a new primary school the council would use a site that it already owned, so that we council taxpayers don't have to pay for it. 

As for needing to build a new secondary school, forget it - there is more than enough space for expansion on the Marple Hall campus. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 10, 2012, 11:42:59 AM
Hi amazon everyone who signs the petition puts their address down so it is not rocket science to identify where people live who are signing.

Hi Dave the quote you provided does not mention that these people signed but I am sure you will find another quote to prove me wrong.

Hi Belly when MIA was formed there was at that time no suggestion that an alternative site had been identified.  MIA was formed to oppose a supermarket being built on education land.  MARPLE is a growing town with housing developments being built all the time so it is my belief that we should not loose any education facility because once it's gone there is no turning back.

Your question about why people come to MARPLE to shop at first surprised me.  I soon found out by speaking to people that shopped out of area was that since a supermarket had moved into their area most of their small independent traders had gone so they liked the small town shop experience.

I know people think that I am joking when I invite them to spend time on the Sat MIA stall but I am not.  I think that anyone doubting what I post would benefit from spending time there. It's a real eye opener hearing from people who's areas have suffered due to large supermarkets coming into their areas.  I do hope that people will spend sometime on the stall and speak first hand to these people then you will have a greater insight to the problems supermarkets bring with them
.                 Ok thanks for that .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sleepless on January 10, 2012, 12:17:14 PM
Hi Dave, you make valid points and are certainly right about the hard times we are all currently facing, but there is a bigger picture here and I think we need to look hard at the long term consequences of some of the, albeit difficult, decisions we take now.  I would prefer it if our younger generation, on leaving college, had a choice of rewarding and progressive careers in a variety of thriving and developing SMEs, rather have to stack shelves and drive delivery vans for the supermarket chains which have put those same SMEs out of business.  Should we not instead be insisting that our politicians find more “imaginative and resourceful” solutions to educational funding than selling out our communities and small businesses to supermarkets, and that they listen to taxpayers rather than the lobbyists?  Perhaps they could tackle the tax avoidance loopholes exploited by large corporations (see Vodafone for the latest example) and wealthy individuals (capital gains tax and stamp duty on second homes), or reform our banking and finance systems?  We will be living a long time with the outcomes of decisions we make now, and our children will have to deal with the consequences.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 10, 2012, 01:31:30 PM
We will be living a long time with the outcomes of decisions we make now, and our children will have to deal with the consequences.

Amen - that's one of the most thoughtful and important things anyone has written in all 1,253 posts on this thread!  
    
That said, although I go along with much of what sleepless writes, I fear that if politicians 'listened to taxpayers' the main thing they would hear is that we want to pay less tax.........   :-\  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on January 10, 2012, 02:32:15 PM
I wonder how many people travel from other areas into Marple with the sole purpose of shopping at the Co-op? The Co-op that is ridiculously overpriced compared to other supermarkets and where you are lucky to see the shelves actually stocked with what you require.  We have lived in Marple for 11 years and have never done our "weekly shop" at the Co-op - we travel over to Morrisons at Bredbury. If ASDA or TESCO or Sainsbury's were to open a larger store in Marple we would almost certainly shop in the town, thereby saving all those car miles each year.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 10, 2012, 08:27:02 PM
Hi Bowden Guy I hope you don't take offence but if you wanted to be near a supermarket why move to Marple? Just a thought because I like living in MARPLE because there isn't a large e supermarket.  I was born here so did not really choose where I lived but you did I am just a little confused that's all
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on January 10, 2012, 10:24:39 PM
I wonder how many people travel from other areas into Marple with the sole purpose of shopping at the Co-op? The Co-op that is ridiculously overpriced compared to other supermarkets and where you are lucky to see the shelves actually stocked with what you require.  We have lived in Marple for 11 years and have never done our "weekly shop" at the Co-op - we travel over to Morrisons at Bredbury. If ASDA or TESCO or Sainsbury's were to open a larger store in Marple we would almost certainly shop in the town, thereby saving all those car miles each year.



I think Bowden guy makes a good point. I have lived in Marple since early childhood and also have never done more than 'top up' shopping at the Co-op because of the cost, also found staff rude in the past (they do seem better now though). I think there would be alot of people who would use a store and whether this would outweigh traffic coming in would be interesting to look into/estimate.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 11, 2012, 09:29:52 AM
Hi Bowden Guy I hope you don't take offence but if you wanted to be near a supermarket why move to Marple? Just a thought because I like living in MARPLE because there isn't a large e supermarket. 

Surprising though it may seem, Miss M, most of us are not preoccupied with supermarkets.  They are not a major factor in determining where we choose to live.  I too like living in Marple, but the reasons for that have nothing whatsoever to do with whether we have a large supermarket or not.   And by the way, it's me that does most of the food shopping in the Dave household.  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on January 11, 2012, 10:03:38 PM
Don't underestimate the draw of the canal, parks and views which bring people in from Manchester and other nearby areas. Having worked in Manchester for many years I have met many, many people who visit Marple principally to enjoy these wonderful assets of ours.
On this point we agree, I work with many from around the Stockport area and beyond who regularly visit the Marple area for the above.
Would they be put off by the likely increase in Traffic a large Supermarket would bring at weekends. ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 11, 2012, 10:30:31 PM
Don't underestimate the draw of the canal, parks and views which bring people in from Manchester and other nearby areas. Having worked in Manchester for many years I have met many, many people who visit Marple principally to enjoy these wonderful assets of ours.
On this point we agree, I work with many from around the Stockport area and beyond who regularly visit the Marple area for the above.
Would they be put off by the likely increase in Traffic a large Supermarket would bring at weekends. ;D

Why would there be a large increase in traffic in Marple at the weekends because of a new supermarket sized to meet the local (currently supermarketless) Marple catchment? If you take what Bowden Guy suggests then it is quite possible that a large number of Marple folk would, in future, 'stay local' and shop in the new local supermarket in Marple 'town centre' rather than driving out of the town to a supermarket in say Bredbury, Glossop, Hazel Grove or Stockport.

Speaking personally, provision of a new supermarket in Marple would probably remove my current Saturday mornng trip to Sainsburys or Tesco along Stockport Road - so providing an opportunity for a visitor to the town to make use of the roadspace I am currently taking up!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on January 11, 2012, 11:32:03 PM
Don't underestimate the draw of the canal, parks and views which bring people in from Manchester and other nearby areas. Having worked in Manchester for many years I have met many, many people who visit Marple principally to enjoy these wonderful assets of ours.
On this point we agree, I work with many from around the Stockport area and beyond who regularly visit the Marple area for the above.
Would they be put off by the likely increase in Traffic a large Supermarket would bring at weekends. ;D

Why would there be a large increase in traffic in Marple at the weekends because of a new supermarket sized to meet the local (currently supermarketless) Marple catchment? If you take what Bowden Guy suggests then it is quite possible that a large number of Marple folk would, in future, 'stay local' and shop in the new local supermarket in Marple 'town centre' rather than driving out of the town to a supermarket in say Bredbury, Glossop, Hazel Grove or Stockport.

Speaking personally, provision of a new supermarket in Marple would probably remove my current Saturday mornng trip to Sainsburys or Tesco along Stockport Road - so providing an opportunity for a visitor to the town to make use of the roadspace I am currently taking up!

How do you know the Supermarket is going to be sized to just suit the Marple Catchment Area?
And as you say most people drive away from Marple to do their shopping to Bredbury, Glossop, Hazel Grove or Stockport. For example some at present somebody who lives in the Rose Hill Area and shops in Stockport
would instead of going away from Marple would instead drive through Marple to get to Hibbert Lane. Also someone who lives in Marple Bridge and at present shops in Glossop would change the journey to travel through the centre of Marple instead of away from etc etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 12, 2012, 08:04:12 AM
Don't underestimate the draw of the canal, parks and views which bring people in from Manchester and other nearby areas. Having worked in Manchester for many years I have met many, many people who visit Marple principally to enjoy these wonderful assets of ours.
On this point we agree, I work with many from around the Stockport area and beyond who regularly visit the Marple area for the above.
Would they be put off by the likely increase in Traffic a large Supermarket would bring at weekends. ;D

Why would there be a large increase in traffic in Marple at the weekends because of a new supermarket sized to meet the local (currently supermarketless) Marple catchment? If you take what Bowden Guy suggests then it is quite possible that a large number of Marple folk would, in future, 'stay local' and shop in the new local supermarket in Marple 'town centre' rather than driving out of the town to a supermarket in say Bredbury, Glossop, Hazel Grove or Stockport.

Speaking personally, provision of a new supermarket in Marple would probably remove my current Saturday mornng trip to Sainsburys or Tesco along Stockport Road - so providing an opportunity for a visitor to the town to make use of the roadspace I am currently taking up!

How do you know the Supermarket is going to be sized to just suit the Marple Catchment Area?
And as you say most people drive away from Marple to do their shopping to Bredbury, Glossop, Hazel Grove or Stockport. For example some at present somebody who lives in the Rose Hill Area and shops in Stockport
would instead of going away from Marple would instead drive through Marple to get to Hibbert Lane. Also someone who lives in Marple Bridge and at present shops in Glossop would change the journey to travel through the centre of Marple instead of away from etc etc.

How do you know it won't? Thats the point, no one knows and yet lots of terrifying pronouncements are being made on the impact of the store. Logically (at least!) why would it be sized much larger, given that Marple is circled by other supermarkets and is notoriously difficult to access by car. I can't see any reason why people would drive into Marple from outside the toen to use a supermarket here, when there are already lots of other more easily accessible alternatives. Given that Marple's population is 25,000+ thats a lot of potential users to a new store, where currently there is little local alternative.

Your arguments re: routeing appears based on a negative perception - all the examples you give are possible, as are the exact opposite (i.e. someone from Marple Bridge who currently shops in Tesco's would then not travel down stockport road, someone who lives in Hawk Green and shops in Bredbury could swap to the local alternative). Trying to unravel that, that way madness lies.... the point I was trying to make is that 100's of trips in Marple will not suddenly appear 'as new' as a result of the supermarket. Studies show that new supermarkets in fact capture diversion trips (nearby and popped in), pass-by trips (passing by and popped in), transfer trips (swapped from a different store), etc. Very little of the traffic is stimulated by the presence of the supermarket itself - i.e. brand new retail trips.

Who knows, all these trips secured within Marple might actually be beneifical to some of the local shops. Again speaking personally, I could see myself using Marple town centre more if I could combine a specialist shop with a supermarket shop, but then perhaps I go against the norm in that respect.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 12, 2012, 12:49:40 PM
Who knows, all these trips secured within Marple might actually be beneifical to some of the local shops. Again speaking personally, I could see myself using Marple town centre more if I could combine a specialist shop with a supermarket shop,

I went shopping in Stockport this morning.  As usual, I parked at Sainsbury's (but you can also do this at Asda, of course), went in and picked up a few fruit and veg and a loaf to get my £1 refunded, and then strolled off to Comet, Argos, Marks and Sparks and the market to do the rest of my shopping.  

That's what we can expect when Asda comes to Marple - a proportion of Asda shoppers will use the opportunity to visit other local shops while they are here.  This increased footfall should provide a major boost to most local businesses.  Of course, there will be winners and losers.  The chief losers will be the Co-op, Iceland, Boots and Superdrug.  But they are big national chains who we don't need to shed many tears for, do we!    

On the other hand, the winners will outnumber those, and they will also be the small local businesses.  In Market Street I'm thinking of the hairdressers, the two jewellers, the picture framer, Alan's Paints, Harmony Decor, Crafty Ladies, Sew In, Helen Winterson, Bare Necessities, the opticians, the charity shops, Paul Howard, also Harrods car spares, and the tanning salon and the chippy in Derby Way - all the many businesses where Asda won't directly compete.  Why some of these are displaying a 'No' poster mystifies me!   ::)

The other likely effect should be a shift in Marple's 'centre of gravity' away from the Co-op/Hollins area, and towards the south (Church Lane) end of Market Street, because it will be only a short walk from the Asda car park.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 19, 2012, 08:03:21 PM
How bizarre !  I walked into Marple on Sat got all my shopping got the  bus home,  had an on line delivery of 10 Jars of Carte Noire which were on offer at Tesco for £4.00 for 200g  jar.   No petrol used, boosted the local economy and saved £2.68 on each jar of coffee  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 19, 2012, 08:33:24 PM
How bizarre !  I walked into Marple on Sat got all my shopping got the  bus home,  had an on line delivery of 10 Jars of Carte Noire which were on offer at Tesco for £4.00 for 200g  jar.   No petrol used, boosted the local economy and saved £2.68 on each jar of coffee  ;)
[/quote

But you didn't shop local .you shopped at tesco online .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 19, 2012, 09:15:12 PM
How bizarre !  I walked into Marple on Sat got all my shopping got the  bus home,  had an on line delivery of 10 Jars of Carte Noire which were on offer at Tesco for £4.00 for 200g  jar.   No petrol used, boosted the local economy and saved £2.68 on each jar of coffee  ;)
[/quote

But you didn't shop local .you shopped at tesco online .
No ! Only 10 jars of coffee on the home delivery saving well over £25.00  So saved petrol, planet and didn't add to the traffic congestion !  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on January 19, 2012, 09:58:46 PM
Here's an article which summarises one reason why I don't want a big supermarket in Marple.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/pays-tesco-ceo-wages-we-do (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/pays-tesco-ceo-wages-we-do#start-of-comments)

For Tesco substitute Asda, Sainsburys, or Morrisons. But not the Co-op, because a) they don't exploit their suppliers and b) they pass on their profit to customers.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rsh on January 20, 2012, 02:10:45 AM
Given the number of Tesco and Sainsbury's delivery vans I see around lately, a lot of people are ordering coffee. Or rather they're staying inside and doing all their shopping online, potentially ignoring Marple itself. Having an affordable and well-stocked supermarket within a minute's walking distance would make our local centre so much more useful to so many more residents. Rather than automatically driving to Stockport or out-of-town supermarkets, getting the train into Manchester or shopping online, more people would stay local, get out of their cars and perhaps realise what the place on their doorstep has to offer.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 20, 2012, 09:30:48 AM
The Co-op may not exploit their suppliers, but they certainly exploit their customers, when you compare their prices with those at any proper supermarket. 

And re this:
Here's an article which summarises one reason why I don't want a big supermarket in Marple.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/pays-tesco-ceo-wages-we-do (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/pays-tesco-ceo-wages-we-do#start-of-comments)

......so exploiting suppliers, overpaying top executives and underpaying checkout staff and shelf stackers is OK as long as it takes place in Hazel Grove, Bredbury and Whaley Bridge?  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on January 20, 2012, 06:54:20 PM
miss marple u must have loads of money or like staying up all night, if u can spend that much money on just coffee, and if asda/tesco comes to marple, you could walk to the supermarket and then carry it home, which means the supermarket would be saving on petrol as well as yourself and then you both would be saving the planet. or did the delivery van not use any petrol when bringing your coffee to your house.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 20, 2012, 08:04:15 PM
miss marple u must have loads of money or like staying up all night, if u can spend that much money on just coffee, and if asda/tesco comes to marple, you could walk to the supermarket and then carry it home, which means the supermarket would be saving on petrol as well as yourself and then you both would be saving the planet. or did the delivery van not use any petrol when bringing your coffee to your house.

   and after all that it was cheaper AT ASDA . ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cyberman on January 21, 2012, 04:06:24 PM
Quote
   
Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1269 on: Yesterday at 09:30:48 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
The Co-op may not exploit their suppliers, but they certainly exploit their customers, when you compare their prices with those at any proper supermarket.

And re this:
Quote from: Cyberman on January 19, 2012, 09:58:46 PM
Here's an article which summarises one reason why I don't want a big supermarket in Marple.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/pays-tesco-ceo-wages-we-do

......so exploiting suppliers, overpaying top executives and underpaying checkout staff and shelf stackers is OK as long as it takes place in Hazel Grove, Bredbury and Whaley Bridge?  Huh
   

No. all this is not OK in Hazel Grove, Bredbury etc but that's what we've got. I think the spread of the Big 4 across the UK should be stopped, for many reasons I've mentioned before. In my opinion Marple is fine without a large (note LARGE) supermarket on the doorstep and should stay that way.

I don't find the Co-op excessively expensive. The others are very good at attracting customers with a few special offers, but for the rest of the stuff prices are much the same.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on January 21, 2012, 05:00:03 PM
miss marple tesco didnt save money petrol or the planet delivering your coffee
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 21, 2012, 05:19:35 PM
Quote
   
Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #1269 on: Yesterday at 09:30:48 AM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
The Co-op may not exploit their suppliers, but they certainly exploit their customers, when you compare their prices with those at any proper supermarket.

And re this:


Quote from: Cyberman on January 19, 2012, 09:58:46 PM
Here's an article which summarises one reason why I don't want a big supermarket in Marple.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/pays-tesco-ceo-wages-we-do

......so exploiting suppliers, overpaying top executives and underpaying checkout staff and shelf stackers is OK as long as it takes place in Hazel Grove, Bredbury and Whaley Bridge?  Huh
   
No. all this is not OK in Hazel Grove, Bredbury etc but that's what we've got. I think the spread of the Big 4 across the UK should be stopped, for many reasons I've mentioned before. In my opinion Marple is fine without a large (note LARGE) supermarket on the doorstep and should stay that way.

I don't find the Co-op excessively expensive. The others are very good at attracting customers with a few special offers, but for the rest of the stuff prices are much the same.

     Ok Iceland Kellogg's corn flakes £2.7o .coop 2.79 milk is dearer at the coop as many other things are.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 21, 2012, 05:49:36 PM
miss marple tesco didnt save money petrol or the planet delivering your coffee
Let's not split hairs.   One van, one lot of petrol about 25+ deliveries in one !  simple.com
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rsh on January 21, 2012, 06:46:39 PM
I don't find the Co-op excessively expensive. The others are very good at attracting customers with a few special offers, but for the rest of the stuff prices are much the same.

Not excessively, no, but the Co-op does appear to price practically every product around 10% higher than the big four, almost an extra 10p on everything. A problem I think is that large convenience stores seem to be the group's main food business now, rather than full supermarkets, so Marple is a bit of an anomaly.

I still don't quite know how they got away with keeping the old Somerfield at Texaco, completely starving us of choice.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 21, 2012, 08:06:31 PM
I don't find the Co-op excessively expensive. The others are very good at attracting customers with a few special offers, but for the rest of the stuff prices are much the same.

Not excessively, no, but the Co-op does appear to price practically every product around 10% higher than the big four, almost an extra 10p on everything. A problem I think is that large convenience stores seem to be the group's main food business now, rather than full supermarkets, so Marple is a bit of an anomaly.

I still don't quite know how they got away with keeping the old Somerfield at Texaco, completely starving us of choice.

They offloaded the one in romiley that used to be somerfields .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 22, 2012, 11:20:02 AM
miss marple u must have loads of money or like staying up all night, if u can spend that much money on just coffee, and if asda/tesco comes to marple, you could walk to the supermarket and then carry it home, which means the supermarket would be saving on petrol as well as yourself and then you both would be saving the planet. or did the delivery van not use any petrol when bringing your coffee to your house.

   and after all that it was cheaper AT ASDA . ;D
No it wasn't cheaper at ASDA but it would have been cheaper on Amazon and free delivery !  I am not as savvy a shopper as I would like to believe  :-\. Next time I will get it from Amazon !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on January 23, 2012, 09:59:15 PM
25 new ASDA stores due in 2012.  Oh what joy.   :'(

Lists some of them here (http://your.asda.com/press-centre/asda-set-to-invest-over-500m-in-2012-) but no mention of the Marple one just yet.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 24, 2012, 09:33:17 AM
It's years away, if it ever happens.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Blossom on January 24, 2012, 09:19:51 PM
25 new ASDA stores due in 2012.  Oh what joy.   :'(

Lists some of them here (http://your.asda.com/press-centre/asda-set-to-invest-over-500m-in-2012-) but no mention of the Marple one just yet.

That's a shame, still it might make the list soon.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 25, 2012, 06:17:12 PM
25 new ASDA stores due in 2012.  Oh what joy.   :'(

Lists some of them here (http://your.asda.com/press-centre/asda-set-to-invest-over-500m-in-2012-) but no mention of the Marple one just yet.

That's a shame, still it might make the list soon.
Oh I do hope so !  I can not wait !  ;D I have my tent ready and waiting !  ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sleepless on January 26, 2012, 06:25:56 PM
If "studies show that supermarkets catch diversion trips" this would explain why so many people from Marple do their supermarket shopping outside the town ie on their way home from work etc, therefore they don't need to use a supermarket in Marple, nor are they travelling extra miles as they pass an alternative anyway.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 26, 2012, 07:20:59 PM
If "studies show that supermarkets catch diversion trips" this would explain why so many people from Marple do their supermarket shopping outside the town ie on their way home from work etc, therefore they don't need to use a supermarket in Marple, nor are they travelling extra miles as they pass an alternative anyway.

Thats some of the trips, but you need to quote the whole sentance. Transfer trips are a signficant part of the make up.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 27, 2012, 05:02:13 PM
It's understandable that a lot of this discussion has focused on traffic issues, but we shouldn't forget those who can't, or don't want to, drive to do their shopping.

We need to remember that:

1. About 25% of UK households don't have a car. 
2. The Marple area has the biggest % of elderly residents in Stockport (If you doubt it, look around you in the Co-op.  I'm no spring chicken, but when I go there I feel young again   ;D)
3. The potential supermarket site in Hibbert Lane is close to some of Marple's least affluent residential areas, where car ownership is therefore likely to be lower than in some other parts.

It's quite thought-provoking when you pass a big five-bedroom detached house in one of the leafier parts of Marple, and you see a 'No' poster in the window saying 'save our community'.  There are two cars in the drive, and at least one of them is a 4x4.  They can afford to buy their food at Waitrose or M&S, or maybe the Sainsbury's van calls here.  And yet they want to prevent people who are less fortunate than themselves from being able to shop locally more cheaply.  And they also want to stop our local college improving its facilities (but of course, it doesn't matter to them as their kids go to Stockport Grammar  ::))
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 27, 2012, 05:48:40 PM
It's understandable that a lot of this discussion has focused on traffic issues, but we shouldn't forget those who can't, or don't want to, drive to do their shopping.

We need to remember that:

1. About 25% of UK households don't have a car.  
2. The Marple area has the biggest % of elderly residents in Stockport (If you doubt it, look around you in the Co-op.  I'm no spring chicken, but when I go there I feel young again   ;D)
3. The potential supermarket site in Hibbert Lane is close to some of Marple's least affluent residential areas, where car ownership is therefore likely to be lower than in some other parts.

It's quite thought-provoking when you pass a big five-bedroom detached house in one of the leafier parts of Marple, and you see a 'No' poster in the window saying 'save our community'.  There are two cars in the drive, and at least one of them is a 4x4.  They can afford to buy their food at Waitrose or M&S, or maybe the Sainsbury's van calls here.  And yet they want to prevent people who are less fortunate than themselves from being able to shop locally more cheaply.  And they also want to stop our local college improving its facilities (but of course, it doesn't matter to them as their kids go to Stockport Grammar  ::))

Good post that Dave it's bit like sod you iam all right jack .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on January 27, 2012, 07:10:00 PM
It's understandable that a lot of this discussion has focused on traffic issues, but we shouldn't forget those who can't, or don't want to, drive to do their shopping.

We need to remember that:

1. About 25% of UK households don't have a car. 
2. The Marple area has the biggest % of elderly residents in Stockport (If you doubt it, look around you in the Co-op.  I'm no spring chicken, but when I go there I feel young again   ;D)
3. The potential supermarket site in Hibbert Lane is close to some of Marple's least affluent residential areas, where car ownership is therefore likely to be lower than in some other parts.

It's quite thought-provoking when you pass a big five-bedroom detached house in one of the leafier parts of Marple, and you see a 'No' poster in the window saying 'save our community'.  There are two cars in the drive, and at least one of them is a 4x4.  They can afford to buy their food at Waitrose or M&S, or maybe the Sainsbury's van calls here.  And yet they want to prevent people who are less fortunate than themselves from being able to shop locally more cheaply.  And they also want to stop our local college improving its facilities (but of course, it doesn't matter to them as their kids go to Stockport Grammar  ::))

Some very good points there, Dave.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 27, 2012, 08:23:39 PM
The potential supermarket site in Hibbert Lane is close to some of Marple's least affluent residential areas, where car ownership is therefore likely to be lower than in some other part?

How strange! Have you not seen all the NO posters in that area?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 27, 2012, 08:44:58 PM
The potential supermarket site in Hibbert Lane is close to some of Marple's least affluent residential areas, where car ownership is therefore likely to be lower than in some other parts.
How strange!Have you not seen all the NO posters in that area?


Have seen some tired looking posters  a bit like the people that put them up . One near me asked them were do you shop o we go to morrisons .yet they have a no poster up .sad ......
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 27, 2012, 09:24:19 PM
It's understandable that a lot of this discussion has focused on traffic issues, but we shouldn't forget those who can't, or don't want to, drive to do their shopping.

We need to remember that:

1. About 25% of UK households don't have a car.  
2. The Marple area has the biggest % of elderly residents in Stockport (If you doubt it, look around you in the Co-op.  I'm no spring chicken, but when I go there I feel young again   ;D)
3. The potential supermarket site in Hibbert Lane is close to some of Marple's least affluent residential areas, where car ownership is therefore likely to be lower than in some other parts.

It's quite thought-provoking when you pass a big five-bedroom detached house in one of the leafier parts of Marple, and you see a 'No' poster in the window saying 'save our community'.  There are two cars in the drive, and at least one of them is a 4x4.  They can afford to buy their food at Waitrose or M&S, or maybe the Sainsbury's van calls here.  And yet they want to prevent people who are less fortunate than themselves from being able to shop locally more cheaply.  And they also want to stop our local college improving its facilities (but of course, it doesn't matter to them as their kids go to Stockport Grammar  ::))


Good post that Dave it's bit like sod you iam all right jack .

Dave just sees what he wants to see and makes ridiculous assumptions. A lot of people will be shocked to learn they live in the least affluent area according to Dave ::) No matter where someone lives, they are all entitled to have, and display a social conscience. Stockport Grammar? Another over the top presumption. This whole issue is not about where we live or how much money we have, it is about a lot of people not wanting a major supermarket in Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 28, 2012, 07:47:49 AM
"No matter where someone lives, they are all entitled to have, and display a social conscience....."

Trouble is Mrs O, your idea of a social conscience is not necessarily the same as others.

You believe that it means fighting for one's community in trying to fight off the perils of a supermarket.

Others see a social argument for providing a supermarket within easy travel range of the more disadvantaged of the community.

Who's to say, who is right and who is wrong? I certainly don't think either argument is based on "ridiculous assumptions". Does it hurt to ever try and see the other side of the argument away from your own perspective, therefore allowing for constructive debate?  ???



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 28, 2012, 09:52:36 AM
Yes, we've all seen the 'no' posters in Hibbert Lane, but that's not what I meant by 'less affluent areas'. I won't list the roads in question, because Mrs O seems to regard it as a sensitive issue. But anyone who knows Marple knows where the less affluent areas are, and I don't think you'll see many 'no' posters there.
As for 'social conscience', how can anyone who opposes the improvement of educational facilities claim to have one?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 28, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
Dave / Belly I have never heard such absolute rubbish and believe me I do know about this issue !!    Under the present benefit system I have NEVER seen anyone in absolute poverty whereby they can not afford to feed their family in MARPLE.   I have although seen relative poverty whereby people prioritise monies differently for example seeing smoking and socialising high on their list of priorities and at nearly £7.00 for a packet of cigarettes it is rather an expensive priority ( I smoke and it's one of my priorities). Sky TV , designer clothing , fast food and the like are top priorities for some.
I take great offence at you saying that the building of a supermarket  would benefit the people living around the site.
Just by reading your posts I can tell that you know nothing about the area and that you are not local to it.  I grew up around that area and there are lots of people who have purchased their properties and take pride in what they have achieved.  How dare you both feel that it is acceptable to devalue property and disrupt  peoples lives.   It strange but the majority of the YES campaign group at that time( think they have disbanded now) were either living in social housing or in rented properties whereby they can move if the development becomes a problem.  Sadly the majority of us can not because we own our properties and will have to stay and suffer, noise , light pollution , increased traffic and the like.
To say the area is less affluent is also an insult to people who have chosen to live there.  This social housing is where many LOCAL  young people hope to live!  So what are you both saying , that it's OK to put a supermarket in an area so we can enhance a PRIVATE college but it's acceptable for our local children to bring their families up around a noisy, traffic congested site.  
You both need a reality check !  I would like to see both your reactions if the supermarket was to be developed in your back yard  SHAME ON YOU BOTH you come across as inverted snobs which I feel is a far description, plus you  have both  just given me the determination to go on to fight this ridicules proposal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 28, 2012, 11:02:26 AM
I think you should stick to your own opinions Dave, as opposed to presuming you know the opinions of swathes of Marple residents.  Re your closed argument on the proposed supermarket/educational facilities, as I've said before, the improvement of educational facilities shouldn't depend on flogging land to a supermarket so it is entirely valid to oppose the proposed supermarket whilst supporting the education of all our children/grandchildren etc..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on January 28, 2012, 11:06:41 AM
Dear Miss M

I think you need to read my post again. I don't believe I expressed my opinion as to which of the views put forward I agreed with. I simply took issue with the belittling "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude of the response to Dave's original post. An attitude which you have simply repeated in spades in your own reply.

Well done. If you want to alienate people from the cause, you couldn't have done it better.

Belly
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 28, 2012, 11:24:56 AM
Yes, we've all seen the 'no' posters in Hibbert Lane, but that's not what I meant by 'less affluent areas'. I won't list the roads in question, because Mrs O seems to regard it as a sensitive issue. But anyone who knows Marple knows where the less affluent areas are, and I don't think you'll see many 'no' posters there.
As for 'social conscience', how can anyone who opposes the improvement of educational facilities claim to have one?
Dave,Do you see the less affluent areas as such because the majority only have one car? ::)Just an observation of mine.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 28, 2012, 11:38:16 AM
Steptoe, I entirely agree that  the improvement of educational facilities shouldn't depend on flogging land to a supermarket, but here in the real world I'm afraid that, sadly, it does :-(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 28, 2012, 12:03:03 PM
Steptoe, I entirely agree that  the improvement of educational facilities shouldn't depend on flogging land to a supermarket, but here in the real world I'm afraid that, sadly, it does :-(
No ! That's the world according to someone who doesn't live near the site, who does not know the area and does not understand or even wants to speak to the people that this development will effect and sadly someone who have been a governour and  aspires to still influence those of that circle.   Well Dave you have just been 'BLACK BALLED' by most of this community. 
Just a question? Why have you not responded to me ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 28, 2012, 01:47:38 PM
Steptoe, I entirely agree that  the improvement of educational facilities shouldn't depend on flogging land to a supermarket, but here in the real world I'm afraid that, sadly, it does :-(


Dave, again we have your opinion masquerading as the facts in 'the real world'.  I get that you were in education now as you do try to speak to people as if they are children .  However, you are wrong and how do I know this?  Because every other educational facility across the country that has invested in it's facilities hasn't flogged land to a supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 28, 2012, 03:37:42 PM
I can promise you, Steptoe, that there is currently no government funding available for major capital projects at colleges. Any colleges doing major buidling projects right now will have funded them by borrowing and/or selling off land or buildings.

To answer Miss M's question (previous post): I'm happy to engage in polite and rational discussion, but I won't take part in a slanging match.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 28, 2012, 07:08:30 PM
I can promise you, Steptoe, that there is currently no government funding available for major capital projects at colleges. Any colleges doing major buidling projects right now will have funded them by borrowing and/or selling off land or buildings.

To answer Miss M's question (previous post): I'm happy to engage in polite and rational discussion, but I won't take part in a slanging match.
I bet you don't !  It would be very difficult for you to come face to face with the people who you think should suffer if a supermarket came feet away from their front/back door.  Because Dave that's the reality, some of the effected houses butt up to the development site.  I suggest you have a walk around the area not a drive by .  Tell you what,  go and knock on a few doors and explain your reasoning to people who have worked hard all their life and continue to work hard to keep their property in these economic times.  Tell them how you think that they should allow their quality of life, devaluation of their property, additional pollution and increased traffic so that a private/public college can upgrade their facilities.
For goodness sake CAMSFC had the land and buildings given to them and should have maintained them to a higher standard.  Even college Min's see Governors questioning how little had been spent on maintenance at the Hibbert Lane campus and share their concerns with Ms Cassidy (thought you had read these)
So Dave I agree you are best placed to remain an unknown person, avoiding meeting the people directly effected , but a word to the wise , get out of that armchair in your ivory tower from time to time and remember to keep your Rose tinted specks crystal clear so that you are ready when you have the courage to come to the MIA stall to enlighten the unenlightened  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on January 28, 2012, 07:50:40 PM
I can promise you, Steptoe, that there is currently no government funding available for major capital projects at colleges. Any colleges doing major buidling projects right now will have funded them by borrowing and/or selling off land or buildings.

To answer Miss M's question (previous post): I'm happy to engage in polite and rational discussion, but I won't take part in a slanging match.
I bet you don't !  It would be very difficult for you to come face to face with the people who you think should suffer if a supermarket came feet away from their front/back door.  Because Dave that's the reality, some of the effected houses butt up to the development site.  I suggest you have a walk around the area not a drive by .  Tell you what,  go and knock on a few doors and explain your reasoning to people who have worked hard all their life and continue to work hard to keep their property in these economic times.  Tell them how you think that they should allow their quality of life, devaluation of their property, additional pollution and increased traffic so that a private/public college can upgrade their facilities.
For goodness sake CAMSFC had the land and buildings given to them and should have maintained them to a higher standard.  Even college Min's see Governors questioning how little had been spent on maintenance at the Hibbert Lane campus and share their concerns with Ms Cassidy (thought you had read these)
So Dave I agree you are best placed to remain an unknown person, avoiding meeting the people directly effected , but a word to the wise , get out of that armchair in your ivory tower from time to time and remember to keep your Rose tinted specks crystal clear so that you are ready when you have the courage to come to the MIA stall to enlighten the unenlightened  :-\

Wow that's telling him .come on dave your turn .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplemum on January 28, 2012, 08:10:09 PM
Although I don't post very often on this website; mainly as I don't want to enter into a slanging match with Miss M, I do try to read much of what is written (whilst trying to ignore the point scoring that seems to dominate the discussion) however I do feel I have to write to support much of what Dave says and to defend his right to say it. I'm sure Dave is more than capable of defending himself so I will leave it up to him to reply.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss C on January 28, 2012, 08:54:10 PM
I agree with Marplemum. As a newcomer to the area, I've used this website to find out about my new hometown and what's important to the people who live here, with the intention of seeing what part I can play in the community. However, despite a great job by Mark in trying to get people to stick to the point and engage in robust discussion, it's so disappointing to read people trying to belittle others still and being unable to tolerate opinions different to their own. I think I'll give this site a rest for a while as it just makes me despair of the attitudes some people have toward others. We try to teach young people to stand up for what they believe in but to do so respectfully in the knowledge that everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is the example we set for them. What a shame a few people dominate this site and feel comfortable telling others what they are best placed to do and they are blackballed by the community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 28, 2012, 09:22:32 PM
I agree with Marplemum. As a newcomer to the area, I've used this website to find out about my new hometown and what's important to the people who live here, with the intention of seeing what part I can play in the community. However, despite a great job by Mark in trying to get people to stick to the point and engage in robust discussion, it's so disappointing to read people trying to belittle others still and being unable to tolerate opinions different to their own. I think I'll give this site a rest for a while as it just makes me despair of the attitudes some people have toward others. We try to teach young people to stand up for what they believe in but to do so respectfully in the knowledge that everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is the example we set for them. What a shame a few people dominate this site and feel comfortable telling others what they are best placed to do and they are blackballed by the community.
you don't have to avoid the site just the  ASDA and Tesco topic   Welcome to MARPLE !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Susan on January 28, 2012, 09:45:33 PM
Miss Marple just to let you know the yes campaigne is still going.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 29, 2012, 11:30:57 AM
Thanks for the information Susan I just wondered because it had gone a little quiet.  But there again so has the NO campaign due to us waiting for the next phase which will be the submission of the application to SMBC.   Once the submission is in MIA will be more active than ever because it will be then that we see what the proposals are and how some of our so called scaremongering may in fact come to light.
I am not sure if this had been reported but a recent  developer had asked to put a small supermarket on the site along with 50 houses they offered 8.5 million but this was rejected. 
Information such as this is quite worrying because if a developer was offering 8.5 million for a relatively small supermarket with 50 residential properties on the site and was refused, one has to now question how large is the proposed supermarket going to be if they are offering in around 14 million.
MIA will be back out on the streets in Feb as we have said before, nothing would be known about this proposal even NOW ! If MIA had not had a leak from inside the college, the first the community would have known was a notice pinned to a lamp post. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 29, 2012, 11:44:25 AM
I can promise you, Steptoe, that there is currently no government funding available for major capital projects at colleges. Any colleges doing major buidling projects right now will have funded them by borrowing and/or selling off land or buildings.

To answer Miss M's question (previous post): I'm happy to engage in polite and rational discussion, but I won't take part in a slanging match.


Dave, I trust you'll understand if I disregard your promise on the basis that you have no professional involvement with CAMSFC or the relevant Government departments.  Re your point about current investment, there is the question of why the CAMSFC management had not applied for funding 5 or 10 years ago if the buildings are in such disrepair...mismanagement?  Or, perhaps they knew there was a supermarket bid in the offing so they went for the easy option...again, mismanagement?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 29, 2012, 12:14:45 PM
Steptoe you have got it in one!  The CAMSFC mins show that the college was in talks even before the required time to place a bid with the LSC    For nearly 7 years the college has been throwing money at land agents this has been going on for Years and the College wanted to keep it a secret.  Like I have always said ! If it's such a great idea and one that will benefit our community and future generations why are CAMSFC not shouting from the roof Tops about how great it is.  Instead we have a corporation that has consistently refused to meet with local residents to talk about the proposals .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 29, 2012, 05:27:41 PM
You're right Steptoe - I have no connection with camsfc.  My knowledge of this subject, such as it is, stems from my work in colleges until my retirement about three years ago.

One of the problems with this thread is that it is now so long that it is tending sometimes to go over old ground. However, by using the search function I have unearthed the relavant posts, which were back in August:

I may be able to throw a bit of light on the issue of the funding application by camsfc to the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) in 2008. AFAIK it wasn't really a missed deadline at all. What happened was that the LSC suddenly discovered they had massively over-committed capital funding to college building projects all over the country. That is, they promised far more money than they actually had! It was quite a scandal at the time - there were many colleges whose project planning was at an advanced stage, who were suddenly told they couldn't have any capital funding after all! I gather Aquinas only just got under the wire. This was all very sudden, and until then there was no reason for any college to believe that funds were about to run out. So I think the cock up, if there was one, was probably at the LSC.  

This is true, we did a lot of work with colleges and huge swathes of them got cancelled, a lot after significant sums were spent on design fees. The colleges were led to believe that the money was just a formality. Head of LSC lost his jobs, loads of poorer colleges effectively wasted a load of money. A dreadful state of affairs.  :(

We did the acoustics on Acquinas FWIW :)

And as you don't seem to want to believe anything I write, here's a link to the LSC's Wikipedia entry:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_and_Skills_Council. Scroll down to the section entitled 'Economic Mismanagement in College Rebuilding'.

Having built college buildings myself, I have to say that what camsfc are trying to achieve is far from an 'easy option'.  If there had been capital funding still available from government sources, they would have gone for it - they'd have been crazy not to! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on January 31, 2012, 05:07:20 PM
Dave, it's nothing to do with not believing anything you write, you shouldn't be so touchy.  What was your role in connection with colleges? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on January 31, 2012, 05:52:01 PM
...... there is the question of why the CAMSFC management had not applied for funding 5 or 10 years ago if the buildings are in such disrepair...

They did apply.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on January 31, 2012, 05:57:12 PM
Steptoe, I provided accurate information on the funding of capital projects at colleges.  In return, all I got from you was: 
Dave, again we have your opinion masquerading as the facts
and...
Dave, I trust you'll understand if I disregard your promise

So I reckon I'm entitled to feel touchy.   ::)

In answer to your question, my various posts were in teaching and in management. In my last job I had overall responsibility for three multi-million pound building projects.  These were funded by borrowing, the sale of a building, enabling developments (i.e. having something else on the site that makes a contribution), and capital grants from funding councils.  Sadly, the latter source has dried up, as described above. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 31, 2012, 07:06:46 PM
CAMSTC were actively  looking to sell before applying for funding from LSC you really need to plough through their mins  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on January 31, 2012, 08:01:56 PM
MM - you constantly denigrate the intentions of the college and those who are charged to oversee its affairs, whether we are talking about the senior management or governors. Are you really so unsure of your case that you need to resort to these tactics? In your world, EVERYTHING the college has done over the past 5 years is devious, reprehensible or dishonest and you look for any evidence to support this. You appear unable to accept that those running the college are making what they believe to be the best decisions for that institution. You should accept that they are acting in good faith and, if you disagree, debate the issues forcefully and furiously. What you shouldn't be doing is constantly resorting to slurs, denigration and, effectively, character assassination? That, however, appears to be par for the course in campaigns like these.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on January 31, 2012, 08:19:55 PM
MM - you constantly denigrate the intentions of the college and those who are charged to oversee its affairs, whether we are talking about the senior management or governors. Are you really so unsure of your case that you need to resort to these tactics? In your world, EVERYTHING the college has done over the past 5 years is devious, reprehensible or dishonest and you look for any evidence to support this. You appear unable to accept that those running the college are making what they believe to be the best decisions for that institution. You should accept that they are acting in good faith and, if you disagree, debate the issues forcefully and furiously. What you shouldn't be doing is constantly resorting to slurs, denigration and, effectively, character assassination? That, however, appears to be par for the course in campaigns like these.
Its  called reiterating ! Like Dave says the thread is very long so like Dave I am just reiterating! That's ok isn't it !  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on January 31, 2012, 08:45:21 PM
So(CAMSFC) are making what they believe to be the best decision for their institution.What about our town?Miss Marple is not the only person fighting for what we know and love.There is more to this thread than point scoring.Denigration,slurs and character assassination?If the cap fits they should wear it >:(.A large supermarket will not affect the governors or the principal as it will not be at the bottom of their gardens or mine,but I feel great empathy for the people in the immediate vicinity whose homes will cetainly be devalued.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 01, 2012, 09:41:48 AM
So(CAMSFC) are making what they believe to be the best decision for their institution.What about our town?

I think this is the heart of the question.  But surely there is little difference between the interests of the college and the interests of our town.  The college exists to serve our town.  Improving its facilities will improve its capacity to serve our town.  So it is in our interests as well, isn't it?  

I feel great empathy for the people in the immediate vicinity whose homes will cetainly be devalued.

Me too, and I think this is also at the heart of the issue.  Surely any of us who happened to live very close to the site would feel the same.  Whenever there are big construction projects - motorways, factories, railways, and yes, supermarkets - there are neighbouring properties who are affected, often seriously.  But sometimes we have to weigh this downside against the benefits to the wider community, and that's the job of the planners, of course, once an application goes in (if it ever does).  There's currently an interesting example, down in the Chiltern Hills, where the new High Speed 2 rail line is due to pass very close to the prime-minister's father-in-law's back garden.....    :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 01, 2012, 02:34:50 PM
Dave, If I owned a home on Lyme Grove and it was devalued and I was to find myself in negative equity, I don't think I would be saying it's o.k I am helping the wider community as the college exists to serve our town. ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 01, 2012, 04:55:45 PM
Me neither Mrs O.   :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on February 01, 2012, 09:58:02 PM
Thanks for the info Dave, things are a bit clearer now...can I dare to suggest that your continual devotion to the 'flog the land to a supermarket' cause has something to do with you former role?  Perhaps there's a lack of objectivity at play?  You've continuously tried to undermine the efforts of those opposed to the supermarket and I think that your former role shines a light on this...you'd rather that those professionally involved in these schemes were allowed to make the decisions without the pesky community getting involved.  Regarding facts, one fact we do have is that more than 7000 people have signed a petition against the supermarket.  :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on February 01, 2012, 10:02:53 PM
Well, Steptoe, yet another case of "playing the man rather than the ball". Always much easier than arguing your case, don't you think?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 02, 2012, 10:03:02 AM
can I dare to suggest that your continual devotion to the 'flog the land to a supermarket' cause has something to do with you former role?  Perhaps there's a lack of objectivity at play?  You've continuously tried to undermine the efforts of those opposed to the supermarket and I think that your former role shines a light on this...you'd rather that those professionally involved in these schemes were allowed to make the decisions without the pesky community getting involved.  Regarding facts, one fact we do have is that more than 7000 people have signed a petition against the supermarket.  :)

I see what you're getting at, Steptoe.  Certainly my work in education has left me feeling passionately about its importance.  As for the 'pesky community', we have no reliable evidence as to what the majority opinion of residents is.  The 7,000 signatures of people who oppose it is certainly an impressive total (about 30% of the population, although it includes some people who don't live in Marple).  But people haven't been given all the facts, they have only been given what MIA have told them, which has included some pretty dodgy misinformation at times.  And to save Miss Marple pointing it out, yes that is the college's fault: they failed to inform and consult fully from the outset - indeed, they seem to have been almost secretive at times.  And as a result, they have handed a propaganda victory to their opponents.  They really do need a good PR person! 

So the college has made a right mess of the communications - but we do still need better education facilities in Marple!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on February 02, 2012, 06:50:28 PM
Well, Steptoe, yet another case of "playing the man rather than the ball". Always much easier than arguing your case, don't you think?

It's playing the game sir, man and ball are both inextricably involved.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 05, 2012, 12:24:51 AM
Noticed a couple of properties are for sale on Lyme Grove Marple and also one directly opposite the college on Hibbert Lane.All these properties would be affected if a supermarket was to be built  on Hibbert Lane.It is so sad that people are selling up the home they chose to buy before the college decided to sell withiut any thought to Marple residents >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 05, 2012, 10:06:05 AM
Noticed a couple of properties are for sale on Lyme Grove Marple and also one directly opposite the college on Hibbert Lane.All these properties would be affected if a supermarket was to be built  on Hibbert Lane.It is so sad that people are selling up the home they chose to buy before the college decided to sell withiut any thought to Marple residents >:(

Are you sure that you don't write copy for the Daily Mail?

Unless those who live in these properties come out and say that this is the reason that they are moving, that is pure speculation. I looked at buying a house in Lyme Grove 6-7 years ago, I now wonder why those residents wanted to sell, did they have an inkilng then, or maybe, just maybe they wanted to move for their own personal reasons!  ???

Are the houses near to the sorting office now being sold, because that site is currently being touted as potentially being suitable as a Casino by SMBC? (amomgst other uses!)

I think its entirely possible that property de-valuation could become a self fulfilling prophecy if we are not careful. Tell theworld that houses will not be worth what they would have previoulsly been and hey presto, it happens! Let people decide for themselves - if I lived in these areas I would not appreciate someone coming out on my behalf to say my house has been blighted! Blight is in the eye of the beholder. Some people don't like living next to schools, some people don't like living next to supermarkets, some people don't like living next to garages, on main roads, etc. Given that houses in these locations all over the country are not empty and decaying, it would suggest that a lot of people actually don't mind these things that much and the world continues to turn.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 05, 2012, 11:37:53 AM
Noticed a couple of properties are for sale on Lyme Grove Marple and also one directly opposite the college on Hibbert Lane.All these properties would be affected if a supermarket was to be built  on Hibbert Lane.It is so sad that people are selling up the home they chose to buy before the college decided to sell withiut any thought to Marple residents >:(
.

Scare mongering .mrs o . Why don't you go and ask them why they are selling .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 05, 2012, 01:00:29 PM
Noticed a couple of properties are for sale on Lyme Grove Marple and also one directly opposite the college on Hubert Lane.All these properties would be affected if a supermarket was to be built  on Hubert Lane.It is so sad that people are selling up the home they chose to buy before the college decided to sell without any thought to Marple residents >:(
.

Scare mongering .Mrs o . Why don't you go and ask them why they are selling .


A good idea would be for the council to buy the land Turner it into a leisure centre new swimming baths out door floodlit tennis courts hockey pitches .sell the old baths to raise some money towards it .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on February 08, 2012, 05:19:13 PM
A great idea for a new sports centre only problem is the council can't afford to pay £15M for the land on Hibbert Lane, never mind the cost of building and running a wet & dry sports centre. Or are you proposing that our Council Tax rise, I don't think you will get any councillor proposing that in their election manifesto.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 08, 2012, 06:33:53 PM
Hi Victor M do you know if the youth club on Hibbert Lane Campus is in use and the costs involved.  Also have you any information on the sports centre IE is it being used by the public, how can you get to use it and cost of use, times open to public.   I have tried getting information but I am not really getting anywhere.  Hope you can help  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 08, 2012, 08:36:50 PM
A great idea for a new sports centre only problem is the council can't afford to pay £15M for the land on Hibbert Lane, never mind the cost of building and running a wet & dry sports centre. Or are you proposing that our Council Tax rise, I don't think you will get any councillor proposing that in their election manifesto.

It could be done or perhaps people don't want it done . There are sports clubs crying out for facilities in the area. . ...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 15, 2012, 09:38:11 PM
Well at least we now know that it's ASDA it's just a waiting game for the consultation period  which we have been promised will happen !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on February 15, 2012, 10:01:35 PM
Well at least we now know that it's ASDA it's just a waiting game for the consultation period  which we have been promised will happen !

Do we KNOW its ASDA?

I think I've only seen speculation and articles saying 'we believe'.

Is there any evidence to prove who is the front runner?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 16, 2012, 09:25:40 AM
Hello Harry,

We do now KNOW that it is Asda.

It has been confirmed by SMBC that CMSFC have entered into an agreement with Asda and this agreement should have been the subject of a "Chairs Announcement" at Area Committee last night. This is easy enough to check as the minutes are (when they've been typed up) a matter of public record and are available through all the usual information mediums.     

However, to date the Council has not received any further information in respect of the timing for the submission of either an application for pre-submission advice - or the submission of a formal planning application - but it is most certainly - Asda.

You are quite right there has been a lot of speculation over the whole issue, some of it extremely interesting and often it has been difficult to know what to believe. It is though worthy of mention that whilst some of this speculation has been imaginative some of it has turned out to be true.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 16, 2012, 02:10:28 PM
Hello Harry,

We do now KNOW that it is Asda.

It has been confirmed by SMBC that CMSFC have entered into an agreement with Asda and this agreement should have been the subject of a "Chairs Announcement" at Area Committee last night. This is easy enough to check as the minutes are (when they've been typed up) a matter of public record and are available through all the usual information mediums.     

However, to date the Council has not received any further information in respect of the timing for the submission of either an application for pre-submission advice - or the submission of a formal planning application - but it is most certainly - Asda.

You are quite right there has been a lot of speculation over the whole issue, some of it extremely interesting and often it has been difficult to know what to believe. It is though worthy of mention that whilst some of this speculation has been imaginative some of it has turned out to be true.


So what happens now .how long will the submission take is there a set time .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 16, 2012, 02:25:38 PM
The Service Director (Place Management) can report that Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College have confirmed that they have entered into an agreement with Asda with a view of pursuing a proposal for the redevelopment of the Hibbert Lane campus for a supermarket. To date the Council has not received any further information in respect of the timing for the submission of either an application for pre-submission advice or the submission of a formal planning application.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 16, 2012, 02:48:12 PM
If it happens (and it's a very big if!) it will be a few years away. My guess is 2016 at the earliest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 16, 2012, 03:12:23 PM
If it happens (and it's a very big if!) it will be a few years away. My guess is 2016 at the earliest.

God may not see this happen then ,will be 74 and a bit .will the posters last that long .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 16, 2012, 06:14:22 PM

Hello,


Amazon, we don't know what will happen-it is all speculation  but the ball is firmly in Asda's court and nothing at all will happen until Asda     submit a planning application.

There are numerous permutations here as far as  Hibbert Lane is concerned. In addition to this we can't ignore the Chadwick Street car-park and its influence on the Hibbert Lane site. If a buyer comes forward for Chadwick St site and its another supermarket (it might even be Asda themselves) then Asda's argument for the Hibbert Lane site is considerably weakened. It could even mean that Asda lose interest altogether in Hibbert Lane.

On the other hand if there is no interest in Chadwick Street and Asda chase their interest in Hibbert Lane then their planning application will probably be refused by SMBC. Next stage is appeal to Government Inspectors - if they lose,they could then choose to go for a judicial review and you know what they say about those .." I don't mind if my barrister doesn't know the law as long as he knows the judge".Even after that there are all kinds of appeals - its endless.


If it gets to a judicial review put your money on Asda. Judicial Reviews are about who can pay for the best legal team.

Who would you say that would be Stockport Council or Asda?






Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 16, 2012, 06:37:50 PM

Hello,


Amazon, we don't know what will happen-it is all speculation  but the ball is firmly in Asda's court and nothing at all will happen until Asda     submit a planning application.

There are numerous permutations here as far as  Hibbert Lane is concerned. In addition to this we can't ignore the Chadwick Street car-park and its influence on the Hibbert Lane site. If a buyer comes forward for Chadwick St site and its another supermarket (it might even be Asda themselves) then Asda's argument for the Hibbert Lane site is considerably weakened. It could even mean that Asda lose interest altogether in Hibbert Lane.

On the other hand if there is no interest in Chadwick Street and Asda chase their interest in Hibbert Lane then their planning application will probably be refused by SMBC. Next stage is appeal to Government Inspectors - if they lose,they could then choose to go for a judicial review and you know what they say about those .." I don't mind if my barrister doesn't know the law as long as he knows the judge".Even after that there are all kinds of appeals - its endless.


If it gets to a judicial review put your money on Asda. Judicial Reviews are about who can pay for the best legal team.

Who would you say that would be Stockport Council or Asda?


Thanks for that at least it makes me feel bit younger .




Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 17, 2012, 01:57:02 PM

If it gets to a judicial review put your money on Asda. Judicial Reviews are about who can pay for the best legal team.

Who would you say that would be Stockport Council or Asda?


A JR can only be pursued by a party if they can demonstrate that the Council acted improperly whilst making their planning decision or did not follow set procedure. It is absolutely not about the rights and wrongs of the planning case. In any event, all a JR can do is quosh the original decision and effectively demand that the process be repeated correctly. A JR cannot reverse the decision in itself. All the Council would then need to do is simply repeat the process correctly and make the same decision again. 

Typically a JR would also be lodged post the original Council decision, not after an appeal - as you only have 6 months post the procedural error being known to lodge a JR. You can seek to JR an appeal, but its a fairly pointless process for the reasons set out above - an Inspector is not going to change his original decisions just because the JR proved that he got his paperwork slightly wrong!

IMHO JR would be a fairly pointless approach for a supermarket to follow in the case of the H.L. site anyway, as the Council has already nailed its colours to the mast re: its decision. The only way that a supermarket is going to win is via strength of argument at the planning appeal stage.

Sorry for a very dull and boring post....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 17, 2012, 02:48:40 PM
That was not a dull and boring post Belly !  I found it very informative and gave insight into a very confusing procedure .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 17, 2012, 03:05:42 PM

If it gets to a judicial review put your money on Asda. Judicial Reviews are about who can pay for the best legal team.

Who would you say that would be Stockport Council or Asda?


A JR can only be pursued by a party if they can demonstrate that the Council acted improperly whilst making their planning decision or did not follow set procedure. It is absolutely not about the rights and wrongs of the planning case. In any event, all a JR can do is quosh the original decision and effectively demand that the process be repeated correctly. A JR cannot reverse the decision in itself. All the Council would then need to do is simply repeat the process correctly and make the same decision again. 

Typically a JR would also be lodged post the original Council decision, not after an appeal - as you only have 6 months post the procedural error being known to lodge a JR. You can seek to JR an appeal, but its a fairly pointless process for the reasons set out above - an Inspector is not going to change his original decisions just because the JR proved that he got his paperwork slightly wrong!

IMHO JR would be a fairly pointless approach for a supermarket to follow in the case of the H.L. site anyway, as the Council has already nailed its colours to the mast re: its decision. The only way that a supermarket is going to win is via strength of argument at the planning appeal stage.

Sorry for a very dull and boring post....
                                                      Not dull and boring .whats your job Belly .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 17, 2012, 04:49:04 PM
Amazon - I'm a consultant highway engineer / highway planner and therefore am often involved in projects not dissimilar to this. I can't profess to be a planning expert in anyway, but have to have a working knowledge (of sorts) of the planning process in order to keep on top of things.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 17, 2012, 05:21:26 PM
Hi Belly if required could you assist MIA Community Group with advice if needed.

  MIA Community Group have been quiet for sometime now as we have said before it's a waiting game.  We will shortly be making our presence known again and will be calling on our old faithful and loyal supporters  to assist us in showing  our commitment against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane  Thank You !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on February 17, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
Belly... Gatley in Action took Stockport council to Judicial review, against a decision involving I guess a bigger company than asda but if not comparable, in 2001... we won :D  It can be done and continues to be done across the country with the right specialist legal advice.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 17, 2012, 07:14:32 PM
Belly... Gatley in Action took Stockport council to Judicial review, against a decision involving I guess a bigger company than asda but if not comparable, in 2001... we won :D  It can be done and continues to be done across the country with the right specialist legal advice.

Yes it can be done, but it has to be recognised that JR is not an appeal against the principle of a planning decision, but simply a legal 'check' as to whether the correct procedure has been followed in delivering that decision. It can't change a decision, but it can quash it - i.e. tell the authority to run the process again. Unless matters jave fundamentally changed in the interim, it only acts as a delaying tactic. It is therefore most often used by objectors to a scheme.

Miss M - at the moment I'm not sure whether I object to the proposals - ask me again when plans are on the table.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 17, 2012, 07:52:10 PM
What will be your deciding factor Belly !  I hope those plans never get to the table ? Hopefully by then we will have an independent councillor batting for Marple and it's community
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on February 17, 2012, 10:24:34 PM
Our estates ready and waiting  for the call Miss Marple let's get organised and show the councillors and Asda we mean to fight this all the way
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 17, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
Johnny Boy Have you got people from you estate to sign the petition we need around 2,000 more signatures.   Can you send me a PM with your contact details.   Cheers. MM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on February 17, 2012, 10:42:00 PM
Just sent my details to you on a PM
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 17, 2012, 11:28:47 PM
Miss M writes ' I hope those plans never get to the table', but thankfully we live in a free and democratic society. If an individual or organisation wishes to submit a planning application, it is free to do so.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 17, 2012, 11:38:49 PM
Miss M writes ' I hope those plans never get to the table', but thankfully we live in a free and democratic society. If an individual or organisation wishes to submit a planning application, it is free to do so.
I could not agree more Dave !  We do live in a free and democratic society and that's why I am free to have an opinion and a right to free speech !  Lol  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 17, 2012, 11:53:55 PM
Miss M writes ' I hope those plans never get to the table', but thankfully we live in a free and democratic society. If an individual or organisation wishes to submit a planning application, it is free to do so.
Now thats what I call stating the obvious!Yawn, Goodnight all!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 18, 2012, 07:50:48 AM
No-one has disputed your 'right to free speech' Miss M - just your right to prevent a planning application 'getting to the table'.
Meanwhile, I see from the Latest News thread that our MP has been exercising his right to free speech on this matter. He assures us that he wants our college to 'prosper and flourish', and yet he is devoid of any other ideas as to how they might achieve the much-needed improvements which the college is proposing. I don't know about anyone else, but I expect my MP to stand up for his constituents by making sure they have access to the best possible public services. It's bizarre that an MP should be actively seeking to prevent such improvements:-O
I was also amused by Mr Stunnell's description of that busy bus route Hibbert Lane as 'a minor road' :-)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 18, 2012, 09:36:49 AM
What will be your deciding factor Belly !  I hope those plans never get to the table ? Hopefully by then we will have an independent councillor batting for Marple and it's community

I'm not sure to be honest. My gut feeling is not to prescribe to the general 'fear of the dark' regarding a supermarket's impact on the town centre, at least not if it wer to be of an appropriate size. Speaking from a personal perspective, a decent store in Marple would probably get me to use the town centre more regularly, as at the moment I travel out of the town weekly for my big shop (indeed, I'll be off on such a trip in 5 minutes time!). I'm also yet to be convinced of the traffic chaos that all predict - thats more from a professional perspective and again depends on the store size proposed. I want to see the nuts and bolts of what is being put forward. I many respects in traffic terms HL is a better site that Chadwick Street.

I appreciate the immediate resident's concerns about impact on their lives and I have sympathy for that, but my view, to a degree, is that 'life moves on' and if we are to have 'progress' in life, it sometimes has an effect on people. Finding the balance between serving the community and the impact on the individual is one of the key remits of the of planning system. Now I appreciate 'progess' and 'superstore' are perhaps mutually exclusive terms, but re-development of the HL campus will have impacts on neighbours whatever the proposals and I suspect that in order for the College to flourish, redevelopment will take place in some form or another eventually. I don't want to frustrate the evolution of Marple as a modern place to live.

So, I am still definitely a fence sitter at the momen I'm afraid. I'm always wary of a knee jerk reaction to say no to things that are new, but I am definitely wary of what the proposals may mean for the town. For now, I wish to guage the intensity of development proposed and come a conclusion on the extent of impact. To do that I need to see a scheme. Until then I want to contribute to the debate, to see both side of the argument and make my mind up. Rest assured I will be carrying out my own personal audit of any Transport Assessment submitted for the scheme. I also know that the SMBC highways officer will do a very thorough job - we've jousted on other development schemes across the Borough many times in the past!

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Carl Rydings on February 18, 2012, 02:18:13 PM
Annette Finnie (Marple North) Response to Carl Rydings (Marple South) over Supermarket Survey:

"We got about 50 responses to the Survey of which 17 expressed support for a super market somewhere in competition with the Co-oP.
I must stress that there are some who are opposed to Hibbert Lane but want another supermarket somewhere in Marple, such as myself.

We therefore appear in both camps. Hence the dispute on numbers. The Co-op is expensive and does not serve large families well.
These are small numbers, but reflect my experience talking to people locally.

The ones who support the supermarket idea think it will happen."


I agree with Annette that another supermarket in the area will be good competition, but i feel Hibbert Lane is not the right place.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 18, 2012, 06:11:31 PM
Carl would your survey have been clearer if it had  said Do you support a supermarket on Hibbert Lane .  Even MIA believe that competition for the coop is needed but that's as far as we go.  MIA was set up to oppose a supermarket on Hibbert Lane nothing more.  We are not affiliated to any political party but appreciate any help that any party offers.   What have yourself and Annette done to raise this issue within the Town Hall I would be very interested to know and I am sure some of the community who will be effected if the proposals go ahead would also like information .  I would also like to gain the views of the Labour Party as well so that come the elections the community may have a better understanding as to where their x is best placed.  The liberals have written letters to oppose the development in Marple, have the local Conservative party raised this matter with any town hall suits or sent letters of opposition to the Prime Minister ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 19, 2012, 11:36:43 AM

Of the six LibDem Marple Councillors three have not declared either way on the Hibbert Lane site. As far as I am aware they have deliberately said nothing. They certainly haven't written to anybody. So we don't really know if they are for or against a Supermarket. It can't have escaped attention that none of these three Councillors are up for election in 2012.

Of the three that have declared against it can't have escaped attention that two of them are up for election in May. Is that just a coincedence - do you think?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 19, 2012, 11:40:31 AM
It's not escaped my attention  with the pictures outside the college with the campaign 'THINK AGAIN' do they think we are fools ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 19, 2012, 12:50:33 PM
The assumption being that standing on an anti-college or anti-supermarket platform wins votes.
I wonder...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 19, 2012, 01:15:47 PM

Probably more like the assumption that - standing on a pro-supermarket platform on Hibbert Lane, loses votes.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on February 19, 2012, 07:02:09 PM
Belly... I don't agree JR it is a "delaying" tactic, as you agree you have to prove a legal issue with the planning application.  The development in Gatley remains undeveloped after 10 years and I presume they chose to go elsewhere to avoid the massive hassle and negative press that we gave them!

Whether Stockport Council and asda/college go totally by the (legal)book remains to be seen...

As to councillors supporting the cause... I think its a bit funny really... How often are developments, completely and utterly prior to any formal knowledge of size, transferred to a central planning committee decision rather than a local one?  Unless I've read it wrong somewhere wasn't this announced months ago??

I believed all apps went through the local planning meeting first.. and that's when they KNOW what the app entails! The local one can then send it to a central one?   This application if I remember all the info correctly has been transferred to full planning months before an application exists!! This frees our lovely councillors to finally have an opinion as they wont be part of that committee, and lets be honest, why on earth, after their initial silence whilst I'm sure they gauged general opinion, speak out FOR a supermarket when the election is looming?


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on February 19, 2012, 07:44:49 PM
I believed all apps went through the local planning meeting first.. and that's when they KNOW what the app entails! The local one can then send it to a central one?   This application if I remember all the info correctly has been transferred to full planning months before an application exists!! This frees our lovely councillors to finally have an opinion as they wont be part of that committee, and lets be honest, why on earth, after their initial silence whilst I'm sure they gauged general opinion, speak out FOR a supermarket when the election is looming?

It was said early on that the supermarket application would go straight a Stockport Planning Committee rather than a Marple one but at the Extra-Ordinary Area Committee meeting that was explained as being incorrect (a mistake).

A Marple Planning Committee cannot approve an application that goes against planning policy (as the supermarket would be) but they can reject something that goes against it. So the application will go to Marple Area Committee when it is submitted. Therefore 3 of our local councillors are staying on the fence so that they will be able to consider the application. The 3 who have declared their position already will not be allowed to take part in the decision.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 21, 2012, 01:28:10 PM
Consider this, call it a hypothetical question if you like.

Asda for all it tries can't get planning permission - so leaves town -  hurrah! for some not for others - I KNOW THAT!

As the deal with cmsfc was dependent upon PP being granted, cmsfc get no money from Asda therefore they cannot afford to run three sites. As Hibbert Lane offers the most potential they leave the site and put it up for sale -but no buyers come. The buildings are left to dilapidate and the vandals move in stealing;lead,copper, roof tiles anything that they can strip or carry away. Very soon the site is an eyesore - then the travellers move in.

Fanciful, pessimistic and far -fetched   ??
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 21, 2012, 02:54:50 PM
Consider this, call it a hypothetical question if you like.

Asda for all it tries can't get planning permission - so leaves town -  hurrah! for some not for others - I KNOW THAT!

As the deal with cmsfc was dependent upon PP being granted, cmsfc get no money from Asda therefore they cannot afford to run three sites. As Hibbert Lane offers the most potential they leave the site and put it up for sale -but no buyers come. The buildings are left to dilapidate and the vandals move in stealing;lead,copper, roof tiles anything that they can strip or carry away. Very soon the site is an eyesore - then the travellers move in.

Fanciful, pessimistic and far -fetched   ??

Then people will start complaining why can't something be done with this site .ist a mess as you say .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 21, 2012, 03:20:46 PM
Fanciful, pessimistic and far -fetched   ??

Yes.  There's no way the college could afford to simply close the Hibbert Lane site and walk away, without replacing it with alternative accommodation.  They would have to lose so many student enrolments that their income would collapse and they would probably go bust.  And their funding council wouldn't allow it anyway. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on February 21, 2012, 04:43:51 PM
As for every sale of property land... it will go to the next best bid I expect!  They will still sell it but at a reduced price and it will become houses.. or something else that we havent yet thought of!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 21, 2012, 06:14:08 PM
I'm not convinced of that, Lisa.  There's one overriding imperative: the college must be able to maintain student numbers at the current level at least, or they will lose funding.   If they can't raise enough from the disposal of the Hibbert Lane site, they won't be able to build sufficient space round the corner at Buxton Lane to accommodate all the displaced activity from Hibbert Lane.  I seem to recall that the site was valued at only £4 million if used for housing.  I don't think that would be enough, so it could cause the entire scheme to collapse.    :o
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 21, 2012, 08:03:47 PM
Tesco came first , Asda second, on the first bid  
Asda came first , Tesco second, on the second bid

CAMSFC decided to choose Asda on the second bid

Not sure why there were two bidding rounds maybe first round was with planning second without but I am not sure.  There is talk from inside the college that the land was passed over to Asda at the end of Jan 2012 but this has NOT BEEN CONFIRMED but it has come from a reliable source from inside the college so only time will tell.

Waitrose bid was  not accepted as they didn't bid enough initially
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 21, 2012, 09:10:59 PM
Tesco came first , Asda second, on the first bid  
Asda came first , Tesco second, on the second bid

CAMSFC decided to choose Asda on the second bid

Not sure why there were two bidding rounds maybe first round was with planning second without but I am not sure.  There is talk from inside the college that the land was passed over to Asda at the end of Jan 2012 but this has NOT BEEN CONFIRMED but it has come from a reliable source from inside the college so only time will tell.

Waitrose bid was  not accepted as they didn't bid enough initially

If it was passed to asda does that mean they own the land now and they will have paid the college .for it .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 21, 2012, 09:39:15 PM
Hello Amazon,

We can't know for sure until we see agreement details but what has probably occurred is that Asda have bought it subject to obtaining PP and if they don't get it ownership reverts back to MCSFC.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 21, 2012, 10:26:49 PM
I'm not convinced of that, Lisa.  There's one overriding imperative: the college must be able to maintain student numbers at the current level at least, or they will lose funding.   If they can't raise enough from the disposal of the Hibbert Lane site, they won't be able to build sufficient space round the corner at Buxton Lane to accommodate all the displaced activity from Hibbert Lane.  I seem to recall that the site was valued at only £4 million if used for housing.  I don't think that would be enough, so it could cause the entire scheme to collapse.    :o

Exactly Dave,  and what happens if the whole scheme does collapse? It still leaves MCSFC "ALLEGEDLY" WITH NO MONEY TO CONTINUE ON THE SITE ? What happens in Marple to Hibbert Lane site if Asda and MCSFC leave town - what's the choice then?   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 21, 2012, 11:20:53 PM
I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on February 22, 2012, 02:24:10 PM
Thank you, Belly, for your post on 18th Feb. It reflects my own views exactly.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 22, 2012, 02:36:00 PM
Consider this, call it a hypothetical question if you like.

Asda for all it tries can't get planning permission - so leaves town -  hurrah! for some not for others - I KNOW THAT!

As the deal with cmsfc was dependent upon PP being granted, cmsfc get no money from Asda therefore they cannot afford to run three sites. As Hibbert Lane offers the most potential they leave the site and put it up for sale -but no buyers come. The buildings are left to dilapidate and the vandals move in stealing;lead,copper, roof tiles anything that they can strip or carry away. Very soon the site is an eyesore - then the travellers move in.

Fanciful, pessimistic and far -fetched   ??


And suppose asda have paid full whack for the site allowing the collage to in prove then move .and Asda to keep as a land bank . For. years it could backfire on the no to a supermarket brigade .then what will they do
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 22, 2012, 05:22:47 PM
I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 22, 2012, 05:52:07 PM
[You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either.

Well here's the evidence for the College's finances being sound:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Annual_reports/Annual_Rep_08_09_lr.pdf

In addition, a fairly recent Ofsted inspection graded their financial position as 'outstanding', I believe.  So we know that the College is not disposing of the site because they are in any financial difficulty.

In answer to your question....
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

... we don't KNOW anything for sure, but that outcome is so improbable that we can safely disregard it.  This is because the College can not afford to (indeed, would not be allowed to) close courses or deliberately reduce student numbers.  So they will not sell the site unless they can get enough money for it to build sufficient replacement accommodation on the Buxton Lane site.  And no-one would buy it for £12 million or any other significant sum and then let it become a wasteland.  I understand the point about the site being bought up to be a 'land bank', but AFAIK that is usually done as a 'blocking move', when a big supermarket chain (e.g. Asda) buys up land to stop another big chain (e.g. Tesco) from opening up in competition with them.  The only supermarket in that position round here would be the Co-op.  Can anyone see them doing that?  Me neither......    ;)

Where I do agree with you, finetime, is here:
We can't know for sure until we see agreement details but what has probably occurred is that Asda have bought it subject to obtaining PP and if they don't get it ownership reverts back to MCSFC.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 22, 2012, 06:02:29 PM
I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.
Maybe it could be sold for the purpose it was gifted for,  Education ?  Possibly an alternative education provider could make use of the site at a reasonable price.  It has never ceased to amaze me that the people who supported a loss in an education facility were not only governors of CAMSFC but were prominent people working as lectures and professors based at Manchester University, the very people who should have been campaigning to save an education site for  future generations   I know I will hear that old chestnut  that CAMSFC are doing it to enhance facilities but at what cost to local Marple young people.  I am not sure what the population of MARPLE is currently but I do know that it's a dam sight more than when I was a school so how can we now think that we need less education sites ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 22, 2012, 06:45:01 PM
Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

However, I am sure that you agree that this is only one component in the equation. Much of what you say after that (although I do agree with your bit about the co-op) even the bit about the co-op is based on balance of probability or to be pedantic - balance of improbability which of course is just another name for speculation.

The people of Marple have been told from the onset and progressively by their elders and betters as far as CMSFC is concerned this and that etc etc will not be allowed ... nevertheless much of what was deemed to be "not be allowed" has come to pass. The latest declaration of "not be allowed" is planning permission for a supermarket by the Council. Well forgive my cynicism!

Anyway I go of track as I know that YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

Just a few more minutes of you time.  What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission?

     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on February 22, 2012, 06:52:37 PM
How can having an enhanced Buxton Lane site possibly be at a "cost" to young people? Why is the number of sites an issue at all? Surely it is the quality of provision, and the quality of the facilities, that really matter?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 22, 2012, 06:59:13 PM
Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

However, I am sure that you agree that this is only one component in the equation. Much of what you say after that (although I do agree with your bit about the co-op) even the bit about the co-op is based on balance of probability or to be pedantic - balance of improbability which of course is just another name for speculation.
The people of Marple have been told from the onset and progressively by their elders and betters as far as CMSFC is concerned this and that etc etc will not be allowed ... nevertheless much of what was deemed to be "not be allowed" has come to pass. The latest declaration of "not be allowed" is planning permission for a supermarket by the Council. Well forgive my cynicism!

Anyway I go of track as I know that YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

Just a few more minutes of you time.  What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission

     
And do you really believe that the community believe the hype ? And believe everything we are told by the town hall suits ?   You could not be more wrong, the community is watching and if any good has ever come out of the supermarket issue, it is that gone are the days when deals were done behind closed doors. This has been a wake up call for the community and will hopefully allow us to have consultation on any other future changes which directly effect us !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 22, 2012, 07:32:51 PM
Miss Marple,


I don't really understand your last posting and obviously you don't really understand mine. Apologies for not explaining it better.

What "hype" is this that you refer to?

When you say "you could not be more wrong" to whom do you address this remark? Surely not to me as that is my point exactly ...I DON'T BELIEVE...that's what ..."excuse my cynicism"... infers. 

I have no idea what the community believe - I have only discussed the issue with a very tiny percentage of it and would not presume to speak for it on that basis alone.

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 22, 2012, 07:59:56 PM
I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.


Ok you use words better than me .but ithink the no brigade should be concerned it could drive people away from marple ,if it's left to vandals .but that's just my opinion people sometimes don't like my opinion on this forum .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 22, 2012, 08:06:11 PM
Quote
I believed all apps went through the local planning meeting first.. and that's when they KNOW what the app entails! The local one can then send it to a central one?   This application if I remember all the info correctly has been transferred to full planning months before an application exists!! This frees our lovely councillors to finally have an opinion as they wont be part of that committee, and lets be honest, why on earth, after their initial silence whilst I'm sure they gauged general opinion, speak out FOR a supermarket when the election is looming?


Hello Lisa,

The planning application process is complicated. There is a particular situation where the AC can decide the whole thing and it doesn't  have to go to H & P, Paul L explained at the EACM but I wasn't listening properly.

What is intriguing is why half the Councillors should speak out and half shouldn't.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 22, 2012, 08:10:12 PM
I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way


Ok you use words better than me .but ithink the no brigade should be concerned it could drive people away from marple ,if it's left to vandals .but that's just my opinion people sometimes don't like my opinion on this forum .
I value your opinion Amazon even though we sometimes go head to head !  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on February 22, 2012, 08:16:34 PM
Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

College finances are in great shape, by ensuring 10% of staff leave the college in 2012.  The writing's on the Wall(mart) for them.  Unsure whether the axing of so many staff will lead to increased student numbers and improved student grades though. 

At least there could be a big new employer in town by then, for all those out of work lecturers.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2012_07_11m%20Part%20A.pdf (http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2012_07_11m%20Part%20A.pdf)
A Governor commented that the reduction in the pay bill from £11.4 to £10m was a 10% cut in one year and translated into a significant reduction in staff.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 22, 2012, 09:12:54 PM
[You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either.

Well here's the evidence for the College's finances being sound:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Annual_reports/Annual_Rep_08_09_lr.pdf

In addition, a fairly recent Ofsted inspection graded their financial position as 'outstanding', I believe.  So we know that the College is not disposing of the site because they are in any financial difficulty.

In answer to your question....
HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

... we don't KNOW anything for sure, but that outcome is so improbable that we can safely disregard it.  This is because the College can not afford to (indeed, would not be allowed to) close courses or deliberately reduce student numbers.  So they will not sell the site unless they can get enough money for it to build sufficient replacement accommodation on the Buxton Lane site.  And no-one would buy it for £12 million or any other significant sum and then let it become a wasteland.  I understand the point about the site being bought up to be a 'land bank', but AFAIK that is usually done as a 'blocking move', when a big supermarket chain (e.g. Asda) buys up land to stop another big chain (e.g. Tesco) from opening up in competition with them.  The only supermarket in that position round here would be the Co-op.  Can anyone see them doing that?  Me neither......    ;)

Where I do agree with you, finetime, is here:
We can't know for sure until we see agreement details but what has probably occurred is that Asda have bought it subject to obtaining PP and if they don't get it ownership reverts back to MCSFC.

Asda might know something about.tesco .          we don't who bought all that land at hawk green just past the green on the left . Recently been sold
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: mabel on February 22, 2012, 11:05:36 PM

Are you referring to the financial report for the year ending July 31st 2009 - surely a bit out of date by now?  Could you post a link to the more recent OFSTED report which said it was 'outstanding'?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on February 23, 2012, 08:05:51 AM
It's not escaped my attention  with the pictures outside the college with the campaign 'THINK AGAIN' do they think we are fools ?


Maybe they just feel that Hibbert Lane isn't suitable for a big supermarket. They seem damned if they do & damned if they don't.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 23, 2012, 10:17:05 AM
Are you referring to the financial report for the year ending July 31st 2009 - surely a bit out of date by now?  Could you post a link to the more recent OFSTED report which said it was 'outstanding'?

Sorry, it wasn't an Ofsted it was a YPLA audit - so many quangos   ::).  Here's a reference to it in the college's most recent statement about its plans:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/cmsfc-about.asp?AboID=90

As you see, it includes the following: 'The managers of the College [achieved] excellence in financial management from “Young People’s Learning Agency” (YPLA) in a recent audit.'

What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission?

Nothing.  The college will simply soldier on as best they can in the present Hibbert Lane buildings.    I reckon the best they can hope for in his eventuality is that they could sell off part of the car park and green space for housing, which might raise a million?   That could be put to good use doing some relatively minor extensions and improvements to their existing estate, but it's nowhere near enough for them to be able to fully replace the Hibbert Lane buildings, which are outdated and unsuitable.  It was built eighty years ago as a secondary school - very different layout and requirements compared with the 21st century curriculum of a 6th form college, needless to say.  And they will have to divert precious (and diminishing) funds to repairing, heating and maintaining inefficient premises - funds which ought to be used for teaching our youngsters. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on February 23, 2012, 10:21:05 AM

Are you referring to the financial report for the year ending July 31st 2009 - surely a bit out of date by now?  Could you post a link to the more recent OFSTED report which said it was 'outstanding'?
See:
http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/130515 (http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/130515)
You probably require the October 2009 report. The later one is in a limited area only (although MiA still felt like lobbying it).

I think the grades are more "Satisfactory" than "Outstanding" - but they are better than Marple Hall's.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 23, 2012, 10:35:56 AM
Dave,

Thanks for your efforts Dave, greatly appreciated.

As with most of the time you put forward a clear logical opinion.
 
I'm trying to resist taking a narrow, entrenched point of view but nevertheless, can't say that I'm convinced that we're not heading for an abandoned site in 1 to 3 years if Asda pull out. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on February 23, 2012, 11:05:22 AM

Hibbert Lane buildings, which are outdated and unsuitable.  It was built eighty years ago as a secondary school - very different layout and requirements compared with the 21st century curriculum of a 6th form college, needless to say.  And they will have to divert precious (and diminishing) funds to repairing, heating and maintaining inefficient premises - funds which ought to be used for teaching our youngsters. 

I know you feel it's needless to say but I had to pop into the place a few months ago and I thought it was fine. All double glazed, ceilings pretty high and classrooms / lecture theatres were not unlike that at any university.

I suspect this inefficient building is a bad excuse for poor performance. Students do pretty well at Oxbridge and those buildings are not brand new.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 23, 2012, 11:12:21 AM
Hi just thought I would jog a few peoples memories.  CAMSFC were offered 9.5 million for the site from a company who were going to put a small supermarket and a housing development on the site.  I am unsure where the idea of only 1 million for housing has come from  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 23, 2012, 12:14:31 PM
I am unsure where the idea of only 1 million for housing has come from  :-\

I seem to recall some time ago that we were told that the entire site was valued at about £4 million if used just for housing. So I was guesstimating that if they sold off part of the car park and the green space they might get a million for it? 

Students do pretty well at Oxbridge and those buildings are not brand new.

Duke, you do provide good entertainment value   ;D.   The colleges of Oxford and Cambridge are some of the wealthiest organisations in the UK.  Trinity College Cambridge alone has a financial endowment of £700 million.  It owns the port of Felixstowe, Cambridge Science Park, and part of the O2 Arena.   Like many other Oxbridge colleges it occupies Grade 1 listed buldings of enormous historical and architectural importance.  And it has more than enough money to maintain them in the manner to which they have become accustomed over the centuries.

The idea that a small local sixth form college, occupying a converted pre-war secondary modern school  building, could be compared in any way with that is hilarious!  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 23, 2012, 12:39:09 PM
Hi just thought I would jog a few peoples memories.  CAMSFC were offered 9.5 million for the site from a company who were going to put a small supermarket and a housing development on the site.  I am unsure where the idea of only 1 million for housing has come from  :-\

You've jogged my memory into amnesia cos I don't remember this - where, when and who?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 23, 2012, 12:44:04 PM
Duke,

Oxford, Cambridge and Marple College, bless you! Not a comparison that immediately springs to mind - wouldn't you agree?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 23, 2012, 01:46:51 PM
For those who like political intrigue Council Committee mini - reshuffle tonight. Place going on Planning Commitee. Town Hall Mole tells me Marple Mafia are chasing it.

Asda NO camp take note. SA & MC succumbing to pressure of election and pressure from MIA (MIA fantastic at raising public awareness but political savvy of heavyweight boxer) have contaminated beyond repair their vote via PREDETEMINATION SO  THEY'RE USELESS. CW same problem.

SI current AC chair so a bit messy. AB - maybe but might put his foot in his mouth, its a trait of his. If it's KD THEN I think that the NO'S can safely say that all local Councillors are in the NO camp - do you understand why Miss Marple and MIA? If you don't then its too difficult for me to explain.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 23, 2012, 03:06:01 PM
One of the councillors is for a supermarket on Hibbert Lane to prevent a hotel being built on the site.The councillor does not want any competition to his/her business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 23, 2012, 03:44:22 PM
Mrs O

Could easily be true. No different than the local butcher or greengrocer not wanting Asda. You can't blame them and you couldn't blame the Councillor.

I have to say though you would think that being a Councillor, the Councillor would know that the chances of any developer coming forward to build a hotel on that site (UNLESS HE IS HAPPY TO LOSE ALL HIS MONEY VERY QUICKLY) are very remote. 

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 23, 2012, 04:11:02 PM
For those who like political intrigue Council Committee mini - reshuffle tonight. Place going on Planning Commitee. Town Hall Mole tells me Marple Mafia are chasing it.

Asda NO camp take note. SA & MC succumbing to pressure of election and pressure from MIA (MIA fantastic at raising public awareness but political savvy of heavyweight boxer) have contaminated beyond repair their vote via PREDETEMINATION SO  THEY'RE USELESS. CW same problem.

SI current AC chair so a bit messy. AB - maybe but might put his foot in his mouth, its a trait of his. If it's KD THEN I think that the NO'S can safely say that all local Councillors are in the NO camp - do you understand why Miss Marple and MIA? If you don't then its too difficult for me to explain.


What are you going on about .its going to be left as a land bank .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on February 23, 2012, 04:14:56 PM
Quote
For those who like political intrigue Council Committee mini - reshuffle tonight. Place going on Planning Commitee. Town Hall Mole tells me Marple Mafia are chasing it.

Asda NO camp take note. SA & MC succumbing to pressure of election and pressure from MIA (MIA fantastic at raising public awareness but political savvy of heavyweight boxer) have contaminated beyond repair their vote via PREDETEMINATION SO  THEY'RE USELESS. CW same problem.

SI current AC chair so a bit messy. AB - maybe but might put his foot in his mouth, its a trait of his. If it's KD THEN I think that the NO'S can safely say that all local Councillors are in the NO camp - do you understand why Miss Marple and MIA? If you don't then its too difficult for me to explain.


I know I'm going on in years but can anyone please translate this into readable English so then I might be able to understand it!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 23, 2012, 05:21:53 PM
Be my guest:

SA = Councillor Shan Alexander   
MC = Councillor Martin Candler 
MIA = Marple in Action  (a local anti-supermarket campaign)
CW = Councillor Craig Wright
SI = Councillor Susan Ingham
AB = Councillor Andrew Bispham 
KD = Councillor Kevin Dowling 

Loose translation: by declaring themselves in advance to be against the college's plans, our local councillors have effectively debarred themselves from being involved in considering the planning applications.  Whoops!   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 23, 2012, 05:52:29 PM
Duke,

Oxford, Cambridge and Marple College, bless you! Not a comparison that immediately springs to mind - wouldn't you agree?
I know what Duke Fame means and I am sure you do really ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 23, 2012, 06:09:09 PM
For those who like political intrigue Council Committee mini - reshuffle tonight. Place going on Planning Commitee. Town Hall Mole tells me Marple Mafia are chasing it.

Asda NO camp take note. SA & MC succumbing to pressure of election and pressure from MIA (MIA fantastic at raising public awareness but political savvy of heavyweight boxer) have contaminated beyond repair their vote via PREDETEMINATION SO  THEY'RE USELESS. CW same problem.

SI current AC chair so a bit messy. AB - maybe but might put his foot in his mouth, its a trait of his. If it's KD THEN I think that the NO'S can safely say that all local Councillors are in the NO camp - do you understand why Miss Marple and MIA? If you don't then its too difficult for me to explain.


Very condsecending post!I don't think Miss Marple or MIA need you to explain anything >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 23, 2012, 06:42:47 PM
Thank  you Mrs O !  but I will have to be honest at first sight without my glasses I thought it was in  Lithuanian but then with my glasses on it still looked like a post from a Lithuanian overseas member of the forum.   But after texting nearly the whole of Marple I found someone to explain what it meant    So thank you Finetime but please remember I am a simple gal and need spoon feeding such complicated information. But welcome to the site your impute is enthralling   :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 23, 2012, 07:46:00 PM
Thank  you Mrs O !  but I will have to be honest at first sight without my glasses I thought it was in  Lithuanian but then with my glasses on it still looked like a post from a Lithuanian overseas member of the forum.   But after texting nearly the whole of Marple I found someone to explain what it meant    So thank you Finetime but please remember I am a simple gal and need spoon feeding such complicated information. But welcome to the site your impute is enthralling   :-\

Brilliant reply miss marple you see we do agree some time .keep smiling  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 24, 2012, 11:54:27 AM
What are you going on about .its going to be left as a land bank .
[/quote]


Have you taken to the sup Amazon ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 24, 2012, 11:57:11 AM
Be my guest:

SA = Councillor Shan Alexander   
MC = Councillor Martin Candler 
MIA = Marple in Action  (a local anti-supermarket campaign)
CW = Councillor Craig Wright
SI = Councillor Susan Ingham
AB = Councillor Andrew Bispham 
KD = Councillor Kevin Dowling 

Loose translation: by declaring themselves in advance to be against the college's plans, our local councillors have effectively debarred themselves from being involved in considering the planning applications.  Whoops!   


Thanks for the translation Dave: Spot on as well. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 24, 2012, 01:09:57 PM
Good - Morning Miss Marple.

It's The Lithuanian here. Actually I quite like that handle - I might adopt it.

Thought that you might like to know that at last night's Council Meeting - Councillor Kevin Dowling was elected unopposed to a seat on Central Panning (freudian mis-spelling)  Committee. Councillor KEV's appointment leads us to some interesting, political speculation about the ASDA - but we'll leave that for the moment.  

Permit me to engage with you on the "political savvy" that I referred to yesterday.

First of all please do not misunderstand me, for on the issue of ASDA I make no claim to be your friend but neither do I claim to be your enemy either. You may find this difficult to understand but I am sympathetic (at the moment) to both the YES and THE NO Camps.

What I do admire, unreservedly is the sefless way that you and your colleagues/supporters in MIA have worked tirelessly to raise public awareness in the community, to a crescendo, for a cause that you believe in with a passion. What is also emphatically true is your assertion that if you had not done so then this situation would have been managed in a clandestine way by our "elders and betters"  (certainly by SOME of our politicians)  and athough it is unlikely that something as big as this could have been kept a secret until the diggers were on site. It would most certainly have been kept quiet until both after the forthcoming May election and until after the planning application was at an advanced stage.

...For the moment I WILL PAUSE....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 24, 2012, 11:29:12 PM
KD words fail me !  But I hope to be proved wrong  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 25, 2012, 03:48:26 PM
KD words fail me !  But I hope to be proved wrong  :-\

If you think about it and if Marple wanted a voice on the H & P their wasn't really any other choice was there?

Let me tell you what should have happened if the No Campaigners in general and MIA in particular had been more politic nouse.

1/ Asda's application would have come to AC with a recommendation by Council Planners to refuse.
2/ Local Concillors support recommendation - probaly unanimously.
3/ Application doesn't need to go to H & P Central Committee for adjudication -NO DISAGREEMENT NO NEED.
ASDA can still/ and will appeal to inspector but local case is strong and no chance of it being overturned at Central Planning which is a cross party/cross ward Committee where a lot of political back biting and score settling can go on and particularly where there is no affection for Marple.

.....TO BE CONTINUED

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 25, 2012, 05:06:52 PM
Condescending post overwritten. Admin.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 25, 2012, 11:57:04 PM
Continuing; 2

What actually happened was this.

MIA furious at the prospect of this "Supermarket" and totally ignorant in the nuances of the planning process, as part of its NO CAMPAIGN set about political intimidation of local Councillors. This involved such things as visiting Councillors in their surgeries in Marple Public Library and threatening various political tactics unless Councillors publicly joined the NO CAMPAIGN - it has to be said here that MIA were completely oblivious to "contamination of vote by pre-determination" but Councillors being Councillors were not - nor at least should not have been. At least three Councillors were threatened in this way at their public surgeries. They were SA, MC AND KD. What then followed is of course  a matter of record as Councillors; Alexander & Candler quickly caved in followed by Councillor Wright. We can only assume that Cllr KD did not.

In the ensuing months these three Councillors would denounce the Supermarket at every opportunity. This would include making verbal statements at the extraordinary AC, a convention recorded on CCTV, speaking at MIA rallies - and also providing written statements at the written behest of MIA.

In doing so they have contaminated their view by pre-determination in a completety, irrevocable and unprecendented way and have disqualified themseves from playing any part whatsoever in the planning process for the Hibbert Lane Supermarket.

Why have they behaved in such a way?.....TO BE CONTINUED...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 26, 2012, 12:42:16 AM
WRONG !!!   The councillors jumped on the MIA band wagon and could not wait to vote against a supermarket.  Now I have always smelt a rat with some councillors  jumping ship and climbing on board MIA   I have not quite worked  it out yet, but Hey I Will !!!  I think it's what they call damage limitation by some of our councillors.   The truth will soon be out !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on February 26, 2012, 07:37:31 AM
Has anyone within the 'no' community - or even the 'undecided' [the 'not bothered' would naturally be excluded!] discussed the nuances of a 'new' supermarket in Marple with counterparts/ friends/ colleagues who live in Glossop or Poynton, both of which remain vibrant despite or because of the fact that they have several large retail outlets sitting alongside smaller shops? Different towns, different local challenges yes - but only to a degree.

There must be lessons to be learnt from the similar machinations which undoubtedly accompanied the pre-planning and rumour-laden periods before both Glossop Tesco and Poynton Waitrose saw the light of day, whatever one's persuasions regarding the Marple issue.

It would be interesting to get a perspective from someone from either of those communities I would suggest.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on February 26, 2012, 08:59:41 AM
Quote
discussed the nuances of a 'new' supermarket in Marple with counterparts/ friends/ colleagues who live in Glossop or Poynton, both of which remain vibrant
I haven't heard anyone from Glossop or Ponton who think that the new supermarket developments in these towns have beneficial. In fact I've spoken to a number of people who use to shop there who now travel to Marple instead.
Also both Glossop and Poynton from a traffic point of view have become NO GO areas.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on February 26, 2012, 09:10:55 AM
Quote
MIA furious at the prospect of this "Supermarket" and totally ignorant in the nuances of the planning process, as part of its NO CAMPAIGN set about political intimidation of local Councillors. This involved such things as visiting Councillors in their surgeries in Marple Public Library and threatening various political tactics unless Councillors publicly joined the NO CAMPAIGN
I think from your last post you have now divulged your identity, and may be using this forum to promote your own personal business issues. If you have evidence of intimidation please divulge it to the rest of the forum.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 26, 2012, 10:27:38 AM
I haven't heard anyone from Glossop or Ponton who think that the new supermarket developments in these towns have beneficial. In fact I've spoken to a number of people who use to shop there who now travel to Marple instead.

The Glossop Tesco has been there for donkey's years!  And there are more (and, IMO, generally better) local shops there than there are in Marple.  So why would anyone from Glossop have suddenly stopped shopping there and brought their custom to Marple?  It makes no sense!

both Glossop and Poynton from a traffic point of view have become NO GO areas.

The traffic problems in Poynton are because of the long term road works, as you must surely know, Victor. 

People we know who live in Poynton are delighted to have Waitrose, and say that as a result there are more people shopping in the village than there used to be. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on February 26, 2012, 12:43:53 PM
Finetime,What on earth has rattled your cage since you registered on the Forum 12 days ago?You make some serious allegations about bullying?How can a few people bully and intimidate the councillors?What could these people possibly threaten them with?MIA are not a political organisation and those councillors are not fit for purpose if they cannot stand their ground.It is laughable!You Quote In doing so they have contaminated their view by pre-determination in a completety, irrevocable and unprecendented way and have disqualified themseves from playing any part whatsoever in the planning process for the Hibbert Lane Supermarket.Of course they know that, it was mentioned a long time ago and is of no concern to MIA.Who are just a bunch of people who are fighting against,in theirs and many other peoples opinion, the destruction of Marple town centre,the disruption to people whose homes surround the Hibbert Lane site and the Buxton Lane site and also increased traffic.Why don't you tell us more about yourself? ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on February 26, 2012, 01:08:53 PM
Duke,

Oxford, Cambridge and Marple College, bless you! Not a comparison that immediately springs to mind - wouldn't you agree?

I would agree and that's ,y point. It's down to the quality of lecturers & students not the bricks & mortar
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on February 26, 2012, 02:06:14 PM
I love it   :D  It's like saying the only difference between Fortnum and Mason and, say, Aldi, is the quality of the staff and customers.   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on February 26, 2012, 02:30:32 PM
I love it   :D  It's like saying the only difference between Fortnum and Mason and, say, Aldi, is the quality of the staff and customers.   ;D

I've never been to F&M!

What makes a great place to learn? Great teachers, a great curriculum and most of all, really clever and ambitious peers. Elton Mayo discovered that surroundings made little difference.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 26, 2012, 02:32:16 PM
Continuing; 2

What actually happened was this.

MIA furious at the prospect of this "Supermarket" and totally ignorant in the nuances of the planning process, as part of its NO CAMPAIGN set about political intimidation of local Councillors. This involved such things as visiting Councillors in their surgeries in Marple Public Library and threatening various political tactics unless Councillors publicly joined the NO CAMPAIGN - it has to be said here that MIA were completely oblivious to "contamination of vote by pre-determination" but Councillors being Councillors were not - nor at least should not have been. At least three Councillors were threatened in this way at their public surgeries. They were SA, MC AND KD. What then followed is of course  a matter of record as Councillors; Alexander & Candler quickly caved in followed by Councillor Wright. We can only assume that Cllr KD did not.

In the ensuing months these three Councillors would denounce the Supermarket at every opportunity. This would include making verbal statements at the extraordinary AC, a convention recorded on CCTV, speaking at MIA rallies - and also providing written statements at the written behest of MIA.

In doing so they have contaminated their view by pre-determination in a completety, irrevocable and
unprecendented way and have disqualified themseves from playing any part whatsoever in the planning process for the Hibbert Lane Supermarket.

Why have they behaved in such a way?.....TO BE CONTINUED...
Oh dear Finetime you have dropped a bit of a mess and political b*****k  there haven't you.  I can assure you that I have never been to councillor surgery and for your information the 3 councillors that you name all came to the first ever MIA meeting back in June !    Now you are one of three people ! Now let me think ???  Is your partner a council member  ???? Or are you a member of a certain group  ???or are you the person that thinks they can develop MARPLE single handed and reap all the  rewards without consultation  ???  Oh now let me think this one over
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 26, 2012, 05:37:09 PM
I might be wrong here, but I thought MIA effectively publically challenged the local councillors and the MP to come out in support of the group and attend the public rally (if not, its the impression that I got from the various statements on this board). That potentially put the Councillors between a rock and a hard place didn't it? If they didn't come out in support, they would have been lambasted and they knew it, but in so doing it effectively means that they can't now argue that they would give any future planning application due consideration. Which is a shame as the application will now probably be considered / determined by non Marple councillors.

I guess it was always going to work out like that though and I can see the benefit of the strongest possible local campaign for MIA.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 26, 2012, 05:54:31 PM
I might be wrong here, but I thought MIA effectively publically challenged the local councillors and the MP to come out in support of the group and attend the public rally (if not, its the impression that I got from the various statements on this board). That potentially put the Councillors between a rock and a hard place didn't it? If they didn't come out in support, they would have been lambasted and they knew it, but in so doing it effectively means that they can't now argue that they would give any future planning application due consideration. Which is a shame as the application will now probably be considered / determined by non Marple councillors.

I guess it was always going to work out like that though and I can see the benefit of the strongest possible local campaign for MIA.

No Belly you could not be further from the truth!  Our first ever MIA meeting was held in June and all interested people who had read this thread on the forum sent me a PM and attended a meeting.  Councillors also attended this meeting and informed us that they knew nothing about the sale of CAMSFC to a supermarket, which seems a little strange as one of the Councillors was Shan Alexander who was a governour at the college when they first started their talks with land buyers.  As I have said before some councillors jumped before the truth was out IE they did not want to vote against something that they possibly once supported and kept secret from the community.  It's politics with a small p and it stinks and the people of MARPLE need to know the truth  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on February 26, 2012, 06:57:28 PM
Happy to be put straight!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on February 26, 2012, 07:54:41 PM
Quote
discussed the nuances of a 'new' supermarket in Marple with counterparts/ friends/ colleagues who live in Glossop or Poynton, both of which remain vibrant
I haven't heard anyone from Glossop or Ponton who think that the new supermarket developments in these towns have beneficial. In fact I've spoken to a number of people who use to shop there who now travel to Marple instead.
Also both Glossop and Poynton from a traffic point of view have become NO GO areas.

The Glossop traffic NO GO issue is nothing to do with the Tesco, or any of the other shops, it's simply because the main road through the centre of Glossop is the A57, AKA the Snake Pass, one of the two main routes from Greater Manchester over to Sheffield. The traffic in the centre of Glossop was noticeably absent during the recent cold snaps, when the Pass was closed.

And as for Poynton, isn't the main route through there the main artery linking Macclesfield to Stockport/Manchester?

Both towns had major traffic problems prior to the supermarkets, and would continue to have them long after were they ever to shut.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 26, 2012, 07:54:47 PM
Oh and another thing ! Andrew Stunnall (mp) Shan Alexander and Martin Candler had their picture taken with that now famous slogan " Think Again " outside the college before MIA had even spoken to Andrew Stunnall so Finetimefontaine you really needs to get up to speed before you try to discredit MIA   Word to the wise ! Don't believe the hype.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on February 26, 2012, 08:07:39 PM
At the 1st public meeting SMBC officials actually stated that as this potential development would be so big (and they had had pre-planning meetings by then) that the application would never go to the local area committee, it would be pulled and go straight to Full council. So what's all the winging about?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on February 26, 2012, 08:09:47 PM
Quote
The Glossop traffic NO GO issue is nothing to do with the Tesco, or any of the other shops, it's simply because the main road through the centre of Glossop is the A57, AKA the Snake Pass, one of the two main routes from Greater Manchester over to Sheffield.
How come then on a Sunday, once you manage to get past the lights where Tesco is the traffic miraculously disappears?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on February 26, 2012, 09:50:05 PM
Because Tesco is open on a Sunday....and most of the smaller Glossop shops aren't  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on February 27, 2012, 07:03:37 AM
Quote
The Glossop traffic NO GO issue is nothing to do with the Tesco, or any of the other shops, it's simply because the main road through the centre of Glossop is the A57, AKA the Snake Pass, one of the two main routes from Greater Manchester over to Sheffield.
How come then on a Sunday, once you manage to get past the lights where Tesco is the traffic miraculously disappears?

Probably because it's a Sunday and so there's no commerical traffic over the Pass. Try going through Glossop at any other time as I find the traffic doesn't disappear until you get past the traffic lights in the centre of Glossop (which are the last set on the A57 until you get to the Ladybower Reservoir).

Glossop has the same traffic issues with the Snake as Hollingworth/Tintwhistle does with the Woodhead, shear volume of through traffic. And you certainly can't blame Hollingworth's problems on a Supermarket.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 27, 2012, 10:42:52 AM
Quote
I think from your last post you have now divulged your identity, and may be using this forum to promote your own personal business issues. If you have evidence of intimidation please divulge it to the rest of the forum.

Interesting observation Victor and although I would dearly love to be well known, I am afraid that you are on the wrong bus here! I doubt that my name would mean anything to the people of Marple. However, please feel most welcome in fact far as I am concerned please feel positively encouraged to guess, speculate or assume anything that you wish as this only adds to the intrigue - of which I am a fan - but most of all please be patient - I have a busy week out of town for part of this week but upon my return there is much more of my essay to come.          
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 27, 2012, 10:58:03 AM
WRONG !!!   The councillors jumped on the MIA band wagon and could not wait to vote against a supermarket.  Now I have always smelt a rat with some councillors  jumping ship and climbing on board MIA   I have not quite worked  it out yet, but Hey I Will !!!  I think it's what they call damage limitation by some of our councillors.   The truth will soon be out !

Dear Miss Marple, Considering that you purport to be a "Community Leader" your innocence and politiical naivette is almost beguiling.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on February 27, 2012, 11:17:56 AM
Finetime,What on earth has rattled your cage since you registered on the Forum 12 days ago?You make some serious allegations about bullying?How can a few people bully and intimidate the councillors?What could these people possibly threaten them with?MIA are not a political organisation and those councillors are not fit for purpose if they cannot stand their ground.It is laughable!You Quote In doing so they have contaminated their view by pre-determination in a completety, irrevocable and unprecendented way and have disqualified themseves from playing any part whatsoever in the planning process for the Hibbert Lane Supermarket.Of course they know that, it was mentioned a long time ago and is of no concern to MIA.Who are just a bunch of people who are fighting against,in theirs and many other peoples opinion, the destruction of Marple town centre,the disruption to people whose homes surround the Hibbert Lane site and the Buxton Lane site and also increased traffic.Why don't you tell us more about yourself? ;)

Dear Mrs O,
I agee with much (not all) of what you say Councillors deserve to be criticised as much as the leadership of MIA and they will be. Please distinguish between the "leaders of MIA and the ordinary people of Marple - they are not one and the same. I am just an ordinary person who is a bit closer to the action than many of those who think they are....please be patient...



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 27, 2012, 11:23:24 AM
WRONG !!!   The councillors jumped on the MIA band wagon and could not wait to vote against a supermarket.  Now I have always smelt a rat with some councillors  jumping ship and climbing on board MIA   I have not quite worked  it out yet, but Hey I Will !!!  I think it's what they call damage limitation by some of our councillors.   The truth will soon be out !

Dear Miss Marple, Considering that you purport to be a "Community Leader" your innocence and politiical naivette is almost beguiling.
It takes me all my time to support myself !  I purport to be nothing more than a messenger, an informed one at that !  And please do not insult my intelligence, I act this way as not to insult yours  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on February 27, 2012, 11:30:47 AM
[quote I think from your last post you have now divulged your identity, and may be using this forum to promote your own personal business issues. If you have evidence of intimidation please divulge it to the rest of the forum.

Interesting observation Victor and although I would dearly love to be well known, I am afraid that you are on the wrong bus here! I doubt that my name would mean anything to the people of Marple. However, please feel most welcome in fact far as I am concerned please feel positively encouraged to guess, speculate or assume anything that you wish as this only adds to the intrigue - of which I am a fan - but most of all please be patient - I have a busy week out of town for part of this week but upon my return there is much more of my essay to come.        

  
Have you not got an iPhone or iPad as I fear I may not be able to contain myself for that length of time  :D  Hey keep it short when you do pop up again,  we don't want War and Peace !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 27, 2012, 02:00:22 PM
The swimming pool, just like the library, or even the cinema, is one of those amenities that very few people use yet there is an outcry whenever there is suggestion one may close.

Personally, I think it would be advantageous to have just one swimming pool and library is Stockport town centre and none others in the borough - council tax would go right down!

I don't mind the college being demolished but a new large supermarket seems a bit OTT for this area - more council housing would be a better addition to the area.
. So the elderly people have to go to Stockport to use a library I don't think so .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on February 27, 2012, 02:04:25 PM
Quote
The Glossop traffic NO GO issue is nothing to do with the Tesco, or any of the other shops, it's simply because the main road through the centre of Glossop is the A57, AKA the Snake Pass, one of the two main routes from Greater Manchester over to Sheffield.
How come then on a Sunday, once you manage to get past the lights where Tesco is the traffic miraculously disappears?

Probably because it's a Sunday and so there's no commerical traffic over the Pass. Try going through Glossop at any other time as I find the traffic doesn't disappear until you get past the traffic lights in the centre of Glossop (which are the last set on the A57 until you get to the Ladybower Reservoir).

Glossop has the same traffic issues with the Snake as Hollingworth/Tintwhistle does with the Woodhead, shear volume of through traffic. And you certainly can't blame Hollingworth's problems on a Supermarket.

All ways been like that even before a supermarket they sayif  your not out of Glossop before 7.30 in a morning you will be late for work
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 01, 2012, 01:32:29 PM
Hello Miss M, apologies for my delayed response to your posting but I've been out of town for a few days - no computer access.

You really need to read these postings carefully before you start shooting from the lip - sorry hip. I didn't actually say that YOU went to Councillors' surgeries in fact I know that YOU PERSONALLY didn't. The record will show that what I said was that MIA did - which they did.

Anyway the point to this is that Local Councillors and MIA have held hands together and deprived local democracy from having any kind of say one way or another in the ASDA planning application. It doesn't really matter whether Councillors jumped on MIA's bandwagon what does matter is that it was provided by MIA in the first place and in the second place they were practically heaved upon it by MIA. It would have been far more representative of the Marple Community if Local Councillors and MIA had understood about pre-determination and then Councillors could have kept their powder dry until the Planning App comes in. So you are both to blame as much as each other.

In fact you have helped ASDA come to town instead of deterring it. MIA by behaving in such a way has nullified the efforts of the marches and rallies of the ordinary people of MARPLE - well it would have done if Asda take any notice of popular opinion - which they don't of course!

Oh! by the way - identities, as I've said before, I'll leave you to speculate on that - have as many guesses as you like - it really has no relevance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 01, 2012, 02:10:46 PM
Quote
All ways been like that even before a supermarket they sayif  your not out of Glossop before 7.30 in a morning you will be late for work


My sister lives in Glossop - has done since 1981. She works in Manchester City Centre. Most days she uses the train but ocassionally she has to go in by car. When she does she leaves home at 7-15am to be certain of being in for 9am. She's been doing that for years - long before Tesco came to town.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on March 01, 2012, 03:08:42 PM

My sister lives in Glossop - has done since 1981. She works in Manchester City Centre. Most days she uses the train but ocassionally she has to go in by car. When she does she leaves home at 7-15am to be certain of being in for 9am. She's been doing that for years - long before Tesco came to town.

That's what I said in my posting .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 01, 2012, 03:31:49 PM


That's what I said in my posting .



THAT'S AMAZING AMAZON - MUST BE SOME KIND OF TELEPATHIC TOGETHERNESS.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 01, 2012, 11:41:21 PM
Hi Finetime I find your analysis amusing, it has brought some humour into my politically naive life, so for that I thank you !    Lol  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2012, 07:46:44 AM
It doesn't really matter whether Councillors jumped on MIA's bandwagon what does matter is that it was provided by MIA in the first place and in the second place they were practically heaved upon it by MIA.
Indeed - and many of us watched it happen at the 'party in the park' last July!

In fact you have helped ASDA come to town instead of deterring it. MIA by behaving in such a way has nullified the efforts of the marches and rallies of the ordinary people of MARPLE - well it would have done if Asda take any notice of popular opinion - which they don't of course!

I don't speak for MIA - far from it - but I always thought the marches and rallies were aimed at the college, not Asda? 

Whatever - as you say, finetime, Asda would never take any notice of such protests, and so far, thank goodness, neither has the college.  Only our councillors have allowed themselves to be browbeaten by all the fuss and commotion - oh, and our MP, which was a surprise and a disappointment - I expected better than that from him.    :(

As for 'popular opinion', we don't know what that is, yet. If you talk to friends and neighbours about this, as we all do, opinions seem to be divided.  Some are strongly opposed, some are strongly in favour, but my totally unscientific impression is that a lot of sensible people are waiting until they can see the proposals before they rush to judgement.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on March 02, 2012, 09:19:57 AM
I agree Dave, people are waiting for specific proposals before making up their minds.  And on a lighter note - are we declaring at 100 pages??? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 02, 2012, 09:40:56 AM
I think it should be up to Miss M to declare a cease-fire   ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 02, 2012, 03:59:47 PM
 
As for 'popular opinion', we don't know what that is, yet. If you talk to friends and neighbours about this, as we all do, opinions seem to be divided.  Some are strongly opposed, some are strongly in favour, but my totally unscientific impression is that a lot of sensible people are waiting until they can see the proposals before they rush to judgement.

When I say popular opinion, I don't necessarily mean that the  "most" popular opinion is in the NO camp. For I agree with you Dave - we don't really know which way the wind blows on that one. There may indeed be as many FOR as there are AGAINST - or even MORE FOR than there are AGAINST. I accept that if you consider the petition that the NO camp seems to be bigger, but these petitions are inconclusive and at the moment many of these signatories are against the "idea" - they are not sure about the substance as nobody yet knows what that substance is.

Personally, I will wait until some plans and some sequential test results come into view before my mind is made up and I expect that many hold the same view.  Let's just see what comes to the table.

       
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 02, 2012, 04:20:07 PM
Hi Finetime I find your analysis amusing, it has brought some humour into my politically naive life, so for that I thank you !    Lol  :D

Thank you Miss Marple, your comments are indeed gracious.

There is one small question though, it is perhaps an example of MY OWN naivety....call me old-fashioned, I don't mind but I have never really been able to keep up with the Americanization of the English Language. To my deep chagrin I have never even watched one part of an episode of "Friends" nor have I seen the same of "Hannah Montana" or is it "Savannah"....apologies, I don't really know.

 Anyway, I have heard several versions of this acronym....but what actually does LOl mean?           
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: heather on March 02, 2012, 04:36:47 PM
laugh out loud
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on March 02, 2012, 04:43:22 PM
Hi Finetime I find your analysis amusing, it has brought some humour into my politically naive life, so for that I thank you !    Lol  :D

Thank you Miss Marple, your comments are indeed gracious.

There is one small question though, it is perhaps an example of MY OWN naivety....call me old-fashioned, I don't mind but I have never really been able to keep up with the Americanization of the English Language. To my deep chagrin I have never even watched one part of an episode of "Friends" nor have I seen the same of "Hannah Montana" or is it "Savannah"....apologies, I don't really know.

 Anyway, I have heard several versions of this acronym....but what actually does LOl mean?          

Wish you would speak in English .or go for a walk it's lovely out side .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on March 02, 2012, 04:48:35 PM


That's what I said in my posting .



THAT'S AMAZING AMAZON - MUST BE SOME KIND OF TELEPATHIC TOGETHERNESS.

It's rude to shout .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 02, 2012, 05:32:14 PM
Hi Finetime I find your analysis amusing, it has brought some humour into my politically naive life, so for that I thank you !    Lol  :D

Thank you Miss Marple, your comments are indeed gracious.

There is one small question though, it is perhaps an example of MY OWN naivety....call me old-fashioned, I don't mind but I have never really been able to keep up with the Americanization of the English Language. To my deep chagrin I have never even watched one part of an episode of "Friends" nor have I seen the same of "Hannah Montana" or is it "Savannah"....apologies, I don't really know.
 Anyway, I have heard several versions of this acronym....but what actually does LOl mean?          
Strangely enough I don't watch TV, I find it boring, I'm more of a party animal, bingo , tea dances ,cheese and wine parties, Tupperware parties or bridge is my preferred recreation   !   Heather is correct it's Laugh out loud ! Or it could mean Love you Lots ! :-\   But in this case it's Laugh out loud  or when I am being really really crazy  I say OMG Lol   I'm just wild !
I'm just wild I am  ;)  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Barbara on March 02, 2012, 05:58:44 PM
You tend to make some of us wild too, Miss M! ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 05, 2012, 09:33:31 PM
Amazing! Tupperware parties,  Bridge clubs, fare dodging - I didn't realise that Marple was so charged with iniquities. What next drive by shootings and greek style orgies? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on March 05, 2012, 09:44:48 PM
Amazing! Tupperware parties,  Bridge clubs, fare dodging - I didn't realise that Marple was so charged with iniquities. What next drive by shootings and greek style orgies? 

Hopefully we won't have any more drive-by shootings in Marple. One was enough.

See http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bullets-halt-the-rise-of-a-northern-gangster-1415880.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bullets-halt-the-rise-of-a-northern-gangster-1415880.html)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 05, 2012, 10:12:31 PM
Meant as a joke Harry but I now realise may have been in bad taste -apologies.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on March 05, 2012, 10:16:47 PM
Accepted. You can buy me a drink at the next Greek orgy.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 05, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
Should we be interested in this?

We cannot know for sure what effect the Hibbert Lane ASDA will have on local businesses. Some believe that it will take customers away from the town centre and that the impact will be negative whilst others hold the opposite view. There are though two businesses in Marple that will decidedly benefit if ASDA comes to town. They will benefit from construction of the store, they will benefit after it is built and their benefit will be ongoing for as long as the store survives. Guess Who ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 06, 2012, 09:07:28 AM
Hawk Green chippy?   :P
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 06, 2012, 09:42:01 AM
Hawk Green chippy?   :P


I didn't actually think of that one -but you are right. O.k then 3 businesses.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on March 06, 2012, 12:02:34 PM
<Edited by Lisa.. off topic>
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on March 07, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Bottom line is - like practically all content about the alleged supermarket on this forum - there is a lack of any real data or objective analysis of what the impact of an alleged new business would do to the town. It all seems to descend into the same unfounded scaremongering which is actually counter-productive whatever one's supposed position!  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 08, 2012, 07:28:33 PM
Bottom line is - like practically all content about the alleged supermarket on this forum - there is a lack of any real data or objective analysis of what the impact of an alleged new business would do to the town. It all seems to descend into the same unfounded scaremongering which is actually counter-productive whatever one's supposed position!  :-\
Hi Heritage I wish it was an alleged supermarket on Hibbert Lane but sadly it is not.    I appreciate that this thread is far too long for you to read through but the reality is that I was one of very few people that was granted an audience with  Ms Cassidy (Principal CAMSFC) who informed me back in July that she was in talks with 2 Supermarkets !    So whatever else you may deem as scaremongering sadly the prospect of a supermarket is a reality and a big one at that. 8.5 acres of land is on the table so I hope you don't think it will be an ASDA express ! Oh silly me they don't do small do they  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on March 08, 2012, 07:48:16 PM
...but the fundamental point is, that no planning application has been submitted [as far as I am aware], and no structured consultation has been undertaken with anyone of real significance. Hence the supermarket is an alleged one. There is the possibility of one, but not the probability. And the fact remains that the postings on this topic portray Marple - taking the forum as a proxy for the populace - as a rather stuffy, fussy and old-fashioned place when it comes to the real challenges of change in society. When the lack of any real knowledge breaks down - as it seems to do at the end of every thread - then tired behaviours emerge again of slights, insults and prattle about fairly nondescript aspects of the 'debate'.... :(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 08, 2012, 09:15:15 PM
Heritage I agree with some points of what you say, but when you say them or call the process that has developed, please be mindful that if it had not been for MIA the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser.  Ms Cassidy and the corporation were outraged when staff leaked the information out to the public.  Did you have sight of the emails I posted on this site, which the college after taking legal advice asked admin to remove?  If you did then forgive me for repeating myself, but the contents of the emails were quite intimidating to staff members from Ms Cassidy. In one she wrote that she had been inundated with calls from the Town Hall, members of the public and other interested parties and as a result it had been decided that staff would not receive anymore information until the deal had been signed.
So Heritage you must forgive MIA for exposing this matter. Because we believe that staff, local shops, businesses and the residents living next to the two sites had a right to know.  I was given this information by a concerned staff member, what did you want me to do with it ? Act like Ms Cassidy and the corporation and try to deceive the people of Marple ?  Never I set higher standards for myself than that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on March 08, 2012, 11:36:09 PM
Heritage I agree with some points of what you say, but when you say them or call the process that has developed, please be mindful that if it had not been for MIA the people of MARPLE would be non the wiser.  Ms Cassidy and the corporation were outraged when staff leaked the information out to the public.  Did you have sight of the emails I posted on this site, which the college after taking legal advice asked admin to remove?  If you did then forgive me for repeating myself, but the contents of the emails were quite intimidating to staff members from Ms Cassidy. In one she wrote that she had been inundated with calls from the Town Hall, members of the public and other interested parties and as a result it had been decided that staff would not receive anymore information until the deal had been signed.
So Heritage you must forgive MIA for exposing this matter. Because we believe that staff, local shops, businesses and the residents living next to the two sites had a right to know.  I was given this information by a concerned staff member, what did you want me to do with it ? Act like Ms Cassidy and the corporation and try to deceive the people of Marple ?  Never I set higher standards for myself than that.
My only question on this is why do we 'have a right to know' what an individual or organisation is thinking / considering / planning? Is this the local thought police at work here?  :D

Ultimately if the college were considering selling (or perhaps more accurately 'optioning') their land to whoever and for whatever purpose, there is an argument that it was their business. Why must we know anything before a planning application was submitted? The whole point of the planning application process is that it is on submission of the application that full public consultation takes place, i.e. once there are facts on the table to consider and debate. There are no rules that say that the public must be informed as to what an individual or organisation might be thinking about doing months or years in advance of doing it.

Given that the information was leaked before CAMSFC had a plan in place to present (indeed before they even had a buyer for the land) I'm not surprised they were a little miffed that things got out and all hell broke loose. It precipitated them being asked lots of questions that they were not able to answer and had the result of winding the community up into a frenzy about a scheme that wasn't even a formal proposal.

I have no problem with MIA seeking to object to the concept of a supermarket at Hibbert Lane, but I do get tired of the constant accusations of skulduggery - when what it seems to amount to is the college being put in a very awkward position by some of its own employees when trying to 'plan' an option to secures it's future and then trying (rather awkwardly admittedly) to rescue the situation.

I have a lot of sympathy with a lot of things that Heritage has been saying over the last few days - don't waste all your ammo shooting wildly into the dark.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2012, 12:06:30 AM
Ultimately if the college were considering selling (or perhaps more accurately 'optioning') their land to whoever and for whatever purpose, there is an argument that it was their business. Why must we know anything before a planning application was submitted? The whole point of the planning application process is that it is on submission of the application that full public consultation takes place, i.e. once there are facts on the table to consider and debate.

This is a key point.  And there is also the issue of commercial sensitivity.  The college needed to conduct sensitive negotiations with various potential purchasers in a way that did not breach the necessary confidentiality of the process.  We cannot know at this point whether the leaks from staff actually caused any negotiations to be compromised, but there was always that danger. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 09, 2012, 12:29:40 AM
You like myself are entitled to your own opinion   But all I will say is , if it is such a flippin good idea why has
Ms Cassidy and her corporation refused to speak to residents around the site who are worried about increased noise, light and traffic pollution.  Why did 3 LOCAL governors  stand down in protest of the plans, that they HAD sight of. It all seems a little strange to me !  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on March 09, 2012, 10:32:43 AM
..... I hope you don't think it will be an ASDA express ! Oh silly me they don't do small do they  ???

What an odd thing to say!

ASDA are into small in a big way. And their smaller supermarkets charge exactly the same prices as their big superstores, unlike some other retailers.

The nearest small ASDA is in Poynton. See http://storelocator.asda.com/store/poynton (http://storelocator.asda.com/store/poynton)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 09, 2012, 11:16:25 AM
..... I hope you don't think it will be an ASDA express ! Oh silly me they don't do small do they  ???

What an odd thing to say!

ASDA are into small in a big way. And their smaller supermarkets charge exactly the same prices as their big superstores, unlike some other retailers.

The nearest small ASDA is in Poynton. See http://storelocator.asda.com/store/poynton (http://storelocator.asda.com/store/poynton)

My god it will look lost on 8.5 acres.   :-X  I doubt they will  be paying  13 million to build a store of that size!   Do you ?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on March 09, 2012, 11:35:57 AM
Expending all this emotional energy on a debate ahead of any proper public consultation will - my opinion only of course! - merely lead to a less effective consultative process come the day. People will have become so entrenched, opinionated or exhausted by months and months of 'debate' that it will be difficult to grant a fair assessment of the situation. Whatever people may have discovered - whether or not they are annoyed by any supposed lack of 'transparency' - about an alleged supermarket, the consultation process will happen if it is going to happen. And that may be years....YEARS...away. So - to those who are energised now by this fairly spurious debate I would say - arm yourselves with Pro-Plus...you have month after month after month of forum posts to write....and then it'll all have to start from scratch in an objective consultation.  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2012, 11:40:57 AM
why has Ms Cassidy and her corporation refused to speak to residents around the site who are worried about increased noise, light and traffic pollution.

Because they have been forced by the aggressive opposition into a sort of 'bunker mentality'.  I agree that they should have consulted with neighbouring residents at a much earlier stage, and they will no doubt now be regretting that they didn't have the political sense to do that when the idea was first mooted.  At that stage it would not have compromised any negotiations, as long as no specific purchaser was mentioned.  However, they are now in a totally defensive posture, and all they can do for the moment is tough it out.  However, once the planning process becomes public, they will have to come out of the bunker and deal with it.  But that will be a bit easier when there are detailed plans available, and when they can show people what the college's new facilities might look like. 

 
 Why did 3 LOCAL governors  stand down in protest of the plans, that they HAD sight of. It all seems a little strange to me !  

Presumably because they regard the impact on neighbouring properties, and maybe on traffic flow too, as too serious to justify the benefits to the college.  That's a perfectly reasonable point of view.  I don't agree with it, but I should have though you would, Miss M, so what's 'strange' about it?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 09, 2012, 02:21:16 PM
It's all right for you Heritage, you've only been debating this a couple of weeks. Most of the posters on here have been at it months -years even. Dave and Miss M have been writing to each other about the Hibbert Lane ASDA virtually all their adult lives. No offence but most of the things that your are saying have been said ten times over previously.

What did you say..."expending emotional energy"...well I told you about the APP from MOP...but you laughed...well that's exactly the process that's going on now -exactly as you describe. You're not the APP are you ? You wouldn't tell me anyway would you?      

What did you say..."consultation process"! Heritage this is Stockport MBC we're dealing with here - I think that you'll find that their definition of "consultation" and yours are a little at variance. Yours is probably; Provide the information, ask for views, take them into account then act accordingly. Theirs is similar -well three out of four isn't bad.

Coincidentally though, there is a late development here, which if my information is correct would probably explain why ASDA have not yet put in a planning application.  It may well be that when it comes to the planning app it won't be under the jurisdiction of SMBC...INTERESTING EH! Although I think that the real reason for that is tied up with the obvious implications of the Chadwick St site....but I've been wrong before...  

You like conspiracy theories Miss M -YOU'LL LOVE THIS ONE.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2012, 02:59:24 PM
Finetime writes that an Asda planning application 'won't be under the jurisdiction of SMBC', but I can't see how that can happen. Surely local authorities are obliged to deal with planning applications, initially at least. Obviously if it then goes to appeal then it's dealt with by the Planning Inspectorate.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: belleesummerbee on March 09, 2012, 04:10:49 PM
The Planning Inspectorate has the ability to 'Call In' applications in certain circumstances.

It may be that leagl advice has been obtained, should an application be submitted by Asda, SMBC may have a conflict of interest in determining, especially as they are actively marketing the Chadwick St/Chapel Field site for a similar commercial use
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 09, 2012, 04:34:46 PM
Thanks belleesummerbee - now I understand, and that is quite interesting.  I can see that such a conflict of interests could be regarded as compromising a local authority's objectivity in considering an application, although I tried looking up the critera for planning applications being called in by the Secretary of State, and the only ones I could find were these:

may conflict with national policies on important matters; 
could have significant effects beyond their immediate locality; 
give rise to substantial regional or national controversy;
raise significant architectural and urban design issues;and
may involve the interests of national security or of foreign Governments.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 11, 2012, 10:16:20 AM
Yes, I was just posting about Godwin's Law when sgk beat me to it!  

As for this:
Utter waste of time! What a load of febrile and self-centred nonsense :-[

.....yes, that must be how it appears, especially with all the irrelevant tit-for-tat that Lisa refers to.  However, it's important to remember that this really is an important issue.  And I don't mean the proposed supermarket itself - unless you live very close to the site, that's a trivial matter.  I have absolutely no doubt that if this supermarket gets built, life will go on, and in ten years time we will look back and wonder what on earth the fuss was all about!

No, what this is really about is education.  The college is trying to improve its buildings for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  A noisy and self-appointed group of campaigners is trying to stop them, and in the process is, at times, spreading misinformation.   It's very important that all of us who believe in education should put the other side of the argument.  We need to stand up for our kids, and for what the college is trying to do for them.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on March 11, 2012, 12:06:45 PM
Quote
The college is trying to improve its buildings for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  A noisy and self-appointed group of campaigners is trying to stop them, and in the process is, at times, spreading misinformation.

It could also be said that the college, which is supposed to be a part of the local community is waving two fingers at the local community and is behaving in a "I'm all right Jack manner". There is a large number of local children who have made the choice NOT to attend the local college, maybe because they see the college as a socially irresponsible organisation. They (the college) have to earn the right to educate our children, their present stance puts into question if they are a fit body to undertake this.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplemum on March 11, 2012, 05:57:44 PM
It could also be said that the reason many of our children do not choose to go to the college is because they lack the facilities that other local colleges can provide.  They lack these facilities because they have had to spend money over the years on buildings that have been way past their best for a number of years now.  This is why we need to allow the college to sell the Hibbert Lane site in order to make sure that our children and grandchildren have the best facilities in Marple.  How can that be wrong?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on March 11, 2012, 06:10:23 PM
Quote
It could also be said that the reason many of our children do not choose to go to the college is because they lack the facilities that other local colleges can provide.  They lack these facilities because they have had to spend money over the years on buildings that have been way past their best for a number of years now.
My children decided not to go to the local college but to go to one that (at the time) had less facilities but  offerred much better pastoral care. New facilities are not the prime consideration when deciding on which establishment offers the best educational opportunities, range of courses and ethos are probably more important. Do you think that CAMSFC is setting a good example of social responsibility in the way that they have conducted themselves over the last 6 years?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 11, 2012, 06:35:31 PM
Do you think that CAMSFC is setting a good example of social responsibility in the way that they have conducted themselves over the last 6 years?

Yes.  Striving to provide the best possible facilities for your students, and ensuring that scarce resources are directed towards funding teaching rather than maintaining out-of-date and inefficient buildings, is  exactly what a socially responsible educational organisation should be doing.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on March 11, 2012, 10:15:22 PM
Quote
The college is trying to improve its buildings for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  A noisy and self-appointed group of campaigners is trying to stop them, and in the process is, at times, spreading misinformation.

It could also be said that the college, which is supposed to be a part of the local community is waving two fingers at the local community and is behaving in a "I'm all right Jack manner". There is a large number of local children who have made the choice NOT to attend the local college, maybe because they see the college as a socially irresponsible organisation. They (the college) have to earn the right to educate our children, their present stance puts into question if they are a fit body to undertake this.

More likely that they simply didnt do the course they wanted. I don't buy the inefficient buildings argument but to pretend a 16 year old will choose a college on future funding decisions is a nonsense
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on March 12, 2012, 07:51:44 AM
Quote
Yes.  Striving to provide the best possible facilities for your students, and ensuring that scarce resources are directed towards funding teaching rather than maintaining out-of-date and inefficient buildings, is  exactly what a socially responsible educational organisation should be doing. 
I would have thought that quality of teaching, college standards and student care were more important than bright shiny new rooms. Maybe the college should be asked why the Cheadle site buildings are not outdated. Oh weren't they updated a number of years ago when the two college's merged?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 12, 2012, 10:00:07 AM
At Cheadle, as at Marple,  the college initially operated in two former school buildings.  About ten years ago it had the good fortune to discover that one of them was unsafe because of reinforced concrete decay, and it had to be demolished.  It therefore had to be replaced, hence the smart and efficient new building which students use on the Cheadle site.

The other building at Cheadle (the former girls' grammar school) is also still in use, although I believe it has had some modernisation work.  It is only about 50 years old - whereas the Hibbert Lane building dates from 1931.

I entirely agree that quality of teaching, college standards and student care are very important.  But in reality, these factors improve as a result of replacing inefficient old buildings with efficient new ones, because funds are released to improve them.   And it isn't really about 'shiny new rooms' at all, though students do like them, and so do staff - and attracting and retaining the best staff is key to providing a quality education.

However, the key factor is cost and efficiency.  Having managed a college which moved from grotty old converted buildings to shiny new purpose-built ones, I can tell you that the savings in running costs (heating, lighting, maintenance) and in space efficiency were astonishing, and of course they are savings which recur, year in, year out, and become really significant.   And this enabled us to free up much needed resources to help improve the teaching. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on March 12, 2012, 10:39:38 AM
I agree with everybody :D both the fact old buildings can be just as good as new, but also the argument that new building s when they can be built long term will be more efficient ( depending on if i they are designed well!)

Its a balancing act on whats best for eveyone... i dont think a huge supermarket is best overall for Marple therefore its too big a price to pay!
and it still depends on attitude, leadership and teaching quality.

My son has decided to go to Poynton, now yes they are getting a shiny new building in summer however that didnt really come into the decision.  It was the way the teachers spoke to him and enthused him even when sat in a dirty old mobile unit.  The 3 times hes been there to visit hes come out enthusiastic and excited!  We also went to Aquinas and we both hated it!  Not the shiny new building, that was lovely , but the way the teachers spoke to us both!

Now, how do you "improve teaching" with money?  is that by getting more expensive teachers? i didnt really think that was possible! Or are we talking resources, software, books, technology!  etc?  Because if so, unless the teacher themselves is a good one then it wont work!  Could be that the "best" teachers will want to work in a shiny new school, but again that s not a guarantee.. will picking better teachers become easier?  In the end actually i think it is about leadership, a good manager always brings the best out of their staff regardless of the facilities!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 12, 2012, 11:01:53 AM
Now, how do you "improve teaching" with money?  is that by getting more expensive teachers? i didnt really think that was possible!

It certainly is!  Maybe you're thinking of schools, Lisa, but in colleges it's a market place.  Money is especially useful for hanging on to a good teacher who has been offered a promotion elsewhere.  If you want to keep them you just invent some special responsibility for them and bung them a salary increase.   ;)

In the end actually i think it is about leadership, a good manager always brings the best out of their staff regardless of the facilities!

Agreed. And a good manager doesn't waste money propping up inefficient old buildings when they could be spending it on educating students. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on March 12, 2012, 01:12:54 PM
At Cheadle, as at Marple,  the college initially operated in two former school buildings.  About ten years ago it had the good fortune to discover that one of them was unsafe because of reinforced concrete decay, and it had to be demolished.  It therefore had to be replaced, hence the smart and efficient new building which students use on the Cheadle site.

The other building at Cheadle (the former girls' grammar school) is also still in use, although I believe it has had some modernisation work.  It is only about 50 years old - whereas the Hibbert Lane building dates from 1931.

I entirely agree that quality of teaching, college standards and student care are very important.  But in reality, these factors improve as a result of replacing inefficient old buildings with efficient new ones, because funds are released to improve them.   And it isn't really about 'shiny new rooms' at all, though students do like them, and so do staff - and attracting and retaining the best staff is key to providing a quality education.

However, the key factor is cost and efficiency.  Having managed a college which moved from grotty old converted buildings to shiny new purpose-built ones, I can tell you that the savings in running costs (heating, lighting, maintenance) and in space efficiency were astonishing, and of course they are savings which recur, year in, year out, and become really significant.   And this enabled us to free up much needed resources to help improve the teaching. 


THe conditions where people are has little correlation to performance,  Elton Mayo's experiments prove this.

As for efficiency of buildongs, it's just an economic decision surely? If the NPV of savings is greater than the cost of demolition and rebuild, surely the college will do that anyway, regardless of selling the site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 12, 2012, 05:34:07 PM
THe conditions where people are has little correlation to performance,  Elton Mayo's experiments prove this.

At no point did I suggest otherwise - the closest I got was pointing out that people like nice new buildings.  They may not perform better, but good working conditions are well known to be a factor in hanging on to good staff. 

If the NPV of savings is greater than the cost of demolition and rebuild, surely the college will do that anyway, regardless of selling the site.

No doubt the college (or rather, its consultants) has done the investment appraisal, and their plan to demolish and rebuild has presumably come out with a with a positive NPV.  But the college would not be permitted to borrow more than about 40% of turnover, so they will need to sell the land to raise the capital. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 12, 2012, 07:38:17 PM
At no point did I suggest otherwise - the closest I got was pointing out that people like nice new buildings.  They may not perform better, but good working conditions are well known to be a factor in hanging on to good staff. 

I would think the staff would be happy just to hang on to their jobs wouldn't you agree Dave old boy ?   Have you deliberately forgotten about the job losses at CAMSFC should this proposal go ahead!  I swear you have selective memory syndrome  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on March 13, 2012, 05:05:36 AM
At no point did I suggest otherwise - the closest I got was pointing out that people like nice new buildings.  They may not perform better, but good working conditions are well known to be a factor in hanging on to good staff. 

I would think the staff would be happy just to hang on to their jobs wouldn't you agree Dave old boy ?   Have you deliberately forgotten about the job losses at CAMSFC should this proposal go ahead!  I swear you have selective memory syndrome  :-\


Which job losses would these be? Now admittedly you have to talk the College at their word at the moment, as there are no firm plans in place (for pretty much anything related to this discussion in fact), but they have said that they intend to make the move to Buxton Lane with no loss of facility, curriculum or student capacity. So who is in danger of losing their job? Other than, in this current economic climate, everyone who gets paid directly or indirectly by government/council, or in fact everyone in general. I guess you wouldn't need as many cleaners/maintenance staff (maybe, but after all, Buxton Lane will be expanded, so it's certainly not as simple as saying that they will just halve the number staff in these areas). But given that the planning process will probably drag on for years, and that it will probably take at least a year or two for any subsequent building works to be completed, there is plenty of time for any necessary staffing reduction to take place through natural wastage.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on March 13, 2012, 08:41:35 AM
Quote
Which job losses would these be? Now admittedly you have to talk the College at their word at the moment, as there are no firm plans in place (for pretty much anything related to this discussion in fact), but they have said that they intend to make the move to Buxton Lane with no loss of facility, curriculum or student capacity.
Can you please let me know where the college have confirmed this fact. If you look at the Governors minutes you will see that the job losses are actually this and next financial year the exact wording is
The pay assumptions made when setting the budget included that additional staff savings would be made in 2011/12 and 2012/13 through restructuring of over £1m.
That is a considerable number of non teaching staff. Also if you look at the number of courses offerred at the Cheadle site against the Marple sites you will see that there is a lot of courses that are now only available at the Cheadle site,that were once available at both sites. What we are seeing is the slow reduction in the Marple sites prior to any move to one site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 13, 2012, 07:47:04 PM
Well Victor M I certainly  think you have given a few regular posters food for thought with your last post about the loss of jobs at CAMSFC
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on March 13, 2012, 08:52:11 PM
Quote
Which job losses would these be? Now admittedly you have to talk the College at their word at the moment, as there are no firm plans in place (for pretty much anything related to this discussion in fact), but they have said that they intend to make the move to Buxton Lane with no loss of facility, curriculum or student capacity.
Can you please let me know where the college have confirmed this fact. If you look at the Governors minutes you will see that the job losses are actually this and next financial year the exact wording is
The pay assumptions made when setting the budget included that additional staff savings would be made in 2011/12 and 2012/13 through restructuring of over £1m.
That is a considerable number of non teaching staff. Also if you look at the number of courses offerred at the Cheadle site against the Marple sites you will see that there is a lot of courses that are now only available at the Cheadle site,that were once available at both sites. What we are seeing is the slow reduction in the Marple sites prior to any move to one site.

So those are job losses relating to financial restructuring taking place this financial year, and next. I don't see the relevance to the discussion in hand, ie significant job losses as a direct result of the college selling hibbert lane and consolidating on Buxton Lane.

Don't get me wrong, there may well be big job losses, as a lot can change over the next (shall I be optimistic and say) 5 yrs that it takes for these plans to come to fruition, but as yet, there is no evidence that there will be.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 10:02:07 AM
It's common knowledge that most colleges and universities are having to cut jobs because their funding is being reduced, together with that of most other parts of the public sector.  As marpleexile says, this is an entirely separate issue from camsfc's plans to develop its estate. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 14, 2012, 10:44:55 AM
Not really Dave. One of the stipulations of the YPLA agreeing to any land  sale is that there is no loss of facilities or curriculum in that area, this does not include transferring subjects to another campus.  I have been in talks with the Chief Executive of YPLA who gave an assurance that Ms Cassidy had assured him that there would be  no loss of curriculum in Marple.  Me thinks he may have to have a little chat with Ms Cassidy and her corporation, don't you  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 11:14:12 AM
I don't understand that post. By ' transferring subjects to another campus', do you mean Buxton Lane or Cheadle?

In any case, the underlying position is clear: there must be no loss of curriculum in Marple as the result of any land disposal.  And that is how it has to be.  What's the problem?   ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 14, 2012, 11:30:36 AM
I don't understand that post. By ' transferring subjects to another campus', do you mean Buxton Lane or Cheadle?

In any case, the underlying position is clear: there must be no loss of curriculum in Marple as the result of any land disposal.  And that is how it has to be.  What's the problem?   ???
You know exactly what I mean !   So why are we already losing curriculum at Marple, could it be that the corporation think they are a law unto themselves ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 14, 2012, 11:35:50 AM
Don't get me wrong, there may well be big job losses, as a lot can change over the next (shall I be optimistic and say) 5 yrs that it takes for these plans to come to fruition, but as yet, there is no evidence that there will be.

When you "optimistically say 5 years" I'm not sure whether you are referring to building the ASDA or realising the College's development plans or both. I don't know about the College and we don't really know what their development plans are - other than a catch-all statement to develop the Buxton Campus. However as far as Asda is concerned if they put their planning application in a day after local elections in May and SMBC's Planning Committee nods it through then there is no reason why you can't be patting yourself on the derriere as you walk through the doors whistling the asda price jingle by next Easter. And before anybody starts jumping up and down saying the Council have made a public statement that they will refuse planning permission - well they have said no such thing - the Director of Planning has and so has the leader of the Council (who incidentally has a good chance of losing his seat in May)  but they aren't the Council - they're just a couple of people involved with it.

Furthermore after May's elections when the Lib Dems have lost even more seats in Stockport, perhaps not in Marple but in, Manor, Romiley, Cale Green, possibly Offerton and Cheadle. The planning Committee will comprise of a Libdem minority because of the proportionality rule, and if Conservative and Labour combined controlled Planning Committee thought that they could damage the Libdem's national flagship ward of Marple by granting planning permission to ASDA then they'd let them build one on in the middle of the Memorial Park! Let alone Hibbert Lane !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 14, 2012, 11:40:13 AM
I could not agree more Finetime !   Everything in my opinion has been staged and planned until after the elections, I am sure some of the suits think we are stupid, but believe me we really are one step ahead  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on March 14, 2012, 12:12:07 PM

When you "optimistically say 5 years" I'm not sure whether you are referring to building the ASDA or realising the College's development plans or both. I don't know about the College and we don't really know what their development plans are - other than a catch-all statement to develop the Buxton Campus. However as far as Asda is concerned if they put their planning application in a day after local elections in May and SMBC's Planning Committee nods it through then there is no reason why you can't be patting yourself on the derriere as you walk through the doors whistling the asda price jingle by next Easter.

Either/both. This issue is going to drag on and on (and Ariston) as there will inevitably be appeal after appeal until the "loosing" side (whichever that turns out to be) has run out of options.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 01:03:33 PM
You know exactly what I mean !

Sorry Miss M, but I don't.  Why would I ask a question if I already knew the answer  ???   You need to spell it out to me: by referring to 'transferring subjects to another campus' did you mean Buxton Lane or Cheadle?

So why are we already losing curriculum at Marple?

There are various possible reasons.   The most common reason for a course being dropped is that not enough students want to take it - this happens all the time: courses for which there is little demand are replaced by new ones that students actually want to do.   It's called being responsive to changing demand. The one certainty is that any course which is closing at the moment won't be doing so because of the possible future closure of the Hibbert Lane site, which is far from a done deal, and, contrary to what you and Finetime seem to believe, is likely to be a few years away, if it happens at all.

Finetime writes:
However as far as Asda is concerned if they put their planning application in a day after local elections in May and SMBC's Planning Committee nods it through then there is no reason why you can't be patting yourself on the derriere as you walk through the doors whistling the asda price jingle by next Easter. And before anybody starts jumping up and down saying the Council have made a public statement that they will refuse planning permission - well they have said no such thing - the Director of Planning has and so has the leader of the Council (who incidentally has a good chance of losing his seat in May)  but they aren't the Council - they're just a couple of people involved with it.

....but s/he may be unaware that there is no serious prospect of the SMBC Planning Committee 'nodding through' a planning application for a supermarket in Hibbert Lane, either before or after the May elections, for the simple reason that the Local Development Framework has the area zoned for housing, not retail. So if a planning application for retail use is going to be approved, it will be at appeal - and that's a long-winded process.  And then if the application were ultimately to be approved - say, some time next year - the College would then have to get planning consent for its Buxton Lane development, and then build it and move in, before the demolition team goes on site at Hibbert Lane.  So don't expect much back-pocket slapping until about 2016 at the earliest!  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 14, 2012, 01:45:07 PM
I mean transferring courses to Cheadle that were once provided at Marple if that's not a loss of curriculum I don't know what is.   If CAMSFC are allowed to undertake this it will possibly result in our children having to be bussed  to Cheadle for education,  which is a nonsense given that we have two perfectly adequate colleges here on our doorstep
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 01:54:27 PM
I agree, Miss M, and I don't think the YPLA (soon to become the SFA) would allow that. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 14, 2012, 02:19:56 PM
That's the problem ! Lord Hill in his last letter  to me had been assured by the YPLA that there would be no loss of curriculum if the sites merged and that plans were already being drawn up to include all curriculum lost at the Hibbert lane site in the plans for Buxton Lane.  Now I maybe a lot of things but I am no mathematician but even I can see that 2 into 1 won't go, so my fear is that CAMSFC are, if Victor M is to be believed, and I have no reason to doubt him, already moving some of the curriculum out of Marple on the quiet so when they have to present plans the already lost curriculum would not have to be included.   Now do  you see where I am coming from  ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 14, 2012, 02:55:02 PM
I could not agree more Finetime !   Everything in my opinion has been staged and planned until after the elections, I am sure some of the suits think we are stupid, but believe me we really are one step ahead  ;)

Miss M, I presume that when you say "we", you mean MIA and considering that MIA have been three steps behind the political process so far then its quite a feat that you are now ..."really one step ahead". I'd be interested to know how, but I suppose if you told me... then you'd have to kill me.

Dave, the fact that Hibbert Lane has been zoned for housing in the Council's LDF, and your right it has, offers no guarantees at all that it can't be used for retail. What it probably guarantees is that the Planning Officers will recommend refusal to ASDA but we are not dealing with officers who have planning agendas we are dealing with politicians who have political one's. Elected members have been overuling Officers for years and there is nothing to say that they won't do it here. If it suits them they'll throw the LDF out of the window without even opening it. The power here is with the Councillors not the Officers nor the LDF.  If they refuse permission then ASDA can appeal as you say but if they grant it - that is it...game...set and match. 


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on March 14, 2012, 03:07:53 PM
Surely if attendance on a given course is so low that that course is losing money, then the only options are to consolidate onto one site, be that Cheadle or Marple, or to drop the course from the curriculum altogether. It would be absolute madness to offer a course at both Cheadle and Marple if they were both unprofitable.

The curriculum has to be constantly revised.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 03:22:07 PM
That's the problem ! Lord Hill in his last letter  to me had been assured by the YPLA that there would be no loss of curriculum if the sites merged and that plans were already being drawn up to include all curriculum lost at the Hibbert lane site in the plans for Buxton Lane.  Now I maybe a lot of things but I am no mathematician but even I can see that 2 into 1 won't go,

The trouble with a thread as loooooooooong as this one is that you do end up going round and round the same old issues!  This one is certainly an old chestnut!  To save myself the schlepp of dealing with it again, here's what I wrote last time:
I think you'll find there's ample space at Buxton Lane for the college to build what it needs, without building significantly higher than the present Buxton Lane. Also, it's important to realise that the floor area of a new building will not be as great as what they are replacing at Hibbert Lane. One of the main reasons for getting rid of Hibbert Lane is that is used very inefficiently, because it was built as a secondary school. Consequently, many of the rooms are the wrong size: schools have nice neat classes of 30 kids - 6th form colleges don't: far from it! So the new building, being purpose built, should be quite a bit smaller.

I've mentioned before that I have some experience of relocating a college.  We went from two enormous old Victorian buildings to one compact purpose-built one which was a fraction of the floor area.  And there was no problem, because the new one was designed specifically for our needs.  

we are not dealing with officers who have planning agendas we are dealing with politicians who have political one's. Elected members have been overuling Officers for years and there is nothing to say that they won't do it here. If it suits them they'll throw the LDF out of the window without even opening it.

Why would it suit them?  AFAIK there is not a single councillor who has shown any support for the college's proposals. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on March 14, 2012, 04:09:27 PM
I could not agree more Finetime !   Everything in my opinion has been staged and planned until after the elections, I am sure some of the suits think we are stupid, but believe me we really are one step ahead  ;)
Dave, the fact that Hibbert Lane has been zoned for housing in the Council's LDF, and your right it has, offers no guarantees at all that it can't be used for retail. What it probably guarantees is that the Planning Officers will recommend refusal to ASDA but we are not dealing with officers who have planning agendas we are dealing with politicians who have political one's. Elected members have been overuling Officers for years and there is nothing to say that they won't do it here. If it suits them they'll throw the LDF out of the window without even opening it. The power here is with the Councillors not the Officers nor the LDF.  If they refuse permission then ASDA can appeal as you say but if they grant it - that is it...game...set and match. 

Thats not strictly true finetime.

If land is allocated for one use in the local plan / ldf, the local authority just can't give planning approval for a totally different land use. It can 'recommend' such an approval, but it would have to be advertised as a 'departure from the plan' and as such has to be formally offered to the secretary of state (Mr Pickles) for him to 'call in' the application and make the decision himself. If it is called in (and there would be a half decent chance it would be, if it was approved against officer advice) then it would end up at a 'call in public inquiry'. If it wasn't called in, only then could SMBC give planning approval.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on March 14, 2012, 04:17:46 PM
Dave, the problem is that there won't be any reduction following the transfer to the single site in Marple, that reduction will already have taken place in financial years 2011-12 & 2012-13. Also if you look at the last minutes available the Chair of Governor's has asked if it is possible to undertake the changes in this financial year. Now why do you think they want the reductions brought forward? If you look at the courses that use to be offerred at both campuses and now are only offerred at one (Cheadle) why is it that Cheadle always appears to be the beneficiary?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 14, 2012, 04:41:16 PM
Dave,

As I'm sure you know there are sixty -  three Councillors in Stockport. Most of them couldn't care less about CAMSFC. Most of them couldn't care less about Asda. With the exception perhaps of 8/10 of them, they couldn't care less about Marple. What they do care about are their political aims and games.

I'm not saying what they'll do. All I'm saying saying is that there is no point in quoting the Council's LDF, that won't stop ASDA, that won't stop anything especially if it becomes a political issue. Go to any Council chamber and you'll see party politics at work.

 At the time of writing , the Planning Committee consists of 11 Councillors: 6 Libdems, 2 Labour and 3 Conservative. One of the Libdems is our own Councillor Kev, the Libdems will probably let him lead on it because of his local political knowledge and they'll always support their own. Whereas the other parties will very often go against the Libdems - for no other reason than it is the LibDems.

If the Committee sat tonight and Councillor Kev was opposed to the ASDA ( I dont know that this is true ) then the application would almost certainly be rejected - but come the election the Committee will  have a different political make-up and if Councillor Kev is opposed to it then - they might be opposed to him - only this time they'll have the majority. Then you could have planning consent by September.  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 05:05:25 PM
Finetime, you need to read what belly wrote about what happens when local authority departs from its own LDF.
As far as closing courses (or relocating them to Cheadle) is concerned, it's important to understand how further education works. Colleges are funded per student enrolment. They are suffering cuts in the unit of funding which require significant belt-tightening, job losses etc. The one thing no college does, especially in such a challenging financial climate, is close viable courses, because to do so is to turn down desperately needed cash!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on March 14, 2012, 05:06:38 PM
I really really hope that the planning committee base this decision on politics if they say yes because that would be fantastic.  sure a judical Review under those circumstances would be extremely easy to win just based on them ignoring national planning regulations and clearly openly ignoring the local plan.. would be brilliant!!

However it wont happen..
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 14, 2012, 05:19:50 PM
Miss M, I presume that when you say "we", you mean MIA and considering that MIA have been three steps behind the political process so far then its quite a feat that you are now ..."really one step ahead". I'd be interested to know how, but I suppose if you told me... then you'd have to kill me.


Finetime can you explain why you feel MIA have been three steps behind  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 14, 2012, 06:05:09 PM
Miss M,

I think that I've explained it before - briefly its all to do with MIA castrating the local politicians and raising the profile of the situation  with the Council Leader, so that it becomes a political issue.

If I go into it in detail, I'll bore everybody even more than I normally do then Belly and Dave will start battering me with planning laws - which I know in theory are correct and I also know that they are both intelligent, sensible guys but they don't ponder much on the political...which has a big influence. Belly has already threatened me with Big Eric Pickles and he said that he'll "call me in" - or was it out, I'm not sure and Dave said that he's going to make me understand ..."how further education works". Next I'll be the subject of one of Amazon's poetic assaults or Mrs O will leap onto me from that tree she's hiding in or maybe even Heritage will spit out yet another dummy in my direction.

I could take all that as long as Lisa doesn't start relegating my posts again because I 've just made friends with her after being on the losing end of an icy stand -off wherein she proved beyond doubt that I was completely irrelevant...why did I say that - she'll relegate this now.  So Miss M, I'd love to explain again - but I think that I'd better go down the pub....Not the Ringer.             
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on March 14, 2012, 06:30:20 PM
Quote
As far as closing courses (or relocating them to Cheadle) is concerned, it's important to understand how further education works. Colleges are funded per student enrolment. They are suffering cuts in the unit of funding which require significant belt-tightening, job losses etc. The one thing no college does, especially in such a challenging financial climate, is close viable courses, because to do so is to turn down desperately needed cash!
Dave you know as well as I do that there are certain courses that cost a lot more to put on than others, one way of maximising your revenue streams is to make sure that the courses you put on are the cheapest to run. i.e. Don't need any complex equipment, don't need laboratory technicians (science courses), can accommodate maximum number of students per teacher (mainly humanities), don't need large classrooms (like Art based courses). So the course maybe viable but not generate as much cash as something else (apprentice type course).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on March 14, 2012, 07:00:13 PM
Miss M,

I think that I've explained it before - briefly its all to do with MIA castrating the local politicians and raising the profile of the situation  with the Council Leader, so that it becomes a political issue.

If I go into it in detail, I'll bore everybody even more than I normally do then Belly and Dave will start battering me with planning laws - which I know in theory are correct and I also know that they are both intelligent, sensible guys but they don't ponder much on the political...which has a big influence. Belly has already threatened me with Big Eric Pickles and he said that he'll "call me in" - or was it out, I'm not sure and Dave said that he's going to make me understand ..."how further education works". Next I'll be the subject of one of Amazon's poetic assaults or Mrs O will leap onto me from that tree she's hiding in or maybe even Heritage will spit out yet another dummy in my direction.

I could take all that as long as Lisa doesn't start relegating my posts again because I 've just made friends with her after being on the losing end of an icy stand -off wherein she proved beyond doubt that I was completely irrelevant...why did I say that - she'll relegate this now.  So Miss M, I'd love to explain again - but I think that I'd better go down the pub....Not the Ringer.              

First of all, why do you believe that Marple Area Committee will not be able to decide a planning application for a supermarket? As I understand it three Councillors have declared their position and will therefore not be able to take part in the decision process and three haven't. Why will the three who have kept an open mind on the issue not be able to decide on their own?

I must also add that your repeated public pokes at Lisa are beginning to annoy me and if you persist in doing this then I am going to conclude that you must be an apparition and bar you. Please don't debate this with me in this thread as it will be removed. You are welcome to PM me if you wish to discuss it further.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 08:17:37 PM
Victor, it isn't as simple as that. The YPLA has different levels of funding for different qualifications, depending on how costly they are to deliver. If they didn't no college could ever afford to offer lab-based courses!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on March 14, 2012, 10:09:06 PM
No doubt the college (or rather, its consultants) has done the investment appraisal, and their plan to demolish and rebuild has presumably come out with a with a positive NPV.  But the college would not be permitted to borrow more than about 40% of turnover, so they will need to sell the land to raise the capital. 

Or work at improving turnover and cutting overheads. Can they pay their staff less? Can they run more attractive and premium business courses?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2012, 10:59:27 PM
Yes, but what they would earn is small beer, especially in the current financial climate.  It would certainly be nowhere near the millions they need to finance a new build. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 15, 2012, 09:52:22 AM
As you say, the Gang of Three are are openly pre-determined and are therefore excluded from the formal process. IMHO, these three will probably speak on the night, citing their predetermination whilst ostensibly condemning ASDA and CAMSFC but really wishing to refer the matter to Central Planning Committee (CPC) as quickly as possible thus absolving them of any community responsibility whatever the future outcome. When you think about it this pre-detrmination is a shrewd political electioneering move and by this time two of them at least will be safe untill 2016.

As If this isn't enough to render the AC toothless and it is - by a mile, the fourth Councillor occupies a seat on CPC. If he speaks out (whatever his view) he will have predetermined his view at the AC for CPC and will not be allowed to sit on the CPC. My view is that he will stand down on the night of the AC so he can go to CPC. If he does this then the AC has no legitimate quoracy.

So unless the Gang of Three do a "U" turn or formally withdraw their opposition to CAMSFC/ASDA - its not impossible, then the AC is what is known in polite circles as well and truly stuffed.  

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on March 15, 2012, 10:21:07 AM
Yes, but what they would earn is small beer, especially in the current financial climate.  It would certainly be nowhere near the millions they need to finance a new build. 

In that case, there isn't a business case for it, simple as.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 15, 2012, 10:35:12 AM
Following on from the AC debate.

There is a question which should be asked to the Gang of Three and to my knowledge it never has been.

Its this...; WHY HAVE YOU AS EXPERIENCED POLITICIANS ALLOWED YOURSELVES TO BE PUT IN A POSITION OF PRE-DETERMINATION THUS SILENCING THE LOCAL COUNCILLORS COMMUNITY VOICE AS FAR AS THE PLANNING APPLICATION IS CONCERNED WHEN TO GIVE THIS VOICE IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WERE ELECTED FOR?

One for you at the next AC Miss Marple?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: finetimefontaine on March 15, 2012, 11:21:36 AM
I really really hope that the planning committee base this decision on politics if they say yes because that would be fantastic.  sure a judical Review under those circumstances would be extremely easy to win just based on them ignoring national planning regulations and clearly openly ignoring the local plan.. would be brilliant!!

However it wont happen..

All politicians decisions are based on politics. The art of the politician is to make it appear that it is based on everything else but. They are very accomplished at it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on March 15, 2012, 05:29:50 PM
Yes, but what they would earn is small beer, especially in the current financial climate.  It would certainly be nowhere near the millions they need to finance a new build. 

In that case, there isn't a business case for it, simple as.

Come on Dukey, you know as well as I do that how an organisation raises the upfront capital for a project is one thing - whether there is a good business case for it is an entirely separate matter.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on March 17, 2012, 02:06:27 PM
From: Miss marple

16 March 2012 Freedom of Information Request

Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,

Please provide a detailed list of all subjects / courses on the
Hibbert Lane Campus and Buxton Lane Campus for the periods
2006-2007
2008-2009
2010-2011
Also the subjects / courses that are currently available on both Marple
sites for this year 2012
Can you also highlight courses/subjects that have been transferred
during any of the requested periods to The Cheadle site

Yours faithfully,

Miss Marple


Now this should be interesting  :o But I sincerely hope I am proved wrong.  I will keep you posted !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on April 14, 2012, 01:17:26 PM
FOI Course Request.xlsx
59K Download View as HTML

Please find attached a spread sheet in response to your query



I don't know have to paste the spread sheet  but you can click on to What do They Know to view it !

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 15, 2012, 09:35:30 AM
So what should we be looking for on the spreadsheets, Miss M?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on April 15, 2012, 12:34:46 PM
Your the education man ! You tell me  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 15, 2012, 06:00:26 PM
I can't see anything of interest or significance there. But you requested the information, not me, and you wrote that you expected it to be interesting. Is it?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on April 15, 2012, 10:53:03 PM
From: Miss marple

16 March 2012 Freedom of Information Request

Dear Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College,

Please provide a detailed list of all subjects / courses on the
Hibbert Lane Campus and Buxton Lane Campus for the periods
2006-2007
2008-2009
2010-2011
Also the subjects / courses that are currently available on both Marple
sites for this year 2012
Can you also highlight courses/subjects that have been transferred
during any of the requested periods to The Cheadle site

Yours faithfully,

Miss Marple


Now this should be interesting  :o But I sincerely hope I am proved wrong.  I will keep you posted !

Very interesting to me that Andrew Hubert has stated the following,to your FOI request

 

"There have been no courses transferred from Marple to Cheadle during the
periods mentioned"Regards Andrew Hubert.

Thankyou for your posting MM,At least you tell it as it is.Of course my post will be of no interest to some.But they will no doubt still feel the need to make a comment on a subject they are not interested in.

 


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on April 16, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
FOI Course Request.xlsx
59K Download View as HTML

Please find attached a spread sheet in response to your query



I don't know have to paste the spread sheet  but you can click on to What do They Know to view it !



For those who are interested, the spreadsheet Miss Marple refers to can be found by clicking "Curriculum" here _ http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/miss_marple (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/miss_marple)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 16, 2012, 04:42:43 PM
Thanks tricky.  So we now know that Miss M has cost the taxpayer £5,440,  by submitting 34 FOI requests at an average cost of £160 to process.  So let's hope they weren't all as pointless as this one was  ::) 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 17, 2012, 07:04:48 PM
Paula, why do you feel you needed to use the FOI Act to find out who was funding Dan Bank when a sinple, civil letter to SMBC would have sufficed? Also, the FOI request re Christina Cassidy's past employment history is, in my opinion, verging towards bullying. Not for nothing did Tony Blair say the FOI Act was his biggest regret in politics.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 17, 2012, 07:44:54 PM
Not for nothing did Tony Blair say the FOI Act was his biggest regret in politics.

Indeed.  I shudder to think how much taxpayers' money has been squandered on dealing with trivial and pointless FOI requests.  Let's hope some sensible government repeals it, or at least amends it to make it less open to this sort of abuse. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on April 17, 2012, 08:06:33 PM
Paula, why do you feel you needed to use the FOI Act to find out who was funding Dan Bank when a sinple, civil letter to SMBC would have sufficed? Also, the FOI request re Christina Cassidy's past employment history is, in my opinion, verging towards bullying. Not for nothing did Tony Blair say the FOI Act was his biggest regret in politics.
Raymond keep your powder dry  it's all building up  a picture,  all will become clear, don't excite yourself so much it's not good !  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 18, 2012, 07:55:42 AM
When Miss M posted this particular FOI request, she wrote:
Now this should be interesting  :o But I sincerely hope I am proved wrong.  I will keep you posted !

When the link to the response appeared, I enquired:
you wrote that you expected it to be interesting. Is it?

Later, Miss M wrote:
it's all building up  a picture,  all will become clear

So come on Miss M, stop doing the Dance of the Seven Veils  ;)  Keep us posted.  Is it interesting or not?   What's this picture it's building up?   When will all become clear?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on April 18, 2012, 08:17:12 PM
When Miss M posted this particular FOI request, she wrote:
Now this should be interesting  :o But I sincerely hope I am proved wrong.  I will keep you posted !

When the link to the response appeared, I enquired:
you wrote that you expected it to be interesting. Is it?

Later, Miss M wrote:
it's all building up  a picture,  all will become clear

So come on Miss M, stop doing the Dance of the Seven Veils  ;)  Keep us posted.  Is it interesting or not?   What's this picture it's building up?   When will all become clear?
. Tesco have stopped building new supermarkets upgrading the ones they have .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: richard on April 18, 2012, 08:58:44 PM
It was never Tesco. Not sure Asda have the same policy.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on April 18, 2012, 09:41:13 PM
It was never Tesco. Not sure Asda have the same policy.
Never said it was .ionly said tesco stopped building supermarkets .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 18, 2012, 11:42:58 PM
Indeed. And in what way is that relevant to Miss M's FOI request??
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on April 24, 2012, 06:28:27 PM
Every FOI request costs money. Interestingly, the leader of Tyneside Council, when interviewed about the principle of such requests, branded FOI-Requesters as, in the main, "...lazy busybodies...wanting excitement in their lives" and it would be unfortunate were local and genuine any Marple issues to be tarred with the same sort of brush with requests which don't really say anything of real value. Or do they? Has anyone seen a FOI request anywhere and thought "Wow - I never knew that!!" ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on April 24, 2012, 07:49:44 PM
Oh yes there have been a few in conection with the supermarket !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on April 25, 2012, 10:22:21 AM
Oh yes there have been a few in conection with the supermarket !
Such as?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on April 25, 2012, 10:54:34 AM
Oh yes there have been a few in conection with the supermarket !
Such as?
Every FOI request costs money. Interestingly, the leader of Tyneside Council, when interviewed about the principle of such requests, branded FOI-Requesters as, in the main, "...lazy busybodies...wanting excitement in their lives" and it would be unfortunate were local and genuine any Marple issues to be tarred with the same sort of brush with requests which don't really say anything of real value. Or do they? Has anyone seen a FOI request anywhere and thought "Wow - I never knew that!!" ?


Of course FOI requests cost money - our money. Save me from the views of the leader of Tyneside Council, why should his view prevail ? He's a politician and all politicians with no exception try to hide issues from members of the public. By nature they don't like FOI requests. Using him as an example is like asking the hangman to comment on the abolition of capital punishment.To say what he said is patronising and insulting to genuine people who ask for genuine, FOI requests. If my recall is correct the recent MP'S xpenses scandal was uncovered as a direct consequence of an FOI request, well at the time ... "Wow - I never knew that!! - I'm sure that there are many more ...to which we could apply the same exclamation.

So let's not unjustly pillory Miss M for her possibly, excessive FOI zeal. Her motivation is in only trying to uncover things which is the opposite of "Geordie Tyneside" who is trying to cover them up.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cripes on April 25, 2012, 01:14:02 PM
Oh yes there have been a few in conection with the supermarket !
Such as?
Every FOI request costs money. Interestingly, the leader of Tyneside Council, when interviewed about the principle of such requests, branded FOI-Requesters as, in the main, "...lazy busybodies...wanting excitement in their lives" and it would be unfortunate were local and genuine any Marple issues to be tarred with the same sort of brush with requests which don't really say anything of real value. Or do they? Has anyone seen a FOI request anywhere and thought "Wow - I never knew that!!" ?

So let's not unjustly pillory Miss M for her possibly, excessive FOI zeal. Her motivation is in only trying to uncover things which is the opposite of "Geordie Tyneside" who is trying to cover them up.

Unjustly?! Are you kidding, 34 requests, and if you read through them, the majority irrelevant.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on April 25, 2012, 02:12:14 PM
Hello Cripes,

No I have to say that I have not actually read 34 "irrelevant" FOI requests ! Have you ? If so why?
To prove some obscure point, that Miss M sends in pointless FOI requests - point proven.

What shall we do, take her outside and shoot her ? Is that what we're up to on this website -petty vindictiveness, just because someone gets you mad ? Therefore we go on to debate their actions which we consider to be irrelevant and pointless anyway.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cripes on April 25, 2012, 04:40:26 PM
Hello Cripes,

No I have to say that I have not actually read 34 "irrelevant" FOI requests ! Have you ? If so why?
To prove some obscure point, that Miss M sends in pointless FOI requests - point proven.

What shall we do, take her outside and shoot her ? Is that what we're up to on this website -petty vindictiveness, just because someone gets you mad ? Therefore we go on to debate their actions which we consider to be irrelevant and pointless anyway.

The short answer to that is because it's public money which I have contribued to.

The long answer is that I was under the impression Miss M is employed by the public sector and the nature of her job means that she witnesses people in distress. I should imagine that the cuts in this sector must not make her job any easier or help her clients. Therefore wasting what little money there is (note I didn't say all the ROIs were all irrelevant) seems an odd thing to do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on April 25, 2012, 05:22:48 PM
I am self employed !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on April 25, 2012, 05:53:05 PM
..."seems an odd thing to do"...

I agree but she's probably an odd person like the rest of us on this website.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on April 25, 2012, 06:26:47 PM
Simone, I think you will find that the MPs expenses scandal was kickstarted by someone selling a cd to the Daily Telegraph.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on April 25, 2012, 06:47:36 PM
Of course FOI requests cost money - our money. Save me from the views of the leader of Tyneside Council, why should his view prevail ? He's a politician and all politicians with no exception try to hide issues from members of the public. By nature they don't like FOI requests. Using him as an example is like asking the hangman to comment on the abolition of capital punishment.To say what he said is patronising and insulting to genuine people who ask for genuine, FOI requests. If my recall is correct the recent MP'S xpenses scandal was uncovered as a direct consequence of an FOI request, well at the time ... "Wow - I never knew that!! - I'm sure that there are many more ...to which we could apply the same exclamation.

So let's not unjustly pillory Miss M for her possibly, excessive FOI zeal. Her motivation is in only trying to uncover things which is the opposite of "Geordie Tyneside" who is trying to cover them up.

I don't think the leader of Tyneside council is still T Dan Smith and I'm not sure if FOI would have stopped that Labour man's carrying on.

I think we all agree that there must be some checks and balances for the electorate to check up on how councils spend our money. FOI requests seem to be an very inefficient way of doing htis and are widely abused. Seeing someone willfully abuse the process is akin to seeing someone vandalise a wall and excuse the vandalism because they've paid for a bit of it. Miss M is by no means the worst offender, look up a former contributor to these pages Shiela Oliver, she's made over 1,000 requests! Costing Stockport in excess of £130,000 of stealing the entire council tax contribution from 130 homes. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on April 25, 2012, 07:32:58 PM
Not that I feel I have to justify the FOIs but just so we can all move on.  Three are my FOIs the rest have been done on behalf of other people and the rest have been done in my role within MIA.  Information has been gained and MIA have been able to use the information gained successfully.  Prior to the FOIs letters had been sent but were not answered and still remain unanswered  Hence the power of an FOI  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Cripes on April 25, 2012, 08:04:31 PM
..."seems an odd thing to do"...

I agree but she's probably an odd person like the rest of us on this website.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on April 26, 2012, 08:37:07 AM
Duke,

Please,not Mrs Oliver again. We all know about her and we don't need reminding. We're all slightly mad on here but we're not crazy.

To change the subject slightly. You'll like this Duke. Heard last night that the LGA (Local Government Association) has just awarded leader of the year ...."for sustained and titanic contribution to regeneration"


RICHARD LEESE. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on April 26, 2012, 04:50:30 PM
Miss M writes 'Prior to the FOIs letters had been sent but were not answered', but of course they were unanswered. Which of us would bother to answer pointless questions from timewasters with nothing better to do unless we were forced to!
As for 'the power of an FOI', such power is only worth anything if it achieves something. What did the FOI about camsfc curriculum achieve....?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on April 26, 2012, 09:21:18 PM
Duke,

Please,not Mrs Oliver again. We all know about her and we don't need reminding. We're all slightly mad on here but we're not crazy.

To change the subject slightly. You'll like this Duke. Heard last night that the  LGA (Local Government Association) has just awarded leader of the year ...."for sustained and titanic contribution to regeneration"


RICHARD LEESE. 

Jeez, I'm amazed the is a thing called the LGA and they feel the need to award each other and of course, how can they award that waste of public money!

Carl, if you get in, destroy that organisation in the spirit of Lady T vs the unions
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on April 27, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
[qu[/quote]

Jeez, I'm amazed the is a thing called the LGA and they feel the need to award each other and of course, how can they award that waste of public money!

Carl, if you get in, destroy that organisation in the spirit of Lady T vs the unions


I think that you are expecting a lot from Carl. He is standing for Councillor in Marple Sth ...not Prime Minister.....yet.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: dtm on May 11, 2012, 12:49:39 PM
This may be old news but last week I heard from a local postman that the Marple Sorting Office has definitely been sold to Waitrose, and that as well as the Sorting Office, The Carver Theatre and several houses are to be demolished!

They were given this news by Council staff and seems to be a done deal

Maybe I'm wrong but this seems to have gone through very quickly and very quietly without the furore that MIA has created about the Hibbert Lane Spermarket, and yet we may be losing our sorting office, theatre and other people their homes

I thought MIA had gone a bit quiet recently!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on May 11, 2012, 01:02:18 PM
According to the council's web site ...


Chadwick Street car park

The Council has now received five bids for the site.

The special Marple Area Committee meeting planned for Wednesday 16 May will no longer take place. Instead, a report will be considered by the Council's Executive on Monday 28 May recommending a preferred developer for the site.

A report will then be presented to the next Marple Area Committee on Wednesday 6 June to inform members and residents of the Executive’s decision.

None of the bids include the purchase of any additional properties or land, outside of the council land ownership, to make the development deliverable.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on May 11, 2012, 11:02:04 PM
According to the council's web site ...


Chadwick Street car park

The Council has now received five bids for the site.

The special Marple Area Committee meeting planned for Wednesday 16 May will no longer take place. Instead, a report will be considered by the Council's Executive on Monday 28 May recommending a preferred developer for the site.

A report will then be presented to the next Marple Area Committee on Wednesday 6 June to inform members and residents of the Executive’s decision.

None of the bids include the purchase of any additional properties or land, outside of the council land ownership, to make the development deliverable.


That sounds rather like a done deal.

There's nothing like democracy and that's nothing like democracy.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on May 12, 2012, 09:52:21 AM
Has anybody out there actually got any FACTS ?

Where is the "in the know" MIA?

Why doesn't somebody contact the local Councillors and ask them? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on May 12, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
As was said at the very first meeting held in the Park, when too many people turned up for the Area Committee meeting. Any decision taken on a new supermarket in Marple would not be initially considered by the Area Committee but would be considered by the Council Executive. That is what is happening and that I believe is what MIA have said right from the beginning.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on May 12, 2012, 02:26:46 PM
As was said at the very first meeting held in the Park, when too many people turned up for the Area Committee meeting. Any decision taken on a new supermarket in Marple would not be initially considered by the Area Committee but would be considered by the Council Executive. That is what is happening and that I believe is what MIA have said right from the beginning.

This assertion is not quite right but it is petulant to debate whether MIA was right or wrong . MIA is nought but a bit player in this.

There are two separate issues here; Hibbert Lane, site and Chadwick St, site.

Hibbert Lane: This site we are told has been sold to Asda although we do not know under what conditions. If and when Asda put in a planning application then that application will initially come before the Area Committee (AC). The Executive will not be involved. If the planning application is rejected by SMBC's planning dept and this rejection is in turn supported by AC with no referral to Highways and Planning Committee, then that can be seen as fulfilling Council protocol and can be presented as the Council's decision on that particular, planning application. This of course does not prevent the applicant from using appeal protocols. However, whatever protocols, appeals are taken up the Council Executive is not involved       

Chadwick Street Site: MIA knew nothing of this at the time of the "meeting in the park". It was months later before that site was even marketed. This was a strategy developed by Marple Councillors (and it has to be said that it is a cunning plan) its aim to ultimately prevent the construction of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane site. MIA were in total ignorance of this plan until they were informed along wiith everybody else that it had actually been implemented, by placing Chadwick St car-park for sale. Even then they didn't guess the possible outcome.

Because Chadwick street car-park and immediate environs are actually owned by the Council then only the Executive can make a decision as to whom it can be sold - if at all.

That is the reason for the convention of the Executive later this month, to decide this.

If it is decided that Chadwick Street can be sold and let's say that is Waitrose (speculation) then this will slice Asda's appeal grounds for Hibbert Lane off at the legs.

Current Score; Marple Councillors 3, Asda 0, MIA, watching from the touchline. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on May 12, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
Quote
Chadwick Street Site: MIA knew nothing of this at the time of the "meeting in the park". It was months later before that site was even marketed. This was a strategy developed by Marple Councillors (and it has to be said that it is a cunning plan) its aim to ultimately prevent the construction of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane site. MIA were in total ignorance of this plan until they were informed along wiith everybody else that it had actually been implemented, by placing Chadwick St car-park for sale. Even then they didn't guess the possible outcome.
I beg to differ, if you look at the correspondence MIA obtained under the Freedom of Information Act then you will see that the College's consultants were told by SMBC Officers of the Chadwick Street car park site and chose to ignore it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on May 12, 2012, 03:44:57 PM
Victor,

We seem to be talking about different things here but I'll take your word for it.

Going slightly (only slightly) off subject, does anybody know the names of the Councillors who are/will be on the Executive on the 28th of May?

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on May 12, 2012, 03:51:46 PM
I think that that is decided at the next full Council meeting, but with a hung council there will be a lot of horse trading going on.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on May 12, 2012, 07:26:15 PM
How has MIA actually influenced policy in any way since its inception?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on May 12, 2012, 08:04:29 PM
The only way we will know if MIA has influenced anything so far will be if the land is not sold to a Supermarket. Would be interesting if we find out that ASDA is one of the 5 bidders for Chadwick Street car park, where will that leave the college?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on May 12, 2012, 08:11:49 PM
Has anybody out there actually got any FACTS ?

Where is the "in the know" MIA?

Why doesn't somebody contact the local Councillors and ask them? 
Go on then
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on May 13, 2012, 07:26:30 AM
Has anybody out there actually got any FACTS ?

Where is the "in the know" MIA?

Why doesn't somebody contact the local Councillors and ask them? 
Go on then

You're right, if I think about it I'm probably not that interested and I am probably happy enough just to let envents unfurl.

In fact upon deeper reflection the whole thing has become a bit boring of late and I'm probably more interested in the intrigue than in the outcome.  Personal opinion of course.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on May 13, 2012, 07:00:10 PM
I agree....this thread is more about armchair conspiracy theorists than any meaningful community action or policy influence....such is the nature of community forums! It's dull as dishwater if viewed as a vehicle with which to actually influence anything  :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on May 18, 2012, 10:35:47 PM
Victor,

We seem to be talking about different things here but I'll take your word for it.

Going slightly (only slightly) off subject, does anybody know the names of the Councillors who are/will be on the Executive on the 28th of May?

 

Just Heard the Executive is Cllrs;ALEXANDER,BODSWORTH,CANDLER,DERBYSHIRE,DOWLING,HAWTHORNE,HOGG,PANTELL,ROBERTS & WELDON.

Portfolios not yet decided but Derbyshire & Candler elected Leader and Deputy Leader respectively.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 16, 2012, 08:53:14 PM
It appears traffic monitoring has started on Hibbert Lane camera is located near the vets  ::).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on June 16, 2012, 10:44:31 PM
Outside the rolling pin aswell
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 17, 2012, 01:13:49 AM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)


So you don't think the road to Stockport sliping into the valley should have been addressed then. Why is it a "So called cycle tack"?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 17, 2012, 12:49:53 PM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)


So you don't think the road to Stockport sliping into the valley should have been addressed then. Why is it a "So called cycle tack"?

What are you going on about that's done dusted years .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 17, 2012, 01:20:38 PM
The Department of transport and SMBC have already "Paved the way" for any major supermarket by altering junctions,a so called cycle track and stregthening of Dan Bank. ;)


So you don't think the road to Stockport sliping into the valley should have been addressed then. Why is it a "So called cycle tack"?

What are you going on about that's done dusted years .

Yes but the original poster was suggesting that the work was all done as a plot by the LA to help a supermarket bid.
Talk about paranoid.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 17, 2012, 05:37:15 PM
It appears traffic monitoring has started on Hibbert Lane camera is located near the vets  ::).

If that was for the supermarket they wasted their money surveying on Carnival Day! That data would get ripped to shreds at any inquiry.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: thebigshed on June 17, 2012, 06:14:33 PM
It looked like they were actually dismantling the sensor outside the pet shop just after the parade had gone down the road and before it came back up.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 17, 2012, 06:39:14 PM
It looked like they were actually dismantling the sensor outside the pet shop just after the parade had gone down the road and before it came back up.

Maybe they did, but the morning of the Carnival is hardly typical Saturday morning conditions in the town is it. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 27, 2012, 09:12:02 PM
Quote
27 June 2012 - Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site):

Consultation Events – Friday 6 July 2012 10am – 6pm and Saturday 7 July 10am – 5pm
Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College, Hibbert Lane Campus.

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.

3G sports pitch, what's not to like? Will be a massive draw for local teams.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 28, 2012, 08:51:51 AM

Quote
27 June 2012 - Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site):

Consultation Events – Friday 6 July 2012 10am – 6pm and Saturday 7 July 10am – 5pm
Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College, Hibbert Lane Campus.

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.

Its interesting to note that the above statement, taken from MIA's web site, is not a truthful copy of the statement on the SMBC web site.

It omits the sentence "It is understood that the proposed supermarket will occupy a site smaller than the current college buildings."

This does rather make a mockery of some of the scaremongering claims, such as

To put this in perspective the size of the supermarket will be the size of 6 Football pitches and don't let them tell you any different ! 

Perhaps some people should have waited for the plans to be made available, rather than make up 'facts'.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: the rover on June 28, 2012, 08:57:55 AM



Perhaps some people should have waited for the plans to be made available, rather than make up 'facts'.



Are you trying to say that Miss Marple and the rest of the meddling MIA have been telling 'porkies' all along???????
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 28, 2012, 09:20:51 AM
Thanks Harry

Actual statement on SMBC website http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138 (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138)

Quote
Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new build facility which includes a  new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site. It is understood that the proposed supermarket will occupy a site smaller than the current college buildings.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.



Marple in Action's version http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm (http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm)

Quote
Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on June 28, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
Oh dear.  We've had misleading information from MIA in the past, but until now it has tended to come from individuals on this forum, or talking to passers-by at the MIA tent in Market Street, and not from official MIA statements.   But this is obviously a deliberate attempt by MIA to conceal information, and it can only backfire on them, I'm afraid.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 28, 2012, 10:49:38 AM
Oh dear.  We've had misleading information from MIA in the past, but until now it has tended to come from individuals on this forum, or talking to passers-by at the MIA tent in Market Street, and not from official MIA statements.   But this is obviously a deliberate attempt by MIA to conceal information, and it can only backfire on them, I'm afraid.   

Surely you've not forgotten this Dave

http://www.marple-in-action.org.uk/MIAnewsletterDec2011.pdf (http://www.marple-in-action.org.uk/MIAnewsletterDec2011.pdf)

Quote
Dear Mr Clarke,
Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College
I read that your company is planning to buy Cheadle and
Marple Sixth Form College, demolish it and build a supermarket.
As a resident of Marple, I am both shocked
and amazed. The shock is from learning that we now live
in a country that closes schools to open supermarkets.
My amazement is that a company such as yours that
spends so much to project a positive image would ever
dream about becoming involved in such a sad and
shameful story.
Given the rapacious nature of the big four supermarkets
chains, you may well choose to persist in the plan to destroy
an institute of education and build yet another of
your stores. But, be aware – you live in the court of
public opinion, and public opinion is strongly against this
loss of land that was gifted many years ago to the people
of Marple: ‘that their sons and daughters should be able
to learn and become good citizens’.
For your huge company to destroy a school and build
land gifted for education will be a public relations disaster
for ASDA. And be sure that the people of Marple will
make sure that the wider public knows. We will also fight
your plans – your money may buy good lawyers – but we
will fight nonetheless. And if you win? Well you will be
marked forever as the man who destroys places of
education to pursue yet another pound of profit.
Yours sincerely

Marple in Action
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on June 28, 2012, 11:18:17 AM
"will be" should read... could be as big as

"understood" should read ..could be as little as

neither statement from either side give definition.  MIA is right.. it could be.. they dont know for sure...

BUT the truth is the other side already know whats planned so they may or may not be telling porkies..

I know what I'm betting on.

As I have said before.. I will wait for the ACTUAL plans..   and take absolutely no notice of either side until that happens!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on June 28, 2012, 12:52:39 PM
I think you're missing HWL's point, Lisa.  It's not that either side is right or wrong - as you say, we will all find out in due course.  But the problem is that MIA posted something described as 'Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site), but then deliberately omitted one sentence from it.  If the caption had read 'Excerpt from Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site)' then they might have got away with it, but I'm afraid they have caught red-handed this time (or should it be red-faced?)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 28, 2012, 02:15:10 PM
I think you're missing HWL's point, Lisa.  It's not that either side is right or wrong - as you say, we will all find out in due course.  But the problem is that MIA posted something described as 'Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site), but then deliberately omitted one sentence from it.  If the caption had read 'Excerpt from Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site)' then they might have got away with it, but I'm afraid they have caught red-handed this time (or should it be red-faced?)

I wasn't the one who made that point Dave but I know what you mean. I pasted in both statements and there are some subtle other differences in there too. Not sure why so I was waiting from someone from MIA to come along before jumping to conclusions.

The supermarket could of course be as big as 6 five-a-side football pitches  ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 28, 2012, 03:14:21 PM
I think you're missing HWL's point, Lisa.  It's not that either side is right or wrong - as you say, we will all find out in due course.  But the problem is that MIA posted something described as 'Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site), but then deliberately omitted one sentence from it.  If the caption had read 'Excerpt from Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site)' then they might have got away with it, but I'm afraid they have caught red-handed this time (or should it be red-faced?)

I wasn't the one who made that point Dave but I know what you mean. I pasted in both statements and there are some subtle other differences in there too. Not sure why so I was waiting from someone from MIA to come along before jumping to conclusions.

The supermarket could of course be as big as 6 five-a-side football pitches  ::)

Which is not that big for a supermarket .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 28, 2012, 06:57:03 PM
I think you're missing HWL's point, Lisa.  It's not that either side is right or wrong - as you say, we will all find out in due course.  But the problem is that MIA posted something described as 'Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site), but then deliberately omitted one sentence from it.  If the caption had read 'Excerpt from Consultation Details (taken from SMBC web site)' then they might have got away with it, but I'm afraid they have caught red-handed this time (or should it be red-faced?)

I wasn't the one who made that point Dave but I know what you mean. I pasted in both statements and there are some subtle other differences in there too. Not sure why so I was waiting from someone from MIA to come along before jumping to conclusions.

The supermarket could of course be as big as 6 five-a-side football pitches  ::)
Why would the words " New build facility " also be omitted? I think the council have probably changed their original statement. No big deal, just unfortunate the first one has been quoted.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 28, 2012, 06:57:18 PM
Hey don't get me wrong about this ASDA proposal just a few assurances needed

1. I can get out of Marple after 7.20 am without joining a traffic queue and be in Stockport in 15 Min's any time of the day

2 They can assure me in no uncertain terms that our local shops will not close as a result of there ability to reduce all items until there is no competition in the area

3. That the 500 children that will soon be attending The New Rose Hill super school will not be subjected to increased car pollution ( recent survey highlights diesel to be carcinogenic ) given the proximity of the school playground from the main road this concerns me !

4. That our elderly do not lose the experience of shopping in established shops where they can ask for 2 sausage and a slice of bacon

5 That ASDA employ local people ?

6 That after 10 years ASDA  will not develop on the site which they can not do at present but after ten years are able to develop the whole 8.5 acres

7 That no LOCAL young person will ever have to commute to an out of the area college

8. That ALL residents around the site will not suffer a lesser quality of life due to noise and light pollution

9 That ALL residents do not suffer house devaluations as a result of such a vast development across the road or butting up to their garden fence

10. That several huge lorries a day  will not be trundling and winding their way through residential housing estates

11. That streets and Avenues where children play  will not be used as rat runs by ASDA shoppers who try to avoid the conjestion on Stockport Rd and place our children in danger

12 That the ASDA car park does not attract youths at night like so many other large supermarket car parks and place our elderly residents some of who are often vulnerable at risk

Not a lot to ask is it ? But guess what I am not holding out much hope ?

Now call me old fashioned but I value the above far more than 2p off a tin of beans ?  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 28, 2012, 08:08:08 PM
Remarkable. Do you object to all forms of new development anywhere in the Country with such vigour, or have you simply cut and paste the NIMBY's charter and made a couple of local Marple amendments?

If this is the 'Marple in Action' demands, perhaps they should surely be re-named 'Maple Inaction' as clearly lots of people are simply terrified of change  :o and will do anything they can to try to stop it.

Don't forget the potential for a plague of frogs generated by ASDA, or the death of the first born of each Marple resident.  ;)

Let the people attend the exhibition, see the proposals and then lets decide what extent of change in this town that we can stand.


 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 28, 2012, 08:11:56 PM
Where did I object to the development ?   I just want a few assurances is that too much to ask ?

Unless I post as MIA these are my own views which are of importance to me and my family who may stand to have their quality of life effected.   I am no Luddite just a realist  :-* and once it's done there's no turning back !  But thank you for you views which I take on board but would like to ask you what assurances do you require to ensure our community doesnt suffer as a result   Always remember once the land is sold a multiple million pound American company can and will do whatever they want, so buyer into the hype beware !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on June 28, 2012, 08:22:04 PM
Where did I object to the development ?   I just want a few assurances is that too much to ask ?

Unless I post as MIA these are my own views which are of importance to me and my family who may stand to have their quality of life effected.   I am no Luddite just a realist  :-* and once it's done there's no turning back !  

Because ultimately many of your points (traffic congestion, lorries, college future, house prices, pollution (that was a good one by the way - i hope you objected to the new Rose Hill school on that basis at the time)) can be targetted at any new type of new development on the College site. Which most people seem to think probably needs to happen at some point in the future in order for the College to survive / thrive.

There is clearly a threshold at which 'over-development' would be a problem, but I don't know what that might be yet.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 28, 2012, 08:34:37 PM
The college was offered 9.5 million by a company wanting to develop a small supermarket and a housing development on the site but this was refused by the college, no I tell a lie the corporation only went looking for one of the three large supermarkets to sell the land to.  
Whatever happens CAMSFC are guilty of not wanting to get a deal which would benefit the community, such was their greed they chased the money and rode rough shod over their neighbours.
Have you seen the salary  CAMSFC are offering for a new finance director, short of money? I think they need to cut their cloth accordingly

My view is that the land should remain as education land and if CAMSFC no longer want or afford what was given to them they should give it back to another education facility that would value the site and continue to use it for our future generations
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 28, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
No I didn't object to the New Rose Hill school to be honest I didn't know anything about it !   I wish to God I had have known because it's awful in my opinion, I am just so thankful that my family do not have to go there.   I feel sorry that the land on Hibbert Lane was not given over to The New Rose Hill to relocate to, how much better would that have been for young children to be, away from a main road, plenty of parking and open green fields for them to play on.   Somethings not right is it ? if you really really think  about it  Is it :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on June 29, 2012, 08:07:50 AM
The college was offered 9.5 million by a company wanting to develop a small supermarket and a housing development on the site but this was refused by the college,

As I have explained before, when disposing of any assets the the governors of the college have a legal obligation to sell to the highest bidder.

I feel sorry that the land on Hibbert Lane was not given over to The New Rose Hill to relocate to,

See above.  If SMBC had been prepared to offer the best price for the land, they could have had it. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on June 29, 2012, 12:13:19 PM
The comments re the statement quoted (about the consultation) by MIA also seem to be due to the fact the statement on SMBC's website changed from that originally posted, and indeed has changed again.

No mystery, no dodgy cut and paste by MIA, so there you have it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on June 29, 2012, 12:45:52 PM
Quote
http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138 (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138)
Consultation Events – Friday 6 July 2012 10am – 6pm and Saturday 7 July 10am – 5pm
Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College, Hibbert Lane Campus.

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

SMBC/College have revised the location, it's now at the Buxton Lane Campus, as that same website (http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138) now shows :-

Quote
Consultation Events – Friday 6 July 2012 10am – 6pm and Saturday 7 July 10am – 5pm
Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College, Buxton Lane Campus off Hibbert Lane.

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new build facility which includes a  new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 29, 2012, 01:01:32 PM
Oh dear.  We've had misleading information from MIA in the past, but until now it has tended to come from individuals on this forum, or talking to passers-by at the MIA tent in Market Street, and not from official MIA statements.   But this is obviously a deliberate attempt by MIA to conceal information, and it can only backfire on them, I'm afraid.    
Oh dear Dave! It seems you are the one with a red face ;D. The SMBC statement has changed again.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 29, 2012, 01:29:05 PM
The statement from SMBC has not changed at all. Only the location of the exhibition has changed.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 29, 2012, 02:18:15 PM
The statement from SMBC has not changed at all. Only the location of the exhibition has changed.

Quote
29 June 2012 - Consultation Details Changed (taken from SMBC web site):

The statement on the SMBC web site has changed since changed we copied and pasted it here on 27 June.
The new statement is detailed below and note the venue is now Buxton Lane:

Consultation Events – Friday 6 July 2012 10am – 6pm and Saturday 7 July 10am – 5pm,
Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College, Buxton Lane Campus off Hibbert Lane.

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new build facility which includes a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site. It is understood that the proposed supermarket will occupy a site smaller than the current college buildings.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.

Use this link to confirm the details as it may change again: http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138


http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm (http://www.marple-uk.com/marple-in-action/index.htm)

Without version history I'll guess we'll never know.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on June 29, 2012, 03:26:43 PM
At long last we can go and see for ourselves the plans and find out the correct information regarding the sale of the college and the new build at Buxton Lane. Having viewed the news letter and the plans I am very excited about it. I think it looks great :) Doesn't look like they have gone higher as previously misinformed on here.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 29, 2012, 03:41:10 PM
Yes, nothing higher than the current 4 stories. Looks very good
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lily on June 29, 2012, 04:17:55 PM
Just wondering HWL1973 and Tina - where have you managed to view the newsletter and plans relating to the sale of the college and the new build at Buxton Lane?

I thought we had to wait until next weekend for the 'consultation events'.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on June 29, 2012, 04:25:13 PM
At last, an informative document from the college and the immediate prospect of more, genuine, information. Let us hope this matter can now move forward without all the twaddle, "information" from "the man at the butchers", hysterical nonsense, ignorance and abuse with which the debate has been polluted over the past 18 months.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 29, 2012, 04:26:28 PM
Just wondering HWL1973 and Tina - where have you managed to view the newsletter and plans relating to the sale of the college and the new build at Buxton Lane?

I thought we had to wait until next weekend for the 'consultation events'.

Yes, there's a 5MB PDF file which has been sent out to people who'd registered an interest, looks like paper copies will go to local residents. Just college plans on there, nothing for Asda yet.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lily on June 29, 2012, 04:31:25 PM
Thanks, HWL.  Looks like I will have to wait patiently until next weekend. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 29, 2012, 04:31:51 PM
Here's a smaller version. Click it to view:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 29, 2012, 04:34:33 PM
Quote
Dear Resident

I am writing to involve you in the College’s plans for the Marple Sixth Form College. Senior managers
have recently finalised plans and have the full support of College governors.
In terms of achievement we have a record to be proud of with an A level pass rate of 99.1%,
an advanced vocational pass rate of 100%, and over 70% of leavers entering Higher Education
each year.

The Marple campus provides over 40 different subjects at Advanced level in art, performing arts,
mathematics, business and law, social sciences, sport, health and social care, English, modern foreign
languages, sciences and the humanities.These are accommodated on two Marple sites, at Hibbert
Lane and Buxton Lane.We regularly review our curriculum offer to ensure it fits with high school,
higher education and employer needs and plan to continue to offer the same breadth of opportunities
in the future.

Our staff and students perform extremely well in poor facilities but they deserve much better, as does
the local community who make good use of the College’s accommodation.
A report from external consultants, commissioned in 2007, stated that the College could not continue
to operate from the poor quality buildings and so, with the support of the Learning and Skills Council
(LSC), proposals were drawn up for the re-development of the Marple campus. However, with the
government’s abolition of the LSC, all our plans had to be abandoned as no alternative funds could
be found.

In March 2010 we again commissioned external consultants who reviewed the quality and condition
of the College’s accommodation and provided a new long-term property strategy. The property
consultants’ report shows clearly that the Marple Sixth Form College’s full curriculum can be housed
in first class accommodation on one site.

We are pleased to share with you our plans for a re-modelled campus which will offer a fantastic
environment for our students and the local community by refurbishing much of the existing Buxton
Lane site and building a new teaching block and Sports Hall to replace Hibbert Lane curriculum,
student support, sport and learning resource facilities.

The estimate for all the work is just under £13m. We hope to fund this through the sale of the
Hibbert Lane site. The College is required to obtain best price for any sale of assets and, of course,
maintain the existing open space. The College has sought funds from many sources, including the
sale of Hibbert Lane for housing (which would yield less than half the amount needed). As many of
you know, the Leeds-based supermarket, Asda, has submitted proposals to purchase the land for a
‘neighbourhood’ supermarket. The planned store will be smaller than the existing college buildings
and the current open space will be retained. This proposal would provide the College with sufficient
income to meet all development costs at no cost to the public.

Your views on our proposal for the development of the Buxton Lane campus will be much appreciated
and considered and we look forward to receiving these at our joint public exhibition in Marple on 6th
and 7th July – which the college is delighted to host on our Buxton Lane site.

I understand Asda will provide residents with details of their proposals for a new neighbourhood
supermarket and safeguarding of the open space at the Hibbert Lane site.

Yours sincerely
Christina Cassidy

Principal

This is the text of the letter on Page 1. There is a second page showing an artist's impression of the proposed new college building
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 29, 2012, 04:39:06 PM
Thanks, HWL.  Looks like I will have to wait patiently until next weekend. 
Like MIA said a long time ago, They're building up! Not good for the homes that have to look at it. What do the decision makers at the college care? They don't.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 29, 2012, 05:02:19 PM
Interesting plans.

The current Hibbert Lane site has approximately 180 parking spaces. The current Buxton Lane site has approximately 100, so that's 280 total.

The new site plan shows approximately 150 spaces.

What impact is the loss of in the region of 130 spaces (a reduction of around 46%) likely to have on parking for college users and local residents?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 29, 2012, 05:08:55 PM
Interesting plans.

The current Hibbert Lane site has approximately 180 parking spaces. The current Buxton Lane site has approximately 100, so that's 280 total.

The new site plan shows approximately 150 spaces.

What impact is the loss of in the region of 130 spaces (a reduction of around 46%) likely to have on parking for college users and local residents?

Are the parking specs at hibert lane always taken .if not that's why theres a reduction . Stop looking for problems . That's normally down to miss marples ,
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 29, 2012, 05:11:30 PM
Quote
At last, an informative document from the college and the immediate prospect of more, genuine, information. Let us hope this matter can now move forward without all the twaddle, "information" from "the man at the butchers", hysterical nonsense, ignorance and abuse with which the debate has been polluted over the past 18 months.

If the college had decided to consult the public when these plans were 1st drawn up then we could have been able to have an informed debate, only now has the college produced a glossy brochure that only contains info on the Buxton lane site, nothing about Hibbert Lane. They still haven't publicised the event at Buxton Lane next week, and how many residents are going to receive the glossy brochure?

We would all still be in the dark if it hadn't been for MIA and this excellent web site.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 29, 2012, 05:15:10 PM
Quote
Are the parking specs at hibert lane always taken .if not that's why theres a reduction . Stop looking for problems . That's normally down to miss marples ,

I think the specs are all taken by the local opticians!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on June 29, 2012, 05:15:55 PM
Are the parking specs at hibert lane always taken .if not that's why theres a reduction . Stop looking for problems . That's normally down to miss marples ,

I live very near the college site and other members of my family live even closer. Why shouldn't I look for problems? Car parking is often a problem now. If the Hibbert Lane car park is still going to be available for students to park (as you seem to be suggesting) then maybe this won't be a problem but if that is to become ASDA's car park then it certainly will.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on June 29, 2012, 05:21:53 PM
Are the parking specs at hibert lane always taken .if not that's why theres a reduction . Stop looking for problems . That's normally down to miss marples ,

I live very near the college site and other members of my family live even closer. Why shouldn't I look for problems? Car parking is often a problem now. If the Hibbert Lane car park is still going to be available for students to park (as you seem to be suggesting) then maybe this won't be a problem but if that is to become ASDA's car park then it certainly will.

I suppose this is what the consultation is for
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 29, 2012, 06:03:17 PM
Woodville Girls school was a typical ugly seventies building before it became the college.The new build part is even worse. Looks a bit like a prisoner cell block. Who wants to look at that, at the back of their property? Yes Admin, people around there have complained about inconsiderate parking. The mind boggles! >:(
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 29, 2012, 06:11:44 PM
Woodville Girls school was a typical ugly seventies building before it became the college.The new build part is even worse. Looks a bit like a prisoner cell block. Who wants to look at that, at the back of their property? Yes Admin, people around there have complained about inconsiderate parking. The mind boggles! >:(

Sour grapes .some nice ones in asda .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 29, 2012, 06:17:11 PM
The current Hibbert Lane site has approximately 180 parking spaces. The current Buxton Lane site has approximately 100, so that's 280 total.

The new site plan shows approximately 150 spaces.

What impact is the loss of in the region of 130 spaces (a reduction of around 46%) likely to have on parking for college users and local residents?

I doubt that many 6th form students can afford to run cars, so most of the parking will be for staff members. Remember that there will be a huge reduction in staff before the start of the new academic year. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on June 29, 2012, 06:27:50 PM
Quote
I doubt that many 6th form students can afford to run cars, so most of the parking will be for staff members. Remember that there will be a huge reduction in staff before the start of the new academic year. Problem solved.
Judging by the number of car's parked around the site during term time then there must be a large number of staff who all appear to be in their late teens!
Car parking has always been a problem near 6th form colleges, reducing the number of spaces on site will just make the matter worse for the surrounding area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 29, 2012, 06:44:44 PM
No ! No ! Mrs O  :o. I disagree the building looks nice !........... On paper !  Hang on a min ! It reminds me of something .   Yes got it now !  Its The Rose Hill Super School, now how good did that look on paper ?  :-\

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 29, 2012, 06:49:33 PM
Woodville Girls school was a typical ugly seventies building before it became the college.The new build part is even worse. Looks a bit like a prisoner cell block. Who wants to look at that, at the back of their property? Yes Admin, people around there have complained about inconsiderate parking. The mind boggles! >:(
There is no accounting for taste. I doubt very much that people can honestly say that the new build block is attractive. Sour grapes? I do not do "Sour Grapes".

Sour grapes .some nice ones in asda .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: bat man on June 29, 2012, 07:02:45 PM
Asda on the college site,Waitrose on the sorting office site,consultation to follow.......... :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 29, 2012, 07:07:26 PM
The current Hibbert Lane site has approximately 180 parking spaces. The current Buxton Lane site has approximately 100, so that's 280 total.

The new site plan shows approximately 150 spaces.

What impact is the loss of in the region of 130 spaces (a reduction of around 46%) likely to have on parking for college users and local residents?

I doubt that many 6th form students can afford to run cars, so most of the parking will be for staff members. Remember that there will be a huge reduction in staff before the start of the new academic year. Problem solved.
It's the bank of Mum and Dad that pays for the cars. You can see many over stuffed cars going to the colleges. If the promise of no loss of curriculum is true, why would there be a huge reduction of staff?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 29, 2012, 07:08:50 PM
Asda on the college site,Waitrose on the sorting office site,consultation to follow.......... :-\

A booths would be nice in marple
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 29, 2012, 07:11:39 PM
No ! No ! Mrs O  :o. I disagree the building looks nice !........... On paper !  Hang on a min ! It reminds me of something .   Yes got it now !  Its The Rose Hill Super School, now how good did that look on paper ?  :-\


Your way behind the times .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Marplemum on June 29, 2012, 07:56:05 PM
Asda on the college site,Waitrose on the sorting office site,consultation to follow.......... :-\

I hope so!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 29, 2012, 08:03:35 PM
No ! No ! Mrs O  :o. I disagree the building looks nice !........... On paper !  Hang on a min ! It reminds me of something .   Yes got it now !  Its The Rose Hill Super School, now how good did that look on paper ?  :-\


Your way behind the times .
Listen my loveable 'Friend of the Earth'  behind the times !  So what's behind the times of
Trying to stop even more traffic pollution
Trying to Prevent light and noise pollution
Trying To reduce traffic congestion
Trying to minimise air pollution
Trying to save teachers and support staffs jobs
The list is endless ,but I'm still at work
So I  suggest you go and shovel a bit of slack and brasso your ornaments until I'm home ! 
You cheeky young whipper snapper  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on June 29, 2012, 08:35:26 PM
Asda on the college site,Waitrose on the sorting office site,consultation to follow.......... :-\

A booths would be nice in marple
Flipping Heck Amazon,Booths and Asda are like chalk and cheese. Worth it for the creamy Lancashire though. But not sited in the middle of a residential area.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on June 29, 2012, 11:05:53 PM
Quote
At last, an informative document from the college and the immediate prospect of more, genuine, information. Let us hope this matter can now move forward without all the twaddle, "information" from "the man at the butchers", hysterical nonsense, ignorance and abuse with which the debate has been polluted over the past 18 months.

If the college had decided to consult the public when these plans were 1st drawn up then we could have been able to have an informed debate, only now has the college produced a glossy brochure that only contains info on the Buxton lane site, nothing about Hibbert Lane. They still haven't publicised the event at Buxton Lane next week, and how many residents are going to receive the glossy brochure?

We would all still be in the dark if it hadn't been for MIA and this excellent web site.

Here we go again. This isn't a glossy brochure. It is a 2 page leaflet. These plans have, presumably, just been prepared and they are now going to public consultation so now, for the first time, there can be an informed debate. The event in Buxton Lane is publicised as it is mentioned in the release. The leaflet is issued by the college and inevitably deals only with their proposals for Buxton Lane. Any proposals for the Hibbert Lane site are a matter for the potential developers. Every resident who had the sense to register their interest will have received the leaflet by now. and no, we wouldn't have still been in the dark since those who registered their interest had the information before it appeared on this forum
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 12:16:40 AM
Well said Victor M !    In the real world it's called ducking and diving !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on June 30, 2012, 07:42:02 AM

It's nice to know, Miss Marple, that you have been appointed to speak on behalf of the real world. I had assumed that, like the rest of us, you spoke only on behalf of yourself.
Hopefully, by the end of today we will know whether our elected representatives at local and national level are supportive of CAMSFC's desire to retain a facility for further education in Marple or whether they prefer our young people to look further afield.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on June 30, 2012, 08:22:42 AM
Oh dear.  We've had misleading information from MIA in the past, but until now it has tended to come from individuals on this forum, or talking to passers-by at the MIA tent in Market Street, and not from official MIA statements.   But this is obviously a deliberate attempt by MIA to conceal information, and it can only backfire on them, I'm afraid.    
Oh dear Dave! It seems you are the one with a red face ;D. The SMBC statement has changed again.

Well, on Thursday the MIA statement as quoted by Harry was this:

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.


Now it is this: 

Cheadle and Marple sixth form College and Asda have organised an exhibition for residents to find out about their plans for the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites. The College plans include a re-modelled campus on the Buxton Lane site for its students and the local community. The plans include refurbishing the Buxton buildings along with a new build facility which includes a new 6,000sq m teaching block and new sports hall. The site will be unified through a multi-use learning ‘street’ for informal and social learning and a new 3G all weather sports pitch and upgraded changing facilities.

Asda will present their plans for a neighbourhood supermarket on the Hibbert Lane site. It is understood that the proposed supermarket will occupy a site smaller than the current college buildings.

These consultation events are being run by the college and Asda, prior to the submission of a planning application. Should a planning application be made, there will be further opportunities to have your say.


...which is now the same as the Council's:   http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=138

I wonder why it changed? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 09:38:05 AM
Have you seen the price of fish !  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on June 30, 2012, 10:57:38 AM
We now see as Dave points out only in different words, that Marple Inaction have established themselvesl as an unelected, uninformed,unrepresentative, scaremongering, blackguarding, truthbending "organisation", that has no influence whatsoever on any supermarket development in Marple be it  Asda or anybody else.

It is obvious that all who do have influence take absolutely no notice of them whatsoever.

I was at an  Area Committee some months ago when some of their members were there and were having their say, which it has to be said they were entitled to. The look of absolute tedium that came across the face of the local Councillors when they were speaking was completely apparent for all to see. Councillors weren't even listening to them and I have to say they had the same effect on me as they had on the Councillors.

Their comments on this site over the last twelve months and the arrogant,  patronising, disdainful, vulgar way that they have presentd themselves makes you want to vote for the Asda  even if you don't want one just to spite MarpleInaction.

In my view they have done more to bring Asda to town than deter it. With "enemies" like MarpleInaction Asda don't need any friends.     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 30, 2012, 11:37:13 AM
Have you seen the price of fish !  ;)

It's cheaper In  asda and morrisons thats why people shop out of Marple .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 11:38:36 AM
Strong stuff but I tend to agree, there is this continual attempt to whip up worries and concerns and to totally misunderstand the process implying that that what they or others are doing can have some impact on the decision at this point.

A planning application may be submitted, currently not even that has happened, then representations can be made. We already know that a planning application on this site would not meet planning guidelines and would be declined. We then move to appeal This a a long process and efforts by MiA to imply that anything they are doing affects this is just nonesense.

There appears to me to be many CAVE dwellers in Marple Communities Against Virtually Everything.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 30, 2012, 11:42:21 AM
Strong stuff but I tend to agree, there is this continual attempt to whip up worries and concerns and to totally misunderstand the process implying that that what they or others are doing can have some impact on the decision at this point.

A planning application may be submitted, currently not even that has happened, then representations can be made. We already know that a planning application on this site would not meet planning guidelines and would be declined. We then move to appeal This a a long process and efforts by MiA to imply that anything they are doing affects this is just nonesense.

There appears to me to be many CAVE dwellers in Marple Communities Against Virtually Everything.

Good post .some of them want to go back to the dark ages .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 11:44:07 AM
Have you seen the price of fish !  ;)

It's cheaper In  asda and morrisons thats why people shop out of Marple .

And the customer service is a lot better I don't think I and many others would miss most of the shops in Marple if they did go rude traders with overpriced goods only sold when they can be bothered opening.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 01:17:40 PM
Miss Marple reporting live from the MIA stall.   

Hot of the press

Andrew Stunnel came to stall and informed us that at an asda presentation last night the proposals include  a supermarket with a George and chemist and petrol station with a roundabout at top of Edwards Way
Sorry about posting I on iPhone with failing eyesight
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 01:36:43 PM
And your point is????? Posted in such a way as to whip up concern and anxiety again.

You come across as really enjoying yourself and attempting to make yourself centre stage at all points, as said above with enemies like you ASDA does not need friends.

Your post has in reality added nothing to that that was already known.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on June 30, 2012, 01:38:51 PM
http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3925.0

 :o

I guessed the roundabout last November..




 ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 30, 2012, 02:04:40 PM
There should have been a roundabout put there many years ago. Its a nightmare trying to exit from the college, especially from the main entrance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 02:23:46 PM
Oh yes I am having a ball ! In the rain   Are you for real !  Are you aware that there are people in the community who can not attend the stall so read it on the web.  Get out of your arm chair and meet the community with your support for a supermarket.  I dare you ? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 02:45:42 PM
I don't support a supermarket on the site. I just never appointed you to be in any way spokesperson for the community or even a conduet for information. I thought I elected people on May 3rd to do that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 04:03:55 PM
Well just ignore me and my topic.    Sorted .Com!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 04:39:51 PM
We now see as Dave points out only in different words, that Marple Inaction have established themselvesl as an unelected, uninformed,unrepresentative, scaremongering, blackguarding, truthbending "organisation", that has no influence whatsoever on any supermarket development in Marple be it  Asda or anybody else.

It is obvious that all who do have influence take absolutely no notice of them whatsoever.

I was at an  Area Committee some months ago when some of their members were there and were having their say, which it has to be said they were entitled to. The look of absolute tedium that came across the face of the local Councillors when they were speaking was completely apparent for all to see. Councillors weren't even listening to them and I have to say they had the same effect on me as they had on the Councillors

Their comments on this site over the last twelve months and the arrogant,  patronising, disdainful, vulgar way that they have presentd themselves makes you want to vote for the Asda  even if you don't want one just to spite MarpleInaction.

In my view they have done more to bring Asda to town than deter it. With "enemies" like MarpleInaction Asda don't need any friends.     
Not wanting to disappoint you but sadly  :'(. I am the only one from MIA who posts on this site !  Sad but true.   Other people post as themselves and have a democratic right to their opinion.   I am sick and tired of arm chair socalists on this site.   I suggest you get out and campain for the supermarket if that's what you want! Just stop trying to discredit MIA.  If you have a fight it's with me ! Not MIA so direct  you negativity at me !  I am not fazed in the slightest by your play on words because that's all you appear to do for whatever reason best known to you  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 06:32:27 PM
Why are those who disagree with you branded "Socialist" What's particularly socialist about disagreeing with you? Please explain?

I and I think other have no problem with MiA it's you personally and your misleading statements and hectoring that people object to. You do more to damage MiA than you realise.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: NeilCorrie on June 30, 2012, 07:28:52 PM
Quote
I doubt that many 6th form students can afford to run cars, so most of the parking will be for staff members. Remember that there will be a huge reduction in staff before the start of the new academic year. Problem solved.
...
It's the bank of Mum and Dad that pays for the cars. You can see many over stuffed cars going to the colleges. If the promise of no loss of curriculum is true, why would there be a huge reduction of staff?

I daresay the strike taking place this thursday (5th July) at the the college (not a national strike, a local dispute, I understand) and continuing reduction in courses could relate to the reduction in staff.  Fewer staff, fewer students, fewer courses, so fewer car parking places required ?

Oh, and as the new ASDA is to have a chemist, that means ASDA are subject to Freedom Of Information requests now, just like the college and the council.  Just pointing this out in case anyone has any burning questions they want answering honestly and on-the-record.  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on June 30, 2012, 09:05:56 PM
Why are those who disagree with you branded "Socialist" What's particularly socialist about disagreeing with you? Please explain?

I and I think other have no problem with MiA it's you personally and your misleading statements and hectoring that people object to. You do more to damage MiA than you realise.
Wheels I don't know how long you have been using this forum but a few years ago .a certain miss marple tried to whip up frenzy and stop a certain seventeen windows development . And also the new road at the bottom of Dan bank in fact it got that bad on comments that admin had to put a block enyone posting on them .i hope he won't block what I've just said .


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 09:16:33 PM
No I am just out of being a Newbie and I didn't know she? had been vocal on those issues as well. On the road I suspect she and I would have been on opposite side again.

But I do think if people say  as she says they have to be continually challenged and reminded of their past comments.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on June 30, 2012, 09:25:11 PM
I daresay the strike taking place this thursday (5th July) at the the college (not a national strike, a local dispute, I understand) and continuing reduction in courses could relate to the reduction in staff.  Fewer staff, fewer students, fewer courses, so fewer car parking places required ?

Oh, and as the new ASDA is to have a chemist, that means ASDA are subject to Freedom Of Information requests now, just like the college and the council.  Just pointing this out in case anyone has any burning questions they want answering honestly and on-the-record.  http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/)

Where on earth have you come up with this from Neil?

I've just spoken to a member of staff from the college, and I can assure you that everyone is in work that day as normal.

Re your second point. Since when did an organisation considering having a facility make it subject to FOI. They haven't even put in a planning proposal.

Moderated. Howard
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on June 30, 2012, 09:33:04 PM
She's pleased she's raised awareness  ;) and she's thick skinned ! And she's not a she  :o lol x
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on June 30, 2012, 09:39:45 PM
Now answer the question Why are those who disagree with you branded a Socialist?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 01, 2012, 08:14:13 AM
In the past I too have been amused to be branded an armchair socialist by Miss M.  From her use of the word 'socialist', I think we can safely assume that Miss M is not a Labour voter.   

If she is in fact a Tory, one really amusing thing about all this fuss is that the only reason the college is in a position to sell some land is because of the Further and Higher Education Act (1993), which removed sixth form colleges from local authority control.  That was a Tory bill, of course, opposed by 'armchair socialists' at the time.   If the 'armchair socialists' had had their way, the bill would not have been passed, and the college would still be controlled by SMBC.  It would now be much more accountable to the local community, and our councillors would be able to stop it selling off land to a supermarket.

Funny old world......     :D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 01, 2012, 11:00:29 AM
We now see as Dave points out only in different words, that Marple Inaction have established themselvesl as an unelected, uninformed,unrepresentative, scaremongering, blackguarding, truthbending "organisation", that has no influence whatsoever on any supermarket development in Marple be it  Asda or anybody else.

It is obvious that all who do have influence take absolutely no notice of them whatsoever.

I was at an  Area Committee some months ago when some of their members were there and were having their say, which it has to be said they were entitled to. The look of absolute tedium that came across the face of the local Councillors when they were speaking was completely apparent for all to see. Councillors weren't even listening to them and I have to say they had the same effect on me as they had on the Councillors

Their comments on this site over the last twelve months and the arrogant,  patronising, disdainful, vulgar way that they have presentd themselves makes you want to vote for the Asda  even if you don't want one just to spite MarpleInaction.

In my view they have done more to bring Asda to town than deter it. With "enemies" like MarpleInaction Asda don't need any friends.     
Not wanting to disappoint you but sadly  :'(. I am the only one from MIA who posts on this site !  Sad but true.   Other people post as themselves and have a democratic right to their opinion.   I am sick and tired of arm chair socalists on this site.   I suggest you get out and campain for the supermarket if that's what you want! Just stop trying to discredit MIA.  If you have a fight it's with me ! Not MIA so direct  you negativity at me !  I am not fazed in the slightest by your play on words because that's all you appear to do for whatever reason best known to you  :-*

 Miss M,

  I wasn't really criticizing you (although if the cap fits) I was criticizing MarpleInaction, you elevate yourself to a station that you don't hold, if you think my comments were aimed at you. I agree everybody does have a right to their own opinion and that's mine. As for being an "armchair socialist", I don't even think that you know what that means. 

It really is about time MarpleInaction left the good, intelligent people of Marple to make up their own minds about the supermarket issue. We have our own elected representatives. That's the point really, that you and your colleagues don't seem to understand you are not elected, you are self - appointed. Have your views by all means but stop trying to bully others into having the same ones.

If you want to claim to represent the community - then stand for the Council, there were elections in May and I didn't notice any MarpleInaction candidates. You claim to have all these supporters yet you couldn't even field one single candidate.   

As for being "sick and tired" (and this is for you) don't you think that you spend an awful lot of time feeling this way or being "infuriated" or having your "blood boil" or being in some rage about something ? Is it a good way to live ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 01, 2012, 11:14:43 AM
We were asked to NOT field a candidate to stand  (just for the record)

But  hey!  it's the Sabbath  and 'Stone Roses ' so give me both barrels !    I will have to beg my leave and leave my opponents to argue amongst themselves !  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 01, 2012, 11:28:54 AM
I didn't think they,your opponents, were arguing, I thought they were in fact largely in agreement about you and your tactics.

Excellent post Simone
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 01, 2012, 05:14:32 PM
If it is true, as reported, that Asda plan to include a petrol station with their proposed neighbourhood supermarket, then that is good news for Marple motorists.

Today the petrol stations in Marple were charging 132.9 for regular unleaded. Asda charge 127.7 nationwide for the same thing. A saving of 5.2p per litre. Thats quite a saving over a year for the average motorist.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 01, 2012, 06:11:29 PM
Quote
Today the petrol stations in Marple were charging 132.9 for regular unleaded. Asda charge 127.7 nationwide for the same thing. A saving of 5.2p per litre. That's quite a saving over a year for the average motorist.

I think you will find that ASDA (along with all other supermarkets) set their price according to the site and local competition and not on a national basis. So they will undercut the local competition but not be as cheap as say Tesco in Stockport or Morrison's in Hyde. Downside is however that both local garages will close and the view you will get as you drive into Marple will be that of large derelict sites. Some will think that that's a price worth paying some will not, however the decision to grant planning permission will only be decided on planning grounds. They (planning grounds) do not include the price of a litre of petrol or the price of food!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on July 01, 2012, 06:25:38 PM
Quote
Today the petrol stations in Marple were charging 132.9 for regular unleaded. Asda charge 127.7 nationwide for the same thing. A saving of 5.2p per litre. That's quite a saving over a year for the average motorist.

I think you will find that ASDA (along with all other supermarkets) set their price according to the site and local competition and not on a national basis. So they will undercut the local competition but not be as cheap as say Tesco in Stockport or Morrison's in Hyde. Downside is however that both local garages will close and the view you will get as you drive into Marple will be that of large derelict sites. Some will think that that's a price worth paying some will not, however the decision to grant planning permission will only be decided on planning grounds. They (planning grounds) do not include the price of a litre of petrol or the price of food!

Just like the Esso in Bredbury immediately closed once Morrisons opened up their petrol station down the road. Poor old Arthur Shell and Ernest Texaco and Sons won't be able to compete in Marple that's for sure.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: thebigshed on July 01, 2012, 06:33:01 PM
I never use either of the two Marple petrol stations unless absolutely necessary and then only to buy enough fuel until I can visit a cheaper supermarket petrol station. How many people pay more than they have to for fuel.  I would hate to see the independent shops put out of business by aggressive and unfair price undercutting but I don't feel the same way about the petrol stations. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 01, 2012, 08:07:31 PM
I think you will find that ASDA (along with all other supermarkets) set their price according to the site and local competition and not on a national basis.

Victor, you really are a star with your observations.

See http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-fuel-price-cuts-at-asda.17973686 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-fuel-price-cuts-at-asda.17973686)
Extract: "From today customers at Asda's 196 filling stations will pay no more than 127.7p a litre for petrol and no more than 132.7p a litre for diesel."

or

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/supermarket-giants-to-slash-fuel-prices-7880731.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/supermarket-giants-to-slash-fuel-prices-7880731.html)
Extract: "From tomorrow customers at Asda's 196 filling stations will pay no more than 127.7p a litre for petrol"

or

http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/we-re-leading-the-way-again-with-another-2p-cut-in-fuel-prices (http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/we-re-leading-the-way-again-with-another-2p-cut-in-fuel-prices)
Extract: "From tomorrow (Tuesday, 26th June) you won’t pay more than 127.7p for a litre of unleaded and 132.7p per litre of diesel at any of our 196 petrol stations."

There are many other similar reports if you care to look for them. They're called facts.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 01, 2012, 08:38:04 PM
I think you will find that ASDA (along with all other supermarkets) set their price according to the site and local competition and not on a national basis.

Victor, you really are a star with your observations.

See http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-fuel-price-cuts-at-asda.17973686 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/transport/new-fuel-price-cuts-at-asda.17973686)
Extract: "From today customers at Asda's 196 filling stations will pay no more than 127.7p a litre for petrol and no more than 132.7p a litre for diesel."

or

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/supermarket-giants-to-slash-fuel-prices-7880731.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/supermarket-giants-to-slash-fuel-prices-7880731.html)
Extract: "From tomorrow customers at Asda's 196 filling stations will pay no more than 127.7p a litre for petrol"

or

http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/we-re-leading-the-way-again-with-another-2p-cut-in-fuel-prices (http://your.asda.com/news-and-blogs/we-re-leading-the-way-again-with-another-2p-cut-in-fuel-prices)
Extract: "From tomorrow (Tuesday, 26th June) you won’t pay more than 127.7p for a litre of unleaded and 132.7p per litre of diesel at any of our 196 petrol stations."

There are many other similar reports if you care to look for them. They're called facts.



Harry - think you've misinterpreted the news stories.

"No more than 127.7p a litre" means that's the maximum price they'll charge.  They still vary the price depending on location and local competition, as Victor pointed out.

For example, unleaded, ASDA Ashton New Road 127.7p, ASDA Chadderton 126.7p, ASDA Isle Of Dogs 124.7p.   These figures are taken from ASDA's own website.

So Victor is indeed a star with his observations.  Fact.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 01, 2012, 08:47:58 PM
You are right sgk.

Victor, please accept my apologies. I misunderstood your post. You're correct, we may be paying even less than 127.7p per litre when Asda arrive.

Don't worry about the other petrol stations. They'll just have to adjust their prices and stop overcharging us.

 :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 01, 2012, 10:07:10 PM
mm why do you waste your time and effort informing the people on here  who just feed off your information and belittle you.   Without you they would get to know nowt, tell them nothing and let then argue and bicker amongst themselves.   that's my advice
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 02, 2012, 07:48:29 AM
Harry and HWL are right - the other two petrol stations in Marple will reduce their prices to be closer to (or even match) the Asda price, just as the Esso garage in Bredbury matches Morrisons' price.  Being in central locations with more passing traffic they may get away with charging 1p or so more. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 02, 2012, 04:31:31 PM
Quote
You are right sgk.

Victor, please accept my apologies. I misunderstood your post. You're correct, we may be paying even less than 127.7p per litre when Asda arrive.

Harry, I'll accept your apology this time but along with a number of other people on this forum I don't think you have read my post in the correct context.
Quote
I think you will find that ASDA (along with all other supermarkets) set their price according to the site and local competition and not on a national basis. So they will undercut the local competition but not be as cheap as say Tesco in Stockport or Morrison's in Hyde. Downside is however that both local garages will close and the view you will get as you drive into Marple will be that of large derelict sites. Some will think that that's a price worth paying some will not, however the decision to grant planning permission will only be decided on planning grounds. They (planning grounds) do not include the price of a litre of petrol or the price of food!

As the 1st person to raise the issue of CAMSFC wanting to sell the Hibbert Lane site to a Supermarket (which is now nearly 6 years ago) I was trying to move the debate on to the planning grounds that the application will either pass or fail on. The price of a litre of fuel or a chicken drumstick does not come into the equation. I am becoming very disappointed in the way this forum is being used by people of all opinions in trying to out shout each other rather than using constructive debate (that and the appalling grammar, syntax and spelling)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 02, 2012, 05:15:21 PM
I have asked for the following  information from SMBC hope it's useful to some people like myself who has no idea about planning.  The following is a reply I have received today from SMBC  planning department.

 An Area Committee cannot approve a planning application which is deemed to be against policy. So if the application is against policy, and for whatever reason either Officers or Area Committee Members wish to support it, it will need to go to Planning and Highways for determination. However the Area Committee can simply refuse the application if it is contrary to policy without further reference.

The other factor is size. If the application is more than 5000m sq floorspace, or greater than 3 hectares in area, then it must go to Planning and Highways Committee.

I hope this is clear. The following link might be helpful in explaining the position further


http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2994/developmentcontrol/delegationofplanningapps
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 02, 2012, 05:44:22 PM
the Area Committee can simply refuse the application if it is contrary to policy without further reference.

So this means that Area Committee could throw out this application and stop it going any further?  Is that correct?   Even though some members have compromised their position by coming out against it beforehand?  If so, it could give powerful grounds for Asda's appeal to the Planning Inspectorate! 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 02, 2012, 07:56:31 PM
I think Victor M is correct this nonsense  needs addressing,  so I have now made a decision,  due to the awful  comments I have received, to just post  on the forum to share information to some of the community who contact the Action line for information who I then direct to this site.
In my profession I would not tolerate being verbally abused and have the power of a legal team to prevent it, so it makes a nonsense to allow myself to be subject to some forum members comments which quite frankly are appalling.   I know they  would not dare to speak to me or indeed anyone else that way face to face, they only feel brave and powerful behind a computer screen,how sad.       So from now on I will just post and will not get drawn into debates.  Thanks Victor in making me see sence  :-*
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on July 02, 2012, 10:13:33 PM
As published on the Marple Inaction website:
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Opponents-celebrate-Asda-sinks-plans-store-estuary/story-11796593-detail/story.html (http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Opponents-celebrate-Asda-sinks-plans-store-estuary/story-11796593-detail/story.html)

... then read the comments from the townspeople following it!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 02, 2012, 10:16:00 PM
It's now over 12 months since MIA formed and it's been a hell of a journey for everyone who has given their time or  expertise to assist.   On the stall on Sat a few people asked if they could join MIA and wanted to know how to become involved.  It's easy just contact by a personal message , contact the action line or I am sure Admin will pass your details on.  MIA is the community and as many people who assist us the better.  You don't have to have any particular skill, none of us had ever done anything like this before,we just need people who feel as passionate about preventing a supermarket on Hibbert Lane as we do  to join us.  
The latest post from Admin about Exmouth gives MIA a boost it shows it can be done, Exmouth has just proved it.  If you can spare sometime, even a couple of hours  MIA would love to hear from you.  
The fight has only just begun, we are now at the stage where we need as much support as possible, so if you can get in touch!  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 02, 2012, 10:59:37 PM
 MIA is the community

No it isn't, and that is at the heart of the problem that some of us have with MIA.  We respect your point of view, but please don't claim to speak on behalf of the people of Marple when you have not earned the right to do so. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 02, 2012, 11:30:51 PM
Yes sorry forgot MIA number which is.  07790 419494  thanks for reminding me !  It's been a long day !

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 02, 2012, 11:36:31 PM
It's now over 12 months since MIA formed and it's been a hell of a journey for everyone who has given their time or expertise to assist.   On the stall on Sat a few people asked if they could join MIA and wanted to know how to become involved. It's easy just contact by a personal message , contact the action line or I am sure Admin will pass your details on.  MIA is now a recognised  community group  and as many people who assist us the better.  You don't have to have any particular skill, none of us had ever done anything like this before,we just need people who feel as passionate about preventing a supermarket on Hibbert Lane as we do  to join us.  
The latest post from Admin about Exmouth gives MIA a boost it shows it can be done, Exmouth has just proved it.  If you can spare sometime, even a couple of hours  MIA would love to hear from you.  
The fight has only just begun, we are now at the stage where we need as much support as possible, so if you can get in touch!  

spot the difference  :-*.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on July 02, 2012, 11:42:05 PM
 MIA is the community

No it isn't, and that is at the heart of the problem that some of us have with MIA.  We respect your point of view, but please don't claim to speak on behalf of the people of Marple when you have not earned the right to do so. 

Some of us? You speak for yourself
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 02, 2012, 11:54:12 PM
You continue to damage MiA with such cheap comments.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 03, 2012, 06:44:52 AM
I have asked for the following  information from SMBC hope it's useful to some people like myself who has no idea about planning.  The following is a reply I have received today from SMBC  planning department.

 An Area Committee cannot approve a planning application which is deemed to be against policy. So if the application is against policy, and for whatever reason either Officers or Area Committee Members wish to support it, it will need to go to Planning and Highways for determination. However the Area Committee can simply refuse the application if it is contrary to policy without further reference.

The other factor is size. If the application is more than 5000m sq floorspace, or greater than 3 hectares in area, then it must go to Planning and Highways Committee.

I hope this is clear. The following link might be helpful in explaining the position further


The key for the AC acting as Council decision maker is with the local Councillors. Correct me if I am wrong but at the time of writing we have three Councillors who have publicly stated they are against the development ( I hasten to add this was before any plans were submitted) but we also have three Councillors who have not declared one way or another. If six local Councillors (let us also rememember that three of them are on the Executive) declare against, then that is a very powerful lobby for the rest of the Council to ignore...surely too powerful. Has anybody asked the three undeclared Councillors where they stand?   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 03, 2012, 08:49:44 AM
]

Some of us? You speak for yourself


and he speaks for others as well      QED  "...some of us"
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 03, 2012, 09:00:44 AM
As published on the Marple Inaction website:
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Opponents-celebrate-Asda-sinks-plans-store-estuary/story-11796593-detail/story.html (http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Opponents-celebrate-Asda-sinks-plans-store-estuary/story-11796593-detail/story.html)

... then read the comments from the townspeople following it!


Thanks for that Hollins. The comments following that story are very interesting. It looks like a minority group of self proclaimed 'community representatives' have managed to kill-off any chances of Exmouth prospering.

There would appear to be many similarities to our current position in Marple, from a petition signed by non residents to a dying town centre.

I thought the following from an ex local shop owner very pertinent:
Quote
... the people who didn't want the Asda are largely retirees with pleanty of time to shop where they fancy and organsie protests - those that want the Asda have busy lives (one reason they want it) and no time to organise NIMBY complaints, especially when a dead town centre forces us to shop out of town for many itmes.
Please forgive the spelling mistakes above, they are from the original comment and it would be wrong to alter something I am quoting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 03, 2012, 09:07:33 AM
I stand to be corrected and please feel most welcome to do so but the way I see things going now are this way.

Asda & C&MSFC will hold their "consultation", although it isn't really a consultation is it ? It's more a ...."this is what we're doing if you like it great but if you don't tough"!

Nevertheless, everybody will see that the new College isn't going to be 100 metre high and that the new Asda isn't going to be half the size of Marple. So public resistance will diminish somewhat. They will then submit a joint planning application which the Council will probably reject on the grounds that it is against their planning policy. Three Councillors have spoken out against the development so they are not going to now change their minds, not in public anyway.

Asda will appeal to the Inspectors on the grounds that their application is an enabling one that is not really about an Asda store it is actually about enabling the College to provide the best facilities for its students. No Asda - No College. So it will appear that if you are against the Asda you are also against the College. The College will join up with Asda and maintain that this is true. So the case is very strong for Asda/C&MSFC. Resistance groups such as MarpleInaction are futile and they may as well go home now. The only possible problem for Asda could be if something happens on Chadwick street but this seems to have gone quiet for the moment.

 

     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 03, 2012, 09:24:14 AM
Miss M,

you say that MIA were asked ..."to NOT field a Candidate"... in the last election, asked by whom??
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 03, 2012, 09:27:22 AM
Quote
Asda will appeal to the Inspectors on the grounds that their application is an enabling one that is not really about an Asda store it is actually about enabling the College to provide the best facilities for its students. No Asda - No College. So it will appear that if you are against the Asda you are also against the College. The College will join up with Asda and maintain that this is true. So the case is very strong for Asda/C&MSFC.
simonesaffron, most of your comments are correct apart from the last bit, once a planning application has been made the only rejections by the council or subsequent appeals have to be based on PLANNING GROUNDS AS SET OUT IN LAW and not on anything else, education and facilities for students have nothing to do with planning regulations and guidelines. Wallmart may very well try and market their proposals this way but that should be seen for what they are.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 03, 2012, 09:27:29 AM
Asda will appeal to the Inspectors on the grounds that their application is an enabling one that is not really about an Asda store it is actually about enabling the College to provide the best facilities for its students. No Asda - No College.

That's an interesting scenario, and I understand the point Simone is making when she describes the proposed supermarket as an 'enabling development'.   However, in my (limited) experience of enabling developments, they are usually on the same site as the principal development, and integral to it.  So, for example, the shopping mall and car park next to the Lowry Centre in Salford will presumably have been an enabling development, and part of a single mega-planning application.   Not sure SMBC would want to deal with camsfc and Asda in the same way here, though.  And Victor is surely correct when he says that the wider issue of educational facilities will cut no ice with the Planning Inspectorate, whose decision will be taken solely on planning grounds. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 03, 2012, 10:06:38 AM
As I understand it the planning application for a supermarket on Hibbert Lane is likely to be rejected because its not within the district centre. I checked this with one of our councillors and he agreed.

I then asked him, what is to stop the council from extending the district centre boundaries so that it encompassed the proposed site? Nothing all all, was the reply. This was done when the Co-op wanted to build the Ridgedale Centre on Hollins Lane.

So, if the council want to, there is nothing at all to stop them from approving the development and allowing our college to provide facilities that are fit for purpose.

Lets just hope that, when the time comes, common sense prevails and Marple can move forward.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 03, 2012, 10:30:55 AM
Surely the college and Asda HAVE to be 2 applications as they are on different sites,  so they  cant link up as a joint application.

I've got to say never heard the term "resistance group" used to describe people in this way, i like to think of them as a campaign group!!  A group of concerned people standing up for themselves, I might no agree with them but they have made themselves a concern for the authorities and they keep us talking about it, so not that there was any chance of it, but there is never a situation where ordinary people should pack up and go home and not fight... some of them DO win!!

enabling development.  The college works as it is, so its not enabling them, just improving facilities a bit.

As for standing at the election, why on earth would they? It costs money!!  People have not donated money so they can stand for election, and I guess they havent raised enough for that anyway.
There is no point in a campaign group fielding a candidate unless it forwards that particular campaign. They are a little campaign group fighting their corner  a corner that doesnt really have any political bias, fighting a corporation who doesnt care who it deals in politics so even if they could win an election it would not forward the campaign at all. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 03, 2012, 11:41:08 AM
 MIA is the community

No it isn't, and that is at the heart of the problem that some of us have with MIA.  We respect your point of view, but please don't claim to speak on behalf of the people of Marple when you have not earned the right to do so. 

Wants again another good posting
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 03, 2012, 11:45:56 AM
As published on the Marple Inaction website:
http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Opponents-celebrate-Asda-sinks-plans-store-estuary/story-11796593-detail/story.html (http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Opponents-celebrate-Asda-sinks-plans-store-estuary/story-11796593-detail/story.html)

... then read the comments from the townspeople following it!


Thanks for that Hollins. The comments following that story are very interesting. It looks like a minority group of self proclaimed 'community representatives' have managed to kill-off any chances of Exmouth prospering.

There would appear to be many similarities to our current position in Marple, from a petition signed by non residents to a dying town centre.

I thought the following from an ex local shop owner very pertinent:
Quote
... the people who didn't want the Asda are largely retirees with pleanty of time to shop where they fancy and organsie protests - those that want the Asda have busy lives (one reason they want it) and no time to organise NIMBY complaints, especially when a dead town centre forces us to shop out of town for many itmes.
Please forgive the spelling mistakes above, they are from the original comment and it would be wrong to alter something I am quoting.

I do know ex mouth and like you say it's dying the town centre is terrible . Most of the no voters and some of the yes voters don't shop in marple anyway .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 03, 2012, 03:59:36 PM
As I said I stand to be corrected and I am more than happy for it to happen. I am not a planning expert neither am I an expert on College buildings so I will defer to Dave and Victor who obviously know more about these matters than me. Apart from one issue which is the issue of the joint application. I have done a little research and i believe that I am right in saying that it doesn't matter that the two buildings are not integral and it doesn't matter that they are on two different sites, Asda/CMSFC can still put a joint application in  and that's what I believe they will do. I can't prove it until it happens. Anyway we won't have long to wait - a few weeks by my estimation.

Lisa, it doesn't really matter how we describe MarpleInaction. I don't mind calling them a campaign group although they haven't put up much of one. Whether they go home or not is their choice. They are not going to take any notice of me any more than I am of them and Asda/C&MSFC/SMBC are not going to take any notice of any of us and that also includes you. It's been said on this website before but  MIA can March from now until Christmas and gather a petition as thick as the Oxford Dictionary, it won't make any difference to the triumvirate that I've just mentioned. Now if they had a Councillor in place it might. It would certainly have had more influence than marching, that's for soldiers.

I would be most interested in what MarpleInaction propose to do next to challenge this situation ( I don't expect a response)  as I think their locker is empty but there has never been much in it anyway but as I say I stand to be corrected.

There is another aspect here which quite shocked me when I realised it, but it is not completely impossible that the opposition members of the Planning Committee could successfully permit the application for mainly political reasons. They would need to bring at least one of the LibDems on the committee over to their cause - but that's been done before.         

                 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 03, 2012, 07:53:25 PM
Party's arew not allowed whip on planning matters each member has to reach their own decison based on planning issues. Thus what you  suggest would leave the decision open to challenge.

Party groups are not even to have a pre-meeting
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on July 03, 2012, 08:16:28 PM
Having seen the Asda plan what admin has put on a separate post. i think it looks great and not the big scary monster as it has been made out to be, I dont see the 6 football pitches fitting in it! well done Asda
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on July 03, 2012, 08:17:53 PM
As I said I stand to be corrected and I am more than happy for it to happen. I am not a planning expert neither am I an expert on College buildings so I will defer to Dave and Victor who obviously know more about these matters than me. Apart from one issue which is the issue of the joint application. I have done a little research and i believe that I am right in saying that it doesn't matter that the two buildings are not integral and it doesn't matter that they are on two different sites, Asda/CMSFC can still put a joint application in  and that's what I believe they will do. I can't prove it until it happens. Anyway we won't have long to wait - a few weeks by my estimation.

Lisa, it doesn't really matter how we describe MarpleInaction. I don't mind calling them a campaign group although they haven't put up much of one. Whether they go home or not is their choice. They are not going to take any notice of me any more than I am of them and Asda/C&MSFC/SMBC are not going to take any notice of any of us and that also includes you. It's been said on this website before but  MIA can March from now until Christmas and gather a petition as thick as the Oxford Dictionary, it won't make any difference to the triumvirate that I've just mentioned. Now if they had a Councillor in place it might. It would certainly have had more influence than marching, that's for soldiers.

I would be most interested in what MarpleInaction propose to do next to challenge this situation ( I don't expect a response)  as I think their locker is empty but there has never been much in it anyway but as I say I stand to be corrected.

There is another aspect here which quite shocked me when I realised it, but it is not completely impossible that the opposition members of the Planning Committee could successfully permit the application for mainly political reasons. They would need to bring at least one of the LibDems on the committee over to their cause - but that's been done before.         

                 

you was correct about the joint application Wheels
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 03, 2012, 08:21:37 PM
Miss M,

you say that MIA were asked ..."to NOT field a Candidate"... in the last election, asked by whom??

Will someone from MIA please answer Simone's post?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 03, 2012, 09:54:50 PM
In the ASDA document, it states that it will be "slightly" bigger than the Co-op.
25,000 sq ft sales area as opposed to 17,000 sq ft.
My maths isn't brilliant but that is just less than 50% bigger, so a bit more than slightly bigger.

The questionnaire on the back is an embarrassment. 

For Example.

5 Would the residents have of Marple like cheaper petrol ? No we would like it more expensive if possible please, at least £1.50 a Litre.

6. Asda will safe guard the open space. They have no choice in that do they?               

There is no mention of a Pharmacy as mentioned in previous posts.

I have posted my comments regarding the "alleged" reduction traffic on more than one occasion.
Asda say they only think it will reduce traffic!!!I still disagree.

"Local towns have thrived when a new supermarket has been built".

Bredbury hasn't thrived since Morrisons was built, Bredbury has no centre, there is just more Traffic Jams which are caused by people driving through it partly to get to & from Morrisons.
Hyde, since Asda was built there, the market has nearly vanished and many more smaller shops have closed
or become fast food places.

I honestly don't think we need another supermarket, maybe the ideal solution would be that Asda would take over the Co-op site ?

Admittedly I am biased given where I live, with both the expansion of Buxton and the "proposed" Asda
have I believe give a negative effect on my neighbourhood.

The New Supermarket is a convenience and not a necessity, it does not mean our quality of life will improve or our town will be a better place to live.

 

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 03, 2012, 10:31:22 PM
 An Area Committee cannot approve a planning application which is deemed to be against policy. So if the application is against policy, and for whatever reason either Officers or Area Committee Members wish to support it, it will need to go to Planning and Highways for determination. However the Area Committee can simply refuse the application if it is contrary to policy without further reference.

The other factor is size. If the application is more than 5000m sq floorspace, or greater than 3 hectares in area, then it must go to Planning and Highways Committee.

I hope this is clear. The following link might be helpful in explaining the position further


http://www.stockport.gov.uk/2013/2994/developmentcontrol/delegationofplanningapps.    :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 03, 2012, 10:43:44 PM
Difficult for Area Committee to make a decison in this case Miss M as so many of its members have spoken out against it and have therefore excluded themselves from the decision making process.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 03, 2012, 10:46:57 PM
Not really as 3 have not said anything as yet. 

The council have confirmed it can be determined at an area meeting.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 03, 2012, 10:57:18 PM
My heart goes out to all those living around the area.  Who would want a supermarket opposite their home or a roundabout outside their front door.   MIA action line has had concerned residents from the Rosehill, Cross Lane, Church Lane,  Edwards way and Brindley Ave  area worried about their streets / roads  becoming 'Rat Runs'. MIA have no information about traffic or redevelopment of roads although we suspect they will be known to planning
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 03, 2012, 11:12:53 PM
I would be interested to know what misinformation MIA have spread?  If people mean the swimming baths being demolished etc this was never put out by MIA.  6 football pitches could fit on the site to be developed.  Buxton lane campus is being developed upwards. 

I am not trying to defend MIA but in all honesty they have tried to give us what information they can when they get it.  Other people who choose to comment on here, as I do, do so of their own free will and not on behalf of or for MIA. There are comments on here that are speculation but looking back they have not been that far off the mark even for those 'spreading gossip'!  Almost everyone on the forum is guilty to some extent.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 03, 2012, 11:25:30 PM
Its not misinformation solely that concerns people I think it is that MiA tries to make it appear that in some way they speak for the people of Marple, are indeed representative. We have elected Councillors who went to the trouble of getting elected who fill that role they are who we should be working through not a group who clearly do not enjoy the confidence of many local people and whom a number of might as local traders be seen as having their own personal agenda.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 03, 2012, 11:29:40 PM
Elected persons cannot get too involved as they cannot vote in any subsequent consultation.

MIA is not, as I understand it, a bunch of business people, but people from all walks of life who are concerned about the future of Marple. 

I also think the amount of support they have had is astounding and the petition signatures prove it-nearly all are from those within Marple.  MIA purports to represent those who have confirmed their support for MIA who are in the majority people of Marple.   

Slightly pedantic to pull them up on it in all honesty, there is another campaign you could join if you wanted to. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 03, 2012, 11:34:00 PM
I don't necessarily disagree with the objectives just the bullying and hectoring way they have gone about it and the very clear self interest of a number of their leading members.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 03, 2012, 11:36:00 PM
Fair enough Wheels.  I don't personally feel they have bullied people from what I have seen passing the tent.

Essentially it is clearly an emotive topic which will mean some, myself included sometimes, will become quite passionate about it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 03, 2012, 11:54:22 PM
Not really as 3 have not said anything as yet. 

The council have confirmed it can be determined at an area meeting.

How do we know that the outstanding three will not support Asda ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 03, 2012, 11:55:42 PM
Its not misinformation solely that concerns people I think it is that MiA tries to make it appear that in some way they speak for the people of Marple, are indeed representative. We have elected Councillors who went to the trouble of getting elected who fill that role they are who we should be working through not a group who clearly do not enjoy the confidence of many local people and whom a number of might as local traders be seen as having their own personal agenda.

The moment councillors speak out for or against such a development means they are prejudiced and therefore unable to take part in further council debates on the matter.  Crazy, but them's the rules.  So kinda precludes them from any campaigning (for or against a development) on your behalf.

Instead, take a look at the Tescopoly : Local campaigns against supermarkets (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=213&Itemid=103) or Tescopoly : Take Action (http://www.tescopoly.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=205) site.  The advice given there is to form a campaign group.

Or take a look at the Friends Of The Earth "How to…oppose a supermarket planning application" (http://www.foe.co.uk/resource/briefings/campaigning_against_supermarkets.pdf) paper.  The advice given there is to form a campaign group.

Or take a look at the Supermarkets and the Planning System : Understanding the planning system (http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=2357) site.  The advice given there is to form a campaign group.

Or take a look at the CHECKOUT CHUCKOUT: A DIY Guide to Opposing Supermarket Developments (http://www.gaff.org.uk/?lid=1916) site.  The advice given there is to form a campaign group.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 03, 2012, 11:56:12 PM
Simone, we don't.  I never said they would.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 03, 2012, 11:57:23 PM
My heart goes out to all those living around the area.  Who would want a supermarket opposite their home or a roundabout outside their front door.   MIA action line has had concerned residents from the Rosehill, Cross Lane, Church Lane,  Edwards way and Brindley Ave  area worried about their streets / roads  becoming 'Rat Runs'. MIA have no information about traffic or redevelopment of roads although we suspect they will be known to planning

What does MIA plan to do about it ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Maria on July 03, 2012, 11:59:22 PM
What can MIA do about it? 

They campaign to make people aware and petition etc but it is for the council to decide and failing that if it is referred on, the planning bods deal with it.  Public opiniong is considered but is by no means deciding factor.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 03, 2012, 11:59:32 PM
ASDA have had a good psychologist  preparing that  questionnaire do they think we are stupid ?  They all appear to be trick questions leading to their desired answer.   Nice try ASDA  ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 04, 2012, 12:07:58 AM
What does MIA plan to do about it ?

Campaign.  http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=4303.msg25035;topicseen#msg25035 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=4303.msg25035;topicseen#msg25035)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 04, 2012, 12:11:49 AM
What can MIA do about it?  

They campaign to make people aware and petition etc but it is for the council to decide and failing that if it is referred on, the planning bods deal with it.  Public opiniong is considered but is by no means deciding factor.

Maria, there cannot be a man,woman nor child in Marple that is not aware of the Asda situation. Public awareness is at its highest. What are you going to do with this petition when you've compiled it ?   Who will you give it to ? What will they do with it ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 04, 2012, 12:13:01 AM
Don't believe the hype about CAMSFC their finances look fine, they are functioning, they are always informing us how good their students are performing   There's a job currently up for grabs for a new finance director at CAMSFC with a salary of around £68.000.  If it's not broke why fix it, at the expense of a lesser quality of life for some 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 04, 2012, 12:28:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rez28ZS89dY  Just a reminder of what could be for the people of Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 04, 2012, 08:03:41 AM
 There's a job currently up for grabs for a new finance director at CAMSFC with a salary of around £68.000.

I'm surprised that an FD commands so little.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 04, 2012, 08:11:06 AM
I would be interested to know what misinformation MIA have spread? 

Telling people that the plan to sell off Hibbert Lane and consolidate in new/refurbished premises at Buxton Lane is a 'smokescreen' for the real plan, which is to move out of Marple completely. 

Don't believe the hype about CAMSFC their finances look fine, they are functioning, they are always informing us how good their students are performing   There's a job currently up for grabs for a new finance director at CAMSFC with a salary of around £68.000.  If it's not broke why fix it, at the expense of a lesser quality of life for some 

Correct.  The college's financial position is reasonably stable - in so far as any college's position is stable in these straightened times!  The issue is not, and has never been, that the college is short of money.  The issue is that it needs to improve its inefficient, poor-quality and unsuitable premises, in a converted 80-year-old secondary modern school which will become increasingly costly to run. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 04, 2012, 08:21:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rez28ZS89dY  Just a reminder of what could be for the people of Marple.

And are you one of the people of Marple yourself???????????
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 04, 2012, 09:54:20 AM
Party's arew not allowed whip on planning matters each member has to reach their own decison based on planning issues. Thus what you  suggest would leave the decision open to challenge.

Party groups are not even to have a pre-meeting


Wheels they are politicians.  They lobby, they huddle in groups, they meet in the pub, in the street, at the bus stop, in town hall corners. They've always got an agenda and plans a,b & c.  They call on whips when it suits them and ignore them when it doesn't.

All I'm saying is that to get one over on the Libdems in Marple it is quite conceivable that opposition politicians on the Planning Committee would try and push the ASDA through but they would need a LibDEM ally on the Committee . Who is actually on that committee, does anyone know?  isn't Andrew Bispham vice chair, maybe that was last year, I'm not sure. If he is, he's a Libdem and he's is one of the  Marple silent three, his silence was probably because of pre-determination but where does he now stand on
the ASDA....interesting eh ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 04, 2012, 10:25:58 AM
Miss M,

you say that MIA were asked ..."to NOT field a Candidate"... in the last election, asked by whom??

Will someone from MIA please answer Simone's post?

MIA members seem to have gone very quiet on this one. Come on, don't be shy, you are usually quite keen on information freedom.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 04, 2012, 10:46:23 AM
Alstan & Simonesaffron,
Sorry but I don't understand all these posts about MIA fielding a candidate at the last local election. From what I understood MIA is a single issue campaign group, the issue being No Supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
At the last local elections all candidates standing for election in both Marple wards had stated that they did not support a Supermarket being built on Hibbert Lane. What therefore would MIA have achieved in fielding a candidate?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 04, 2012, 11:09:29 AM
Alstan & Simonesaffron,
Sorry but I don't understand all these posts about MIA fielding a candidate at the last local election. From what I understood MIA is a single issue campaign group, the issue being No Supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
At the last local elections all candidates standing for election in both Marple wards had stated that they did not support a Supermarket being built on Hibbert Lane. What therefore would MIA have achieved in fielding a candidate?

Victor, that's fair enough but we are just asking the answer to a specific previous post thast was made on behalf of MIA about being asked ...NOT to field a candidate". Who were MIA Asked by ? It's not really a difficult question is it ?

Here are some possible suggested answers which may all be wrong.

1/ Councillor/ Councillors ?

2/The College ?

3/ Marple Business Forum ?

4/ The Co-op ?

5/ Asda ?


I'm not suggesting any possible connection in the answer to these parties, it is just a random list that I've made up - so what is the real answer ? 

How do you know that some Councillors having seen the plans have not changed their minds ? Have MIA asked them recently ? Perhaps all local Councillors should now be asked for a statement by MIA...THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE DOING MUCH ELSE DO THEY ? MIA that is not the Councillors.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 04, 2012, 12:46:48 PM
Simonesaffron
Quote
How do you know that some Councillors having seen the plans have not changed their minds ? Have MIA asked them recently ? Perhaps all local Councillors should now be asked for a statement by MIA...THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE DOING MUCH ELSE DO THEY ? MIA that is not the Councillors.

We both know that the 3 local councillors that have not yet stated their views on the proposed development by Walmart can't actually express an opinion before the planning application has been made, so I can't see any benefit being achieved by MIA asking for a statement.

As for "MIA DON'T SEEM TO BE DOING MUCH ELSE", they were certainly in Market Street on Saturday publicising Walmart's display at Buxton Lane this week. In that one day they probably did a better job of promoting the event than the College & Walmart had done in the last 2 months.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 04, 2012, 01:53:27 PM
Irrelevant post removed. Howard
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 05, 2012, 12:06:02 AM
Simonesaffron
Quote
How do you know that some Councillors having seen the plans have not changed their minds ? Have MIA asked them recently ? Perhaps all local Councillors should now be asked for a statement by MIA...THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE DOING MUCH ELSE DO THEY ? MIA that is not the Councillors.

We both know that the 3 local councillors that have not yet stated their views on the proposed development by Walmart can't actually express an opinion before the planning application has been made, so I can't see any benefit being achieved by MIA asking for a statement.

As for "MIA DON'T SEEM TO BE DOING MUCH ELSE", they were certainly in Market Street on Saturday publicising Walmart's display at Buxton Lane this week. In that one day they probably did a better job of promoting the event than the College & Walmart had done in the last 2 months.


Still no answer to that particular question Victor !  Why is that ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 05, 2012, 07:53:51 AM
This application will be referred to Planning so its really of no consequence what local councillors views are and any Marple councillor on Planning is not going to express an opinion.

Just as Stunells views of of no significance as he is not part of the decision making process at all.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 05, 2012, 08:50:35 AM
Victor, Simone is right. A few days ago someone asked why, if MIA claimed to represent the community, they did not seek to justify that claim by fielding candidates in the local election. The response was that they were asked not to field candidates. I am enthusiastic democrat and would like to know who made that plea, apparently succesfully, and, as MIA, or some of their members, are very enthusiastic about freedom of information I though the information would be quickly forthcoming. Not so it seems.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 05, 2012, 08:54:14 AM
Simonesaffron,
Quote
Still no answer to that particular question Victor !  Why is that ?

Either I'm getting a bit senile or I've lost the art of reading English. I am not a Councillor, but I stated a view as to why they can't state an opinion on the proposed development.

As to the statement that MIA wasn't doing anything else I pointed out that I'd seen them on Market Street publicising the supposed "Consultation event @ Buxton Lane"

I didn't think I was answering a question just stating an opinion, but anyway what question do you think I should have been answering and why do you think I should be answering it?

Please next time can you be more specific.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 05, 2012, 09:12:26 AM
Alstan,
I was only giving an opinion on the bit that I highlighted in my original post, I also voiced an opinion on an early post as to why I saw it as not appropriate for MIA to field a candidate at the recent local elections. I would suggest if you want to progress this forward you either talk to someone on the MIA stall or start a new thread I do not speak for MIA (although I am sympathetic to their views).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 05, 2012, 10:40:14 AM
OK, at the risk of nagging I'll try again from the beginning.

Question to Miss M or any other MIA rep...in a recent,previous post when asked why MIA had not fielded a candidate in the recent elections? Miss M responded by saying that ...MIA were asked NOT to field a candidate... My Question is - Who asked MIA "NOT to field a candidate?

Is that a fair and simple question or am I like Victor contemplating senility? 

Please answer.     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on July 05, 2012, 11:22:26 AM
OK, at the risk of nagging I'll try again from the beginning.

Question to Miss M or any other MIA rep...in a recent,previous post when asked why MIA had not fielded a candidate in the recent elections? Miss M responded by saying that ...MIA were asked NOT to field a candidate... My Question is - Who asked MIA "NOT to field a candidate?

Is that a fair and simple question or am I like Victor contemplating senility? 

Please answer.     

If you can be bothered to trawl through this thread (I for one am not digging the links out  ::)) you will see that MIA have been pulled up for being a rather 'shadowy' organisation on several occasions previously. They demand transparency yet are opaque themselves. It is a shame that they don't seem to be able to grasp this yet.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on July 05, 2012, 11:34:24 AM
Actually it was just before Christmas that we were banging on about it, at risk of going around in circles again . . .

http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.1155 (http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.1155)

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 05, 2012, 12:26:26 PM
There you go I have broken my pledge not to answer questions on here as I leave myself wide open to attack.  Word to the wise more information would be given but some on here take great pleasure in shooting the messenger who sadly is me  ;D
Simone I am only answering because it's becoming obvious that you want me to say something that would look like MIA were not credible and possibly working with whoever but no !  It's very simple, MIA is made up of  Business and the community both of who are passionate about stopping a supermarket being built on Hibbert lane.   I wanted to stand a candidate (not me ) it was put to a vote and guess what I was out voted.  So sorry to disappoint with my less than shady account of MIA dealings but that's it in a nut shell.

Regarding Chadwick street.     When I started MIA there was nothing known about Chadwick street, our aim (community MIA)  was to prevent a supermarket on Hibbert lane, so appalled were we that gifted land was being sold to profit Fat cat supermarkets.  It was only later that I found out that there had always been some form of plan for the post office site and to be honest I was shocked myself that being a resident of Marple I  knew nothing of the long standing plans.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 05, 2012, 12:42:18 PM
Sounds like a good decision from MiA re not fielding a candidate. I and I expect others expect more fromour councillor than concern for a single issue I expect concern for the whole town (Stockport) and I expect an underlying political philosophy be it Liberal/Socialist or whatever. Thats where UKIP fail they have no underlying philosophy just a single issue
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on July 05, 2012, 06:02:38 PM
I think reading all these recent posts that what miss Marple is saying is that people supporting MIA asked those in MIA not to stand for election?  So a vote? Not quite how it appeared to us lot, we presumed someone in "authority",  but as she clearly wanted someone to stand I can see how she could describe it as being asked NOT to stand...

If that is not the explanation Miss Marple then I think you do need to answer it more clearly!

Having said that, I have seen the particular tactic of campaign groups convinced by the local political party friendly kissing up to the campaign , that it wouldnt be a good idea to stand, lots of times in the past.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 05, 2012, 08:03:37 PM
Alstan,
I was only giving an opinion on the bit that I highlighted in my original post, I also voiced an opinion on an early post as to why I saw it as not appropriate for MIA to field a candidate at the recent local elections. I would suggest if you want to progress this forward you either talk to someone on the MIA stall or start a new thread I do not speak for MIA (although I am sympathetic to their views).

Victor, sorry, I don't understand this at all. All I am saying is that someone, not you, recently said on this forum that MIA had been asked not to field a candidate in the local elections. I would like to know who. In the absence of a response I can only assume that it was someone who had somerthing to lose if MIA did field a candidate which narrows the field down considerably.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: admin on July 05, 2012, 08:11:39 PM
Victor, sorry, I don't understand this at all. All I am saying is that someone, not you, recently said on this forum that MIA had been asked not to field a candidate in the local elections. I would like to know who. In the absence of a response I can only assume that it was someone who had somerthing to lose if MIA did field a candidate which narrows the field down considerably.

For goodness sake! This has been answered a few posts back:

Simone I am only answering because it's becoming obvious that you want me to say something that would look like MIA were not credible and possibly working with whoever but no !  It's very simple, MIA is made up of  Business and the community both of who are passionate about stopping a supermarket being built on Hibbert lane.   I wanted to stand a candidate (not me ) it was put to a vote and guess what I was out voted.  So sorry to disappoint with my less than shady account of MIA dealings but that's it in a nut shell.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 05, 2012, 08:19:08 PM
For goodness sake! This has been answered a few posts back:

You are quite right, Mark, that was a mistake. Sorry
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplerambler on July 06, 2012, 04:59:39 PM
Who will gain from an ASDA in Marple when a much larger number of people start to shop in Marple? Answer. Everyone except Co-op, Iceland and adjacent residents! The Co-op is Marple’s biggest liability: fine if you are a pensioner and you can shop during the day but infuriating if you try to shop after work when you find that the bread and milk shelves are empty. What do you do after a couple of infuriating visits to the Co-op if you need to shop after work? Answer, you simply never go near to Marple to shop. There is a hell of a lot of money in Marple and in them there hills above and beyond Marple and you see all this trade, every Saturday and Sunday in the great big queues of traffic at Dan Bank traffic lights heading for their weekly food shop at ASDA Stockport and Morrisons Bredbury. 
What is the first thing that many people do when they arrive at ASDA Stockport? Answer, walk right out of the store to the specialist shops to spend money elsewhere on the items ASDA doesn’t stock or for quality items superior to routine ASDA returning later for their shopping trolley. So which shops stand to gain from a massive number changing their routine from shopping in Stockport or Morrisons Bredbury to shopping in Marple? Let’s start with the furthest point out. Marple Book Shop has not been able to compete in the sale of cut-price best sellers for years so it can only gain from an increase in visits from the affluent and literate (ie those not buying bestsellers), the students and the schoolchildren who currently walk to Waterstones from ASDA/TESCO Stockport. Post Office in Marple instead of Merseyway. The stationery shop instead of Rymans on Princes St. The bike shop on Stockport Rd or the walking shop on Market St  instead of Go Outdoors or Alpenstock. The furniture shops, the local branches of the building societies and banks, retail clothing shop, high quality clothing shops on Market St cannot lose and can only gain. Will the gem of Marple ie Hollins hardware profit or lose? Probably both, the Windowlene which is not stocked at the Co-op (can you imagine a cleaning/hardware isle that does not have Windowlene?) might be at ASDA but a lot of items that commuters to Morrisons previously bought from the Homebase next door are, and the cans of paint and wallpaper bought at Homebase as part of the trip to Morrisons will be bought from the decorating shop on High St or Hollins store. 
Getting tired of all of this walking around? So am I so I shall have a drink in one of the coffee shops/cafes/pubs in Marple before I head back to ASDA. Will existing customers change from Littlewoods butchers, the butcher on High St or the two greengrocery shops or the fish van? I think not but additional shoppers in Marple will increase their trade. The comments about more charity shops from objectors never cease but it never ceases to amaze me that they are so popular it is sometimes impossible to get in through the doors. More shopping in Marple means more donations to the charity shops and even more trade. So back to routine weekly shop at ASDA: no comment required, exactly the same as Stockport without the journey. £100+ to provide a tidy profit to ASDA and work for the people who live in Marple who are either unemployed or who currently commute to work at one of the stores in Stockport and find that they can now have a job on their back doorstep. ASDA Marple will generate many more bums on seats on my beloved 394 service, heaven knows that the 394 needs all the help it can get. Who knows, perhaps it should be a condition for planning permission that ASDA pay Stagecoach to extend the 383/384 to the site or even reintroduce a direct service to Hawk Green to bring all these people in Offerton who have had consultation leaflets through their doors to shop and provide jobs in Marple rather than Stockport.  Why should Marple be the only suburb of Stockport without a proper supermarket open from eight till late?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 06, 2012, 08:44:02 PM
Who will gain from an ASDA in Marple when a much larger number of people start to shop in Marple? Answer. Everyone except Co-op, Iceland and adjacent residents! The Co-op is Marple’s biggest liability: fine if you are a pensioner and you can shop during the day but infuriating if you try to shop after work when you find that the bread and milk shelves are empty. What do you do after a couple of infuriating visits to the Co-op if you need to shop after work? Answer, you simply never go near to Marple to shop. There is a hell of a lot of money in Marple and in them there hills above and beyond Marple and you see all this trade, every Saturday and Sunday in the great big queues of traffic at Dan Bank traffic lights heading for their weekly food shop at ASDA Stockport and Morrisons Bredbury. 
What is the first thing that many people do when they arrive at ASDA Stockport? Answer, walk right out of the store to the specialist shops to spend money elsewhere on the items ASDA doesn’t stock or for quality items superior to routine ASDA returning later for their shopping trolley. So which shops stand to gain from a massive number changing their routine from shopping in Stockport or Morrisons Bredbury to shopping in Marple? Let’s start with the furthest point out. Marple Book Shop has not been able to compete in the sale of cut-price best sellers for years so it can only gain from an increase in visits from the affluent and literate (ie those not buying bestsellers), the students and the schoolchildren who currently walk to Waterstones from ASDA/TESCO Stockport. Post Office in Marple instead of Merseyway. The stationery shop instead of Rymans on Princes St. The bike shop on Stockport Rd or the walking shop on Market St  instead of Go Outdoors or Alpenstock. The furniture shops, the local branches of the building societies and banks, retail clothing shop, high quality clothing shops on Market St cannot lose and can only gain. Will the gem of Marple ie Hollins hardware profit or lose? Probably both, the Windowlene which is not stocked at the Co-op (can you imagine a cleaning/hardware isle that does not have Windowlene?) might be at ASDA but a lot of items that commuters to Morrisons previously bought from the Homebase next door are, and the cans of paint and wallpaper bought at Homebase as part of the trip to Morrisons will be bought from the decorating shop on High St or Hollins store. 
Getting tired of all of this walking around? So am I so I shall have a drink in one of the coffee shops/cafes/pubs in Marple before I head back to ASDA. Will existing customers change from Littlewoods butchers, the butcher on High St or the two greengrocery shops or the fish van? I think not but additional shoppers in Marple will increase their trade. The comments about more charity shops from objectors never cease but it never ceases to amaze me that they are so popular it is sometimes impossible to get in through the doors. More shopping in Marple means more donations to the charity shops and even more trade. So back to routine weekly shop at ASDA: no comment required, exactly the same as Stockport without the journey. £100+ to provide a tidy profit to ASDA and work for the people who live in Marple who are either unemployed or who currently commute to work at one of the stores in Stockport and find that they can now have a job on their back doorstep. ASDA Marple will generate many more bums on seats on my beloved 394 service, heaven knows that the 394 needs all the help it can get. Who knows, perhaps it should be a condition for planning permission that ASDA pay Stagecoach to extend the 383/384 to the site or even reintroduce a direct service to Hawk Green to bring all these people in Offerton who have had consultation leaflets through their doors to shop and provide jobs in Marple rather than Stockport.  Why should Marple be the only suburb of Stockport without a proper supermarket open from eight till late?



1. Why was there no big campaign for a supermarket prior to the college announcing it's plans?

2. Why should the adjacent residents have their neighbourhood and quality of life altered to make it more convenient people to get their weekly shopping.

3. What guarantee is there that town centre will not suffer from the ADSA development, there are empty shops at present why would a supermarket 50% bigger than the Co-op not have a negative effect on the Town centre.

4. If as you say all these people will come to ASDA in Marple to do their shopping how will that improve the traffic situation.

The proposed new ASDA is not in the Town centre, the majority of people who come from outside Marple, will just go to ASDA park in the ASDA car park, do their weekly shop and go straight home to put in the fridge/freezer.

As so you say the Co-op is the problem, a store other than the Co-op on that site would probably suit the majority of people who prefer the convenience not have to travel outside of Marple.

Over the years as there been a mass exodus of people from Marple because of this lack of a supermarket on Hibbert Lane or other alternative to the co-op.

As there been row upon row of empty house because nobody wants to move here ?

Sorry but the New Supermarket would be a convenience to certain people and not a necessity for anyone.

A new supermarket would have a negative for the quality of life for people living in both the immediate vicinity and Marple in General, would it not set a precedent for future development in the area ?
I think it would just be the 1st step in Marple becoming just another generic suburb in the Greater Manchester urbanisation.

Is it worth it to make it more convenient to buy a cheaper tin of Beans ?

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 06, 2012, 08:55:13 PM
I'm with you Jethro! Some people couldn't care less and never will. >:( I've heard some people are highly excited about three cases of lager for x amount.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 06, 2012, 09:12:36 PM
I'm with you Jethro! Some people couldn't care less and never will. >:( I've heard some people are highly excited about three cases of lager for x amount.
To be fair I can get pretty excited about offers on 3 cases of beer, but do not see the need for them to be available on Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 06, 2012, 09:21:39 PM
I'm with you Jethro! Some people couldn't care less and never will. >:( I've heard some people are highly excited about three cases of lager for x amount.


To be fair I can get pretty excited about offers on 3 cases of beer, but do not see the need for them to be available on Hibbert Lane.




Point taken Jethro. But for some it is one of the reasons for Asda to be welcomed :-\ The way I feel at the moment I would prefer a two for one on Henessy Brandy ;D
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marplerambler on July 07, 2012, 03:49:48 PM
Has the penny really not dropped with anyone that if you commute by bus from Marple to Stockport town centre every day this is not an argument for a shop spelling beans 5p cheaper than anywhere else: it is a quest to find somewhere that sells the food that you need to live. There are no food stores near to the bus station: until the Rose Hill Spar opened there was not a single place where you could get off the bus to buy fresh bread, milk and fruit in the early evening (I boycotted the garage when it became Co-op because Co-op Marple only ever had 8 pint milk or £1.80 loaves on the shelf at 6.30pm). Working people in Marple are currently second class citizens to the retailers of Marple who say 'we don't want your trade - arrive before five o'clock or come on Saturday or the doors will be locked' or arrive at the Co-op after five o'clock and the shelves will contain no fresh food or the inferior produce that the daytime shoppers wouldn't touch. Sorry Marple traders, we no longer live in the 1950s sending dutiful Stepford housewives on daytime shopping trips between nine and five and need later opening hours. If you cannot stand the heat of the customer demands of the 21st century perhaps you don't deserve to be in the kitchen. A Marple High St (and I mean every shop on the High St) of noon till eight shops is what is needed to fight and beat ASDA at its own game. One shop alone cannot win the battle.  One thing that is certain is that if this were to be the case, there would be a massive support from the anti-ASDA lobby - there would also a lot of people who would like, but have never been able, to shop in Marple because they work the same hours as the shops open.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 07, 2012, 05:33:29 PM
Good post Rambler except I am not as sure the Co-op is as bad as you make it out to be. And why critise the Co-op for having a limited range of bread at 7pm which is when I get back from work at least they are there and open Archers closes at 3pm which is no use to anyone
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 06:23:31 PM
Has the penny really not dropped with anyone that if you commute by bus from Marple to Stockport town centre every day this is not an argument for a shop spelling beans 5p cheaper than anywhere else: it is a quest to find somewhere that sells the food that you need to live. There are no food stores near to the bus station: until the Rose Hill Spar opened there was not a single place where you could get off the bus to buy fresh bread, milk and fruit in the early evening (I boycotted the garage when it became Co-op because Co-op Marple only ever had 8 pint milk or £1.80 loaves on the shelf at 6.30pm). Working people in Marple are currently second class citizens to the retailers of Marple who say 'we don't want your trade - arrive before five o'clock or come on Saturday or the doors will be locked' or arrive at the Co-op after five o'clock and the shelves will contain no fresh food or the inferior produce that the daytime shoppers wouldn't touch. Sorry Marple traders, we no longer live in the 1950s sending dutiful Stepford housewives on daytime shopping trips between nine and five and need later opening hours. If you cannot stand the heat of the customer demands of the 21st century perhaps you don't deserve to be in the kitchen. A Marple High St (and I mean every shop on the High St) of noon till eight shops is what is needed to fight and beat ASDA at its own game. One shop alone cannot win the battle.  One thing that is certain is that if this were to be the case, there would be a massive support from the anti-ASDA lobby - there would also a lot of people who would like, but have never been able, to shop in Marple because they work the same hours as the shops open.
Why not get your loaf in Stockport before you get in the bus back to Marple.
Seriously though your comment it is a "quest to find somewhere that sells the food that you need to live"  is slightly dramatic.
I've lived in Marple for 17 year now and don't remember anybody starving to death because they can't find
enough food to eat.
So basically you would be happy to use a superstore on Hibbert Lane because it would fit in with your daily commute and lifestyle, whatever the effect on people's quality of life within the community which will be affected by the increased traffic,noise etc.
I thought that the majority of the YES campaign was based on the high prices the co-op charge and the need for a cheaper supermarket?
As I have previously stated a new supermarket would be a convenience and is not a necessity that needs building in a residential area.

It is like saying why don't we re-build Bredbury Industrial Estate, stick it on Brabyns Park & the Memorial Park, then we can all get new jobs there. We could all walk to work, less traffic in Marple and plenty of time to get to the New ASDA before they run out of fresh bread at 5 o'clock.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 07, 2012, 06:29:24 PM
Good post Rambler except I am not as sure the Co-op is as bad as you make it out to be. And why critise the Co-op for having a limited range of bread at 7pm which is when I get back from work at least they are there and open Archers closes at 3pm which is no use to anyone
.

Archers close at three because everything's been sold early the bakers start early .morning .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 07, 2012, 06:34:46 PM
So basically you would like a superstore on Hibbert Lane because it would fit in with your daily commute and lifestyle, whatever the effect on people's quality of life within the community which will be affected by the increased traffic,noise etc.

You are making that person seem selfish for wanting those things. It is no more selfish to want a decent cheap supermarket in your area than it is to act in the interests of your business, to think of the effects of a supermarket on your house price etc.

I am pretty sure most of the YES people care about how neighbours will be affected but feel it is outweighed by the advantages of a supermarket for those on a low income etc. However, some people on the NO side don't acknowledge that a supermarket on HL would be good for some people (and then conclude those reasons would be outweighed by the bad). People were mocked on here in the past for wanting a cheaper store and not getting a bus and doing a weeks shopping with the kids in tow! Somebody even said no wonder kids are fat these days it must be because people are too lazy to shop around. I would hedge my bets on that person having a car and never doing a full weeks shopping for 7 people on the bus!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 07, 2012, 06:42:57 PM
Good to see plenty of people doing their shopping in Marple today. 

Here's a pic taken shortly before the march over to the Walmart presentation.
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5175/mial.jpg)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on July 07, 2012, 06:56:39 PM
So basically you would like a superstore on Hibbert Lane because it would fit in with your daily commute and lifestyle, whatever the effect on people's quality of life within the community which will be affected by the increased traffic,noise etc.

You are making that person seem selfish for wanting those things. It is no more selfish to want a decent cheap supermarket in your area than it is to act in the interests of your business, to think of the effects of a supermarket on your house price etc.

I am pretty sure most of the YES people care about how neighbours will be affected but feel it is outweighed by the advantages of a supermarket for those on a low income etc. However, some people on the NO side don't acknowledge that a supermarket on HL would be good for some people (and then conclude those reasons would be outweighed by the bad). People were mocked on here in the past for wanting a cheaper store and not getting a bus and doing a weeks shopping with the kids in tow! Somebody even said no wonder kids are fat these days it must be because people are too lazy to shop around. I would hedge my bets on that person having a car and never doing a full weeks shopping for 7 people on the bus!


Oh how I wish there were seven people in my family, But sadly I could only hope to be able to support two. So now I am supposed to support the downfall of Marple beacause some people have to support what they can't afford? Priorities ?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 07, 2012, 06:58:38 PM
what a fantastic turn out at such short notice.  We will have to ensure Walmart advertise the meetings better next time and to also hire a larger room.     MIA undertook the majority of leafleting for them and there is still no Walmart leaflets  on Stockport Rd , Buxton Lane and other areas surrounding the college sites   Try a little harder next time Walmart please
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 07:00:52 PM
So basically you would like a superstore on Hibbert Lane because it would fit in with your daily commute and lifestyle, whatever the effect on people's quality of life within the community which will be affected by the increased traffic,noise etc.

You are making that person seem selfish for wanting those things. It is no more selfish to want a decent cheap supermarket in your area than it is to act in the interests of your business, to think of the effects of a supermarket on your house price etc.

I am pretty sure most of the YES people care about how neighbours will be affected but feel it is outweighed by the advantages of a supermarket for those on a low income etc. However, some people on the NO side don't acknowledge that a supermarket on HL would be good for some people (and then conclude those reasons would be outweighed by the bad). People were mocked on here in the past for wanting a cheaper store and not getting a bus and doing a weeks shopping with the kids in tow! Somebody even said no wonder kids are fat these days it must be because people are too lazy to shop around. I would hedge my bets on that person having a car and never doing a full weeks shopping for 7 people on the bus!


I have do not a business in the Area and not bothered about my house price.
I just want to able to live in the same quiet area that I live in now, where my kids can walk to school without the threat of even more traffic. Where I can walk to the park with them on a sunday without having negotiate a a supermarket and the associated traffic and noise etc.
I've never mocked anybody on here about the difficulties in shopping with kids etc. I have done it myself.
But if the ASDA was not built would there be a mass exodus of people to live nearer a cheaper
supermarket ?
I agree the Co-op is expensive and the ideal scenario would be for the co-op to be replace with a different
supermarket in that location.
I chose to live in the area because the quality of life it would bring to my kids while they were growing up.
So because now I want to maintain that for my kids and possibly grandchildren am I being selfish!!!!


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 07:03:58 PM
So basically you would like a superstore on Hibbert Lane because it would fit in with your daily commute and lifestyle, whatever the effect on people's quality of life within the community which will be affected by the increased traffic,noise etc.

You are making that person seem selfish for wanting those things. It is no more selfish to want a decent cheap supermarket in your area than it is to act in the interests of your business, to think of the effects of a supermarket on your house price etc.

I am pretty sure most of the YES people care about how neighbours will be affected but feel it is outweighed by the advantages of a supermarket for those on a low income etc. However, some people on the NO side don't acknowledge that a supermarket on HL would be good for some people (and then conclude those reasons would be outweighed by the bad). People were mocked on here in the past for wanting a cheaper store and not getting a bus and doing a weeks shopping with the kids in tow! Somebody even said no wonder kids are fat these days it must be because people are too lazy to shop around. I would hedge my bets on that person having a car and never doing a full weeks shopping for 7 people on the bus!


Oh how I wish there were seven people in my family, But sadly I could only hope to be able to support two. So now I am supposed to support the downfall of Marple beacause some people have to support what they can't afford? Priorities ?
I don't want the supermarket, but comments about people having 7 people in their family are not needed and irrelevant.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 07, 2012, 07:09:36 PM
I chose to live in the area because the quality of life it would bring to my kids while they were growing up.
So because now I want to maintain that for my kids and possibly grandchildren am I being selfish!!!!

No I didn't say that whatsoever. I just said the YES people should not be dismissed as selfish such as suggested in the post I was talking about and quoted. I never called anyone selfish. I just meant that one persons reason is as valid as anothers and that none is more selfish than the other...
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 07, 2012, 07:15:47 PM
Oh how I wish there were seven people in my family, But sadly I could only hope to be able to support two. So now I am supposed to support the downfall of Marple beacause some people have to support what they can't afford? Priorities ?

I was actually the person who it was suggested could take 7 people on the bus. I can afford to support my own thank you very much (and my kids are always my number one priority)! But like many people I won't shop at the Co op for a weeks shop (I do get a few bits from there but prefer Iceland). I actually do the weeks shopping online. But I was told to get a bus rather than go to a cheaper store! The point I made on that old thread was that some people without cars (I am lucky to have one but didn't have one when we started out) could not manage on a bus with as many children, even with 2 or 3 it would be hard to carry a weeks shopping. People were suggesting allsorts yet they have never had to struggle like that. It seemed abit like they were saying 'I'm alright Jack'.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 07, 2012, 07:23:20 PM
Who needs a car for a weekly shop I cycle to Sainburys and bring everything for two of us back on my bike. Easy. And I will most likely continue to do so as the quality of ASDA is so poor.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 07, 2012, 07:24:40 PM
Yes I agree the food at ASDA is poor very poor !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 07:28:26 PM
Oh how I wish there were seven people in my family, But sadly I could only hope to be able to support two. So now I am supposed to support the downfall of Marple beacause some people have to support what they can't afford? Priorities ?

I was actually the person who it was suggested could take 7 people on the bus. I can afford to support my own thank you very much (and my kids are always my number one priority)! But like many people I won't shop at the Co op for a weeks shop (I do get a few bits from there but prefer Iceland). I actually do the weeks shopping online. But I was told to get a bus rather than go to a cheaper store! The point I made on that old thread was that some people without cars (I am lucky to have one but didn't have one when we started out) could not manage on a bus with as many children, even with 2 or 3 it would be hard to carry a weeks shopping. People were suggesting allsorts yet they have never had to struggle like that. It seemed abit like they were saying 'I'm alright Jack'.
JMC, I agree it is a struggle with young kids to do the shopping, but is the struggle not worth it to keep
the area as we have it now?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on July 07, 2012, 07:40:59 PM
JMC, I agree it is a struggle with young kids to do the shopping, but is the struggle not worth it to keep
the area as we have it now?

Fair point. I have always said I am 'on the fence'. But I can see both sides of the argument and sympathise with many of the YES arguments as well as some of NOs. What I would want given the choice is an Aldi (the old Hanburys would have been ideal or the sorting office) but it probably won't happen. I do worry about traffic increasing and impact on residents but I can see that for those on a low income ASDA would be useful.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 07:48:58 PM
JMC, I agree it is a struggle with young kids to do the shopping, but is the struggle not worth it to keep
the area as we have it now?

Fair point. I have always said I am 'on the fence'. But I can see both sides of the argument and sympathise with many of the YES arguments as well as some of NOs. What I would want given the choice is an Aldi (the old Hanburys would have been ideal or the sorting office) but it probably won't happen. I do worry about traffic increasing and impact on residents but I can see that for those on a low income ASDA would be useful.
I agree that a Aldi in the town centre would a good alternative solution rather than ASDA on Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on July 07, 2012, 07:58:18 PM
JMC, I agree it is a struggle with young kids to do the shopping, but is the struggle not worth it to keep
the area as we have it now?

Fair point. I have always said I am 'on the fence'. But I can see both sides of the argument and sympathise with many of the YES arguments as well as some of NOs. What I would want given the choice is an Aldi (the old Hanburys would have been ideal or the sorting office) but it probably won't happen. I do worry about traffic increasing and impact on residents but I can see that for those on a low income ASDA would be useful.
I agree that a Aldi in the town centre would a good alternative solution rather than ASDA on Hibbert Lane.




Stop Asda you stop the college from improving there facilities at Buxton lane .you say you care about your grandchildren .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on July 07, 2012, 09:07:17 PM
I think most of you have lost the plot completely.

Its not about saving a few pence on a tin of beans. The supermarket is just a means to an end.

Its all about providing a suitable establishment, and facilities, to educate our young people, now and in the future. People need to stop thinking short term. A bit of extra traffic, maybe. A few parked cars, so what?

A good education for our young people is whats important.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 07, 2012, 09:11:35 PM
No I think that is just as narrow as those who want cheap beans and petrol. For me it is much more about the identity of the town/suburb than about narrow issues like education and beans.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 09:47:32 PM
I think most of you have lost the plot completely.

Its not about saving a few pence on a tin of beans. The supermarket is just a means to an end.

Its all about providing a suitable establishment, and facilities, to educate our young people, now and in the future. People need to stop thinking short term. A bit of extra traffic, maybe. A few parked cars, so what?

A good education for our young people is whats important.


So a new build on Buxton Lane will guarantee a good education?
 
It has nothing to do with the teaching ability the establishment?

Will the new Rosehill School provide a better education than All Saints or Ludworth?

Should we knock Cambridge and Oxford old colleges and rebuild new fit for purpose universities instead?

It's all about money, the college has been offered the money for Hibbert Lane which negates the need to
apply for grants or loans etc to maintain the present establishments or indeed redevelop Buxton Lane.


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 07, 2012, 09:57:59 PM
On the education front it is more than just having 21st century classrooms that influence which college our children/grandchildren chose. My children (under no influence of mine) chose to go to Aquinas (prior to all the new build). When asked why, their reason was simple, it was because they thought that Aquinas had a better ethos and pastoral care than CAMSFC. They both had to rise 1-2 hrs before their compatriots who were attending CAMSFC, and had less free time, however they both still think they made the right decision. Did CAMSFC try and find out why they didn't stay local NO, it is the support and teaching standards that influence which college people go.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 07, 2012, 10:48:21 PM
Harry is spot on: what matters here is education, not the price of beans. And no-one should kid themselves that the buildings don't matter - they do. Setting aside for a moment the need to attract students in viable numbers, there is the issue of efficiency. New purpose-built premises are much cheaper to run and maintain than inefficient and poorly built old conversions. And the money that is saved on running costs can be redirected towards teaching our kids and grandkids. It's a no brainer.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 07, 2012, 10:53:02 PM
When I went to the meeting last nite I asked the college how many students went from marple and it was not a lot  they said most come from out of area carnt remember figures but a lot. So we are building a supermarket to pay for kids out of area doesn't seem right to me mate
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 07, 2012, 11:02:28 PM
Harry is spot on: what matters here is education, not the price of beans. And no-one should kid themselves that the buildings don't matter - they do. Setting aside for a moment the need to attract students in viable numbers, there is the issue of efficiency. New purpose-built premises are much cheaper to run and maintain than inefficient and poorly built old conversions. And the money that is saved on running costs can be redirected towards teaching our kids and grandkids. It's a no brainer.
Every school,college & university has to maintain or improve buildings, in the same we have maintain our houses. Most colleges do not have a site they can sell off to achieve this. Will the college close without ASDA buying Hibbert Lane?
Or would they find the means by other methods.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 07, 2012, 11:05:05 PM
Johnnyboy,

The college is a facility for the whole town not just one small part of the it and it certainly serves this side of the borough. Of course there are going to be more children from other areas than just Marple and the business shops cafes all benefit from that so dont go all little Marpleish.

Where would you suggest the children of Bredbury/Romiley/Woodly/Offerton go or don't they matter.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Johnnyboy on July 07, 2012, 11:06:42 PM
Last nite chap from collage said they would have to go to plan b if supermarket didn't get planing
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on July 08, 2012, 12:08:41 AM
All this talk about new buildings being the panacea for Cheadle+Marple College. 

It's a wonder Cambridge or Oxford manage to crank out any decent results with all their old buildings.  ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: My login is Henrietta on July 08, 2012, 12:12:44 AM
Last nite chap from collage said they would have to go to plan b if supermarket didn't get planing
Did he say what Plan B is?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 06:38:17 AM
No I think that is just as narrow as those who want cheap beans and petrol. For me it is much more about the identity of the town/suburb than about narrow issues like education and beans.



Wheels,

Education is not a narrow issue, it is about as wide as it gets.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 08, 2012, 08:10:05 AM
Sgk writes 't's a wonder Cambridge or Oxford manage to crank out any decent results with all their old buildings,' but it's a bit rididulous to compare a sixth form college operating out of a converted school with a fabulously wealthy oxbridge college in its historic and grade 1 listed purpose built buildings. Oxbridge colleges are among the richest organisations in the land. They have massive endowments provided by centuries of aristocratic and wealthy alumni. They have cellars full of port. Liveried flunkies wait upon their dons and undergraduates. They don't have to worry about running costs! And when they need new facilities, they don't have to fund it by selling off their existing buildings - they just flog off a few thousand acres of farmland, top it up with a couple of million from a wealthy alumnus, and name the building after him.

As for plan B, I'm not aware that there is one. What is it? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on July 08, 2012, 08:58:24 AM
I was very surprised at the turnout yesterday. I was at the college at 1.30, after the arrival of the march, and there were no more than people there. I thought there would be far more.
Also I don't understand all these complaints about lack of notification. Surely everyone with any interest in this matter would have registered that interest with the college in which case they would have received notification by 29th June.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 09:38:42 AM
No I think that is just as narrow as those who want cheap beans and petrol. For me it is much more about the identity of the town/suburb than about narrow issues like education and beans.



Wheels,

Education is not a narrow issue, it is about as wide as it gets.




Disagree entirely Simone for the purpose of this discussion its a very very narrow issues no more or less so than the price of a tin of beans. The whole debate is much much wider than either of those two issues.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 08, 2012, 09:46:00 AM
Quote
Surely everyone with any interest in this matter would have registered that interest with the college in which case they would have received notification by 29th June.
How did anyone know they had to "register with the college". I had written to them a number of times but as I didn't receive any notification obviously I hadn't registered and 1 weeks notice is not long enough. Their plan was to limit the number of people who could attend.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 10:38:29 AM
What do you mean the date time and place of the consultation was in the public domain for at least 3 weeks. Whilst the college and ASDA have scored many own goals over the year this was not one of them unless of course you feel we should have all had a personal hand delivered letter plus an email and phone call perhaps asking us ever so nicely if we would like to come to a consultation.

There can be very few people in Marple who were not aware of the event and they would mostly have been under 5.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on July 08, 2012, 11:02:16 AM
What do you mean the date time and place of the consultation was in the public domain for at least 3 weeks. Whilst the college and ASDA have scored many own goals over the year this was not one of them unless of course you feel we should have all had a personal hand delivered letter plus an email and phone call perhaps asking us ever so nicely if we would like to come to a consultation.

There can be very few people in Marple who were not aware of the event and they would mostly have been under 5.
How was it in the public domain for 3 weeks ? It was on this website and it appeared in the CAMSFC website
is that classed as being in the public domain. The leaflets were not delivered to every household in the vicinity of the college. The information as been available for 3 weeks if you happen to come across it. That is slightly different then everybody being made aware of it.
Hopefully when the actual planning application goes through it will be different.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 11:28:50 AM


I do understand your take on this wheels but in my opinion there would have been many people who would have been totally against a supermarket on Hibbert Lane if that had been the sole issue. In fact there were many who thought it was. I myself had not really considered the College's plans to develop Buxton Lane because I was unaware of exactly what they were. However the two schemes have now been linked
inexorably together (which is very clever of ASDA/CAMSFC)  and one which I think will pose a conundrum for the Council.   

So it very much becomes about Education with the issue of a supermarket being secondary to having a spanking new college for our kids. So Education the becomes the wider issue for many when last month the issue for many was just ...shall we have an ASDA in town or not?
 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 08, 2012, 11:44:08 AM
Ms Cassidy stated that plan B was housing, she stated that she did not ever think that SMBC would have refused planning permission  :-X.    Sorry for having to continually repeat myself but some posters on this site never want to know the events as to how we have got to this stage.   MIA were contacted by a developer who stated that they had offered nearly 9million for housing and a very small Waitrose, but their bid had never been even considered by CAMSFC.   
MIA had to inform the developer that we could not assist in anyway as that part of things  were nothing to do with MIA as we had only formed to prevent a supermarket on Hibbert Lane.
Now I am giving information which is the truth so I do not expect to have derogatory replies.  It's a shame that because of a few posters on this site more information can not be shared.   But I know i will get negative response from some on this site but hey it's brightens up their day  :-\
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 08, 2012, 12:03:33 PM
Sorry to contradict Miss M but I thought the £9M bid was considered but the college declined it in favour of higher bids from Tesco & ASDA, with the college eventually plumping for the highest bid from Walmart, which we now know was for £13M.
The Waitrose/housing bid would in all probability been accepted by the council. So the college has mortgaged the whole future of Marple for £4M, a sum that the council would probably have loaned to the college at very attractive rates. Instead we have the prospect of a decimated High St., empty petrol forecourts, traffic chaos at the Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane junction & in side roads, blighted property in the vicinity of the new Walmart, all for £4M. Was it worth it CAMSFC!
+ the building on the college could probably have been started by now.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 12:05:08 PM
What do you mean the date time and place of the consultation was in the public domain for at least 3 weeks. Whilst the college and ASDA have scored many own goals over the year this was not one of them unless of course you feel we should have all had a personal hand delivered letter plus an email and phone call perhaps asking us ever so nicely if we would like to come to a consultation.

There can be very few people in Marple who were not aware of the event and they would mostly have been under 5.
How was it in the public domain for 3 weeks ? It was on this website and it appeared in the CAMSFC website
is that classed as being in the public domain. The leaflets were not delivered to every household in the vicinity of the college. The information as been available for 3 weeks if you happen to come across it. That is slightly different then everybody being made aware of it.
Hopefully when the actual planning application goes through it will be different.

I think you would have had to have been willful not to be aware the consultation was taking place. The fact that so many turned up indicates to me that the developers got that part of it right to suggest anything else is clutching at straws.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 12:08:11 PM
Sorry to contradict Miss M but I thought the £9M bid was considered but the college declined it in favour of higher bids from Tesco & ASDA, with the college eventually plumping for the highest bid from Walmart, which we now know was for £13M.
The Waitrose/housing bid would in all probability been accepted by the council. So the college has mortgaged the whole future of Marple for £4M, a sum that the council would probably have loaned to the college at very attractive rates. Instead we have the prospect of a decimated High St., empty petrol forecourts, traffic chaos at the Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane junction & in side roads, blighted property in the vicinity of the new Walmart, all for £4M. Was it worth it CAMSFC!
+ the building on the college could probably have been started by now.

I would have thought as a public corporation the governors have a duty to go with the highest bidder and could be criticised if they didn't
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 08, 2012, 12:24:07 PM
Wheels writes 'I  would have thought as a public corporation the governors have a duty to go with the highest bidder and could be criticised if they didn't'.

That is the case, and it would not just be a case of being 'criticised' - the college is simply not allowed to dispose of any assets for less than the best available price. It's as simple as that.

Miss M confirms what we would have guessed: that 'plan B' is simply to sell the land for less, and scale back their Buxton Lane plans accordingly. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 12:31:29 PM
Sorry to contradict Miss M but I thought the £9M bid was considered but the college declined it in favour of higher bids from Tesco & ASDA, with the college eventually plumping for the highest bid from Walmart, which we now know was for £13M.
The Waitrose/housing bid would in all probability been accepted by the council. So the college has mortgaged the whole future of Marple for £4M, a sum that the council would probably have loaned to the college at very attractive rates. Instead we have the prospect of a decimated High St., empty petrol forecourts, traffic chaos at the Stockport Road/Hibbert Lane junction & in side roads, blighted property in the vicinity of the new Walmart, all for £4M. Was it worth it CAMSFC!
+ the building on the college could probably have been started by now.

I would have thought as a public corporation the governors have a duty to go with the highest bidder and could be criticised if they didn't


I'm not defending CAMSFC in fact I think their interaction with the community in this has been sly and deceitful and I wouldn't believe anything that Ms Cassidy says even now. However £4m is still a very large sum of money to borrow and repay especially when there is an alternative.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 08, 2012, 01:00:45 PM
Really? Im not sure I would describe it as 'sly and deceitful', I suspect more that it was 'reactive and unprepared'.

The 'facts' as far as I am aware, is that someone at the College leaked to locals that the CAMSFC was looking to sell off the Hibbert Lane site to fund future improvements. This was before the site had been 'marketed' to developers. All hell then broke loose, with the College being accused of all sorts and MIA being formed and proceding to berate the College (and Council) for being secretive and refusing to make public their detailed plans. My guess is that at this stage CAMSFC didn't have any plans for Hibbert Lane, other than to sell it for the best price they could.

The bids came in and Asda won (after six months of anti-Tesco ranting!). This then became public knowledge but still no plans, as ASDA had simply won a financial bid process and didn't have any public plans to show.

Planning and design for the site took place (including necessary and quite proper surveys of baseline conditions), this almost certainly involved initial discussions with the Council in order to get a feel for what the Council considered were the key issues and the best way of satisfactorily resolving these matters. The Plans were then finalised in draft and the scheme presented to the public.

Thats about standard for any evolving development scheme and I don't see any real deceitfulness in this.

The reason that people seem to have got the feeling that the College has been secretive is that for the first 9 months or so of this process CAMSFC were being bombarded with demands for information, when in reality they had virtually no information to give out. Once the personal slurs started, unsurprisingly, the hatches were then firmly battended down. I still think its amazing that one of the key opposition attack points seems to be to berate the College governors for not being local. Its all a bit Roystin Vasey at times for my liking.

Overall, to put it another way. If the deals had been done privately (and unknown to the public at large) and the first thing that we found out was the presentation of proposals at public consultation (i.e. within the last couple of weeks), would that have been so bad? Would it have been sly and deceitful? And what overall difference would it have made anyway? It certainly would have assisted the fight against global warming, given the amount of hot air that has been vented over the past 18 months, just for us to arrive at a place we would have been at anyway.  :-[
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 01:26:30 PM

Correct Belly
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 01:37:28 PM
Incorrect Belly and Wheels,

If the College were an ordinary business that provided a take it or leave it service to the community.

 that you could easily get from many other outlets. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 08, 2012, 01:41:58 PM
The difference is that had the college managed to keep it quiet, then the Chadwick St. site would not have been marketed for development and the Walmart Supermarket would have been given planning permission.
Now there is every likelyhood that Walmart will have the planning application turned down and there will be a new Supermarket on Chadwick St. That's why the college wanted to keep the lid on it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 01:42:37 PM
So please explain Simone how all the huffing and puffing over the last year has added one jot to what would have happened in any event.

We are at exactly the same place as if the thoughts of the Governors had never become public, that is a developer presenting outline ideas in advance of a planning application.

Please explain what has so far been achieved????
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 01:46:32 PM
The difference is that had the college managed to keep it quiet, then the Chadwick St. site would not have been marketed for development and the Wilmar Supermarket would have been given planning permission.
Now there is every likelyhood that Wilmar will have the planning application turned down and there will be a new Supermarket on Chadwick St. That's why the college wanted to keep the lid on it.

That's not correct Victor the ASDA proposals do mot meet planning guidelines so would and I expext will be declined in any event.

We will then move to appeal,l that was always going to be the process and people have been mislead if they think otherwise.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 02:13:23 PM
Belly,


What I actually meant to say in my last post which was cut short due to techno inability was this:


If the College was a commercial business.

If the College provided a product that you could easily find elsewhere.

If the College didn't have charge of the hearts and minds of our children and young people.

If the College had made a statement of development at any stage.

If the College hadn't consistently refused to see our local Councillors.

If the College hadn't been the complete opposite of open and transparent.

If the College hadn't allowed itself to be completely cowed by MIA.

If the College hadn't refused to make at least one appearance at the last 13 Area Committees.

If the Community didn't consider the College as part of the community.

If we didn't expect a College to lead by good example.

If the College wasn't actually a College but in reality was actually ASDA.


Then you would have made some good points in your last post.

     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on July 08, 2012, 02:33:22 PM
But the college now is a commercial business thanks to the Tories removing it from LA control and it does have a product that can be easily accessed elsewhere so just on your first two premise alone you fall down Simone


Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
So please explain Simone how all the huffing and puffing over the last year has added one jot to what would have happened in any event.

We are at exactly the same place as if the thoughts of the Governors had never become public, that is a developer presenting outline ideas in advance of a planning application.

Please explain what has so far been achieved????

You're quite right right Wheels  all the "huffing and puffing" has made no difference to what has happened nor will it make any difference to what is actually going to happen. Personally apart from the intertwaddle I haven't been involved in any. I certainly haven't been on any marches nor signed any petitions, and  IMHO most people in Marple have done the same as me. I have always held the view that I will have my opinion informed when I see the planning application but that is not the same as saying that the College (and I think we should remember that it is one) has behaved in a way that a College should behave as it hasn't. It has deveoped a complete siege mentality and totally disengaged itself from the community it puports to serve.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on July 08, 2012, 02:39:28 PM
I probably agree with you there Simone. But who has placed the college under siege if not the so called 'community'?

If there hadn't been quite so much abuse bandied around, we might have got a lot more involvement and a bit more give and take.

There is an argument that we reap what we sow.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 02:49:05 PM
Wheels,

If you wish to define the College it as a commercial business then that's up to you. ASDA is a commercial business that deals in profit to the exclusion of everthing else. A college should deal with the development of Children and young People. The Asda is being built for the shareholders to the exclusion of everything else the College is being refurbished for the students in our community.

As for getting the service elsewhere, How many supermarkets are there in Stockport, how many 6th form Colleges are there ? Do you compare the unique ambitions, aspirations and education of our children to a cheap shirt...one is nothing special and you can get it absolutely anywhere...the other is and you can't.     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on July 08, 2012, 03:00:50 PM
I probably agree with you there Simone. But who has placed the college under siege if not the so called 'community'?

If there hadn't been quite so much abuse bandied around, we might have got a lot more involvement and a bit more give and take.

There is an argument that we reap what we sow.


Wheels,

It isn't the general community that has been abusive it is the "leaders of MarpleInaction that have hurled the abuse. These people are not the communiity, they represent a section of the community - probably the the vocal minority. They are fond of saying they are the community but they are not. However, the College should have stood up to them but they didn't , they cowed and hid away and let the community down by their craven behaviour.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on July 08, 2012, 04:34:42 PM
Quote
If you wish to define the College it as a commercial business then that's up to you. ASDA is a commercial business that deals in profit to the exclusion of everthing else. A college should deal with the development of Children and young People. The Asda is being built for the shareholders to the exclusion of everything else the College is being refurbished for the students in our community.
Just like to point out that since 1999 Asda has been wholly owned by Wal-Mart – the largest company and arguably 'the most ruthless employer' in the world. If you are unsure what kind of organisation Wal-Mart is then look at the following link, there are lots of others as well detailing Wal-Marts activities www.corporatewatch.org (http://www.corporatewatch.org)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Heritage on July 08, 2012, 07:21:32 PM
To pick up on Victor M's point.....WalMart are fairly unlikely to have a live feed from the Marple Forum in their planning ops room....in fact nobody in WalMart HQ will have the foggiest where Stockport is, never mind Marple, and they could lose the money involved in this project down the back of their corporate sofa. So it would be better for everyone's lives just to sit back and relax....perhaps have a glass of wine from the selection at Toast....or call in for a coffee at Portobello....or a cake at All Things Nice.

On your way home, pick up some meat from White's or Littlewood's. Grab some fruit and veg from Neal's. Perhaps a paper from the newsagent, and some choccies for later tonight from the Thornton's selection on the corner. Oh - better get some paracetamol from Boots in case you have a hangover from the real ales you remember you got from Bargain Booze last week - their offers are great - and some straw for the rabbit from the pet shop....the kids have never done it like they promised!

And before you know it, instead of posting another fairly introspective blog here aimed at...well....the 0.0025% of the local population who replied to the last posting you put up on a very similar point six months ago, you've actually gone out and supported the town. Where did the time go?

Come on everyone....less round robin postings about walking to the college or gathering some signatures which will go into the shredder at the council offices....wait for the planning exercise to begin and meanwhile get out of the bloody house and actually support the town you live in!!

THAT is the way you will stop a supermarket....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: acoustician on July 08, 2012, 09:02:28 PM
thats virtually my shopping neatly summarised ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 08, 2012, 10:17:47 PM
More common sense written today by belly, heritage and wheels than by all the rest of us for the past twelve months!

I also agree with Simone sometimes, but I'm not convinced by ' the College should have stood up to them (MIA) but they didn't , they cowed and hid away and let the community down by their craven behaviour.' I have a feeling that we will see in due course that the college was right not to respond. There's a lot to be said for remaining silent when you are under attack - sometimes a response can confer a credibility on the attackers which they do not deserve.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 08, 2012, 10:19:32 PM
More common sense written today by belly, heritage and wheels than by all the rest of us for the past twelve months!

I also agree with Simone sometimes, but I'm not convinced by ' the College should have stood up to them (MIA) but they didn't , they cowed and hid away and let the community down by their craven behaviour.' I have a feeling that we will see in due course that the college was right not to respond. There's a lot to be said for remaining silent when you are under attack - sometimes a response can confer a credibility on the attackers which they do not deserve.    
MIA always had a line of communication with the college.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 14, 2012, 05:14:54 PM
Now, maybe, but certainly not 'always', otherwise there would have been no posts like this. 
Hi Duke
We have tried and tried to speak with Ms Cassidy but she is refusing to answer emails, letters, invitations to speak with the community and messages continually ignores messages given  via her PA joy Pippin  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 14, 2012, 05:47:14 PM
Now, maybe, but certainly not 'always', otherwise there would have been no posts like this.  
Hi Duke
We have tried and tried to speak with Ms Cassidy but she is refusing to answer emails, letters, invitations to speak with the community and messages continually ignores messages given  via her PA joy Pippin  

Oh Dave how come you always try to mis interpret things.   MIA always has had communication with the college, I personally still do and I am sure other MIA members do also.   What the quote you quoted says is, and still exists, for whatever reason, is Ms Cassady continually refused MIA requests to speak with the community.  Maybe I don't have your gift of the written word so please try to be mindful when attempting to discredit forum members it's just so...... Not nice .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on July 14, 2012, 06:07:26 PM
Ms Cassady continually refused MIA requests to speak with the community.
MIA is the community
MIA always has had communication with the college

 OK Miss M, I'm sure I'll work it out eventually.......   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss Marple on July 14, 2012, 06:10:45 PM
Ms Cassady continually refused MIA requests to speak with the community.
MIA is the community
MIA always has had communication with the college

 OK Miss M, I'm sure I'll work it out eventually.......   ;)
yes do try !
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bowden Guy on July 14, 2012, 09:05:03 PM
MIA do not speak for "the community". I am a member of the Marple "community" and they do not speak for me,
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on August 05, 2012, 03:30:26 PM
I see from the 'Latest News' thread that Cllr Candler believes that 'There is a widespread consensus in the area that says that we don’t need a large supermarket outside the district centre.' Where does he get that information from? Has he conducted a proper opinion survey? Or does he think that a noisy campaign is the same as a 'widespread consensus? Surely such an experienced local councillor would not make such a simple mistake. Would they....?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 05, 2012, 06:27:37 PM
I see from the 'Latest News' thread that Cllr Candler believes that 'There is a widespread consensus in the area that says that we don’t need a large supermarket outside the district centre.' Where does he get that information from? Has he conducted a proper opinion survey? Or does he think that a noisy campaign is the same as a 'widespread consensus? Surely such an experienced local councillor would not make such a simple mistake. Would they....?

Mr candler likes to be on anybody's side that he thinks will win .but not this time .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 05, 2012, 10:36:01 PM
I see Admin has posted just about the most sensible response there has been to this from Cllr Derbyshire Leader of the Council. She makes the sound point that Councillors coming out for or against before a planning application is even lodged might be grounds for calling for a judical review.

Oh that the Marple Councillors had such sense rather than jumping in bed with what they consider to be side which will get them elected.

Equally MiAdemanding that Councillors commit themselves in advance of a planning application is good news for ASDA
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 06, 2012, 02:41:20 PM
I see Admin has posted just about the most sensible response there has been to this from Cllr Derbyshire Leader of the Council. She makes the sound point that Councillors coming out for or against before a planning application is even lodged might be grounds for calling for a judical review.

Oh that the Marple Councillors had such sense rather than jumping in bed with what they consider to be side which will get them elected.

Equally MiAdemanding that Councillors commit themselves in advance of a planning application is good news for ASDA


Hello Wheels,

We must be fair here all Councillors did not jump into bed. Councillors Bispham, Dowling and Ingham have never uttered a sentence on the subject, I expect quite deliberately.

you are of course quite right all politicians will say whatever they feel people want to hear in order for them to be elected/re-elected. The point is do they mean it ? Councillor Alexander has spoken out against the development because of "traffic issues" and there is no doubt that there are traffic issues so I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say her concerns are genuine. Cllr Candler has some cock-eyed reason to do with Marple College being gifted the land by John Major in 1992 for educational purposes. What has 1992 and John Major got to do with a supermarket in Marple in 2012 ? It's common knowledge that Candler was hectored by MIA and that he caved in so I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. Cllr Wright just seems to agree with everything that MIA say.

As for the other three, I heard a story that Cllr Bispham was saying in the Royal Scot that if Asda fund a new swimming pool then he's for them. However I wasn't actually there myself so it could just be another story, let's face it there are enough of them about.  Just to add more speculation this is what I now think will actually happen

1/ Imminently Asda and CAMSFC will submit a joint enabling planning application. They will say that they will refurbish the College first and that once that is complete they will build their store.

2/ SMBC will recommend to reject their application on the basis that an out of district store is against their planning policy.

3/ Recommendation will come before AC whereupon swimming pool excepted all local Councillors will speak agaainst it for their own variety of reasons.

4/ Application will go to Planning Committee. IMHO, this one is not straightforward because of local political implications. If they pass it, game, set and match to ASDA the easy way. If they don't...

5/ ASDA appeal to Planning Inspectors. SMBC will say that it is against their planning policy, ASDA will say that it is only 400metres from the edge of town, that they are ensuring the College's survival, that they will provide 200 jobs and that they are meeting the supermarket needs of a town of 23,000 + residents.

6/ ASDA will hire the best legal team money can buy whereas SMBC will hire the cheapest.

Who is your money on?

There is just one possibility that could stop it...maybe - Chadwick Street.               
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 06, 2012, 03:23:11 PM
I think you slightly miss the point I was  making which was that to come out against an application before it has been submitted is evidence for the applicant that they did not have a fair hearing and will weigh heavily in any appeal.

Therefore for MiA to demand an oath of loyalty from councillor is counter productive.

I think Cllr Derbyshire makes the point extremely well.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 06, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
I agree that councillors on the planning committees cannot comment either way about any planning application.  However, unless its changed recently, Stockport is unusual in the fact that ALL councillors sit on the local area planning committee.  This in effect means that no councillor can EVER support any voter in anything relating to planning applications in their area at all.  This means anything.. waste dump, housing, shopping app, my extension.  It also means they in effect they cannot really advise or help local campaigns.  I have always found this very frustrating and the councillors I feel can in some situations use this to their "advantage". As this is well known by all councillors, and as some of the councillors that have used this particular argument with me in the past have actually spoken out before they should about this potential app, I have always been suspicious of their reasons for doing so(speaking out).   

In most other areas there are some councillors that do not sit on the committees all the time, therefore they can stand with their residents and offer not only their personal support but their help and expertise.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 06, 2012, 05:17:40 PM
I agree that councillors on the planning committees cannot comment either way about any planning application.  However, unless its changed recently, Stockport is unusual in the fact that ALL councillors sit on the local area planning committee.  This in effect means that no councillor can EVER support any voter in anything relating to planning applications in their area at all.  This means anything.. waste dump, housing, shopping app, my extension.  It also means they in effect they cannot really advise or help local campaigns.  I have always found this very frustrating and the councillors I feel can in some situations use this to their "advantage". As this is well known by all councillors, and as some of the councillors that have used this particular argument with me in the past have actually spoken out before they should about this potential app, I have always been suspicious of their reasons for doing so(speaking out).   

In most other areas there are some councillors that do not sit on the committees all the time, therefore they can stand with their residents and offer not only their personal support but their help and expertise.

Lisa,

This doesn't make any sense at all.

Marple Councillors sit on Area Committee every month and regularly support/refuse recommendations for Marple voters who have put in planning applications for all kinds of work.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 06, 2012, 05:40:32 PM
I think you slightly miss the point I was  making which was that to come out against an application before it has been submitted is evidence for the applicant that they did not have a fair hearing and will weigh heavily in any appeal.

Therefore for MiA to demand an oath of loyalty from councillor is counter productive.

I think Cllr Derbyshire makes the point extremely well.

Wheels, I don't think that I have missed the point, it has been made many times before on this thread, it is called "pre-determination". It is about prejudicing your view before the facts are known. The question is why have three of our Councillors done it. Why did Councillors Candler, Alexander and Wright do it ? Whilst Councillors; Dowling, Bispham and Ingham appear not to have.

As for MIA being "counter-productive"  well no change there then. In fairness we couldn't really expect MIA to know about pre-determination at the time, they are after all hapless amateurs that have made wrong move after wrong move. In fact it has been said several times on this site that with enemies like MIA, ASDA has got all the friends it needs. Councillors though are weaned on this stuff, they are told about pre-determination the day they take office. Martin Candler will have known he was doing this when he made his statement, yet he still made it, so will Cllrs Alexander and Wright yet they still made theirs. One can only ponder as to their reasons for doing it.

Perhaps MIA should ask them?           
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 06, 2012, 11:32:55 PM
I agree that councillors on the planning committees cannot comment either way about any planning application.  However, unless its changed recently, Stockport is unusual in the fact that ALL councillors sit on the local area planning committee.  This in effect means that no councillor can EVER support any voter in anything relating to planning applications in their area at all.  This means anything.. waste dump, housing, shopping app, my extension.  It also means they in effect they cannot really advise or help local campaigns.  I have always found this very frustrating and the councillors I feel can in some situations use this to their "advantage". As this is well known by all councillors, and as some of the councillors that have used this particular argument with me in the past have actually spoken out before they should about this potential app, I have always been suspicious of their reasons for doing so(speaking out).   

In most other areas there are some councillors that do not sit on the committees all the time, therefore they can stand with their residents and offer not only their personal support but their help and expertise.

I am not sure I agree Lisa I think that there is a world of difference in an elected member coming out against an application and basically excluding themselves from the decision making process and helping and assisting a community group and the situation we have here where members have aired a view even though there is no application on which to comment.

Thus those who have come out against ASAD are saying there is no application which they would ever be willing to support. This leaves the door open for any applicant to say they never got a fair hearing as elected members approached the situation with a closed mind. To say no matter what application goes in I am against it is very different to saying I have consider x application and I am against it. Thus in forcing and bullying members into declaring their view in advance of an planning application MiA are handing a golden opportunity to ASDA
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 07, 2012, 09:26:31 AM
I agree wheels that it is not right for MIA to push councillors to declare which sde they are on.. however I also try and remember that they are just a bunch of ordinary people who might not know that councillors cant state which side they are on in Stockport.

What I do question is why some councillors have as  they cant really now be part of the decision making process without the potential of ASDA turning round and saying they were biased from the start.  Councillors have ALWAYS known this so why have they spoken out?

They know the fine line they balance on..

As to supporting and advising on planning apps.  Can you show me where they have done this?  They can maybe tell you about the process but in my experience they turn up to meetings, blow some hot air then claim they just cant get involved because of the legal position. Whether they are allowed to support more fully is maybe a different matter, Ive certainly been told the past that their hands are tied.



Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 07, 2012, 02:58:43 PM
Hello Lisa,

That is exactly what everybody is saying, why did they make such a declaration thus pre-determining their view ?

 I'm not sure what you mean about Councillors giving ..."advice on planning apps"... Councillors know little more about planning than you or I actually do, that isn't their job, that's the job of the professional Planning Officer. Councillors wouldn't give you advice on planning apps, (apart from about the process) they are just not qualified to do so.

If you take our current Councillors: Alexander was/is is a Civil Servant, Bispham also, Candler a local Gov Officer, Dowling a journalist, Ingham a Marketing Person and Wright a shopkeeper, what do any of them know about Planning?     

Councillors can comment on a planning application, in some cases they even have the power to grant or reject even if it is against the professional advice of their own planning officers. The issue with the ASDA is that no planning app has yet been received.

If you look on the Area Committee website you will see example after example going back year after year whereupon Councillors have sat in judgement on all shapes and sizes of planning applications. If you go to the AC you will see Councillors pass comment on all applications that come before them. They will only say that they can't comment if they have to declare a pecuniary interest which represents a conflict.

Lisa, polite question:

How many Area Committee Meetings have you been to in the last 5 years ? 

 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on August 08, 2012, 10:06:02 AM
Some of the discussion on this thread regarding predetermination seems to be based on the rules applied by the courts before the introduction of the Localism Act 2011. Section 25 of the Act, which came in to force earlier this year under the terms of a commencement order, introduced changes to the common law but with what result seems to be debatable. Councillors clearly have greater freedom to express views than before but there are certainly barristers who still see scope for future litigation on the issue.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 08, 2012, 10:48:46 AM
Indeed I think Cllr Derbyshire has already explained that in her reply
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: andy+kirsty on August 08, 2012, 11:28:46 AM
Have just listened to this radio 4 programme at work, there are a number of parralls to be drawn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lhj0s

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 08, 2012, 11:40:44 AM
Some of the discussion on this thread regarding predetermination seems to be based on the rules applied by the courts before the introduction of the Localism Act 2011. Section 25 of the Act, which came in to force earlier this year under the terms of a commencement order, introduced changes to the common law but with what result seems to be debatable. Councillors clearly have greater freedom to express views than before but there are certainly barristers who still see scope for future litigation on the issue.

Quite right Alstan,

There is most definately a pre-determnination case post localism to be answered somewhere. Perhaps Marple will provide the test case
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Smithy166 on August 13, 2012, 09:42:05 PM
This doesn't really "follow on" with the current topic of discussion, but I'll ask it anyway...
Lets say the college does complete the deal with asda, and moves ahead with its plans to renovate the buxton lane campus. Would ASDA still allow the college to use the hibbert lane site whilst the improvement works are taking place on the buxton lane site? or would the college use porta-cabins as classrooms?
I know no-one here can give a "accurate" answer, but I figured it would be worth a shot, seeing as though I can't ask a member of college staff until I start my second year ;)

Thanks,
Dan :)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on August 13, 2012, 10:06:54 PM
Lets say the college does complete the deal with asda, and moves ahead with its plans to renovate the buxton lane campus. Would ASDA still allow the college to use the hibbert lane site whilst the improvement works are taking place on the buxton lane site? or would the college use porta-cabins as classrooms?

I asked this question of one of the College's representative at the consultation weekend. The college's building works on Buxton Lane would be completed before Asda started work on the Hibbert Lane site. Teaching of students would not be disrupted.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on August 22, 2012, 01:30:40 PM
I really must congratulate MIA on their inconsistency. It is second to none.

In their latest newsletter (http://www.marple-in-action.org.uk/MiA-newsletter7.pdf), which is only 2 sides of A4, they manage to refer to the college as:

Cheadle & Marple 6th Form College
CAMSFC
Cheadle and Marple VI Form College
CAMSCF
Marple & Cheadle 6th Form College

The correct name is Cheadle and Marple Sixth Form College, which wasn't used at all, or an abbreviation of CAMSFC (used once, well done). Very sloppy.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Unionman on August 26, 2012, 11:39:19 AM
As a former employee of CAMSFC may I make a few observations?

The Corporation does indeed have a duty to maximise revenue from the disposal of college assets, but not to the extent that they need to subscribe to the abuse of financial power by ASDA so as to, in effect, over-rule local planning policies by expensive appeals. CAMSFC could simply have had a competitive bidding process for the land in question, subject to planning permission within the current planning policy, that is, for residential use. This would have discharged the legal obligations of the Corporation.

The Marple campus does have a real feel of serving local students, from Marple, Offerton, Bredbury, New Mills, Hayfield, Glossop, Chapel and other villages and towns nearby. It is local without being parochial and it is a shame that the current Senior Managers of CAMSFC do not seem to have a feel for this, nor for the responsibilities that it entails, especially to residents of Marple. Nevertheless they and the Corporation should get credit for a committment to maintaining a campus in Marple.

However my real concerns are not about the Hibbert Lane site, but about Buxton lane:

•   It is a very very wet site.
•   There is at least one filled in watercourse that runs across the site.
•   Flooding of part of the car park is a regular occurrance.
•   When, following the Disability Discrimination Act, a lift was constructed at the end of the tower block, it was subject to delays in construction, due to flooding of the excavated shaft.
•   The Tower Block, which, in the artist’s depiction of the new construction, has a central place, has a limited life expectancy. It is quite an old building for a tall block in continual educational use, and was the subject of remedial work a few years ago. A request to see the professional advice that CAMSFC has received, over the past decade, about the structural integrity and life expectancy of the block, would be a fruitful line of enquiry, I would think.

Has there been any proper expenditure by CAMSFC on a substantial, in-depth, civil engineer’s investigation of the suitability of the Buxton Lane site for the heavy duty construction, and use, that is anticipated by the college?

There is little point in obtaining funds from a redevelopment of Hibbert Lane if the new college buildings that are planned cannot be built to time and cost, or in a way that allows sustainable use into the future.

Even if it can be constructed, it will require expert project management, and I doubt that the college has the expertise to do in house. There is a distinct possibility that, if the development is allowed, that there will be delays and costly over-runs. A general question relating to whether the SMT of the college have done a financial risk assessment of project delays would be helpful.

It is easy to forget that even though it has two campuses the college is a single corporate entity. The Cheadle Estate, although not without issues, is in relatively good shape. The quality of the Marple Estate is poor and deteriorating. The Corporation relies heavily on the Principal,  Deputy and the Director of Finance and Resources, yet I fear that none has a good appreciation of the history of the estates, certainly none was in post when the old Margaret Danyers College had a tower block of its own, at the end of North Downs Road, Cheadle Hulme, which served as a point of entry to the campus, indeed the gateway is still in place.

This block was condemned about 1997/8, and subsequently razed. The new build followed. The new Cheadle Campus was eventually fenced in for security reasons and the old Downs Road site was effectively abandoned and allowed to return to green land, (although I think the hard base of the site remains to this day, below a thin covering of vegetation). Indeed I believe that its dis-use may have been a condition of the new build at Cheadle.

If so it needs to be reconsidered. The footprint of the old Downs Road site is quite large, embracing an old car park, roundabout, service road, the space occupied by the block, plus sports hall and refectory. There was also a miniature railway behind. The value of this as a residential development site could be substantial: It isn’t geniune green land, and a residential development would have little or no adverse impact on the area. Furthermore, as it is now completely seperate from the main campus at Cheadle, development could take place without any impact on teaching and learning.

The combined value of the Downs Road site and Hibbert Lane as  residential development sites could be quite close to the £13M offered by ASDA, perhaps even in excess.

No-one likes the prospect of development on their doorstep, but developing the Downs Road site is clearly the lesser of two evils, compared to ASDA driving a coach and horses through SMBC development policy, and drastically altering the make up Marple village. The college and SMBC should be requested, as a matter of urgency, to re-evaluate the development status of the Downs Road site. For those with a sense of history the prospect of an unused asset at Cheadle, dating back to the days of Magaret Danyers College, being used to help ensure the future survival of a modern Marple Campus is a nice touch!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 26, 2012, 12:38:47 PM
Interesting letter Unionman but is seems to me that you are a little bit like MIA...whistling in the dark.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 26, 2012, 12:53:04 PM
It read well until he refered to Marple as a village.I would have thought Unionman would have known of Marples industrial past and would have known it was never a village.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on August 26, 2012, 01:18:26 PM
Unionman, very good posting, I just wish some people would actually join the debate on the excellent issues you raised and not nit pick odd words used. Welcome to the debate.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 26, 2012, 01:31:43 PM
As a former employee of CAMSFC may I make a few observations?

The Corporation does indeed have a duty to maximise revenue from the disposal of college assets, but not to the extent that they need to subscribe to the abuse of financial power by ASDA so as to, in effect, over-rule local planning policies by expensive appeals. CAMSFC could simply have had a competitive bidding process for the land in question, subject to planning permission within the current planning policy, that is, for residential use. This would have discharged the legal obligations of the Corporation.

The Marple campus does have a real feel of serving local students, from Marple, Offerton, Bredbury, New Mills, Hayfield, Glossop, Chapel and other villages and towns nearby. It is local without being parochial and it is a shame that the current Senior Managers of CAMSFC do not seem to have a feel for this, nor for the responsibilities that it entails, especially to residents of Marple. Nevertheless they and the Corporation should get credit for a committment to maintaining a campus in Marple.

However my real concerns are not about the Hibbert Lane site, but about Buxton lane:

•   It is a very very wet site.
•   There is at least one filled in watercourse that runs across the site.
•   Flooding of part of the car park is a regular occurrance.
•   When, following the Disability Discrimination Act, a lift was constructed at the end of the tower block, it was subject to delays in construction, due to flooding of the excavated shaft.
•   The Tower Block, which, in the artist’s depiction of the new construction, has a central place, has a limited life expectancy. It is quite an old building for a tall block in continual educational use, and was the subject of remedial work a few years ago. A request to see the professional advice that CAMSFC has received, over the past decade, about the structural integrity and life expectancy of the block, would be a fruitful line of enquiry, I would think.

Has there been any proper expenditure by CAMSFC on a substantial, in-depth, civil engineer’s investigation of the suitability of the Buxton Lane site for the heavy duty construction, and use, that is anticipated by the college?

There is little point in obtaining funds from a redevelopment of Hibbert Lane if the new college buildings that are planned cannot be built to time and cost, or in a way that allows sustainable use into the future.

Even if it can be constructed, it will require expert project management, and I doubt that the college has the expertise to do in house. There is a distinct possibility that, if the development is allowed, that there will be delays and costly over-runs. A general question relating to whether the SMT of the college have done a financial risk assessment of project delays would be helpful.

It is easy to forget that even though it has two campuses the college is a single corporate entity. The Cheadle Estate, although not without issues, is in relatively good shape. The quality of the Marple Estate is poor and deteriorating. The Corporation relies heavily on the Principal,  Deputy and the Director of Finance and Resources, yet I fear that none has a good appreciation of the history of the estates, certainly none was in post when the old Margaret Danyers College had a tower block of its own, at the end of North Downs Road, Cheadle Hulme, which served as a point of entry to the campus, indeed the gateway is still in place.

This block was condemned about 1997/8, and subsequently razed. The new build followed. The new Cheadle Campus was eventually fenced in for security reasons and the old Downs Road site was effectively abandoned and allowed to return to green land, (although I think the hard base of the site remains to this day, below a thin covering of vegetation). Indeed I believe that its dis-use may have been a condition of the new build at Cheadle.

If so it needs to be reconsidered. The footprint of the old Downs Road site is quite large, embracing an old car park, roundabout, service road, the space occupied by the block, plus sports hall and refectory. There was also a miniature railway behind. The value of this as a residential development site could be substantial: It isn’t geniune green land, and a residential development would have little or no adverse impact on the area. Furthermore, as it is now completely seperate from the main campus at Cheadle, development could take place without any impact on teaching and learning.

The combined value of the Downs Road site and Hibbert Lane as  residential development sites could be quite close to the £13M offered by ASDA, perhaps even in excess.

No-one likes the prospect of development on their doorstep, but developing the Downs Road site is clearly the lesser of two evils, compared to ASDA driving a coach and horses through SMBC development policy, and drastically altering the make up Marple village. The college and SMBC should be requested, as a matter of urgency, to re-evaluate the development status of the Downs Road site. For those with a sense of history the prospect of an unused asset at Cheadle, dating back to the days of Magaret Danyers College, being used to help ensure the future survival of a modern Marple Campus is a nice touch!


Are you a member of Mia  'group .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 26, 2012, 02:26:36 PM
Unionman, very good posting, I just wish some people would actually join the debate on the excellent issues you raised and not nit pick odd words used. Welcome to the debate.

Odd word make up the whole and are important. Don't devalue their importance.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Steptoe and Son on August 27, 2012, 11:12:18 AM
Unionman, very good posting, I just wish some people would actually join the debate on the excellent issues you raised and not nit pick odd words used. Welcome to the debate.

Odd word make up the whole and are important. Don't devalue their importance.

lol
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on August 27, 2012, 02:20:52 PM
Thank you, Unionman, for a very interesting post.

This is a joint application for both the Hibbert Road and Buxton Lane developments and ASDA would obviously have a considerable interest in the prompt and efficient completion of the Buxton Lane site since they would be unable to start their own development until Buxton Lane is completed, something which I think I have seen confirmed elsewhere on this forum. You are probably right about a lack of necessary experience within CAMSFC, although plenty of professional experience is always available at a price, and in view of this, I would have thought it quite likely that ASDA might well manage the Buxton Lane development themselves, using their own project management resources both internal and external. They must have huge development experience available to them.

I don't agree that the proposed development would "drastically" alter what is, in reality, a suburban dormitory town. The size of the development seems large enough to meet the needs of Marple people but not so large that it would attract many others from outside the area, given that there are larger Asda at Stockport (4m) and Hyde (4m), plus large Tesco at Stockport (4m) and Hattersley (7m), Morrisons at Bredbury (4m) and Sainsbury at Hazel Grove (4m), not to mention Aldi at Romiley (3m) and Waitrose at Poynton (7m). What it may well do, however, is persuade what I suspect is the the great majority of Marple people who travel out of the town every week to shop locally, perhaps buying their hardware, DIY materials, toys, outdoor gear, and many other products in Marple instead of making what are, at the moment, very short detours from their favoured supermarket to B&Q, Argos, Toys R Us, Homebase, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 27, 2012, 02:59:31 PM
I am not sure that people would stay to shop locally for other items unless the local traders inprove their offering in terms of price and customer service. I would still cycle to homebase for some screws as they don't make me feel as if I am a nuisance for entering their store.

The list is endless.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 27, 2012, 05:14:54 PM
I am not sure that people would stay to shop locally for other items unless the local traders inprove their offering in terms of price and customer service. I would still cycle to homebase for some screws as they don't make me feel as if I am a nuisance for entering their store.

The list is endless.

I know what you mean .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 28, 2012, 12:08:17 AM
I am not sure that people would stay to shop locally for other items unless the local traders inprove their offering in terms of price and customer service. I would still cycle to homebase for some screws as they don't make me feel as if I am a nuisance for entering their store.

The list is endless.

That has to be the worst example ever. We have a hardware shop here that offers better everything than homebase / B&Q etc
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 28, 2012, 08:36:11 AM
I am not sure that people would stay to shop locally for other items unless the local traders inprove their offering in terms of price and customer service. I would still cycle to homebase for some screws as they don't make me feel as if I am a nuisance for entering their store.

The list is endless.

That has to be the worst example ever. We have a hardware shop here that offers better everything than homebase / B&Q etc

Well their not serving the market Duke as I would sooner cycle to Homebase.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 28, 2012, 10:27:39 AM
Wheels, Duke,

If you are both referring to the same hardware shop as I am and I think you are then I've stopped going in it. They make me feel as if they don't want my business so I don't give it them. If you you ask a question say for example ..."where are you're 2 inch nails"? They growl at you and "point you in a direction". Unfortunately they are not the only business in Marple who don't seem to want my business, so I don't give it to them either. I'd sooner travel for a pleasant experience than stay at home for an unpleasant one. 

Some (not all of them) of the businesses in Marple don't understand simple things such as; convenient opening times  and please thank you and smile.       
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 28, 2012, 04:47:07 PM
Wheels, Duke,

If you are both referring to the same hardware shop as I am and I think you are then I've stopped going in it. They make me feel as if they don't want my business so I don't give it them. If you you ask a question say for example ..."where are you're 2 inch nails"? They growl at you and "point you in a direction". Unfortunately they are not the only business in Marple who don't seem to want my business, so I don't give it to them either. I'd sooner travel for a pleasant experience than stay at home for an unpleasant one. 

Some (not all of them) of the businesses in Marple don't understand simple things such as; convenient opening times  and please thank you and smile.       


You've hit the nail right on the head there Simon.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 28, 2012, 05:05:50 PM
Wheels, Duke,

If you are both referring to the same hardware shop as I am and I think you are then I've stopped going in it. They make me feel as if they don't want my business so I don't give it them. If you you ask a question say for example ..."where are you're 2 inch nails"? They growl at you and "point you in a direction". Unfortunately they are not the only business in Marple who don't seem to want my business, so I don't give it to them either. I'd sooner travel for a pleasant experience than stay at home for an unpleasant one. 

Some (not all of them) of the businesses in Marple don't understand simple things such as; convenient opening times  and please thank you and smile.       

Bang on Simone I feel and am made to feel exactly the same. There are a whole range of traders in Marple like that and like you they do not get my business.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Duke Fame on August 28, 2012, 05:41:41 PM
Wheels, Duke,

If you are both referring to the same hardware shop as I am and I think you are then I've stopped going in it. They make me feel as if they don't want my business so I don't give it them. If you you ask a question say for example ..."where are you're 2 inch nails"? They growl at you and "point you in a direction". Unfortunately they are not the only business in Marple who don't seem to want my business, so I don't give it to them either. I'd sooner travel for a pleasant experience than stay at home for an unpleasant one. 

Some (not all of them) of the businesses in Marple don't understand simple things such as; convenient opening times  and please thank you and smile.       

Bang on Simone I feel and am made to feel exactly the same. There are a whole range of traders in Marple like that and like you they do not get my business.

Well they are always pleasant to me, maybe you are giving off egregious vibes.  Don't take this the wrong way but you can sometime wind people up a bit.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on August 28, 2012, 07:28:02 PM
Wheels, Duke,

If you are both referring to the same hardware shop as I am and I think you are then I've stopped going in it. They make me feel as if they don't want my business so I don't give it them. If you you ask a question say for example ..."where are you're 2 inch nails"? They growl at you and "point you in a direction". Unfortunately they are not the only business in Marple who don't seem to want my business, so I don't give it to them either. I'd sooner travel for a pleasant experience than stay at home for an unpleasant one. 

Some (not all of them) of the businesses in Marple don't understand simple things such as; convenient opening times  and please thank you and smile.       

Bang on Simone I feel and am made to feel exactly the same. There are a whole range of traders in Marple like that and like you they do not get my business.

Well they are always pleasant to me, maybe you are giving off egregious vibes.  Don't take this the wrong way but you can sometime wind people up a bit.

No matter what people say Duke you nearly always disagree .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: thebigshed on August 28, 2012, 08:15:16 PM
I have never felt less than welcome in our local hardware store.  I will always use it in preference to travelling to Stockport unless absolutely necessary.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on August 28, 2012, 09:42:18 PM
You could be right Duke but the people in B & Q, Homebase etc don't seem to get wound up and there's a hardware shop that I sometimes use in Manchester and you know what they don't seem to get wound up either. They come over and ask you the most outrageous things, such as..."can I help you"? When you ask them where something is they actually show me and they don't look at me as if they don't like me, all in all they seem quite pleased to see you.

Big Shed, I'm not trying to dissuade you from going into you local hardware shop, far from it if you enjoy the experience and you feel made welcome. Its just that I don't enjoy and I don't feel welcome so I won't be joining you.     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on August 28, 2012, 10:06:46 PM
You could be right Duke but the people in B & Q, Homebase etc don't seem to get wound up and there's a hardware shop that I sometimes use in Manchester and you know what they don't seem to get wound up either. They come over and ask you the most outrageous things, such as..."can I help you"? When you ask them where something is they actually show me and they don't look at me as if they don't like me, all in all they seem quite pleased to see you.

Big Shed, I'm not trying to dissuade you from going into you local hardware shop, far from it if you enjoy the experience and you feel made welcome. Its just that I don't enjoy and I don't feel welcome so I won't be joining you.     

Again your right Simoneand I wont be going either. Its not for traders to make you feel as unwelcome as many of the Marple traders do.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2012, 09:43:49 AM
Interesting post on the 'Latest News' thread, linking the arrival of Costa Coffee with the recent sad closure of Toast.  The proprietor of Toast suggests that his cafe's 'demise at the hands of Costa is a perfect, albeit small scale example of what happens when the national brands move in to a town..... Beware Marple, ASDA will come and the town will change drastically.'

But this analogy doesn't work.  For a start, the national brands are already here - the Co-op, Iceland, Boots, Superdrug.   And anyway, change is not necessarily a bad thing.  Costa Coffee will undoubtedly have provided stiff competition for other local coffee shops, and I'm sorry to lose Toast.  But by the same token, Asda is a supermarket, and the main threat it will pose is to the other supermarkets.  Would we really shed many tears over those?  
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 11, 2012, 10:50:55 AM
Interesting post on the 'Latest News' thread, linking the arrival of Costa Coffee with the recent sad closure of Toast.  The proprietor of Toast suggests that his cafe's 'demise at the hands of Costa is a perfect, albeit small scale example of what happens when the national brands move in to a town..... Beware Marple, ASDA will come and the town will change drastically.'

But this analogy doesn't work.  For a start, the national brands are already here - the Co-op, Iceland, Boots, Superdrug.   And anyway, change is not necessarily a bad thing.  Costa Coffee will undoubtedly have provided stiff competition for other local coffee shops, and I'm sorry to lose Toast.  But by the same token, Asda is a supermarket, and the main threat it will pose is to the other supermarkets.  Would we really shed many tears over those?  

Quote
6 September 2012 - A warning to us all!

Well known, and unfortunately now ex-cafe restaurant owner, Dan Stringer of Toast, is quoted as saying:

"I think Marple residents need to be VERY clear about what they want. Toast's demise at the hands of Costa is a perfect, albeit small scale example of what happens when the national brands move in to a town. That's not to say Toast didn't make mistakes, but when a business's core income stream is affected so much it's very very hard to survive."

"Beware Marple, ASDA will come and the town will change drastically."

I'm not sure if the last sentence is Dan Stringer's or not. It reads like MIA. Again there is an assertion that Marple people need to make a decision as a single group. It's like when local councillors and MPs talk about Marple being against Asda, and of how amazed they are at the unanimity of opinion in this respect. The reality of course is a lot different.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 11, 2012, 08:29:39 PM
Interesting post on the 'Latest News' thread, linking the arrival of Costa Coffee with the recent sad closure of Toast.  The proprietor of Toast suggests that his cafe's 'demise at the hands of Costa is a perfect, albeit small scale example of what happens when the national brands move in to a town..... Beware Marple, ASDA will come and the town will change drastically.'

But this analogy doesn't work.  For a start, the national brands are already here - the Co-op, Iceland, Boots, Superdrug.   And anyway, change is not necessarily a bad thing.  Costa Coffee will undoubtedly have provided stiff competition for other local coffee shops, and I'm sorry to lose Toast.  But by the same token, Asda is a supermarket, and the main threat it will pose is to the other supermarkets.  Would we really shed many tears over those?  

Agree with you on this dave (for once) did toast move from a smaller cafe to we're they are now .if it was successful there why move .Marple has got to change to many charity shops . Takeaways cafes now if it doesn't what will it be like in say six years time .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on September 12, 2012, 05:09:11 PM
As I have never been a customer of Toast or Costa in Marple I am also puzzled by the "Latest News" post. Why did Toast customers move to Costa? Was it price, quality, ambience, service, location or what? My recollection of Costa elsewhere is that they serve coffee in plastic cups which might be OK if you have to rush for a train but, otherwise, I find very unappealing. . They must have something strongly in their favour, can anyone tell me what it is?

With regard to Toxteth's comment regarding local councillors, at the recent SMBC Marple Area Committee meeting, three councillor's repledged they troth to MIA's campaign, at least one indicating that he could envisage no circumstance in which his views might change. This implies that he would take no account of any benefits to his constituents which might materialise in the next few weeks. Not really what we elect councillors for is it.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2012, 06:11:34 PM
Costa serve coffee in nice big crockery cups too - the plastic ones are just for takeaways.

I suspect its central location has been a key factor for Costa - near the buses and some well-used shops (Wilson's, Gregg's, and the Co-op of course). Derby Way is hardly the best location in Marple, although if we get a supermarket in Hibbert Lane that could well change, with more footfall around the top end of Market Street, Church Lane and Derby Way.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 12, 2012, 07:05:51 PM
Quote
although if we get a supermarket in Hibbert Lane that could well change, with more footfall around the top end of Market Street, Church Lane and Derby Way.

A supermarket on Chadwick St would increase the footfall but not one on Hibbert Lane.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: JMC on September 12, 2012, 09:51:04 PM
Why did Toast customers move to Costa? Was it price, quality, ambience, service, location or what?

I can't speak for everyone but personally find Costa very friendly and have been quite a few times. It also seems pretty trendy with teenagers and young people-all ages in fact. I went in the Toast once and to be fair maybe it was just a bad day but I didn't feel welcomed whatsoever so didn't go again. I know others who love it though (along with another who had a simelar experience to me). Costa is also pretty child friendly and easy with pushchairs etc. Location too is excellent for meeting people there-it is so central. However I am saddened to see any business close so it is a shame for Toast. Maybe it has also been affected by the economic climate although that then if Costa is successful then maybe not. Maybe it is because people want Brands? If they go to Costas wherever they are and know all the prices/coffees etc.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 13, 2012, 10:03:09 AM
A supermarket on Chadwick St would increase the footfall but not one on Hibbert Lane.

You seem very sure, Victor, but I think you need to wait and see.  At the moment, I and many others park in the Co-op, do some of our shopping there, and then walk to the other shops to do the rest of it.

In future, we are likely to park at Asda and do the same thing.  We will therefore be walking along Hibbert Lane, crossing Church Lane and then along Market Street or Derby Street and Derby Way.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 16, 2012, 02:56:19 PM
Quote
although if we get a supermarket in Hibbert Lane that could well change, with more footfall around the top end of Market Street, Church Lane and Derby Way.

A supermarket on Chadwick St would increase the footfall but not one on Hibbert Lane.

Why not .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 16, 2012, 03:51:30 PM
Because of it's location and the items likely to be marketed from the Chadwick St. supermarket. e.g. No cafe, no chemist. It's not rocket science, just plain old common sense.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on September 19, 2012, 06:49:20 PM
Just got at a leaflet for the 2nd Public Exhibition.

Main changes are:-
There will be no Cafe, Fish, Meat or Deli counters at the proposed Asda.
Traffic lights will be installed where the present roundabout is at the Hibbert Lane/Church Lane Junction.
Open space on Hibbert Lane will remain open under a covenant.

There is a new website www.marplecollegeandasda.co.uk.

Ding Ding Round 2!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: pirate Princess on September 20, 2012, 03:33:09 PM
THEir NEW WEB SITE DOESNT WORK VERY WELL!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Rachael on September 20, 2012, 04:30:48 PM
Works fine on my computer.  ..... maybe I'm a cynic,  but the way the video is worded saying that Asda is coming to Marple  would suggest its a done deal .  ::)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 20, 2012, 04:35:10 PM
Works OK for me too.  As for this:
the way the video is worded saying that Asda is coming to Marple  would suggest its a done deal .  ::)

...well, they would say that wouldn't they.   ;)
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on September 20, 2012, 04:49:44 PM
THEir NEW WEB SITE DOESNT WORK VERY WELL!

The website seems to be based heavily on Flash ... so it won't work on an iPad. It works on a PC (but it could do with Mark's web-authoring skills).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Osdog on September 20, 2012, 04:55:23 PM
Just a second ago, I got an email headed thus :-

"Enjoy the Marple Festival 21- 23 September 2012 - make sure it won’t be the last one to be held here, because the Food & Drink market  and all the independent shops are under threat."

I think this is a bit OTT - there's no reason that a food and drink festival can't be held because of an Asda surely ?  Maybe not in exactly the same format, but I'm sure it could continue.

Nor do I agree with the comment that ALL the independent shops are under threat - some certainly, but not all.. if push came to shove, and the Asda is built, then people could still enjoy the festival, and then shop there.. or in the local shops that will undoubtedly remain... 

I'm not particularly in favour of a supermarket, but I feel this was a heavy handed comment to introduce the mail with..... 

Change can be good, and can be seen as an opportunity ....
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: hollins on September 20, 2012, 05:09:04 PM
Let's have a reasoned debate. This is what the new website states:

Asda Marple will be a new neighbourhood supermarket, which is proportionate to the town and will bring more competition so that local residents can benefit from lower prices.

It will have:
- A sales area of 25,000 sq ft (nowhere near the size of the larger Asda superstores, which can be upwards of 75,000 sq ft)
- Free car parking
- Disabled parking, electric car charging points
- cycle and motor cycle parking
- A small petrol station offering low-price fuel
- Popular George clothing for children and adults
- Two entrances – one from the main car park and one facing Hibbert Lane – approximately 200m from Marple’s primary shopping area

The new store store will be smaller than the existing college buildings on the Hibbert Lane site.

The new Asda will not have a cafe, nor  a meat, fish or deli counter, as there is already good provision in the Town Centre.


Opening hours and Deliveries
- Store: 8am - 9pm, Monday to Saturday, 10am - 4pm on Sundays
- Petrol station: 7am - 10pm
- Deliveries will take place between the hours of 7am and 10pm only

Asda Marple will provide greater choice and Asda’s low prices for Marple residents, helping to retain shoppers in Marple.

The existing car park at the Hibbert Lane site will be transformed into an area of community open space.  We invited you to make suggestions for how this space should be used, and feedback from the first stage of consultation identified that the most popular option was for it to be kept as informal grassed space.  The open space will be permanently protected by a covenant, so that it can only ever be used as open space by the local community.

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 20, 2012, 05:12:32 PM
The website isn't just the video there is also questions answered in the mythbuster section...  It answers the main questions what people have been worried about... Eg Will the houses on church Lane be demolished for Road improvements the answer is NO  they go on to explain their answer... The email you got Osdog was it from MIA? you must be on their mailing list.
The food festival will be a success for many years Asda should not make any difference
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 20, 2012, 05:17:31 PM
Tina,
To run a food festival you need lots of local shops, if the shops aren't there are you proposing we will have a Walmart food festival. NO THANKS
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 20, 2012, 05:23:15 PM
Tina,
To run a food festival you need lots of local shops, if the shops aren't there are you proposing we will have a Walmart food festival. NO THANKS


The local shops will still be there, if you read the web page you will see they are not going to include: 
( quote from hollins) : The new Asda will not have a cafe, nor  a meat, fish or deli counter, as there is already good provision in the Town Centre.

So I dont see why we cant continue to have the food festival
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 20, 2012, 06:11:27 PM
Tina,
What is to stop ASDA putting in a Cafe, Deli, Fish & Meat counter after they have planning permission? Or are you reading the Walmart spin as theywon't sell, meat, deli and fish anywhere in the store?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: jethroh65 on September 20, 2012, 07:18:33 PM
Asda in Stockport doesn't have a Deli or Meat Counter, but they still sell meat & Deli!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 20, 2012, 07:37:44 PM
I was trying to point out that just because they don't have a deli counter etc it doesn't stop Walmart from selling that produce and thereby affecting the local stores, and there is nothing stopping them putting in a cafe etc once they have planning permission. I wish people would read postings correctly!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on September 20, 2012, 09:08:35 PM
We are all speculating here as if we have an influence on whether Asda comes to town or not when of course we don't. What difference does it make whether they sell fish or not?

The scheme that Asda are proposing is becoming increasingly difficult to resist as each day goes by, as of course it was bound to be. There is even a suggestion that some of the local Councillors are now finding the proposal attractive. SMBC have no weapon to resist other than to say ..."It's not in the town centre"...That's absolutely all they've got together with some flimsies connected to traffic which might or might not happen. Remember it is not just about building an Asda it is also about saving and regenerating a College at least that is the way it is being presented. When Paul Lawrence said a year ago that Asda would not get planning permission, the "enabling" application was not on the horizon...well now it is. Ask him now and see how his resolve against it is.  Don't be surprised if SMBC grant permission at the first go and don't be surprised if they don't, that the Highways & Planning Committee do. If both of them don't then the Inspectors surely will in the current planning climate.   

Maybe we should be asking our Councillors to unite and get what they can for Marple out of Asda whilst the going is good instead of keep pressurising half of them to tell lies and the other half to stay silent just to cover their own political hides.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Henry_ on September 20, 2012, 10:29:43 PM
Every single independent shop in Whaley Bridge closed of course when Tesco move in.

Except they didn't did they? Whaley has far less vacant units than Marple.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on September 20, 2012, 11:02:37 PM
Every single independent shop in Whaley Bridge closed of course when Tesco move in.

Except they didn't did they? Whaley has far less vacant units than Marple.

Indeed. The same goes for Glossop - whilst not every unit is occupied, it's far from being a ghost town.

This is pretty much what I predicted would happen. MIA built the hype up so much, that pretty much any proposal from ASDA was going to look reasonable compared to the MIA worst case scenarios.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Osdog on September 21, 2012, 03:23:10 PM
Yes I'm on the MIA mailing list.. and in the first instance I was totally anti-supermarket.  After a while though I thought that they would not be able to build on the whole of the college site - I did state in a post somewhere on this site a long time ago, that of the whole site, they could only build on half of it, and of that half, they could only build on roughly half of that - so as to allow for parking and access.  The rest of the land as rightly pointed out is for community use.  What ASDA now propose is nothing different to what it would have been at the outset.

I suppose at this point we have no reason to doubt ASDA when they say there will not be a deli, or fish counter etc..... but I'm sure they will still sell meats, and fish - but probably pre-prepared. I'm even a little bit sad there won't be a cafe - to maybe compete with Costa !!!!

I still see no reason that the food festival could not continue - maybe in a slightly different format, but still go ahead. 

In the end analysis there's no point in grumbling along, protest if you will, (and I did) but in the same breath, if ASDA do open in Marple, I suspect I will be sneaking along there to do my weekly shop.

Yes I'm lazy - yes I want things in the same place - and yes I want a quality product.  I'm sure that in most cases a supermarket would be more than adequate.

I'm equally sure that Marple will not become a ghost town with tumbleweed blowing along Market Street - it hasn't in Whaley, why should it here?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 23, 2012, 02:35:49 PM
I am very disturbed by the e-mail you recieved in the name of Marple in action. MIA have kept out of the Chadwick St issue. The mission was originally to prevent a supermarket on Hibbert Lane. Now people are being directed to the Stockport . Gov website regarding Chadwick St as an alternative. Are some, or a member saying it is acceptable to disrupt the residents of Chadwick St and surrounding roads? Just like the homes around the proposed Asda site, The homes on Chadwick St will also be affected by a supermarket in front of their homes, falling property prices, increased traffic and the general disruption that a supermarket brings. stockport Council are selling the Chadwick St site, it is within the district centre and there is sadly, very little we can do about it. I think we have a headless chicken running amok!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on September 23, 2012, 05:04:51 PM
I am very disturbed by the e-mail you recieved in the name of Marple in action. MIA have kept out of the Chadwick St issue. The mission was originally to prevent a supermarket on Hibbert Lane. Now people are being directed to the Stockport . Gov website regarding Chadwick St as an alternative. Are some, or a member saying it is acceptable to disrupt the residents of Chadwick St and surrounding roads? Just like the homes around the proposed Asda site, The homes on Chadwick St will also be affected by a supermarket in front of their homes, falling property prices, increased traffic and the general disruption that a supermarket brings. stockport Council are selling the Chadwick St site, it is within the district centre and there is sadly, very little we can do about it. I think we have a headless chicken running amok!

I'm not sure why MIA have not entered the debate re: Chadwick Street. I would be interested in their views, as for me, its potentially a worse site for a food-store than Hibbert Lane. Served by cramped streets with no visibility at junctions, removing much needed general parking in the local centre, very close to residential properties and right on the door-step of all our 'specialist' shops, therefore providing immediate competition. If it has been sold to a 'qauilty' supermarket brand it could be really bad news......

I've always been worried that the 'say no to Hibbert Lane' might precipitate a knee jerk reaction from the Council to push Chadwick Street forward. Given that the Council are going / have sold the site with food retail as an option, they can hardly then fight any subsequent application. Does this mean out of the frying pan, into the fire for Marple?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 23, 2012, 07:19:35 PM
We are all speculating here as if we have an influence on whether Asda comes to town or not when of course we don't. What difference does it make whether they sell fish or not?

The scheme that Asda are proposing is becoming increasingly difficult to resist as each day goes by, as of course it was bound to be. There is even a suggestion that some of the local Councillors are now finding the proposal attractive. SMBC have no weapon to resist other than to say ..."It's not in the town centre"...That's absolutely all they've got together with some flimsies connected to traffic which might or might not happen. Remember it is not just about building an Asda it is also about saving and regenerating a College at least that is the way it is being presented. When Paul Lawrence said a year ago that Asda would not get planning permission, the "enabling" application was not on the horizon...well now it is. Ask him now and see how his resolve against it is.  Don't be surprised if SMBC grant permission at the first go and don't be surprised if they don't, that the Highways & Planning Committee do. If both of them don't then the Inspectors surely will in the current planning climate.   

Maybe we should be asking our Councillors to unite and get what they can for Marple out of Asda whilst the going is good instead of keep pressurising half of them to tell lies and the other half to stay silent just to cover their own political hides.   

Get asda to upgrade the swimming baths .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Harry on September 23, 2012, 07:22:59 PM
I've heard that the Chadwick St. site is going to be awarded to a far from 'quality' supermarket. I sincerely hope that this is incorrect, but I fear it may be.

This should be far more worrying to our local shops than an Asda would be.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 23, 2012, 07:39:16 PM
Quote
removing much needed general parking in the local centre,
I am lead to believe that there will be no loss of car parking spaces on the Chadwick St site. The supermarket will be cut into the site (which is on a slope and the car park will continue onto the roof of new building. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, it will be a single storey building.
As to
Quote
to a far from 'quality' supermarket
don't be worried Harry Walmart have already stated that they are not interested in the site. We will not know which supermarket it is until after the application receives planning permission, as the developer will only then go and see which supermarket is prepared to bid the highest.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bluezorro on September 23, 2012, 08:53:13 PM
Aldi on chadwick street would be good for marple and also would be a massive margin busting kick in the teeth for a potential asda.
Lets all get behind chadwick stsuper market  whoever it is
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Miss C on September 23, 2012, 09:06:44 PM
It's time for a quality supermarket to invest in the area. Why are all the lower end supermarkets getting the publicity? I'm not convinced Asda, Aldi, Co-op will suit a significant proportion of the community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Bluezorro on September 23, 2012, 09:11:12 PM
You can get waitrose delivered to your door!
Use that.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on September 23, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
Quote
removing much needed general parking in the local centre,
I am lead to believe that there will be no loss of car parking spaces on the Chadwick St site. The supermarket will be cut into the site (which is on a slope and the car park will continue onto the roof of new building. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, it will be a single storey building.

But Victor, the sheer fact that lots of people will be using the car park to visit the new store will potentially reduce the number of spaces on offer to the rest of the Town Centre. Should the car park be on the roof of the store, that also makes those spaces much less attractive for general parking.

Apart from being in the 'town centre' (except that in reality the town centre turns it's back on the site), I really don't see any great advantages to Chadwick Street. HGV servicing for one thing, will not be pretty - although if its to be an Aldi, that would normally be via the car park.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on September 24, 2012, 08:02:41 AM
The Chadwick Street Site was brought into the equation by local Councillors who were opposed to the  Hibbert Lane Development even before they knew any details other than it was ..."probably going to be a supermarket". It was considered that a supermarket on Chadwick St (albeit a comparitively small one) would;

a) Bring footfall into the town centre that local traders would benefit from.

b) Not cause as much traffic convergence on Marple as the Hibbert lane development.

c) Weaken the argument about a town the size of Marple being inadequately served by a supermarket provision.


However it should be remembered that all this was put in motion last year before Asda had revealed their plans or even their identity. In fact it was established that it was Tesco if my recall is correct.

The situation will be much different now that Asda have declared their enabling plan. As I have previously said it was at first ...Are you against the ASDA on Hibbert Lane? Now it is are you for or against the Marple College/ASDA development ? This is is an entirely different thing.

On a recent development ASDA made a new presentation to local Councillors last week and offered them even further assurances about the Hibbert lane development. My information is that local Councillors now face the conundrum of bringing about CAMSFC'S plans without seeming to do a "u turn" in public. Although if you think about this it is quite easy to solve.

In relation to the existing parking on Chadwick Street it was resolved at a previous Area Committee (minuted in the proposal) that a key aspect of any proposal would be to retain the existing number of parking spaces. I park there now and again and when I do it always seems to be nearly empty...maybe I go at the wrong times.

Incidentally, heard that Miss Marple had been "sacked" from MIA for a variety of reasons. Thought that she'd been silent of late, are you out there Miss M ?   


 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on September 24, 2012, 08:28:18 AM
It's time for a quality supermarket to invest in the area. Why are all the lower end supermarkets getting the publicity? I'm not convinced Asda, Aldi, Co-op will suit a significant proportion of the community.

As, has been said before, you will have no say in it whatsoever. You will have to accept what you are given whether it be Aldi or Waitrose or not even asupermarket at all. There are at least ten other options for the site all legitimate and just as much a part of SMBC's plan. Retail was only the "preferred option"... at that time.     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 24, 2012, 08:34:35 AM
Quote
The situation will be much different now that Asda have declared their enabling plan. As I have previously said it was at first ...Are you against the ASDA on Hibbert Lane? Now it is are you for or against the Marple College/ASDA development ? This is is an entirely different thing.
There are two reasons that the development at Hibbert Lane and Buxton Kane have been linked.

1 The college want to decrease the amount of Green Space on Buxton Lane, there cannot be any overall reduction in Green Space so at the Hibbert Lane site the plans show an increase in Green Space.

2 ASDA/Walmart would very much like to change the focus of their planning application.

There is no guarantee anywhere that if the planning application is approved, that the college can't just collect the money and then bugger off to Cheadle.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on September 24, 2012, 09:08:41 AM
You're quite right Victor there are no "guarantees".

It is though my understanding that Asda have stated that they will refurbish the College according to plan and to completion, using their own established contractors, before they even start work on building the supermarket.

Linking the two sites is a bit more than changing "focus" it is an entirely different presentation whatsoever. There will be many who are against a stand alone greedy supermarket but who would accept it as a reasonable price to pay for a brand new College secured to Marple for the forseeable future with all the benefits that this brings to Marple. I may be wrong ( I have been thousands of times before ) but this is something that SMBC is going to find very difficult to reject.

It's an entirely different ball game than the one that precipitated the meeting in the park or the marches last summer. Councils' can't just turn things down without good reason and imho good reason is diminishing as each day goes by. I really think that you have to accept the reality now. Which is that Asda is very probably coming to town. I can't really see what can be done to realistically oppose the scheme.

We can talk of course....
       
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 24, 2012, 10:29:14 AM
Miss Marple
Hero Member

Posts: 1398



  Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
« Reply #170 on: July 18, 2011, 01:03:49 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A local action group has now been formed surprisingly enough called  ' MARPLE IN ACTION '. The contact details will be circulated later this week.  The group comprises of concerned local residents who want to find out what the land at the college is being sold for and to who, and most importantly we want all local residents who will be effected by any development to know  that changes are coming no matter who is purchasing the college.   The local press are going to work alongside ' MARPLE IN ACTION'. And hopefully run  a story next week, what's happening at Stepping hill  Hospital is hot news this week.   

How can Miss Marple be sacked? You can see above MIA was started by her.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 24, 2012, 10:33:55 AM
There is no guarantee anywhere that if the planning application is approved, that the college can't just collect the money and then bugger off to Cheadle.

No guarantee, but as I have pointed out before on this forum this is so unlikely that it can safely be discounted.  This is because closure of its entire Marple operation would lead to an immediate and significant reduction in the college's student numbers, and therefore income.  In theory, of course, Marple students could travel to Cheadle - but many (probably most) simply won't.  They will vote with their feet and go to Aquinas (if they can get in), or Stockport College, or New Mills School, or get on the train and go in to Manchester.

Councils' can't just turn things down without good reason and imho good reason is diminishing as each day goes by..... I can't really see what can be done to realistically oppose the scheme.
I wish you were right, Simone, but we can't be so sure.  AFAIK the Hibbert Lane site remains zoned for residential use, not retail, and that must surely count as a 'good reason'.  And as for this:  

There will be many who are against a stand alone greedy supermarket but who would accept it as a reasonable price to pay for a brand new College secured to Marple for the forseeable future with all the benefits that this brings to Marple.....this is something that SMBC is going to find very difficult to reject.

That may be so - once again, I would like to think so - but I see no evidence of that point of view being held by any of our councillors or by our MP. I have had some communication with some of them on this subject, and I have been quite shocked by their 'couldn't care less' position on the college's plans to improve its facilities for the benefit of their constituents.  For what it's worth, I suspect that this is not so much because they don't care about education, but more because they have been spineless, and cowed by the noisy campaign waged by MIA and its supporters.  

Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 24, 2012, 11:46:46 AM
Quote
Linking the two sites is a bit more than changing "focus" it is an entirely different presentation whatsoever. There will be many who are against a stand alone greedy supermarket but who would accept it as a reasonable price to pay for a brand new College secured to Marple for the forseeable future with all the benefits that this brings to Marple. I may be wrong ( I have been thousands of times before ) but this is something that SMBC is going to find very difficult to reject.

Sorry Simone but I beg to differ, the planning application can only be judged on planning grounds alone. The Supermarket is outside the designated District Centre. There is available space within the District Centre. The Council will have to change the designated District Centre to allow the Supermarket to be built.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on September 24, 2012, 01:42:17 PM
Quote
Linking the two sites is a bit more than changing "focus" it is an entirely different presentation whatsoever. There will be many who are against a stand alone greedy supermarket but who would accept it as a reasonable price to pay for a brand new College secured to Marple for the forseeable future with all the benefits that this brings to Marple. I may be wrong ( I have been thousands of times before ) but this is something that SMBC is going to find very difficult to reject.

Sorry Simone but I beg to differ, the planning application can only be judged on planning grounds alone. The Supermarket is outside the designated District Centre. There is available space within the District Centre. The Council will have to change the designated District Centre to allow the Supermarket to be built.

That is indeed the case
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on September 24, 2012, 05:35:23 PM
Quote
Linking the two sites is a bit more than changing "focus" it is an entirely different presentation whatsoever. There will be many who are against a stand alone greedy supermarket but who would accept it as a reasonable price to pay for a brand new College secured to Marple for the forseeable future with all the benefits that this brings to Marple. I may be wrong ( I have been thousands of times before ) but this is something that SMBC is going to find very difficult to reject.

Sorry Simone but I beg to differ, the planning application can only be judged on planning grounds alone. The Supermarket is outside the designated District Centre. There is available space within the District Centre. The Council will have to change the designated District Centre to allow the Supermarket to be built.

That is indeed the case

I wish I had the confidence in the integrity of SMBC systems that you obviously have Victor and Wheels - but I don't. What I do have confidence in is the guile and trickery of our local politicians. If they want this scheme they will have it. It doesn't matter what they say in public. It's what they do in the confines of the Town Hall that counts. You just watch this space as soon as the planning application goes in a different set of noises will begin to emit from SMBC.   
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on September 24, 2012, 05:55:52 PM
Quote
Linking the two sites is a bit more than changing "focus" it is an entirely different presentation whatsoever. There will be many who are against a stand alone greedy supermarket but who would accept it as a reasonable price to pay for a brand new College secured to Marple for the forseeable future with all the benefits that this brings to Marple. I may be wrong ( I have been thousands of times before ) but this is something that SMBC is going to find very difficult to reject.

Sorry Simone but I beg to differ, the planning application can only be judged on planning grounds alone. The Supermarket is outside the designated District Centre. There is available space within the District Centre. The Council will have to change the designated District Centre to allow the Supermarket to be built.


That is indeed the case

I wish I had the confidence in the integrity of SMBC systems that you obviously have Victor and Wheels - but I don't. What I do have confidence in is the guile and trickery of our local politicians. If they want this scheme they will have it. It doesn't matter what they say in public. It's what they do in the confines of the Town Hall that counts. You just watch this space as soon as the planning application goes in a different set of noises will begin to emit from SMBC.    
On what basis do you question the integrity of the local authority Simone. It seems to me we have a well run local authority that consistantly scores highly on various measures whenever they are assessed.  Its not good enough to question the authority without providing evidence to back up your claims.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: rsh on September 24, 2012, 07:17:34 PM
Re: Chadwick Street as a possible Aldi

Planning permission has been submitted for an Aldi on the site of Offerton precinct (see DC/050745 or here (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=186115)), so with the Romiley and Hazel Grove stores surely this rules out another in Marple? A mini Waitrose would be far better for the town centre anyway, especially in terms of bringing in shoppers likely to support locally-owned shops.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: wheels on September 24, 2012, 08:25:03 PM
Re: Chadwick Street as a possible Aldi

Planning permission has been submitted for an Aldi on the site of Offerton precinct (see DC/050745 or here (http://interactive.stockport.gov.uk/edrms/onlinemvm/getimage.asp?DocumentNumber=186115)), so with the Romiley and Hazel Grove stores surely this rules out another in Marple? A mini Waitrose would be far better for the town centre anyway, especially in terms of bringing in shoppers likely to support locally-owned shops.

Can only hope your wrong Waitrose seems to me to be overpriced and providing poor value for money and certainly of little appeal to the majority of Marple residents
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Tricky on September 24, 2012, 08:41:02 PM


Waitrose seems to me to be overpriced and providing poor value for money and certainly of little appeal to the majority of Marple residents

I would rather have a Waitrose or M&S foodstore than an Aldi.

How can you back up your claim Wheels?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 24, 2012, 09:11:05 PM


Waitrose seems to me to be overpriced and providing poor value for money and certainly of little appeal to the majority of Marple residents

I would rather have a Waitrose or M&S foodstore than an Aldi.

How can you back up your claim Wheels?

Doesn't matter as long as Asda come to town .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 25, 2012, 08:26:18 AM
Quote
Planning permission has been submitted for an Aldi on the site of Offerton precinct (see DC/050745 or here), so with the Romiley and Hazel Grove stores surely this rules out another in Marple?

Aldi's business plan is a lot different to the major British Supermarket's. In Germany they don't have any large supermarket's (over 20,000 sq ft) and each supermarket is just built to cater for it's own locality. So an Aldi in Offerton, Romiley, Hazel Grove and MARPLE is perfectly feasible.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on September 25, 2012, 10:46:58 AM
The Council will have to change the designated District Centre to allow the Supermarket to be built.

Do they actually have to? There are plenty of business outside the District Centre.

But if they do, is it really that hard?

The District Centre is an arbitrary line drawn around the existing businesses. Extending it only involves adding on a few hundred metres (it's not as if the proposed supermarket is in hawk green or rose hill).
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Victor M on September 25, 2012, 11:47:50 AM
Quote
Do they actually have to? There are plenty of business outside the District Centre.

But if they do, is it really that hard?

The District Centre is an arbitrary line drawn around the existing businesses. Extending it only involves adding on a few hundred metres (it's not as if the proposed supermarket is in hawk green or rose hill).

Everything is decided in terms of planning, it doesn't matter if it's 300 m from the District Shopping or 3 miles. Also in Stockport's Development plan the land is designated as Housing. In order for the development to go ahead the District Centre would have to be redrawn and the Development plan altered. Both actions could result in an appeal being lodged.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 25, 2012, 12:55:56 PM
it doesn't matter if it's 300 m from the District Shopping or 3 miles.

Oh yes it does.  'Edge of town' developments (which Hibbert Lane would be, I think) are favoured over 'out of town' developments.  See, for example, http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/general/news/stories/2010/dec2010/9dec2010/091210_5
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sgk on September 25, 2012, 07:26:02 PM
it doesn't matter if it's 300 m from the District Shopping or 3 miles.

Oh yes it does.  'Edge of town' developments (which Hibbert Lane would be, I think) are favoured over 'out of town' developments.  See, for example, http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/general/news/stories/2010/dec2010/9dec2010/091210_5

I figured Hibbert Lane was an "out of town" development, with there being a residential area between it and the town centre.

However, if you mean Chadwick Street, then perhaps that's more qualified as "edge of town", with it having retail premises on one side and residential on the other.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 25, 2012, 07:45:49 PM
No, I meant Hibbert lane.  Googling around, I have found this definition of an 'edge of centre' development:

Edge of Centre. As defined in PPS4 - “For retail purposes, a location that is well
connected to and within easy walking distance (ie. up to 300 metres) of the primary
shopping area. For all other main town centre uses, this is likely to be within 300 metres of
a town centre boundary. In determining whether a site falls within the definition of edge-ofcentre,
account should be taken of local circumstances. For example, local topography
will affect pedestrians’ perceptions of easy walking distance from the centre. Other
considerations include barriers, such as crossing major roads and car parks, the
attractiveness and perceived safety of the route and the strength of attraction and size of
the town centre. A site will not be well connected to a centre where it is physically
separated from it by a barrier such as a major road, railway line or river and there is no
existing or proposed pedestrian route which provides safe and convenient access to the
centre.”


PPS4 is the Government's Planning Policy Statement no 4.

I think Chadwick Street would be regarded as being in the centre.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on September 25, 2012, 07:59:48 PM
ASDA believe that within 300m is 'edge of centre' and that Hibbert Lane meets this criteria (see the other thread and the FOI links started by Neil Corrie). I have some sympathy with such a designation.

SMBC beg to differ.

This will be a key battleground in any planning debate / appeal.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 25, 2012, 09:55:06 PM
Meanwhile, on the 'Latest News' thread, we are told that 'with the "I LOVE MARPLE" campaign, Marple in Action are determined to keep up the fight.'

I went to the excellent Food Fair last weekend, and when I got home, sporting an 'I Love Marple' sticker on my jumper, I got a right telling off from Mrs Dave.   'How dare you', she said - 'coming home wearing that sticker supporting those people who are against the new supermarket'.  So does saying 'I Love Marple' now mean that you are against the supermarket?   ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 25, 2012, 10:39:31 PM
Meanwhile, on the 'Latest News' thread, we are told that 'with the "I LOVE MARPLE" campaign, Marple in Action are determined to keep up the fight.'

I went to the excellent Food Fair last weekend, and when I got home, sporting an 'I Love Marple' sticker on my jumper, I got a right telling off from Mrs Dave.   'How dare you', she said - 'coming home wearing that sticker supporting those people who are against the new supermarket'.  So does saying 'I Love Marple' now mean that you are against the supermarket?   ???

I love Marple, but does that mean I can't because I want Asda to come to Marple? More speculation being wrote again I see about size, opening hours etc etc......
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: simonesaffron on September 25, 2012, 11:24:23 PM
ASDA believe that within 300m is 'edge of centre' and that Hibbert Lane meets this criteria (see the other thread and the FOI links started by Neil Corrie). I have some sympathy with such a designation.

SMBC beg to differ.

This will be a key battleground in any planning debate / appeal.

Belly, you know about planning and presumably you know about local government.

So here's a question if you would be so kind to consider. I accept what you say about "edge of centre" battleground. I also belive that traffic management will be just as big an issue. However forget the planning pedantics for a minute. If the politicians (despite what some of them have said in public) actually want the Asda/CAMSFC scheme, even if planners have right on their side, will they be strong enough to resist the the political pressure ?     
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2012, 08:18:53 AM
Simone writes 'If the politicians (despite what some of them have said in public) actually want the Asda/CAMSFC scheme...', but that is a very big 'if'. AFAIK there is no local councillor who supports the camsfc/Asda scheme.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on September 26, 2012, 08:40:02 AM
Given the importance to ASDA of the prompt and efficient completion of the college project I would have thought it possible that, not only would they project manage the construction, but they might also manage the finance by paying for the work directly rather than passing the funds to the college.
I am a little puzzled by “Latest News” where the first 1000 signatures to the online petition was celebrated on 17th August 2011 but there was no celebration on the 17th August 2012 of the equally amazing news that the following 12 months had added another 354 signatures!
Also no reference to the announcement made at the last Local Area Meeting that Andrew Stunnell has arranged for the paper petition to be presented on the steps of 10 Downing Street. This is evidently so important that three of our councilors have expressed a wish to increase the publicity by travelling to London to attend this event and yet MIA do not consider it worth a mention.
While on the subject of councilors, the same three have expressed their continuing objection to the proposals for the development of Hibbert Lane and the renewal of our college. They have also made it clear that there is little or no possibility of their changing their minds. This implies that they are  prepared to take no account of any benefits to their electorate which might subsequently come to light.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: marpleexile on September 26, 2012, 10:08:25 AM
it doesn't matter if it's 300 m from the District Shopping or 3 miles.

Oh yes it does.  'Edge of town' developments (which Hibbert Lane would be, I think) are favoured over 'out of town' developments.  See, for example, http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/general/news/stories/2010/dec2010/9dec2010/091210_5

I figured Hibbert Lane was an "out of town" development, with there being a residential area between it and the town centre.

However, if you mean Chadwick Street, then perhaps that's more qualified as "edge of town", with it having retail premises on one side and residential on the other.

It's no wonder that planning rules are so hard to understand for the lay person.

Common sense would suggest that in the context of Marple, an edge of town development would be, for example in Hawk Green, on the edge of the "town", and that an out of town development would be situated half way down Windlehurst Road, ie completely out of "town".

I'm sure you're technically correct, but it staggers me that a development 300m from centre of Marple would be considered even edge of town, never mind out of town.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Belly on September 26, 2012, 02:43:02 PM
ASDA believe that within 300m is 'edge of centre' and that Hibbert Lane meets this criteria (see the other thread and the FOI links started by Neil Corrie). I have some sympathy with such a designation.

SMBC beg to differ.

This will be a key battleground in any planning debate / appeal.

Belly, you know about planning and presumably you know about local government.

So here's a question if you would be so kind to consider. I accept what you say about "edge of centre" battleground. I also belive that traffic management will be just as big an issue. However forget the planning pedantics for a minute. If the politicians (despite what some of them have said in public) actually want the Asda/CAMSFC scheme, even if planners have right on their side, will they be strong enough to resist the the political pressure ?    

Members ultimately have the final say. The planners are simply 'advisors'.

I've worked on plenty of schemes where we have been 100% correct in planning and it's been 'bounced' by members on little more than a whim, completely against Council Planners advice. But in such cases, the project would then typicaly be taken to appeal by the applicant and the Council would almost certainly lose - in extreme cases, if the Council members really had no planning case at all in refusing an application, the applicant would gets their costs back as well (paid for by the Council)!

A costs award won't happen in this case, as the planning case is quite finely balanced, but given the original protestations by the members prior to the application going in, it would appear a refusal and an appeal are almost inevitable. The result of the appeal, well who knows?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2012, 03:37:24 PM
Given the importance to ASDA of the prompt and efficient completion of the college project I would have thought it possible that, not only would they project manage the construction, but they might also manage the finance by paying for the work directly rather than passing the funds to the college.

There is not the slightest chance of it happening like that - much too risky, and the college's funding body, their auditors and their legal advisers would simply not allow it.

While on the subject of councilors, the same three have expressed their continuing objection to the proposals for the development of Hibbert Lane and the renewal of our college. They have also made it clear that there is little or no possibility of their changing their minds. This implies that they are  prepared to take no account of any benefits to their electorate which might subsequently come to light.

Indeed.  But the 'benefits to the electorate' have been known from the outset.   These councillors have always been well aware that the sale to a supermarket was necessary in order for the college to have sufficient capital to fund their development plan.  They didn't care then, so why should they suddenly care now? 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 26, 2012, 04:04:31 PM
Given the importance to ASDA of the prompt and efficient completion of the college project I would have thought it possible that, not only would they project manage the construction, but they might also manage the finance by paying for the work directly rather than passing the funds to the college.
I am a little puzzled by “Latest News” where the first 1000 signatures to the online petition was celebrated on 17th August 2011 but there was no celebration on the 17th August 2012 of the equally amazing news that the following 12 months had added another 354 signatures!
Also no reference to the announcement made at the last Local Area Meeting that Andrew Stunnell has arranged for the paper petition to be presented on the steps of 10 Downing Street. This is evidently so important that three of our councilors have expressed a wish to increase the publicity by travelling to London to attend this event and yet MIA do not consider it worth a mention.
While on the subject of councilors, the same three have expressed their continuing objection to the proposals for the development of Hibbert Lane and the renewal of our college. They have also made it clear that there is little or no possibility of their changing their minds. This implies that they are  prepared to take no account of any benefits to their electorate which might subsequently come to light.

I think the online petition was mentioned last year as 1000 signatures were gained very quickly. Thousands have since signed the paper petition. As for the paper petition going to Downing Street, I think it has been hijacked!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 26, 2012, 06:16:14 PM

Quote
As for the paper petition going to Downing Street, I think it has been hijacked!

Please can you explain
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on September 26, 2012, 07:07:25 PM

Quote
As for the paper petition going to Downing Street, I think it has been hijacked!

Please can you explain


Yes please explain .what you mean hijacked .
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: alstan on September 26, 2012, 08:38:49 PM
I take your point with regard to funding Dave but Asda would have an interest in ensuring that the proceeds of the sale are spent on the rebuilding of Buxton Lane and would be equally reluctant to lose control of the funds until the work is completed.  Indeed they can hardly do so as they presumably cannot gain access to Hibbert Lane until the students move out into the newly built Buxton Lane premises. The entitlement of the college to the proceeds of the sale would probably arise at the same time as title in the Hibbert Lane site passed  and I would have thought that it would be possible to devise a contract whereby the proceeds of the sale are the construction by Asda of a new building on the Buxton Lane site on completion of which title in the Hibbert Lane site would pass to Asda.  Anyway I am only speculating and too much time has been wasted on that already.

With regard to the attitude of councilors, at the time their inflexibility was last made clear there was still a possibility of further benefits arising as a result of the consultations which were taking place. For example Asda might have been prepared to make some investment in the community space although it now appears that, according to them, this would not have been in accordance with the wishes of the community.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 26, 2012, 08:43:50 PM

Quote
As for the paper petition going to Downing Street, I think it has been hijacked!

Please can you explain

Please can you explain this?

Taken from Facebook

Yes to Asda on Hibbert Lane Marple
about an hour ago
HOT OFF THE PRESS
Please be free to laugh out loud . MIA have in effect sacked Miss Marple, she is no longer allowed to speak on behalf of MIA and all other MIA officers wishing to make a statement have to have their words counter-signed by another officer!
So sad to hear MIA don't trust each other. And they want the people of Marple to trust them now ???
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 26, 2012, 08:47:00 PM

Quote
As for the paper petition going to Downing Street, I think it has been hijacked!

Please can you explain

Please can you explain this?

Taken from Facebook

Yes to Asda on Hibbert Lane Marple
about an hour ago
HOT OFF THE PRESS
Please be free to laugh out loud . MIA have in effect sacked Miss Marple, she is no longer allowed to speak on behalf of MIA and all other MIA officers wishing to make a statement have to have their words counter-signed by another officer!
So sad to hear MIA don't trust each other. And they want the people of Marple to trust them now ???


That is not answering the question mrs O  you wrote your post at 4:04 today about the petition being hijacked. The person on the yes page is talking about MM, is that why its been hijacked because MM has been sacked from MIA?
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 26, 2012, 09:45:30 PM
I just haven't heard the destination of the petition mentioned for a while, Miss Marple has not been sacked and is very active in MIA. I hope your pal Mr Braggins has not given you this false information, Though I doubt he gives much thought to any of your campaign. You are at the end of the day helping to bolster his extortionate salary. You mean nothing to him. He certainly will not be mentioning you to his friends while sharing a meal with them at the Ivy. Do you know why John Braggins (Asda millionaire spin doctor) has asked MM to be a friend on Facebook? Unless he wants her to do some moonlighting!
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: tina on September 26, 2012, 09:51:53 PM
I just haven't heard the destination of the petition mentioned for a while, Miss Marple has not been sacked and is very active in MIA. I hope your pal Mr Braggins has not given you this false information, Though I doubt he gives much thought to any of your campaign. You are at the end of the day helping to bolster his extortionate salary. You mean nothing to him. He certainly will not be mentioning you to his friends while sharing a meal with them at the Ivy. Do you know why John Braggins (Asda millionaire spin doctor) has asked MM to be a friend on Facebook? Unless he wants her to do some moonlighting!

I have no idea Mrs O
More speculation I see. 
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on September 26, 2012, 11:29:22 PM
Simone writes 'If the politicians (despite what some of them have said in public) actually want the Asda/CAMSFC scheme...', but that is a very big 'if'. AFAIK there is no local councillor who supports the camsfc/Asda scheme.
Look at their body language Dave, There are three of them.They don't like being challenged. One of them think they are royalty, The other a celebrity and the other thinks the moon is made of cheese.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: sooty2 on November 27, 2012, 04:29:15 PM
For those that don't already know ,Asda have submitted their plans last Friday.
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on November 27, 2012, 08:53:46 PM
I just haven't heard the destination of the petition mentioned for a while, Miss Marple has not been sacked and is very active in MIA. I hope your pal Mr Braggins has not given you this false information, Though I doubt he gives much thought to any of your campaign. You are at the end of the day helping to bolster his extortionate salary. You mean nothing to him. He certainly will not be mentioning you to his friends while sharing a meal with them at the Ivy. Do you know why John Braggins (Asda millionaire spin doctor) has asked MM to be a friend on Facebook? Unless he wants her to do some moonlighting!
You've been reading to many comics again .......
Title: Re: Tesco / ASDA !!!
Post by: amazon on November 27, 2012, 08:55:26 PM
I just haven't heard the destination of the petition mentioned for a while, Miss Marple has not been sacked and is very active in MIA. I hope your pal Mr Braggins has not given you this false information, Though I doubt he gives much thought to any of your campaign. You are at the end of the day helping to bolster his extortionate salary. You mean nothing to him. He certainly will not be mentioning you to his friends while sharing a meal with them at the Ivy. Do you know why John Braggins (Asda millionaire spin doctor) has asked MM to be a friend on Facebook? Unless he wants her to do some moonlighting!

Petition in the blue bin I've heard . Only one blue bin .